Up to 150 Iraqi Government Workers Kidnapped

[Amnorix]

For all the moaning from the right about the timing of certain events, they're lucky this one didn't happen 2 days before the election, though I'm not sure how mcuh worse the election could have gone for them really.

Regrettably, the situation really does not seem to be improving if stuff like this can be happening. :shake:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/14/iraq.main/index.html

[StcChief]

This will be a regular event once Dems decide to
Cut and Run.

[jiveturkey]

It's been roses and free beer since the invasion. Now that the dems are in power it's going to get ugly.

[memyselfI]

All Universities have been closed and classes suspended until further notice...

That will sure win the HAMs of the young people we need to step up and help defend their country.

What a fuggin mess. :banghead:

[memyselfI]

This will be a regular event once Dems decide to
Cut and Run.

The difference being it won't be happening right UNDER OUR NOSES.

[jspchief]

The difference being it won't be happening right UNDER OUR NOSES.So it's ok that it happens, as long as we don't look silly in the process?

[memyselfI]

So it's ok that it happens, as long as we don't look silly in the process?

Of course not. But if our objective to being there (at least the 1356th different stated one) is to provide security and help train security forces and this happens with us there then what is the fuggin point?

[jspchief]

Of course not. But if our objective to being there (at least the 1356th different stated one) is to provide security and help train security forces and this happens with us there then what is the fuggin point?I guess I just have a different criteria for throwing our hands in the air and walking away from the forest fire we started. Apparently some people expected Iraq to magically become Paradise in a matter of a few years. I'm more of the opinion that it's going to be a long gritty process.

Rebuilding a nation that was a clusterf*ck doesn't happen overnight. Leaving now is more criminal than going there in the first place.

[memyselfI]

I guess I just have a different criteria for throwing our hands in the air and walking away from the forest fire we started. Apparently some people expected Iraq to magically become Paradise in a matter of a few years. I'm more of the opinion that it's going to be a long gritty process.

Rebuilding a nation that was a clusterf*ck doesn't happen overnight. Leaving now is more criminal than going there in the first place.

Leaving now is not more criminal than going in the first place. These people have hated each other for CENTURIES. To pretend they are going to stop because we invaded and called it democracy is what is criminal. Continuing to get our people killed because of aged old conflicts that have nothing to do with us/the US is criminal. Pretending that staying in the status quo is the only viable option is criminal...

[Chiefnj]

Apparently some people expected Iraq to magically become Paradise in a matter of a few years.

Too bad the people that decided to conduct the invasion were of that opinion.

[jspchief]

Leaving now is not more criminal than going in the first place. These people have hated each other for CENTURIES. To pretend they are going to stop because we invaded and called it democracy is what is criminal. Continuing to get our people killed because of aged old conflicts that have nothing to do with us/the US is criminal. Pretending that staying in the status quo is the only viable option is criminal...I couldn't disagree more. You can't just go into a country and crush the infrastucture, then bail out when you recognize the cleanup process is going get your hands dirty.

We have a resposibility to finish what we started.

I'm tired of hearing all this status quo bullshit as if we aren't adjusting strategy in the face of the difficulties we confront. You guys sit here and demand concrete plans in one breath, then piss and moan about lack of flexibility in the next. You want a bluebrint like we're building a shed in the back yard, yet make no considerations for the extenuating circumstances.

The truth is you'll only be happy if we bail and leave those people to the hornets nest that we kicked. And I can't help but feel that it has more to do with enabling you to point fingers at this administration than anything to do with the actual situation.

[jspchief]

Too bad the people that decided to conduct the invasion were of that opinion.Yea it is too bad. If that's what they really believed, they were wrong.

That doesn't change that we should finish what we started.

[stevieray]

I couldn't disagree more. You can't just go into a country and crush the infrastucture, then bail out when you recognize the cleanup process is going get your hands dirty.

We have a resposibility to finish what we started.

I'm tired of hearing all this status quo bullshit as if we aren't adjusting strategy in the face of the difficulties we confront. You guys sit here and demand concrete plans in one breath, then piss and moan about lack of flexibility in the next. You want a bluebrint like we're building a shed in the back yard, yet make no considerations for the extenuating circumstances.

The truth is you'll only be happy if we bail and leave those people to the hornets nest that we kicked. And I can't help but feel that it has more to do with enabling you to point fingers at this administration than anything to do with the actual situation.

:clap:

[StcChief]

Dumocrats really 'want to cut and run',
they just aren't really saying it now they have control of house/senate.

