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View Full Version : Now that the season is over, it's time to bench Wesley...


htismaqe
10-15-2006, 06:21 PM
Dumbass basically spotted them 14 points.

Time to let Pollard learn on the job...

GoodDaySir!
10-15-2006, 06:22 PM
Knee-jerk much?

morphius
10-15-2006, 06:23 PM
I'd put knight on the bench as well, he was off his guy a lot today.

JBucc
10-15-2006, 06:24 PM
I'd say bench Knight too but Page sucked ass today.

Count Zarth
10-15-2006, 06:25 PM
How did he spot them 14 points?

Law is responsible for the first 7.

The second one I couldn't tell who was supposed to be covering the slot. Was it Wesley? If so, blame Gunther. Why would you put a safety one-on-one with a WR?

B2chiefsfan
10-15-2006, 06:25 PM
I wouldn't say that the season is a total loss yet.....but..........I think it's time to sit Wesley.

Bring on the "BONECRUSHER"!!!!

Rain Man
10-15-2006, 06:25 PM
Page was a disaster today. An absolute disaster.

Deberg_1990
10-15-2006, 06:26 PM
But but........he has like 180 INT's in his career.........hahaha


Where do i begin...all of this teams weaknesses were exposed today. When it rains it pours...

Suspect Safey play......for every good play they make, they make 3 or 4 bad ones. Liabilities in pass coverage

No interior defensive line pass rush. Horrible....just horrible

our offensive tackles suck....enough said

crappy tackling...our old ugly friend reared its head again.....over 200 yards rushing allowed?? I have to blame Gunther....honeymoon is over..dont let the door hit ya on the way out dude...

Our current QB is limited....very limited...


Too many holes to overcome this year....hopefully, Herm can fix it in the off-season. We are stuck with what we got this season.......

Rain Man
10-15-2006, 06:28 PM
How did he spot them 14 points?

Law is responsible for the first 7.

The second one I couldn't tell who was supposed to be covering the slot. Was it Wesley? If so, blame Gunther. Why would you put a safety one-on-one with a WR?

The screwup on the touchdown to Ward where no one covered him in the end zone was either Ty Law's or Jarrad Page's fault. My money would be on Page.

The touchdown where the guy was wide open and then Page ran up and bumped into the guy with his arms at his side was Page's fault. I'm not sure who blew the coverage, but Page would've easily made the tackle if he had wrapped up. I'm worried that Page may have those Barbie arms that don't bend at the elbows.

TrickyNicky
10-15-2006, 06:28 PM
On the second TD the ball is in the air and he wasn't looking for it because he bought the run fake, he stands there, the ball goes over his head and Page hits (if you could call it a hit) and falls down as the receiver bolts to the end zone. Maybe Wesley thought he couldn't make up the ground or wasn't paying attention but it just looked like a lazy play.

htismaqe
10-15-2006, 06:28 PM
Knee-jerk much?

ROFL

Yeah, I came to the conclusion that Wesley sucks after today's game. Him giving up 60+ yard TD's every game for the last 5 years had nothing to do with it.

Guru
10-15-2006, 06:31 PM
Dumbass basically spotted them 14 points.

Time to let Pollard learn on the job...


Hell, we had to wait for the season to be over to bench him? That is 5 games longer than it should have taken.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-15-2006, 06:32 PM
The second TD was either Wesley or Gun's fault. Wesley just dumped him off after about 10 yards and then Roethlisbum hit Washington and Page love tapped him.

At no point should a former SS be on a WR, and when he did, he just dumped him off.

htismaqe
10-15-2006, 06:33 PM
Page was a disaster today. An absolute disaster.

If you're talking about failing to wrap up, yeah it was bad. But he was coming from the opposite side of the field to make a play in WESLEY'S ZONE.

blueballs
10-15-2006, 06:34 PM
Gun has benched him before
maybe twice

htismaqe
10-15-2006, 06:35 PM
The screwup on the touchdown to Ward where no one covered him in the end zone was either Ty Law's or Jarrad Page's fault. My money would be on Page.

The touchdown where the guy was wide open and then Page ran up and bumped into the guy with his arms at his side was Page's fault. I'm not sure who blew the coverage, but Page would've easily made the tackle if he had wrapped up. I'm worried that Page may have those Barbie arms that don't bend at the elbows.

The touchdown to Ward happened when the inside man (TE maybe?) ran a quick in and Wesley WENT WITH HIM. Law has outside responsibility.

The poor tackling by Page was Page's fault. The guy was wide open because Wesley bit on the play fake and wasn't in his zone.

This is Cover 2 ZONE. Wesley is supposed to play the backside, behind Law. Both plays happened because Wesley chased motion or a fake instead of staying in his zone.

htismaqe
10-15-2006, 06:36 PM
How did he spot them 14 points?

