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chasedude
11-01-2006, 06:50 AM
I need help with stats that will help me justify from switching a 1.5 up and 1.5 down wireless broadband connection to a T1 connection. All they heads above me can see is a increase in $400 a month. I'm a Network Admin for a NPO (Non-Profit) company so our funds are limited. I know that putting us on a T1 means the network will then be on a backbone, and much faster at connecting and transmitting speeds.. I have 19 VPN locations that are not up to par under the current situation . Do you guys have some ideas (REAL IDEAS) that will help me plead my case? Thanks

seclark
11-01-2006, 06:52 AM
you can tell them that Christmas is coming up...
sec

chasedude
11-01-2006, 06:53 AM
I don't think that one will work

JonesCrusher
11-01-2006, 06:56 AM
Go Y2K on them, tell them if they don't upgrade their organization will cease to exist

StcChief
11-01-2006, 07:03 AM
Goals of organization that T1 will make it better.
This must align with business. NP or not.

WHAT is your SLA (service level agreement) for customers 19 remote locations.

If you don't have customers asking and business goal for improvement.

Your screwed, no matter how much you want T1.

JonesCrusher
11-01-2006, 07:03 AM
Maybe they are right, a NPO is not as concerned about speed and productivity. If you can't think of way to justify maybe it really is not that necessary

Dartgod
11-01-2006, 07:11 AM
I need help with stats that will help me justify from switching a 1.5 up and 1.5 down wireless broadband connection to a T1 connection.
You'll be able to download your pr0n quicker? :shrug:

Craash
11-01-2006, 07:14 AM
I need help with stats that will help me justify from switching a 1.5 up and 1.5 down wireless broadband connection to a T1 connection. All they heads above me can see is a increase in $400 a month. I'm a Network Admin for a NPO (Non-Profit) company so our funds are limited. I know that putting us on a T1 means the network will then be on a backbone, and much faster at connecting and transmitting speeds.. I have 19 VPN locations that are not up to par under the current situation . Do you guys have some ideas (REAL IDEAS) that will help me plead my case? Thanks


You didn't state that you are currently having issues with the wireless pipe you currently have. Is it really 1.5 up/down? That is somewhat unique for any type of lower end connection. Assuming it is, you MIGHT not see a huge difference between the wireless and the T1. Just because you have a T1 doens't mean you will be on the 'backbone'. That is controlled by the provider you use. Over selling is a very common practice in the industry, and if the provider isn't a tier 1 provider, or a resaler of tier 1 providers, chances are you will be routed through smaller pipes (T3, OC3, etc) with all the other providers customers before you every reach the 'backbone' on the 'net.

Before we can start to justify the line, we'll need to know what you are trying to accomplish that you can't with the existing pipe. From what little information you have provided so far, I would suggest it doesn't look positive.

Braincase
11-01-2006, 07:15 AM
Compare the size of the pipe and degree of network saturation.

Consider the cost of properly implementing security on wireless broadband, i.e. implementing a Public Key Infrastructure, training, overhead involved in the implementation of WEP, WPA, PEAP.

When your packets are out there in the air, they're easier to sniff out and hijack, leading to additional security costs to properly secure. Download AirSnort & Kismet to demonstrate security flaws in basic WEP implementation.

Also, consider the shared medium saturation rate of wireless compared to the switched 100 Mbps.

chasedude
11-01-2006, 07:54 AM
You didn't state that you are currently having issues with the wireless pipe you currently have. Is it really 1.5 up/down? That is somewhat unique for any type of lower end connection. Assuming it is, you MIGHT not see a huge difference between the wireless and the T1. Just because you have a T1 doens't mean you will be on the 'backbone'. That is controlled by the provider you use. Over selling is a very common practice in the industry, and if the provider isn't a tier 1 provider, or a resaler of tier 1 providers, chances are you will be routed through smaller pipes (T3, OC3, etc) with all the other providers customers before you every reach the 'backbone' on the 'net.

Before we can start to justify the line, we'll need to know what you are trying to accomplish that you can't with the existing pipe. From what little information you have provided so far, I would suggest it doesn't look positive.

The Company I've been pricing is through AT&T and it is a Tier 1 provider, so I know It would take less hops to get to me. The pipeline I have now is supposed to be a 1.5 synchronis connection with a wireless (cable) company. I don't think I'm getting the full connection speed. All of my VPN spots are all within my company and they are either hooked on a DSL or Cable connection averaging 1.5 down and 384 up.

The only issues I have with the service here is the occasional drop in connectivity, nothing unusual.

