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View Full Version : THIS is why I am happy with Vermeil's hiring.....


Cormac
01-13-2001, 09:05 AM
From the Star

"Anytime you get a coach who's won some Super Bowls, it would be very difficult not to believe in what he's trying to do," Lockett said. "The one thing he'll have is everybody will believe in his philosophies and what he's trying to do from day one."

If the Chiefs players can play with the passion and confidence that only comes from playing in a system in which they believe - not one in which Donnell Bennett gets fed the ball because "he's a big back" - they could go straight to the top. Last year the players didn't believe. This year they should........

milkman
01-13-2001, 09:18 AM
I am, at this point in time, not happy about Vermeil's hiring, and losing our 2nd rd pick.
However, if his presense lends enough credibility to the Chiefs that players like Shields, Lockett, Hasty, and Grunhard return for another season, then I may have to rethink my position.
Didn't Lockett's comments sound like the comments of a player coming back for another season.

Yosef_Malkovitch
01-13-2001, 09:58 AM
What I liked about him was the veiled warning to McGlockton: "if you don't want to work, you will be gone." Hopefully he takes Williams with him.

Warrior5
01-13-2001, 10:21 AM
Raises my optimism a little bit concerning Lockett staying, as well as Grunhard, Shields, and Hasty (we need THESE veterans), and the baggage getting the boot.
What worried me a bit was the interview with Donnell Bennett. He sounded all enthusiastic about next year. He needs to go!

Cormac
01-13-2001, 10:45 AM
Milkman,

I still think that a 2nd rounder is a SMALL price to pay for getting rid of the 4 stooges, and replacing them with a SB winning coach. We have often said that CP is too conservative, and he needs to trade up or pony up the cash or whatever, to get a proven player. Well he has now done so, to get a proven coach. We'll miss that 2nd rounder. I was looking forward to getting a good DT or LB (after picking up Travis Henry in the first!)......but a scheme in which the players believe and will play hard, will make a much bigger difference to the 53 men on the roster, than the pick-up of any 2nd round talent IMO. Yes, it did sound like Lockett might try harder to come back. Especially if Saunders is hired, as it is Saunders that Vermeil largely credits with the wide-open offense.

Yosef,

DV certainly is sending a warning to the under-achievers, especially when he points out that only 9 members of the original roster were there when they won the SB. However, there is no way we get to release Chet and/or Williams this offseason due to the cap hits. Hopefully we can absorb those hits soon though if they don't wake up.

Warrior,

FWIW, I see us losing Shields to FA for salary cap reasons, due to the emergence of Willis as a capable guard. But we need Grunhard pretty badly IMO. This hiring might be a drastic enough change to lure Hasty back (again!), but that's no gimme. Lockett looks like he'll make an effort to come back now, which is great news. That Bennett comment is worrying me! Surely nobody could justify keeping him on the roster (other than purely for blocking duty at league minimum if we have no alternative but to put T-Rich at RB).

TEX
01-13-2001, 11:50 AM
Don't be fooled into thinking that players with good market value will come back and play for the Chiefs just because a "Super Bowl winning coach is here". It won't matter to Locket or Hastey - the free agent $$$ will, and that's how the league is set up now. However, Grunhard just might "buy" into that philosophy.

morphius
01-13-2001, 12:23 PM
Warrior - The best thing is that I don't think Vermeil will fall into the trance that Bennett is a legit RB threat and well use him as a backup to Richardson.

Morphius
Not really excited about that either...

Otter
01-13-2001, 12:44 PM
Cormac,

I couldn't agree with you more. Everyone, including myself, has bitched about the conservitive style of CP. Well he's stirring the pot now. Getting a super bowl proven coach doesn't come cheap or everybody would have one. The Chiefs organization was in dire need of an enama. Whether or not we win a super bowl under DV, can anybody honestly say that their not more hopefull than under the Gun (shudder)regiem. And as far as a young aggressive HC, I believe Vermeil will set us up with his predicessor before he leaves.

As far as Travis Henry, I'm taking up two seats on that bandwagon.

Otter
~seeing light at the end of the tunnel

KCWolfman
01-13-2001, 01:37 PM
Cormac - While some athletes are superior to others, basically all NFL players have the same chance to outdo one another, they merely need the intelligence and know how for application. Which is what a good coach supplies.

kcred
01-13-2001, 02:40 PM
While I hated to see our #2 go, it is already seeming more worthwhile. The enthusiasm generated at the press conference by everyone, including the reporters there, is something that has been missing for the past few years. Vermeil will bring a winning attitude, and will not stand for mediocrity. When he goes to CP and says you can keep this laggard if you want, but he stays inactive til he puts out the effort, he will get what he wants. So if we are stuck with a couple for cap reasons, they will not be in red and gold, even though they are drawing a huge paycheck.

