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View Full Version : Mario Williams or Tamba Hali?


banyon
10-10-2006, 09:50 PM
Who would you rather have?

SNR
10-10-2006, 09:51 PM
Mario Williams is the next Courtney Brown.

Give me Tamba

Halfcan
10-10-2006, 09:52 PM
Tamba continues to impress me-he always seems to be around the ball.

Miles
10-10-2006, 09:54 PM
Still way too early for this one. Though its a plesent suprise that this type of thread not completly ridiculous as it would have been six months ago. I am happy to say it is definitly looking like I was completly wrong about Hali.

Mecca
10-10-2006, 09:54 PM
....Mario Williams upside is so much greater, after 4-5 games I'd still take Williams Hali is alot more finished and closer to what he'll end up being where as Williams hasn't even scratched the surface yet.

Wa-Z
10-10-2006, 09:54 PM
Tamba = Defensive Rookie Of The Year

banyon
10-10-2006, 09:54 PM
.

L.A. Chieffan
10-10-2006, 09:55 PM
Mario Williams? You mean like Sam Bowie?

Mecca
10-10-2006, 09:55 PM
Tamba = Defensive Rookie Of The Year

Better get 10 sacks if he wants that.....cause I'm guessing guys like AJ Hawk will look like they had monster years when the year finishes.

JohnnyV13
10-10-2006, 09:57 PM
What about Bears rookie DE Mark Anderson. The dude has 5 1/2 sacks in 5 games. He was a 5th round draft pick.

Mecca
10-10-2006, 09:59 PM
The 2 Bills safeties, Whitner and Simpson look like excellent defensive rookies also. Whitner was defensive rookie of the month for September.

NaptownChief
10-10-2006, 10:00 PM
....Mario Williams upside is so much greater,


And so was Andre Bruce's.... :D


In all seriousness it is way too early to tell but I said on draft day I wouldn't be the least bit shocked if Hali ended up the better of the two.

banyon
10-10-2006, 10:02 PM
Mario Williams seems like he has very Courtney Brown-esque measurables. Unfortunately, he also might have very Courtney Brown-esque heart.

SLAG
10-10-2006, 10:02 PM
What about Bears rookie DE Mark Anderson. The dude has 5 1/2 sacks in 5 games. He was a 5th round draft pick.


He has a Damn good supporting cast that allows him to get in there and get to the QB-

but-

back on the topic

I had this conversation and work today with this dallas fan-

we both agreed that the Texans Might have made the dumbest Draft in a LONG time- Vs- Bush, Lineheart- Young- etc

Mecca
10-10-2006, 10:05 PM
Vince Young is the worst guy taken in that top 10......the Titans are running variations of the option in their offense because of him, it's all he does well.

Woodrow Call
10-10-2006, 10:07 PM
Vince Young is the worst guy taken in that top 10......the Titans are running variations of the option in their offense because of him, it's all he does well.

I agree.

Halfcan
10-10-2006, 10:10 PM
....Mario Williams upside is so much greater, after 4-5 games I'd still take Williams Hali is alot more finished and closer to what he'll end up being where as Williams hasn't even scratched the surface yet.

Do you even like the Chiefs-you are starting to worry me with that sad sack attitude.

How do you know Hali is closer to what he will end up??? Give me a break, he is STILL learning.

Mecca
10-10-2006, 10:12 PM
It's not a "sad sack" attitude........Hali is older than Williams and was widely considered a close to finished product with not that much upside. Most people don't think Hali is going to improve that much from what he already is.....

JBucc
10-10-2006, 10:15 PM
I've never seen Mario Williams. I have seen Tamba. I'll take Tamba.

beer bacon
10-10-2006, 10:19 PM
Better get 10 sacks if he wants that.....cause I'm guessing guys like AJ Hawk will look like they had monster years when the year finishes.

Anderson for the Bears has something like five sacks already. I don't even know what round he was drafted in.

The Bad Guy
10-10-2006, 10:23 PM
....Mario Williams upside is so much greater, after 4-5 games I'd still take Williams Hali is alot more finished and closer to what he'll end up being where as Williams hasn't even scratched the surface yet.

This logic is beyond ****ing stupid.

OK, so Mario Williams blows balls, and Tamba has preformed very, very well so far.

So Tamba has played at a high level and you say he'll end up being what he is right now?

But Williams, who has sucked, is going to build up to a high level? A level I would say Hali is close to being on right now?

I'll take Hali any day of the week.

If Williams had a Chiefs helmet on and Hali had a Texans one on, you would probably say the opposite.

Halfcan
10-10-2006, 10:25 PM
It's not a "sad sack" attitude........Hali is older than Williams and was widely considered a close to finished product with not that much upside. Most people don't think Hali is going to improve that much from what he already is.....

Most people thought Hali was a reach to start with. Once again how can Most people guess after four games what is going to happen??

