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View Full Version : Marty a QB Killer??


Deberg_1990
11-13-2006, 05:50 PM
I think we need to start seriously re-thinking that one.

Bernie Kozar, Dree Brees and now Phillip Rivers...

Im starting to think it was CP's love of aging veterans that held Marty back from ever letting a young QB develop here.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/peter_king/11/13/week10/7.html


3. I think -- no, I know -- the two most impressive people I watched Sunday were Philip Rivers, in a win, and Drew Brees, in a loss. I remember talking to Phil Simms before the '04 draft, when I'd come back from doing a story in Raleigh on the North Carolina State quarterback, Rivers, who was thought to be an early- to mid-field-round draft pick. Simms was a little down on Rivers because he didn't like his arm very much. I was high on Rivers because of a few things -- his presence, his ability as a true freshman to come in on opening day and command his team with confidence, his production at a mediocre Division I school for four years, and his optimistic love of the game. What a tremendous 24 minutes he played Sunday -- six straight touchdown drives between the middle of the second quarter and early in the fourth.

And Brees ... one play symbolizes what a great player he is, and what a terrific influence he's become on the 6-3 Saints. (Sorry to be always praising this guy to the max, but just watch him play. At $10 million a year, with a twin contract to Tom Brady, he's just as big a bargain.) With the Saints down 38-24 and fighting for their lives in the fourth quarter, on first-and-15 from their 31, in the shotgun, Brees surveyed the field against a heavy rush. Darting this way and that, he began to furiously motion to not-very-swift running back Aaron Stecker with his left hand. Go deep, go deep, go deep! You know, like he was on the sandlot in sixth grade after school. Just run! Make it up! And I'll throw it as far as I can! Brees cut it loose, high and far, and Stecker ran under it and caught it. Gain of 42. Less than two minutes later, the Saints scored to make it 38-31. Of all the quarterbacks I'd take right now for my team, Brees would be high on the list.

Brock
11-13-2006, 05:56 PM
He's fine as long as he has a GM to keep him in check.

I predict another one and out, however.

Deberg_1990
11-13-2006, 05:58 PM
I predict another one and out, however.

I predict the end of the world if its San Diego Vs. Indianapolis in the AFC Championship game.

Worlds biggest HC choker Vs Biggest QB choker.

Hammock Parties
11-13-2006, 06:00 PM
Rivers is one of the best young quarterbacks in this league. Marty has done a terrific job.

chagrin
11-13-2006, 06:01 PM
Rivers is one of the best young quarterbacks in this league. Marty has done a terrific job.

Dude, every one of your posts now resemble a quote from a warpaint article, lol! :p

Skip Towne
11-13-2006, 06:03 PM
He's fine as long as he has a GM to keep him in check.

I predict another one and out, however.
I think he's fine as long as the GM doesn't get in his way. That happened at both Cleveland and KC.

Brock
11-13-2006, 06:04 PM
Leaving Brees in a meaningless game at the end of a season was one of the dumbest coaching decisions I've ever seen.

OctoberFart
11-13-2006, 06:21 PM
Sad thing is that Donks have a good QB like RIvers that will start next year. Two good Q's 4x a year is going to suck.

htismaqe
11-13-2006, 06:45 PM
I think he's fine as long as the GM doesn't get in his way. That happened at both Cleveland and KC.

I don't agree with that at all.

Rivers is playing because AJ Smith wants him to. Marty wanted to keep Brees and Smith refused.

If anything, Carl Peterson gave Marty TOO MUCH say. Just like he did with Vermeil.

teedubya
11-13-2006, 06:52 PM
I do miss Marty. I thought he did a great job, except for 1998. We went to the playoffs practically every year with Marty.

Also, on a side note... if Marty were our head coach in 1999, We probably would have went to playoffs... and DT wouldnt have been in an SUV going to see the Rams in the playoffs.

kcxiv
11-13-2006, 08:42 PM
Least Marty Gives his team some hope for some post season. Its getting really old almost making it lol

milkman
11-13-2006, 09:47 PM
I've always thought the perception that Marty couldn't develop young QBs was wrong.

Marty didn't develop any young QBs in KC because there weren't any good young QBs drafted.

Carl should never have drafted Blackledge.
Damnit Carl. :cuss:

Deberg_1990
11-13-2006, 09:52 PM
Marty didn't develop any young QBs in KC because there weren't any good young QBs drafted.



Matt Blundin?? MIke Elkins?? Pat Barnes?? Steve Stentrum??


Those are some quality arms!!

OctoberFart
11-13-2006, 09:53 PM
To be fair Marty didn't hand pick Rivers. Testeverde just kind of fell to Cleveland, and Marty started a cold Elvis when Gannon was 2x the QB.

htismaqe
11-13-2006, 09:54 PM
I've always thought the perception that Marty couldn't develop young QBs was wrong.

