How does everyone here feel about illegal immigration?

[caffeinated_virus]

Being that I live in San Diego, I see it daily.

For me, I am against illegal immigration and strongly feel it needs to be fixed immediately. Coupled that with the fact that I am so tired of our political officials trying to stuff amnesty down our throats, how does everyone here feel about it?

It is a really hot topic of late and only seems to be growing. The thing I don't get is that over 70% of Americans want something done to stop illegal immigration and feel it is a problem. At the same time, over 65% of people do NOT want amnesty passed.

What's everyone here's take?

For those who feel strongly against illegal immigration, is anyone doing something to stop it? I'm doing what I can and hope more will join.

cheers

[noa]

The thought of one more Canadian sneaking his way into our country absolutely sickens me

[Sully]

The thought of one more Canadian sneaking his way into our country absolutely sickens me


Me too.
They absolutely refuse to pronounce "ou" correctly.

... and they call a stocking cap a toup. A toup? WTF???

[caffeinated_virus]

The thought of one more Canadian sneaking his way into our country absolutely sickens me

I admit, I get a kick out of some of the responses on this board. Cracks me up. :)


EDIT: All jokes aside, just wanted to get a feel for how others feel about this issue.

[SBK]

I can't wait for amnesty to go through. I'm going to skip out on my taxes for a few years and apply for amnesty as well.

[noa]

In all seriousness, it is a very troubling issue. The number of illegal aliens is staggering and unprecedented. I don't like the idea of a border fence, but it might get to that point. You live in San Diego, Mr. Caffeinated Virus, so I'm interested in how well you think the border fence works there.
One way to crack down would be to go after businesses that employ illegal aliens, but that's tough because it means a lot of small businesses (or large ones like Wal Mart even) could get in trouble, which might cause a hiccup in our economy. I also don't like illegal aliens getting entitlements from our gov't, and I'm especially disturbed by illegals who steal our citizens' identities. Having said that, I have a hard time punishing the children of illegal immigrants who didn't choose to break the law by being here, so I'm not sure how I feel about entitlements for children who were brought here illegally by their parents.
I think a vast majority of Americans want this issue addressed but there's a lot of confusion as to how.

[caffeinated_virus]

In all seriousness, it is a very troubling issue. The number of illegal aliens is staggering and unprecedented. I don't like the idea of a border fence, but it might get to that point. You live in San Diego, Mr. Caffeinated Virus, so I'm interested in how well you think the border fence works there.
One way to crack down would be to go after businesses that employ illegal aliens, but that's tough because it means a lot of small businesses (or large ones like Wal Mart even) could get in trouble, which might cause a hiccup in our economy. I also don't like illegal aliens getting entitlements from our gov't, and I'm especially disturbed by illegals who steal our citizens' identities. Having said that, I have a hard time punishing the children of illegal immigrants who didn't choose to break the law by being here, so I'm not sure how I feel about entitlements for children who were brought here illegally by their parents.
I think a vast majority of Americans want this issue addressed but there's a lot of confusion as to how.

The overall feeling is pretty mutual from a lot of people I talk to. There is without question, a major problem with our system. There should be no way illegal immigrants are getting taken care of better than legal American citizens. Medical, financial, education...the list goes on.

I am true Patriot for our country. My family has served in the military since the late 1800's and have served in every major conflict since WWI. There is a lot of patriotism here. I just get extremely upset when I see our country changing and the possibility of us losing our identity.

I will fight this battle non-stop. If anyone is curious how to help, just PM me. I'd be more than happy to talk.

Cheers

[bunnytrdr]

I admit, I get a kick out of some of the responses on this board. Cracks me up. :)


EDIT: All jokes aside, just wanted to get a feel for how others feel about this issue.Feelings, nothing more that feelings.