With the amount of $$ Mario is getting-he should be a finished product. Hali has been better against the run also.

The Bad Guy
10-10-2006, 10:26 PM
It's not a "sad sack" attitude........Hali is older than Williams and was widely considered a close to finished product with not that much upside. Most people don't think Hali is going to improve that much from what he already is.....

Most people didn't think Hali could beat any NFL tackle. Most people thought he was too small, not explosive enough, not fast enough.

Most people are retards.

I'd say he's largely responsible for this defensive turn around.

NaptownChief
10-10-2006, 10:26 PM
This logic is beyond ****ing stupid.

OK, so Mario Williams blows balls, and Tamba has preformed very, very well so far.

So Tamba has played at a high level and you say he'll end up being what he is right now?

But Williams, who has sucked, is going to build up to a high level? A level I would say Hali is close to being on right now?

I'll take Hali any day of the week.

If Williams had a Chiefs helmet on and Hali had a Texans one on, you would probably say the opposite.


Don't blame him...it is the same garbage the talking heads force feed so many year after year.

The question I always have for those that believe that is if a player has so much talent and upside why isn't it showing up? If you have all these impressive physical tools and two other NFL 1st round picks on the same D Line last year yet didn't dominate in college as much as Hali did in a better conference...You have to wonder why....the answer is usually heart and work ethic.

Halfcan
10-10-2006, 10:27 PM
I guess if you ask MOST people on this thread-who is better-only 2 votes went to Super Mario. One of them was yours.

NaptownChief
10-10-2006, 10:29 PM
It's early...it could easily turn into a Freeney or Peppers argument in the next year or two. But so far Hali has proven he belongs and is here to stay while Williams has proven nothing yet.

Mecca
10-10-2006, 10:30 PM
Mario Williams is playing for the ****ing Texans.....with nothing around him. He's blowing balls so hard he has 1 less sack than Hali man he really sucks.

I fully expect everyone here to vote for Hali seeing as you'd have thought he was god as many people wanted to draft him.

milkman
10-10-2006, 10:30 PM
It's not a "sad sack" attitude........Hali is older than Williams and was widely considered a close to finished product with not that much upside. Most people don't think Hali is going to improve that much from what he already is.....

How can a kid be considered close to a finished product when he hasn't played the game fo rmore than about 5, maybe 6 years.

But then Mario Williams has so much more to learn, in spite of the fact that he's played the game for twice that.

Experts are so full of shit, I'm surprised they don't leave track marks with every step.

Mecca
10-10-2006, 10:31 PM
Because some people are born with more natural talent than others.....

Miles
10-10-2006, 10:31 PM
It's early...it could easily turn into a Freeney or Peppers argument in the next year or two. But so far Hali has proven he belongs and is here to stay while Williams has proven nothing yet.

If anything Williams is showing he is the same as he was in college. Blowing up for a few plays and looking like something special and not much at all for the majority of plays.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-10-2006, 10:34 PM
It's early...it could easily turn into a Freeney or Peppers argument in the next year or two. But so far Hali has proven he belongs and is here to stay while Williams has proven nothing yet.

Except for the fact that Freeney is a complete liability against the run, and Peppers is at least decent against it. Tamba has shown he can be a complete d-end. Williams has shown he can be a terrible draft pick relative to the talent on the board at the time.

NaptownChief
10-10-2006, 10:34 PM
Mario Williams is playing for the ****ing Texans.....with nothing around him.


Well our DT's aren't exactly Stroud and Henderson that Hali is playing next to...

tk13
10-10-2006, 10:35 PM
Hali is the key to this defense. I was laughed at when I said Hali would be more important to this defense than Ty Law would be. Pass rush is always the key... and Hali has been fantastic.

And enough about upside, somebody took a giant Mel Kiper all over this thread. If anything, Hali didn't grow up playing football like these other guys... I don't think anyone is really qualified to make a statement like that.

Mecca
10-10-2006, 10:36 PM
Well our DT's aren't exactly Stroud and Henderson that Hali is playing next to...

Atleast the Chiefs have a few other players......who do the Texans have? Uh um Demeco Ryans? another rookie......um uh Dunta Robinson and um that's about it.

NaptownChief
10-10-2006, 10:36 PM
Except for the fact that Freeney is a complete liability against the run, and Peppers is at least decent against it.


Freeney has improved a bunch in that area...He was bad against it his first couple years but fairly adequate at this point.

Halfcan
10-10-2006, 10:36 PM
Because some people are born with more natural talent than others.....
ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

So now Mario was born with more talent?? Yep he had to survive wars, gangs, murder, moving to a different country, leaving his family-where as Tamba had an easy road and was probably labled a superstar his whole life.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-10-2006, 10:37 PM
Freeney has improved a bunch in that area...He was bad against it his first couple years but fairly adequate at this point.