Raiderhader
01-13-2001, 06:30 PM
A question for those of you that are upset about losing the 2nd rounder, what good would that pick have been under MaGoo and the Stooges?

Mark M
01-13-2001, 06:56 PM
raider--
While I see your point, I don't think Gun would have been back whether or not DV was hired. I would much rather have seen a college coach or NFL assistant hired and us keep our pick, rather than hiring someone because they were friends with Carl. And I think that is the point for those of us that are questioning the hiring. We could've had the best of both worlds--a new coaching staff and the picks we need to rebuild the team.

I am as happy as anyone to see Gun and the Stooges gone. But until I see another Lombardi Trohy with the Chiefs name on it, or players like Hasty, Grunny, Shields and Lockett come back for less $$, I won't be convinced. And to be honest, I don't know why ... just a gut reaction, I guess. Maybe I just hate St. Loser so much I wound up hating a coach who has proven his worth. Only time will tell.

As far as Bennett goes, I remember him being on heckuva fullback--good blocker, good at picking up the blitz and a decent runner when the play call is appropriate (i.e., not when they are on the goal line and the coach has stupidly announced to the world that he is our "short yardage" back just due to size).

MM
~~Still not happy ... yet.

DaWolf
01-13-2001, 07:31 PM
Mark,
I am of the belief that those people who have made up their mind to dislike Peterson will most likely dislike his pick for head coach. Right now I hear dismissal of Vermiel as either not a good coach, just getting the job because he is Carl's friend, as a ploy to sell more tickets, etc.

I think if he had hired a college coach or something, we'd be hearing the same things we did with Gun from others, IE he has to have a puppet, the guy hasn't proven anything, why does Carl want to wait 3 years before the coach catches up the the pro game, etc.

I don't see how we've lost out on the chance to "build this team" by losing a 2nd rounder. We have 2 No 3's and 2 No 4's. The cupbord is not empty. And there is always free agency. I didn't see the Saints not rebuilding because they didn't have a draft.

Peterson wants to win now. He didn't want to wait for a coach to learn the ropes while they stood around and found out if Mike Cloud or Frank Moreau are the real deal for the next 3 years. Dick Vermiel brings a solid foundation, he brings a new offense, he brings excellent assistants, he brings discipline, he brings togetherness, he brings credibility. These are all to me worth more than a 2nd round draft pick.

This is an article that I agree with:

DICK VERMEIL: KANSAS CITY SAVIOR?
Compensation Leaves Some Fans Burning, While Others Embrace Vermeil (http://www.nflscoop.com/cgi-bin/display.cgi?page=columnsbody.html&id=20010113174549731092000000&teamid=&linktype=)

Some people won't. We'll just have to wait and see...

NaptownChief
01-13-2001, 07:39 PM
Wolf,

I have liked the Vermeil selection all along...However, I have been one of the more vocal people about giving up a 2nd and a 3rd rounder...The following point will be mute if Vermeil ends up bring home a Lombardi but one point that I have heard very little about that bothers me most is that the chances of him coaching past that 3 year contract is probably 50/50 at best...If he doesn't bring us a trophy and retires again at the end of the 3 years then we are back to square one looking for a coach all over again minus to good draft picks...

DaWolf
01-14-2001, 12:15 AM
jl80,
I disagree with that notion. What Vermiel probably will do even if we don't win the Super Bowl is put the foundation there to be successful after he does leave. For example, the Rams when he went there had had a horrible decade, lost like 20 in a row to the 49ers, etc. He weeded out the bad players, totally reshaped the team and the way they do things, and surrounded himself with good people that he trusted. It resulted in a Super Bowl, but just as important, it set them up after he left in very good shape and with the foundation to continue to be successful for a time. So unless these next few years are utter disasters, I don't believe we'll be back to square 1 when he does leave...

Otter
01-14-2001, 12:52 AM
We wouldn't even be talking about the super bowl if DV wasn't brought in. Unless of course we were refering to raiders! The fact that we finally have a coach that has super bowl ability is alone worth the draft pick. Also, whens the last time KC got this much media? Thats a good thing in the NFL.

I hate arguing this point over but I still can't believe so many people are unhappy considering the alternatives.

We just went from a broken down Dodge Dart to a Hummer (the kind you drive) and everybodys pissed that we have to pay for the gas to run it.

Sorry for the bad analogy but its late and I'm running out of arguments.

Otter
~a happy camper



[Edited by Otter on 01-14-2001 at 01:26 AM]

BigOlChiefsfan
01-14-2001, 05:25 AM
I'm glad to see Vermeil here, glad to see the Stooges gone. I'd like to point out that any 'mad' I have about the draft picks isn't aimed at Carl or DV. It's aimed squarely at St. Louis and Tags. There may be more to DV's consulting contract than we know about, but the 'story' I heard makes me say the 2nd round pick is no kind of justice. No justice, no peace.
But I'll save my ranting about Tags and Jabba for later.

