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View Full Version : Man, I just can't help it. I'm just feeling really bad for Gunther right now...


DaWolf
01-04-2001, 08:26 PM
"Later in the day, Cunningham's wife, Rene, came to the door of their home -- adorned with a Chiefs logo on the garage and a recyclable Christmas tree on the lawn -- and said the coach had "nothing to say" right now."

I just can't help it. I've been very vocal in my belief that we need a coaching change, but man, I really do like Gun. The guy has put his heart and soul into this organization, he wanted to make it work for us, the fans. I wanterd him to succeed more than I've ever wanted any coach to succeed in my life. He was the underdog. He was the guy who never got the chance and finally someone gave him an opportunity, and he worked his *** off to make it work. Sure he was wacky and he did some things incorrectly and he chose to surround himself with the worst coaching staff in the NFL, and that was his downfall. I probably should be cold hearted as a fan, the only thing that should matter to me is winning. But dammit, I've got a soft place in my heart for Gun. Maybe I've gone insane, but I can't help it. When Marty left, I was a bit disappointed but yet relieved. Now that Gun is out, I am excited yet in a way saddened. I am truly sorry that it did not work out for Gunther here. He tried, it wasn't good enough, he ran out of time. But I just want to take the time and thank Gunther for the two years of tireless service he put in with the Chiefs. If he goes to a division rival, may he fail miserably. But I personally wish him and his family the best of luck...

Cannibal
01-04-2001, 08:28 PM
No doubt that he is being treated horribly right now and I too feel sorry for him.

It should have been a clean break a day or two after the loss to Atlanta. Whitlock is right about Peterson on this one, he's being totally classless in the way he's treating Gunther.

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http://www.geocities.com/cannibal1970/player7475.jpg

Damn man! I'm hungry... anybody got a doughnut up in this mutha fugga? I won't jump offsides if ya gimme one bidge!

[This message has been edited by Cannibal (edited 01-04-2001).]

Frazod
01-04-2001, 08:33 PM
Cannibal, you don't dissapoint. :D

Let's see how many people you offend with this one.

Seriously, guys, I cannot believe that Carl left Gun in the dark on this one. Just because we haven't heard anything, doesn't mean he hasn't.

I too feel bad for Gun. He seems like a great guy, and certainly busted his a$$. But he FAILED. The plug has been pulled, and I'm glad.

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Frazod

Have I ever mentioned that I hate Denver?
http://www.geocities.com/cannibal1970/devil.gif

Otter
01-04-2001, 08:35 PM
Gunther Remains Head Coach in Name Only

Somewhere Kimble, Mike Cloud, T-Rich and Donnell are drinking andlaughing thier asses off.

morphius
01-04-2001, 08:36 PM
Dawolf - Pretty much sums up my feelings. I really like the guy, but why he had to keep himself surrounded by the stooges is beyond me. I hope that he ends up anywhere other then the AFC West, and wish him the best after the pain of coaching in some of the most spoiled fans in the NFL.

hawaiianboy
01-04-2001, 08:37 PM
Damn Cannibal... thats some funny shiyot!

Cannibal
01-04-2001, 08:40 PM
Thanks dudes, I kinda like it myself... http://www.geocities.com/cannibal1970/biglaugh.gif

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http://www.geocities.com/cannibal1970/player7475.jpg

Damn man! I'm hungry... anybody got a doughnut up in this mutha fugga? I won't jump offsides if ya gimme one bidge!

NaptownChief
01-04-2001, 08:45 PM
On the surface I feel bad for him also, but then I think about dropping 3 in a row to the Faiders and grossly underachieving this season and then all of the sudden I don't feel so bad anymore...

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[b]Leading the Dan Morgan bandwagon</B>

Frazod
01-04-2001, 08:46 PM
Perhaps if we balance a doughnut on top of Chester's helmet, he won't jump offsides so much.

Just a thought... :D

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Frazod

Have I ever mentioned that I hate Denver?
http://www.geocities.com/cannibal1970/devil.gif

morphius
01-04-2001, 08:46 PM
And out of nowhere sneaks in JQ, ready for Sat?

morphius
01-04-2001, 08:47 PM
Fraz - Or one on the opposing a QB so that he might hit him on occasion.