I have a file server that is used quite frequently, an exchange server and a web server. Exchange and the file server get to be issues at my locations. Slow downloading from thier locations to update mail boxes or even download a 37k excel file. I'm hoping to increase these speeds so everyone would be more productive, I get alot of grips about the speeds of my "H Drive". The webserver seems to run fine and I've monitored the load on my server's and I'm no where near the capcity.

chasedude
11-01-2006, 07:56 AM
Compare the size of the pipe and degree of network saturation.

Consider the cost of properly implementing security on wireless broadband, i.e. implementing a Public Key Infrastructure, training, overhead involved in the implementation of WEP, WPA, PEAP.

When your packets are out there in the air, they're easier to sniff out and hijack, leading to additional security costs to properly secure. Download AirSnort & Kismet to demonstrate security flaws in basic WEP implementation.

Also, consider the shared medium saturation rate of wireless compared to the switched 100 Mbps.

What "I" mean by wireless is I have a satellite receiver on the roof connecting to tower located a few miles away. That is the current connection I have. I believe it runs @ 900mhz if that matters at all.

Simplex3
11-01-2006, 07:58 AM
If you're correct and you have a 1.5d/1.5u DSL line you have an aggregate bandwidth of 3Mb. A T1 will only afford you 1.54Mb of data shared between up and down. You'll lose about half your speed. Your CPE costs will also go waaaay up. T1s aren't cheap to terminate.

Simplex3
11-01-2006, 07:59 AM
Ok, you're using some sort of long range wireless, so your CPE costs won't go up. You've already dropped a fortune. ROFL

Otter
11-01-2006, 08:50 AM
This is the software I use when I have a choice for monitoring networks:

Network Traffic Monitor Analysis Report 6.2

Collect stats for a three month period, create a fancy bar graph showing how the network is overburdened and how improvements will increase company efficiency and yada, yada, yada.

Remember; statistics are like easy women, once you have them you can do whatever you want.

Otter
11-01-2006, 08:51 AM
Ok, you're using some sort of long range wireless, so your CPE costs won't go up. You've already dropped a fortune. ROFL

ROFL

You should be fired!!!

ROFL

chasedude
11-01-2006, 09:56 AM
Here's an update for you. After contacting the tech support for my ISP, I found out that they had us in the system as a default account (1.5 down and 384 up). We are being billed for the 1.5 synchronis connection but were not receiving what we were paying for. They've changed the settings now for our correct connection. Now I'm trying to get credited for the extra $10 a month we've had to pay for the last 3 years for the better upload.

chasedude
11-01-2006, 09:58 AM
This is the software I use when I have a choice for monitoring networks:

Network Traffic Monitor Analysis Report 6.2

Collect stats for a three month period, create a fancy bar graph showing how the network is overburdened and how improvements will increase company efficiency and yada, yada, yada.

Remember; statistics are like easy women, once you have them you can do whatever you want.

I'll try this software. Thanks for the info!!

Simplex3
11-01-2006, 12:10 PM
Here's an update for you. After contacting the tech support for my ISP, I found out that they had us in the system as a default account (1.5 down and 384 up). We are being billed for the 1.5 synchronis connection but were not receiving what we were paying for. They've changed the settings now for our correct connection. Now I'm trying to get credited for the extra $10 a month we've had to pay for the last 3 years for the better upload.
Holy crap. You're only paying an extra $10/mo to go from 384 to 1.5Mb up? Dude, you most certainly do NOT want a T1.

htismaqe
11-01-2006, 12:13 PM
If you're correct and you have a 1.5d/1.5u DSL line you have an aggregate bandwidth of 3Mb. A T1 will only afford you 1.54Mb of data shared between up and down. You'll lose about half your speed. Your CPE costs will also go waaaay up. T1s aren't cheap to terminate.

Incorrect.

T1's are full-duplex.

htismaqe
11-01-2006, 12:16 PM
Reasons for going to T1:

1) SLA's are generally MUCH better. Most Tier 1 providers (AT&T, UUNet) provide 4-hour response SLA's. Restoration SLA's for broadband are often "best effort" which means you could be down 24 hours or more.

2) Most broadband providers don't guarantee passage of IPSec (VPN) traffic and some even filter them. This won't be an issue with a T1.

3) Standard oversubscription rates across the industry for time-division multiplexed networks (ie. anything other than cable) are much higher for DSL than for T1. Residential DSL is often 12:1 or 16:1, business DSL 8:1 or 10:1. T1's can be as low as 4:1.

Redrum_69
11-01-2006, 12:18 PM
Man, you guys are all f*kn wrong.