Which is why they just got gashed against Tenn with him trying to tee off on Young the whole game ??

Mecca
10-10-2006, 10:37 PM
ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL

So now Mario was born with more talent?? Yep he had to survive wars, gangs, murder, moving to a different country, leaving his family-where as Tamba had an easy road and was probably labled a superstar his whole life.

Uh I don't think it's ever been a question if he had more talent. To be a #1 pick even top 5 pick your workouts and natural talent level has to be extremely high.

Halfcan
10-10-2006, 10:38 PM
Atleast the Chiefs have a few other players......who do the Texans have? Uh um Demeco Ryans? another rookie......um uh Dunta Robinson and um that's about it.

The Chiefs D, who you are picking to lose in other threads-suddenly is FILLED with talent when you are trying to defend some silly comments-time to call it a night-put the keyboard down and step away.

Mecca
10-10-2006, 10:39 PM
The Chiefs D, who you are picking to lose in other threads-suddenly is FILLED with talent when you are trying to defend some silly comments-time to call it a night-put the keyboard down and step away.

Compared to the Texans it is.......you need to uh get the contrast and compare here. I was comparing it to the Steelers there the Texans here, there is a difference.

I could litter this board with Reggie Bush threads seeing as 90% of this board said he was going to suck but I'm not doing that.....

Halfcan
10-10-2006, 10:41 PM
Uh I don't think it's ever been a question if he had more talent. To be a #1 pick even top 5 pick your workouts and natural talent level has to be extremely high.

and although he was the #1 pick he also has this HUGE upside because he was just born with talent. Even more upside than a guy picked way down the line and was called a REACH-but has outplayed him in every way.

I am not following ya.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-10-2006, 10:41 PM
Uh I don't think it's ever been a question if he had more talent. To be a #1 pick even top 5 pick your workouts and natural talent level has to be extremely high.

Measureables do not equate to football talent, they approximate it, and often those approximations are wildly wrong.

Regarding the second part of your statement, what about the Tony Mandariches and Leonard Davises of the world?? Great workouts, yeah, talent?? maybe, but probably not.

OnTheWarpath58
10-10-2006, 10:42 PM
Uh I don't think it's ever been a question if he had more talent. To be a #1 pick even top 5 pick your workouts and natural talent level has to be extremely high.

I guess that's why Ryan Sims dropped to #6?

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-10-2006, 10:43 PM
Compared to the Texans it is.......you need to uh get the contrast and compare here. I was comparing it to the Steelers there the Texans here, there is a difference.

I could litter this board with Reggie Bush threads seeing as 90% of this board said he was going to suck but I'm not doing that.....

what is Reggie Bush doing that Dave Meggett wouldn't have given an expanded role in an offense??

Mecca
10-10-2006, 10:44 PM
This thread should be made in 3 years not after 4 games.....if it took a few games to decide who was better all the people that railed on Reggie Bush and Matt Leinart on here would be considered really stupid.

Mecca
10-10-2006, 10:45 PM
what is Reggie Bush doing that Dave Meggett wouldn't have given an expanded role in an offense??

I seriously hope you are joking......I think Reggie Bush has more receptions than anyone on our team......

OnTheWarpath58
10-10-2006, 10:45 PM
what is Reggie Bush doing that Dave Meggett wouldn't have given an expanded role in an offense??

Hey!

Back off the "Next Gale Sayers"

He finally scored this week! Didn't you see the highlight?

The Bad Guy
10-10-2006, 10:45 PM
Mario Williams is playing for the ****ing Texans.....with nothing around him. He's blowing balls so hard he has 1 less sack than Hali man he really sucks.

I fully expect everyone here to vote for Hali seeing as you'd have thought he was god as many people wanted to draft him.

He does suck.

He was supposed to be a difference maker for the Texans. He was supposed to be Super Mario who turned a defense around.

He was supposed to be incredible immediately, which is why they passed on Reggie Bush.

He hasn't been. He's been terrible in the run game and he's been blocked at times with a TE.

I don't give a **** who wanted to draft Hali and who didn't. A lot of teams didn't want to draft Tom Brady either.

It doesn't shock me that you're so quick to defend other teams, while trying to put down the Chiefs in the process.

Miles
10-10-2006, 10:46 PM
what is Reggie Bush doing that Dave Meggett wouldn't have given an expanded role in an offense??

He is a lot bigger than someone like Megett.

The Bad Guy
10-10-2006, 10:47 PM
I seriously hope you are joking......I think Reggie Bush has more receptions than anyone on our team......

He has the most receptions in the NFL, but I bet you just couldn't resist taking another shot at the Chiefs in defending one of your several USC boyfriends.

JBucc
10-10-2006, 10:48 PM
Hey!

Back off the "Next Gale Sayers"

He finally scored this week! Didn't you see the highlight?When I read that I saw it as "Black Gale Sayer." My mind was totally blown there for a second.

