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View Full Version : Tom Brady/Peyton Manning: Is there really any question?


Hootie
11-16-2006, 09:41 AM
who the better QB is?

It's easily Manning.

The funny thing about Brady is...no matter how bad he plays, it's never his fault. It's always management, or the coach, or the defense, or ANYTHING other than Brady. He's quickly becoming Favre #2 to the media.

Brady can throw 4 picks but amazingly enough none of them are his fault. he gets a free pass no matter what.

Mannings team will lose in the playoffs because of his kicker missing a field goal and it's all his fault, no matter what.

The pats lose and they blame it on a blown replay (where a TE ran down champ friggin' bailey...)

and why did Champ have the ball?! A brady pick.

Why did the Pats win three super bowls? Brady played a part, sure...but the tuck rule? That was absolute bullshit.

The 45 yard field goal in the snow in - degree weather...sure, that had nothing to do with it!

The pats three super bowls have more to do with bellichek and vinatieri then it does with Brady.

Until two or three years ago, no one thought of brady as more than a game manager. I have news for you, he still is.

If Brady was a Colt, the Colts wouldn't even be a playoff team. If Brady went anywhere other than New England, he wouldn't have ever been a starting QB.

It's like the whole Eddie Kennison/Marvin Harrison thing...

Eddie was drafted one slot higher than Harrison years ago...if they swapped, I guarantee Eddie would've formed the same bond Harrison has with Manning and we'd be talking about how great Kennison is and how he's hall of fame bound.

It's amazing what a scheme can do for you.

Anyways, no matter how amazingly annoying Bill Simmons is now, especially after that whole column before the Pats/Colts game where he let his homerism get in the way of good journalism and common sense, it's quite simple to see who the best QB is.

Just watch, for the rest of the season, if the Pats melt down...no matter how bad Brady plays...it won't be his fault. It's hilarious.

Then, if Manning and the Colts don't win the super bowl, we'll here about how Manning chokes and how he's not a winner...even if he's 20-25 with 3 TD's and no picks.

DaWolf
11-16-2006, 09:43 AM
Montana or Marino?

JimNasium
11-16-2006, 09:45 AM
Montana or Marino?
You gotta count the rings. I don't care what kind of stats Jesus puts up, until he shows that he can win big games I'll put him in second place in this contest. Also, FTR, someone who was calling for Huard over Green has zero credibility in this debate.

##########Edit###########

I was referring to the thread starter on the credibility issue.

Fish
11-16-2006, 09:46 AM
I thought I was doing decent at the beginning of the season to draft Brady and Trent Green as QBs for my FF team.....

Green goes down 1st game.... Brady has been Probable all season, and lost his favorite receivers...

boogblaster
11-16-2006, 09:46 AM
Last 4 years its been Manning then Green...

StcChief
11-16-2006, 09:46 AM
Whiney b1tch Manning seems to have a nack for looking like it's NEVER his fault, as he runs out of bounds.
take a hit pussy.

Sully
11-16-2006, 09:46 AM
Manning can't beat Florida.

Hootie
11-16-2006, 09:48 AM
Whiney b1tch Manning seems to have a nack for looking like it's NEVER his fault, as he runs out of bounds.
take a hit pussy.
what?

This is retarded.

Hootie
11-16-2006, 09:49 AM
Last 4 years its been Manning then Green...
No. Not even close.

Green is good, great even...

But he's a top 5 QB in the NFL, not the #2. I don't care what the stats say.

It goes...

Manning
HUGE, HUGE GAP
about 5 guys

morphius
11-16-2006, 10:04 AM
what?

This is retarded.
Many in KC have issues with QB's who point fingers at other players when they have bad games, like Grbac's can't throw and catch the ball comment. Manning has tossed his OL and his kickers under the bus and points at his WR's all the time when he is upset. We have all seen it.

I also don't see Kennison getting as open as Harrison does either. While I love the way Kennison has been playing, he doesn't have to fight through the double teams that Harrison has had to either.

the Talking Can
11-16-2006, 10:05 AM
"If Brady was a Colt, the Colts wouldn't even be a playoff team. If Brady went anywhere other than New England, he wouldn't have ever been a starting QB."




is it too late to abort you?

