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gonzo88
01-12-2001, 09:46 AM
"Do the Chiefs know what they are getting? Vermeil was 9-23 in his first two seasons in St. Louis. It took the combined efforts of four men -- Rams president John Shaw, Zygmunt, general manager Charley Armey and (now coach ) Mike Martz -- to strong-arm Vermeil into making many of the dramatic changes needed to revive the Rams in 1999.

"The four men who saved Vermeil in St. Louis won't be there to rescue him in Kansas City."

DaWolf
01-12-2001, 09:51 AM
Wow, the Jason Whitlock of St Louis speaks. Trust everything that is in their fishwrap...

ck_IN
01-12-2001, 09:54 AM
Amazing how <b>everyone</b> was praising this guy this time last year. Now they're trashing him. Ya gotta luv dem die hard fans they have in St. Louis.

58Forever
01-12-2001, 09:57 AM
if Vermeil was such a nothing, why did St. Louis put up such a fight?...seems to me that we have the same types of people to help Vermeil anyway...and, he has the experience of his first two years in St. Louis to remind him not to make the same mistakes...I can't wait till the Governer's Cup game in pre-season....

Clint in Wichita
01-12-2001, 09:58 AM
This isn't recent news. This stuff about Vermeil was reported over a year ago.

BTW, Whitlock was right about Gun's future with the Chiefs.

Our best hope is that DV learned from what happened in StL.

Notorious GUN
01-12-2001, 09:58 AM
This is hardly news.

Vermeil helped keep that team together. He was just as big of a factor as Martz. When he arrived there in 1997 they had no talent. No QB, No RB, the only thing they had on offense was Isaac Bruce. He had to help build that team to where it was in 99. He was just as apart of that as anyone else. Now that he left St. Louis they want to discredit what he has done. What a crock.

Look at what Martz could do with the same team that Vermeil had. He lost the focus of the team, they had no discipline and they couldn't repeat the success. Vermeil held the pieces together in St. Louis.

Vermeil has a lot more talent here, than the 1997 Rams do. The man took 2 different franchises to the Superbowl in 2 different decades after both of them were bottom of the barrell teams when he arrived.

Instead of focusing on his 9-23 record in 2 seasons with the Rams, why don't you spend a little time researching what he did with the Eagles and the 99 Rams. The NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" league, and lately Vermeil won the Superbowl.

Iowanian
01-12-2001, 09:59 AM
this is nothing but sour grapes...

a year ago, if DV had crapped on a paper plate, people in st louis would have lined up for a bite...

Now St Louians, Take your crappy #43 pick, and choke on it..and leave us to our business.

NaptownChief
01-12-2001, 10:01 AM
Well, regardless of who deserves the credit or blame I can assure you that Bill Polian is fresh out of Marshall Faulk's to throw away for a 2nd and a 5...So don't expect any miracles here unless Polian is dumb enough to give up on Edgerrin in the same fashion...

Cannibal
01-12-2001, 10:07 AM
Clint is right, this stuff was reported along time ago... as it happened.

I've been saying it since we hired Vermiel.

Vermiel was on the verge of being fired if he did not accept changes from management. Vermiel was a figurehead. Martz, Faulk, Warner, Bruce and Holt are what won that Superbowl. Vermiel did nothing but do as he was told and stay out of the way.

Clint in Wichita
01-12-2001, 10:08 AM
I can't help but laugh when I think of the fact that KC gave up more for Dickfer Meal than Dickfer Meal gave for Marshall Faulk.

Mark M
01-12-2001, 10:09 AM
What should we expect from a town that didn't know it had a football team until November of '99? A town that had the Cardinals as their football team for so long? A team that plays in an airplane hanger named after an airline company that is now bankrupt?

I'm not a big Vermeil fan, but the one thing I give him major props for his ability to get his team to play as, well, a team. He builds bonds that make the players care about each other, thus creating a situation where they overachieve. Considering the under-achievers we have here, I see Vermiel as a good fit for KC. Of course, I'll only truly believe when I see another Lombardi trophy at One Arrowhead Drive.

Also, any coach is only as good as his assistants. No one can run all the operations of an NFL fanchise. It takes a team effort, and that includes the coaches.

MM
~~Has just found yet another reason why he hates St. Loser.

