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jspchief
10-15-2006, 07:57 PM
Gonzo is up for a contract at the end of 2006. After watching him the last few years, I wonder what his value really is to this team. He seems to lack the playmaking ability he once had. Yea, he's still one of the best TEs in the game. But he's no longer a substitute for a WR like he has been for us over the years. He's not particularly fast, he doesn't break a lot of tackles, and to be honest he doesn't have the greatest hands anymore. He's not some nightmare for defensive coordinators any longer.

I'm just beginning to wonder how much he's really worth to this team. In the past he was a guy you could rely on when other facets of our offense struggled. Now he's just another piece that only seems to work when everything else is working.

If Gonzo comes looking for a contract that puts him in the top 5 of the pay scale for TEs, is he still worth it?

JBucc
10-15-2006, 08:00 PM
No. If he wants Vernon Davis, Antonio Gates money let him walk. If he wants money for what he is, an aging TE past his prime he can stay as long as he wants.

Bill Parcells
10-15-2006, 08:01 PM
That is a very good question..

I would trade him for A)Immediate needs to get the Chiefs over the top right now.or B)For draft picks and think about the future

Gonzo is built for an attacking passing offense..something the Chiefs are going away from right now

Claynus
10-15-2006, 08:01 PM
Absolutely not. I've come to accept that harsh fact. They better not break the bank on him.

Claynus
10-15-2006, 08:02 PM
Gonzo is built for an attacking passing offense..w

Gonzo is built for an offense where he is not required to be the main receiving threat. He'd be ideal in a place like Denver (gulp) or a place where they have a premier wideout and RB.

Sure-Oz
10-15-2006, 08:03 PM
I think if he re-signs for decent money sure keep him. But i'd try to trade him and get something. It's obvious we aren't utilizing him like we have in the past.

Bill Parcells
10-15-2006, 08:04 PM
Gonzo is built for an offense where he is not required to be the main receiving threat. He'd be ideal in a place like Denver (gulp) or a place where they have a premier wideout and RB.
Right!!!!

Claynus
10-15-2006, 08:05 PM
It's obvious we aren't utilizing him like we have in the past.

I don't think that's true at all. He's just not getting open. The dude was almost unstoppable in Grbac's last two years.

His decline started last year and now he is nothing special. He is no longer an elite player.

Simplex3
10-15-2006, 08:12 PM
He's old. Old TE's aren't very good. I wouldn't give much for him, quality TE's aren't exactly rare these days. Gates, LJ Smith, Cooley, Colston, Shockey, Gonzalez, Heap, Winslow, Witten, Crumpler, McMichael, Miller, Watson...

Not exactly the position you have to break the bank on to get quality.

Knob
10-15-2006, 08:13 PM
I don't think that's true at all. He's just not getting open. The dude was almost unstoppable in Grbac's last two years.

His decline started last year and now he is nothing special. He is no longer an elite player.


But this year he finally learned spanish :rolleyes:

B2chiefsfan
10-15-2006, 08:14 PM
Heck...

No tightends are really making any noise so far this season.

Claynus
10-15-2006, 08:16 PM
He's old. Old TE's aren't very good.

It's not fair. Sharpe was good to the last drop. :(

I don't know if Tony has 2,000 more yards in him. It might take 4 years. That's what he needs to break Sharpe's record.

Bwana
10-15-2006, 08:16 PM
What we really need is a good LT. I would trade TG for a great LT in a heart beat.

dollar1
10-15-2006, 08:18 PM
I agree and (gulp) said the same thing about DT in his final year :Poke:

~diving under rock~

Basileus777
10-15-2006, 08:19 PM
What we really need is a good LT. I would trade TG for a great LT in a heart beat.

Good LTs are traded about as often as franchise qbs.

jspchief
10-15-2006, 08:20 PM
I don't think that's true at all. He's just not getting open. The dude was almost unstoppable in Grbac's last two years.

His decline started last year and now he is nothing special. He is no longer an elite player.That's just the thing. There was a time when everyone knew Gonzo was going to get the ball, and yet he was still able to get it. Now he gets shut down regularly, and to be honest he drops a lot of balls that he used to catch. I'm just not sure where him and a new contract will fit on this offense. He's no longer a substitution for a WR that he once was.

Knob
10-15-2006, 08:20 PM
What we really need is a good LT. I would trade TG for a great LT in a heart beat.


