Harold Ford Jr. Attack Ad Racist? You decide.

[Pittsie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vZF5ZTu2Go

Adding further credence to the characterization of this as race baiting, a mailer went out a few weeks ago in which Ford's photo appears to have been darkened.

http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/election/article/0,1406,KNS_630_5043343,00.html

The following is a transcript from Sunday's Meet the Press. Nice job of the RNC Chair claiming he has no control over the ad.

RUSSERT: Ken Mehlman, the Republican candidate in Tennessee has asked that you take that ad off the air, that it is over the top. Former Republican Senator William Cohen says it’s, quote, “overt racist appeal.”

Will you take that ad down?

MEHLMAN: Tim, I don’t have the authority to take it down or put it up. It’s what called an independent expenditure.

The way that process works under the campaign reform laws is I write a check to an independent individual. And that person’s responsible for spending money in certain states. Tennessee is one of them.

I’ll tell you this, though. After the comments by Mr. Corker and by former Senator Cohen, I looked at the ad. I don’t agree with that characterization of it. But it’s not an ad that I have authority over. I saw it for the first time the same time that they did.

RUSSERT: Hilary Shelton, the director of the Washington Bureau of the NAACP has criticized this ad. And he said, Ken Mehlman, that you went down to the NAACP in July of 2005 and apologized for the southern strategy of Republican candidates under Richard Nixon and using race as a wedge issue and that this ad does exactly that.

MEHLMAN: I would respectfully disagree with Mr. Shelton. I don’t believe that ad does that.

I will tell you this: I’m very proud of that speech I made. I think that there is nothing more repugnant in our society than people who try to divide Americans along racial lines. And I would denounce any ad that I felt did.

I happen not to believe that ad does, but as I said before, I don’t have the legal authority to take the ad down. It’s an independent expenditure. I looked at it. I just disagree with what Mr. Shelton said about it.

RUSSERT: Well, it’s not only Mr. Shelton. Former Senator Cohen, Vanderbilt professor John Green (sic) says it makes the Willie Horton ad look tame, that it’s filled with racial polarization.

MEHLMAN: Again, I just don’t agree with that at all. I showed it to a number of people when the complaints came out about it after it was put up—African-American folks, Hispanic folks and myself. We all looked at it. All of us, I think, are very sensitive to that. And we did not have that same reaction to it. So I just think there’s a disagreement about it.

RUSSERT: The whole idea of having a blond white woman winking at a black congressman, the notion of interracial sex is not in your mind racist?

MEHLMAN: I think that that ad talks about a number of people on the street talking about things that Mr. Ford allegedly has either done or a proposal he has for the future. I think it’s a fair ad.

As I said, we didn’t have anything to do with creating it. I just think those criticisms of it are wrong.

RUSSERT: And so the NAACP Washington director, an organization that you tried to court, is denouncing the ad—and it doesn’t seem to phase you.

MEHLMAN: Well, the Washington director of the NAACP and I happen to disagree about this.

I was proud of that speech I made. I took some heat for saying it. It was the right thing to say. I’m proud of the fact that our party under this president and under my leadership has made an incredibly aggressive effort to reach out to African-Americans.

I’m proud of the increased number of African-Americans who are running. I believe there is nothing more important we can do than bring people together. I just happen to disagree about the characterization of this ad.

And more importantly, there’s nothing I can do about it, because it’s not an ad over which I have authority or control. This is an independent expenditure.

[patteeu]

In a colorblind world, the race of the woman playing the part of Congressman Ford's temptress would more likely be white than black because of the demographics of society (assuming the demographics of actresses track with society).

It is only in a racist (or at least race-conscious) world where we can expect the race of the actress to match the race of the Congressman.

I vote NO, not racist at all.

[banyon]

In an honest world, we would not imply there were any illicit relationships going on at all, when we didn't know that to be true.

I think the people knowing the ad knew what they were doing when they made it.

[patteeu]

In an honest world, we would not imply there were any illicit relationships going on at all, when we didn't know that to be true.

I think the people knowing the ad knew what they were doing when they made it.

I think they knew that associating "Playboy" with Ford would tarnish him in some people's eyes, but I think it has more to do with sexual morality than it does with racism.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Where is he running? Tennessee. Does Tennessee have the brightest racial record among the states? Not exactly.

There was a very covert racist message in that ad, as it plays off the fear that many racist whites have of black men "abducting their women", i.e. "The Birth of a Nation". The fact that the actress in question was also 'Aryan' only furthers the racial undertones of the ad.

