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Jilly
10-09-2006, 01:55 PM
This may have been addressed in another thread and if so, point me there... But, what do you think LJ's problem is this year?

Is it that he isn't running angry?
Is it that Herm's loudly proclaimed our offense to be a running offense and so it's predictable?
Is it that we have no good lead blocker?
Is it that we miss Willie Roaf?

I'm sure it's a combo, but...what do you think?

CupidStunt
10-09-2006, 02:03 PM
All of the above plus the interior line is blocking line dogsh*t, every single one of them, especially Wiegmann.

StcChief
10-09-2006, 02:03 PM
Opponent's D are stacking the box (8 in) against our weaker O line. Huard needs to burn 'em a few times.
Shots down field.

LJ Fumbles?????

Game plan better to use LJ/ TE's in flat more.
the last LJ catch/run that saved the game example.

jidar
10-09-2006, 02:06 PM
Well our passing threat level is way down, and our tackles have problems so the outside run isn't as effective. What does that leave? Stack the middle.

We're much much easier to gameplan for than we were at the end of last year.

noa
10-09-2006, 02:06 PM
I think the loss of Willie Roaf really hurts. We can't run stretch plays or toss plays to the left, which used to be our bread and butter. Without that as a viable option, the defense knows it can key in on stopping the run up the gut. Basically, our options are more limited in the running game, which always makes it easier for an opposing defense.

Sorce
10-09-2006, 02:50 PM
Opponents I think are commiting to LJ. They are basically saying we're gonna make Huard beat us. It's exactly what I would do as the opposition in that situation, make the backup have to throw. Fortunately for us Huard has been solid.

Rising Sun
10-09-2006, 02:58 PM
Our offense is conservative. We dont stretch the field, which allows teams to play 8 and 9 in the box. We run very little misdirection, allowing teams to overpersue to the point off attack. We try to run to set up the pass, but in the modern day of football and the sheer speed that linebackers have, it would be beneficial IMO to pass to set up the run. We also need to quit calling draw plays in obvious situations. There is no element of surprise in our offense. We have become too predictable.

Jilly
10-09-2006, 04:26 PM
Opponents I think are commiting to LJ. They are basically saying we're gonna make Huard beat us. It's exactly what I would do as the opposition in that situation, make the backup have to throw. Fortunately for us Huard has been solid.

He has been solid - although one of those games (Denver), I would argue he wasn't challenged enough. And the Arizona game his receivers couldn't catch crap. If we are going to have Huard make the big plays to throw off the d and be unpredictable, we have to have receivers that can catch the big passes. I thought Sammie Parker could do that - maybe he was just having a bad game. I also agree with whoever said it earlier, we have to use Larry, not just in running, since opponents are committing to him, but in the flat, etc. etc....

I think my big concern is that in the past, I've always seen Larry push himself through, break tackles that looked impossible, because he seemed motivated enough to do so...but I just haven't seen that this year at all.

Deberg_1990
10-09-2006, 04:34 PM
I blame George Bush!

Rising Sun
10-09-2006, 04:34 PM
He has been solid - although one of those games (Denver), I would argue he wasn't challenged enough. And the Arizona game his receivers couldn't catch crap. If we are going to have Huard make the big plays to throw off the d and be unpredictable, we have to have receivers that can catch the big passes. I thought Sammie Parker could do that - maybe he was just having a bad game. I also agree with whoever said it earlier, we have to use Larry, not just in running, since opponents are committing to him, but in the flat, etc. etc....

I think my big concern is that in the past, I've always seen Larry push himself through, break tackles that looked impossible, because he seemed motivated enough to do so...but I just haven't seen that this year at all.

