Were the police right to taze this guy?

[banyon]

About 5 minutes long. The "action" sort of picks up near minute 4.

<param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VP_M8s0GFEc"></param>
<param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VP_M8s0GFEc" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
UCPD officers shot a student several times with a Taser inside the Powell Library CLICC computer lab late Tuesday night before taking him into custody.

No university police officers were available to comment further about the incident as of 3 a.m. Wednesday, and no Community Service Officers who were on duty at the time could be reached.

At around 11:30 p.m., CSOs asked a male student using a computer in the back of the room to leave when he was unable to produce a BruinCard during a random check. The student did not exit the building immediately.

The CSOs left, returning minutes later, and police officers arrived to escort the student out. By this time the student had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack when an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, at which point the student told the officer to let him go. A second officer then approached the student as well.

The student began to yell “get off me,” repeating himself several times.

It was at this point that the officers shot the student with a Taser for the first time, causing him to fall to the floor and cry out in pain. The student also told the officers he had a medical condition.

UCPD officers confirmed that the man involved in the incident was a student, but did not give a name or any additional information about his identity.

[Radar Chief]

Yup.

[Sully]

That's absolutely horrifying.
I can't even imagine what I'd do if standing there watching that. I'd have to react somehow... but I don't know how. I'm not really a violent person, so I'm not saying I'd rush in, fists swinging... but I can't imagine just watching, either.

[noa]

That guy didn't have a student ID? I'm surprised they didn't use a real gun.

[trndobrd]

Tazing USC students is always acceptable.

[Radar Chief]

That's absolutely horrifying.
I can't even imagine what I'd do if standing there watching that. I'd have to react somehow... but I don't know how. I'm not really a violent person, so I'm not saying I'd rush in, fists swinging... but I can't imagine just watching, either.

Have’n been in the undesirable position of stick’n my nose where it didn’t belong (got between a guy beat’n his girl outside a waterhole only to have her jump my back while I’m teach’n the abuser a thing or two), I can honestly say I have no problems watch’n this dumbazz get that treatment for belligerently refusing to comply with simple commands. Dude apparently has a problem with authority that’ll probably haunt’im later in life.

[banyon]

Tazing USC students is always acceptable.

LOL, I don't think USC students are required to have BruinID cards.

[banyon]

For my 2 cents, I'm leery of what seems to be a predilection by police to use tasers in situations where it seems like some raw muscle would do the job. I would think tasers should be used to subdue the violent who are a legitimate threat to the saftey of the responding officers, not to tell people to "move along".

[trndobrd]

LOL, I don't think USC students are required to have BruinID cards.


errr...UCLA students too. :thumb:

[Mr. Kotter]

Why would you think they were not right? The kid was a punk, and refused to cooperate--and became combative and belligerent. I think it was pretty obvious he wasn't going to respond to "please" at that point...

I'm not saying I would have handled it the same way; but the kid was responsible for this....

Should they have given him cookies and milk instead?


:shrug:

[banyon]

Why would you think they were not right? The kid was a punk, and refused to cooperate--and became combative and belligerent. I think it was pretty obvious he wasn't going to respond to "please" at that point...

Should they have given him cookies and milk instead?


:shrug:

I responded with my reason in my "2 cents" post.

[patteeu]

For my 2 cents, I'm leery of what seems to be a predilection by police to use tasers in situations where it seems like some raw muscle would do the job. I would think tasers should be used to subdue the violent who are a legitimate threat to the saftey of the responding officers, not to tell people to "move along".

That was my thought as I watched. I agree with Radar that the guy doesn't have much to complain about given the way he refused to obey what seemed like a reasonable command, but I have to believe they could have just cuffed the guy on the ground and dragged him out if he wouldn't ambulate under his own power. I don't think the cops should face any serious punishment, but they probably should be encouraged to use a different approach next time. The student needs some reorientation though. I voted "Both were to blame."

[Mr. Kotter]

I responded with my reason in my "2 cents" post.I EDITED my other post to make clear I wouldn't have probably handled it this way; but this is pretty clearly on the kid....

Should the police have shown some restraint? Maybe. But we don't have the details....leading up to this, or any history that might exist....or know what the school's policy and training are....so I'll defer to the people until I have reason to believe otherwise, I guess.

[Saggysack]

Hard to say either way since we don't see the whole incident. It does look like to me that the repeated strikes from the taser incapacitated him enough to where he couldn't stand up. On another note, looks like the kid will have enough witnesses for a civil suit though. I would like to see what the taser log says on duration of discharge. If the total duration is longer than 30secs, the UCPD is pretty much ****ed.

[Radar Chief]

For my 2 cents, I'm leery of what seems to be a predilection by police to use tasers in situations where it seems like some raw muscle would do the job. I would think tasers should be used to subdue the violent who are a legitimate threat to the saftey of the responding officers, not to tell people to "move along".

Agreed, completely. But this particular instance looks like more than a subtle “move along” moment. The guy was go’n out of’is way to be recalcitrant from the git-go. How many freak’n times ya gotta be told to stand up before you put your gawdamn feed on the ground and stand up. :shake:
But that’s the thing ‘bout be’n a cop that I could never do. Deal’n with the dumbazzes that wanna be an a**hole to ya then claim abuse when they refuse to comply with simple commands.

[go bowe]

Why would you think they were not right? The kid was a punk, and refused to cooperate--and became combative and belligerent. I think it was pretty obvious he wasn't going to respond to "please" at that point...

I'm not saying I would have handled it the same way; but the kid was responsible for this....

Should they have given him cookies and milk instead?


:shrug:see post #8...

[Mr. Kotter]

That was my thought as I watched. I agree with Radar that the guy doesn't have much to complain about given the way he refused to obey what seemed like a reasonable command, but I have to believe they could have just cuffed the guy on the ground and dragged him out if he wouldn't ambulate under his own power. I don't think the cops should face any serious punishment, but they probably should be encouraged to use a different approach next time. The student needs some reorientation though. I voted "Both were to blame."
Yeah, I was too quick on the poll....I should have "Both were to blame"....but mostly, it was the kid.

[patteeu]

Hard to say either way since we don't see the whole incident.

We definitely could have used a better cameraman and a video editor. :thumb:

[Radar Chief]

Hard to say either way since we don't see the whole incident. It does look like to me that the repeated strikes from the taser incapacitated him enough to where he couldn't stand up. On another note, looks like the kid will have enough witnesses for a civil suit though. I would like to see what the taser log says on duration of discharge. If the total duration is longer than 30secs, the UCPD is pretty much ****ed.


That’s interesting. I never knew they had anything to log duration.

[Saggysack]

I find it kinda funny that the kid in the white shirt pleading for the guy was told he would be tased towards the end of the video. What exactly was the threat he was posing?

[Saggysack]

That’s interesting. I never knew they had anything to log duration.

Yep, they do. Been many cases of death from repeated use in the 30sec range.

[go bowe]

That was my thought as I watched. I agree with Radar that the guy doesn't have much to complain about given the way he refused to obey what seemed like a reasonable command, but I have to believe they could have just cuffed the guy on the ground and dragged him out if he wouldn't ambulate under his own power. I don't think the cops should face any serious punishment, but they probably should be encouraged to use a different approach next time. The student needs some reorientation though. I voted "Both were to blame."wwdcd?

(what would dick cheney do?)

they could have shackled his feet and arms together and then drag/carry him out...

tazers are too easy for cops who might be angry or just assholes on a power trip...

tazers should be reserved for the more violent types, or drug-crazed pcp freaks, or children who misbehave... :rolleyes:

[Dave Lane]

I'm in the middle here. Overzealous use of the tazer but dude just stand up.

Dvae

[Dave Lane]

Where is the waterboard him option?

Dave

[Radar Chief]

I find it kinda funny that the kid in the white shirt pleading for the guy was told he would be tased towards the end of the video. What exactly was the threat he was posing?

They have to diffuse the situation, keep it from escalating more than it already has. If they allow a guy to rant on the side, possibly even to the point of inciting others, then they’re at fault for allowing it.

[redbrian]

The kid is 100% at fault; I had to use the other vote to take the bias out of your response.

The kid did not force the police to use the taser but his actions resulted in the taser being used.

If you notice when the police try to stand the dip up he kicks up his feet putting his full weight on the officers trying to escort him out.

I have the feeling he did this previously to being tazed as well.

My take on it is that he was unresponsive to walking out on his own; by his actions he was putting the officers in danger of wrecking their backs over this stupid incident created 100% by the “student”.

[Radar Chief]

Yep, they do. Been many cases of death from repeated use in the 30sec range.

Really. Thanks again. Kinda messes up the whole “non-lethal” aspect, huh.

[Chiefnj]

4 officers couldn't hog tie and carry him out?

[Saggysack]

Really. Thanks again. Kinda messes up the whole “non-lethal” aspect, huh.

It's still non-lethal. Just needs to be put to better use. IMO if the subject doesn't comply after 1st or 2nd strike, the officers need to pick them up and move them where needed. The repeated strikes look more like summary punishment, rather than taking control of the situation.

[go bowe]

I find it kinda funny that the kid in the white shirt pleading for the guy was told he would be tased towards the end of the video. What exactly was the threat he was posing?interfering with a police officer would be my guess...

the police could have taken his ass to jail too...

but tazering either one was inappropriate, imo...

[patteeu]

wwdcd?

(what would dick cheney do?)

You don't have to spell it out for me. I've got a WWDCD wristband on right now. :D

[Saggysack]

interfering with a police officer would be my guess...

the police could have taken his ass to jail too...

but tazering either one was inappropriate, imo...

