View Full Version : Trade down? Not me. I trade up with the Hawks!
01-11-2001, 11:00 AM
First off, let me say I am very excited about the changes being made in Arrowhead. However, with a new regime comming in, I don't expect us to go to the Super Bowl next season. Maybe the playoffs, but not the Super Bowl. With a new OC, and DC comming in, it will take some time to adjust to new systems, so here are some things I would consider. Again this is just my opinion, just like you all have yours.
I would offer the Seahawks a trade. Holmgren is coveting a QB, so I would offer him Grbac, if he is interested, (please finish reading before you get in an uproar), a 3rd and a 4th in exchange for the 7th pick in this years draft and their 2nd round pick.
This would give the Seahawks (BTW, I don't think we will be in the same division come 2002) a QB, and leave them with their 10th pick to get whatever else they want in round 1.
Then, as far as the Chiefs go, I would pick up a FA QB like Shane Matthews (doesn't have to be him), and draft a QB in the 3rd round to groom such as Tuiasosopo from Washington. Then after the draft, I would offer next years 3rd round pick to the Pats for the rights to Micheal Bishop (With all the money they are going to spend on Bledsoe, you know Bishop is never going to start there). That gives us a starter for the short term, and 2 good prospects for the near future.
With the 2 first round picks, #7 and #12, and the Seahawks 2nd round pick, multiple options would be available. We could pick up 3 great players to play imediately. I'll let you plug the draft picks in the way you want them.
One last thing. No, I am not down on Grbac. I just think this would be a win-win trade for both teams.
01-11-2001, 11:12 AM
Coogs - Doesn't happen. Holmgren is not going to make a trade like that with a divsional opp, unless he knows that one of us is not going to be in the same division the season after next.
I also have issues with going out and to continue our QB merry-go-round must stop, I'm so sick of switching QB's all the darn time and we finally have one that works well with the players we have.
01-11-2001, 11:14 AM
You do NOT trade away a 4000 yard passer.... for <i>anything</i>! (unless, of course, it is for a <i>younger</i> 4000 yd passer) ;)
01-11-2001, 11:16 AM
The plane! The plane!
01-11-2001, 11:17 AM
I think Grbac will end up in Seattle. But he will force his release by holding the line on the bonus. KC and King Carl, who wrote the contract that stipulates a 10 mil. bonus, get only compensatory picks from the league. If Elvis wants to reunite with Holmgren, he can do it on his own terms and help his future team at the same time.
01-11-2001, 11:30 AM
Why would Elvis go to Seattle? Both of their quarterbacks got killed this year. Not to mention, their receivers suck. E isn't going anywhere.
01-11-2001, 11:30 AM
Brock, Maybe this is my fantasy, but picture this for a bit. With the 7th pick we get Morgan from Miami. With the 12th pick we take Polley (sp) from Florida St. Switch to the 3-4 defense with Hicks and Clemons at the ends and Chet in the middle. LB corps have Edwards and Polley as outside LB's and Morgan and Maz at inside LB's.
Then in the 2nd round, with the influx of Juniors comming out, we could get a very fine RB (quick note, not all teams NEED a RB, so there should be a very good one available at this spot).
01-11-2001, 11:34 AM
What the hell are you smoking, Coogs?
01-11-2001, 11:37 AM
All very well, but on top of a drastically different Defensive scheme, we're stuck with Shane Matthews hooking up with the strength of our entire team (our receivers), and Bishop and Tuiasosopo in the wings. I often agree with your posts, but not this time ;) No offense to all you Big 12 fans, but Michael Bishop is like the Brian Shay of QBs IMO. Why not just keep Elvis, and get Tuiasosopo (who I'd like) in the 3rd round anyway, and take a LB or Travis Henry in the 1st? Let's not fix what's not broken (the passing game), and work on our glaring needs (RB, LB, CB, overpaid D-line). JMO.
01-11-2001, 11:39 AM
A 3-4 D... and no QB!
no thanks. Interesting scenario - but not feasible IMO.
01-11-2001, 11:43 AM
It's a moot point anyway..Holmgren is Not interested in Grbac. Maybe Brunell, but not Grbac..