Law is responsible for the first 7.

The second one I couldn't tell who was supposed to be covering the slot. Was it Wesley? If so, blame Gunther. Why would you put a safety one-on-one with a WR?

This cover 2 ZONE. Wesley was responsible for both plays because he didn't stay in his zone.

Bob Dole
10-15-2006, 06:39 PM
Bob Dole blames Eric Warfield.

Rain Man
10-15-2006, 06:40 PM
The touchdown to Ward happened when the inside man (TE maybe?) ran a quick in and Wesley WENT WITH HIM. Law has outside responsibility.

The poor tackling by Page was Page's fault. The guy was wide open because Wesley bit on the play fake and wasn't in his zone.

This is Cover 2 ZONE. Wesley is supposed to play the backside, behind Law. Both plays happened because Wesley chased motion or a fake instead of staying in his zone.

I'd like to see a replay of it, because that guy was so wide open I'd wonder if Wesley was assigned somewhere else or blitzing or something. Even if he had bit, he still would've been within 20 yards, I would think.

Deberg_1990
10-15-2006, 06:42 PM
The touchdown to Ward happened when the inside man (TE maybe?) ran a quick in and Wesley WENT WITH HIM. Law has outside responsibility.

The poor tackling by Page was Page's fault. The guy was wide open because Wesley bit on the play fake and wasn't in his zone.

This is Cover 2 ZONE. Wesley is supposed to play the backside, behind Law. Both plays happened because Wesley chased motion or a fake instead of staying in his zone.

But is all this correctable as Herm loves to say?? I highy doubt it with current personel

htismaqe
10-15-2006, 06:43 PM
I'd like to see a replay of it, because that guy was so wide open I'd wonder if Wesley was assigned somewhere else or blitzing or something. Even if he had bit, he still would've been within 20 yards, I would think.

Wesley went man-to-man on the slot man, who ran a crossing route. Wesley followed him right across the field, vacating his zone which is where Ward was when he caught the TD...

the Talking Can
10-15-2006, 06:45 PM
Wesley dogs it on plays when he isn't within range...I saw it again today. Unacceptable.

We also have street trash for DTs. No good defense has shitty DTs.

htismaqe
10-15-2006, 06:45 PM
But is all this correctable as Herm loves to say?? I highy doubt it with current personel

Pollard and Page are the answer. Unfortunately, they need time to learn...

B_Ambuehl
10-15-2006, 07:36 PM
The zone shifts to where the quarterback looks. Those 2 safeties are responsible for an entire half of the field. Without a pass rush they really can't be supermen. That was really just a good offensive play call against what they knew would be a cover 2 defense. The pump fake to the RIGHT draws the safeties to the right...the run fake draws them up...then boom......the receiver is wide open right where he's supposed to be....and the safety is exactly where they thought he'd be. The problem is the defensive line (particularly the tackles) more often then not doesn't get to the quarterback so offenses can run scripted stuff like that against the base cover 2. It has been there for opposing offenses all season long.

A team like chicago would've been all over the quarterback before he'd ever have time to pull something like that off....cuz they get to the quarterback.

Deberg_1990
10-15-2006, 07:46 PM
The problem is the defensive line (particularly the tackles) more often then not doesn't get to the quarterback so offenses can run scripted stuff like that against the base cover 2. It has been there for opposing offenses all season long.

.

Then why do we continue to run the cover 2 then?? Why dont we blitz more with the linebackers?? Everyone knows our DT's suck, so why do we continue to try and fit a square peg in a round hole????

Toad
10-15-2006, 08:33 PM
On the 2nd TD, Law checked off the reciever to the safety behind him. That safety was Page at the time. The cameras even showed Law "advising" Page on the bench after the play.

I think it's fairly safe to say the entire stock of safties sucked today. But yes, Wesley specifically played like crap. He had been playing pretty well this year - up till this game. He was out of position virtually the whole game. It seems like he reverted back to the last couple of years in one game.

I do agree that Page and Pollard are the way to go in the future, but they are green as evidenced today. It will be interesting to see at what point Herm makes the decision to forgoe experience (Wesley/Knight) with youth and speed (Page and Pollard). I don't think it will be soon. You can count on Herm saying something like, 'One game does not a season make. We had been playing some pretty good D - 4th in the NFL. We will put this game behind us with no changes on D this week.'

Rain Man
10-15-2006, 08:36 PM
I think that if we get eliminated from the playoff race, we'll see Page and Pollard starting.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-15-2006, 08:37 PM
We had to give up over 500 yards of offense today. There is no way we are even sniffing the top 12 at this point.

jspchief
10-15-2006, 08:39 PM
Wesley and Page were both bad today.
Page was a freakin staute on that TD when Law let the reciever go (because of the zone coverage). And apparently his arms were amputated before the game so hecould only try to tackle by running into guys and falling down.

