PDA

View Full Version : Saudis Signal Support for OPEC Cut


Donger
10-19-2006, 10:19 AM
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/OPEC?SITE=7219&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-10-19-09-53-09

DOHA, Qatar (AP) -- Saudi Arabia's oil minister said Thursday that his country supports OPEC's proposed 1 million barrels-a-day production cut.

"We will try to make the market balanced," Ali Naimi said, ending two weeks of silence from the world's largest oil producing nation and giving a quick jolt to oil prices.

Naimi's statement came as the cartel's oil ministers gathered in the capital of Qatar for emergency talks on cutting output after a price decline of more than 25 percent since mid-July.

Light sweet crude for November delivery rose 70 cents to $58.35 a barrel in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

Bowser
10-19-2006, 10:24 AM
Saudis must be running out of monay. It's hard providing for 300 kids and family.

:Poke:

boogblaster
10-19-2006, 10:27 AM
NUKE-EM.....

InChiefsHell
10-19-2006, 10:27 AM
Wait...I thought Bush was controlling oil prices and stuff...

siberian khatru
10-19-2006, 10:28 AM
Light sweet crude

Mmmm, tasty.

Mr. Laz
10-19-2006, 10:35 AM
Hydrogen

StcChief
10-19-2006, 10:36 AM
Cruise missiles on OPEC countries capitals.

ptlyon
10-19-2006, 10:40 AM
I would like to be the first to greet our newest, 51st state, Saudisrelia.

Rain Man
10-19-2006, 10:42 AM
I would like to be the first to greet our newest, 51st state, Saudisrelia.

I vote to call it North Saudilina.

Donger
10-19-2006, 10:42 AM
National retail average for gasoline is $2.22 right now. That's going to go up, folks.

penguinz
10-19-2006, 10:45 AM
But the elections have not happened yet!

ChiTown
10-19-2006, 10:49 AM
National retail average for gasoline is $2.22 right now. That's going to go up, folks.

The Saudi's were peeing themselves when Oil shot below $65/barrel. They started making public statements about "balancing the market" shortly therafter.

I'm sticking with my original projection that the National retail average will be in the $2.65/g range by mid Jan 07, and hover in that range for several months.

Kyle401
10-19-2006, 12:01 PM
This only confirms that we can not convert to E85 fast enough.

Screw the oil countries, we got corn.

Donger
10-19-2006, 12:04 PM
The Saudi's were peeing themselves when Oil shot below $65/barrel. They started making public statements about "balancing the market" shortly therafter.

I'm sticking with my original projection that the National retail average will be in the $2.65/g range by mid Jan 07, and hover in that range for several months.

That's certainly possible, but I think that it will be closer to $2.45.

Donger
10-19-2006, 12:06 PM
This only confirms that we can not convert to E85 fast enough.

Screw the oil countries, we got corn.

Unfortunately, ethanol isn't a viable solution. We could convert all of our fields to ethanol production and still not have enough. I'm all for it as a supplement, but not as a replacement.

InChiefsHell
10-19-2006, 12:17 PM
You have to have a certain type of engine to run E85 anyway don't you?

ptlyon
10-19-2006, 12:19 PM
You have to have a certain type of engine to run E85 anyway don't you?

Yes.

jjjayb
10-19-2006, 12:30 PM
This only confirms that we can not convert to E85 fast enough.

Screw the oil countries, we got corn.

We've got oil too. I say screw the Caribou, lets start drilling in Alaska.

Kyle401
10-19-2006, 12:31 PM
Unfortunately, ethanol isn't a viable solution. We could convert all of our fields to ethanol production and still not have enough. I'm all for it as a supplement, but not as a replacement.
2.8 gallons of ethanol/Bushel of Corn.

U.S. Corn Production 9-10 Billion Bushels per year.

Annual U.S. Gasoline Consumption = 21.9 Billion gallons per year

If all the Corn in the U.S. (at today's production levels) were converted to ethanol (process leaves high quality feed byproduct), we would generate ~26.6 billion gallons of ethanol per year. Approximately 21% greater than our current gasoline consumption and 36% greater than the quantity needed to completely convert to E85.