[Edited by Joe Seahawk on 01-11-2001 at 11:53 AM]
01-11-2001, 11:52 AM
you tend to make some good points, but on this one...have you been holding your breath for a long time this morning?;)
Elvis isn't going to Seattle.
01-11-2001, 11:54 AM
Sorry Coogs...can't go for this one ! 4000 yds + and trade for many ?'s...NO !
I enjoy thoughts out of the box.
I agree that this is raw fantasy, but a 3-4 with Edwards, Maslowski, Morgan and Polley gave me a warm fuzzy.
daydreaming of crushed QBs on the Arrowhead turf.
01-11-2001, 12:02 PM
First, to trade Grbac, he has to retain Grbac, which means give him the 10 mil, which still counts against OUR cap. And if he doesn't retain him, he has no trade value because he is a free agent. Elvis will sign about a 6 or 7 yr contract, big signing bonus, with salaries backloaded in the final two years. Or tell Carl to go take a leap.
01-11-2001, 12:02 PM
Darrell Jackson lead all rookie recievers in yds and tds, with Kitna and Huard. Two top 10 picks will bring another reciever like Santana Moss. Shaun Alexander. A Superbowl winning coach that Elvis has played for before. Booed at home after passing for 4000 yds. Compared (unfavorably) to Rich Gannon np matter what he accomplishes. I would not assume Elvis returns.
01-11-2001, 12:03 PM
Now gaz...can't believe you left out Patton and Bush! hehehehe..ROTHLMAO......HOLD ME BACK! :D
01-11-2001, 12:09 PM
Fellas, Not smokin' anything. I would prefer to have a dominating defense again. Again, this is just my thoughts on what I might do.
On Grbac. Yes, he is a 4 grand passer, which make him worth the 1st round pick. But look at the D in Baltimore with Trent Dilfer at the helm, and the Giants with Kerry Collins at the controls. they both have legitimate shots this weekend to advance.
Personally, I feel we have better skill people than both of those teams at WR, TE, and FB. Upgrade the defense, and bring in a FA QB for the time being. Everyone, including Grbac, would be learning a new system this year anyway, so why not upgrade the defense now. Add the RB to the mix this year(Jackson form Miami in round 2 is my choice), then watch the dividends pay off the following year.
01-11-2001, 12:20 PM
BTW, I think this defensive look (3-4) is a good option with these players. Things go in cycles, and it is about time for the 3-4 to come back around. i would rather be on the front end of the cycle than the back end after everyone else is doing it, so let's do it too.
With Wesley and Woods at the saftey spots, and those 7 up front, I think our corners we now have would be more than adaquate.
Again, I would love to see our defense dominate a game like the Titans, Eagles, Giants, and Ravens are now doing.
Sacrificing a little O for a lot of D!
01-11-2001, 12:23 PM
It never fails to amaze me how people find new ways to dump on EG. The man has proven over the last two years that he's a quality QB who can lead this team. So now we have threads suggesting trading him to an AFC West team where he'll face us twice yearly. And to top it off replacing him with another backup QB and a baby QB who's reportedly a mental midget.
Hey I know why don't we keep EG and trade Gonzo?! If EG's worth a 1st and replacement QB's are so plentiful then what would a pro-bowl TE be worth? I'm sure we could replace Gonzo with Ben Coates or someone.
Our O is working rather well. Our D is broken. Fix what's broken. Draft Shaun Rodgers, D. Lewis, Polley or Morgan.
01-11-2001, 12:25 PM
Sorry Coogs but the "sacrifice a little O for a killer D" idea got us 3 playoff appearances and ZERO playoff wins in the 90's...I'd like to see a NEW direction for the team...
CLARIFICATION: The year we did win and got beat by Buffalo (93?) we went out and got Montana and Marcus...that year I didn't include because it defied the "sacrifice some O" theme...and of course, that's the year we won. Bring on some OFFENSE!