Brock
11-16-2006, 10:09 AM
Manning is clearly more physically gifted. But you'd have to be a complete moron not to notice that Brady plays much, much, much better in big games, aka playoff games and super bowls.

Hootie
11-16-2006, 10:15 AM
Manning is clearly more physically gifted. But you'd have to be a complete moron not to notice that Brady plays much, much, much better in big games, aka playoff games and super bowls.
Is that so?

His first playoffs, the year they won super bowl numero uno...he threw as many INT's as TD's (1)...he was merely a game manager.

2002, no playoffs, he sucked...

2003 he had an awesome super bowl, we all know that...but he didn't play too well against Tennessee or Indianapolis for that matter...completing less than 60% of his passes in both games.

2004 ok, spectacular...

2005 we all saw how great he was against Denver.

I mean, he's a good playoff QB. Great? I'm not so sure.

Manning has had amazing playoff games, and poor playoff games. So has Brady.

The only difference is, Brady can play bad and his team can win...Manning can't.

Brock
11-16-2006, 11:09 AM
Manning has had amazing playoff games, and poor playoff games. So has Brady.

The only difference is, Brady can play bad and his team can win...Manning can't.


I don't really understand why that is, but you're probably right. OTOH, Manning has been surrounded by weapons from day one. Brady won Super bowls without that kind of help. And a lot of what Brady does isn't going to show up in the stats. He could play like ass for 3 and a half quarters, then suddenly drive the team down the field for a winning FG. I'm not saying Manning can't do it, I'm just saying Brady has done it.

StcChief
11-16-2006, 11:14 AM
what?

This is retarded.
Lose the man crush on Peyton Manning.

Yes he's good, but is he good when it counts

He hasn't risen above adversity... don't blame coach, other players (Kicker, your line, refs, penalties, no one open)

Get it done or go out a big game loser.

MichaelH
11-16-2006, 11:14 AM
Last 4 years its been Manning then Green...

to smart people yes. To ESPN and co., it reads Manning, Vick, Hassleback, the other Manning, Brees, McNair, Brady, and Trent Green. But only if Jaws has the mic.

Rausch
11-16-2006, 11:17 AM
Manning has never won a championchip. Ever. At any level.

Manning never takes responsibility for his own horrible play. "We had protection issues."

Really? Throw it away then genius and not to the other team.

That, and he's never failed to choke in the playoffs...

cadmonkey
11-16-2006, 11:35 AM
Manning has had superstar wide recievers the whole time he has been in Indy. That makes his a great QB. Green and Brady have had no body wide recievers and have suceeded. A QB leads his team to victories and championships.

If you want to define a QB by how many yards he passes for or how many touchdowns he throws for then Manning is the best QB to ever play the game.

Manning is the greatest regular season championship QB. Brady has won three rings and that is what QB's are really measured on.

Look at Joe Namath. He did DICK his entire career, except win one Super Bowl. Everybody always puts him in their list of Top QB's. He doesn't rank in the top ten of any QB catagory. He is awful but for one game.

As a QB, Manning is the best in the game right now. As a team leader he can't hold Brady's jock.

Sure-Oz
11-16-2006, 11:50 AM
I take the SB Trophies over Manning and his lack there of any day.. Brady is an excellent QB, while Manning is better phyiscally and puts up better stats. I'd love to see what Brady could do with Harrison and Wayne. Brady has the edge...

Hootie
11-16-2006, 12:15 PM
man, you guys are so wrong it isn't even funny.

How many WR's are drafted in the first round every year?

You're telling me Peyton Manning has nothing to do with the success of Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Brandon Stokely...

Look what happened to Edge after leaving Indy.

Like I said, and this is why I bought up the Kennison comparison, had Eddie gone to Indianapolis, he would've been MARVIN HARRISON. Marvin never would've been the receiver we know had him and Eddie swapped draft spots.

This is my opinion, is it right? Not necessarily, but it's what I believe.

And Manning never won anything on any level? Ok?

Brady was benched in college for a guy that can't even make a practice squad now.

Hootie
11-16-2006, 12:17 PM
I'd love to see how Wayne and Harrison would do with Brady as their QB, too.

I'd be willing to bet they wouldn't do NEARLY as well as they're doing now.

