View Full Version : Get Ready For Martzyball!
01-16-2001, 11:24 AM
Throw it on nearly every down, in order to try to bury your opponent early (since you have a weak defense). Minimum requirements: MVP at HB and QB. Tight Ends need not apply!
It was the '99 Rams under DV who brought out the attitude that a circus offense could out-shoot any opponent no matter how bad your defense is. Martz had THAT scheme blow up in his face this year. BIG TIME. DV will bring a lot of horses on O and invest minimally in his defense, which is what Greg R is used to, playing behind a lead. This will be all the more acute if Al Saunders does come in here. He has already said he would implement a Martzyball offense if hired. So I am not laying all this at the feet of Greg Robinson.
Look for a wild, inconsistent season.
Likes predictable, boring Martyball
01-16-2001, 03:49 PM
Gee, is it somethng I said?
I must be a pariah on this BB.
01-16-2001, 05:04 PM
I think that DV and Al Saunders are way too smart to remove TG from the game plan.
01-16-2001, 08:09 PM
Naw, KCJohnny, you're welcome here.
I agree with you. If what you say does come to fruition, I will be furious!
I like hard nosed D and a dominant running game with a competent passing game mixed in.
Like the Cowboys superbowl squads.
I hate the Cowboys like no other, but I liked the style they ran on Offense and Defense.
01-16-2001, 08:35 PM
You know you are always welcome. I am disappointed to find our roles reversed. Now I am the rose colored glasses optimist and you are the one preaching negativism. I love the thought of a high powered offense. I am not ecstatic with the Robinson selection but I did at least read what he had to say. He wants lots of man coverage if we have the players to handle it, and he loves the blitzing game with aggressiviness for turnovers. If you look at his stats over the years he has produced the turnovers and sacks. So his team did not gell this season with 4 rookies, Carter out of the lineup etc. Well newsflash neither did our defense, and Denvers was still ranked 7th against the run despite the terrible games against Dillon and the second game against the Chiefs.
I am still jazzed about all the changes and look forward to more. I cannot believe the negativity about Ganz Jr. The guy only has the greatest special teams coordinator who ever coached as a father. You do not suppose he might call on dad for occasional consultation to get better.
Oh well sorry you are so bummed, it sure seems strange.
01-16-2001, 09:08 PM
KCJohnny - Of course your welcome here. The one thing we will have to see is if the OC can do something that we have not seen much in years, make game time adjustments to take advantage of what a team is giving us.
It has been obvious that the Chiefs gameplans before the games have stayed throughout the games, even when they were failing. Only when we were behind would we switch, but it was more of a panic where we would throw on every down no matter how close the game was.
I'm still cautious about the changes, but changes were needed.
01-17-2001, 02:27 AM
I don't know whats gonna happen with defense, but I doubt Vermeil is going to stray too far from Kansas City tradition. I'm sure that was a determing factor in hiring Robinson. Vermeil is a smart man, like him or not. He knows that KC fans love a tough attack defense.
As far at "tight ends need not apply." I think, and I may be wrong, that your implying Gonzo will not be a big part of the 2001 offense?!?!
Thats not going to happen. Tony G. has revolutionized the tight end position. NFL teams, especially AFC West teams are trying to compensate for not drafting him. A good example is Dudley in Oakland.
He is the closest thing KC has to super star. Not to utilize his enormous talent and presence in KC would be public relations suicide.
I said it before and I'll say it again: Dick Vermeil is a wiley old coach. Don't under estimate him. KC is in for a big change that may take some getting used to. But we finally have a chance to be a step ahead of the NFL evolutionary process instead of always being a step behind like we were in the '90s with San Fran.
Keep the faith. For the first time in a long time there is good reason.
[Edited by Otter on 01-17-2001 at 06:54 PM]
01-17-2001, 04:25 AM
What ever you may think about "Martzyball" it was successful because of Marshall Faulk.
Vermeil may not have been my first choice, but he and his OC will be smart enough to realize that a true "Martzyball" offense can't utilzed in KC, because of the turf and the weather. I actually believe that KC's version of "Martzyball" will more closely resemble that Dallas offense that Cannibal likes so much.
01-17-2001, 04:59 AM
KCJ - I know you were not an advocate of keeping Gunther, and obviously you may not be enamored with hiring DV, but, I don't think we can prejudge him, or his decisions at this time. I am not saying you are wrong, however, I believe when he first came back to coaching, he was light years behind the game, and it took a while to get his team the way he wanted, and adjust to the new NFL. He changed his "Eagle" approach to a "Ram" approach and won the SB. Now lets hope he adds a new "Chief" approach and takes us to the promised land. One playoff victory in 01, and then a serious run in 02, would make me one happy camper.
01-17-2001, 08:08 AM
Thanks for all the replies.
There are a couple of things going on here with me.
1. Grieving over the Gun-led Chiefs. I had sky-high hopes
and it was very tough for me to see the Chiefs stumble so badly after a great start against the toughest part of our schedule.