In 2000, the U.S. produced approximately 35% of our total oil consumption. If we could reduce our gasoline consumption 85%, we would be nearly independent from foreign oil producers.

Kyle401
10-19-2006, 12:34 PM
You have to have a certain type of engine to run E85 anyway don't you?

This should be a larger issue in Washington but seems to be largely ignored. There is no excuse for allowing new vehicles to be produced without flex fuel engines.

Mr. Laz
10-19-2006, 12:36 PM
Unfortunately, ethanol isn't a viable solution. We could convert all of our fields to ethanol production and still not have enough. I'm all for it as a supplement, but not as a replacement.
what he said

corn is only a gas saving supplement.



it's no solution ... in the short or long term.

Mr. Laz
10-19-2006, 12:38 PM
2.8 gallons of ethanol/Bushel of Corn.

U.S. Corn Production 9-10 Billion Bushels per year.

Annual U.S. Gasoline Consumption = 21.9 Billion gallons per year

If all the Corn in the U.S. (at today's production levels) were converted to ethanol (process leaves high quality feed byproduct), we would generate ~26.6 billion gallons of ethanol per year. Approximately 21% greater than our current gasoline consumption and 36% greater than the quantity needed to completely convert to E85.

In 2000, the U.S. produced approximately 35% of our total oil consumption. If we could reduce our gasoline consumption 85%, we would be nearly independent from foreign oil producers.
and how much oil/gas must be used to grow all the corn?

Donger
10-19-2006, 12:40 PM
2.8 gallons of ethanol/Bushel of Corn.

U.S. Corn Production 9-10 Billion Bushels per year.

Annual U.S. Gasoline Consumption = 21.9 Billion gallons per year

If all the Corn in the U.S. (at today's production levels) were converted to ethanol (process leaves high quality feed byproduct), we would generate ~26.6 billion gallons of ethanol per year. Approximately 21% greater than our current gasoline consumption and 36% greater than the quantity needed to completely convert to E85.

In 2000, the U.S. produced approximately 35% of our total oil consumption. If we could reduce our gasoline consumption 85%, we would be nearly independent from foreign oil producers.

You're assuming that ethanol is as efficient an energy source as gasoline.

It is not, not by a long shot.

Donger
10-19-2006, 12:41 PM
2.8 gallons of ethanol/Bushel of Corn.

U.S. Corn Production 9-10 Billion Bushels per year.

Annual U.S. Gasoline Consumption = 21.9 Billion gallons per year

If all the Corn in the U.S. (at today's production levels) were converted to ethanol (process leaves high quality feed byproduct), we would generate ~26.6 billion gallons of ethanol per year. Approximately 21% greater than our current gasoline consumption and 36% greater than the quantity needed to completely convert to E85.

In 2000, the U.S. produced approximately 35% of our total oil consumption. If we could reduce our gasoline consumption 85%, we would be nearly independent from foreign oil producers.

So, we'd all starve and still not have enough ethanol to power our vehicles.

Sorry, but like I said, a good supplement but not a replacement for gasoline.

Kyle401
10-19-2006, 12:41 PM
and how much oil/gas must be used to grow all the corn?

Uh, I don't know if you noticed but... sun, soil, and rain cause corn to grow. Not oil.

Donger
10-19-2006, 12:43 PM
Uh, I don't know if you noticed but... sun, soil, and rain cause corn to grow. Not oil.

Please tell me you're kidding.

There is a net energy loss in producing ethanol. In other words, more energy is required to produce it than is left in the final product.

Kyle401
10-19-2006, 12:46 PM
You're assuming that ethanol is as efficient an energy source as gasoline.

It is not, not by a long shot.

Perhaps you missed the part about being able to outproduce our current demand buy 36%. E85 vehicles are typically approximately 20-30% less efficient overall.

jiveturkey
10-19-2006, 12:47 PM
We've got oil too. I say screw the Caribou, lets start drilling in Alaska.We already are.