Sure-Oz
11-16-2006, 12:20 PM
man, you guys are so wrong it isn't even funny.

How many WR's are drafted in the first round every year?

You're telling me Peyton Manning has nothing to do with the success of Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Brandon Stokely...

Look what happened to Edge after leaving Indy.

Like I said, and this is why I bought up the Kennison comparison, had Eddie gone to Indianapolis, he would've been MARVIN HARRISON. Marvin never would've been the receiver we know had him and Eddie swapped draft spots.

This is my opinion, is it right? Not necessarily, but it's what I believe.

And Manning never won anything on any level? Ok?

Brady was benched in college for a guy that can't even make a practice squad now.
I think that college guy will take what Brady has now....obviously it changed him and yeah id still take a guy like Brady, he don't throw his players under the bus. You'd be an idiot to take a regular season wonder who chokes in playoff games and actually gets knocked around and loses it over a guy who has been there and proven it since his first season as a starter?! Those WR's are talented, you saying Holt and Bruce were lighting it up cause of Warner?? It helps when you have weapons around you and Brady has had AVG WR's in his core, if anything he has done alot for them.

Hootie
11-16-2006, 12:24 PM
chokes in playoff games?

Boy, I sure wish he choked against us in 2003.

Hootie
11-16-2006, 12:25 PM
by the way sure oz...learn how to use a comma, or something.

Sure-Oz
11-16-2006, 12:28 PM
chokes in playoff games?

Boy, I sure wish he choked against us in 2003.
Wow, and we had ZERO defense he had YEARS to throw that game, Tom Brady has won SB's Manning hasn't, until Manning proves he can win cause this game is about WINNING not stats. I want to see how well your new golden boy PAY-ton does when he is forced to loss his weapons almost every year offensively cause the owner won't pony up. THe pats consistently lose free agents and re-patch the O and D with 2nd tier guys and they still win and go far. I don't see how you can argue with the winning and the trophies? Manning is a better gifted player by far but he hasn't won yet....he could be another dan marino as far as im concerned if they don't win one.

Sure-Oz
11-16-2006, 12:28 PM
by the way sure oz...learn how to use a comma, or something.
Personal insults cause I disagree with you?? Nice touch...

Hootie
11-16-2006, 12:31 PM
put Manning on the Patriots, and he has 5 super bowl rings.

Brock
11-16-2006, 01:03 PM
put Manning on the Patriots, and he has 5 super bowl rings.

Maybe, maybe not. Put him on the Colts with virtually unlimited talent around him and he has zero.

BucEyedPea
11-16-2006, 01:48 PM
The only difference is, Brady can play bad and his team can win...Manning can't.
I dunno about that, when Brady stinks it up, which is rare, his team pays.

Clearly the Int to Champ Bailey in the Denver po game '05, and the past 2 games this season he's been off. The season after the Pats first SB the team lost but Brady actually had a very good year statistically. But Brady has an excellent playoff record compared to Manning...no comparison.

I think one could say Manning is a different QB and a more exciting QB.
The recent loss to Indy, I feel shows that the Pat's OC game planning was not based on Brady's style of winning: shorter passes that drive the team down the field as opposed to the type of passing game he had to play to compete with Manning. He's not a Manning. That was just a dumb game plan especially when Indy was getting killed with the running game.

Let's face it if Manning didn't have the receivers he has he'd be no where as good either. On the other hand, Brady has never played with star receivers.

vailpass
11-16-2006, 01:51 PM
Last 4 years its been Manning then Green...

DOH! ROFL
:homer:

Undertaker #59
11-16-2006, 03:57 PM
:shake:

From Cold Hard Football Facts: http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=1107&Category=11

There’s no doubt Manning has been a prolific passer – one of the very best in the history of the game. Manning is currently second in NFL history with a 94.3 passer rating. Only Steve Young is higher, at 96.8.

Tom Brady, meanwhile, is faring pretty well for a guy who doesn’t quite have the same reputation as a “big numbers” guy. In fact, Brady stands at No. 7 in the entire history of the NFL, with an 88.8 passer rating – 5.5 passer rating points behind Manning.