Its not lack of motivation. Last year he got his momentum going, which helped him break tackles. Hes taking too many hits in the backfield, which doesnt allow him to get going.

steelyeyed57
10-09-2006, 04:56 PM
WILLIE ROAF AND JOHN WELBOURNE
&
JORDAN BLACK AND KEVIN SAMPSON

I know it's hard to believe, but offensive line play really does matter. I haven't seen a decent running lane for LJ all year -- he had great run blocking last year

Bowser
10-09-2006, 05:12 PM
WILLIE ROAF AND JOHN WELBOURNE
&
JORDAN BLACK AND KEVIN SAMPSON

I know it's hard to believe, but offensive line play really does matter. I haven't seen a decent running lane for LJ all year -- he had great run blocking last year

Summed up right here.

brent102fire
10-09-2006, 05:54 PM
WILLIE ROAF AND JOHN WELBOURNE
&
JORDAN BLACK AND KEVIN SAMPSON

I know it's hard to believe, but offensive line play really does matter. I haven't seen a decent running lane for LJ all year -- he had great run blocking last year

I would agree...watch games from last year and watch the games this year. LJ is getting contact at or behind the the line of scrimmage alot more this year than last. I believe it is because of the departure of Roaf and Welbourn. LJ doesn't have the time to be patient and wait for his blocks because the blocks don't get executed. Also, they cannot utilize the sweeps, off tackle runs or short passes to the flats because Black can't seem to get his blocks consistently. It all starts at the O-Line...that is why LJ is what he is...

Calcountry
10-09-2006, 06:20 PM
He has been solid - although one of those games (Denver), I would argue he wasn't challenged enough. And the Arizona game his receivers couldn't catch crap. If we are going to have Huard make the big plays to throw off the d and be unpredictable, we have to have receivers that can catch the big passes. I thought Sammie Parker could do that - maybe he was just having a bad game. I also agree with whoever said it earlier, we have to use Larry, not just in running, since opponents are committing to him, but in the flat, etc. etc....

I think my big concern is that in the past, I've always seen Larry push himself through, break tackles that looked impossible, because he seemed motivated enough to do so...but I just haven't seen that this year at all.Why not Play action pass, with a good fake, ON FIRST DOWN.

Some times the fake by Huard yesterday wouldn't fool a 5 year old trick or treating, he would still be standing there waiting for the candy, as in, you didn't put enough, if anything in the bag, so I am like not going anywhere until you do.

First down play action pass, with a good fake, got to work on that fake Huard AND LJ. Huard needs to carry out the fake when he DOES hand the ball of to LJ better as well.


Absolutely critical that we establish a good play action pass game, see Steve Deberg for more information on this subject.

Calcountry
10-09-2006, 06:23 PM
I blame George Bush!I blame Halliburton.

KC Jones
10-09-2006, 06:23 PM
LJ's only real problem is coughing up the ball.

Rising Sun
10-10-2006, 10:46 AM
This may have been addressed in another thread and if so, point me there... But, what do you think LJ's problem is this year?

Is it that he isn't running angry?
Is it that Herm's loudly proclaimed our offense to be a running offense and so it's predictable?
Is it that we have no good lead blocker?
Is it that we miss Willie Roaf?

I'm sure it's a combo, but...what do you think?


Our offense is too predictable. The lead blocker is overrated, because if you remember when we were mixing up our plays last year, LJ did most of his damage without a fullback in the game. We do miss Willie Roaf, but hes not going to block 8 or 9 men by himself. The only thing that will stop herm from running repeatedly into a stacked box is a deficit on the scoreboard. Our offense gets dictated to, rather than dictating the game to the defense.

morphius
10-10-2006, 10:53 AM
We have also tried to run a lot of a formation where we have 10 men in the box and 1 WR out in the flat. Which means instead of having to worry about 7 or 8 in the box we have 10 defenders in the box as well. I'm not sure why we keep lining up in this short yardage formation, but damn it, spread the D out a bit.

Rising Sun
10-10-2006, 11:08 AM
We have also tried to run a lot of a formation where we have 10 men in the box and 1 WR out in the flat. Which means instead of having to worry about 7 or 8 in the box we have 10 defenders in the box as well. I'm not sure why we keep lining up in this short yardage formation, but damn it, spread the D out a bit.

Agreed. Why have we gotten away from the spread formation? Ill take LJ running the ball in a spread formation any day. Spread formations just arent herms cup of tea. He likes his offense like jack daniels, aged from another decade.

boogblaster
10-10-2006, 11:17 AM
Yep that it..no spreads to move the D.out of the middle..they stack up and stop LJ for short yardage..more play action is needed too....

bringbackmarty
10-10-2006, 11:20 AM
I blame Halliburton.
same damnn thing.