Mr. Laz
10-19-2006, 12:49 PM
Uh, I don't know if you noticed but... sun, soil, and rain cause corn to grow. Not oil.
does a magic fairy come along and fertilize?

do hobbits come along and harvest?


and who processes ... little bo peep?




saw a report somewhere that said it takes 1 and 1/4 gallons of gas to produce a gallon of ethanol. That report was old ... but it's still fairly applicable.

oldandslow
10-19-2006, 12:49 PM
Uh, I don't know if you noticed but... sun, soil, and rain cause corn to grow. Not oil.

And that thing they are using to plant the corn runs on what...

And the stuff they put into the ground that makes the 300 bushel per acre corn is made out of what....

And the liquid they spray to keep all the little buggies and weeds out of the corn is created from....

You only get one guess now...it has 3 letters...starts with an o...

by the way if ethanal is 20 to 30% less efficient - and it takes 3 quarters of a gallon of corn to make one gallan of ethanol...

Where are the savings?

Bwana
10-19-2006, 12:51 PM
Hydrogen

+ bomb = giant parking lot.

Lzen
10-19-2006, 12:52 PM
Kyle401,
Just stop while you're behind.

FYI, if we decide to convert all our corn crops to ethanol, we'll need to import food to replace all the corn.

jiveturkey
10-19-2006, 12:53 PM
And that thing they are using to plant the corn runs on what...

And the stuff they put into the ground that makes the 300 bushel per acre corn is made out of what....

And the liquid they spray to keep all the little buggies and weeds out of the corn is created from....

You only get one guess now...it has 3 letters...starts with an o...Old...

and slow.


Hi Ohhh!!!

You probably didn't even see it coming. :)

Donger
10-19-2006, 12:53 PM
Perhaps you missed the part about being able to outproduce our current demand buy 36%. E85 vehicles are typically approximately 20-30% less efficient overall.

Heh. I knew something was wrong with your figures.

The US comsumes 146 billion gallons of gasoline per year, not 21.9 billion.

Kyle401
10-19-2006, 01:10 PM
I could go on and on but, there's no use arguing when no one will likely change their mind. Go find an article that supports your point of view. There are all kinds out there. I'm sure everyone can find one that will assure them that they are indeed correct.

FYI: 35% efficiency is considered good for most energy generation processes.

Donger
10-19-2006, 01:13 PM
I could go on and on but, there's no use arguing when no one will likely change their mind. Go find an article that supports your point of view. There are all kinds out there. I'm sure everyone can find one that will assure them that they are indeed correct.

FYI: 35% efficiency is considered good for most energy generation processes.

Wait. Are you disputing the fact that we consume 146 billion gallons of gasoline every year?

Mr. Laz
10-19-2006, 01:14 PM
FYI: 35% efficiency is considered good for most energy generation processes.
not when you have to use the energy you are trying to conserve.


switching to ethanol wouldn't save oil ... it would use more of it.



not matter how many willie nelson jr. start singing ... ethanol is not a viable replacement, only a supplement.

Kyle401
10-19-2006, 01:22 PM
Heh. I knew something was wrong with your figures.

The US comsumes 146 billion gallons of gasoline per year, not 21.9 billion.

That figure was based on U.S. Motor Gasoline Sales to end users. (http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_cons_refmg_d_nus_VTR_mgalpd_m.htm)


~60 million gpd * 365 days per year = 21.9 billion gallons per year,

Halfcan
10-19-2006, 01:29 PM
This only confirms that we can not convert to E85 fast enough.

Screw the oil countries, we got corn.

We could have used different methods 20 years ago-do you really think anything is going to change with Bush in there?

Calcountry
10-19-2006, 01:37 PM
Unfortunately, ethanol isn't a viable solution. We could convert all of our fields to ethanol production and still not have enough. I'm all for it as a supplement, but not as a replacement.Donger, what do you know about the oil well in the Gulf that refills itself?

Calcountry
10-19-2006, 01:39 PM
2.8 gallons of ethanol/Bushel of Corn.

U.S. Corn Production 9-10 Billion Bushels per year.