Here are the top seven passers (by passer rating) in NFL history (the Pro Football Hall of Fame updates the list each week):
Steve Young, 96.8
Peyton Manning, 94.3
Kurt Warner, 93.5
Joe Montana, 92.3
Marc Bulger, 91.1
Daunte Culpepper, 90.8
Tom Brady, 88.8
A couple things you’ll notice about the Top 7: Two were brilliant passers who happened to play in the same Bill Walsh-created West Coast system in San Francisco. Four of the guys played the bulk of their careers indoors, where we just found it’s much easier to pass the ball.

Then there’s Brady.

Brady elevates his game in the postseason
Brady is a two-time Super Bowl MVP who has given us some of the most amazing playoff performances in history.

He has played in three Super Bowls – and had a passer rating over 100 in all three games – while joining the list of all-time Super Bowl legends. He also has the lowest postseason INT rate in NFL history (now 1.36 percent in 11 games) and the best postseason record in NFL history (10-1).

Manning and his offense collapse year after year
The Colts are 3-6 in the playoffs under Manning and their star-studded offense has been the main problem. They’ve averaged just 11.3 PPG in their six playoff losses, while the prolific Manning-to-Marvin Harrison combo has connected for just 2 TDs in nine playoff games together. Manning has played his worst game of the year four times in six postseason appearances.

Manning has had some spectacular playoff games … but they’ve been sandwiched by some of the most embarrassing games of his career, including a 31.2 passer rating against the 9-7 Jets in the 2002 playoffs (the worst statistical game of his career) and a 35.5 passer rating against the Patriots in the 2003 AFC title game (the biggest game of his career).

Brady has done more than Manning to turn around the fortunes of his franchise
The Colts were a struggling team that was won its fair share of regular-season games with Manning at the helm, but they’ve advanced beyond the divisional playoffs just once.

Brady has taken over a team that had won just eight playoff games in its 41-year history and led it to three Super Bowl championships, while setting every team win streak in NFL history along the way: regular season (18), postseason (10) and overall victories (21).

Last year provided a perfect case study of the respective positions of each team. The Colts flirted with an undefeated campaign before finishing the regular season at 14-2. The injury-riddled Patriots stumbled into the playoffs with a 10-6 record. Both teams ended the season with losses in the divisional playoffs.

Brady has done more than Manning to turn around the fortunes of his coach
Tony Dungy had a 56-46 (.549) coaching record (2-4 in the postseason) when guys like Trent Dilfer and Shaun King ran his offense. He has a 58-20 (.744) record (3-4 in the postseason) with Manning at quarterback.

Bill Belichick had a career record of 42-58 (.420) – including a 1-1 playoff mark – before handing the reins to Brady. His record since is 73-22 (.768), which includes a 10-1 (.909) mark in the playoffs.

Brady plays better head-to-head
Manning and Brady have faced each other seven times in the past. There’s no doubt Brady has gotten the better of the head-to-head matchup. His Patriots are 6-1 in those seven games, including a 2-0 mark in the playoffs. Brady has clearly outshined Manning:
Brady: 143 for 213 (67.1%), 1,587 yards, 7.5 YPA, 13 TDs, 4 INTs, 101.6 rating
Manning: 165 for 271 (60.9%), 1,863 yards, 6.9 YPA, 12 TDs, 11 INTs, 79.3 rating
Manning should have great numbers
The Colts have given Manning every imaginable resource needed to post eye-popping numbers.


In his first eight years, he handed the ball off to two Hall of Fame running backs, Marshall Faulk and Edgerrin James. When James left Indy for Arizona, Colts management responded by devoting their No. 1 draft pick to a ballcarrier (Joseph Addai) who could replace him.

He also throws the ball to a collection of fleet-footed, No. 1-draft-pick receivers, and has been given years to develop a rapport with his pass catchers. In his nine years in the NFL, Manning has had just three different leading receivers: Faulk in 1998, and then Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne every year since. And, don’t forget, Harrison led the Colts in receiving twice (1996 and 1997) before Manning joined the team in 1998.

Brady should not have great numbers
While Indy management makes every effort to ensure Manning is surrounded by big-name offensive talent, New England management gives Brady no such luxury.

The 2006 offseason stands as Exhibit A.