Mecca
10-10-2006, 10:48 PM
He does suck.

He was supposed to be a difference maker for the Texans. He was supposed to be Super Mario who turned a defense around.

He was supposed to be incredible immediately, which is why they passed on Reggie Bush.

He hasn't been. He's been terrible in the run game and he's been blocked at times with a TE.

I don't give a **** who wanted to draft Hali and who didn't. A lot of teams didn't want to draft Tom Brady either.

It doesn't shock me that you're so quick to defend other teams, while trying to put down the Chiefs in the process.

.....I think this thread is dumb, the Chiefs never had a shot to pick Williams so I don't really consider it a put down to the Chiefs. Like I said it takes a few years not a few games to decide who did better.

NaptownChief
10-10-2006, 10:48 PM
Which is why they just got gashed against Tenn with him trying to tee off on Young the whole game ??


They get gashed by every running game that chooses to keep running it up the middle on their pitiful DT's...Travis Henry didn't even have to move out of the tackle box to get his 100 plus yards on Sunday if he didn't want to.

Demonpenz
10-10-2006, 10:48 PM
Tamba is an animal no doubt about that, but man mario williams and Jared allen would be awesome, but I would take given the question I know tamba can do. I will just take the door number 1 the 100 dollars. door number 2 may have a car or it may have an emu. who knows.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-10-2006, 10:49 PM
I seriously hope you are joking......I think Reggie Bush has more receptions than anyone on our team......

I actually watched a good portion of that game b/c I have Sunday Ticket and a vested fantasy interest. Trust me, those receptions were nothing special. He basically ran a circle route or sat down in the zone, caught a 5 yard pass, and fell down.

He had 11 catches....for 63 yards. There is nothing special about that at all...

Mecca
10-10-2006, 10:49 PM
He has the most receptions in the NFL, but I bet you just couldn't resist taking another shot at the Chiefs in defending one of your several USC boyfriends.

That's not a shot at the Chiefs either it's a shot at someone being stupid. The Chiefs never had a shot to pick these players, if the Chiefs had a shot to take Bush and didn't then yes I'd fully take a shot at the Chiefs for that.

tk13
10-10-2006, 10:50 PM
Tamba is an animal no doubt about that, but man mario williams and Jared allen would be awesome, but I would take given the question I know tamba can do. I will just take the door number 1 the 100 dollars. door number 2 may have a car or it may have an emu. who knows.
:spock:

JBucc
10-10-2006, 10:50 PM
Tamba is an animal no doubt about that, but man mario williams and Jared allen would be awesome, but I would take given the question I know tamba can do. I will just take the door number 1 the 100 dollars. door number 2 may have a car or it may have an emu. who knows.Oh, Demonpenz, you always describe it in a way that makes sense.

JBucc
10-10-2006, 10:51 PM
That's not a shot at the Chiefs either it's a shot at someone being stupid. The Chiefs never had a shot to pick these players, if the Chiefs had a shot to take Bush and didn't then yes I'd fully take a shot at the Chiefs for that.So.......you don't deny you have boyfriends?

KCFalcon59
10-10-2006, 10:51 PM
I have Bush on my fantasy team. He has done shit till this past week. No rushing yards. He has gotten some receptions but they have amounted to shit. I am holding out hope he can be a real running back.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-10-2006, 10:52 PM
They get gashed by every running game that chooses to keep running it up the middle on their pitiful DT's...Travis Henry didn't even have to move out of the tackle box to get his 100 plus yards on Sunday if he didn't want to.

Their DT's suck, but the ends don't help much...

Someone said it as well as I could earlier...the easiest thing to do with the Colts is run a delay..their DE's will run themselves out of the play, and their DTs will get blown up.

Mecca
10-10-2006, 10:52 PM
So.......you don't deny you have boyfriends?

.......Go back to your boyfriends Mustain and McFadden........

Demonpenz
10-10-2006, 10:53 PM
I actually watched a good portion of that game b/c I have Sunday Ticket and a vested fantasy interest. Trust me, those receptions were nothing special. He basically ran a circle route or sat down in the zone, caught a 5 yard pass, and fell down.

He had 11 catches....for 63 yards. There is nothing special about that at all...


So you mean he hung on to the ball? better than S.Porkme

Mecca
10-10-2006, 10:53 PM
I have Bush on my fantasy team. He has done shit till this past week. No rushing yards. He has gotten some receptions but they have amounted to shit. I am holding out hope he can be a real running back.

I hope you didn't pick him early........McAllister has a big contract so obviosly they're both going to see touches.

