OOOPs: Pat Tillman's bro says malicious criminals are still in charge of this country

[memyselfI]

Guess that means they can forget ever using Pat Tillman as a recruiting poster child. His entire family has now come out against the war. I think not only Pat but now his brother are true heroes. I hope Kevin Tillman will find a way to use his experience and his passion to make positive change IN this country and FOR this country.

I love to bold money quotes in outstanding articles but this is one outstanding money quote after another. Consider the entire piece bolded!!! :clap:



http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/200601019_after_pats_birthday/

It is Pat’s birthday on November 6, and elections are the day after. It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice… until we got out.

Much has happened since we handed over our voice:

Somehow we were sent to invade a nation because it was a direct threat to the American people, or to the world, or harbored terrorists, or was involved in the September 11 attacks, or received weapons-grade uranium from Niger, or had mobile weapons labs, or WMD, or had a need to be liberated, or we needed to establish a democracy, or stop an insurgency, or stop a civil war we created that can’t be called a civil war even though it is. Something like that.

Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.

Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few “bad apples” in the military.

Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a five-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It’s interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a five-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle 50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat.

Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes.

Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground.

Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started.

Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated.

Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.

Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.

Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated.

Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.

Somehow torture is tolerated.

Somehow lying is tolerated.

Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense.

Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.

Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.

Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.

Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared, and distrusted countries in the world.

Somehow being politically informed, diligent, and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance.

Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country.

Somehow this is tolerated.

Somehow nobody is accountable for this.

In a democracy, the policy of the leaders is the policy of the people. So don’t be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity. Most likely, they will come to know that “somehow” was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites.

Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat’s birthday.





Brother and Friend of Pat Tillman,

Kevin Tillman

[scott free]

WOW. I have spoken with several guys recently back from Iraq, 2 Officers & 3 Enlisted that said all of the same things in one way or another. I never heard a positive, even from Officers who usually tow the company line to a higher degree. I feel horrible for our men and women over there. The one line that always sticks out to me came from the highest ranking guy, an MP Capt. " They ALL hate us, its just a horrible mess".

[memyselfI]

WOW. I have spoken with several guys recently back from Iraq, 2 Officers & 3 Enlisted that said all of the same things in one way or another. I never heard a positive, even from Officers who usually tow the company line to a higher degree. I feel horrible for our men and women over there. The one line that always sticks out to me came from the highest ranking guy, an MP Capt. " They ALL hate us, its just a horrible mess".

I feel horrible for them too. Especially the ones who enlisted after 9/11 because they felt a call to do something to 'protect' their country and who've been there two or three times and might still have 3-4 more years left on their contracts. Can you imagine how depressing that must be????

[scott free]

I feel horrible for them too. Especially the ones who enlisted after 9/11 because they felt a call to do something to 'protect' their country and who've been there two or three times and might still have 3-4 more years left on their contracts. Can you imagine how depressing that must be????
I often try to imagine it yet will never fully grasp it. My AIT phase of basic training graduated 2 days before the "Turkey Shoot" back in the Gulf War, so i barely missed that one..had my orders to go but they were changed after the ground war ended. That had its own element of trepidation but that war was not even remotely as bad. So i try to understand yet am sure i never will.

[Pitt Gorilla]

I wonder what the RWNJs will say about Kevin. :shake:

[memyselfI]

I wonder what the RWNJs will say about Kevin. :shake:

Well since the normally blathering ad nauseum RWNJ crowd on this site is mysteriously silent about this op/ed, here are some of their brethren on another site doing exactly what we would expect them to do.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1723592/posts

Apparently when Kevin was silently shooting and getting shot at the guy was full of integrity, truth, patriotism, intelligence, and wisdom. Now, somehow the same guy is a sell out, a liar, confused, bitter, vengeful, grave dancing, and basically not worthy of having Pat Tillman as a brother. :shake: :rolleyes: :banghead:

[jspchief]

Is this the same brother that was with Pat when he was killed?

[Baby Lee]

I wonder what the RWNJs will say about Kevin. :shake:
That's a guy with an opinion on politics, just like most everyone else? :shrug:

I mean, these are generalized observations on world events, not specific observations on personal experiences.
So his authority is generally equivalent to mine, Meme's, Tucker Carlsons, Gore Vidal's, or Alec Baldwin's.