The “pundits” were apoplectic when New England refused to break the bank for their top two receivers from 2005. Both receivers, Deion Branch and David Givens, found flawed teams to overpay for them and moved elsewhere.

Brady has responded with what may be his best season. He’s on pace to set a personal record with 32 TD passes, while his game has been as steady as a surgeon’s hands. In his first three years, he posted passer ratings of 86.5, 85.7 and 85.9. In the three years since, he’s posted passer ratings of 92.6, 92.3 and, here in 2006, stands at 92.2 and rising.

We wonder what Manning’s numbers would look like if Bill Polian dumped Wayne and Harrison this year and replaced them with Doug Gabriel and Reche Caldwell. Or what they might look like if he never had Harrison, James and Wayne on his side to begin with.

The talent
The advantage of accompanying offensive talent that Manning enjoys over Brady is evident when we look at the Pro Bowlers each quarterback has played with.

Manning has played with 14 Pro Bowlers in his eight years in the league, including Marvin Harrison (7), Edgerrin James (4), Marshall Faulk (1), Ken Dilger (1) and Jeff Saturday (1).

Brady has played with two Pro Bowlers: Troy Brown in 2001 and Corey Dillon in 2004.

That’s it.

There’s more to being a quarterback than just passing the ball
“Pundits” devote so much of their energy to comparing quarterbacks based solely upon passing stats. The Cold, Hard Football Facts are also guilty. The position is easy to compare solely by looking at the passing numbers.

But “passing” and “quarterbacking” are not the same thing.

Throwing the ball is just one part of the being a quarterback. The rest of the position is about leadership and – in a black-and-white industry – about winning.

Nobody has won with more consistency, especially in the postseason, than Tom Brady.

Rausch
11-16-2006, 03:59 PM
put Manning on the Patriots, and he has 5 super bowl rings.

Put Manning on the Patriots and they have no super bowls.

Anytime Manning plays a good defense in the playoffs he chokes. He makes mistakes that cost his team games.

You give Brady Marvin Harrison and an Edge quality HB and they would have gone undefeated...

Hound333
11-16-2006, 04:28 PM
I can't wait until he does loose Harrison and Wayne. We will then find out if those two were making Pro-bowls because Manning was throwing to them or if Manning was putting up numbers because of them.

OnTheWarpath58
11-16-2006, 05:35 PM
Put Manning on the Patriots and they have no super bowls.

Anytime Manning plays a good defense in the playoffs he chokes. He makes mistakes that cost his team games.

You give Brady Marvin Harrison and an Edge quality HB and they would have gone undefeated...


Absolutely.....

Brady has done a LOT more with a LOT less and yet Manning's the better QB? Peyton has had all the talent in the world around him and has never risen to the occasion. When all eyes are on him, in the biggest game, he tends to wilt.

Brady would have 5 rings by now if he had Harrison, Wayne and edge around him.

Now if we want to argue about who's the best regular season QB.....

But for this argument, I'll take the guy with the 3-0 lead in rings and a 2-0 lead in SB MVP trophies.....

the Talking Can
11-16-2006, 05:57 PM
....Brady is a two-time Super Bowl MVP who has given us some of the most amazing playoff performances in history.

He has played in three Super Bowls – and had a passer rating over 100 in all three games – while joining the list of all-time Super Bowl legends. He also has the lowest postseason INT rate in NFL history (now 1.36 percent in 11 games) and the best postseason record in NFL history (10-1).

Manning and his offense collapse year after year
The Colts are 3-6 in the playoffs under Manning and their star-studded offense has been the main problem. They’ve averaged just 11.3 PPG in their six playoff losses, while the prolific Manning-to-Marvin Harrison combo has connected for just 2 TDs in nine playoff games together. Manning has played his worst game of the year four times in six postseason appearances.

Manning has had some spectacular playoff games … but they’ve been sandwiched by some of the most embarrassing games of his career, including a 31.2 passer rating against the 9-7 Jets in the 2002 playoffs (the worst statistical game of his career) and a 35.5 passer rating against the Patriots in the 2003 AFC title game (the biggest game of his career)...."



that pretty much covers it....

Sure-Oz
11-16-2006, 06:30 PM
Put Manning on the Patriots and they have no super bowls.