Marty didn't develop any young QBs in KC because there weren't any good young QBs drafted.

Carl should never have drafted Blackledge.
Damnit Carl. :cuss:

I know for a fact that Pat Barnes was a Marty pick...

milkman
11-13-2006, 09:57 PM
I know for a fact that Pat Barnes was a Marty pick...

I have no doubt that Marty had a voice in each of the QB picks while he was here.

I just say Carl, because Carl is the GM.

Deberg_1990
11-13-2006, 10:02 PM
I have no doubt that Marty had a voice in each of the QB picks while he was here.

I just say Carl, because Carl is the GM.

Carl has always preferred aging, but solid veterans to make up for his draft mistakes.

To is credit, its why the franchise will never completely go into the tank while hes here but...........



It also never allows us to draft that solid core of a franchise QB, WR and RB's......it took him 15 years to finally hit on a franchise RB in the draft.

milkman
11-13-2006, 10:07 PM
Carl has always preferred aging, but solid veterans to make up for his draft mistakes.

To is credit, its why the franchise will never completely go into the tank while hes here but...........



It also never allows us to draft that solid core of a franchise QB, WR and RB's......it took him 15 years to finally hit on a franchise RB in the draft.

I've said this before, and still believe it to be true.

Carl has always given his caoch's voice too much weight in the draft, and not enough to Chuck Cook and the scouting department, IMO.

It took him 15 years to draft a franchise RB, and just by sheer coincidence, it also happens to be one of the rare times that he has drafted someone other that the coach's pick.

Deberg_1990
11-13-2006, 10:14 PM
I've said this before, and still believe it to be true.

Carl has always given his caoch's voice too much weight in the draft, and not enough to Chuck Cook and the scouting department, IMO.

It took him 15 years to draft a franchise RB, and just by sheer coincidence, it also happens to be one of the rare times that he has drafted someone other that the coach's pick.

Thats an interesting observation......so your saying that Carl wasnt responsible for Harvey Williams, Greg Hill and Trezelle Jenkins???

milkman
11-13-2006, 10:19 PM
Thats an interesting observation......so your saying that Carl wasnt responsible for Harvey Williams, Greg Hill and Trezelle Jenkins???

No, Carl is responsible, because he has the final say.

But, as an example of what I'm saying, wasn't there a story about Art Shell clamoring for Jenkins, which is why Carl pulled that trigger?

Deberg_1990
11-13-2006, 10:24 PM
But, as an example of what I'm saying, wasn't there a story about Art Shell clamoring for Jenkins, which is why Carl pulled that trigger?

Wow, if thats true, thats almost laughable.....hahahah

The same Art Shell who hired a bed and breakfast manager as his O-coordinator this year....LOL

Skip Towne
11-13-2006, 10:34 PM
I don't agree with that at all.

Rivers is playing because AJ Smith wants him to. Marty wanted to keep Brees and Smith refused.

If anything, Carl Peterson gave Marty TOO MUCH say. Just like he did with Vermeil.
We will have to agree to disagree then. All I had was the newspapers back then but the concensus was Marty either got control of personnel or he walked. He didn't so he walked. Are you aware of Carl and Marty's "meetings under the goalpost" before games? That was because they didn't talk any other time. I now understand that he and A.J. Smith do not talk. Marty is hard nosed and opinionated but I can't wait to see what happens when the front office quits messing with him. We might see it sooner rather than llater. One thing you have always overlooked is that Marty is a work in progress. He is still evolving. I've seen him take chances (like going for it on 4th down around mid-field) the last couple of years that I wouldn't have taken. He's always been good with LB's and bless him, he lleft Derrick Johnson on the board for us by taking Shawne Merriman. Who won that one? You and I both knew that when he took the Charger job that he would haunt us. And he has and will as long as he wants to do so. He is way up there in career wins by a head coach. If he should win a SB, he would easily be in the hall of fame. Sorry for the rant. I'm just tired of hearing people bash him. He wins everywhere he goes unlike most coaches. Let's just agree to disagree. Oh, one more thing, did you notice Marty's team roar back from an early deficit Sunday? Scores on 6 straight possessions. While he was doing that we were falling flat on our ass against a nobody. 10 points worth. Sometimes hard headed pays off.