Frazod
01-04-2001, 08:50 PM
Too much temptation, Morph. If that doughnut was on the other side, he'd ALWAYS jump offsides!

JQ, I wish your guys luck this weekend. I hate Miami and always have. Don't think the Raiders will have much trouble with them.

I don't hold out much hope for Oakland the following week, though.

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Frazod

Have I ever mentioned that I hate Denver?
http://www.geocities.com/cannibal1970/devil.gif

Cannibal
01-04-2001, 08:53 PM
Now, with the way Peterson is handling the Gun situation, I am wondering if I should have kept my Carl Hitler signature.

It's definately more topical at the moment.

Nah! I like the new one!



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http://www.geocities.com/cannibal1970/player7475.jpg

Damn man! I'm hungry... anybody got a doughnut up in this mutha fugga? I won't jump offsides if ya gimme one bidge!

Chiefnj
01-04-2001, 08:56 PM
DaWolf,

I feel your pain. When Marty left, it was time. He turned the organization around and left on his own terms. He put in some great years but he knew it was time to bail.

Gunther is just sad. As a head coach the guy was obviously clueless. Whether it be preseason, his lack of gameplanning for the regular season, how he treated veterans, how he pointed fingers, how he continually stuck his foot in his mouth with the media - it was just downright sad that someone could put so much time and heart in a project and come up empty. He was Charlie Brown trying to kick the darn football. Working Christmas morning after your team has been eliminated from the playoffs - there really isn't more to say.

Gun's family deserves some time with the guy. Gun needs time to decompress and get his priorities straight. I hope he takes a year off to smell the roses and then comes back as a successful DC in the NFC.

Frazod
01-04-2001, 08:56 PM
Nah, Carl's not Hitler-like today. He's more like a marauding barbarian. Perhaps you should superimpose his face on Conan's body.

CRUSH YOUR ENEMIES, SEE THEM DRIVEN BEFORE YOU, AND HERE THE LAMENTATIONS OF THE RAMS!

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Frazod

Have I ever mentioned that I hate Denver?
http://www.geocities.com/cannibal1970/devil.gif

TEX
01-04-2001, 09:13 PM
Marv Levy had this to say about Vermiel:

"It's not just the time you put in that helps you win. Don't count the minutes. Make the minutes count."

That can also be said about Gun except he didn't make them count.
<BR>

stevieray
01-04-2001, 09:43 PM
I totally agree Wolf. But knowing his past, I'm sure he'll be ok. I do know the guy wanted the Chiefs to win more than anyone.


Wish I could buy him a beer :(

AZChief
01-04-2001, 10:44 PM
Excellent post, I feel the same way and am totally embarrassed by the way this whole thing has been handled.

Though I think Gun's failed this year, I still think with the amount of rookies we played things were going to take some time to come together. I think the rapidly "emptying" Arrowhead had more to do with his firing than his performance.

KC fans have always been fickle, er, fair weather...

AZ

Yosef_Malkovitch
01-04-2001, 11:58 PM
AZ- I don't think you can call the fans "fickle" simply because they didn't want to dole out their hard-earned cash and freeze their arses off to watch their team lose.

Think about it. Those last few games, it definitely would have been an inconvenience to go out there. You have to spend the cash for the ticket (and don't forget the parking) and take several hours out of your day to go freeze.

Now, that's all good and well if you have reasonable justification for believing your team is going to win. HOWEVER--- if you think they're probably going to lose (which I certainly did) then you are a lot less likely to go. I mean, even if you get the cheap seats, you're gonna end up spending about 50 bucks after you figure in parking. Add in the cost of refreshments (read: beer to numb the pain of suffering through another inept coaching ordeal), and dealing with all the traffic and the cold, and I can see why many people preferred to watch the Chiefs lose from the comfort of their own homes.

"Fickle" is not the correct word for the people who didn't show up. "Smart" is better. Besides, wasn't everyone screaming that we needed to stop going to send a message to management? It would appear they heard us...