[Jenson71]

Hey caffeinated_virus,

My feelings towards illegal immigration are that it is illegal. Laws should be followed to enter our country safely and with there being knowledge of it by the government who runs the country. That's ideal. I have a stong opinion that the fault in the current problem with illegal immigration lies in the hands of our government leaders. Illegal immigrants come to America TO HAVE A JOB. Not because of any other reason. Many of them risk a lot to get this job, and earn a living, and better themselves and their families, and for this, I can not blame them.

Many illegal immigrants have jobs, so SOMEBODY(S) hires them. And those employers need to be fined. IT IS BREAKING A LAW TO HIRE AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT. There have been sanctions and acts against hiring illegals (Reagan - 1986). It takes a small amount of time to check if someone is able to work. But if you're an employer, and you can hire this worker for one dollar, two dollars, or ten dollars less than you can pay your average American worker, and you can picture that larger sum in your account, and bigger Christmas gifts come that time, you might tend to hire this illegal, because afterall (and this is where the true fault lies in) YOU'RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO GET IN TROUBLE FOR IT.

The government has rarely followed through with these sanctions. The stats are available at any university library, or probably online. More illegal immigrants are getting jobs (about 1400 illegals come into the U.S. every day), but the homeland security income from fines from these companies hiring them has gotten smaller each year! Fines are going down (in 1992, there were over 1000 fines. In 2002, there were 13 fines!) The government parties have turned their back on the root of the immigration problem. Says Representative Tom Tancredo: "The democrats generally see immigration (legal and illegal) as a massive source of voters. The Republican party sees them as cheap labor." He declares that the U.S. can easily secure the border, they just don't want to. This doesn't surprise me at all.

Okay, so about the wall. It's more about protection and security than stopping immigration. No one wants to stop immigration. Not American citizens (according to polls) and not anyone in Congress. Well, Congress and the president pass legislation to create a border wall. The wall is 700 miles (the border down there is almost 2000). Experts have estimated it will cost at least $2.2 billion to make. This wall is a mistake, in my opinion. It's disgusting and needs to be stopped. America is a little better than to revert back to the ways of China two hundred years before Christ to deal with their problems. How to deal with it? Not by a symbol of isolation and barbarianism. It makes sense that once we attack the Law breaking businesses, the group of people crossing the border will dewindle drastically, and really, the people that are going to be crossing it will be drug dealers, terrorists and other bad guys.

That's the problem, the way I see it. There is a great article published by CQ in May this summer discussing if illegal immigration helps or hurts the economy and has a lot of information in it. Another one that's a little more statisical was in the latest edition of Foreign Affairs journal.

[listopencil]

1) Eliminate access to social programs by non-citizens, with the exception of public schooling for minors and "English as a second language" classes for adults.

2) Grant Resident Legal Alien status to anyone who can provide proof of employment, proof including payment of income tax. Use the income tax to fund schooling.

3) A child born of a Legal Resident Alien retains the nationality of its parents. There is another solution for children of immigrants but it is harsh and I doubt that anyone would abide by it.


We need immigrants who are here to become part of "The American Dream". They should be welcome. We do not need more people dependant on the socialistic tendencies of our government.

[listopencil]

I
One way to crack down would be to go after businesses that employ illegal aliens, but that's tough because it means a lot of small businesses (or large ones like Wal Mart even) could get in trouble, which might cause a hiccup in our economy.


Here we go again. Wal-Mart uses the standard I-9 form that every other business is supposed to use. I work for a Wal-Mart warehouse and they regularly keep them updated. There is no giant illegal immigrant population at Wal-Mart. There wouldn't be a "hiccup". The government already goes after Wal-Mart-constantly.

You are probably thinking of the third-party cleaning service that got busted a while ago that had a contract with some Wal-Mart stores. The only reason that story even broke was because the cleaning service had a contract with Wal-Mart and someone accused a Wal-Mart higher up of knowing about it. Lost in the shuffle was that the particular business was completely at fault in the situation.

[noa]

Here we go again. Wal-Mart uses the standard I-9 form that every other business is supposed to use. I work for a Wal-Mart warehouse and they regularly keep them updated. There is no giant illegal immigrant population at Wal-Mart. There wouldn't be a "hiccup". The government already goes after Wal-Mart-constantly.