I don't know if he was exactly interfering. Hard to say, since the officer who told him that had just walked in and obviously wasn't aware of the complete situation.

I counted 7 strikes... ouch

[Chiefnj]

I wonder if the officers received their training from the same place as these guys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKzSHtYqQvo

[go bowe]

You don't have to spell it out for me. I've got a WWDCD wristband on right now. :Dit wasn't just for you...

there are some around here that need to have things spelled out, i was just trying to help out...

new tone and all that... :D :D :D

[patteeu]

it wasn't just for you...

there are some around here that need to have things spelled out, i was just trying to help out...

new tone and all that... :D :D :D

Gotcha! :thumb:

[Demonpenz]

People say that these kids are pussies these days, that dude was so hard it took 4 cops and a taser to get him just to stand up.

[Radar Chief]

I counted 7 strikes... ouch

He’ll feel that in the morning.

[Cochise]

The options given are kind of bad. There's nothing in between "student forced their hand" and "excessive force".

Where is the "Cops had their discretion in how much force to use, they could have used less but he doesn't have any right to complain since he was being a dickhole and refused to leave when asked."

[banyon]

The options given are kind of bad. There's nothing in between "student forced their hand" and "excessive force".

Where is the "Cops had their discretion in how much force to use, they could have used less but he doesn't have any right to complain since he was being a dickhole and refused to leave when asked."

I think I named that "other", wiseguy. :)

[Adept Havelock]

Way out of line. They could have easily physically removed him without Tasering his ass multiple times. From what I saw, he was no threat to the cops, or anyone around him.

People have died from multiple Taser strikes. IMO, some cops are a little too quick on the trigger when it comes to those toys.

[JBucc]

No. They should have used one of those bean bag shotguns or that gun that shoots out that sticky white crap. Then when he was down they should have put him in a deer suit and layed him down by the side the road. After Hathaway was done with him I doubt he'd cause any trouble.

[redbrian]

Way out of line. They could have easily physically removed him without Tasering his ass multiple times. From what I saw, he was no threat to the cops, or anyone around him.

People have died from multiple Taser strikes. IMO, some cops are a little too quick on the trigger when it comes to those toys.

The kid should of left when he was told too, the first time.

You play you pay.

[Dark Horse]

Kind of makes you miss the good old days when cops would either beat you senseless with their night stick or just shoot you and claim you tried to run over them in your car.

[Jenson71]

No, it probably wasn't right. The dumb kid will probably turn into McVeigh II.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

This is what happens when you let people with 3 months of formal training have absolute agency over everyone else in society.

Like they couldn't just pick him up and carry him outside :shake:

And Radar, this is just my 2 cents, but you did the right thing by stepping in against that guy who was pounding on his woman. It was the right thing to do. I realize that getting brained from behind might make you leery about doing it again, but put yourself in the woman's shoes there...

['Hamas' Jenkins]

If you notice when the police try to stand the dip up he kicks up his feet putting his full weight on the officers trying to escort him out.

I have the feeling he did this previously to being tazed as well.

My take on it is that he was unresponsive to walking out on his own; by his actions he was putting the officers in danger of wrecking their backs over this stupid incident created 100% by the “student”.

Then drag him outside. It's a hell of a lot less painful, and it doesn't put any strain on your back.

[Adept Havelock]

The kid should of left when he was told too, the first time.

You play you pay.

Yes, but only a jackass uses a sledgehammer to kill an ant, or a nuke to kill a tank platoon. I suppose one might also condone said act. The cops could have just as easily grabbed him and removed him. He was not a physical threat to the armed cops or bystanders from what I could see.

What they did was excessive. It's not the job of the cops to dispense punishment in this legal system. That seems to be what you are advocating when you say "You play you pay". It's the job of the courts to punish, not the police.

Should the kid have left when asked? Absolutely.

Should the police just have grabbed him, cuffed him, and dragged him out? Absolutely.

Did the cops need to Taser him multiple times at the risk of killing him when all he did was refuse to leave the premises and got mouthy? Absolutely not.
:harumph:

[redbrian]

Yes, but only a jackass uses a sledgehammer to kill an ant, or a nuke to kill a tank platoon. I suppose one might also condone said act. The cops could have just as easily grabbed him and removed him. He was not a physical threat to the armed cops or bystanders from what I could see.

What they did was excessive. It's not the job of the cops to dispense punishment in this legal system. That seems to be what you are advocating when you say "You play you pay". It's the job of the courts to punish, not the police.

Should the kid have left when asked. Absolutely. Should the police have resorted to a Taser when the multiple officers could just have grabbed him, cuffed him, and dragged him out? Absolutely.

Did the cops need to Taser him multiple times at the risk of killing him when all he did was refuse to leave the premises and got mouthy? Absolutely not.
:harumph:

The dipshit was kicking and floping around when the cops tried to haul him out, secondly why should they have to carry him out, was his legs broken no.

I have no sympathy for the little dip.

Should of zapped him a couple of more times just for the heck of it.

[Adept Havelock]

The dipshit was kicking and floping around when the cops tried to haul him out, secondly why should they have to carry him out, was his legs broken no.

I have no sympathy for the little dip.

Should of zapped him a couple of more times just for the heck of it.

You sir, are a jackass and a sadist, as evidenced by your last line. It's not about sympathy for the idiot, it's about Police acting like Police, not thugs playing "payback".

It's quite pitiful you can't, or won't, see that.

As for "they might hurt their backs".. :rolleyes:

Ever see the physical test a firefighter has to go through? Considering the import of their job, I see no reason a cop shouldn't be required to be just as physically capable. If two cops are not capable of dragging someone, they don't belong on the street.

[|Zach|]

They have to diffuse the situation, keep it from escalating more than it already has. If they allow a guy to rant on the side, possibly even to the point of inciting others, then they’re at fault for allowing it.
Are you trying to make the point that tazing that kid wouldn't have incited others?

[dj56dt58]

cops are douchebags and can all go to hell. They all seem to think their better than everybody else and break the same laws they arrest people for without repracussion

[redbrian]

You sir, are a jackass and a sadist, as evidenced by your last line. It's not about sympathy for the idiot, it's about Police acting like Police, not thugs playing "payback".

It's quite pitiful you can't, or won't, see that.

As for "they might hurt their backs".. :rolleyes:

Ever see the physical test a firefighter has to go through? Considering the import of their job, I see no reason a cop shouldn't be required to be just as physically capable. If two cops are not capable of dragging someone, they don't belong on the street.

Hauling dead weight is one thing, hauling a struggling asshole is entirely another.

I see no need to baby these little punks, have you ever notice it’s never these kids faults, it’s always the people in authority who are wrong.

What you need to do is sit down with some cops over a few beers or better yet go along on a ride along and find out about the real world.

Don’t want to be tazed it’s simple do what you are told to do, it was not an unreasonable demand by the police.

Sadist no, just a low threshold for spoiled brats.

[redbrian]

cops are douchebags and can all go to hell. They all seem to think their better than everybody else and break the same laws they arrest people for without repracussion

Now there is an enlightened response, hope you don’t ever need any help from the police.

[stevieray]

I remember when cops would catch you with beer and if you weren't drunk, they'd just make you pour it out on the side of the road and you'd be on your way.


I think this isn't out of the norm, considering the social climate we live in today.

[Adept Havelock]

Hauling dead weight is one thing, hauling a struggling asshole is entirely another.

I see no need to baby these little punks, have you ever notice it’s never these kids faults, it’s always the people in authority who are wrong.

What you need to do is sit down with some cops over a few beers or better yet go along on a ride along and find out about the real world.

Don’t want to be tazed it’s simple do what you are told to do, it was not an unreasonable demand by the police.

Sadist no, just a low threshold for spoiled brats.


I've known cops. I've done ride alongs. I have nothing but respect for the thin blue line. It's the difference between civilization and the jungle.

That's why it pisses me off to see folks wearing that badge acting like thugs. There was no need for the cops to risk the kids life like that. Not when less dangerous options were available. If the kid had attacked the cops, I would have no problem with them using whatever force they needed to put him down. He didn't attack them, he acted like a jackass.

Again, it's a pity you don't get that.

BTW-Don't put words in my mouth. I never said it wasn't the kids fault. He should have been cuffed and dragged out. If two cops aren't physically capable of that, they shouldn't be cops.

cops are douchebags and can all go to hell. They all seem to think their better than everybody else and break the same laws they arrest people for without repracussion
I don't know if you're a sadist like redbrian seems to be, but IMO you are clearly a jackass.

Hope you never need a cop. Karma is a bitch.

[Nightwish]

interfering with a police officer would be my guess...

the police could have taken his ass to jail too...

but tazering either one was inappropriate, imo...
According to the audio and video footage they showed earlier on MSNBC, the student was already trying to leave (which is what the police officers were ostensibly there to make him do anyway), when the officer grabbed him. It was suggested on the program that the police may have reacted the way they did because the student was of Arabic decent, and after they tasered him, they also threatened to taser some other students who were demanding their badge numbers. We don't know the whole story, maybe the kid said something to set the officer off, but the video and audio suggest the officers were way excessive. And if they were threatening to taser anyone who demanded their badge numbers, it also sounds like they were trying to avoid accountability for racial profiling. That's how it looks, anyway. Whether that's the totality of what happened, who knows?

[redbrian]

I've known cops. I've done ride alongs. I have nothing but respect for the thin blue line. It's the difference between civilization and the jungle.


That's why it pisses me off to see folks wearing that badge acting like thugs.

Again, it's a pity you don't get that.