[memyselfI]

Is this the same brother that was with Pat when he was killed?

Yep, same one.

[patteeu]

I wonder what the RWNJs will say about Kevin. :shake:

I'm not sure what they'll say, but I say that I feel sorry for the people who have lost close friends and family in the GWoT. It's got to be tough.

[oldandslow]

I'm not sure what they'll say, but I say that I feel sorry for the people who have lost close friends and family in Iraq. It's got to be tough.

Especially in a war of choice based upon bad policy.

[patteeu]

WOW. I have spoken with several guys recently back from Iraq, 2 Officers & 3 Enlisted that said all of the same things in one way or another. I never heard a positive, even from Officers who usually tow the company line to a higher degree. I feel horrible for our men and women over there. The one line that always sticks out to me came from the highest ranking guy, an MP Capt. " They ALL hate us, its just a horrible mess".

I'd imagine that most of those 5 people have had a chance to recommit to the military or leave/retire since fighting began in Iraq.

I'm sure multiple tours in Iraq is a pretty damn tough assignment.

[patteeu]

Especially in a war of choice based upon bad policy.

All wars are optional. Ask the French.

My mistake: I meant "in the GWoT" in general, not "in Iraq". Losing someone to war has got to be a pretty tough emotional blow.

[Pittsie]

Losing someone to war has got to be a pretty tough emotional blow.

So it's the irrationality caused by grief talking?

I'm sure multiple tours in Iraq is a pretty damn tough assignment.

Or battle fatigue?

Or perhaps, just perhaps, those on the front lines are in a better position to see through the rhetorical BS behind our failed policies.

[Logical]

I wonder what the RWNJs will say about Kevin. :shake:

They will claim he is now a biased reactionary, blinded by emotion.:hmmm: Sad

[Logical]

I'm not sure what they'll say, but I say that I feel sorry for the people who have lost close friends and family in the GWoT. It's got to be tough.

Especially since the Iraq occupation is a diversion from the GWoT that is costing us billions and 100s of lives and promoting rather than fighting terrorism

[Baby Lee]

They will claim he is now a biased reactionary, blinded by emotion.:hmmm: Sad
Wow!! A full service demonizer.
Define the group? Check.
Pose the question? Check.
Conjure the imagined reply? Check.
Pronounce judgement on the imagined reply? Check.

Congrats, you have definitely established that there might be, conceivably, someone, somewhere, who might have an ill-informed reaction to the statement above.

You must be exhausted.

[oldandslow]

Wow!! A full service demonizer.
Define the group? Check.
Pose the question? Check.
Conjure the imagined reply? Check.
Pronounce judgement on the imagined reply? Check.

Congrats, you have definitely established that there might be, conceivably, someone, somewhere, who might have an ill-informed reaction to the statement above.

You must be exhausted.

Huh???

Jim was simply deconstructing Patteeu's statement that it was grief and long deployment that probably caused such a response.

The guy's brother is calling the neo-con's war wrong-headed.

He served and he damn well has the right to call it like he sees it.

[Brock]

I'm truly sorry for the Tillman family's loss.

[Baby Lee]

Huh???

Jim was simply deconstructing Patteeu's statement that it was grief and long deployment that probably caused such a response.
1. Patteau didn't say what you say he said. Pittsie, interpreted it that way, but so far as I know, they're different people, Patt and Pitt.
2. Logical quoted Pitt Gorilla, not Patteau.
3. Patteau didn't change his name to 'They.'
The guy's brother is calling the neo-con's war wrong-headed.

He served and he damn well has the right to call it like he sees it.
We all damn well have the right to call it like we see it, it's one of the many great things about America.

[patteeu]

So it's the irrationality caused by grief talking?



Or battle fatigue?

Or perhaps, just perhaps, those on the front lines are in a better position to see through the rhetorical BS behind our failed policies.

I think taking the charges in this letter seriously is irrational, but I don't know what state the author was in when he wrote it.

I think people on the front lines have a different perspective on our policy than you or I do. In some cases it might be better, but in others it's worse.

[Amnorix]

I heavily discount political and policy statements made by front line soldiers. What I want is for them to do their jobs, and provide solid, factual feedback regarding their mission to their superiors, so that it can be collected with the feedback of others in order to perform higher level analyses.