You are probably thinking of the third-party cleaning service that got busted a while ago that had a contract with some Wal-Mart stores. The only reason that story even broke was because the cleaning service had a contract with Wal-Mart and someone accused a Wal-Mart higher up of knowing about it. Lost in the shuffle was that the particular business was completely at fault in the situation.


All right then. I stand corrected. If Wal Mart really doesn't employ illegal immigrants, that's great.

[Demonpenz]

i like illegals keep em coming in and they keep my prices low on goods that i love

[Nightwish]

What's everyone here's take?
No strong opinion one way or the other.

[listopencil]

All right then. I stand corrected. If Wal Mart really doesn't employ illegal immigrants, that's great.


I know it's hard to tell sometimes because of the stuff that gets reported. Wal-Mart is Big Business. It has deep pockets and a huge presence across the country. They make for an easy target.

[Nightwish]

Here we go again. Wal-Mart uses the standard I-9 form that every other business is supposed to use. I work for a Wal-Mart warehouse and they regularly keep them updated. There is no giant illegal immigrant population at Wal-Mart. There wouldn't be a "hiccup". The government already goes after Wal-Mart-constantly.

The Wal-Mart controversy isn't with the company employing illegal immigrants, it's with them allegedly strongarming suppliers into giving them impractically low terms, which in turn forces some of those suppliers to outsource their production to countries which employ sweatshops and the like, meaning that Wal-Mart is at least tacitly endorsing inhumane working conditions in the name of giving you lower prices ... if those allegations are true.

[listopencil]

The Wal-Mart controversy isn't with the company employing illegal immigrants, it's with them allegedly strongarming suppliers into giving them impractically low terms, which in turn forces some of those suppliers to outsource their production to countries which employ sweatshops and the like, meaning that Wal-Mart is at least tacitly endorsing inhumane working conditions in the name of giving you lower prices ... if those allegations are true.


Wal-Mart isn't forcing suppliers to do anything. Lay the blame where it belongs.

[Nightwish]

Wal-Mart isn't forcing suppliers to do anything. Lay the blame where it belongs.
I'm not saying they are. I'm saying that was the controversy as it was reported a few months ago. Whether the allegations are true or not remains to be seen. I'm not going to buy that Wal-Mart is doing that just because some protestors, bloggers and ex-employees said they are. And I'm not going to buy that they're not, just because Wal-Mart executives and some current employees say they're not. Last I heard (and admittedly, I haven't paid attention to this story for a few months), it was still being investigated.

[patteeu]

The Wal-Mart controversy isn't with the company employing illegal immigrants, it's with them allegedly strongarming suppliers into giving them impractically low terms, which in turn forces some of those suppliers to outsource their production to countries which employ sweatshops and the like, meaning that Wal-Mart is at least tacitly endorsing inhumane working conditions in the name of giving you lower prices ... if those allegations are true.

:rolleyes: I'm not saying that you are in this group, but it would be interesting to see how many people who criticize Walmart on this basis also support reshaping our health care industry in the image of medicare.

[StcChief]

I'm not saying they are. I'm saying that was the controversy as it was reported a few months ago. Whether the allegations are true or not remains to be seen. I'm not going to buy that Wal-Mart is doing that just because some protestors, bloggers and ex-employees said they are. And I'm not going to buy that they're not, just because Wal-Mart executives and some current employees say they're not. Last I heard (and admittedly, I haven't paid attention to this story for a few months), it was still being investigated.

Their arm twisting of suppliers is legendary.

Also One of the WORST I.T. shops to work in....

[Iowanian]

I'm all for it. I think our country should be over run by even more illegals. they're great.

I love providing health care, education, paying for 2nd language teachers in the school system and leaving the invoice for tax paying citizens.