Anytime Manning plays a good defense in the playoffs he chokes. He makes mistakes that cost his team games.

You give Brady Marvin Harrison and an Edge quality HB and they would have gone undefeated...
According to Pootie Tang, he thinks Manning made Harrison and all of them better! :rolleyes: Manning has great talent around him, Brady has never had superior talent, just a team that played hard.

Deberg_1990
11-16-2006, 06:38 PM
Manning just needs to win big in the playoffs and get this monkey off his back. Fact is, he hasnt won a big game since high school. What does it say about Manning that Tennessee won a National Championship with Tee Martin the year after he left???

Hootie
11-16-2006, 06:42 PM
when the **** is Manning going to lose Harrison and Wayne? They are both locked up long term...

And again, you guys really think that Manning has nothing to do with their success?

No one wants to comment on the Kennison/Harrison flip?

You don't think that makes sense?

Man, seriously...I sometimes wonder if you all can form your own opinions or you just flip on the TV, nod your head a few times, and let the "analysts" make up your mind for you.

ROYC75
11-16-2006, 08:04 PM
You gotta count the rings. I don't care what kind of stats Jesus puts up, until he shows that he can win big games I'll put him in second place in this contest. Also, FTR, someone who was calling for Huard over Green has zero credibility in this debate.

##########Edit###########

I was referring to the thread starter on the credibility issue.

Trent Dilfer
Doug Williams
Joe Thiesman
Jim Plunket
Daryl Lamonica

Just some of the guys who has rings...... I see none of them better than Manning .

When it comes to managing a game, I have never seen anybody better than Peyton Manning in altering the plays or a game. It's almost like having a 2nd OC on the team. Keep in mind, Manning has alot of talented WR's all the time too.

Sure-Oz
11-16-2006, 08:07 PM
when the **** is Manning going to lose Harrison and Wayne? They are both locked up long term...

And again, you guys really think that Manning has nothing to do with their success?

No one wants to comment on the Kennison/Harrison flip?

You don't think that makes sense?

Man, seriously...I sometimes wonder if you all can form your own opinions or you just flip on the TV, nod your head a few times, and let the "analysts" make up your mind for you.
Do you want us to agree with you all the ****in time?? Who said Manning had nothing to do with their success?? it works both damn ways! Those WR's are really talented and so is he, you can't discredit either one. I just want to see what he does under fire and with average WR's. I think it's stupid to compare Manning to Brady when brady has won way more in this level than manning has.

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-16-2006, 08:09 PM
when the **** is Manning going to lose Harrison and Wayne? They are both locked up long term...

And again, you guys really think that Manning has nothing to do with their success?

No one wants to comment on the Kennison/Harrison flip?

You don't think that makes sense?

Man, seriously...I sometimes wonder if you all can form your own opinions or you just flip on the TV, nod your head a few times, and let the "analysts" make up your mind for you.

The same analysts who say "Peyton Manning is playing the QB position better than anyone ever has" like Salisbury and Jaws have opined this year??

Or would these be the same analysts that are universally condemned on this board because of their flyover mentality??

Reading your posts is like using sulphuric acid instead of visine.

Hootie
11-16-2006, 08:19 PM
Reading your posts is like using sulphuric acid instead of visine.
Oh yeah, WELL, reading your posts is like putting ketchup on steak! Yeah! SWEET! YAY!

'Hamas' Jenkins
11-16-2006, 08:20 PM
Oh yeah, WELL, reading your posts is like putting ketchup on steak! Yeah! SWEET! YAY!

Was the Illinois State you attended an accredited college or a correctional facility?

Hootie
11-16-2006, 08:21 PM
Was the Illinois State you attended an accredited college or a correctional facility?
reading your posts is like screwing my sister...

I don't have a good analogy here, I just wanted to say something about screwing my sister.

Valiant
11-16-2006, 08:53 PM
Put Manning on the Patriots and they have no super bowls.

Anytime Manning plays a good defense in the playoffs he chokes. He makes mistakes that cost his team games.

You give Brady Marvin Harrison and an Edge quality HB and they would have gone undefeated...


If the Colts didn't have a chiefs like defense they would have won a SB.. Brady and the offense are not the sole reason for the playoff success..