[This message has been edited by Yosef_Malkovitch (edited 01-05-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Yosef_Malkovitch (edited 01-05-2001).]

mlyonsd
01-05-2001, 06:23 AM
Gun had his chance and as bad as I wanted him to succeed he kept doing dumb things.

I'd buy him a beer too, but at least CP is doing the right thing by replacing Gun. Might not be handled the cleanest but at least it is happening.

KCTitus
01-05-2001, 06:40 AM
So it sounds to me like you all are upset because Carl hasnt come out and said that Gunther has been fired publicly.

None of you know what has gone on behind close doors, so I dont really understand how you can think this has been handled 'badly'.

If you have inside information as to exactly what happened, I'd be interested to know exactly what it was that makes you think this is being handled in a bad way by Carl.

Gun did not go to Arrowhead yesterday. This is the same guy that was at the stadium at 5AM on Christmas Day. This alone says he's been told something, like, not to come back.

MrBlond
01-05-2001, 06:46 AM
After seeing the way Gunther handled Kimble Anders, I have no sympathy for him. I say put Gun back to return kickoffs at end of a meaningless game.

KUChief
01-05-2001, 06:51 AM
Well put DaWolf. I too wanted Gun to succeed badly. The way that he is now being treated is disgusting. Gun deserves more respect than he is getting now with his employment situation. If he was to be let go or fired then Carl should have done it shortly after the Atlanta game and he should have done it face to face (like a man) rather than have Gun read it in the media. Carl is a F!#K!!!

Gun if you do indeed read this board then I just want to wish you good luck and ask that you PLEASE go to the NFC and not the AFC. I also would like to buy you a beer.

I will always be a Gunther Cunningham fan!<BR>

KUChief
01-05-2001, 06:58 AM
KCTitus, I read today that Gun did indeed go to work yesterday morning as usual, but when he started reading the reports in the media that he was no longer the HC of the Chiefs then he went home to monitor the situation.

How would you like it if you showed up for work and everyone (except your boss) told you that you were being replaced/fired or let go? That would suck.

One thing is for certain, with this whole fiasco, if this deal with Dick doesn't work out for some reason, Carl will still be looking for a new HC.

Gaz
01-05-2001, 07:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> After seeing the way Gunther handled Kimble Anders, I have no sympathy for him. I say put Gun back to return kickoffs at end of a meaningless game.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Man, that is cold. Funny, accurate and appropriate, but cold.

xoxo~
gaz
goosebumped.<BR>

MrBlond
01-05-2001, 07:26 AM
Gaz,

Gun was in the paper early this year saying Kimble has lost a step and is not the player he used to be. He misused and and publicly abused Kimble when, IMO, Kimble may have been our best RB. In my mind Kimble at HB and TRich at FB or vice-versa was the best combo we had, yet Kimble is at times behind Cloud, Moreau, Bennett, and Richardson. Then at the end of the year and maybe at the end of his career he sticks him back to return KO's like some rookie that has to impress on special teams to make the squad next year. Pathetic. Then Gun sends his wife out to talk to the media. I have no love for King Carl, but as the saying goes...what comes around, goes around. It has come around for Gun, and someday will come around for Carl.

Baby Lee
01-05-2001, 07:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Helvetica, verdana, ariel">quote:</font><HR> Whitlock is right about Peterson on this one, he's being totally classless in the way he's treating Gunther. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I feel bad for Gun. To tell the truth, I was more pumped about the Chiefs following the Rams game this year, than I have been in years. It is beyond me how it fell apart in the second half of the season.
That being said, I refuse to swallow for a second the mock-indignation of Whit and Keitz on the radio in he last 24 hours. Pure horsesh!t from them.
these guys have viewed themselves as assassins, on a mission to get rid of Gun and Carl from at least the pre-season. Gun made himself an easy target and they went after him day-after-day-after-day.
Now that he's gone, he's a saint. How could Carl do this? What a shaunda. Kinda reminds me of Livia [the mom on the Sopranos] bawling her eyes out about her sainted dead husband, knowing she wore him to a nub when he was alive, and using her mock-grief to get her digs in at her son.<BR>

Gaz
01-05-2001, 07:49 AM
Mr. Blond-

Don't misunderstand me. I was not criticizing. I agree with you.

xoxo~
gaz
glad to be rid of Gunther at HC.<BR>

MrBlond
01-05-2001, 07:54 AM
Johnny,

Nice Sopranos reference. Is it just me or does Carl look like Silvio?