I regret Pat Tillman's death, but that occurred in Afghanistan, NOT Iraq, and I think most or all of us would agree that that campaign in Afghanistan, against Al Queda itself and the Taliban that clearly did shelter and support them, was well-justified. That his death was to friendly fire is sad, but an unavoidable part of war, which necessarily entails many evils.

None of this makes Kevin Tillman an expert on Iraq, of course.

If, however, Kevin Tillman is drawing on widespread, informal sources in the military regarding the likelihood of success in Iraq, then I'd be a little more interested in his opinion, since the freaking Bush Administration cannot be trusted to do anything other than to obfuscate anything that they think reflects poorly on them. All Administratiosn engage in "spin", etc., but BushCo has turned the Presidency into a Nixon-like bastion of paranoids who think that Congress and the country are their enemy and should be kept from facts at all costs.

[Amnorix]

I think taking the charges in this letter seriously is irrational, but I don't know what state the author was in when he wrote it.

I think people on the front lines have a different perspective on our policy than you or I do. In some cases it might be better, but in others it's worse.


Not better, because it's totally subjective, and many things enter into their decision-making that is irrelevant or damaging to the effort of making an objective decision based on the overall situation.

Your average front line soldier is a high school only educated kid who is less than 25 years old and has seen a small smidgeon of the battlefront. Don't get me wrong -- I have tremendous respect for him and the sacrifices he's making for our country, and his willingness to serve, but that doesn't mean I care about his thoughts on larger policy.

Let me put it htis way - we all watched MASH, I assume. Would you ask Radar O'Reilly if we should be in Korea? If we should attack across the bridges of the Yalu and take the fight to the Chinese in their homelands? If our prospects of success are good or bad?

Seriously...

[Baby Lee]

That's a guy with an opinion on politics, just like most everyone else? :shrug:

I mean, these are generalized observations on world events, not specific observations on personal experiences.
So his authority is generally equivalent to mine, Meme's, Tucker Carlsons, Gore Vidal's, or Alec Baldwin's.
Not better, because it's totally subjective, and many things enter into their decision-making that is irrelevant or damaging to the effort of making an objective decision based on the overall situation.

Your average front line soldier is a high school only educated kid who is less than 25 years old and has seen a small smidgeon of the battlefront. Don't get me wrong -- I have tremendous respect for him and the sacrifices he's making for our country, and his willingness to serve, but that doesn't mean I care about his thoughts on larger policy.

Let me put it htis way - we all watched MASH, I assume. Would you ask Radar O'Reilly if we should be in Korea? If we should attack across the bridges of the Yalu and take the fight to the Chinese in their homelands? If our prospects of success are good or bad?

Seriously...
I'd say we're pretty much in agreement, except, yes, I'd listen to Radar's opinion, and give it roughly the same weight I'd give my father's, or the guy at the coffee shop, or the guy online at the deli.
Everyone gets a voice, but nobody gets a presumption of authority, unless they're in possession of relevant specific knowledge others are not privvy to.

[memyselfI]

They will claim he is now a biased reactionary, blinded by emotion.:hmmm: Sad

Actually, what is sad is those RWNJs on Free Republic are making insinuations that it's the guilt that Kevin suffers because of killing Pat himself that is causing his hostile reaction...

the war and the military effort being the victim of his misplaced guilt and dishonor. :shake: :rolleyes: :cuss: :mad:

[Pittsie]

I'd say we're pretty much in agreement, except, yes, I'd listen to Radar's opinion, and give it roughly the same weight I'd give my father's, or the guy at the coffee shop, or the guy online at the deli. Everyone gets a voice, but nobody gets a presumption of authority, unless they're in possession of relevant specific knowledge others are not privy to.

I think pretty much everyone would be in agreement that Kevin Tillman doesn't have specific knowledge on Bush/Cheney's competence, or torture, or most of the other indictments cited.

But IMO, he's a unique authority on the PR strategy behind the war, by virtue of the military's attempt to turn his brother into a posthumous Ira Hays or Sergent York.

[patteeu]

I heavily discount political and policy statements made by front line soldiers. What I want is for them to do their jobs, and provide solid, factual feedback regarding their mission to their superiors, so that it can be collected with the feedback of others in order to perform higher level analyses.