Does this surprise me? Not at all. Republicans have used overt racism as a political strategy in the South since the passing of the Civil Rights Act....there's a reason why Johnson said "I'm handing the South to the Republicans", and it's because he knew that racists would vote for Republican candidates based solely on the fact that a Democrat signed a piece of legislation that equated blacks with whites.

[HC_Chief]

Where is he running? Tennessee. Does Tennessee have the brightest racial record among the states? Not exactly.

There was a very covert racist message in that ad, as it plays off the fear that many racist whites have of black men "abducting their women", i.e. "The Birth of a Nation". The fact that the actress in question was also 'Aryan' only furthers the racial undertones of the ad.

Does this surprise me? Not at all. Republicans have used overt racism as a political strategy in the South since the passing of the Civil Rights Act....there's a reason why Johnson said "I'm handing the South to the Republicans", and it's because he knew that racists would vote for Republican candidates based solely on the fact that a Democrat signed a piece of legislation that equated blacks with whites.

DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!

Just thought those dramatic chords should accompany your wildass aspersions. :thumb:

[banyon]

I think they knew that associating "Playboy" with Ford would tarnish him in some people's eyes, but I think it has more to do with sexual morality than it does with racism.

Are you really so naive to believe that political campaign consultants don't know the race of people in their ads?

[ck_IN]

Good Lord another thread on this ad. You people really need to get over it.

There's nothing racist in this ad unless you chose to make something racist. In that case exactly who is the racist?

As for the race of the woman:
How many Playboy Playmates are black?
What is the black/white ratio of Tenn?
What freaking difference does it make?

To answer those questions to the best of my knowledge:
Not very many
Mostly white
None whatsoever

I don't buy this guy's comment about not having control over the ad but what of it? The ad is harmless. Stupid, tacky, tasteless but harmless.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

There's nothing racist in this ad unless you chose to make something racist. In that case exactly who is the racist?



Pointing out implicit racism does not make the whistleblower a racist.

[ck_IN]

<i>Pointing out implicit racism does not make the whistleblower a racist.</i>

But I'd submit that pointing out implicit racism where none exists at least implies racism.

The only way I can see racism with a white woman asking a black man to call her is if one has a racial problem with black men and white women.

As I said in the other thread, what if the woman were asian or hispanic? Would we still have this conversation?

[banyon]

Good Lord another thread on this ad. You people really need to get over it.

There's nothing racist in this ad unless you chose to make something racist. In that case exactly who is the racist?

As for the race of the woman:
How many Playboy Playmates are black?
What is the black/white ratio of Tenn?
What freaking difference does it make?

To answer those questions to the best of my knowledge:
Not very many
Mostly white
None whatsoever

I don't buy this guy's comment about not having control over the ad but what of it? The ad is harmless. Stupid, tacky, tasteless but harmless.

I'm from Memphis, where Ford is from, and your conclusion is 180 degrees off.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

<i>Pointing out implicit racism does not make the whistleblower a racist.</i>

But I'd submit that pointing out implicit racism where none exists at least implies racism.

The only way I can see racism with a white woman asking a black man to call her is if one has a racial problem with black men and white women.

As I said in the other thread, what if the woman were asian or hispanic? Would we still have this conversation?

You aren't even considering the predilections of the audience in your analysis. How do you think they view this situation? How do you think black women would view a black man who preferred white women? How do you think white men would view this man? These aren't easy questions to answer, but they are important to investigate to understand the context of the ad.

[penchief]

In a colorblind world, the race of the woman playing the part of Congressman Ford's temptress would more likely be white than black because of the demographics of society (assuming the demographics of actresses track with society).

It is only in a racist (or at least race-conscious) world where we can expect the race of the actress to match the race of the Congressman.

I vote NO, not racist at all.

What about the photos?

What about the two combined? Are they unrelated to each other and both completely innocent? Or is there a republican pattern emerging again in Tennessee?

[ck_IN]

<i>How do you think black women would view a black man who preferred white women? How do you think white men would view this man? </i>

So you're saying that black women and white men would vote one way or another based soley on one dippy ad that had a white women hitting on a black man? My how little faith you have. I tend to view people as not so simplistic. For instance I happen to be in Julia Carson's district here in Indy. I can't stand Julia. I don't care in the slightest that she's black.

The people that plan to vote for Ford probably couldn't care less if he's dated white women. Ditto for those planning to vote against. For the undecideds I have more faith that they'll decide based on issues and not some tacky ad.