[Edited by Mark M on 01-12-2001 at 11:13 AM]

Mile High Mania
01-12-2001, 10:10 AM
ck_IN ... it's kinda the same thing that you guys are doing with Gunther. All I've heard is how he's a great DC from most of you on the BB. Now that he *might* go to Denver, he was only good b/c of the players (Gaz) and he couldn't handle 'razzle dazzle'.

Cannibal
01-12-2001, 10:10 AM
"Dickfer Meal" didn't even trade for Marshall Faulk, that was a management decision.

DaWolf
01-12-2001, 10:12 AM
Regarding his first two years which Vermiel detractors LOVE to bring up, they never talk about how pathetic the team was when he got there and how there were only 7 players left from the team he inherited on the Super Bowl team.

"What he did," D'Marco Farr says, "was sacrifice a few good years for one great year. All the guys who didn't get with the program, they're all gone."

Clint in Wichita
01-12-2001, 10:15 AM
Schottenheimer didn't have 2 bad years when he arrived in KC, and DV has much more to work with now than Marty did.

IMO the Chiefs should at least make the playoffs NEXT SEASON.

HC_Chief
01-12-2001, 10:41 AM
I agree. Vermeil is coming into a very good situation: KC is not as bad a team as a 7-9 record would indicate. With competent coaching, improved defensive fundamentals (i.e., tackling), and a few player position upgrades (especially RB), we are a playoff contender.

soliday
01-12-2001, 10:50 AM
Clint,
It's easy to call somebody "cool smack names" like Dickfer Meal, but let me ask you, Would you have the guts to say it to his face?

Soliday

DaWolf
01-12-2001, 10:53 AM
Clint,
Marty also hadn't been away from coaching and modern players for 14 years. Vermiel admitted he had to do a lot of learning on the job his first two years, and had to adapt in order to survive. He should be ready to go this time around. I also expect the playoffs this next year. Carl isn't paying him $10 mil to try and finish 6-10 while seeing if Mike Cloud is any good...

Alton deFlat
01-12-2001, 11:11 AM
If Martz is the reason The Rams won it all last year, why did they fall on their asses this year and back into the playoffs. With this kind of BS, the Rams will always be the stepkids of the NFL in Missouri.

Gaz
01-12-2001, 11:16 AM
MHM-

he was only good b/c of the players (Gaz)

You know that was TIC, right?

xoxo~
gaz
apparently, his smack is far too dry.

Cannibal
01-12-2001, 11:35 AM
If Martz is the reason The Rams won it all last year, why did they fall on their asses this year and back into the playoffs. With this kind of BS, the Rams will always be the stepkids of the NFL in Missouri.

Simple...

Injuries to Kurt Warner and Marshall Faulk and complacency.

Baby Lee
01-12-2001, 11:58 AM
it's kinda the same thing that you guys are doing with Gunther. All I've heard is how he's a great DC from most of you on the BB. Now that he *might* go to Denver, he was only good b/c of the players (Gaz) and he couldn't handle 'razzle dazzle'

MHM - Not the same at all. Gun was [and most probably is] a great DC. I can't speak for everyone, but I personally do not relish the thought of Denver getting what we had in 95-96 on D. I saw the 'razzle-dazzle' comment and it was well-deserved. Gun attributed the first loss of his HCing career, in his first game as HC, to the Bears [with the exception of the FG to put the rams in the Playoffs, probably still the high water mack of their last two years] to a 'razzle-dazzle' offense that he didn't respect, even though it beat him.

Baby Lee
01-12-2001, 12:02 PM
Cannibal - AS we've held as our mantra around here for Oh so long, those things fall back to the HC [or in some cases, the QB]. This especially true for the complacency knock. Reigning SB champs aren't supposed to get complacent.

Alton deFlat
01-12-2001, 12:02 PM
...and who can you blame for this complacency? Simple, let's start with the HC, for letting it get to that point. If one championship is the reason to take it for granted, then your head coach isn't much of a motivater.

DaWolf
01-12-2001, 12:10 PM
Johnny,
Regarding Gun, I was not impressed with the D at all in '96.

Regarding Martz, he did not have the same organizational skills Vermiel did. Many assistants bailed on him. He took it easier on the players. They became soft on D. He still calls a great offensive game though...

Cannibal
01-12-2001, 12:16 PM
Spurt Warner missed 6 games and Faulk missed 2 and parts others.

That was one of the biggest factors.

Most teams that lose their starting QB for 6 games don't even make the playoffs.

DaWolf
01-12-2001, 12:46 PM
Yet Trent Green is worth first rounders...