I regret Pat Tillman's death, but that occurred in Afghanistan, NOT Iraq, and I think most or all of us would agree that that campaign in Afghanistan, against Al Queda itself and the Taliban that clearly did shelter and support them, was well-justified. That his death was to friendly fire is sad, but an unavoidable part of war, which necessarily entails many evils.

None of this makes Kevin Tillman an expert on Iraq, of course.

If, however, Kevin Tillman is drawing on widespread, informal sources in the military regarding the likelihood of success in Iraq, then I'd be a little more interested in his opinion, since the freaking Bush Administration cannot be trusted to do anything other than to obfuscate anything that they think reflects poorly on them. All Administratiosn engage in "spin", etc., but BushCo has turned the Presidency into a Nixon-like bastion of paranoids who think that Congress and the country are their enemy and should be kept from facts at all costs.

Not better, because it's totally subjective, and many things enter into their decision-making that is irrelevant or damaging to the effort of making an objective decision based on the overall situation.

Your average front line soldier is a high school only educated kid who is less than 25 years old and has seen a small smidgeon of the battlefront. Don't get me wrong -- I have tremendous respect for him and the sacrifices he's making for our country, and his willingness to serve, but that doesn't mean I care about his thoughts on larger policy.

Let me put it htis way - we all watched MASH, I assume. Would you ask Radar O'Reilly if we should be in Korea? If we should attack across the bridges of the Yalu and take the fight to the Chinese in their homelands? If our prospects of success are good or bad?

Seriously...

I agree with almost everything you've said here, Amno. I might quibble with your characterization of the Bush admin as being paranoid beyond other, non-Nixonian, administrations, but otherwise I agree up and down the line.

[Baby Lee]

Actually, what is sad is those RWNJs on Free Republic are making insinuations that it's the guilt that Kevin suffers because of killing Pat himself that is causing his hostile reaction...

the war and the military effort being the victim of his misplaced guilt and dishonor. :shake: :rolleyes: :cuss: :mad:
Ahh yes, another sad attempt to conflate Freepers with anyone to the right of you.
Shall I start attributing all the moonbattery of DemocraticUnderground to the mainstream DN?

[Logical]

I think taking the charges in this letter seriously is irrational, but I don't know what state the author was in when he wrote it.

I think people on the front lines have a different perspective on our policy than you or I do. In some cases it might be better, but in others it's worse.

Agree with patteeu, and it is better

Disagree with patteeu and it is worse

Simple.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

It's one guy's opinion. I agree with him, but he's not Colin Powell. Mountains and molehills.

[Duck Dog]

I'm truly sorry for the Tillman family's loss.

So is everyone that isn't a whacked out liberal moonbat.

[patteeu]

Agree with patteeu, and it is better

Disagree with patteeu and it is worse

Simple.

At least we still see eye to eye on something. ;)

['Hamas' Jenkins]

So is everyone that isn't a whacked out liberal moonbat.

Yeah, I celebrate every American soldier's death by burning a miniature flag while pissing on the effigy of a US GI. Go f*ck yourself.

[Brock]

Yeah, I celebrate every American soldier's death by burning a miniature flag while pissing on the effigy of a US GI. Go f*ck yourself.

Thanks for identifying yourself as a whacked out liberal moonbat. ;)

[Duck Dog]

Yeah, I celebrate every American soldier's death by burning a miniature flag while pissing on the effigy of a US GI. Go f*ck yourself.

I don't doubt it.

If you weren't a whacked out liberal moonbat, this wouldn't have offended you. Congratulations, dumbass.

[Duck Dog]

Thanks for identifying yourself as a whacked out liberal moonbat. ;)


Beat me by a second.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

And in no way was your comment made to be a sweeping generalization regarding the position that everyone on the left takes vis a vis the war :shake:

[memyselfI]

Ahh yes, another sad attempt to conflate Freepers with anyone to the right of you.
Shall I start attributing all the moonbattery of DemocraticUnderground to the mainstream DN?

You really need to read what is written instead of thinking so hard about how to distort what was written.

I SPECIFICALLY stated the RWNJs on FREE REPUBLIC. I didn't say RWNJs in general. I didn't even say all RWNJs. I mentioned those specifically where I saw pathetic people doing something morally outrageous while simultaneously ridiculing the guy, his service, his feelings for his brother, and his grief.