Stay the hell out of the telecommunications field and stick to something like...connect-the-dots or maybe tic-tac-toe.

Simplex3
11-01-2006, 12:25 PM
Incorrect.

T1's are full-duplex.
Yes, but the total bandwidth is 1.54Mb/s. He has 3Mb/s split evenly between up and down. His situation is akin to a send only T1 and a receive only T1.

A T1 is 24 channels with a total of 56k each for 1.54Mb total. If you have a 756k download going right now you have only 756k left for either up or down transfer. He would have 756k of down left and still have his full 1.5 up available with his current setup.

wutamess
11-01-2006, 12:26 PM
What are they wrong about?

Simplex3
11-01-2006, 12:26 PM
Man, you guys are all f*kn wrong.

Stay the hell out of the telecommunications field and stick to something like...connect-the-dots or maybe tic-tac-toe.
I connected my tic-tac-toe to your mom's dot in a field last night, then I called your dad to tell him.

htismaqe
11-01-2006, 12:47 PM
Yes, but the total bandwidth is 1.54Mb/s. He has 3Mb/s split evenly between up and down. His situation is akin to a send only T1 and a receive only T1.

A T1 is 24 channels with a total of 56k each for 1.54Mb total. If you have a 756k download going right now you have only 756k left for either up or down transfer. He would have 756k of down left and still have his full 1.5 up available with his current setup.

Not true.

A T1 is full-duplex. I can transmit 1.5Mb and receive 1.5Mb simultaneously.

chasedude
11-01-2006, 03:22 PM
Not true.

A T1 is full-duplex. I can transmit 1.5Mb and receive 1.5Mb simultaneously.

Right, that's what I thought it was. The only big bonus is to be on the Tier 1 frame with the T1. But as I discovered in talking with my tech support, they had me set at the slower speed's even though the company has been charged for the full 1.5 for 4 yrs. I've only been here since July of 06 and I'm still trying to fine tune this network from the last guy.

htismaqe
11-01-2006, 06:01 PM
Right, that's what I thought it was. The only big bonus is to be on the Tier 1 frame with the T1. But as I discovered in talking with my tech support, they had me set at the slower speed's even though the company has been charged for the full 1.5 for 4 yrs. I've only been here since July of 06 and I'm still trying to fine tune this network from the last guy.

You'll only be directly on the backbone if you buy a T1 from a backbone provider. In all seriousness, unless you buy a T1 from AT&T, Sprintlink, or UUNet, you're not on the backbone. Everybody else is, for the most part, regional.

But the biggest benefit isn't really being on the backbone, it's the service level agreements.

Simply Red
11-01-2006, 06:26 PM
I need help with stats that will help me justify from switching a 1.5 up and 1.5 down wireless broadband connection to a T1 connection. All they heads above me can see is a increase in $400 a month. I'm a Network Admin for a NPO (Non-Profit) company so our funds are limited. I know that putting us on a T1 means the network will then be on a backbone, and much faster at connecting and transmitting speeds.. I have 19 VPN locations that are not up to par under the current situation . Do you guys have some ideas (REAL IDEAS) that will help me plead my case? Thanks


Hey J. Call me on my cell. I'll pm you the #

Simplex3
11-01-2006, 08:54 PM
Not true.

A T1 is full-duplex. I can transmit 1.5Mb and receive 1.5Mb simultaneously.
I'll be damned. I've only ever had one data T1 and all I remember was that it was outragously expensive for the poor speed we got. We didn't host anything on it, it was purely for us to consume things from the web.

I used to install T1s and PRIs for voice all the time and never gave a crap about the total bandwidth so long as it carried the voice and didn't echo.

Garcia Bronco
11-01-2006, 09:04 PM
Every problem is an opportunity in disguise

dtebbe
11-01-2006, 09:48 PM
That sounds expensive to me. I've got an offer on the table from Network Telephone (aka Talk America) for a full T1 provisioned for 4 telephone lines and 1000 minutes of outgoing LD for $261/month. Basically anytime a phone line is in use you lose 64k of bankwidth. There is also some housekeeping overhead, but you still end up with about 1.2mbps thruput most of the time. Solid SLA too.

DT

dtebbe
11-01-2006, 09:52 PM
Man, you guys are all f*kn wrong.

Stay the hell out of the telecommunications field and stick to something like...connect-the-dots or maybe tic-tac-toe with your mama's ti!ties.

I fixed this, Redrum is slipping....

big nasty kcnut
11-01-2006, 09:58 PM
Well go to a provider that might let you get a upgrade free and they would write it off as a tax write off.