[ck_IN]

Thank you banyon. I did say <u>to the best of my knowledge</u> Unfortunately my knowledge mostly involves the areas along I-65 and even that is dated.

[chagrin]

I think that if the NAACP says it is racist, it obviously is. Furthermore, if Banyon, Penchief and the other white apologists say Republicans are racist, egotistical bigots, then pass me my sheet. I had no idea I was supposed to hate people of color, because I am white, from the South and Republican, damn. Thank you guys, for showing me the error of my ways. :rolleyes:

[Cochise]

This is what passes for racist nowadays? :rolleyes:

[listopencil]

This is what passes for racist nowadays? :rolleyes:



No kidding. Claiming that the ad is racist sounds to me like a political move by the other side.

[penchief]

I think that if the NAACP says it is racist, it obviously is. Furthermore, if Banyon, Penchief and the other white apologists say Republicans are racist, egotistical bigots, then pass me my sheet. I had no idea I was supposed to hate people of color, because I am white, from the South and Republican, damn. Thank you guys, for showing me the error of my ways. :rolleyes:

Chagrin, I am chagrinned by your characterization of those who are offended by artificial appeals to prejudice as "White Apologists." I'm not an apologist for anyone. I'll apologize for my mistakes but not someone elses.

I just think that when reactionary types (retrocons) start feeling the pressure that they resort to finger pointing and fear mongering. They have a track record of dividing the electorate for their benefit. Once they've split the country down the middle (abortion, gay marriage, military aggression, etc.) they fortify their boundries and assault the enemy's message with irrelevant personal attacks.

The politics of personal destruction is their firewall of choice. They prefer character assassination as a deflecton from reality and from the truth.

This administration believes that lip service, public relations, and psych-ops trump integrity and true leadership.

JMO.

[banyon]

I think that if the NAACP says it is racist, it obviously is. Furthermore, if Banyon, Penchief and the other white apologists say Republicans are racist, egotistical bigots, then pass me my sheet. I had no idea I was supposed to hate people of color, because I am white, from the South and Republican, damn. Thank you guys, for showing me the error of my ways. :rolleyes:

Did you make the ad?

Because that's who I addressed my commentary towards.

[go bowe]

In a colorblind world, the race of the woman playing the part of Congressman Ford's temptress would more likely be white than black because of the demographics of society (assuming the demographics of actresses track with society).

It is only in a racist (or at least race-conscious) world where we can expect the race of the actress to match the race of the Congressman.

I vote NO, not racist at all.the ad is not overtly racist in word or tone, imo...

but, as often happens, there are some subtle code words and images in there that can be interpreted different ways without saying anything explicitly racist...

it's not a case of mushroom clouds, it's more like a 6-pack of subliminal messages that appeal to the racist tendencies of lots of people...

do you remember the furor that surrounded the t.o. commercial with a white actress in a towel?

sure part of it was that we wanted to see the woman without the towel and without t.o. ...

but a big part of it was that deep down, lots of people are still affected by racist attitudes that they were taught as young children...

the good news is that all us old f*ckers who were raised that way will be dying off over the next ten or twenty years...

[patteeu]

I'm from Memphis, where Ford is from, and your conclusion is 180 degrees off.

Tennessee is an 80% white state, regardless of your personal experiences in Memphis.

[patteeu]

What about the photos?

What about the two combined? Are they unrelated to each other and both completely innocent? Or is there a republican pattern emerging again in Tennessee?

I don't know, were they done by the same people? What evidence is there that they were "darkened?" I heard that the photos of HF Jr. were lightened on his website, what do you think of that?

[patteeu]

the ad is not overtly racist in word or tone, imo...

but, as often happens, there are some subtle code words and images in there that can be interpreted different ways without saying anything explicitly racist...

it's not a case of mushroom clouds, it's more like a 6-pack of subliminal messages that appeal to the racist tendencies of lots of people...

do you remember the furor that surrounded the t.o. commercial with a white actress in a towel?

sure part of it was that we wanted to see the woman without the towel and without t.o. ...

but a big part of it was that deep down, lots of people are still affected by racist attitudes that they were taught as young children...

the good news is that all us old f*ckers who were raised that way will be dying off over the next ten or twenty years...

I'm sure you are right about some of this, but I'm not convinced that that's what the ad makers were going for.