[Nightwish]

:rolleyes: I'm not saying that you are in this group, but it would be interesting to see how many people who criticize Walmart on this basis also support reshaping our health care industry in the image of medicare.
I don't know. Many of the people who are criticizing Wal-Mart in this regard tend to be more supportive of small local businesses and critical of major chains such as Wal-Mart, K-Mart and Target, who they see as detrimental to the survival of the small retailer, and are using this particular controversy for leverage. It's usually more of a Libertarian rant than a left-wing rant. But I'm sure there are plenty of left-wingers who are also critical of Wal-Mart on a more purely ideological basis, where they believe the allegations are true.

[banyon]

I'm pretty far right on this issue.

Pro-Border Wall (as long as it is an actual wall)

Pro-Stiff Employer Penalties

Pro-Deportation of Illegals

Anti-Amnesty

[patteeu]

I don't know. Many of the people who are criticizing Wal-Mart in this regard tend to be more supportive of small local businesses and critical of major chains such as Wal-Mart, K-Mart and Target, who they see as detrimental to the survival of the small retailer, and are using this particular controversy for leverage. It's usually more of a Libertarian rant than a left-wing rant. But I'm sure there are plenty of left-wingers who are also critical of Wal-Mart on a more purely ideological basis, where they believe the allegations are true.

Please. Anti-Walmartism is predominantly a labor union and humanitarian left phenomenon along with some criticism from populists who oppose multinational corporations and foreign-produced products. The libertarians don't tend to have many problems with Walmart outside of the times that Walmart gets in bed with big government (e.g. supporting passage of minimum wage laws or using influence to impact decisions regarding land use laws and eminent domain).

[Nightwish]

Please. Anti-Walmartism is predominantly a labor union and humanitarian left phenomenon along with some criticism from populists who oppose multinational corporations and foreign-produced products. The libertarians don't tend to have many problems with Walmart outside of the times that Walmart gets in bed with big government (e.g. supporting passage of minimum wage laws or using influence to impact decisions regarding land use laws and eminent domain).
I say it is more Libertian than Left, because the motivation for criticism of Wal-Mart usually seems to be the protection of the small business owner, not anything to do with governance and policy. While there are governance and policy issues sometimes at play, it has been my experience (which is admittedly limited) that the "Wal-Mart Sprawl" issue comes up most often, and that's a Libertarian cause, not a Leftist cause.

[banyon]

I say it is more Libertian than Left, because the motivation for criticism of Wal-Mart usually seems to be the protection of the small business owner, not anything to do with governance and policy. While there are governance and policy issues sometimes at play, it has been my experience (which is admittedly limited) that the "Wal-Mart Sprawl" issue comes up most often, and that's a Libertarian cause, not a Leftist cause.

I think I'm with patteeu on this one. Most criticism of Wal-Mart is because of "Free Trade" issues and damping effects on wage labor, which are both left/populist issues.

Protecting the small business owners is often an issue, but there's not much in Libertarian policy (i.e. no economic regulation) that would prevent Wal-Mart from putting those folks out of business.

[patteeu]

I'm for a secure border that is capable of substantially preventing illegals from crossing whether that is accomplished by wall or increased numbers of border guards or otherwise.

I'm for focusing legal immigration on people who will be productive members of US society and who will assimilate rather than those who are likely to become wards of the state or criminals.

I'm OK with a guest worker program if there is a legitimate need for workers that the US labor market can't support.

I'm for a one strike and you're out policy that would make people who cross the border illegally or who intentionally overstay their VISAs would lose any future possibility of immigrating legally. Legal immigrants who commit serious crimes should be deported without an opportunity for legal return as well (perhaps during a probation period).

I'm soft on amnesty, but I'd only offer some form of a pathway to citizenship to those who have assimilated and become productive. Securing the border should come first though.

End all benefits for illegal immigrants including health care and schools with the possible exception of emergency health care.

[Nightwish]

I think I'm with patteeu on this one. Most criticism of Wal-Mart is because of "Free Trade" issues and damping effects on wage labor, which are both left/populist issues.