Any idea on the top LT's out of college this year? I don't follow college too often.

Bwana
10-15-2006, 08:21 PM
Good LTs are traded about as often as franchise qbs.

No shit

Bwana
10-15-2006, 08:22 PM
Any idea on the top LT's out of college this year? I don't follow college too often.

I'm in he same boat Rob, I don't follow it much. I know there are a few guys on here that do and could answer that question. Draft guru's if you will. :)

Iowanian
10-15-2006, 08:26 PM
I think there are alot more needs for this team than a high dollar, over 30 TE.

Thanks for your time....

Halfcan
10-15-2006, 08:58 PM
Gonzo is not going anywhere-he will retire a Chief.

milkman
10-15-2006, 09:06 PM
I'm in he same boat Rob, I don't follow it much. I know there are a few guys on here that do and could answer that question. Draft guru's if you will. :)

Joe Thomas from Wisconsin will probably be a a top ten pick, but the guy that should be right around where I would expect us to pick is Sam Baker out of USC.

He could be anchor at LT for years.

Bwana
10-15-2006, 09:09 PM
Joe Thomas from Wisconsin will probably be a a top ten pick, but the guy that should be right around where I would expect us to pick is Sam Baker out of USC.

He could be anchor at LT for years.

We could sure use a great LT. :drool:

Halfcan
10-15-2006, 09:11 PM
We need to rebuild both lines.

The Bad Guy
10-15-2006, 09:20 PM
We need to rebuild both lines.

Re-build?

Not even close with the D-line.

The Chiefs need one stable DT. They are set at end for the next 5 years as long as they re-sign Allen.

The Chiefs shouldn't pay TG like he thinks he should be paid. Dude has fallen off big time. I hope Carl doesn't get stupid with him.

TRR
10-15-2006, 09:29 PM
Re-build?

Not even close with the D-line.

The Chiefs need one stable DT. They are set at end for the next 5 years as long as they re-sign Allen.

The Chiefs shouldn't pay TG like he thinks he should be paid. Dude has fallen off big time. I hope Carl doesn't get stupid with him.


I agree Bad Guy. I am happy with Hali, Allen (if he can stay out of trouble) and James Reed. However, If KC had a stud DT like a John Henderson, or a Tommy Harris, then our D Line would be set. We are a healthy Trent Green, a solid LT, and a stud DT away from being a tough team to beat.

I don't put much into this game today. The Steelers were itching to break out, and on the road without your starting Pro Bowl QB, and your Pro Bowl kick/punt return guy, your bound to struggle against he ex-champs. I look for KC to rebound, and come hard at SD next week.

PastorMikH
10-15-2006, 09:33 PM
I'd have to agree with the sentiments that Tony isn't worth a lot of cash at this point. He's missed a good number of balls - that he used to catch - that had he caught them, would have really helped the team this season. If he wants to sign a contract that will allow him to retire in KC and also help KC have money for signing some younger playmakers then fine. If he wants a payday, let someone else pay him.

Bowser
10-15-2006, 09:56 PM
That's just the thing. There was a time when everyone knew Gonzo was going to get the ball, and yet he was still able to get it. Now he gets shut down regularly, and to be honest he drops a lot of balls that he used to catch. I'm just not sure where him and a new contract will fit on this offense. He's no longer a substitution for a WR that he once was.

Is it his fault, though? Tony does all he's asked to do, including stay in and block. And as far as the hands go, he's really always been hot or cold with his catches. He'll drop gimmies, then make an ubelievable snag.

I know it's been talked to death, but the reason Tony is struggling in the pass game is because Willie Roaf bailed out on the team on the eve of training camp. Willie solidified the left side along with Waters. You couldn't find a better left side of the O-Line anywhere in the league the last 2+years. Not only would that insure that Trent has that extra 1-2 seconds to find an open Gonzo, Roaf was a roadgrater as a run blocker. 8 or 9 guys in the box to stop LJ, Tony is open. Third and long, Trent usually had the time to wait for Tony to get open.

And perhaps this foot injury he's battled has taken more of a toll than what he's let on, as well. Add all that up, and you come up with a good TE, not an All-World TE.

dr00d
10-15-2006, 11:44 PM
sucks, get rid of him...bring in someone who can catch a ball

Florida_Bronco
10-15-2006, 11:50 PM
Gonzo is built for an offense where he is not required to be the main receiving threat. He'd be ideal in a place like Denver (gulp) or a place where they have a premier wideout and RB.