I thought the controversy with TO was just about a woman "baring it all" (kinda) on MNF, but I don't doubt that there were some penchiefs out there with super sensitive racism detectors at work. I would guess that diehard racists could find hints of racism in just about any social setting that involves race mixing.

[Pittsie]

I'm sure you are right about some of this, but I'm not convinced that that's what the ad makers were going for.

Had it merely been a "values" attack, they would have stopped at the Playboy mansion part. The Call me/wink part at the end seems to blatantly play on "steal our white women" fears which some segment of Tennesseans possess. They wouldn't have run that part if they didn't feel it would resonate with some segment of the electorate.

It's not a question of having a super sensitive racism detector. It's being able to spot the subtle racial appeals that should have no place in modern political discourse. I guess because we're not lynching black 13 year olds for whistling at white women, we're making progress. :rolleyes:

[stevieray]

but a big part of it was that deep down, lots of people are still affected by racist attitudes that they were taught as young children...



I don't think that racism is relegated just towards "seniors" and white people. I think there are children of all colrs being taught racist attitudes today.There are already pleanty of ads with bm/ww...yet rarely is there one with a bw/wg. There are also plenty of ads that put minorities as cool and the white guy as a dufus. It appears that we can't learn the lesson. Why? Human Nature? Fear? We see people all over the world killing each other because of their race.

It's a disease that tries to eat on all of us in one shape or another.

It sucks.

[patteeu]

Had it merely been a "values" attack, they would have stopped at the Playboy mansion part. The Call me/wink part at the end seems to blatantly play on "steal our white women" fears which some segment of Tennesseans possess. They wouldn't have run that part if they didn't feel it would resonate with some segment of the electorate.

It's not a question of having a super sensitive racism detector. It's being able to spot the subtle racial appeals that should have no place in modern political discourse. I guess because we're not lynching black 13 year olds for whistling at white women, we're making progress. :rolleyes:

The wink at the end is just as relevant to the "values" issue as it is to the "racist stereotype" angle. It's pretty interesting the way the left sniffs this stuff out. Kind of like the way they seem to always get up in arms whenever they find out a conservative or a Republican is gay I guess. ;)

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Tennessee is an 80% white state, regardless of your personal experiences in Memphis.

Like those personal experiences born out in demographics, which show that over 60% of Memphis is black?? :spock:

[headsnap]

No kidding. Claiming that the ad is racist sounds to me like a political move by the other side.
and it appears they are getting some miles out of it. :shake:

[patteeu]

Like those personal experiences born out in demographics, which show that over 60% of Memphis is black?? :spock:

Is Harold Ford Jr. running for Senator of Memphis or Senator of Tennessee?

[Ultra Peanut]

Corker and the RNC are flailing about like a bunch of ninnies at this point.

I think half of the commercials currently airing on local television are ads portraying Harold as the antichrist.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Is Harold Ford Jr. running for Senator of Memphis or Senator of Tennessee?

I'm not questioning the demographics of the state, I'm questioning your interpretation of first hand observation (banyon's) and statistical evidence about the demographics of Memphis, which you questioned without any prior knowledge. Typical patteeu.

[banyon]

Tennessee is an 80% white state, regardless of your personal experiences in Memphis.

Yeah but Ford doesn't live in every part of TN from Chattanooga to Frog Jump, so the women he'd tend to meet and socialize with wouldn't be from those areas.

[patteeu]

Yeah but Ford doesn't live in every part of TN from Chattanooga to Frog Jump, so the women he'd tend to meet and socialize with wouldn't be from those areas.

I suspect that the women he'd tend to meet and socialize with at a Hugh Hefner Superbowl party would, more often than not, be white. But I'm not sure why any of that matters, I was just pointing out that ck_IN referred to black/white ratio of Tennesee, not Memphis. I don't know what point ck_IN's was trying to make with that statistic though.

[patteeu]

I'm not questioning the demographics of the state, I'm questioning your interpretation of first hand observation (banyon's) and statistical evidence about the demographics of Memphis, which you questioned without any prior knowledge. Typical patteeu.

I didn't question anything about the demographics of Memphis. ck_IN was talking about Tennessee, not Memphis.

[penchief]

Corker and the RNC are flailing about like a bunch of ninnies at this point.

I think half of the commercials currently airing on local television are ads portraying Harold as the antichrist.

That's the republican party's M.O. Avoid the issues in favor of a smear campaign.

Is it just coincidence that repulicans always run campaigns like this? Is it really possible that everybody the dems run up the flagpole is the anti-Christ? That's what republicans do. It amazes me how anyone can defend it let alone pretend not to see it.