2. Accepting a total transplant. This is kind of like getting a new stepfather. Our people aren't good enough so we import a whole new staff. After all those promotions from within, it hurts to be rejected. Kind of like I felt at first after bringing in Montana and Allen. If we just dressed up the AFC PB team in Chiefs uniforms and won a SB, it wouldn't be the same for me.
3. A TOTAL change of philosophy. This goes back to the Stram years for some of us. Brutal defense, tough running and razor-precision passing were KC traditions. That is what made Marty so special; he tapped into the same great traditions that gave KC its only Lombardi Trophy. This new Martzyball/play-not-to-lose-on-defense seems so foreign to me. I HATE copying other teams. For crying out loud, the teams in the SB copied Marty!
All that said, I am totally willing to go in a new direction if it works.
As for Tony G, I know he'll be utilized in a Martzyball offense. But it will take some football savvy to transfer the focus from RB (Faulk) to the TE. Hopefully we get someone smart enough to build on our strengths.
01-17-2001, 08:26 AM
KCJ - I would like to see the coaches go back to using Gonzo in more of a traditional TE, and not as much as a WR. I think it puts a bigger strain on D's because you don't know if he is going to stay in and block or slip out and go in route, and they have to spy him either way.
The new DC is at least an attacking DC and not a sit back on your heels kind of guy, which is what we all want. I know the weak zones last year had to be killing you as much as it did us. Plus the Rams and Denver were both into getting turnovers, something else we consider a tradition. I also truly believe that Kurt was the reason that Donnie Edwards is not going to the probowl, once we went with the wweak zone the LB's were no longer able to play an attacking role, but were forced to stand back and play the pass and stay in their zone, not rely on instincts.
Plus the signing of Vermeil might be big enough to get us some Monday Night games next year, something that if Gun would have stayed would not have happened.
It is a very scary change, but the most we can do is hope something comes out of it.
01-17-2001, 02:16 PM
I sincerely appreciate your heartfelt comments.
I was beginning to think I was the only one who felt this way.
01-19-2001, 11:59 AM
With the hiring of Charlie Joiner as WRS coach, is there any doubt in anyone's mind that the Chiefs will be banking on a Martzyball offense and a mediocre defense next year?
How many SB's did Air Coryell win (Joiner's old team)?
Greg Robinson: donx ranked #31 in pass defense
Peter Guinta: Rams surrendered 450 points
These guys are here to be the 'answer' for a defense that gave up a franchise record 25 TD passes last year.
Can't understand why everybody doesn't see what a transparent sham this whole thing is. Oh well, I hope KC averages 30+ ppg, because they're going to NEED it.
01-19-2001, 12:23 PM
Martzball was played in '00. We're getting Vermeilball. And I believe there is a difference.
If there was one thing I liked about the '99 Rams, it was the fact that the potent offense had no effect on the hunger in the defense. The Rams' defense was nearly as potent as its offense, just not as sexy. There's a reason [specialization aside] that OCs and DCs are different people. Just because the O is working its a$$ off, doesn't mean the D can't working its a$$ off as well.
And before people start protesting that the Rams '99 D was sheltered by early leads, show where they showed chinks in their armor, aside from the last drive of the Lions game when McLeon punked out to Frerotte. They were on the feild more than the O, much more than the Chiefs' D was that year, and they forced 3rd and longs and then didn't give up 3rd down conversions. Then when game WERE tight, like the playoffs, or the regular season meeting at the Titans, they hunkered down and STILL held opposing Os down.
I'm not gonna worry until I see defensive stalwarts leaving the team without being replaced.
01-19-2001, 12:32 PM
John, "Martzyball" is a stupid and inaccurate phrase. Mike Martz did NOT invent this offense, he only implemented it. The offense was invented by Don Coryell in the 70's, and it has been passed down to Joe Gibbs, Ernie Zampese, Al Saunders, Ron & Norv Turner and Mike Martz. If memory serves correct, this offense won Super Bowls with Dallas(3), Washington, and the Rams, making it second only to the "West Coast" offense invented by Paul Brown and perfected by Bill Walsh. All versions of this offense include 1,000 yard rushers, tough defense and prolific wide receivers. The Chiefs have all the ingredients in place (save for the 1,000 shifty running back) to make a successful run in 2001. The Cowboys defense was tough, and the Rams in '99 was ranked in the top 5 in the league! And one more thing: please explain to me how Martz system blew up "big time". The Rams went 10-6 with their MVP QB and RB missing games, and made the playoff, yet "Maul Ball" managed only a 7-9 record, and 16-16 overall. I think "Maul Ball" sucked, and I'm happy to see a Super Bowl offense roll into KC!
01-19-2001, 12:35 PM
Dane - I don't know if you are referring to me or KC, but I just called it Martzyball in keeping with the thread and to differentiate between what people 'think' we're getting and what we are getting.
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