[Edited by htismaqe on 01-11-2001 at 12:28 PM]
01-11-2001, 12:27 PM
Perhaps I'm mistaken but I thought one of the drawbacks of the 3-4 was that it was weak against the run. Since we play six games against Denver, Seattle, and Oakland we should tailor our D to stop their running games. Per what I understand about the game you do that with major beef on the Dline and quick LB's in a 4-3.
01-11-2001, 12:30 PM
I'm not dumping on EG! Heck, I saying a EG, a 3rd, and a 4th for the rights to the Hawks 7th overall pick and thier 2nd rounder. I don't think that is dumping on anyone at all.
[Edited by Coogs on 01-11-2001 at 12:38 PM]
01-11-2001, 12:38 PM
After reading my initial reply perhaps I was a little strident Coogs. I guess I'm a little defensive after my EG wars with Denise.
You may not be purposely dumping on EG but indirectly you are. If someone suggested my farcial Gonzo trade they'd be skewered and rightly so. Gonzo is the best TE in the game. EG is not the best QB, but I'd say he's in the top 5. He would garner some major picks but he'd also leave a major hole and would indicate that we're burning it all down and starting over. That's not needed nor appropriate. Fix our D and fine tune our O and get a clue on ST and this team will be something special.
01-11-2001, 12:44 PM
All is forgiven! This is just my direction. As for the 3-4 being weak against the rush, the Steelers finished with the 7th rated defense overall, and 10th against the rush. I don't recall all of their schedule, but I do know they played twice each against Dillon, Taylor (if healthy?), George, and at least the Raiders. I think it would workd against the West!
Admits feeling sorry for the Eagles and Titans last weekend.
01-11-2001, 12:51 PM
One other thing ck, I'm not thouroghly convinced we are going to be able to keep EG inspite that many of you all are sure that we will be able to do that. Would rather take my chances with a trade if it doesn't look like a deal can be struck with EG.
01-11-2001, 12:52 PM
If stats are used to defend EG, I have some comparison stats.
Grbac 2000 4169 yards, 28 TD's, 89.9 rating
Jeff George 1995 4143 yards, 24 TD's, 89.5 rating
Jeff George 1997 3917 yards, 29 TD's, 91.2 rating
Intangables? "I can only throw it, I can't catch it too."
"I would be interested in backing up Couch."
I can live with or without Grbac, but what has EG done to deserve the type of contract it will take to keep him?
01-11-2001, 01:50 PM
Blondie - Holmgren was named coach of Green Bay in 1992, while Elvis was not drafted to the Whiners until 1993.
01-11-2001, 02:12 PM
I stand corrected.
01-11-2001, 02:36 PM
I don't feel Grbac has any real trade value, because:
1. In my opinion, he just isn't that good.
2. A sensible team would just wait for him to be released if/when he and the Chiefs can't come to an agreement.
3. His current salary is too high relative to his production.
01-11-2001, 02:41 PM
Having had the 'honour' of watching 'the bearded wonder' (the sobriquet he gave himself in Indy) I can honestly say I'll take a sniper position if Jeffie becomes our QB.
Jeffie is soooo good he's been bounced from 4 teams and is now on his fifth. He is the most selfish, ego-centric, softest, Clintonesque QB to ever pick up a football. My 'fondest' memory of Jeffie in Indy was Bruce Smith working around the LT. Jeffie saw him and did a belly flop. Smith stood over him for a sec, shook his head sadly and touched him down while the entire Hoosier Dome chorused in boos.
A sniper position if he comes. I'm tellin ya.
01-11-2001, 04:40 PM
I am certainly not advocating Jeff George. I am saying that Elvis had a Jeff George type of season. 4000 yards, lots of gaudy stats and few wins. Remember his 500 yards against Oakland? I know that was a team loss, but throwing short of the endzone with time running out? 8 years in the league? And now he is in line for a huge payday. He will not renegotiate that bonus away. He will extend the years to soften the cap hit next year, but eventually it will be due. George production has gotten him what it has deserved, bounced around the league. Elvis's "production" has him in line to break the bank. Elvis has become a legitimate NFL starting QB, but no more IMO. His value does not justify what it will cost to keep him.
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