No thanks, we already got our TE of the future.

Demonpenz
10-15-2006, 11:56 PM
I want to see kris wilson in TG's roll for one game. HE has to be faster and be able to get seperation on some linebackers, if not than can we all agree that the kris wilson project can go the way of the dinasour

Claynus
10-15-2006, 11:57 PM
No thanks, we already got our TE of the future.

Maybe bust of the future. That guy hasn't done shit.

Psyko Tek
10-16-2006, 01:20 AM
I think if he re-signs for decent money sure keep him. But i'd try to trade him and get something. It's obvious we aren't utilizing him like we have in the past.

I believe He's still got it, but we ain't using him the right way

put him in the slot or something
he's got the hands and size
he shouldn't be covering for our lack of tackles

'Hamas' Jenkins
10-16-2006, 01:41 AM
With Cruz's Injury, this should be our basic setup

2 TE's (Dunn and Gonzo) or one with Wilson at H-Back
Parker and Kennison at WR
LJ in the backfield.

Wilson should do what Cooley does in the Washington offense and Gonzo should never stay in to block except on rare plays. Dunn plays the role of a 6th OL on the left side (protecting you know who) and LJ and Wilson can act as safety valves underneath or blitz pickups. Kennison and Parker do their normal things.

Mecca
10-16-2006, 02:19 AM
When Tony Gonzalez lost his speed he lost his threat, now LB's can outrun him so covering him isn't that difficult for defenses.

They better not pay him huge money but they will cause he's one of Carls good picks......

jspchief
10-16-2006, 06:04 AM
Is it his fault, though? Tony does all he's asked to do, including stay in and block. And as far as the hands go, he's really always been hot or cold with his catches. He'll drop gimmies, then make an ubelievable snag.

I know it's been talked to death, but the reason Tony is struggling in the pass game is because Willie Roaf bailed out on the team on the eve of training camp. Willie solidified the left side along with Waters. You couldn't find a better left side of the O-Line anywhere in the league the last 2+years. Not only would that insure that Trent has that extra 1-2 seconds to find an open Gonzo, Roaf was a roadgrater as a run blocker. 8 or 9 guys in the box to stop LJ, Tony is open. Third and long, Trent usually had the time to wait for Tony to get open.

And perhaps this foot injury he's battled has taken more of a toll than what he's let on, as well. Add all that up, and you come up with a good TE, not an All-World TE.It doesn't matter if it's "his fault" or not. It doesn't change the fact that he's not the weapon he used to be.

And as far as I'm concerned, Gonzo was falling off last year even with Roaf. I'm not talking about dropping stats due to staying in to block. I'm talking about being ineffective when he's on passing routes. James Freakin Farrior shut him down yesterday. There was a time when Gonzo would have shredded someone like Farrior.

It's pretty clear that this team is at a crossroads. I'm beginning to think the direction we should choose doesn't include Tony Gonzalez.

King_Chief_Fan
10-16-2006, 06:12 AM
Gonzo is up for a contract at the end of 2006. After watching him the last few years, I wonder what his value really is to this team. He seems to lack the playmaking ability he once had. Yea, he's still one of the best TEs in the game. But he's no longer a substitute for a WR like he has been for us over the years. He's not particularly fast, he doesn't break a lot of tackles, and to be honest he doesn't have the greatest hands anymore. He's not some nightmare for defensive coordinators any longer.

I'm just beginning to wonder how much he's really worth to this team. In the past he was a guy you could rely on when other facets of our offense struggled. Now he's just another piece that only seems to work when everything else is working.

If Gonzo comes looking for a contract that puts him in the top 5 of the pay scale for TEs, is he still worth it?

I look for Tong G. and LJ to tell KC to kiss their foot and look for better teams to play with. You may be right about Tony G's value with this team. I can see him lighting things up as a Bronco though.

Florida_Bronco
10-16-2006, 06:20 AM
Maybe bust of the future. That guy hasn't done shit.

Rookie TEs usually don't do much their rookie season, especially in Denver's system where the TE position is so complicated.

patteeu
10-16-2006, 06:38 AM
Gonzolez is worth resigning, but not as anything close to a top 5 TE. I think he's probably got a couple of a little better than average years left, but that's about it.

sedated
10-16-2006, 09:19 AM
I'd like to see him break horseface II's records here, but any TE that can't outrun a LB and consistently drops passes isn't worth much

htismaqe
10-16-2006, 09:24 AM
Re-build?