BTW-Don't put words in my mouth. I never said it wasn't the kids fault. He should have been cuffed and dragged out. If two cops aren't physically capable of that, they shouldn't be cops.

Never played Brittish Bulldog as a kid did you, it's not that easy to drag or pick-up a thrasing body with out risking injury.

These guys were not acting like thugs; the kid was out of control and non-cooperative.

All he had to have done was to leave when he was asked, he choose to physically resist, so he paid the price with a couple of shocks.

Sorry but I have no sympathy for him at all.

[redbrian]

According to the audio and video footage they showed earlier on MSNBC, the student was already trying to leave (which is what the police officers were ostensibly there to make him do anyway), when the officer grabbed him. It was suggested on the program that the police may have reacted the way they did because the student was of Arabic decent, and after they tasered him, they also threatened to taser some other students who were demanding their badge numbers. We don't know the whole story, maybe the kid said something to set the officer off, but the video and audio suggest the officers were way excessive. And if they were threatening to taser anyone who demanded their badge numbers, it also sounds like they were trying to avoid accountability for racial profiling. That's how it looks, anyway. Whether that's the totality of what happened, who knows?

:rolleyes:

You just knew the race card was coming out.

[Nightwish]

:rolleyes:

You just knew the race card was coming out.
That was according to MSNBC.

[Nightwish]

All he had to have done was to leave when he was asked, he choose to physically resist, so he paid the price with a couple of shocks.
According to the eyewitnesses, he was trying to leave. The physicality was instigated by the police. You could hear the kid screaming several times that he had been trying to leave, and the witness accounts seem to bear that out. It doesn't appear that the kid got beligerent until the police prevented him from doing what the campus security had initially asked him to do.

[redbrian]

According to the eyewitnesses, he was trying to leave. The physicality was instigated by the police. You could hear the kid screaming several times that he had been trying to leave, and the witness accounts seem to bear that out. It doesn't appear that the kid got beligerent until the police prevented him from doing what the campus security had initially asked him to do.

So thats why when the police pick him up he kicks his legs in the air and thrashes around, just trying to help.

Sorry don't buy it.

[dirk digler]

Obviously some of you have never worked in law enforcement because you have no idea about the force continum.

Lethal weapons
Impact moves and throws
Less-than-lethal weapons
Control moves
Communication
Body movement and posture

When I used to be a deputy I only maced somebody when I felt like I was in danger of getting my ass whipped when I was alone. One night a Highway Patrolman brought in a guy for DWI and left because he had another call. Unfortuntely I was working in the jail that night so I had to process the guy and he was Vietnam vet. He started having flashbacks when I started to fingerprint him and was acting all psycho. Since I was alone I called for backup then maced his ass because I couldn't wait any longer. That guy was a nutcase.

As you can see from the video the "cops" skipped past the first 3 and just tazed the guy. These guys are pussies if they couldn't handle 1 person.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

So thats why when the police pick him up he kicks his legs in the air and thrashes around, just trying to help.

Sorry don't buy it.

You are a reprehensible human being. :shake:

[|Zach|]

Didn't seem like the guy was thrashing around at all when he wasn't...ya know...getting tazed. He was a dragging dead weight. And they ended up just taking him out in the end as he was the whole time...as they could have from the start.

I also see nobody in this thread that says the kid doesn't have any blame in this. Lots of straw man arguments floating around.

[Nightwish]

So thats why when the police pick him up he kicks his legs in the air and thrashes around, just trying to help.

Sorry don't buy it.
You're way off. That happened a long time after they first tased him. The video in the OP doesn't pick up until after the incident had already been underway. I don't know if the MSNBC video picks up sooner than that or not, as I came in at the middle of the report, but the eyewitnesses say the kid was trying to leave when the police prevented him from doing so. Of course, they could all be lying. That's a lot of liars, though, to tell the same lie spontaneously.

[redbrian]

You are a reprehensible human being. :shake:

ROFL

Oh ouch, I'm going to lose sleep over that.

[redbrian]

You're way off. That happened a long time after they first tased him. The video in the OP doesn't pick up until after the incident had already been underway. I don't know if the MSNBC video picks up sooner than that or not, as I came in at the middle of the report, but the eyewitnesses say the kid was trying to leave when the police prevented him from doing so. Of course, they could all be lying. That's a lot of liars, though, to tell the same lie spontaneously.

How many liars......I mean witnesses were in this report that you personally read.

Or are you relying strictly on hear say news reporting which never gets it wrong.

[Halfcan]

Most cops are worthless c#cksmokers that abuse their power and get away with it.

[dirk digler]

How many liars......I mean witnesses were in this report that you personally read.

Or are relying strictly on hear say news reporting which never gets it wrong.

The kid should have left but there is no way they should have tazed him.

[redbrian]

Most cops are worthless c#cksmokers that abuse their power and get away with it.

More wisdom from the wise..................yes that’s sarcasm.

[Nightwish]

How many liars......I mean witnesses were in this report that you personally read.

Or are you relying strictly on hear say news reporting which never gets it wrong.
You seem to be having some trouble keeping up.

[Halfcan]

More wisdom from the wise..................yes that’s sarcasm.

Sorry but I have had cops throw me down the stairs, steal my beer, take money out of my wallet in front of me, and threaten to kill me. I know there must be some good ones out there-but I have never met a good cop.

[redbrian]

You seem to be having some trouble keeping up.

No I don’t think so, but boredom with the oafs did set in a long time ago.

[redbrian]

Sorry but I have had cops throw me down the stairs, steal my beer, take money out of my wallet in front of me, and threaten to kill me. I know there must be some good ones out there-but I have never met a good cop.

ROFL

No I’m sorry I shouldn’t have laughed but that…..that’s just sad man, it does really explain a lot.

[Halfcan]

ROFL

No I’m sorry I shouldn’t have laughed but that…..that’s just sad man, it does really explain a lot.

The only thing I did was piss on their Police Station sign-and they took offense-azzholes. So eat shit coplover!

[Nightwish]

No I don’t think so, but boredom with the oafs did set in a long time ago.
Okay, let me take this slowly for you ...

Student refuses to leave when asked by security, before dozens of witnesses.

Security leaves and returns with real police, before dozens of witnesses.

Student sees the police officers and decides to obey the order to leave, begins heading toward the door, in front of dozens of witnesses.

Cop grabs student and prevents him from leaving, in front of dozens of witnesses. Why did cop grab student? We don't know. It could have been because the student mouthed off to him (which doesn't give the officer the right to physically touch the student). It could have been because the student made a threatening move or comment, though no witnesses reported any such occurence. It could have been racial profiling, since the student in question is or appears to be of Arabic or Middle Eastern decent. It could have been any number of things, most of which do not give the police the right to physically assault the kid.

All of this occurs in front of dozens of witnesses. Reporters later talk to said witnesses, and many of them claim the kid was trying to leave. Even the OP indicates this. The report on MSNBC indicates this.

So who's lying, the dozens of students who witnessed the incident, or the few officers who are trying to protect their asses from an abuse scandal? You do the math.

[|Zach|]

But according to a study published in the Lancet Medical Journal in 2001, a charge of three to five seconds can result in immobilization for five to 15 minutes, which would mean that Tabatabainejad could have been physically unable to stand when the officers demanded that he do so.

(Via Daily Bruin) (http://dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=38960)

[stevieray]

translation: I instigated the situation and it's not my fault.

[|Zach|]

More from Daily Bruin

According to a UCPD press release, Tabatabainejad went limp and refused to exit as the officers attempted to escort him out. The release also stated Tabatabainejad "encouraged library patrons to join his resistance." At this point, the officers "deemed it necessary to use the Taser in a "drive stun' capacity."

"He wasn't cooperative; he wouldn't identify himself. He resisted the officers," Young said.

Neither the video footage nor eyewitness accounts of the events confirmed that Tabatabainejad encouraged resistance, and he repeatedly told the officers he was not fighting and would leave.

Tabatabainejad was walking with his backpack toward the door when he was approached by two UCPD officers, one of whom grabbed the student's arm. In response, Tabatabainejad yelled at the officers to "get off me." Following this demand, Tabatabainejad was stunned with a Taser.

[Nightwish]

But according to a study published in the Lancet Medical Journal in 2001, a charge of three to five seconds can result in immobilization for five to 15 minutes, which would mean that Tabatabainejad could have been physically unable to stand when the officers demanded that he do so.

(Via Daily Bruin) (http://dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=38960)
When I was watching the video, I kept asking myself, "Are these cops brain dead?" I mean, they taze the guy then immediately demand that he stand up, and when he doesn't (because he can't), they use that as an excuse to taze him some more.

[redbrian]

Okay, let me take this slowly for you ...

Student refuses to leave when asked by security, before dozens of witnesses.

Security leaves and returns with real police, before dozens of witnesses.

Student sees the police officers and decides to obey the order to leave, begins heading toward the door, in front of dozens of witnesses.

Cop grabs student and prevents him from leaving, in front of dozens of witnesses. Why did cop grab student? We don't know. It could have been because the student mouthed off to him (which doesn't give the officer the right to physically touch the student). It could have been because the student made a threatening move or comment, though no witnesses reported any such occurence. It could have been racial profiling, since the student in question is or appears to be of Arabic or Middle Eastern decent. It could have been any number of things, most of which do not give the police the right to physically assault the kid.

All of this occurs in front of dozens of witnesses. Reporters later talk to said witnesses, and many of them claim the kid was trying to leave. Even the OP indicates this. The report on MSNBC indicates this.

So who's lying, the dozens of students who witnessed the incident, or the few officers who are trying to protect their asses from an abuse scandal? You do the math.