Deberg_1990
11-13-2006, 10:53 PM
We will have to agree to disagree then. All I had was the newspapers back then but the concensus was Marty either got control of personnel or he walked. He didn't so he walked. Are you aware of Carl and Marty's "meetings under the goalpost" before games? That was because they didn't talk any other time. I now understand that he and A.J. Smith do not talk. Marty is hard nosed and opinionated but I can't wait to see what happens when the front office quits messing with him. We might see it sooner rather than llater. One thing you have always overlooked is that Marty is a work in progress. He is still evolving. I've seen him take chances (like going for it on 4th down around mid-field) the last couple of years that I wouldn't have taken. He's always been good with LB's and bless him, he lleft Derrick Johnson on the board for us by taking Shawne Merriman. Who won that one? You and I both knew that when he took the Charger job that he would haunt us. And he has and will as long as he wants to do so. He is way up there in career wins by a head coach. If he should win a SB, he would easily be in the hall of fame. Sorry for the rant. I'm just tired of hearing people bash him. He wins everywhere he goes unlike most coaches. Let's just agree to disagree. Oh, one more thing, did you notice Marty's team roar back from an early deficit Sunday? Scores on 6 straight possessions. While he was doing that we were falling flat on our ass against a nobody. 10 points worth. Sometimes hard headed pays off.

Well said.....I cant quite bring myself to bash Marty either. Dude turned around this sorry franchise and we havent quite been the same since he left.

He didnt win in Washington, but i have no doubt that he would have turned them around if Snyder didnt have such a hard on for Spurrier and given Marty more time.

milkman
11-13-2006, 10:58 PM
We will have to agree to disagree then. All I had was the newspapers back then but the concensus was Marty either got control of personnel or he walked. He didn't so he walked. Are you aware of Carl and Marty's "meetings under the goalpost" before games? That was because they didn't talk any other time. I now understand that he and A.J. Smith do not talk. Marty is hard nosed and opinionated but I can't wait to see what happens when the front office quits messing with him. We might see it sooner rather than llater. One thing you have always overlooked is that Marty is a work in progress. He is still evolving. I've seen him take chances (like going for it on 4th down around mid-field) the last couple of years that I wouldn't have taken. He's always been good with LB's and bless him, he lleft Derrick Johnson on the board for us by taking Shawne Merriman. Who won that one? You and I both knew that when he took the Charger job that he would haunt us. And he has and will as long as he wants to do so. He is way up there in career wins by a head coach. If he should win a SB, he would easily be in the hall of fame. Sorry for the rant. I'm just tired of hearing people bash him. He wins everywhere he goes unlike most coaches. Let's just agree to disagree. Oh, one more thing, did you notice Marty's team roar back from an early deficit Sunday? Scores on 6 straight possessions. While he was doing that we were falling flat on our ass against a nobody. 10 points worth. Sometimes hard headed pays off.

The Spanos' like AJ Smith, so if there is a continued power in SD, they would let Marty go before Smith.

Deberg_1990
11-13-2006, 11:03 PM
The Spanos' like AJ Smith, so if there is a continued power in SD, they would let Marty go before Smith.

Thats another good point. If Marty doesnt go deep in the playoffs this year, i could see San Diego showing him the door. Kind of like what happened to Dungy in Tampa. A successful coach who cant quite get his team over the hump.

Skip Towne
11-13-2006, 11:07 PM
The Spanos' like AJ Smith, so if there is a continued power in SD, they would let Marty go before Smith.
You're probably right. But if they are that stupid they will go right back in the tank just like every team has that Marty has left. Marty has quit every HC job he has had except Washington and it cost Snyder millions to fire him. Now look where Snyder is and where Marty is. Hahahaha. There is some justice in the world. I've got a whole lot more but my posts are too long. Before I go though, how about Antonio Gates. That dude didn't even play college football yet who was it that saw the potential and got him for a song? It damn sure wasn't our great scouting staff. Sorry, I'll take Marty over every coach we've had in the last 40 years including Stram.

Skip Towne
11-13-2006, 11:24 PM
Well said.....I cant quite bring myself to bash Marty either. Dude turned around this sorry franchise and we havent quite been the same since he left.

He didnt win in Washington, but i have no doubt that he would have turned them around if Snyder didnt have such a hard on for Spurrier and given Marty more time.
I think Marty ended up .500 in Washington in only his second or third year. He had never had a losing season until he did while taking over SD. Really, that is amazing in the competitive NFL. And you're right, I had suffered ineptitude for nearly 20 years when he showed up in KC. He had just refused to fire his brother in Cleveland and Modell said either you fire him or you are fired. Marty told him to get f*cked and we got him. I could hardly believe our luck. And we started winning immediately. And then he made the transition to the salary cap era which may have actually helped him battle the front offices. I really wouldn't want to be AJ Smith if push comes to shove in SD. Not if the franchise owners look at what has happened in the past. They'll find Smith a Sea World or something to manage like Hunt did with Steadman and Worlds of Fun.