Not even close with the D-line.

The Chiefs need one stable DT. They are set at end for the next 5 years as long as they re-sign Allen.

The Chiefs shouldn't pay TG like he thinks he should be paid. Dude has fallen off big time. I hope Carl doesn't get stupid with him.

Yes, yes, and yes.

HemiEd
10-16-2006, 09:26 AM
We have our TE of the future. He made a tough catch yesterday for a first down that led to the only Chiefs TD. Kris Wilson!

boogblaster
10-16-2006, 09:36 AM
The whole picture is hes usually used to block..he also has to block before he can start his route..they throw the ball at his feet or over his head..hes as quality as you can get anywhere....

BIG_DADDY
10-16-2006, 09:43 AM
Gonzo is treated like the biggest threat in the passing game by other teams. That is why he isn't getting the ball as much. Tony is still the top TE in the game. You are right though his value probably isn't as high in a Herm O as it would be in others.

Mecca
10-16-2006, 09:49 AM
Gonzo is treated like the biggest threat in the passing game by other teams. That is why he isn't getting the ball as much. Tony is still the top TE in the game. You are right though his value probably isn't as high in a Herm O as it would be in others.

Paying him a huge contract is part of the reason we don't have a #1 WR seeing as he thought he should be paid like he was one, let's see if he still thinks that. Personally if I have my choice I'd rather pay a WR than a TE, especially an aging TE that is visably declining.

Chiefnj
10-16-2006, 09:56 AM
Paying him a huge contract is part of the reason we don't have a #1 WR seeing as he thought he should be paid like he was one, let's see if he still thinks that. Personally if I have my choice I'd rather pay a WR than a TE, especially an aging TE that is visably declining.


In your scenario which #1 WR free agent is going to get Tony's share of the money, and which TE are you going to replace him with?

Mecca
10-16-2006, 09:59 AM
In your scenario which #1 WR free agent is going to get Tony's share of the money, and which TE are you going to replace him with?

Well......I just wouldn't pay him huge money. I think the Chiefs are goig to be in position to draft Calvin Johnson or Dwayne Jarrett this year, probably Jarrett. Both of those guys will be excellent NFL WR's. Getting a productive TE isn't near as difficult now as it was when we drafted Tony. I'd consider going with a guy in the 2nd or 3rd or hell going with Dunn for a year.

jspchief
10-16-2006, 10:11 AM
... and which TE are you going to replace him with?No one. Kris Wilson. Anybody.

It's not like a stud TE is the key piece to a Superbowl team.

The threat of Gonzo used to allow us to get away with subpar receivers. But gonzo is no longer the same threat that he used to be, and our mediocre receivers are getting exposed by it. We have to have a receiving threat on this team, or LJ is going to continue to see 8 and 9 man boxes.

Luzap
10-16-2006, 10:39 AM
If we could resign him to a decent contract with low up front (bonus) money, there has to be another team out there that feels like he could be the missing piece for their playoff run.

Tony would be mad; KC fans would be mad, but personally I think we should see if we couldn't get a first for him this comming offseason. I don't buy into the idea that his skills have declined that much, and we could make a point to showcasing him in the second half of the season.

If we're going to rebuild, let's rebuild.

Luz
who else has trade value???...

kregger
10-16-2006, 11:06 AM
Good LTs are traded about as often as franchise qbs.
And sometimes they are let go as free agents.
Dammit Carl !! :banghead:

Chiefnj
10-16-2006, 11:13 AM
Well......I just wouldn't pay him huge money. I think the Chiefs are goig to be in position to draft Calvin Johnson or Dwayne Jarrett this year, probably Jarrett. Both of those guys will be excellent NFL WR's. Getting a productive TE isn't near as difficult now as it was when we drafted Tony. I'd consider going with a guy in the 2nd or 3rd or hell going with Dunn for a year.

So you'd be okay using a 1st and 2nd, or 1st and 3rd round pick on WR and TE.

Mr. Laz
10-16-2006, 11:14 AM
i want to keep tony


but the reality is that you usually don't want to give big contracts to guys over 30.

tony has also shown a drop in speed since his foot injury ..... he's not going to be getting any faster.

linebackers can now turn and run with him step for step.

beware the big contract