Ok I’ll play……you know this because (“I don't know if the MSNBC video picks up sooner than that or not, as I came in at the middle of the report”) you half assed caught a TV report, which as we all know never gets it right.

Are you also claiming now a second tape was shot, I didn't notice a second camera, did see a guy with a cell phone taking a photo.

[redbrian]

The only thing I did was piss on their Police Station sign-and they took offense-azzholes. So eat shit coplover!

The bastards, by god when a drunk can’t piss on a sign in this country without being abused by Gestapo brown boot wearing cops, I say we all need to take up arms and head for the hills.

[Nightwish]

Ok I’ll play……you know this because (“I don't know if the MSNBC video picks up sooner than that or not, as I came in at the middle of the report”) you half assed caught a TV report, which as we all know never gets it right.
Other accounts seem to be confirming it. MSNBC, the article from the OP, the article Zach posted from the UCLA newspaper all say the same thing, that the student was leaving. Cops who are trying to protect their own asses are the only ones saying otherwise.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Seriously, WTF can get up after being tazed?? I worked with this guy who was in a band with a cop. The dude asked the cop if he could get tazed (in the back room at our job) and the dude tazes him. He couldn't walk worth a shit for about 15 minutes.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Halfcan, I've had the gun pulled on me/death threats as well from cops. I feel your pain.

[skye22f]

But according to a study published in the Lancet Medical Journal in 2001, a charge of three to five seconds can result in immobilization for five to 15 minutes, which would mean that Tabatabainejad could have been physically unable to stand when the officers demanded that he do so.

(Via Daily Bruin) (http://dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=38960)

Well then instead of being a little bitch and screaming shit about the patriot act while they kept tasing him he should have said 'hey- i can't move'

I don't know the whole story, and if they did grab him when he was on his way out they were way wrong.

If, on the other hand, he was belligerent and refused to leave and just wanted to make a scene, feel free to have at this guy.

"Stand up or we'll tase you"
"**** the Patriot Act....OWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAHHHH"

He had it coming.

[redbrian]

What the police need is this lil upgrade………. http://www.taser.com/

The Taser Cam, don’t leave the office without it.

[Nightwish]

"Stand up or we'll tase you"
"**** the Patriot Act....OWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAHHHH"

He had it coming.
I disagree. Refusing to stand immediately after being tased (he was immobile at the time they were demanding he stand up) is not call for more tasing. Denouncing the Patriot Act because you think you're being unjustly abused because you're Arab-American is not call for more tasing. The guy may have had it coming for other reasons, but not for those two.

[|Zach|]

Well then instead of being a little bitch and screaming shit about the patriot act while they kept tasing him he should have said 'hey- i can't move'

I don't know the whole story, and if they did grab him when he was on his way out they were way wrong.

If, on the other hand, he was belligerent and refused to leave and just wanted to make a scene, feel free to have at this guy.

"Stand up or we'll tase you"
"**** the Patriot Act....OWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAHHHH"

He had it coming.
Well they ended up dragging him out by their own power...something they could have done from the very start....

So uh....I guess they won? :shrug:

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Well then instead of being a little bitch and screaming shit about the patriot act while they kept tasing him he should have said 'hey- i can't move'

I don't know the whole story, and if they did grab him when he was on his way out they were way wrong.

If, on the other hand, he was belligerent and refused to leave and just wanted to make a scene, feel free to have at this guy.

"Stand up or we'll tase you"
"**** the Patriot Act....OWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAHHHH"

He had it coming.

I for one, know that I wouldn't be pissed at the cops at all for sending hundreds of thousands of volts of debilitating electrical current coursing through my body :rolleyes:

[beer bacon]

Why would you think they were not right? The kid was a punk, and refused to cooperate--and became combative and belligerent. I think it was pretty obvious he wasn't going to respond to "please" at that point...

I'm not saying I would have handled it the same way; but the kid was responsible for this....

Should they have given him cookies and milk instead?


:shrug:



The guy was handcuffed. If he wouldn't leave on his own, then they should have just dragged him out. There is no excuse for continually pumping 10,000+ volts into a handcuffed guy because he doesn't have his student ID.

What is especially fightening is that getting shocked like that can actually cause muscle paralysis for 10+ minutes. The kid could easily have not been physically able to get up and walk out on his own after being tasered.

The fact that the cops were so stupid or lazy that they couldn't think of anything else to do other then tasering him half a dozen times is horrific as well.

[skye22f]

I disagree. Refusing to stand immediately after being tased (he was immobile at the time they were demanding he stand up) is not call for more tasing. Denouncing the Patriot Act because you think you're being unjustly abused because you're Arab-American is not call for more tasing. The guy may have had it coming for other reasons, but not for those two.

They said stand up or get it.

He could have said "I can't move"

Instead he talked politics or something.

They did what they said they'd do. He should have either done what they said to do or told them why he couldn't.

Fine by me.

[Ultra Peanut]

For my 2 cents, I'm leery of what seems to be a predilection by police to use tasers in situations where it seems like some raw muscle would do the job. I would think tasers should be used to subdue the violent who are a legitimate threat to the saftey of the responding officers, not to tell people to "move along".Exactly.

The problem isn't when it's used in a situation that would otherwise endanger an officer, it's when it's unnecessarily used in lieu of safer methods. Using a taser on a guy who's being escorted out of a library for not having an ID card? Yeah, that's reasonable.

And golly gee, I'm sure everyone in this thread would be feeling mighty clearheaded and reasonable after having the shit shocked out of them.

[beer bacon]

They said stand up or get it.

He could have said "I can't move"

Instead he talked politics or something.

They did what they said they'd do. He should have either done what they said to do or told them why he couldn't.

Fine by me.

Making an if/then statement is not actually grounds in itself for carrying out said statement.

[Ultra Peanut]

They have to diffuse the situation, keep it from escalating more than it already has.How about not breaking out a taser like it's a toy, then? If it were just some jackass being hauled out by the campus cops in cuffs, there wouldn't have been a "situation" in the first place.

If the police had exercised some caution instead of torturing and garnering sympathy for said jackass from the suddenly outraged students, the students would have simply watched the scene, muttered something about the moron causing a stir, and gone about their business.

[Ultra Peanut]

Making an if/then statement is not actually grounds in itself for carrying out said statement.If you don't delete that post, I will ****ing tase you.

[beer bacon]

If you don't delete that post, I will ****ing tase you.

Ok, for this parallel to be accurate you now have to physically stop me from editing my post while still ordering me to edit my post. Then after tasering me you have to continually scream at me to edit my post, all the while repeatedly tasering me so I am not physically able to fulfill your request.

[Ultra Peanut]

Ok, for this parallel to be accurate you now have to physically stop me from editing my post while still ordering me to edit my post. Then after tasering me you have to continually scream at me to edit my post, all the while repeatedly tasering me so I am not physically able to fulfill your request.I GAVE YOU AN ORDER

HE'S RESISTING!!!!!!!

[Demonpenz]

Reminds me of outside of legends bar in st joe these cops maced a guy while he was handcuffed the crowd got all rowdy and shit and starting throwing crap on the police cars. Takes a big man to mace a guy who is hand cuffed.

[Nightwish]

They said stand up or get it.

He could have said "I can't move"
Mostly we don't know what he said, if anything, at that time. We only know the parts that he yelled loud enough to be understood.

Instead he talked politics or something.
His comments about the Patriot Act came at a different time. That wasn't when he was down on the ground and they were demanding he stand up.

They did what they said they'd do. He should have either done what they said to do or told them why he couldn't.
Anybody with half a brain should have known why he couldn't stand up. Anybody who has seen a taser in action and has seen how it can debilitate a person, should have known why he couldn't stand up. Everyone of those officers should have known why he couldn't stand up. It goes without saying. He shouldn't have to dictate a science lesson to them. Their claim that tasering him with the front of the taser would not make him immobile is a load of horse shit, as anyone who has ever seen someone tasered that way will know. I've seen someone tasered that way, and they were down for a good five minutes.

[Radar Chief]

Are you trying to make the point that tazing that kid wouldn't have incited others?

Perfect illustration of the no win situation that cops are in. If they allow the kid to rant on the side and incite others to violence, they didn’t diffuse the situation. If they taze the kid and get attacked by others, they incited the violence. But if’e threatens to taze the kid to get’im to shut up and/or calm down, then he’s just an azzhole.
In a situation like that, I’d have probably told’im to STFU or join the guy in the same car if’e is in such love with’im. Wouldn’t have made me any less an azzhole for it either.

[Radar Chief]

And Radar, this is just my 2 cents, but you did the right thing by stepping in against that guy who was pounding on his woman. It was the right thing to do. I realize that getting brained from behind might make you leery about doing it again, but put yourself in the woman's shoes there...

What I should’ve done was call the Po’po and let them taze Mary Jane Meth-head and Joe Toothless Meth-dealer to the ground. ;)
I’m lucky I didn’t come up with AID’s from get’n in the middle of that.

[Chiefnj]

Perfect illustration of the no win situation that cops are in. If they allow the kid to rant on the side and incite others to violence, they didn’t diffuse the situation. If they taze the kid and get attacked by others, they incited the violence. But if’e threatens to taze the kid to get’im to shut up and/or calm down, then he’s just an azzhole.
In a situation like that, I’d have probably told’im to STFU or join the guy in the same car if’e is in such love with’im. Wouldn’t have made me any less an azzhole for it either.

It was an easy win to cuff the kid and have the multiple officers drag him out quickly or hog tie him and carry him out quickly. The mulitple tazering made the situation much worse and increased the risk of injury to the police from the crowd of angry and offended students.