KCTitus
01-05-2001, 07:58 AM
KUChief: Yes, that wouldnt be good at all and if that were the truth, I would condemn Carl's lack of balls to tell the man to his face. Of course, that is totally out of character for Carl. If one remembers the Tait situation, Carl has no problem telling it like it is.

I've read reports that stated that Gun was fired yesterday morning, but KC wont confirm it. - I wish they would, but it would make sense that he went to work in the AM, was fired and then left as well as the reports you read.

Bottom line is: until someone comes public and makes it official, we really wont know and probably will never know the truth. I guess I find it hard to demonize Carl at this point for doing something which I believe we all agree needed to be done to improve this team.

This will rid KC, finally, of all vestiges of the Marty Schottenheimer regime once and for all. For the better or worse is anybody's guess, but at this point I would have to say it cant get much worse.

Baby Lee
01-05-2001, 08:01 AM
Thanx, and I gotta 'nother reference. Saddam Hussein.

Did anyone listent to Keitz'show last night. I just caught a bit of it. But I heard this kid, musta been 8-10 call in about the Chiefs. Said he thought Vermeil'd be a good coach. Then Keitz cuts him off and starts asking;
Does your Daddy work?
Does he have a boss?
Would you like it if he went to work and they told him he didn't have a job?
That'd stink, wouldn't it?

Of all the nerve. Remember in the Gulf war, Saddam holding those press conferences with the kids at his knee, so passive-aggressive? Keitz was using this kid caller in his jihaad against CarlP. Not only that, but berating him for doing what the wohle WHB crew has called for all year.

MrBlond
01-05-2001, 08:01 AM
Gaz,
I know. I didnt mean to sound so shrill. I think I was responding more to Joe Po. His defense of Gun as a hard working, loyal, sainted, loveable underdog was innaccurate, IMO. His finger pointing at Marty, Kurt, Jimmy Raye, Stock, Kimble, Maz and the rookies coupled with his LACK OF SUCCESS in 32 games as HC EARNED his dismissal. Should have Carl fired him on the plane ride from ATL? Hell yes. But I for one am not crying for Cunningham. (or Argentina, for that matter.)

Baby Lee
01-05-2001, 08:04 AM
MRBlond - Technically, YOU would be Argentina. And you wouldn't be crying for Eva Peron. But I get your gist.

Bricky
01-05-2001, 08:06 AM
I feel bad for Gun as a person, but as a head coach, it is time for him to go.

I don't see how anyone on this board can say that this was not handled properly. We don't know what was said behind closed doors. Also, after the dust clears, whose story will we believe? Gun, who is mad at the Chiefs organization and King Carl? The organization that always put their spin on it? Or Peterson, who is also looking out for his best interest, which, most of the time, is the same as the Chiefs organization?

As for Gun going in to the office on Thursday, did he go in to work or to clean out his desk? Did he go in at all?

Also heard this morning that the Rams want a first round pick as comp. for Vermeil.

More questions than answers.

WisChief
01-05-2001, 08:14 AM
It's time for him to go. I was fortunate enough to meet Gun at River Falls this past summer at TC. There were 20 people screaming at him trying to get an autograph and he had to go to practice. He was calm, cool and collected and signed every football, piece of paper, yearbook, helmet or whatever else was stuffed in his face. He was a good person to us fans that wanted his attention. He is a nice guy on the surface. But... we are not the players that he disrespects (or so they say)nor are we the people that directly pay his salary (of course we do indirectly!). He can't get the job done as a HC and I can only think of one of us here on this board that thinks other wise. The NFL is a cut throat business and everyone in it knows it. He and his family will be fine - don't worry about him - worry about the Chiefs and getting a Super Bowl victory and your pain for Gunther will quickly go away - I PROMISE!!! http://www.chiefsplanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

WisChief
01-05-2001, 08:17 AM
One other thing, I posted in a thread to Ken once that I thought Gun should have one more year. I still would support him if he was here and maybe one more year would get it done (2 years does seem short :confused :), but if he leaves under his own accord or other, so be it. I want a SuperBowl victory and I question if Gun can do it????

