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MOhillbilly
11-17-2006, 11:34 AM
is this how the masons get blamed for satanism?



id like to read up on the templar knights. suggestions on good books?

Redrum_69
11-17-2006, 11:38 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry

Redrum_69
11-17-2006, 11:40 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holy_Blood_and_the_Holy_Grail

http://www.gl-ks.org/

http://www.momason.org/

StcChief
11-17-2006, 11:43 AM
Google anyone?

pikesome
11-17-2006, 11:43 AM
Once upon a time if you didn't like someone and wanted a good excuse to ruin them, you called them a Satanist. Now a days we have other -ists and -phobes to tack onto people but the intent is the same.

MOhillbilly
11-17-2006, 11:45 AM
yeah smart dontcha think ive googled it?


i know there are individuals here who read lots of history and know there are shriners and masons here and wanted to hear there take and suggestions on books theyve read.


****ing momo

Bowser
11-17-2006, 11:50 AM
Right now I'm reading The Illuminatus! Trilogy. It's fiction, and doesn't deal directly with the Templars or Masons, but does mention them and their history. Interesting stuff, in a fiction kind of way.

Redrum_69
11-17-2006, 11:57 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_Bones

Redrum_69
11-17-2006, 11:57 AM
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/

Redrum_69
11-17-2006, 11:58 AM
http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/33rd_Initiation.htm

chagrin
11-17-2006, 12:47 PM
Their wikipedia entry is pretty damned informative, and thorough. I certainly own't claim to be any sort of expert, but I think that alot of it comes from the rituals they use for initiation, and each initiate is required to believe in the existence of a highwer power, there is no boundary or qualification as to which higher power the initiate believes in. So it can be satan, Shiva, God, whomever. I know that they do alot of reciting of phrases, etc during thier initiating. Someone porbably has said at one point "satan".

Danny Carey, the drummer from TOOL claims that his father was into the occult and also was a Mason.

Honestly though, I tend to believe they are a group of men who do good for others, and have what I would consider to be a "true brotherhood", and their spiritual beliefs do not prevent them from being members, no matter what they are.

sorry if that doesn't help, but the wikipedia entry is recommended.

Brock
11-17-2006, 01:03 PM
Join and find out for yourself.

Iowanian
11-17-2006, 01:42 PM
After reading the wiki, I learned a little about it....I've been told I'd make a good mason, but never have been asked to join.

After reading the wiki, it also turns out that its not an organization I could join.

morphius
11-17-2006, 01:48 PM
After reading the wiki, I learned a little about it....I've been told I'd make a good mason, but never have been asked to join.

After reading the wiki, it also turns out that its not an organization I could join.
You would never be asked to join, as they don't ask people to join. People just have to ask to be one.

Bob Dole
11-17-2006, 01:52 PM
After reading the wiki, I learned a little about it....I've been told I'd make a good mason, but never have been asked to join.




You're confusing "mason" with "janitor".

Stewie
11-17-2006, 02:01 PM
Danny Carey, the drummer from TOOL claims that his father was into the occult and also was a Mason.

I wonder... is he a CP member? I know he's a big Chiefs fan and has been to some games at Arrowhead this year according to the TOOL website. He's probably the best drummer going right now and he's from Paola, KS. Go figure.

scott free
11-17-2006, 03:38 PM
I have read quite extensively on this subject...the pro, the con and the in-between, trying to find the truth at the center. I have come away with a disquieting feeling from it all.

True story...the biggest park in my town recently renovated the kids play area with money donated by the Masons, it was really very nice.

At the back of the play area, just outside the border of used tire chips toward the back, is a 10-12 foot pentagram very skillfully drawn into a concrete pad that is 13 by 13 with a drain directly in the middle of the star. This was a part of the new addition. It is partially surrounded with 3 rows of bleacher style seating made of old railroad ties.

I really have to wonder what business something like that had at a playground and why it was semi-circled with seating. It caused quite the uproar and was removed a few months ago.

To say its shocking to see that at a playground is an understatement. While all sorts of occult symbology is very important to the Masons, i was disgusted to see them have it placed in an area reserved for innocent kids...one word kept popping up...WHY???

I had the chance a few years ago to read a Masonic handbook that had ended up in an old mans estate sale, some of the rites, rituals and wordings were VERY creepy and not at all in line with the benevolent, charitable public face of those groups Masons, Shriners, Rosicrucians etc.

I certainly wont claim to understand them, but through the years i have learned enough that i would NEVER attempt to join their ranks.

Fish
11-17-2006, 03:53 PM
At the back of the play area, just outside the border of used tire chips toward the back, is a 10-12 foot pentagram very skillfully drawn into a concrete pad that is 13 by 13 with a drain directly in the middle of the star. This was a part of the new addition. It is partially surrounded with 3 rows of bleacher style seating made of old railroad ties.