Demonpenz
10-10-2006, 10:54 PM
Ok i have been drinking, but mario williams would be the "whats behind the door" and tamba would be the 100 dollars in lets make a deal. behind the door could be a brand new chevette! Or an a bunch of farm animals

JBucc
10-10-2006, 10:55 PM
.......Go back to your boyfriends Mustain and McFadden........My boyfriends could kick your boyfriends asses

Mecca
10-10-2006, 10:56 PM
My boyfriends could kick your boyfriends asses

The Scoreboard doesn't agree......

The Bad Guy
10-10-2006, 10:57 PM
Tamba is an animal no doubt about that, but man mario williams and Jared allen would be awesome, but I would take given the question I know tamba can do. I will just take the door number 1 the 100 dollars. door number 2 may have a car or it may have an emu. who knows.

Plus, Mario Williams got a 6-year, 54 million dollar deal with 28 mill guaranteed.

I doubt heavily that Hali even got 1/4th of the deal that Williams received.

JBucc
10-10-2006, 10:59 PM
The Scoreboard doesn't agree......****ing Felix Jones.

Has John David Booty been as good as he was in that game? He was killer accurate.

banyon
10-10-2006, 11:00 PM
.....I think this thread is dumb, the Chiefs never had a shot to pick Williams so I don't really consider it a put down to the Chiefs. Like I said it takes a few years not a few games to decide who did better.

Maybe you're dumb. nlm

Anyway, Why view it as some kind of second guess on the Chiefs ond not an indictment of the Texans? All the talking heads are asking whether the Texans made a mistake not taking Reggie Bush, I thought I'd just take it a step further.

Of course you are right... terrible thread. Didn't generate any posts at all. We might as well keep talking about poop.

Crashride
10-10-2006, 11:00 PM
Tamba is a beast and has PLENTY of room to go...its not like what were seeing is gonna be the best he has to offer. Just look at the stats over the last 5 games. The man had a sack 1 forced fumble and 7 tackles in the arizona game alone. Rookie of the year written on him if he keeps up this pace and has a few huge games...the end

banyon
10-10-2006, 11:00 PM
Darko Milicic still has a higher upside than Carmelo Anthony and Dwyane Wade.

Demonpenz
10-10-2006, 11:01 PM
I thought tamba was a reach, but he was right in one aspect. If you never give up on a play you are going to create havoc. I love the way him and jared allen come back 12 yards down the field looking to **** someone up. They are going to cause some fumbles. There is going t be lots of turnovers between DJ stripping balls and jared allen and tamba just never giving up. I woulnd't be surprised if tamba picks a ball off real loon because he is alway busting ass to tipped balls.If we had one stud in the mddle we would be up there with the great D's in the league. I am gladly eating my crow on the tamba shit i was talking (even though lots of it was tounge and cheek lexicon)

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-10-2006, 11:02 PM
Say what you will about the talking heads, but Salisbury made a couple of good points last week

He said he'd rather have Hali over Williams because he plays with a motor, and he acts like he cares. Williams hasn't shown either one of those attributes.

Also, Williams first sack wasn't exactly an LT special. IIRC, the QB was already on the ground and he basically rolled on him. BFD.

OnTheWarpath58
10-10-2006, 11:02 PM
Darko Milicic still has a higher upside than Carmelo Anthony and Dwyane Wade.


ROFL ROFL

Mecca
10-10-2006, 11:05 PM
Darko Milicic still has a higher upside than Carmelo Anthony and Dwyane Wade.

It's also been several years since that draft.......

I was the first one to say not taking Bush was stupid, if you wanna lay it on the Texans for being dumb.

tk13
10-10-2006, 11:07 PM
Sam Bowie is gonna pan out any day now. You just watch. You'll see.

Crashride
10-10-2006, 11:37 PM
I thought tamba was a reach, but he was right in one aspect. If you never give up on a play you are going to create havoc. I love the way him and jared allen come back 12 yards down the field looking to **** someone up. They are going to cause some fumbles. There is going t be lots of turnovers between DJ stripping balls and jared allen and tamba just never giving up. I woulnd't be surprised if tamba picks a ball off real loon because he is alway busting ass to tipped balls.If we had one stud in the mddle we would be up there with the great D's in the league. I am gladly eating my crow on the tamba shit i was talking (even though lots of it was tounge and cheek lexicon)

The beautiful thing is...were already up there with the best defenses in the league...were number 4 baby

Logical
10-10-2006, 11:54 PM
Since someone else was offered, I choose J. Peppers :p

Fruit Ninja
10-11-2006, 12:22 AM
for Mario bieng number 1 and getting all that money, he sure hasnt shown the heart. Tamba is just a beast. I never see the guy give up.He's always running. Seems to be pretty damn good against the run.

Whats great though is Allen is freaking awesome against the run for bieng a lil on the light side for a DE.

ChiefaRoo
10-11-2006, 12:46 AM
Tamba isn't huge but he's quick and his lower body strength and leverage is very impressive. He generates a lot of power from his glutes and legs. No wonder he had a butt muscle problem a few weeks ago.