But the topper, of course, is the RNC's attempt to bullshit us about their ability to pull the ad. Which is also typical of the republican party, the no-accountability party.

You can't get much sleazier than republicans in the heat of a close campaign. The scariest part is that they never stop campaigning. The worst part is the damage it does to the process.

But what are we gonna do until people actually get sick and tired of it? Unfortunately that doesn't look to happen before they've had the time to completely bring this nation to it's knees.

[penchief]

You know what else is bizarre about this. Have you seen the new ad that the RNC is running to replace their brilliant attempt at subtle racism?

If you ignore the blatant attempts to characterize Harold Ford Jr. as sleazier than Bill Clinton, then you might notice the somewhat subliminal graphics that are melded onto the screen along side the attention-grabbing words.

Those sublimal graphics in that ad are all pretty much designed to be offensive to fundamentalist conservatives but the most offensive one shows the silhouettes of naked female bodies writhing around like you'd see on a sign in front of a strip club. Other's show gothic clad gays, etc.

C'mon, all you reasonable republicans. Is this really what you stand for? It's sleazy and totally dishonest. Are these really the people you want to continue running our country? Are these really the people you trust to be above reproach? Are these the people you continue to believe are patriotic and moral American citizens?

[patteeu]

That's the republican party's M.O. Avoid the issues in favor of a smear campaign.

Is it just coincidence that repulicans always run campaigns like this? Is it really possible that everybody the dems run up the flagpole is the anti-Christ? That's what republicans do. It amazes me how anyone can defend it let alone pretend not to see it.

But the topper, of course, is the RNC's attempt to bullshit us about their ability to pull the ad. Which is also typical of the republican party, the no-accountability party.

You can't get much sleazier than republicans in the heat of a close campaign. The scariest part is that they never stop campaigning. The worst part is the damage it does to the process.

But what are we gonna do until people actually get sick and tired of it? Unfortunately that doesn't look to happen before they've had the time to completely bring this nation to it's knees.

The only smear I see here is the democrats smearing the producers of that commercial by calling them racists.

[patteeu]

... but the most offensive one shows the silhouettes of naked female bodies writhing around like you'd see on a sign in front of a strip club. ....

Are they white or black females?

[go bowe]

I'm sure you are right about some of this, but I'm not convinced that that's what the ad makers were going for.

I thought the controversy with TO was just about a woman "baring it all" (kinda) on MNF, but I don't doubt that there were some penchiefs out there with super sensitive racism detectors at work. I would guess that diehard racists could find hints of racism in just about any social setting that involves race mixing.i agree, i don't think that's what the ad makers were going for...

looks to me that it was more likely an unintentional thing...

unless it came from dick cheney that is... :evil:

[penchief]

The only smear I see here is the democrats smearing the producers of that commercial by calling them racists.

It's not even the racist aspect that is most despicable. It's the fact that they even stoop to the levels that they do in those two ads. They must think their base are some real dumbshits. Zero substance related to issues; lies and innuendo intended to cast suspicion of and aversion toward Ford.

It's slimy. Republicans should be ashamed. When are they ever going to talk about issues? They've avoided issues and attacked character ever since Reagan's belittling of Carter worked so well. The problem is that republicans continue to get sleazier and sleazier.

Does a thoughtful person like yourself sincerely defend this kind of nonsense? This kind of destructive behavior? What will it take for you to denounce the shameless dishonesty of your republican party. Might doesn't make right.

[penchief]

Are they white or black females?

Why does it matter? He's a single black man who likes strippers. And we know this because Karl Rove and Ken Mehlman have summoned the spirit of Andy Warhol to create an ad guaranteed to repel their base.

I loved the XXX in blood red drifting through frame and lazily disappearing behind Harold Ford's head as they talk about his giving abortion pills to high school kids.

[Ultra Peanut]

Political ads: ATTACK! (http://asap.ap.org/data/interactives/_news/podcast/1026asap_campaign_attack.mp3)

[penchief]

Political ads: ATTACK! (http://asap.ap.org/data/interactives/_news/podcast/1026asap_campaign_attack.mp3)

The problem is that 90% of the garbage being spewed is not even political but personal, dishonest, and irrelevant. If this is how some people behave during campaigns I can't understand how anyone would even let them near the reins of government. Anybody that would run ads like the RNC is running in Tennessee are not fit to be leaders, IMO.