Strictly as a business move, I think it's a good one. As a 'personnel' move, it may be the best thing Carl's ever done in KC. This should bring in a time of 'good vibes' between the GM and HC, something we've never seen. I expect that things will get done sooner, done better out at ARROWHEAD. I want less bicker, more dicker. Carl's good at a few things, he's free now to do 'em, and spend less time watching his back (or translating Gun). Dick's good at a few other things...he's free and able to buckle down and do 'em. I think there's a lot of potential. I expect GOOD things.
But I'm still p.o.'ed at Tags and St. Louis. And I think about 'em being downstream every time I flush.

kcred
01-14-2001, 06:59 AM
The difference in last off season, and this off season, is clearly optimism. While I know, many Chiefs fans, were predicting good things for the team, last off season, I think they were being hopefully optimistic. I have been a Chiefs fan for over 35 years. In last years off season, I could see nothing to make me believe we would make the playoffs. Why? In a word coaching, I was not an advocate of Gunther from Day 1. I believed our near miss, of the playoffs in 99, was in spite of the coaching, not because of it. Given our daunting schedule, though it turned out much less than originally thought, I could see a 5 or 6 win season. However, this team, as it now stands, looks good enough to make the playoffs next year, we are not a Super Bowl team yet, but are not that far away. Once again, I believe it is the improvement in the coaching staff. With some of the cap problems, already documented, we may not be able to get the FA RB we need so desparately, but we have the draft, it is very deep, and even without a #2, there is quality in rounds 3 and 4. So for next year, making the playoffs will be a reward to me, with the SB, a year or even two away, but very attainable.

Chief Henry
01-14-2001, 09:25 AM
I too am pleased with the DV hiring. Like every one else I was very discouraged by the former coaching staff.

DV going to bring in new ***. coach's. These ***. coach's
will bring in new-fresh idea's. Hopefully DV and his coach's will get Carl P. to go out and get a STUD running back.

Chief Henry
01-14-2001, 09:28 AM
THE *** were to mean assistant coachs. I guess the 3 letter abbreviation for assistant won't work!!!!!!!

NaptownChief
01-14-2001, 10:14 AM
I disagree with the opinions that this is not a Super Bowl team...This is definitely not a great team but by default it was talented enough to make it to the Super Bowl...What I mean by that is there was not a great team in the league this year...Every single team has some serious weakness...We manhandled the Rams which many people believed was the best team, we outplayed the Titans on their home field only to lose the coin toss in overtime...We outplayed the Raiders in the first match up only to have SlyMo fumble it away fighting for an extra yard...The Raiders who look like they should win it all damn near lost to SF and SD not once but twice...And did lose twice to the Donks that we whipped twice...The talent was in place but we were very inconsistent because we had the worst coaching staff in the league...bare none...So yes we are talking SB with the change in staff, but I would be talking that with any staff in place other than the one we had. And before you say "see then it is worth it"...I will respond with; a lot of quality staffs could have been put together without draft picks.

Raiderhader
01-14-2001, 03:54 PM
Mark M, #11, two things, 1) please don't call me raider; I am a pretty hard guy to offend but, that will do it in a hurry. As you are a Chiefs fan yourself I am sure that you meant no offense. 2) I thought CP said it was DV or Gun. So if we didn't get Vermeil than we would still have Gun. I would not have minded going after a young college coach, but I am happy to have what we got. It is soooooo much better than what we had.

Mark M
01-14-2001, 04:51 PM
Wolf--
Very good points. And don't get me wrong ... I'm not angry about the choice, nor do I think it was an incredibly stupid move. I just think that the motivation for his hiring is questionable. There are plenty of coaches out there who are more than capable of getting the players to play at a higher level, who won't put up with the half-a$$ed work ethic of Chet (and others) and who are more than capable of learning how to be a great NFL head coach. And jl80 brings up a great point--what happens after 3 years? If we win a SB, great. I have no problem eating crow (I'm starting to get used to the taste!). I just see this as either a desperate move on Carl's part or a stop-gap measure. I hope I'm wrong.

raiderhader-- :D
I meant no offense. I will make sure not to do the same thing again! And I had not heard that it was DV or Gun only. If so, then I embrace DV. I just think that Gun was gone no matter what happened.

MM
~~Hopes he's eating crow one year and two weeks from now.

Mark M
01-14-2001, 05:01 PM
Okay. I've not been happy about DV's hiring and us losing our picks.

After reading the Scoop article (the link is on the "Two Views on Vermeil" thread) and looking at who we got in the 2nd round the last few years, I'm beginning to change my mind.

MM
~~Not so pig-headed that he can't change his mind when given the right reasons.