Much easy to run the Vietnam parallel later.

[Bowser]

This will be a regular event once Dems decide to
Cut and Run.

Christ, it's a regular event now, and I haven't noticed us cutting and running anywhere.

[Bowser]

Dumocrats really 'want to cut and run',
they just aren't really saying it now they have control of house/senate.

Much easy to run the Vietnam parallel later.

Hey man, I'm sorry the beloved Repubs and the beloved George W. crapped their respective shorts the last few years. Maybe if your party of choice didn't have delusions of grandeur on what they could make of the Middle East, the Repubs wouldn't have lost control of the country and we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. Blame the incompetent a-holes you rooted for, for a change.

[Radar Chief]

Christ, it's a regular event now, and I haven't noticed us cutting and running anywhere.

Everything I’ve read so far indicates this is a pretty unprecedented occurrence. What’cha read’n that say’s this happens all the time? :shrug:

[Bowser]

Everything I’ve read so far indicates this is a pretty unprecedented occurrence. What’cha read’n that say’s this happens all the time? :shrug:

Kidnappings have happened for as long as we've been trying to help them set up their government. As far as I know, there hasn't been 150 taken at one time before this. Usually, they've just been blown to bits rather than kidnapped.

[StcChief]

Everything I’ve read so far indicates this is a pretty unprecedented occurrence. What’cha read’n that say’s this happens all the time? :shrug:

He's referring to my comment....about 'cut and run' Dumocrats.

This stuff will become a regular event if Iraq army/police don't start stepping up as we step down.

[noa]

Everything I’ve read so far indicates this is a pretty unprecedented occurrence. What’cha read’n that say’s this happens all the time? :shrug:


This is a large scale occurence, but if you go to http://www.brookings.edu/iraqindex and click on the .PDF file, you will see that 30-40 Iraqis are kidnapped per day nationwide.

[Bowser]

He's referring to my comment....about 'cut and run' Dumocrats.

This stuff will become a regular event if Iraq army/police don't start stepping up as we step down.

Now THAT I agree with. The Iraqi's seem to be in no hurry whatsoever to get this thing moving.

[Chief Faithful]

This will be a regular event once Dems decide to
Cut and Run.

Democrats don't call it cut and run they call it a 'phased redeployment'.

[noa]

Democrats don't call it cut and run they call it a 'phased redeployment'.


Bush is still Commander in Chief. Troops can't be redeployed with his okay. The Republicans still control the Department of Defense. The only thing the Dems can do is pressure the White House, pass resolutions, and cut funding, but I don't think they are stupid enough to cut funding from our troops. That's political suicide.

[Chief Faithful]

Bush is still Commander in Chief. Troops can't be redeployed with his okay. The Republicans still control the Department of Defense. The only thing the Dems can do is pressure the White House, pass resolutions, and cut funding, but I don't think they are stupid enough to cut funding from our troops. That's political suicide.

I don't disagree, but listen to the Dem leadership they invented the phrase.Phased Redeployment (http://washingtontimes.com/national/20061113-121618-4205r.htm)

[Adept Havelock]

Phased Redeployment works for me. We've given them a country. As long as we continue to provide them with abundant funding, training, equipment, and intel, if they lose it it's on them IMO. :shrug:

[Amnorix]

I couldn't disagree more. You can't just go into a country and crush the infrastucture, then bail out when you recognize the cleanup process is going get your hands dirty.

We have a resposibility to finish what we started.

I'm tired of hearing all this status quo bullshit as if we aren't adjusting strategy in the face of the difficulties we confront. You guys sit here and demand concrete plans in one breath, then piss and moan about lack of flexibility in the next. You want a bluebrint like we're building a shed in the back yard, yet make no considerations for the extenuating circumstances.

The truth is you'll only be happy if we bail and leave those people to the hornets nest that we kicked. And I can't help but feel that it has more to do with enabling you to point fingers at this administration than anything to do with the actual situation.

How about the simple fact that Iraq is not a "country" except to the extent that some lines on a map were drawn about 80 years ago, and it's been held together by either colonialist powers or dictators ever since.

For a "country" to exist peacefully under anything close to a democracy, it needs to be held together by common roots -- religion, culture, language, society, etc. If you have tremendous ethnic, religious or other infighting that overwhelms the desire to stay together, then the country will flly apart.

Iraq does not have the necessary compoentns to stay together as a single, united country except under a dictatorship.