[Ultra Peanut]

It's so bad, even Corker's trying to distance himself from it. Not that his "Ah'm just a wonderful person with a lovely family, unlike my demon spawn opponent" ads are much better, but it's somewhat amusing to see an ad that made my eyes roll so violently get so much heat.

The replacement for it is supposedly even worse. LMAO

[patteeu]

It's not even the racist aspect that is most despicable. It's the fact that they even stoop to the levels that they do in those two ads. They must think their base are some real dumbshits. Zero substance related to issues; lies and innuendo intended to cast suspicion of and aversion toward Ford.

It's slimy. Republicans should be ashamed. When are they ever going to talk about issues? They've avoided issues and attacked character ever since Reagan's belittling of Carter worked so well. The problem is that republicans continue to get sleazier and sleazier.

Does a thoughtful person like yourself sincerely defend this kind of nonsense? This kind of destructive behavior? What will it take for you to denounce the shameless dishonesty of your republican party. Might doesn't make right.

For a democrat, I actually like Harold Ford Jr. (although I'd certainly rather have that seat stay Republican), but I think that ad is one of the funniest political ads I've ever seen. I have no problem with it whatsoever.

[patteeu]

For those who see racism in this ad, why was a black woman cast as the person who says "Harold Ford looks nice, isn't that enough?" That's some real subtle stuff. ;)

[banyon]

For those who see racism in this ad, why was a black woman cast as the person who says "Harold Ford looks nice, isn't that enough?" That's some real subtle stuff. ;)

So, she's cast as the gullible idiot? Yeah, that helps. :rolleyes:

[patteeu]

So, she's cast as the gullible idiot? Yeah, that helps. :rolleyes:

Everyone in that ad is cast as a gullible idiot. Did you not get that?

[Iowanian]

I thought the ad was tacky, and cheesy, but don't see the racist connection.

In any other aspect of life and media, it seems that it would be MORE acceptable if there were multicultural people in the ads.

Most political ads have an asian, black, woman and white metrosexual.....and the canidate in a new pressed flannel shirt, picking up a bale of hay with a white Agrarian American.

[banyon]

Everyone in that ad is cast as a gullible idiot. Did you not get that?

No, they emphasized various character traits, from sleaze (porn director) to slutty (white woman) to dumb (black woman you mentioned). They did not portray the others as idiotic necessarily.

[patteeu]

No, they emphasized various character traits, from sleaze (porn director) to slutty (white woman) to dumb (black woman you mentioned). They did not portray the others as idiotic necessarily.

The presence of a black woman at the beginning of that ad decimates the paranoid claims of racism, IMO. If they wanted to hit the "OMG he's gonna steal our white women" hot button, they would have cast the first woman as white too.

[banyon]

The presence of a black woman at the beginning of that ad decimates the paranoid claims of racism, IMO. If they wanted to hit the "OMG he's gonna steal our white women" hot button, they would have cast the first woman as white too.


Why does it have to be that explicit to be effective? You're clutching at straws here.

[patteeu]

Why does it have to be that explicit to be effective? You're clutching at straws here.

The people clutching at straws are the people worrying about racism where it doesn't exist (or where even if it does exist is so well concealed that it is easily mistaken for lacking any racist component at all).

There is just as much, if not more, reason to believe that Jack Murtha and Nancy Pelosi (among other democrats) want us to lose in Iraq as there is to believe that this ad is racist. In both cases, facts that can be explained in other, less odious ways also happen to be facts that are consistent with the more odious interpretation.

[Chiefnj]

The advertisement is stupid and sleezy IMO, not racist.

Why the insinuation that he parties with women at the Playboy mansion?

[patteeu]

Why does it have to be that explicit to be effective? You're clutching at straws here.

You are arguing for a position that when extrapolated would suggest that any ad that showed a thousand women expressing sexual interest in Ford is potentially racist if even only one of them is white. That's subtle to the point of nonexistance.

And if all 1000 of them were black it would be racist because it shows black women as sluts.

Please.

[patteeu]

The advertisement is stupid and sleezy IMO, not racist.

Why the insinuation that he parties with women at the Playboy mansion?

It's not about the mansion. Supposedly, he attended a playboy party at the Super Bowl. He doesn't deny it and, in fact, says he likes football and women so I suspect it is true. I don't see anything wrong with it, but I don't see anything racist or off limits about pointing it out in a campaign ad either.

[banyon]

You are arguing for a position that when extrapolated would suggest that any ad that showed a thousand women expressing sexual interest in Ford is potentially racist if even only one of them is white. That's subtle to the point of nonexistance.