When the video starts it appears that the kid is already near the exit door, which would back up the claims of the victim and the eyewitnesses that he was attempting to leave.

In a year or so he won't have to worry about how he can pay his tuition as the State, on behalf of the police department, will be paying it for him, as well as the mortgage on his mansion and his 4 new cars. A jury will eat this up and make him rich.

[stevieray]

Reminds me of a guy hitting on a girl at the bar, who is warned that she has a boyfriend and ignores it, then cries foul when the boyfriend shows up and starts to beat his ass.

[Radar Chief]

It was an easy win to cuff the kid and have the multiple officers drag him out quickly or hog tie him and carry him out quickly. The mulitple tazering made the situation much worse and increased the risk of injury to the police from the crowd of angry and offended students.

Should’a, could’a, would’a. Ever tried it? Ever been in the cops shoes? Me neither and there’s a reason for that. I’d have probably less patience with the kid than they did. IMO they showed restraint by not beat’n his stupid azz ‘till he couldn’t move then stuff’im in the back of their car.

When the video starts it appears that the kid is already near the exit door, which would back up the claims of the victim and the eyewitnesses that he was attempting to leave.

All I see when the video starts is jumpy video of the cubicle the camera operator is in. You don’t see the kid at the door until a couple of minutes have passed. :shrug:

In a year or so he won't have to worry about how he can pay his tuition as the State, on behalf of the police department, will be paying it for him, as well as the mortgage on his mansion and his 4 new cars. A jury will eat this up and make him rich.

Pfft doubt it. LA County jury didn’t find the officers guilty of brutality on Rodney King. You think a jury is gonna have any more sympathy for this belligerent kid?

[StcChief]

Yup. Not following orders by the university.
Refusing to leave, having the police come.

You get to be an example to all.

[patteeu]

They said stand up or get it.

He could have said "I can't move"

Instead he talked politics or something.

They did what they said they'd do. He should have either done what they said to do or told them why he couldn't.

Fine by me.

I tend to agree with this. It's not so much that I think the cops couldn't have showed a little more restraint, it's that I don't have any sympathy for the guy who was tazed based on everything I've read (and seen) here.

[Nightwish]

Yup. Not following orders by the university.
Refusing to leave, having the police come.
If he made a scene with the security officers who first asked him to leave, and they had tazed him, you'd have a point. But they chose instead to leave, bring back the real police, and according to eyewitnesses, when they did that, the kid chose to comply with their order to leave, and was physically restrained without apparent provocation while he was attempting to do so. If all they wanted was for the kid to leave, and he was doing just that, then they were wrong for making it physical.

You get to be an example to all.
Cops are not supposed to use semi-lethal techniques to "make an example" of someone. They are supposed to use that for restraint and defense, not to make a statement.

[StcChief]

If he made a scene with the security officers who first asked him to leave, and they had tazed him, you'd have a point. But they chose instead to leave, bring back the real police, and according to eyewitnesses, when they did that, the kid chose to comply with their order to leave, and was physically restrained without apparent provocation while he was attempting to do so. If all they wanted was for the kid to leave, and he was doing just that, then they were wrong for making it physical.


Cops are not supposed to use semi-lethal techniques to "make an example" of someone. They are supposed to use that for restraint and defense, not to make a statement.

Will see how many other college kids refuse to comply with the university rules....

This road gets crossed regularly.... no one every learns from history.

[Nightwish]

Will see how many other college kids refuse to comply with the university rules....

This road gets crossed regularly.... no one every learns from history.
Well, if the university's message is that being beaten and tortured is going to be the punishment for rules infractions, we may see that line crossed less often. Will it be worth it, just to free up a seat at the computer desk?

[banyon]

Well, if the university's message is that being beaten and tortured is going to be the punishment for rules infractions, we may see that line crossed less often. Will it be worth it, just to free up a seat at the computer desk?

Maybe they should've caned the guy, that'll learn those god durned kids!

[Mr. Kotter]

If he made a scene with the security officers who first asked him to leave, and they had tazed him, you'd have a point. But they chose instead to leave, bring back the real police, and according to eyewitnesses, when they did that, the kid chose to comply with their order to leave, and was physically restrained without apparent provocation while he was attempting to do so. If all they wanted was for the kid to leave, and he was doing just that, then they were wrong for making it physical....It ceased being about him leaving, when he chose to make a scene of it....in requiring them to have to get the cops, in order to get him to comply....HE escalated the incident. He wasn't attempting to leave at that point; he knew his ass was in trouble, and then did the pussy try to leave (was trying to run from the cops....)
Well, if the university's message is that being beaten and tortured is going to be the punishment for rules infractions, we may see that line crossed less often. Will it be worth it, just to free up a seat at the computer desk?What a joke....we go from possible over-zealous use of a taser to "...tortured?" :rolleyes:

The pussification of America is nearly complete.

[TrickyNicky]

Both parties were in the wrong here. The kid probably made a scene and refused to leave before the cops arrived. I've learned one important lesson: Don't give the police an excuse. Keep your eyes down and leave quietly if ordered. You make a stink and things like that can happen.

I'm not saying the cops were justified in what they did at all, but you have to realize that some stressed out cop might be a little quick to use excessive force, especially if you are arab-american (sad, but ultimately true) because you gave him a look or mumbled something. It's an unfortunate predicament, but the alternative (this for example) is much worse than just admitting you were wrong or leaving quietly.

As far as tasering a kid six or seven times in about seven minutes is quite excessive, and I'm sure these cops (the ones identifiable) will get a couple weeks paid vacation to think about what they did. Bad cop, bad.

[beer bacon]

Both parties were in the wrong here. The kid probably made a scene and refused to leave before the cops arrived. I've learned one important lesson: Don't give the police an excuse. Keep your eyes down and leave quietly if ordered. You make a stink and things like that can happen.

I'm not saying the cops were justified in what they did at all, but you have to realize that some stressed out cop might be a little quick to use excessive force, especially if you are arab-american (sad, but ultimately true) because you gave him a look or mumbled something. It's an unfortunate predicament, but the alternative (this for example) is much worse than just admitting you were wrong or leaving quietly.

As far as tasering a kid six or seven times in about seven minutes is quite excessive, and I'm sure these cops (the ones identifiable) will get a couple weeks paid vacation to think about what they did. Bad cop, bad.

They should also give them quite a bit more training on the proper use of their tasers as well.

[redbrian]

They should also give them quite a bit more training on the proper use of their tasers as well.

I think your right, according to all the experts here this guy should have been paralyzed for over 15 min. yet at the min. and half mark and the 3 min mark he is clearly struggling with the cops.

[Nightwish]

It ceased being about him leaving, when he chose to make a scene of it....in requiring them to have to get the cops, in order to get him to comply....HE escalated the incident.
He escalated the incident with the local security. They should have done something. Once they left, the situation calmed back down.

He wasn't attempting to leave at that point;
That's security's problem. They should done something, but they didn't.

he knew his ass was in trouble, and then did the pussy try to leave (was trying to run from the cops....)
To run from the cops, the cops have to first order him to remain. They didn't. He saw them, and according to witnesses, put on his backpack and calmly walked toward the door. The mere presence of police is not construed as a stay order. He was well within his rights to walk away, as he had been ordered to do. From the way the witnesses describe it, the police didn't order him to stay, they just grabbed him without provocation. That's assault, and I'm sorry, but that badge does not give license to assault someone without provocation. He would have been well within his rights to knock the living shit out of that officer the minute he grabbed him.

What a joke....we go from possible over-zealous use of a taser to "...tortured?" :rolleyes:
I can only assume you've never experienced a taser before, and that you're unaware that over-zealous use of a taser can and does cause death, and has done so many times.

The pussification of America is nearly complete.
Yeah, how dare Americans object to the use of lethal instruments because a guy wouldn't get up from a computer! What pussies!

[dj56dt58]

Now there is an enlightened response, hope you don’t ever need any help from the police.
Cops piss me off. It's one think when they are helping people out, that is their job. Normally they are abusing their power and pulling people over for going 5 over.

[redbrian]

Yeah, how dare Americans object to the use of lethal instruments because a guy wouldn't get up from a computer! What pussies!


Oh shit now it’s a lethal weapon, you know you really should have learned something from your buddy Al, gross exaggerations greatly weaken your argument.

[Nightwish]

Oh shit now it’s a lethal weapon, you know you really should have learned something from your buddy Al, gross exaggerations greatly weaken your argument.Who is Al?

Tasers are not lethal weapons in the hands of responsible officers. In the hands of overzealous officers, they become quite lethal. There are numerous documented cases of death being caused by overzealous use of tasers. Non-lethal weapons don't kill. A taser, used overzealously and improperly is quite lethal. I'm sorry if you don't like that, but it's true.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Oh shit now it’s a lethal weapon, you know you really should have learned something from your buddy Al, gross exaggerations greatly weaken your argument.

Let me taze you 8 times in 10 minutes. Please. I want to hear you run your mouth after you get drilled like that.

[Nightwish]

Let me taze you 8 times in 10 minutes. Please. I want to hear you run your mouth after you get drilled like that.
Most of these tough-talking right-wing buffoons would be squealing like a baby, drooling like they'd swallowed some alka seltzer, after being tazed one time, let alone as many times as that kid got it.

[Ultra Peanut]

Reminds me of a guy hitting on a girl at the bar, who is warned that she has a boyfriend and ignores it, then cries foul when the boyfriend shows up and starts to beat his ass.Assault is way cool!

we go from possible over-zealous use of a taser to "...tortured?" :rolleyes:What the bloody Christ do you call electrocuting someone multiple times in a situation that doesn't even remotely call for it?