Wesley was his usual self. Getting burnt in coverage, then celebrating a big hit after giving up a 9 yard run on first down.

petegz28
10-15-2006, 08:44 PM
I loved how Wesley let his guy go right by him as he was watching the QB for the second Pitt TD. If your saftety lets a guy go then who in the hell is left to cover???

Count Zarth
10-15-2006, 08:46 PM
We had to give up over 500 yards of offense today. There is no way we are even sniffing the top 12 at this point.

This just balances out the 49er game. :shake:

Deberg_1990
10-15-2006, 08:48 PM
This just balances out the 49er game. :shake:

Yep, perfectly mediorce once again.......sigh...


Thanks Gunther!

Halfcan
10-15-2006, 09:02 PM
That hit by GWes was solid. He has played pretty well this year.

htismaqe
10-16-2006, 08:04 AM
The zone shifts to where the quarterback looks. Those 2 safeties are responsible for an entire half of the field. Without a pass rush they really can't be supermen. That was really just a good offensive play call against what they knew would be a cover 2 defense. The pump fake to the RIGHT draws the safeties to the right...the run fake draws them up...then boom......the receiver is wide open right where he's supposed to be....and the safety is exactly where they thought he'd be. The problem is the defensive line (particularly the tackles) more often then not doesn't get to the quarterback so offenses can run scripted stuff like that against the base cover 2. It has been there for opposing offenses all season long.

A team like chicago would've been all over the quarterback before he'd ever have time to pull something like that off....cuz they get to the quarterback.

The lack of pass rush is exascerbated by the fact that Greg Wesley has the field awareness of a Pee Wee football player...

Chiefnj
10-16-2006, 08:15 AM
I'm pretty sure they broke down Ward's TD on ESPN and it was Page who blew the coverage.

jspchief
10-16-2006, 08:18 AM
I'm pretty sure they broke down Ward's TD on ESPN and it was Page who blew the coverage.It was. He stood there like a damn statue. Law pulled off because his zone was the corner. Page should have been falling into the area where Ward was wide open.

I don't remember if it was play-action, but for whatever reason Page was frozen.

Chiefnj
10-16-2006, 08:20 AM
It was. He stood there like a damn statue. Law pulled off because his zone was the corner. Page should have been falling into the area where Ward was wide open.

I don't remember if it was play-action, but for whatever reason Page was frozen.

He followed a different receiver/TE in on a curl pattern and didn't go deep.

He's young. He'll learn.

Kyle401
10-16-2006, 08:21 AM
Putting Pollard and Page in at safety together would certainly ensure that the season is over. Personally, I would like to see how we play against "the best team not to make the playoffs last year" before writing this season off and playing for picks.

htismaqe
10-16-2006, 08:21 AM
Wesley followed the slot WR across the field to the inside. I watched again last night. Are we playing man under?

htismaqe
10-16-2006, 08:23 AM
He followed a different receiver/TE in on a curl pattern and didn't go deep.

He's young. He'll learn.

So it was page that followed the drag and not Wesley?

scott free
10-16-2006, 08:29 AM
Yep, perfectly mediorce once again.......sigh...


Thanks Gunther!
I think after a showing like this that ultimate blame go to coaches to dude, but there were blown coverages left n right and our DT's got smoked all day leaving our LB's vulnerable.

jspchief
10-16-2006, 08:32 AM
So it was page that followed the drag and not Wesley?I don't think so. Page just stood there.

I'm pulling it up on Tivo to double check

jspchief
10-16-2006, 08:39 AM
After rewatching it, it's clear that the biggest error was Page. He did chase the curling TE, but he chased him right into Wesley's zone. He should have let the TE go, relying on Wesley to cover that area, and kept to his side of the field.

I also question Law's role in the play. He released to the outside deep zone, but it was clear there was no one in that area. Ward was the only wideout on that side, and the TE coming across short was blanketed by DJ. Maybe the zone coverage is strict enough that Law isn't allowed to recognize that and adjust... I'm not sure.

htismaqe
10-16-2006, 08:39 AM
OK, thanks.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to give Page a free pass. But he's a 7th-round rookie.

Wesley is a seasoned veteran who's been starting for years.

jspchief
10-16-2006, 08:43 AM
OK, thanks.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to give Page a free pass. But he's a 7th-round rookie.

Wesley is a seasoned veteran who's been starting for years.He is a rookie. But if we've determined he's worthy of starting in the NFL, I don't see that as an acceptable excuse.