And if all 1000 of them were black it would be racist because it shows black women as sluts.

Please.

What other woman shows sexual interest in Ford in the ad?

[Ultra Peanut]

Most political ads have an asian, black, woman and white metrosexual.....and the canidate in a new pressed flannel shirt, picking up a bale of hay with a white Agrarian American.That's so painfully true it hurts.

[patteeu]

What other woman shows sexual interest in Ford in the ad?

There is a black woman at the beginning of the commercial and the white woman from the playboy party. Both show sexual interest in Ford.

[CHIEF4EVER]

Pointing out implicit racism does not make the whistleblower a racist.

Yea. What he said. I'm pissed because they keep making WHITE paper and BLACK pens. Why can't it be the other way around? Because they are RACIST! THOSE BIGOTED BASTARDS!!!!!!!! :cuss: LMAO

[penchief]

Pointing out implicit racism does not make the whistleblower a racist.

That's how the right-wing plays it though. It's just like when they accuse the left of "waging" class warfare because democrats point out the actual class warfare being carried out by the republican party.

It doesn't suprise me that republican party apologists would feign ignorance and then smugly suggest that the other guy is seeing race where they don't, therefore, the other guy must be racist.

The more I think about it the more I'm beginning to recognize anti-social behavior as a driving force within the republican party. They've begun to institutionalize anti-social behavior.

[banyon]

There is a black woman at the beginning of the commercial and the white woman from the playboy party. Both show sexual interest in Ford.

She says he "looks nice". :spock:

Has your mother ever said you look nice?

I mean..really. :shake:

[patteeu]

She says he "looks nice". :spock:

Has your mother ever said you look nice?

I mean..really. :shake:

Hasn't your mother ever said, "Call me."

You might be used to picking up chicks with your sparkling personality and some might do it on the basis of a fat wallet or celebrity, but it's fairly common for guys to dress nice, go to the gym, comb their hair, etc. so that they can "look nice" for the ladies because in many cases that's the first level of attraction. They aren't going through those motions so their mom will say they look nice.

If it had been a guy with a lisp saying that HF Jr. "looked nice and that's all that was important" would we be hearing that the GOP was trying to imply that Ford was gay or would it seem like it's just a friendly compliment like your mother might give you.

I know you went to KU, but I'm still confident that you already knew this.

[banyon]

Hasn't your mother ever said, "Call me."

You might be used to picking up chicks with your sparkling personality and some might do it on the basis of a fat wallet or celebrity, but it's fairly common for guys to dress nice, go to the gym, comb their hair, etc. so that they can "look nice" for the ladies because in many cases that's the first level of attraction. They aren't going through those motions so their mom will say they look nice.

If it had been a guy with a lisp saying that HF Jr. "looked nice and that's all that was important" would we be hearing that the GOP was trying to imply that Ford was gay or would it seem like it's just a friendly compliment like your mother might give you.

I know you went to KU, but I'm still confident that you already knew this.

Give it up, there is no sexual intonation in her voice whatsoever as there is in the white chick's voice and eye contact.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/images/emoticons/026.gif

[patteeu]

Give it up, there is no sexual intonation in her voice whatsoever as there is in the white chick's voice and eye contact.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/images/emoticons/026.gif

:rolleyes:

I'd take you more seriously if you took the same face-value approach to the racism issue that's been raised.

When I said there was "sexual interest" I wasn't suggesting that the chick was drooling over the prospect of sucking the guy's penis. BTW, there's nothing at all wrong with sexual interest, it's human nature.

[tiptap]

Last night Ford said this about his visit to the Playboy party at the SuperBowl Game. "I like football and I like women and that both goes a long way here in Tennessee."

[banyon]

:rolleyes:

I'd take you more seriously if you took the same face-value approach to the racism issue that's been raised.

When I said there was "sexual interest" I wasn't suggesting that the chick was drooling over the prospect of sucking the guy's penis. BTW, there's nothing at all wrong with sexual interest, it's human nature.

No kidding.

The black woman didn't show any, the white woman did, and the people who made the ad knew that's what it would look like.

Your attempt to manufacture some sort of even-handed approach to this out of thin air is an interesting excercise in sophistry, perhaps, but doesn't change the content of the ad whatsoever.

[patteeu]

No kidding.

The black woman didn't show any, the white woman did, and the people who made the ad knew that's what it would look like.