Oh shit now it’s a lethal weapon, you know you really should have learned something from your buddy Al, gross exaggerations greatly weaken your argument.

Tasers aren't intended for use as an "I don't want to deal with this jackhole" valve. They're meant as an alternative to deadly force. That doesn't make them non-lethal, just less-lethal. They're still dangerous, especially when you're using them without restraint.

He was probably being a douchebag, but the police have a responsibility to do their jobs with the utmost caution and, well, responsibility. Breaking out ridiculous force and nearly inciting a riot, all while telling people "you're next" when they question your methods is not responsible in the least.

Just because someone's wearing a badge doesn't give them the right to do whatever they want without consequence.

[redbrian]

Let me taze you 8 times in 10 minutes. Please. I want to hear you run your mouth after you get drilled like that.

My, my you’re a sadistic lil bastard aren’t you, got a set of brown boots in the closet.

[redbrian]

Who is Al?

Tasers are not lethal weapons in the hands of responsible officers. In the hands of overzealous officers, they become quite lethal. There are numerous documented cases of death being caused by overzealous use of tasers. Non-lethal weapons don't kill. A taser, used overzealously and improperly is quite lethal. I'm sorry if you don't like that, but it's true.

I knew that was going to be too subtle for you, Al would be Al Gore the king of overstatements when trying to make a point.

[Mr. Kotter]

Who is Al?

Tasers are not lethal weapons in the hands of responsible officers. In the hands of overzealous officers, they become quite lethal. There are numerous documented cases of death being caused by overzealous use of tasers. Non-lethal weapons don't kill. A taser, used overzealously and improperly is quite lethal. I'm sorry if you don't like that, but it's true.

You keep making that claim. Where are the stats? VERIFIABLE stats of deaths from tasers. With links. And it should be multiple/many--not just a couple or three freak incidents....because that's what your silly ass is suggesting.

Otherwise, you really should just STFU .

[redbrian]

You keep making that claim. Where are the stats? VERIFIABLE stats of deaths from tasers. With links. And it should be multiple/many--not just a couple or three freak incidents....because that's what your silly ass is suggesting.

Otherwise, you really should just STFU .

Here I'll help out;

Here are 16 cases of a 167 deaths following stun gun usage, only 2 of which is the stun gun even remotely attributive to the death, the other 151 are similar.

Note the common factors are heavy usage of drugs or “a state of excited delirium”

Robert Anglen
The Arizona Republic
Jan. 5, 2006 01:20 PM

1. David Flores, 37, Fairfield, Calif.

Sept. 28, 1999

A private investigator, Flores died after being shocked three times during a scuffle with police. Flores suffered a heart attack. Toxicology results indicate Flores died from agitated delirium due to acute cocaine and methamphetamine intoxication.

2. Enrique Juarez Ochoa, 34, Bakersfield, Calif.

May 14, 2000

Police responded to a call from Ochoa's mother, who said her son was acting strangely. Police shocked and handcuffed Ochoa and placed him face down on the ground for 15-20 minutes. Officers transported him to a medical center for evaluation. About 15 minutes later, officers noticed that he had stopped moving. Autopsy report lists cause of death as disseminated intravascular coagulation due to blunt impact trauma while in a hyper-excitable state and cocaine toxicity.

3. Mark Burkett, 18, Gainesville, Fla.

June 17, 2001

Burkett, who suffered from paranoid schizophrenia, collapsed after struggling with officers at a county jail. Burkett was shocked with a Taser and became unresponsive. He died four days after being placed on life support. Autopsy report lists cause of death as acute exhaustive mania, meaning he worked himself into a frenzy that caused him to suffer a cardiac arrest Toxicology exam revealed no traces of cocaine, methamphetamine or steroids. Coroner notes that mania in psychiatric patients can lead to death. Coroner reports family history of paranoid schizophrenia.

4. Hannah Rogers-Grippi, 6-month-old fetus, Chula Vista, Calif.

Dec. 15, 2001

Police shocked a 36-year-old pregnant woman in the back for refusing to follow orders. At the hospital, fetal heart sounds were heard during the examination. Two days later, an exam revealed that the fetus had died. Autopsy report lists cause of death as intrauterine fetal demise. Maternal methamphetamine use was a contributing factor. The coroner said It was difficult to make a causative link between the Taser event and the intrauterine fetal death.

5. Marvin Hendrix, 27, Hamilton, Ohio

Dec. 17, 2001

Hendrix was fighting with paramedics at his house. A police officer shocked him twice. Two minutes after being shocked, he lost consciousness. An autopsy revealed Hendrix swallowed a bag of crack cocaine about seven hours before he died. The cause of death was cocaine toxicity. The medical examiner reported "the exact role of Taser in this individual's demise is unknown."

6. Steven Vasquez, 40, Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

Dec. 21, 2001

Vasquez was shocked during an altercation with police who were attempting to escort him out of a bar. A medical examiner said he died four days later as a result of drug toxicity, due to a mixture of pain medication. Coroner says Taser shocks were not a contributing factor in the death.

7. Vincent Delostia, 31, Hollywood, Fla.

Jan. 27, 2002

Delostia was running around in traffic then ran into the lobby of a hotel where he refused to leave. When police arrived, he lay down and kicked at officers. He was shocked, rolled onto his stomach and handcuffs were placed around his arms and legs. After 30 seconds of restraint, he stopped breathing. The coroner said the cause of death was cocaine toxicity and notes a history of bipolar disorder. Says Delostia exhibited multiple signs of excited delirium.

8. Anthony Spencer, 35, Philadelphia

Feb. 12, 2002

Police, responding to a domestic disturbance, used pepper spray and Tasers to subdue Spencer, who was brandishing a knife. He died in an ambulance en route to the hospital. City officials said tests reportedly found that the death was due to cocaine intoxication and that shocks from a Taser were not a contributing factor.

9. Henry Canady, 46, Hilliard, Fla.

March 27, 2002

Canady was shocked after he fled deputies who were attempting to arrest him on drug charges. The coroner said the cause of death was cocaine toxicity and artery disease. The stress of his struggle with police might have contributed to his death.

10. Richard Baralla, 36, Pueblo, Colo.

May 17, 2002

Police arrested Baralla after he was seen walking down a street exhibiting strange behavior. Officers sprayed him with chemical spray, shocked him with Taser and handcuffed his legs and arms behind his back. During the struggle he stopped breathing. Autopsy report says death was caused by cardiac arrest during a state of excited delirium that necessitated restraint.

11. Eddie Alvarado, 32, Los Angeles

June 10, 2002

Alvarado died after being shot five times with a Taser by Los Angeles police officers in 2002. He was fighting with officers after having a seizure. The coroner said he died from a mixture of methamphetamine and cocaine while being restrained. The coroner said the stun gun could not be ruled out as a cause of death and indicated a relationship between the Taser and Alvarado's heart attack.

12. Clever Craig, 46, Mobile, Ala.

June 28, 2002

Relatives called 911 because Craig was acting strangely. Police found the 6-foot, 200-pound Craig holding a barbell. When he refused to drop it, officers shocked him twice in about 40 seconds. According to police, Craig struggled for five minutes. The autopsy report says Craig died of a heart attack during an episode of delirium "following electrical shock from Taser while resisting arrest."

13. Jason Nichols, 21, Oklahoma City, Okla.

June 15, 2002

Nichols was involved in a family fight. He struggled with police officers who shocked him with a Taser. He was taken to a hospital with various wounds from the fight and died 13 minutes later. The Cause of death was listed as head injuries. The coroner said it was extremely unlikely that the Taser played a part in the death. Drug tests were negative for all but a slight trace of marijuana.

14. Fermin Rincon, 24, Fontana, Calif.

June 27, 2002

Died after a struggle with police at a business complex. Officers reportedly shocked Rincon three times and placed him in a chokehold in order to subdue him. A coroner reported that Rincon died because of prolonged methamphetamine abuse. He suffered a cardiac arrest. An autopsy report said the cause of Rincon’s death was acute cardiac arrhythmia due to methamphetamine use.

15. Unknown male, 39, Phoenix

June 2002

An unidentified man found bleeding in the driveway of a home near 80th Avenue and Osborn Road became combative with police officers responding to a domestic violence call. Police shocked the man and put him in handcuffs. He went into cardiac arrest and died at Maryvale hospital. According to Taser International, the man had a cardiac arrest due to a drug overdose.

16. Johnney Lozoya, age unknown, Gardena, Calif.

July 19, 2002

Lozoya was seen running on the roof of a convalescent home. A few minutes later, police received reports that he was jumping on a parked car. Officers found Lozoya unconscious in the street and he was taken to a hospital, where he awoke and became combative. An officer shocked him. Several minutes later he died. An autopsy report shows Lozoya died of hypoxic encephalopathy, cardiac arrest and cocaine intoxication. But the medical examiner reported, "one cannot exclude the Taser causing the above damage to the tissues, specifically, the heart."

[Nightwish]

I knew that was going to be too subtle for you, Al would be Al Gore the king of overstatements when trying to make a point.
A) I'm curious what makes you believe I'm an Al Gore fan, since I voted for Bush in 2000.

B? I'm curious what overstatements you're referring to.

[Mr. Kotter]

Assault is way cool!

What the bloody Christ do you call electrocuting someone multiple times in a situation that doesn't even remotely call for it?

Tasers aren't intended for use as an "I don't want to deal with this jackhole" valve. They're meant as an alternative to deadly force. That doesn't make them non-lethal, just less-lethal. They're still dangerous, especially when you're using them without restraint.