Skip Towne
11-13-2006, 11:32 PM
I have a whole lot more but I really need to shut up and go to bed. But it really needs said that putting Jack Steadman on the Ring of Fame is the dumbest thing Lamar Hunt ever did. Steadman nearly destroyed this franchise. When I had season tickets, there were small panes buzzing Arrowhead pulling banners that said "Dump Shaaf and Steadman" at every game. He was the worst GM to ever grace an NFL team. I'm not sure AJ Smith is any smarter than Steadman. He would do well to shut the f*ck up and get out of Marty's way.

milkman
11-13-2006, 11:52 PM
I think Marty ended up .500 in Washington in only his second or third year. He had never had a losing season until he did while taking over SD. Really, that is amazing in the competitive NFL. And you're right, I had suffered ineptitude for nearly 20 years when he showed up in KC. He had just refused to fire his brother in Cleveland and Modell said either you fire him or you are fired. Marty told him to get f*cked and we got him. I could hardly believe our luck. And we started winning immediately. And then he made the transition to the salary cap era which may have actually helped him battle the front offices. I really wouldn't want to be AJ Smith if push comes to shove in SD. Not if the franchise owners look at what has happened in the past. They'll find Smith a Sea World or something to manage like Hunt did with Steadman and Worlds of Fun.

Marty only coached one season in Was, finishing 8-8.

XXXshogunXXX
11-14-2006, 01:37 AM
I think Marty ended up .500 in Washington in only his second or third year. He had never had a losing season until he did while taking over SD. Really, that is amazing in the competitive NFL. And you're right, I had suffered ineptitude for nearly 20 years when he showed up in KC. He had just refused to fire his brother in Cleveland and Modell said either you fire him or you are fired. Marty told him to get f*cked and we got him. I could hardly believe our luck. And we started winning immediately. And then he made the transition to the salary cap era which may have actually helped him battle the front offices. I really wouldn't want to be AJ Smith if push comes to shove in SD. Not if the franchise owners look at what has happened in the past. They'll find Smith a Sea World or something to manage like Hunt did with Steadman and Worlds of Fun.

good read...but if it was Marty or AJ....AJs staying, and I'm sure all charger fans feel the same way. AJ as a scout and a GM is invaluable to the team. Him getting Merriman, Rivers, Kaeding, and Oben for Manning alone puts him at the head of the franchise. I know it wasnt Marty pulling strings that draft Day. Speaking of which, I heard their fued started in the 2003 draft, when AJ wanted to take a chance at the #1 spot for Polamalu, but Marty (ive herad in interviews) said no one in that 15th spot was worth a pick so they traded down and got sammy davis and kiel... ehh, could be just forum rumor.

AJ was also instrumental in getting an unkown UDFA in Gates, but I guess Marty deserved credit for not cutting him. He was also key in trading down, passing on vick on getting Tomlinson. That move alone turned out franchise around. AJ also stuck with an unkown Rivers and let Brees go. He has a mean poker face.

DaWolf
11-14-2006, 02:39 AM
He had never had a losing season until he did while taking over SD.
Close. He was 7-9 his final year here...

MahiMike
11-14-2006, 06:57 AM
Good post. I totally agree. I also was amazed at watching Brees duck around the pressure, step up and throw bullets to his receivers. I didn't think he was that good until he got to NO.

I haven't been able to see much of SD but sounds like Rivers is the man in SD. I just wish he'd throw it to my TE more!

Brock
11-14-2006, 08:30 AM
We will have to agree to disagree then. All I had was the newspapers back then but the concensus was Marty either got control of personnel or he walked. He didn't so he walked.

Dude, you're wrong. The thugs and malcontents the Chiefs had in the late 90s were a direct result of Marty being able to pick the players he wanted in free agency in 97 and 98. Marty walked away because he had built a mess that he didn't want to clean up, among other reasons.

htismaqe
11-14-2006, 08:39 AM
good read...but if it was Marty or AJ....AJs staying, and I'm sure all charger fans feel the same way. AJ as a scout and a GM is invaluable to the team. Him getting Merriman, Rivers, Kaeding, and Oben for Manning alone puts him at the head of the franchise. I know it wasnt Marty pulling strings that draft Day. Speaking of which, I heard their fued started in the 2003 draft, when AJ wanted to take a chance at the #1 spot for Polamalu, but Marty (ive herad in interviews) said no one in that 15th spot was worth a pick so they traded down and got sammy davis and kiel... ehh, could be just forum rumor.

AJ was also instrumental in getting an unkown UDFA in Gates, but I guess Marty deserved credit for not cutting him. He was also key in trading down, passing on vick on getting Tomlinson. That move alone turned out franchise around. AJ also stuck with an unkown Rivers and let Brees go. He has a mean poker face.

See, this is why I dislike Carl Peterson.

Why don't we have a personnel departments that is autonomous of the head coach?

Chiefnj
11-14-2006, 08:51 AM
Why don't we have a personnel departments that is autonomous of the head coach?

Because sometimes you have an ugly situation where the coach doesn't want to play the guy he didn't want. You could have a running back tear off a 40 yard run on his first carry in the first quarter and then not get a touch until the 4th quarter.