Your attempt to manufacture some sort of even-handed approach to this out of thin air is an interesting excercise in sophistry, perhaps, but doesn't change the content of the ad whatsoever.

I guess the message is in the eye of the beholder. I see human nature in this ad, you see nefarious undertone.

I'm not attributing this to you, but I suspect that it is a democrat strategy to find racism anywhere they can in these ads (whether it's there or not) so that they can try to keep blacks from leaving the plantation.

Who stands to gain if the makers of this ad designed it with a racist undertone? Not the Republicans because anyone who hates blacks because of the color of their skin were going to vote against HF Jr. anyway. What's the goal? The group of swing voters who might have voted for HF Jr. until they "learned" that he might want to poke a white woman has got to be pretty damn small.

Who stands to gain if there is no racism in the ad but if the democrats succeed in convincing people that there is? Democrats, bigtime. Blacks who might have voted Republican will reconsider. White swing voters who are turned off by racism will also be hesitant to vote for racists.

I know that someone else made this point earlier, but maybe you didn't notice it. Have I missed something here?

[banyon]

I guess the message is in the eye of the beholder. I see human nature in this ad, you see nefarious undertone.

I'm not attributing this to you, but I suspect that it is a democrat strategy to find racism anywhere they can in these ads (whether it's there or not) so that they can try to keep blacks from leaving the plantation.

Who stands to gain if the makers of this ad designed it with a racist undertone? Not the Republicans because anyone who hates blacks because of the color of their skin were going to vote against HF Jr. anyway. What's the goal? The group of swing voters who might have voted for HF Jr. until they "learned" that he might want to poke a white woman has got to be pretty damn small.

Who stands to gain if there is no racism in the ad but if the democrats succeed in convincing people that there is? Democrats, bigtime. Blacks who might have voted Republican will reconsider. White swing voters who are turned off by racism will also be hesitant to vote for racists.

I know that someone else made this point earlier, but maybe you didn't notice it. Have I missed something here?

You don't believe that Republicans can gain votes by subtly appealing to voters with racial biases? There are people whose racial prejudice isn't as overt and may have considered voting for HF Jr, until this ad "reminded" them why not to.

[patteeu]

You don't believe that Republicans can gain votes by subtly appealing to voters with racial biases? There are people whose racial prejudice isn't as overt and may have considered voting for HF Jr, until this ad "reminded" them why not to.

I think that that group is very tiny. Much smaller than the group that would be affected if the dems succeed in tarring the Republican candidate as racist.

Looking at this from the other direction, what do you think about the size of the group of people who would refuse to vote for a candidate if they became convinced that that candidate was racist? How does the size of this group compare to the size of the group that you say might be "reminded" that they don't like black guys poking their white women?

[banyon]

I think that that group is very tiny. Much smaller than the group that would be affected if the dems succeed in tarring the Republican candidate as racist.

Then maybe the TN Repubs should've been smart enough not to put this ad out there so such a charge would stick.

[Baby Lee]

Last night Ford said this about his visit to the Playboy party at the SuperBowl Game. "I like football and I like women and that both goes a long way here in Tennessee."
And ironically Andrew Sullivan later said "If Karl Rove were Ford's campaign manager, he would've had Ford say 'yes I like women, while Republicans apparently like boys.' but Dems are too 'classy' for that,"
When it was clear that that was an intonation of Ford's initial remark, particularly in light of Maher's surrounding questions.

[patteeu]

Then maybe the TN Repubs should've been smart enough not to put this ad out there so such a charge would stick.

The charge doesn't appear to have stuck in any significant way as indicated by the slow response to calls for it to be withdrawn. If it ends up working for the dems, you might be right.

Hey, maybe the TN Repubs are double secret smart and they put it out there to lure the bumbling democrats into making this ridiculous charge. Is Karl Rove secretly advising this independent group? :shrug:

[patteeu]

On This Week with George Stephanopolous, the host expressed the opinion this ad was aimed at painting Ford as a "player" (in contrast to the image he's trying to present as a church going traditionalist), not as an appeal to racists who might fear a black man macking on white women. I think he's right.

[banyon]

On This Week with George Stephanopolous, the host expressed the opinion this ad was aimed at painting Ford as a "player" (in contrast to the image he's trying to present as a church going traditionalist), not as an appeal to racists who might fear a black man macking on white women. I think he's right.

Yeah, that's the way it's going to play in Pigeon Forge. :rolleyes:

The Clintonian midget is wrong on this one.