He was probably being a douchebag, but the police have a responsibility to do their jobs with the utmost caution and, well, responsibility. Breaking out ridiculous force and nearly inciting a riot, all while telling people "you're next" when they question your methods is not responsible in the least.

Just because someone's wearing a badge doesn't give them the right to do whatever they want without consequence.

Links and statistics to VERIFIABLE and undisputed multiple/many taser-related deaths. Otherwise, your arguments are folly.

Should the cops have exercised more restraint? Sure. I've already said that.

But you clowns are making it sound as if the police were shooting this guy multiple times with a 9 mm. He was tasered. Tasers can be calibrated to deliver different amounts of voltage....

They should have maxed the voltage out, and zapped him in the nuts if you ask me.

[Nightwish]

You keep making that claim. Where are the stats? VERIFIABLE stats of deaths from tasers. With links. And it should be multiple/many--not just a couple or three freak incidents....because that's what your silly ass is suggesting.

Otherwise, you really should just STFU .
Now it's stfu, eh? You really don't like having your rhetorical bullshit challenged, do you?

[redbrian]

A) I'm curious what makes you believe I'm an Al Gore fan, since I voted for Bush in 2000.

B? I'm curious what overstatements you're referring to.



Never stated you were an Al Gore fan just pointing out the failed practice of overstatements, weakening your arguments.

One of many of your overstatements is that the taser is a lethal weapon, if you read the 167 autopsies which have a commonality of a taser you will note that the taser did not cause the deaths.

In only very rare cases can it even be considered a contributing factor.

[DenverChief]

For my 2 cents, I'm leery of what seems to be a predilection by police to use tasers in situations where it seems like some raw muscle would do the job. I would think tasers should be used to subdue the violent who are a legitimate threat to the saftey of the responding officers, not to tell people to "move along".
Tazers are effective in preventing injury to both officer and offender...money saved on hospital trips for both officers and offenders....when you "muscle" someone you risk hurting yourself and causing the deparment to pay for any injury you incur and lost manpower ...

[DenverChief]

Man am I sorry I missed this thread

[DenverChief]

Tasers can be calibrated to deliver different amounts of voltage....




False t is not adjustable

[Mr. Kotter]

False it only has about .5 volts but around 25 watts and it is not adjustable

Maybe not in Colorado. In SD, they are using ones that are calibrated and adjustable. Seriously. :shrug:

[Nightwish]

Never stated you were an Al Gore fan just pointing out the failed practice of overstatements, weakening your arguments.

One of many of your overstatements is that the taser is a lethal weapon, if you read the 167 autopsies which have a commonality of a taser you will note that the taser did not cause the deaths.

In only very rare cases can it even be considered a contributing factor.Most gunshot victims don't die from the bullet, they die from physiological conditions brought about by the bullet. When a taser is abused, it's a lethal weapon.

[DenverChief]

Maybe not in Colorado. In SD, they are using ones that are calibrated and adjustable. Seriously. :shrug:


sorry I got that wrong (voltage/wattage) if they are adjustable then they are not the taser


www.taser.com

http://www.taser.com/law/video/high/history_512k.mov

[DenverChief]

sorry I got that wrong (voltage/wattage) if they are adjustable then they are not the taser


www.taser.com

http://www.taser.com/law/video/high/history_512k.mov


50,000 volts

25 watts

.5 amps

[Nightwish]

One of many of your overstatements is that the taser is a lethal weapon, if you read the 167 autopsies which have a commonality of a taser you will note that the taser did not cause the deaths.
I wasn't asking which of my statements you think (incorrectly) are overstatements. You said Al Gore was the king of overstatements. I want to know what statements of his you think are overstatements. I'm wondering if you are going to cite the much-abused myth that he claimed to have invented the internet.

[Mr. Kotter]

Now it's stfu, eh? You really don't like having your rhetorical bullshit challenged, do you?

I'm not impressed by the ACLU and Defense attorney/criminal rights advocates talking points...you've cited. They aren't particularly objective....

:rolleyes:

[Mr. Kotter]

...
One of many of your overstatements is that the taser is a lethal weapon, if you read the 167 autopsies which have a commonality of a taser you will note that the taser did not cause the deaths.

In only very rare cases can it even be considered a contributing factor.

Imagine that: he cites deaths "caused by" Tasers.....in a very liberal, and inaccurate way..... :rolleyes:

[Mr. Kotter]

sorry I got that wrong (voltage/wattage) if they are adjustable then they are not the taser


www.taser.com (http://www.taser.com)

http://www.taser.com/law/video/high/history_512k.mov
Cool. Thanks for the clarification.

They must be using some "off-brand" that is adjustable here....

[redbrian]

I wasn't asking which of my statements you think (incorrectly) are overstatements. You said Al Gore was the king of overstatements. I want to know what statements of his you think are overstatements. I'm wondering if you are going to cite the much-abused myth that he claimed to have invented the internet.


Please don’t be such a simpleton, the man overstates every time he opens his mouth.

How about the diatribe about his mother’s medication during one of his many infamous debates.

[DenverChief]

http://www.taser.com/law/video/high/x26_512k.mov

[redbrian]

Most gunshot victims don't die from the bullet, they die from physiological conditions brought about by the bullet. When a taser is abused, it's a lethal weapon.

Most deaths from beign shot is caused by hydraulic shock, and organ damage.

Why don’t you read the 167 deaths report and tell me where the taser was the only cause of death and not a minor contributing factor.

[DenverChief]

Imagine that: he cites deaths "caused by" Tasers.....in a very liberal, and inaccurate way..... :rolleyes:

yea no taser has ever been faulted in the death of anyone it used to be called "sudden custody death" when officers would "muscle" someone to the ground and handcuff them they would die...the problem no "civilian" takes into account is that when you go from free fighting anf a 170 BPM heart rate to restricted movement and still have the 170 BPM heartrate it is going to have a serious impact on your health especially when drugs are involved....the moral to the story? DON'T FIGHT THE POLICE

[Mr. Kotter]

...Why don’t you read the 167 deaths report and tell me where the taser was the only cause of death and not a minor contributing factor.
Because that would destroy the value of his criminal advocacy propanda bullshit....

[Mr. Kotter]

yea no taser has ever been faulted in the death of anyone it used to be called "sudden custody death" when officers would "muscle" someone to the ground and handcuff them they would die...the problem no "civilian" takes into account is that when you go from free fighting anf a 170 BPM heart rate to restricted movement and still have the 170 BPM heartrate it is going to have a serious impact on your health especially when drugs are involved....the moral to the story? DON'T FIGHT THE POLICE (my emphasis, added)Absolutely. :clap:

If I had it my way, they'd get three warnings, and a shot fired in the air....and as long as there were witnesses and videotape running, anyone fleeing the police become fair game for however they decide to apprehend you. And I mean, whatever.

Good thing for thugs, I'm not in charge.

[DenverChief]

Absolutely. :clap:

If I had it my way, they'd get three warnings, and a shot fired in the air....and as long as there were witnesses and videotape running, anyone fleeing the police become fair game for however they decide to apprehend you. And I mean, whatever.

Good thing for thugs, I'm not in charge.The rule of law enforcement is:
1. You ask them
2. You tell them
3. You make them

[Nightwish]

Please don’t be such a simpleton, the man overstates every time he opens his mouth.

Then it shouldn't be hard for you to put your money where your mouth is.

[Nightwish]

Why don’t you read the 167 deaths report and tell me where the taser was the only cause of death and not a minor contributing factor.
Why don't you list those deaths among those 167 that probably would have still occurred at that same moment if the person hadn't been tasered.

[Nightwish]

Because that would destroy the value of his criminal advocacy propanda bullshit....According to the witnesses, the kid was leaving. The police committed a criminal act when they physically grabbed (assault) the kid without provocation. You're advocating that. Tell me again who is engaging in criminal advocacy. Peddle your bullshit elsewhere.

[redbrian]

Why don't you list those deaths among those 167 that probably would have still occurred at that same moment if the person hadn't been tasered.

Here I'll help you out since your having a hard time keeping up;

http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special43/articles/1224taserlist24-ON.html

[Nightwish]

Here I'll help you out since your having a hard time keeping up;

http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special43/articles/1224taserlist24-ON.html
I didn't ask you for a list of the deaths. I asked you for a list of which ones would have occurred at the time they occurred even without being tased. Please do so.

[redbrian]

I didn't ask you for a list of the deaths. I asked you for a list of which ones would have occurred at the time they occurred even without being tased. Please do so.

ROFL

You really are an obtuse buffoon aren’t you, how about this one from the report I had already posted 16 but I’ll post one more.

Feb. 12, 2002

Police, responding to a domestic disturbance, used pepper spray and Tasers to subdue Spencer, who was brandishing a knife. He died in an ambulance en route to the hospital. City officials said tests reportedly found that the death was due to cocaine intoxication and that shocks from a Taser were not a contributing factor.

There are more if you follow the link and actually read the reports.

[Nightwish]

ROFL

You really are an obtuse buffoon aren’t you, how about this one from the report I had already posted 16 but I’ll post one more.

Feb. 12, 2002

Police, responding to a domestic disturbance, used pepper spray and Tasers to subdue Spencer, who was brandishing a knife. He died in an ambulance en route to the hospital. City officials said tests reportedly found that the death was due to cocaine intoxication and that shocks from a Taser were not a contributing factor.