That team has TEAM spelt all over it, it is not individual like the Colts and most teams... Their players take less money usually to stay and win.. It is a team environment... Individually Peyton is hands down the better QB in every way compared to Brady... Peyton also has had to play better in the past to compensate for his defense...

Now for a QB that does what a system/team ask for him it is Brady. Brady has the intanglibles for success... He plays above his level when it counts which is something that Peyton does not do... Brady also has had a defense in the past to fall back on..

Peyton will get his ring and go into the HOF with almost every record when he retires...

Peyton also it looks like made Edge to appear better then he was at Indy..


Bottom line you cannot win anything or be successful without the help of your team... You either make them look better or they make you look better...

Halfcan
11-16-2006, 09:04 PM
The NFL has protected perfect Peaton since he came into the NFL and yet he still chokes in the Playoffs. I mean when the ref lets your Oline hold on every play and doesn't call any penalties on your team-you have a good chance to win.

Deberg_1990
11-16-2006, 09:09 PM
If the Colts didn't have a chiefs like defense they would have won a SB..

Which just astounds me because of the great defense that Dungy built in Tampa....

SO far, you would have to say that Dungy hasnt improved them much.


Ive also said before that i think that Manning needs to learn to rely on his teamates more and perhaps needs a pounding run game to compliment him. Elway finally learned this, but Marino never did.

Manning is this generations Dan Marino.

kcxiv
11-16-2006, 10:24 PM
Brady has had complete teams. thats an easy one. Manning hands down.

kcxiv
11-16-2006, 10:25 PM
Which just astounds me because of the great defense that Dungy built in Tampa....

SO far, you would have to say that Dungy hasnt improved them much.


Ive also said before that i think that Manning needs to learn to rely on his teamates more and perhaps needs a pounding run game to compliment him. Elway finally learned this, but Marino never did.

Manning is this generations Dan Marino.
When its all said and done it will be Marino was 80-90's Peyton Manning. lol

Halfcan
11-16-2006, 10:25 PM
Marino was much better than Peaton in every way.

Manning and his 1 yard shovel pass when he could just walk it in-he is a stats guy that will never win the big game.

milkman
11-16-2006, 10:57 PM
Marino was much better than Peaton in every way.

Manning and his 1 yard shovel pass when he could just walk it in-he is a stats guy that will never win the big game.

Marino never had the kind of talent surrounding him on offense that Manning has.

Shula not only couldn't give him a decent D, he also never found a decent RB to compliment him, and the receivers were, for the most part, average talent.

BucEyedPea
11-16-2006, 11:01 PM
Brady has had complete teams. thats an easy one. Manning hands down.
You can't be serious with the complete teams part?

Last two SB's the Pats teams were decimated with injuries. This is what too many people forget. Obviously you're not a Pats follower. They even had a patched-up O-line and only two vets in the secondary. They also had street signers.

Halfcan
11-16-2006, 11:02 PM
Almost every descent QB can put up huge numbers now days. When Marino and Montana played-it was such a different game. I mean look what kind of number Vinnie Testeverde has put, and Drew Bledsoe.

Manning is the most pampered and protected player in the game-and his sack numbers prove it.

Brock
11-16-2006, 11:31 PM
No one wants to comment on the Kennison/Harrison flip?


Sure, it's ****ing stupid. Anything else?

Valiant
11-17-2006, 01:03 AM
You can't be serious with the complete teams part?

Last two SB's the Pats teams were decimated with injuries. This is what too many people forget. Obviously you're not a Pats follower. They even had a patched-up O-line and only two vets in the secondary. They also had street signers.


But they had a dline that stuffed the run and got to the QB quick enough to make any dbacks look good... Pats fans need to quit acting like they dbacks made them average..

You could have four all pro people in the secondary and will lose everytime if your dline is not worth a damn...

2004--- 2nd in pts given up, 16.2...
3.9 rushing avg, and under 100 yards a game...

2003--- 1st in pts given up, 14.9...
3.6 rushing avg, and under 90 yards a game..

Yeah pretty much a shitty D...

:rolleyes:

Hootie
11-17-2006, 02:38 AM
Sure, it's ****ing stupid. Anything else?
hahahahaha, I expected nothing less from you.