CoMoChief
10-10-2006, 11:28 AM
Well let's see....

1. Trent Green is out, so teams are going to focus on stopping LJ to make our backup QB Huard beat them.

2. Roaf and Welbourn and Turley aren't playing. Losing your HOF LT and former starting RT in one offseason won't help one bit. Not to mention we lose Roaf's replacement to a back injury.

3. LJ is a marked man, period. Teams know we are a running team, teams will stack 8-9 people in the box to stop the run, combine that with a not so good Oline like we have had in the past can make it tough for LJ to gain.

Everything starts with the Oline on offense. Priest Holmes was good because of our Oline. Derick Blaylock filled in well because of our Oline. Larry Johnson last season produced all of those number because of our Oline. Trent Green wasn't injured for 5 seasons because of our Oline. We don't have the Oline we once had. Granted the talent level of the RB factors in, but after the RB has surpassed the first level of defensive players.

God Damn do I miss Roaf. Roaf at 60% is better than 90% of the OT's in this league. But he doesnt wanna play so I guess theres no choice but to respect his decision. I just wish he made it final before the draft. There were some good OT's in this seasons draft.

InChiefsHell
10-10-2006, 11:30 AM
Somehow, his head is not it the game either. He's fumbled STUPIDLY in 2 games now, both pretty critical situations. Denver game is a W (probably...)if he does not fumble there. Also, he was pretty much soley responsible for the early sack on Huard with the wiff block against AZ. As soon as I saw play action, I was like, OK LJ, you need to block...he got smoked.

As good as he is a runner, he still has some mental issues and some blocking issues. Add to that TRich is gone, Roaf and Welborne not blocking, and I think we are seeing that LJ has the potential to be...ordinary...unless he can get his head out of his arse...

...not throwing him under the bus, btw. That play where he was facemasked gave me hope (before the facemask, of course). He's still there, but he's got to get his head in it.

Rising Sun
10-10-2006, 11:48 AM
Well let's see....

1. Trent Green is out, so teams are going to focus on stopping LJ to make our backup QB Huard beat them.

2. Roaf and Welbourn and Turley aren't playing. Losing your HOF LT and former starting RT in one offseason won't help one bit. Not to mention we lose Roaf's replacement to a back injury.

3. LJ is a marked man, period. Teams know we are a running team, teams will stack 8-9 people in the box to stop the run, combine that with a not so good Oline like we have had in the past can make it tough for LJ to gain.

Everything starts with the Oline on offense. Priest Holmes was good because of our Oline. Derick Blaylock filled in well because of our Oline. Larry Johnson last season produced all of those number because of our Oline. Trent Green wasn't injured for 5 seasons because of our Oline. We don't have the Oline we once had. Granted the talent level of the RB factors in, but after the RB has surpassed the first level of defensive players.

God Damn do I miss Roaf. Roaf at 60% is better than 90% of the OT's in this league. But he doesnt wanna play so I guess theres no choice but to respect his decision. I just wish he made it final before the draft. There were some good OT's in this seasons draft.

Trent is out, but Huard has shown an ability, but the coaches are scared shitless of turning the ball over, so they wont let him try.

How about gameplanning against a stacked front? Maybe spread them out to open up some running lanes? No, we play right into their hands and run tight formations to keep everything in a tiny area.

Blaylock looked like ass even behind our oline. Remember before we drafted LJ and Priest went down, and Blaylock laid out that embarrassing performance to end the season?

Rising Sun
10-10-2006, 11:51 AM
Somehow, his head is not it the game either. He's fumbled STUPIDLY in 2 games now, both pretty critical situations. Denver game is a W (probably...)if he does not fumble there. Also, he was pretty much soley responsible for the early sack on Huard with the wiff block against AZ. As soon as I saw play action, I was like, OK LJ, you need to block...he got smoked.

As good as he is a runner, he still has some mental issues and some blocking issues. Add to that TRich is gone, Roaf and Welborne not blocking, and I think we are seeing that LJ has the potential to be...ordinary...unless he can get his head out of his arse...