There are more if you follow the link and actually read the reports.Good, that's one. You only have 166 more to go through. Better get busy. I'm not doing your homework for you. You're the one who made the claim that the tasers didn't contribute to most of those deaths, it's your job now to back it up.

[Mr. Kotter]

According to the witnesses, the kid was leaving. The police committed a criminal act when they physically grabbed (assault) the kid without provocation. You're advocating that. Tell me again who is engaging in criminal advocacy...Link to article CHARGING the police with any criminal charges here??? :hmmm:

Otherwise, it is YOU that is FOS....

[Nightwish]

Link to article CHARGING the police with any criminal charges here??? :hmmm:
It's still being investigated, dipshit. If there are going to be criminal charges (and there very well may), they'll come after the investigation.

[Mr. Kotter]

It's still being investigated, dipshit. If there are going to be criminal charges (and there very well may), they'll come after the investigation.

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you... :spock:






ROFLROFLROFL

[Nightwish]

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you... :spock:
For your sake, I hope there aren't any criminal charges. 'Cuz you're gonna look dumb as f*ck if there are.

[redbrian]

Good, that's one. You only have 166 more to go through. Better get busy. I'm not doing your homework for you. You're the one who made the claim that the tasers didn't contribute to most of those deaths, it's your job now to back it up.

http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special43/articles/1224taserlist24-ON.html

Here you go ace just click on the above link (this is about the 3rd time I've posted this), it's like leading a horse to water with you isn't it.

[Mr. Kotter]

Good, that's one. You only have 166 more to go through. Better get busy. I'm not doing your homework for you. You're the one who made the claim that the tasers didn't contribute to most of those deaths, it's your job now to back it up.
You made the claim that the TAZER caused each and every one of those deaths....and you have yet to prove a single one.

It's you that should get to work, and back up your bullshit...criminal advocacy/ACLU/criminal rights advocacy bullshit. :rolleyes:

[Mr. Kotter]

http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special43/articles/1224taserlist24-ON.html

Here you go ace just click on the above link (this is about the 3rd time I've posted this), it's like leading a horse to water with you isn't it.

He'd prefer to remain ignorant in his bliss....

[Nightwish]

Here I'll help you out since your having a hard time keeping up;

http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special43/articles/1224taserlist24-ON.html
Incidentally, according to that article, only 50 of the autopsy reports have been obtained, and of those, it appears that almost half of them ruled that the taser was the cause or a contributing factor. So much for your theory.

[redbrian]

He'd prefer to remain ignorant in his bliss....

I tell you what he must be related too mememe.

[Mr. Kotter]

... or a contributing factor. ...

ROFLROFLROFL

[redbrian]

Incidentally, according to that article, only 50 of the autopsy reports have been obtained, and of those, it appears that almost half of them ruled that the taser was the cause or a contributing factor. So much for your theory.

Read past the 1st paragraph and try to quote it right, in none of them was the taser the cause, in only a few was it even a contributing factor.

Or hey find one where it was the sole cause.

[Nightwish]

You made the claim that the TAZER caused each and every one of those deaths....
Really? Where did I say that? The only thing I remember saying was that there are numerous documented cases of death being caused by a taser. Are you aware of me saying something more than that? If so, please cut and paste.

[Mr. Kotter]

For your sake, I hope there aren't any criminal charges. 'Cuz you're gonna look dumb as f*ck if there are.

No. A CONVICTION might.

Otherwise, it's you that is the fool.

[redbrian]

Really? Where did I say that? The only thing I remember saying was that there are numerous documented cases of death being caused by a taser. Are you aware of me saying something more than that? If so, please cut and paste.

Post them.

[Mr. Kotter]

Really? Where did I say that? The only thing I remember saying was that there are numerous documented cases of death being caused by a taser. Are you aware of me saying something more than that? If so, please cut and paste.

You are trying to claim that 167 deaths are attributable to Tazers....to claim otherwise, now, exposes your folly for what it is:

ACLU/Criminal Advocacy bullshit propaganda, that remains uncorroborated and unsubstantiated.....

[Mr. Kotter]

Post them.

Give it up.

He's too big a puss to back up what he's trying to snow us with...

[redbrian]

Give it up.

He's too big a puss to back up what he's trying to snow us with...

Yea I know it's like debating a 6 year old, hell thats even an insult to my 1st grader.

[Nightwish]

Read past the 1st paragraph and try to quote it right,How's this: In 27 cases, medical examiners said Tasers were a cause, a contributing factor or could not be ruled out in someone's death. In 35 cases, coroners and other officials reported the stun gun was not a factor.

16% of the time, the taser was found to have contributed to the death.
21% of the time, it was ruled out.
63% of the time, no comment was made as to whether it contributed or not, though the similarity between many of those and some of the cases where it was ruled to be a factor suggest that it could easily have been a factor in several of those. All in all, of those 167 deaths, the number of deaths in which it was a contributing factor is probably higher than the number in which it wasn't.
in none of them was the taser the cause, in only a few was it even a contributing factor.Hmm, that's funny, because the part I quoted above said that some of those 27 found that it was a cause. Are you reading the same article you linked to? In fact, I just randomly scrolled down the article, and the first one I stopped on, #99, ruled that it was enough of a contributor to label it homicide.

In most of those cases, the medical examiners made no statement as to whether or not the taser was a contributing factor. In some of the cases where the cause of death was "excited delirium," it was also noted that the taser may have contributed to elevating that delirium to lethal levels. It is not unreasonable to assume that it may have been a similar exacerbator in several of the other drug/delirium deaths in which the relationship between taser and delirium was not addressed (which would appear to account for a majority of the cases).Or hey find one where it was the sole cause.I never said it was the sole cause. In fact, with my bullet comment, I implied that it was a significant contributor in several cases, where it led to physiological conditions (such as elevated excitability, especially when it was already dangerously high from drug use or mental defect) which led to death.

[Nightwish]

No. A CONVICTION might.
Whatever.

[Mr. Kotter]

Whatever.

That's about right, coming from you....ROFL

[Nightwish]

You are trying to claim that 167 deaths are attributable to Tazers....
I'll say again - cut and paste. I never quoted a number. I never said 167 deaths were caused by tasers. I never said all of those deaths someone else mentioned were caused by tasers. I said there are "numerous" documented cases where the use of tasers led to death. Grab a dictionary, look up "numerous." You'll find it is not a synonym for "all." It's not even a synonym for "most." In that article that redbrian mistakenly hoped would prove his argument, it was concluded by the medical examiners that the tasers did contribute to the deaths in 16% of them (and made no findings one way or the other in 67% of them), only ruling it out in 21% of them. I'd say that qualifies as "numerous."

[Mr. Kotter]

NW.....from your own posting:

...a contributing factor or could not be ruled out in someone's death.

Yep, that firmly establishes the BS case you are trying to make.... :rolleyes:


I'll say again - cut and paste. I never quoted a number. I never said 167 deaths were caused by tasers. I never said all of those deaths someone else mentioned were caused by tasers. I said there are "numerous" documented cases where the use of tasers led to death. Grab a dictionary, look up "numerous." You'll find it is not a synonym for "all." It's not even a synonym for "most." In that article that redbrian mistakenly hoped would prove his argument, it was concluded by the medical examiners that the tasers did contribute to the deaths in 16% of them (and made no findings one way or the other in 67% of them), only ruling it out in 21% of them. I'd say that qualifies as "numerous."
Then, why did you cite the article the way you did? Duh....:rolleyes:


In other words, your use of that "article" was inappropriate to the question you were addressing....in other words, bogus.

Thanks for the clarification. ROFL

[Nightwish]

Post them.
Don't need to, you already did. There are several right there in your link, which I'm guessing you didn't read through all those closely.

[redbrian]

I'll say again - cut and paste. I never quoted a number. I never said 167 deaths were caused by tasers. I never said all of those deaths someone else mentioned were caused by tasers. I said there are "numerous" documented cases where the use of tasers led to death. Grab a dictionary, look up "numerous." You'll find it is not a synonym for "all." It's not even a synonym for "most." In that article that redbrian mistakenly hoped would prove his argument, it was concluded by the medical examiners that the tasers did contribute to the deaths in 16% of them (and made no findings one way or the other in 67% of them), only ruling it out in 21% of them. I'd say that qualifies as "numerous."

And yet you cannot post 1 case, were the taser was the cause or major cause of death.

[Nightwish]

Then, why did you cite the article the way you did? Duh....:rolleyes:
Cite what article? I didn't post the article, redbrian did. He asked me to look through it for examples of deaths among those 167 that he brought up where the taser was found to have been a contributing factor.

In other words, your use of that "article" was inappropriate to the question you were addressing....in other words, bogus.
That made absolutely zero sense. Are you drinking, or something?

[redbrian]

Cite what article? I didn't post the article, redbrian did. He asked me to look through it for examples of deaths among those 167 that he brought up where the taser was found to have been a contributing factor.


That made absolutely zero sense. Are you drinking, or something?

Let's get it right you are to come up with 1 case where the taser was the cause, not a contributing factor but the cause of death.

[Mr. Kotter]

NW.....from your own posting: ...a contributing factor or could not be ruled out in someone's death. Yep, that firmly establishes the BS case you are trying to make.... :rolleyes:
...

That made absolutely zero sense. Are you drinking, or something?Read it again, simpleton. :rolleyes:

FWIW, not tonight....thank you.

[Nightwish]

And yet you cannot post 1 case, were the taser was the cause or major cause of death.
Here ya go, dumbf*ck. Are you happy?

99. Jeffrey Turner, 41, Lucas County, Ohio

Jan. 31, 2005

Turner was loitering outside of a Toledo museum when Toledo Police officers approach