Page played bad all day. I don't know if Knight would have done better in those situations or not. He may not have had the speed to get to Washington on the tackle that Page blew, but he probably would have covered his zone better on that Ward TD.

And Wesley played terrible as usual. One big hit after allowing a 9 yard run makes half the morons on this BB think he's good, while they are too stupid to recognize that he let Washington run free on that long pass.

htismaqe
10-16-2006, 08:46 AM
I'm not saying at all that there's an acceptable excuse for the way Page played.

I'm saying he's a rookie because it means he has the room to IMPROVE.

Wesley is simply not going to improve at this point. He's bad and he's going to stay bad.

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-16-2006, 08:47 AM
Greg Wesley should be cut, plain and simple.

The guy is an abomination.

htismaqe
10-16-2006, 08:52 AM
Greg Wesley should be cut, plain and simple.

The guy is an abomination.

Yep. I said it 4 years ago when GRob was here -- Wesley doesn't have the awareness or intelligence to play Cover 2 zone coverage.

Reerun_KC
10-16-2006, 08:54 AM
How did he spot them 14 points?

Law is responsible for the first 7.

The second one I couldn't tell who was supposed to be covering the slot. Was it Wesley? If so, blame Gunther. Why would you put a safety one-on-one with a WR?


why put a safety on a wr?

Lets see, Pittsburg's freaky hair safety totally shut down Eddie "no hands" Kennison yesterday!

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-16-2006, 08:57 AM
Yep. I said it 4 years ago when GRob was here -- Wesley doesn't have the awareness or intelligence to play Cover 2 zone coverage.

It's true. You can have all the tools in the world, (and he doesn't) and without a good football IQ, it doesn't mean shit at the NFL level (see Leaf, Ryan).

scott free
10-16-2006, 08:57 AM
Yep. I said it 4 years ago when GRob was here -- Wesley doesn't have the awareness or intelligence to play Cover 2 zone coverage.
Agreed. Wesley is an in the box safety, he has decent hands but consistently gives up the big play.

htismaqe
10-16-2006, 08:57 AM
why put a safety on a wr?

Lets see, Pittsburg's freaky hair safety totally shut down Eddie "no hands" Kennison yesterday!

That matchup favored Polamalu largely because KC's QB and OL can't get the ball to Kennison. Matching up a S on a WR is not a good matchup for the defense, even if the S is Troy Polamalu.

That being said, the purpose of playing zone coverage is to avoid matchups altogether. Each person is responsible for a portion of the field. The problem is that good zone defense requires DISCIPLINE and Wesley doesn't have any...

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-16-2006, 09:00 AM
Greg Wesley plays defense like a bad Madden player. He blows his assignment at the slightest fake looking to make a highlight play, and his breakdown causes a domino effect in the secondary. He's flat-out terrible.

Hog Farmer
10-16-2006, 09:02 AM
I like Greg Wesley!

shaneo69
10-16-2006, 02:47 PM
I thought Page sucked @ss yesterday. Is it possible that we're over-rating his potential because of all the BS we heard from the media during training camp? This guy was a 7th rounder. Most 7th rounders get cut, and those that don't usually play special teams exclusively.

Pollard, OTOH, was a 2nd rounder. He should be playing at SS. At FS, we need a guy who is the smartest player on the field, as Deron Cherry was in his heyday.

But then, we apparently never look at intelligence as a factor when drafting safeties.

King_Chief_Fan
10-16-2006, 02:52 PM
I'm not saying at all that there's an acceptable excuse for the way Page played.

I'm saying he's a rookie because it means he has the room to IMPROVE.

Wesley is simply not going to improve at this point. He's bad and he's going to stay bad.

I loved the way he bounced off Washington for a Pitt TD.
I thought Warfield was back............ but, to your point, he has
room to improve.

shaneo69
10-16-2006, 03:05 PM
Had we not given Wesley and Woods big new contracts after the 2003 fluke season, we probably would've kept former 7th rounders Harts and Pile last season.

Mecca
10-16-2006, 04:07 PM
Had we not given Wesley and Woods big new contracts after the 2003 fluke season, we probably would've kept former 7th rounders Harts and Pile last season.

Or....we could have drafted Troy Polamalu with our pick that year seeing as he went with our pick that we traded with Pittsburgh. Would you rather have him or Larry Johnson?

Mr. Laz
10-16-2006, 04:22 PM
jarrad page played like total crap yesterday as well.

at least a couple blown assignments ... some missed tackles.


entire secondary sucked up the place

JBucc
10-16-2006, 04:23 PM
Or....we could have drafted Troy Polamalu with our pick that year seeing as he went with our pick that we traded with Pittsburgh. Would you rather have him or Larry Johnson?I'd rather trade up and get Charles Rogers. That guy's gonna be a stud.








Sorry I couldn't help myself.