Direckshun
10-11-2006, 03:04 AM
Uh I don't think it's ever been a question if he had more talent. To be a #1 pick even top 5 pick your workouts and natural talent level has to be extremely high.
Your logic eats itself.

"He has more natural talent to be a top 5 pick."

Why?

"Because he was a top 5 pick."

The Bad Guy
10-11-2006, 04:41 AM
Say what you will about the talking heads, but Salisbury made a couple of good points last week

He said he'd rather have Hali over Williams because he plays with a motor, and he acts like he cares. Williams hasn't shown either one of those attributes.

Also, Williams first sack wasn't exactly an LT special. IIRC, the QB was already on the ground and he basically rolled on him. BFD.

But, but, but...

Mecca said he's going to be better because he has "upside" and was a top 5 pick.

Braincase
10-11-2006, 05:34 AM
TOMBAUGH!

http://www.phobos.pcm.hr/grafika/clyde_pluton.jpg

morphius
10-11-2006, 05:54 AM
Uh I don't think it's ever been a question if he had more talent. To be a #1 pick even top 5 pick your workouts and natural talent level has to be extremely high.
Does better workout really equal more talent?

Of course I keep forgetting what a great tackle Hali is lined up next to that is making him look better then Williams.

Rookie of the year for Hali is a bit homer at this point, but it seems you base way too much on sacks as well. Experts guessing that Hali mean nothing, as they also thought DJ couldn't make any impact in the NFL and if they were right there wouldn't be any undrafted rookies in the league.

Chief Nute
10-11-2006, 06:49 AM
I loved the pick when we made it, and he has done nothing to make me regret loving it. I got to see Tamba play all the time living in Big 10 country, and he was a pure stud.

milkman
10-11-2006, 06:58 AM
Say what you will about the talking heads, but Salisbury made a couple of good points last week

He said he'd rather have Hali over Williams because he plays with a motor, and he acts like he cares. Williams hasn't shown either one of those attributes.

Also, Williams first sack wasn't exactly an LT special. IIRC, the QB was already on the ground and he basically rolled on him. BFD.

The thing about that motor, that energy, is that it's infectious, and it seems to have spread through this defense already.

Sometimes the impact a player brings to a team is more than just the talent, the ability, that he has.

Hound333
10-11-2006, 07:05 AM
I would rather have Hali for attitude. I would rather have Hali for his motor. I would rather have Hali for the impact of his story. I would rather have Hali because of the price tag. I would just rather have Hali. Mario Williams will end up being a mistake on the level of Ryan Leaf.

the Talking Can
10-11-2006, 07:51 AM
Mario Williams is playing for the ****ing Texans.....with nothing around him. He's blowing balls so hard he has 1 less sack than Hali man he really sucks.

I fully expect everyone here to vote for Hali seeing as you'd have thought he was god as many people wanted to draft him.

ahh yes, the "you all are sheep and I'm a genious martyr" routine...

stop sucking your own dick, dude

the Talking Can
10-11-2006, 07:52 AM
Better get 10 sacks if he wants that.....cause I'm guessing guys like AJ Hawk will look like they had monster years when the year finishes.

Hali has 2.5 sacks through 4 games....you do the math

banyon
10-11-2006, 07:55 AM
It's also been several years since that draft.......

Yeah, but the point is people have been saying that since draft day, too. It was obvious that Carmelo would be an All-Star caliber player and why you would waste your pick on a project with "upside" at #2 was beyond anyone back then too.

Easy 6
10-11-2006, 07:59 AM
T2

Simplex3
10-11-2006, 08:25 AM
I've never seen Mario Williams. I have seen Tamba. I'll take Tamba.
Nobody else has seen Williams since the combine either. They may never see him again.

Give me the guy that does it on the field over the guy who shows up in the NFL Indianapolis Freak Show any day.

boogblaster
10-11-2006, 10:20 AM
Hali is the better of the two..He'll show you in the years to come..simply by his speed..plus a great motor.....

Mr. Laz
10-11-2006, 10:20 AM
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to make that call.

Tamba is used to working hard playing football

Mario is used to dominating without having to work.


if Mario learns to work then he is clearly better ..... but if he doesn't then Tamba is the better choice.

Brock
10-11-2006, 10:34 AM
if Mario learns to work then he is clearly better ..... but if he doesn't then Tamba is the better choice.

Yes. Hali was ready to play right out of the box. Williams, not so much.

Kclee
10-11-2006, 10:40 AM
Hali was ready to play right out of the box.


So you are saying he was born ready. :)

Basileus777
10-11-2006, 10:53 AM
I'd take Williams on potential. Players with tools like Mario are too rare.

noa
10-11-2006, 10:58 AM
I think this is a tough question because Williams is always going to be haunted by the fact that he was drafted ahead of Reggie Bush against popular wisdom. That's got to have an effect on his psyche. If he had been drafted later to a team where expectations weren't so high and he had some support on the line with him, maybe he'd be playing better.