...not throwing him under the bus, btw. That play where he was facemasked gave me hope (before the facemask, of course). He's still there, but he's got to get his head in it.

A fumble does in no way mean that your head isnt it in the game. Sometimes the defense just makes a good play on the ball, like in his second fumble. Theres no excuse for the first fumble, but i would be willing to bet he was in a big hurry because he was surprised that noone was in the backfield to hit him as he took the handoff.

We didnt lose the denver game because LJ fumbled. The game never got away from us. The reason we lost to denver was because our offense went in a shell at the end, because Herm is conservative. When you go on the road and play not to lose, your surely not going to win, and thats exactly what happened at denver, no way around it.

InChiefsHell
10-10-2006, 02:07 PM
A fumble does in no way mean that your head isnt it in the game. Sometimes the defense just makes a good play on the ball, like in his second fumble. Theres no excuse for the first fumble, but i would be willing to bet he was in a big hurry because he was surprised that noone was in the backfield to hit him as he took the handoff.

We didnt lose the denver game because LJ fumbled. The game never got away from us. The reason we lost to denver was because our offense went in a shell at the end, because Herm is conservative. When you go on the road and play not to lose, your surely not going to win, and thats exactly what happened at denver, no way around it.

Agreed. I guess the fumble is part of the game, and who knows how the game would have played out had we scored a touchdown on that drive rather than fumble it. But, getting a TD or even an early FG in that game would have made a point difference, so who knows.

We lost at Denver because we were'nt ready to be the Chiefs offense yet. Huard is getting better and better, so hopefully that won't be an issue down the road. As much, anyway.

DJJasonp
10-10-2006, 02:17 PM
I mentioned in a previous thread....

The best cure for any ills that LJ might be having (mental focus, etc.).....is Priest Holmes receiving a clean bill of health from the doctors....

Then it's back to angry LJ again....problem solved!

Sorce
10-10-2006, 02:32 PM
The only thing that will stop herm from running repeatedly into a stacked box is a deficit on the scoreboard.

I have no problem running into a stacked box as long as we're taking shots down field and lighting them up that way. The 49ers game LJ didn't have a lot of success but we kept at it. We showed we weren't going to abandon the run and they had to respect it. Because of this we were able to pass all over them.

In these situations we should run the PA pass and take shots at them deep. They'll either back off the run and let LJ do something or they'll stick with it and get torched through the air.

vailpass
10-10-2006, 02:38 PM
Do you mean to say that injuries and changes in the O line, combined with the fact that LJ is a full time starter so opposing Ds scheme for him, has an effect on his performance?
What a concept. How special.

Frazod
10-10-2006, 02:49 PM
His problem - f#cking butterfingers. Cost us one game we damn well should have won (Denver) and almost cost us another.

To hell with analysis and excuses. He's paid millions of dollars to carry the ball. Hold onto the goddamn thing.

HemiEd
10-10-2006, 03:00 PM
His problem - f#cking butterfingers. Cost us one game we damn well should have won (Denver) and almost cost us another.

To hell with analysis and excuses. He's paid millions of dollars to carry the ball. Hold onto the goddamn thing.


Very well said Tim.

GoHuge
10-10-2006, 03:03 PM
Obviously all of the above are contributing factors, Roaf, Richardson, patchwork line, etc. But LJ is still 20 yards a game better than the next guy in yards from scrimmage. At least the Chiefs are finding a way to utilize him when they are stacking the box. He's still getting 150 per game. Not as exciting as 150 rushing yards per game but like I said he's 20 yards per game better than the next guy in the league and most of those are YAC. When he gets the ball he's getting it done. Can't understand all the fumbles right now, but it's not really fair to ask whats wrong with LJ. He's not a bowling ball that is going to knock down ten pins lined up directly in front of him like teams are doing without some help. That HOF, All Pro help he's had is either retired, injured, getting old, or playing for the Vikings.

trndobrd
10-10-2006, 03:04 PM
If we just had someone who could be a consistent threat between 10-15 yards across the middle of the field. The possibility of 3 or 4 long shots down field isn't going to keep opposing defenses from stacking the box, and is still difficult considering out pass protection problems. What we need a sure handed player that can consistently get open at about 10 yards, right behind the linebackers so the safeties aren't as aggressive in moving up for run support and the LB have to think about short routes in addition to stopping the run.