Annual U.S. Gasoline Consumption = 21.9 Billion gallons per year

If all the Corn in the U.S. (at today's production levels) were converted to ethanol (process leaves high quality feed byproduct), we would generate ~26.6 billion gallons of ethanol per year. Approximately 21% greater than our current gasoline consumption and 36% greater than the quantity needed to completely convert to E85.

In 2000, the U.S. produced approximately 35% of our total oil consumption. If we could reduce our gasoline consumption 85%, we would be nearly independent from foreign oil producers.Fine, here's your problem. How do you get that product to market? Ethenol doesn't pipe through pipelines well. Are you going to truck it? Are you going to make Ethanol big rigs?

Donger
10-19-2006, 01:43 PM
That figure was based on U.S. Motor Gasoline Sales to end users. (http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_cons_refmg_d_nus_VTR_mgalpd_m.htm)


~60 million gpd * 365 days per year = 21.9 billion gallons per year,

Well, that's where you went wrong.

Donger
10-19-2006, 01:43 PM
Donger, what do you know about the oil well in the Gulf that refills itself?

Huh?

Calcountry
10-19-2006, 01:47 PM
does a magic fairy come along and fertilize?

do hobbits come along and harvest?


and who processes ... little bo peep?




saw a report somewhere that said it takes 1 and 1/4 gallons of gas to produce a gallon of ethanol. That report was old ... but it's still fairly applicable.God comes and scatters seed, some falls on rocky ground, some on the fertile ground and produces a crop a hundred fold.

Calcountry
10-19-2006, 01:49 PM
Huh?THere is a theory, that oil is created inorganically by the earths heat where the mantle meets the crust. Some geological formations, such as one off the La. coast, have had their productivity increase after they were almost fully depleted.

Do you know anything about this?

Donger
10-19-2006, 01:52 PM
THere is a theory, that oil is created inorganically by the earths heat where the mantle meets the crust. Some geological formations, such as one off the La. coast, have had their productivity increase after they were almost fully depleted.

Do you know anything about this?

No, I don't.

Calcountry
10-19-2006, 02:03 PM
No, I don't.Well fug my nose! I thought you knew everything about oil.

ChiTown
10-19-2006, 02:04 PM
Well fug my nose! I thought you knew everything about oil.

I'm not a Petroleum Engineer, but I CAN tell you that oil is greasy..........

Calcountry
10-19-2006, 02:12 PM
I'm not a Petroleum Engineer, but I CAN tell you that oil is greasy..........I thought you were a trader?

Donger
10-19-2006, 02:15 PM
Well fug my nose! I thought you knew everything about oil.

Not even close.

Halfcan
10-19-2006, 02:18 PM
Fine, here's your problem. How do you get that product to market? Ethenol doesn't pipe through pipelines well. Are you going to truck it? Are you going to make Ethanol big rigs?

Lots of rigs run on Ethanol Bio diesel already. And you make a good point, the fuel has to be trucked in-just like it is now.

ChiTown
10-19-2006, 02:19 PM
I thought you were a trader?

Yep, that's why I'm not a Pet. Eng.

:)

Halfcan
10-19-2006, 02:20 PM
THere is a theory, that oil is created inorganically by the earths heat where the mantle meets the crust. Some geological formations, such as one off the La. coast, have had their productivity increase after they were almost fully depleted.

Do you know anything about this?

Oil will most likely regenerate, but not faster than consumption.

InChiefsHell
10-19-2006, 02:24 PM
We've got oil too. I say screw the Caribou, lets start drilling in Alaska.

Do you listen to Glenn Beck too?? LOve that show...

Donger
10-19-2006, 02:25 PM
Well fug my nose! I thought you knew everything about oil.

You should bump your 'official gas price thread' and we should nuke thos one. Sorry, I forgot about that thread.

Halfcan
10-19-2006, 02:30 PM
Yep lets ruin Alaska for generations-instead of useing Ethanol?? Smart choice.

Calcountry
10-19-2006, 02:30 PM
You should bump your 'official gas price thread' and we should nuke thos one. Sorry, I forgot about that thread.This thread is just fine, I don't want to have to look for that one, I am too lazy.

InChiefsHell
10-19-2006, 02:31 PM
Yep lets ruin Alaska for generations-instead of useing Ethanol?? Smart choice.
:rolleyes:

Donger
10-19-2006, 02:31 PM
Yep lets ruin Alaska for generations-instead of useing Ethanol?? Smart choice.

I think that's a little over-the-top, don't you? Have you ever seen an oil drilling operation?

Calcountry
10-19-2006, 02:31 PM
Yep lets ruin Alaska for generations-instead of useing Ethanol?? Smart choice.I envision a world swimming in oil and gasoline. Just dripping in it, with oil rigs all over the place, pumping and pumping.

Yeah, I like it.

Donger
10-19-2006, 02:32 PM
This thread is just fine, I don't want to have to look for that one, I am too lazy.

Shouldn't be that hard. I posted on it a few weeks ago, I think. I wanted to see if my prediction was accurate.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=145665&page=1&pp=50&highlight=bitching

There she is.

Calcountry
10-19-2006, 02:33 PM
Shouldn't be that hard. I posted on it a few weeks ago, I think. I wanted to see if my prediction was accurate.What prediction was that? You MIL needs a tan?

Donger
10-19-2006, 02:35 PM
What prediction was that? You MIL needs a tan?

Post 136.

buddha
10-19-2006, 02:37 PM
Corn would be a nice stop gap, but hydrogen is the way it will end up going. There are several inventors out there who have found ways to convert water into fuel and get outrageous mileage in the process. For people to be scared of hydrogen technology is silly. Hydrogen is as common an element as they come and it can be used safely.

Mr. Laz
10-19-2006, 02:48 PM
Corn would be a nice stop gap, but hydrogen is the way it will end up going. There are several inventors out there who have found ways to convert water into fuel and get outrageous mileage in the process. For people to be scared of hydrogen technology is silly. Hydrogen is as common an element as they come and it can be used safely.
hydrogen is already here ... it's the infrastructure is what's missing.


and since the best way to set up an infrastructure is to have the gas/oil industry provide both ....... it's not gonna happen for awhile.


gas station:

pump 1 - gas
pump 2 - hydrogen


oil refinery
hydrogen production "refinery"


the conversion is a natural one ...... you just need to get them off their "oil high" long enough to do something about it.

Calcountry
10-19-2006, 02:50 PM
Post 136.This just proves Bill O'Reily's point. There IS somebody behind the curtain that rigs the prices for the election. How did you know this Donger? :hmmm:

Donger
10-19-2006, 02:51 PM
This just proves Bill O'Reily's point. There IS somebody behind the curtain that rigs the prices for the election. How did you know this Donger? :hmmm:

Lucky guess, I suppose.

Calcountry
10-19-2006, 02:56 PM
hydrogen is already here ... it's the infrastructure is what's missing.


and since the best way to set up an infrastructure is to have the gas/oil industry provide both ....... it's not gonna happen for awhile.


gas station:

pump 1 - gas
pump 2 - hydrogen


oil refinery
hydrogen production "refinery"


the conversion is a natural one ...... you just need to get them off their "oil high" long enough to do something about it.It will never happen if oil doesn't run out. We have OPEC threatening to cut back on production now. Doesn't sound like it is running out?

Russia has huge reserves and are eagerly exploiting them. They just made a huge deep water find, there is more oil in Alaska, off the shores' of California, in Wyoming etc. Everywhere you look there is oil oil OIL.

No shortage of oil in the ground, just getting it to market cheaply is the trick.

Part of my theory on why Gas has tripled is due to the vast increase in the overall money supply that was created by Zero Percent interest rates that the Fed forced on us after the 9/11 attacks. They had no choice but to pump huge liquidity into the economy in order to avoid a depression. What has been troubling, is how the government has attempted to hide all the inflation that has occurred since they did this. Oil is a real commodity, and if there are too many dollars available, naturally its price is going to float upward as a result.

Real Estate is a tangible, fixed good. Have you seen the median price of homes lately? No inflation, BAH HUMBUG.