Bowser
10-11-2006, 10:59 AM
Ask again in four years.

DJ's left nut
10-11-2006, 11:30 AM
I think some people are overstating the expectations for Williams.

Kubiak said when they got him that the guy was a project, extremely raw. Nobody expected him to turn around the defense.

As for the question, I'd rather have Hali at the 21st than Williams at the 1. Hali is a much better value relative to his draft position.

For this season, I'd rather have Hali as well.

However, if both were put on the FA market at the end of the year and we could only sign one of them to a 5 year deal, I'd take Williams. The kid is no Courtney Brown, he's just really raw. Yeah, he's been blown up by TEs, but it wasn't his motor that got him planted, it was his leverage and technique. He used the fact that he was a freak athlete to blow the hell out of guys in College, now he needs some serious coaching up in the Pros. His College coaches seemed to be afraid of messing him up b/c they certainly didn't do much to advance his game. I've not seen anything in the games I've seen him play to suggest he has a heart or motivation issue, he's just not getting away with the stuff he got away with in College and occasionally he'll get frustrated.

I don't see any problem with the analysis that Williams has a higher upside. Speaking strictly in terms of athletic ability, he is superior to Hali. However, Hali was coached by some very good coaches at Penn State so his game was far more advanced than Williams, so he's more capable of making plays in the NFL now.

If you give Williams the coaching that Hali has gotten, he'll be a better DE in the future. His physical attributes and athletic ability give him a higher ceiling. You've gotta admit, while he's raw, Williams is one of the most athletic DE prospects in years. I know, being an athlete isn't everything, but give a coach higher quality clay and he'll build you a better statue.

I also think that Williams is the only one of the two that would be capable of making a switch to RE at the professional level. Hali's burst still isn't great, he's a motor guy. Well your LTs in the NFL (at least the ones worth anything) will be able to counter that a little better than the RTs, who are generally just not as good.

WilliamTheIrish
10-11-2006, 12:15 PM
Darko Milicic still has a higher upside than Carmelo Anthony and Dwyane Wade.

Post of the F'ing thread....

KC-TBB
10-11-2006, 12:21 PM
Speculating...THIS IS FUN!

Chiefnj
10-11-2006, 12:46 PM
Most GMs are probably kicking themselves for not taking 5th round pick Mark Anderson - the DE from the Bears who has nine tackles, 5 sacks, one forced fumble, one fumble recoveryand one pass defended

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-11-2006, 12:51 PM
Let's all remember that Mario was picked for his signability, not his freakish nature.

GoHuge
10-11-2006, 01:20 PM
I don't know if anybody has mentioned this or not but Tamba was a hell of alot cheaper. So far more bang for the buck. We'll see how it plays out down the road. Regardless of Mario vs Tamba biggest f**k up of all time for the Texans not taking Bush. Singability shouldn't be a factor, especially with a guy like Bush. With the #1 pick you take the best player available! Hell even the Royals are starting to do that.

L.A. Chieffan
10-11-2006, 01:20 PM
I think the reason most people were skeptical of taking Hali was the previous track record of DL guys we drafted the past few years. I mean cmon, to cut your first pick in the draft (siavii) after two seasons? Thats BS. BTW JAX picked up ahmad carroll.
But anyways, alot of these draft 'experts' were wrong. They were wrong about Allen and theyre wrong about Tamba.

Logical
10-11-2006, 01:51 PM
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too early to make that call.

Tamba is used to working hard playing football

Mario is used to dominating without having to work.


if Mario learns to work then he is clearly better ..... but if he doesn't then Tamba is the better choice.People tend to forget Peppers did not dominate his first season either. I agree it is far too early to make this call.

Kclee
10-11-2006, 02:08 PM
People tend to forget Peppers did not dominate his first season either. I agree it is far too early to make this call.


He had 12 sacks in 12 games, and I think an INT for a TD. Yeah, not very dominant.

Edit:

I looked it up, no TD, but he did have an INT. Plus 5 forced fumbles.

CupidStunt
10-11-2006, 02:11 PM
Let's all remember that Mario was picked for his signability, not his freakish nature.

Partly, perhaps, but not fully. You're not naive enough to believe that.

HolmeZz
10-11-2006, 02:55 PM
Tamba is an animal no doubt about that, but man mario williams and Jared allen would be awesome, but I would take given the question I know tamba can do. I will just take the door number 1 the 100 dollars. door number 2 may have a car or it may have an emu. who knows.

I bet you could sell the emu to someone for $100 if you really had to.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-11-2006, 03:03 PM
Partly, perhaps, but not fully. You're not naive enough to believe that.