I really have to wonder what business something like that had at a playground and why it was semi-circled with seating. It caused quite the uproar and was removed a few months ago.

The pentagram has much more history and meaning than the hollywood stereotyped satan worshiping.... and it was used in Christianity back in the day...

Sounds like those folks all in an uproar were a little ignorant of it's meaning...

scott free
11-17-2006, 03:58 PM
The pentagram has much more history and meaning than the hollywood stereotyped satan worshiping.... and it was used in Christianity back in the day...

Sounds like those folks all in an uproar were a little ignorant of it's meaning...


I am aware of the different variations & uses of it through the years, but IMO black OR white magic has no place at a playground.

I dont want wicca or satanism around my kids.

When its placed there at the orders of shadowy organizations, i cannot trust the intent.

Those folks have some weird ass beliefs.

Fish
11-17-2006, 04:36 PM
I am aware of the different variations & uses of it through the years, but IMO black OR white magic has no place at a playground.

I dont want wicca or satanism around my kids.

When its placed there at the orders of shadowy organizations, i cannot trust the intent.

Those folks have some weird ass beliefs.

You are again stereotyping it with magic, satanism, or wiccan beliefs. It's not all about religion. It has only gotten this bad stereotype in the last few hundred years. Before that it wasn't seen as anything evil at all. Actually, at one time it was worn by Christians and represented the 5 crucifixion wounds of Christ... and was meant to ward off witches and demons.

It also has profound mathematical and geometrical meanings. And has been used as an astronomical symbol to represent planets.

The Masons appreciated it for it's mathematical symbolism. It represents the Golden ratio... and mathematical perfection. The masons are much more concerned with geometrical beauty and mathematical accuracy than they are with witches or satan....

scott free
11-17-2006, 04:43 PM
You are again stereotyping it with magic, satanism, or wiccan beliefs. It's not all about religion. It has only gotten this bad stereotype in the last few hundred years. Before that it wasn't seen as anything evil at all. Actually, at one time it was worn by Christians and represented the 5 crucifixion wounds of Christ... and was meant to ward off witches and demons.

It also has profound mathematical and geometrical meanings. And has been used as an astronomical symbol to represent planets.

The Masons appreciated it for it's mathematical symbolism. It represents the Golden ratio... and mathematical perfection. The masons are much more concerned with geometrical beauty and mathematical accuracy than they are with witches or satan....


I agree with almost all of this KC, yet much of my reading has taken me to some distinctly dark corners regarding these societies. And i dont mean internet sites either. Much of my apprehension stems from the Masonic handbook i read.

May i ask...are you a Mason and if so what degree???

Brock
11-17-2006, 04:47 PM
Those folks have some weird ass beliefs.

Who's to say what's weird? I find Christian beliefs and practices to be pretty strange.

Brock
11-17-2006, 04:50 PM
I agree with almost all of this KC, yet much of my reading has taken me to some distinctly dark corners regarding these societies. And i dont mean internet sites either. Much of my apprehension stems from the Masonic handbook i read.

May i ask...are you a Mason and if so what degree???

There is absolutely nothing about Masonry that is related to the occult, beyond the bible that is located at the center of every lodge.

redbrian
11-17-2006, 04:50 PM
You would never be asked to join, as they don't ask people to join. People just have to ask to be one.

I was asked just a couple of weeks ago if I wanted to join the Masons.

I've got the paper work on my desk right now and am in the process of filling it out.

Brock
11-17-2006, 04:51 PM
I was asked just a couple of weeks ago if I wanted to join the Masons.

I've got the paper work on my desk right now and am in the process of filling it out.

They have recently changed the practices so that people that they feel they want in the fraternity can be invited to join. Have fun.

TrickyNicky
11-17-2006, 04:55 PM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8394844811105390386&q=jordan+maxwell&hl=en

this video isnt just about freemasons. it includes templars, the vatican, and lots of other secret societies. there's alot of conspiracy oriented stuff in the video.

if this kind of thing interests you, you should checkout the wiki entries for Propaganda Due, One World Government, ratlines, operation paperclip and, the Thule society

scott free
11-17-2006, 05:00 PM
There is absolutely nothing about Masonry that is related to the occult, beyond the bible that is located at the center of every lodge.


You are certainly entitled to your beliefs and truth be told some of Christianitys practices & beliefs can seem a bit strange.

As for the occult influence what can i say, i have read what i have read and believe it to contain a lot of truth. The handbook spoke for itself as well.

Brock
11-17-2006, 05:02 PM
As for the occult influence what can i say, i have read what i have read and believe it to contain a lot of truth. The handbook spoke for itself as well.

The "handbook" you refer to is a joke if you were able to read it. Masonic ritual is encoded so that not just anybody can walk up and read it.