Protecting the small business owners is often an issue, but there's not much in Libertarian policy (i.e. no economic regulation) that would prevent Wal-Mart from putting those folks out of business.
You could be right. As I said, my experience with anti-Walmartism is very limited. The issues that I've personally experienced (from growing up in towns where it was an issue) have usually been of the latter variety, so I'm not terribly familiar with the phenomenon beyond the sprawl issue.

[caffeinated_virus]

Seems, that the majority feel the same; against illegal immigration, amnesty and for coming down hard on employeers who employ illegals.

I'm doing everything I can and more to help fight this issue. I volunteer for a few organizations that send out flyers to educate our country (you'd be surprised how "in the dark" many people are...but as soon as they get information, they are downright pissed off).

I am not promoting any of these web sites below. They are ones I check daily and to get more information. Feel free to take a look:

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer

http://www.numbersusa.com/index

http://www.steinreport.com/

http://www.alipac.us/

Pass these sites to friends and family who are against illegal immigration, amnesty etc. The more people we have on our side, the better.


Here is to the U.S.A.!

Cheers,

CV

[Bowser]

Why doesn't Mexico catch more heat for the number of illegals that come across the border? Why does their president bust on us for wanting to deport illegals?

[Bowser]

I'm pretty far right on this issue.

Pro-Border Wall (as long as it is an actual wall)

Pro-Stiff Employer Penalties

Pro-Deportation of Illegals

Anti-Amnesty

Agreed 100%

[Donger]

Why doesn't Mexico catch more heat for the number of illegals that come across the border? Why does their president bust on us for wanting to deport illegals?

Because of the money that the illegals send back to Mexico. It's their second largest source of revenue, IIRC, after oil exports.

I agree with banyon, although I would take it a bit further. Two warning shots and then a head shot.

[Bowser]

Because of the money that the illegals send back to Mexico. It's their second largest source of revenue, IIRC, after oil exports.Seriously? I had no idea of that, although it makes sense.

I agree with banyon, although I would take it a bit further. Two warning shots and then a head shot. Heh. There would be no shortage of people signing up be a Border Patrolman, for sure.

[Demonpenz]

with all the people we could really make a difference on this issue. Lets go to mexico missouri and beat up everyone.

[caffeinated_virus]

Why doesn't Mexico catch more heat for the number of illegals that come across the border? Why does their president bust on us for wanting to deport illegals?

Because it would kill them economcially. Seriously, it is a joke. The Mexican government is education Mexicans on how to cross the border illegaly, get a job and how to wire the money back to Mexico. Make no bones about it, the Mexican government is a huge part of the blame.

Check this out: They whined and complianed because we wanted a fence built. They bitched and moaned and said it was a crime against humanity. Well guess what. Mexico's southern border has a HUGE wall that is patrolled by the Military to block people coming into Mexico. Talk about your double standard. It's a joke.

I feel real passionate about this issue. It bothers me a lot. It bothers me that our government has their own agenda and it includes giving away our country.

BUt, we can make a difference. Check out some of those links above, read some of the articles. And when you are good and mad, get your friends and family, sign up to help and start FAX blasting the crap out of congress that you don't want it.

This is YOUR country.

[banyon]

Because it would kill them economcially. Seriously, it is a joke. The Mexican government is education Mexicans on how to cross the border illegaly, get a job and how to wire the money back to Mexico. Make no bones about it, the Mexican government is a huge part of the blame.

Check this out: They whined and complianed because we wanted a fence built. They bitched and moaned and said it was a crime against humanity. Well guess what. Mexico's southern border has a HUGE wall that is patrolled by the Military to block people coming into Mexico. Talk about your double standard. It's a joke.

I feel real passionate about this issue. It bothers me a lot. It bothers me that our government has their own agenda and it includes giving away our country.

BUt, we can make a difference. Check out some of those links above, read some of the articles. And when you are good and mad, get your friends and family, sign up to help and start FAX blasting the crap out of congress that you don't want it.

This is our country.