Maybe someday Herm and Solari will find a player like that.

vailpass
10-10-2006, 03:09 PM
If we just had someone who could be a consistent threat between 10-15 yards across the middle of the field. The possibility of 3 or 4 long shots down field isn't going to keep opposing defenses from stacking the box, and is still difficult considering out pass protection problems. What we need a sure handed player that can consistently get open at about 10 yards, right behind the linebackers so the safeties aren't as aggressive in moving up for run support and the LB have to think about short routes in addition to stopping the run.

Maybe someday Herm and Solari will find a player like that.

If they find that guy and use him to catch passes Croyle will see action a lot sooner than you might like.

trndobrd
10-10-2006, 03:20 PM
If they find that guy and use him to catch passes Croyle will see action a lot sooner than you might like.


I have no desire to see Croyle get any more action, unless it's similar to the 49ers game and I understand the need for better pass protection. But someone needs to find a player that goes short across the middle more than twice a game.

Dark Horse
10-10-2006, 03:29 PM
It seems to me that LJ has looked tentative at times this year. Instead of getting low and taking the 2 or 3 yards the defense will give he has stayed too upright and allowed himself to be pulled down instead of leaning forward and driving with his legs. In the Denver game I think he knew going in he was not going to break many 20 yard runs so he stayed low and attacked and he looked a lot like he did last year. He just needs to settle down and take whats there and forget about all that 2000 yard nonsense.

Kyle401
10-10-2006, 04:36 PM
It seems to me that LJ has looked tentative at times this year. Instead of getting low and taking the 2 or 3 yards the defense will give he has stayed too upright and allowed himself to be pulled down instead of leaning forward and driving with his legs. In the Denver game I think he knew going in he was not going to break many 20 yard runs so he stayed low and attacked and he looked a lot like he did last year. He just needs to settle down and take whats there and forget about all that 2000 yard nonsense.

Yep. He may have bought into his own hype a little and he seems to be carrying himself a little bit high this year. That just makes what he has been able to accomplish that much more impressive. Hopefully he will get back to picking up the tough 3 yards when there is no hole. He's definately going to need to get lower to do it though.

FAX
10-10-2006, 04:43 PM
LJ is fine. If he can stop fumbling the ball and we can get some cleaner blocking from the interior line, you'll start seeing more yardage from the run. That will come.

The biggest problem I see is that we seem to be unable to run classic Chief sweeps, stretch plays, and outside handoffs. Obviously, it would be best to have a tackle or two to do that, but we should be able to spread defenses if we can employ our TEs to assist in those types of plays. Solari appears to be trying reverses to keep defenses honest, but it's not an ideal solution by any means.

Right now, everything is in the middle and there's only so much fun you can have doing that when the enemy's box is stacked.

FAX

Crashride
10-10-2006, 04:46 PM
Yea he needs to cover up that ball when he runs into those walls, but given the circumstances larry is perfect for this offense. He makes the big plays when it matters and hes patient.

FAX
10-10-2006, 04:48 PM
Yea he needs to cover up that ball when he runs into those walls, but given the circumstances larry is perfect for this offense. He makes the big plays when it matters and hes patient.

That was also, I believe, the only screen we ran that day, Mr. Crashride.

I think the Cards were waiting for him to bang his head into Shield's ass again. It was a very good call.

FAX

HIChief
10-10-2006, 06:35 PM
Trent is out, but Huard has shown an ability, but the coaches are scared shitless of turning the ball over, so they wont let him try.

How about gameplanning against a stacked front? Maybe spread them out to open up some running lanes? No, we play right into their hands and run tight formations to keep everything in a tiny area.

Blaylock looked like ass even behind our oline. Remember before we drafted LJ and Priest went down, and Blaylock laid out that embarrassing performance to end the season?

How stacked against the run can a 3-4 defense be--ala Pittsburg? Would LJ have a better day against this scheme? What would our O-line have to do to help LJ crack some decent runs against the Steelers?