You probably picked up an antimasonry pamphlet. But believe what you want, just be aware that you're speaking from a position of ignorance.

Gonzo
11-17-2006, 05:06 PM
Who keeps the metric system down? We Doo! We Doo!

redbrian
11-17-2006, 05:07 PM
The "handbook" you refer to is a joke if you were able to read it. Masonic ritual is encoded so that not just anybody can walk up and read it.

You probably picked up an antimasonry pamphlet. But believe what you want, just be aware that you're speaking from a position of ignorance.

The first question I was asked when approached to join is if I believed in God.

If they were heavy into the occult I would have thought I would have been asked if I believed in Beelzebub. (yes this is a tonge in cheek comment)

scott free
11-17-2006, 05:07 PM
The "handbook" you refer to is a joke if you were able to read it. Masonic ritual is encoded so that not just anybody can walk up and read it.

You probably picked up an antimasonry pamphlet. But believe what you want, just be aware that you're speaking from a position of ignorance.


No, it was the real deal, the old man that died was 33rd degree. As for me misinterpreting it to a point, i suppose thats possible.

morphius
11-17-2006, 05:09 PM
The pentagram has much more history and meaning than the hollywood stereotyped satan worshiping.... and it was used in Christianity back in the day...

Sounds like those folks all in an uproar were a little ignorant of it's meaning...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Eastern_Star

It is actually a representation of the Star of Bethlehem, ohhh evil...

morphius
11-17-2006, 05:12 PM
I was asked just a couple of weeks ago if I wanted to join the Masons.

I've got the paper work on my desk right now and am in the process of filling it out.
Interesting, it is a long held rule that they are not supposed to ask.

redbrian
11-17-2006, 05:14 PM
Interesting, it is a long held rule that they are not supposed to ask.

I have a feeling they are trying to build up the ranks.

As with a lot of these groups the boomers and younger folks just don't beat down the doors to join.

Fish
11-17-2006, 05:16 PM
I agree with almost all of this KC, yet much of my reading has taken me to some distinctly dark corners regarding these societies. And i dont mean internet sites either. Much of my apprehension stems from the Masonic handbook i read.

May i ask...are you a Mason and if so what degree???

There are dark corners in every society in history....

Darkwolfe
11-17-2006, 09:02 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_Eastern_Star

It is actually a representation of the Star of Bethlehem, ohhh evil...

The wikipedia article is quite accurate. My grandparents on my mother's side were members of the Eastern Star. Never met anybody from that group that wasn't extremely nice and trustworthy. From knowing those people alone I have no concerns about the group at all.

FreeMasons are respected world-wide. My grandfather was one of those as well. He was extremely well-traveled and his status as a Mason was respected in many corners of the world that you and I will never see.

CHIEF4EVER
11-17-2006, 09:59 PM
Interesting, it is a long held rule that they are not supposed to ask.

Very true. Noone asked me, I joined voluntarily. Truth be told, I was interviewed and didn't realize it at the time if that makes any sense. They are very careful about who they allow to join.

Discuss Thrower
11-17-2006, 10:51 PM
2B1-ASK1.

That being said, I get tired when people say Freemasonry is devil worship. It's not. And it's hardly secretive, sadly I knew some of what was going to happen when I started my initiation 3 months ago..

Fairplay
11-18-2006, 05:26 AM
Who's to say what's weird? I find Christian beliefs and practices to be pretty strange.



Especially catholics.

Fairplay
11-18-2006, 05:34 AM
I was asked just a couple of weeks ago if I wanted to join the Masons.

I've got the paper work on my desk right now and am in the process of filling it out.



Join it. Then give us the inside scoop on their rituals and practices.
That would be interesting. Try to move up in the ranks to high priest or something.

Dave Lane
11-18-2006, 07:12 AM
Especially catholics.

Actually they are all very bizarre IF you hadn't been brought up with them. Its like even the cross bit. What if he had been electricuted would you wear a electric chair?

But given time and mythos the story seems normal and you accept it as such.

Dave

Fairplay
11-18-2006, 07:17 AM
I was raised catholic. We had to attend church every Sunday. I thought it was strange with those rituals and such. The incense smell of the church was so bad sometimes i thought i might pass out.

CoMoChief
11-18-2006, 07:22 AM
I'm reading Angels and Demons right now. It's a really good book and better than Divinci Code.

Adept Havelock
11-18-2006, 09:58 AM
Who's to say what's weird? I find Christian beliefs and practices to be pretty strange.


Indeed. Especially, IMO, the ritual symbolic cannibalism.

"Eat of my Flesh"? "Drink of my Blood"?

Devout Catholics believe it actually becomes The Flesh and Blood of Christ through Transubstantiation.

"Strange" is really quite relative.

CoMoChief
11-18-2006, 10:05 AM
Rock Chalk Jayhawk!