Well, you had me convinced until you started with the Mellencamp Lyrics.

[noa]

Check this out: They whined and complianed because we wanted a fence built. They bitched and moaned and said it was a crime against humanity. Well guess what. Mexico's southern border has a HUGE wall that is patrolled by the Military to block people coming into Mexico. Talk about your double standard. It's a joke.



Mr. Caffeinated Virus, San Diego is where you live and they have a border fence right? What are your opinions on the fence? Does it work? Is it a fair model for a larger border fence?

[caffeinated_virus]

Mr. Caffeinated Virus, San Diego is where you live and they have a border fence right? What are your opinions on the fence? Does it work? Is it a fair model for a larger border fence?

Ya, a fence works. The one here was improved couple of years ago. The problem is, where most illegals cross, there is no fence. :banghead:

Still think if we cracked down on employeers, denied benefits to illegals that should ONLY go to AMerican citizens, the issue would pretty much resolve it self.

Deny jobs.
Deny benefits.

They end up having to go home.

Politicians make this issue far more complex than it needs to be. Enforce the laws and watch them leave. That is why small towns over the country are enforcing laws with great success.

Escondido, CA, which is about 15 minutes north of me just voted to pass laws against illegal immigration.

Hazelton, PA did the same. The stats in Hazelton are pretty impressive. They passed laws to punish landlords and employeers who rent and employee illegal immigraints. They had 30,000 illegals in their city (estimate). After these laws were passed, they are down to under 10,000.

[caffeinated_virus]

Well, you had me convinced until you started with the Mellencamp Lyrics.

Damn...didn't think about that.
What if I changed it a bit? :)

[Pitt Gorilla]

I'm pretty far right on this issue.

Pro-Border Wall (as long as it is an actual wall)

Pro-Stiff Employer Penalties

Pro-Deportation of Illegals

Anti-AmnestyI agree on almost everything. The exception being that I would like to know more about the cost/benefit of a physical wall.

[caffeinated_virus]

I agree on almost everything. The exception being that I would like to know more about the cost/benefit of a physical wall.

Here you go:

http://www.weneedafence.com/

Really good job of explaining why. One thing that seems to get overlooked, is that our pourous border is where terrorist can easily get through.

[caffeinated_virus]

With huge illegal immigration issues at hand, thought I would bump this.

[Amnorix]

I live in Boston. It's just not that pressing an issue around here, I must say.

I could see being alot more passionate about it if I lived in a border state or whatever.

It doesn't even make my top 10 list of things I care about in politics.

So, in summary, my vote on this issue can be bought. ;)

[vailpass]

Seriously? I had no idea of that, although it makes sense.

Why do you think there are Western Union stations on every block here in Phoenix? The friggin mexis wire back the tax fee, social security free cash they earn here.

Illegals are like cockroaches here, no way to get them all no matter how hard you try. Last night on the news they showed three houses that were used as way-stations by coyotes. Each house had 60-70 illegals in it, packed like cattle. They'll bus 'em back today and the bastards will be swimming across tonight and they'll keep at it until they make it.

[CRONUS]

I live in California and you can count me in the 83% of Californians who think they should be legalized as long as they have a job and plan to pursue citizenship.

[penchief]

I know it's hard to tell sometimes because of the stuff that gets reported. Wal-Mart is Big Business. It has deep pockets and a huge presence across the country. They make for an easy target.

But they push the envelope, too.

[CRONUS]

1) Eliminate access to social programs by non-citizens, with the exception of public schooling for minors and "English as a second language" classes for adults.

2) Grant Resident Legal Alien status to anyone who can provide proof of employment, proof including payment of income tax. Use the income tax to fund schooling.

3) A child born of a Legal Resident Alien retains the nationality of its parents. There is another solution for children of immigrants but it is harsh and I doubt that anyone would abide by it.


We need immigrants who are here to become part of "The American Dream". They should be welcome. We do not need more people dependant on the socialistic tendencies of our government.

I like what listo said, good ideas all.