ROYC75
01-05-2001, 08:20 AM
I like Gun,can't help it!Is it time to move on,probally yes with all things concidered.Can he be a good HC someday,can't answer that for sure,we all learn from our mistakes.KC needs a winner now,not later.

I'm not sold on the this Vemeil thing. Vermeil has had problems in the past with players too,he crys alot more than Gunther,he must surround himself with good coaches(just like any other HC needs to)be any better than what we have now!

Gun was given that option in the beginning,here is what you got,get to work! 1st year was fair,no changes to coaches,should have made a few player changes...CP job on this move! 2nd year Gun got sidetracked from DT's death,crime,rookies,and stuck with the rookies! Everybody wanted a younger more aggressive team,we got half of it due to a soft zone Defense.

Hard to make major changes in a team in 2 years to get SB results......I feel that Vermeil will go throu a few changes (with the proper coaches beside him)and be a little bit better than this year! A new system,new coaches takes time to learn....Vermeil will stick around for 2,maybe 3 yrs...then another change...Al Saunders,who I feel is better than Vermeil now anyway. If Al changes things in 2 yrs,are we any better off?

Drop this Vermeil chase now,get Al; with the quality coaches and move on now...not later!


Remember that a HC is only as good as the players and coaches that surround him! (Just not looking for more changes in the near future!)

BTW... For a 1st class program like the Chiefs, CP is acting like a 1st class jerk to Gun ! This is horrible the way this has come out about getting replaced!


[This message has been edited by ROYC75 (edited 01-05-2001).]

redhed
01-05-2001, 08:30 AM
I too feel for Gun. But, he was in over his head. I think he got overwhelmed by everything, and the way he dealt with it was to put in more hours. He had a misguided approach from the start. I think the players picked up on this and started to question what the heck they were doing.

I heard that Gun knew he was going to get the axe on Wednesday. He came in on Thursday morning and took his rolodex and went home. I'm pretty sure he started looking for a new job on Thursday. This was reported on WHB810. I wouldn't worry too much for Gun, he's still going to get paid by the Chiefs (2 years left on his contract), and if he gets hired he'll be getting double pay for a bit. Not too shabby. I'm just glad the stooges are outta here!

The reason this deal hasn't completely gone through is because ST.L wants some high draft picks for Vermeil and KC doesn't even think they have to give any compensation at all. This is why it has ben taken to the league office. Mr. Hunt and Carl are debating the language of Vermeil's contract with St.L. Marty's contract was arranged so that if he did go somewhere else the Chiefs were due compensation. CP and Mr. Hunt's contention is that Vermeil's contract doesn't have that kind of a clause in it. I'm not totally sure about that last part, but that's what I gather from the radio.

rh :mad:
seeing some light at the end...

[This message has been edited by redhed (edited 01-05-2001).]

redhed
01-05-2001, 08:31 AM
dupe *friggin*


[This message has been edited by redhed (edited 01-05-2001).]

redhed
01-05-2001, 08:32 AM
dupe


[This message has been edited by redhed (edited 01-05-2001).]

58Forever
01-05-2001, 08:32 AM
http://www.geocities.com/cannibal1970/biglaugh.gif

Sorry I had to try the laugh thing....

I think Gun knew about this before yesterday...or at least had an idea...I know they are saying he learned about it on the internet, but I have a feeling that he knew something was up or else he would have shown up for work yesterday...

What I want to know is who leaked the story?...I mean it seems like everyone knew about this before Carl did...
[This message has been edited by 58Forever (edited 01-05-2001).]

[This message has been edited by 58Forever (edited 01-05-2001).]