If you have an example of what you are stating I said, then please post it. Otherwise, pay attention.

[memyselfI]

He's not THE authority on the war in Iraq anymore than the token cheerleader soldiers Iowa Bob has posted letters, articles, pictures, etc. from...

He is, however, in an unique position to be an authority on the honesty, integrity, and morality of the military and the administration because of the lies that were told to him and his family and the secrets that have been kept from them to protect whatever and whomever they are trying to protect. And it's not the 'lies' that got us INTO the quagmire in Iraq that he is speaking from a position of authority about. Rather it's the ones that have kept/keep us there.

If there is anyone who can rhetorically say that Bush lied, ___ died then it would be Kevin Tillman and family.

[MarcBulger]

I also have a brother who is fighting over there. Does my opinion matter? Also, what is his anwser as to what we should do. All of these people talking about secret prisons, torture, etc would be the same people screaming if Bush or the next president did not stop an attack. Kinda like when the NY TIMES ran the article blaming Bush for not connecting the dots and then when he tries they let the world in on what he is doing.

[Baby Lee]

And in no way was your comment made to be a sweeping generalization regarding the position that everyone on the left takes vis a vis the war :shake:
You really need to read what is written instead of thinking so hard about how to distort what was written.

Duck Dog SPECIFICALLY stated the WHACKED OUT LIBERAL MOONBATS. He didn't say LIBERALs in general. He didn't even say all LIBERALs.
If you have an example of what you are stating Duck Dog said, then please post it. Otherwise, pay attention.

;)

Re: Mememe's specific post, I'll grant that you were mentioning a discrete group, but you did it in a line of discussion wherein the question was posed; "What will RWNJs say?" and Logical replied "They'll probably say xxx." then you laid out a specific response in line with Logical's supposition. Not too much a leap to infer that you were trying to paint with a broader brush, with plausible deniability when called on it.

It's the rhetorical equivalent of the following exchange;

"Raiders fans are whacked out fuggers."
"Yeah, the other day I saw a dude in full Raiders gear blowing a goat."
"Hey! They're not all that whacked out."
"Oh, I was just talking about that subset of Raiders fans who blow goats, not ALL Raiders fans."

[Dave Lane]

Especially in a war of choice based upon bad policy.

Amen. I had a discussion with my dad the other day and challenged him to think of a war with less provocation that was more stupid in design, purpose and execution. Stumped us both. Though we did come close with WWI.

Dave

[Logical]

I also have a brother who is fighting over there. Does my opinion matter? Also, what is his anwser as to what we should do. All of these people talking about secret prisons, torture, etc would be the same people screaming if Bush or the next president did not stop an attack. Kinda like when the NY TIMES ran the article blaming Bush for not connecting the dots and then when he tries they let the world in on what he is doing.No

[Brock]

Amen. I had a discussion with my dad the other day and challenged him to think of a war with less provocation that was more stupid in design, purpose and execution. Stumped us both. Though we did come close with WWI.

Dave

Vietnam? I don't think that should have been very hard.

[Adept Havelock]

Vietnam? I don't think that should have been very hard.

I'd also suggest the Spanish-American war.

[BucEyedPea]

I'd also suggest the Spanish-American war.

How b'out ALL three: Spanish-American, WWI, Vietnam...I'd even throw in the American Civil War for good measure, since other western countries ( most notably England and Spain) abolished slavery with the stroke of a pen.

[Adept Havelock]

How b'out ALL three: Spanish-American, WWI, Vietnam...I'd even throw in the American Civil War for good measure, since other western countries ( most notably England and Spain) abolished slavery with the stroke of a pen.


True, but with the ACW (living in Florida, shouldn't you call it the War of Northern Aggression? ;)), slavery was a large issue, but far from the only one.

[BucEyedPea]

True, but with the ACW (living in Florida, shouldn't you call it the War of Northern Aggression? ;)), slavery was a large issue, but far from the only one.


Well, I actually agree, it was not just about slavery—that was just a factor. However, when the south seceded, Lincoln called it a war to "preserve the Union" ...hence the Northern agression. Don't know if Florida is truly southern like South Carolina and Georgia as it's mostly populated with North Eastern'rs and North Mid Western'rs. But I can tell you from associating with Georgian Falcon Fans and evacuating during a hurricane to So Carolina to stay with my cousin ( who married a true southerner) that many in the south claim the north fired the first shots. I am now what was one known as a "Copperhead."