The Texans signed him because they were afraid of a protracted hold out with Bush, not because they thought he was the better player. Bush couldn't really hold out on New Orleans for the money he wanted b/c of the PR ramifications. Williams was just the guy to step in and fill the void, and wrongly so, for that matter. If they wanted to pick the guy who could help their team the most, they should have traded down to 4 and drafted Tha Brick. Does he have top five talent? Yeah, but his desire has always been a ?. Ferguson would protect Carr and by proxy improve both Johnson and a healthy (at the time) Domanick Davis.

It was a cheap move, and an incompetent one.

CupidStunt
10-11-2006, 03:15 PM
You speak as if you have a lick of credibility with NFL transactions.

Easy 6
10-11-2006, 03:18 PM
The Texans signed him because they were afraid of a protracted hold out with Bush, not because they thought he was the better player. Bush couldn't really hold out on New Orleans for the money he wanted b/c of the PR ramifications. Williams was just the guy to step in and fill the void, and wrongly so, for that matter. If they wanted to pick the guy who could help their team the most, they should have traded down to 4 and drafted Tha Brick. Does he have top five talent? Yeah, but his desire has always been a ?. Ferguson would protect Carr and by proxy improve both Johnson and a healthy (at the time) Domanick Davis.

It was a cheap move, and an incompetent one.
It sounds like a lick of common sense to me.

Basileus777
10-11-2006, 03:20 PM
The Texans signed him because they were afraid of a protracted hold out with Bush, not because they thought he was the better player. Bush couldn't really hold out on New Orleans for the money he wanted b/c of the PR ramifications. Williams was just the guy to step in and fill the void, and wrongly so, for that matter. If they wanted to pick the guy who could help their team the most, they should have traded down to 4 and drafted Tha Brick. Does he have top five talent? Yeah, but his desire has always been a ?. Ferguson would protect Carr and by proxy improve both Johnson and a healthy (at the time) Domanick Davis.

It was a cheap move, and an incompetent one.

The money was probably a factor, but the importance of a DE compared with a RB was also a factor. Neither Mario nor Bush have lived up to their draft status right now, so saying it was an incompetent move is premature.

Tribal Warfare
10-11-2006, 03:26 PM
I think the reason most people were skeptical of taking Hali was the previous track record of DL guys we drafted the past few years.


Nope, I said this way back in March the reason why Hali slipped was because of his average measurables given on his Pro Day. People were too wrapped up in that stuff instead what they are able to do on the field.

Thig Lyfe
10-11-2006, 03:31 PM
Tamba. Tamba Tamba Tamba.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-11-2006, 03:35 PM
The money was probably a factor, but the importance of a DE compared with a RB was also a factor. Neither Mario nor Bush have lived up to their draft status right now, so saying it was an incompetent move is premature.

The incompetent move wasn't taking a franchise left tackle when you could have gotten him at #4, given how much you have already invested in your QB and WR, and picked up an extra 3rd rounder in the process, at least.

GoodDaySir!
10-11-2006, 03:38 PM
This will be fun to bump in a year or two.

Crashride
10-11-2006, 03:38 PM
Guys Guys were changing the subject, all that matters is Hali is producing NOW. The man has a motor and will continue to be a force. Last time I checked Allen is the number 3 DE in the league and Hali is number 8 according to cbssportsline.com. Mario isnt near them, or in the top 50 at that. Proof -http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/playerrankings/regularseason/DL and thats all that matters. A first round pick shouldnt take years to develop if hes truley talented. He should at least be putting up some numbers

Basileus777
10-11-2006, 03:40 PM
The incompetent move wasn't taking a franchise left tackle when you could have gotten him at #4, given how much you have already invested in your QB and WR, and picked up an extra 3rd rounder in the process, at least.

Mario is a much better prospect than Ferguson, but yes the Texans needed a LT much more. But if the Texans had traded down from #1 to #4 and only gotton a 3rd rounder, they would have been mocked for making one of the dumbest trades in draft history. People would blast them for giving up Bush for a 3rd round pick. A team would have needed to give up more than a 3rd to move up to #1, and losing that much value was not something any front office would consider. We don't know if anyone was willing to give up the necessary value to trade up. Its a false assumption that anyone was willing to make such a trade.

Easy 6
10-11-2006, 05:08 PM
This will be fun to bump in a year or two.
Yes indeed!!!...it should form a very solid cyber-brick with which to pound out your av's eyes and feed it to some primitive south american tribe.............Tamba2 = :Rader: , Barrio = lambs

htismaqe
10-11-2006, 05:20 PM
Antonio Cromartie is the shiznit. You're all idiots.

Mr. Laz
10-11-2006, 06:18 PM
Antonio Cromartie is the shiznit. You're all idiots.Undersized and slow, Tamba Hali was a huge reach...

just go to the store and buy some tampons for yourself already.