It was still a war that needn't have been fought or was avoidable if leveler heads had prevailed.

[BucEyedPea]

Adept,
Other similarities are Lincoln suspensed habeus corpus. Lincoln was roundly criticized for this as well as accused of being a dictator and a tyrant in executing his war of aggression on the southern states.

[Adept Havelock]

Adept,
Other similarities are Lincoln suspensed habeus corpus. Lincoln was roundly criticized for this as well as accused of being a dictator and a tyrant in executing his war of aggression on the southern states.


Well, we'll have to disagree. I consider a war to preserve the Union neccessary and one worth fighting. Regardless of southern spin, they were the ones who fired on Fort Sumter, thereby firing the first shot. :shrug:

Most wars could be avoided if leveler heads prevailed....on both sides. Aye, that's the rub.

[memyselfI]

Re: Mememe's specific post, I'll grant that you were mentioning a discrete group, but you did it in a line of discussion wherein the question was posed; "What will RWNJs say?" and Logical replied "They'll probably say xxx." then you laid out a specific response in line with Logical's supposition. Not too much a leap to infer that you were trying to paint with a broader brush, with plausible deniability when called on it.



Translation:

I was called out on my distortion and deception regarding someone else's post so instead of just acknowledging and apologizing as would be the honorable thing to do, I think I'll deflect and question the original posters motives providing irrelevant examples in hopes of not only deflecting my error but raising speculation and suspicion about her judgment and motives...

[BucEyedPea]

Well, we'll have to disagree. I consider a war to preserve the Union neccessary and one worth fighting. Regardless of southern spin, they were the ones who fired on Fort Sumter, thereby firing the first shot. :shrug:

Most wars could be avoided if leveler heads prevailed....on both sides. Aye, that's the rub.
My post was not taken as intended. I wasn't arguing whether preserving the Union was necessary or not....just that we had to go to war over it or for any other reason. I think it was our bloodiest war ( I understand we lost more than in WWI,II, Korean and Nam) and it also tore up families. Civil wars are the nastiest of all wars.

[Baby Lee]

Translation:

I was called out on my distortion and deception regarding someone else's post so instead of just acknowledging and apologizing as would be the honorable thing to do, I think I'll deflect and question the original posters motives providing irrelevant examples in hopes of not only deflecting my error but raising speculation and suspicion about her judgment and motives...
1. It played out exactly as I outlined, and I stand by my reading of it.
2. Newsflash folks, you may not be aware of this, when Mememe posts in the DC, you might want to keep an eye on her judgment and motives. I'm sure this comes as a complete shock to all, but someone had to be the first to ever countenance the possibility, however remote.

[DenverChief]

received weapons-grade uranium from Niger --yellow cake far from weapons grade



more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes. -- while I never supported the invasion of Iraq it is not illegal


Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated. -- "I Kevin Tillman SOLD this story/poem/piece to the AP"



Kevin Tillman

[memyselfI]

You know, all the people :deevee: about Kevin selling his essay will hopefully STFU if it's shown that the money went to his brother's foundation or other worthy cause. :rolleyes:

[Logical]

1. It played out exactly as I outlined, and I stand by my reading of it.
2. Newsflash folks, you may not be aware of this, when Mememe posts in the DC, you might want to keep an eye on her judgment and motives. I'm sure this comes as a complete shock to all, but someone had to be the first to ever countenance the possibility, however remote.

One thing is we all know what she believes in on each issue, something that is not easily said for most of the rest of us, yourself and myself included.

[DenverChief]

You know, all the people :deevee: about Kevin selling his essay will hopefully STFU if it's shown that the money went to his brother's foundation or other worthy cause. :rolleyes:


still profiting over something that profit should not be gained from.....according to mr tillman

[listopencil]

BUMP

[memyselfI]

still profiting over something that profit should not be gained from.....according to mr tillman

Yeah, imagine the nerve. 'Profiting' off of his dead brother to benefit his dead brother's foundation...

He should really learn from Cheneyburton and just profit, period. :rolleyes: