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View Full Version : Goonther outcoached by Bed & Breakfast Boy today


KCChiefsFan88
11-19-2006, 08:30 PM
Raiders actually looked like an NFL offense today... that is humiliation enough for Goonther.

Goonther cements himself as the Paul Hackett of defensive coordinators with every passing game. Goonther probably french kisses pictures of DT, Neil Smith and James Hasty before every game thanking them for creating the mirage (that the Chiefs are apparently still buying into) that he is a competent defensive coordinator.

Fruit Ninja
11-19-2006, 08:31 PM
I actually thought they did decent. There was plenty of times where a less mobile qb shoudl have been sacked. Brooks is a good scrambler and escaped alot of sacks today.

We still suck on the dline though.

Halfcan
11-19-2006, 08:33 PM
We only allowed 13 points and we won. But I agree we were WAAAYY too conservative. I don't think Jared Allen needs to be dropping back in coverage-Ever!

unlurking
11-19-2006, 08:35 PM
I actually thought they did decent. There was plenty of times where a less mobile qb shoudl have been sacked. Brooks is a good scrambler and escaped alot of sacks today.

We still suck on the dline though.
Agreed. If Walter had been in there, we would have sacked him several times. Brooks gives their offense an added dimension, and too many people wrote him off. Brooks his 10 times the QB Walter is. I would not be surprised to see the Raiders offense start picking up some steam with him back.

morphius
11-19-2006, 08:40 PM
Somehow they only scored 31 points on us today...

Deberg_1990
11-19-2006, 08:41 PM
13 points is a humilation???? Zero in the 2nd half. Explain that to me??

Brooks was able to elude the rush and get off a few lucky passes. Big deal, it happens......It wouldnt have even come down to the final minute if Tynes could hit a gimmie field goal.

milkman
11-19-2006, 08:43 PM
Points allowed is the bottom line, but I just can't get over how this defense is abused on 3rd and long situations.

DMAC
11-19-2006, 09:00 PM
Nobody got outcoached...

It is a heated rivalry, it will always be a good game.

Spott
11-19-2006, 09:26 PM
Didn't Denver just beat Oakland by the exact same score last week? I would prefer a blowout, but on the other hand, I like winning 7(going on 8) games in a row over the Raiders all in heartbreaking fashion. I know that pisses their fans off worse than losing 30-0.

ChiefsFanatic
11-19-2006, 09:27 PM
It seems like I always say this, but Gunther did not pick this defensive scheme. Herm did. This is not the defense that Gun would run given the choice.

We only gave up 13 points, and only allowed 1 TD. Perhaps all the D bashers should break out there dvds from the last few years and watch some of those games, because it seems like some of you need some perspective.

milkman
11-19-2006, 09:28 PM
It seems like I always say this, but Gunther did not pick this defensive scheme. Herm did. This is not the defense that Gun would run given the choice.

We only gave up 13 points, and only allowed 1 TD. Perhaps all the D bashers should break out there dvds from the last few years and watch some of those games, because it seems like some of you need some perspective.

Just another Gunt excuse.

ChiefsFanatic
11-19-2006, 09:32 PM
Just another Gunt excuse.

Whatever, douche.

Tell me that 2 years ago you wouldn't have given your left nut for a defense that could rank 14th in the league.

Halfcan
11-19-2006, 09:32 PM
13 points is a humilation???? Zero in the 2nd half. Explain that to me??

Brooks was able to elude the rush and get off a few lucky passes. Big deal, it happens......It wouldnt have even come down to the final minute if Tynes could hit a gimmie field goal.

I am sick of Tynes and his easy misses at crunch time. :banghead:

Deberg_1990
11-19-2006, 09:32 PM
I am sick of Tynes and his easy misses at crunch time. :banghead:

Yep. me too....I dont get it??

Halfcan
11-19-2006, 09:33 PM
Points allowed is the bottom line, but I just can't get over how this defense is abused on 3rd and long situations.

Because the QB has all day back there-Brooks lit up his crack pipe several times he had so much time.

milkman
11-19-2006, 09:33 PM
Whatever, douche.

Tell me that 2 years ago you wouldn't have given your left nut for a defense that could rank 14th in the league.

**** off, dickbreath.

ChiefsFanatic
11-19-2006, 09:34 PM
I am sick of Tynes and his easy misses at crunch time. :banghead:

Every time he lines up, I just assume that he is going to miss. That way, when he makes it, I am surprised, and when he misses, I can just say "I knew it"

morphius
11-19-2006, 09:41 PM
Points allowed is the bottom line, but I just can't get over how this defense is abused on 3rd and long situations.
Yup, that is truly the most discouraging thing.

FringeNC
11-19-2006, 09:41 PM
The first half was an embarrassment. The Raiders have been an absolute joke on offense, and we couldn't stop them. We could have been way down at halftime.

ChiefsFanatic
11-19-2006, 09:42 PM
Yup, that is truly the most discouraging thing.

I get upset when we give up 17 on 3rd and 16, but I also remember when we were giving up 38 each game, and had to rely on our offense to score 41.

I am much more concerned with the playcalling of Solari.

Deberg_1990
11-19-2006, 09:43 PM
Because the QB has all day back there-Brooks lit up his crack pipe several times he had so much time.

In the past this D would have given up 3 TD's and 300 yards passing to such superstars like Joey Harrington and Aaron Brooks.


Still not perfect but they have come a looooong way.

bishop_74
11-19-2006, 09:44 PM
KC
Total Net Yards 326 :eek:
Touchdowns 1

Denver
Total Net Yards 244
Touchdowns 1

Seattle
Total Net Yards 185
Touchdowns 0

Pittsburg
Total Net Yards 98
Touchdowns 2

They seem to be improving every week. Almost like another team I know with a new head coach.

mikey23545
11-19-2006, 09:45 PM
Raiders actually looked like an NFL offense today... that is humiliation enough for Goonther.

Goonther cements himself as the Paul Hackett of defensive coordinators with every passing game. Goonther probably french kisses pictures of DT, Neil Smith and James Hasty before every game thanking them for creating the mirage (that the Chiefs are apparently still buying into) that he is a competent defensive coordinator.

Scoreboard, bitch...

milkman
11-19-2006, 09:45 PM
In the past this D would have given up 3 TD's and 300 yards passing to such superstars like Joey Harrington and Aaron Brooks.


Still not perfect but they have come a looooong way.

Yes, they are improved, but aside from 3rd and long issue, this team still also has tackling issues, and that falls directly on Gunt and his hand picked new staff.

morphius
11-19-2006, 09:47 PM
I get upset when we give up 17 on 3rd and 16, but I also remember when we were giving up 38 each game, and had to rely on our offense to score 41.

I am much more concerned with the playcalling of Solari.
Eh, Solari was trying to keep it close and ease Green back in. The game was close and we were never out of range. I think putting the game on Green's shoulders the first game back might have been a bigger mistake, especially with out mishmash OL.

morphius
11-19-2006, 09:48 PM
opps...

Deberg_1990
11-19-2006, 09:49 PM
I am much more concerned with the playcalling of Solari.

Its not so much Solari. He is just implementing Herms philosophy.


Run the ball, control the clock, rest your defense for a big play.

A win is a win whether you score, 41 or 14.....

Considering all the obstacles this team has had to overcome, Herm is doing a fine job. This team doesnt have the talent to be 12-14 win team.

Give Herm another year or two to get all the pieces he wants in place.

ChiefsFanatic
11-19-2006, 09:50 PM
Eh, Solari was trying to keep it close and ease Green back in. The game was close and we were never out of range. I think putting the game on Green's shoulders the first game back might have been a bigger mistake, especially with out mishmash OL.

Herm deserves some blame, too. If we had attempted more than 4 passes in the first half, maybe Green could have got into rythm before we were down.

In the 4th quarter it seemd like he started to get going, and it showed in his play.

dj56dt58
11-19-2006, 10:56 PM
It seems like I always say this, but Gunther did not pick this defensive scheme. Herm did. This is not the defense that Gun would run given the choice.

We only gave up 13 points, and only allowed 1 TD. Perhaps all the D bashers should break out there dvds from the last few years and watch some of those games, because it seems like some of you need some perspective.
your right..I just put a few in and I remember how bad it was when we couldn't stop anyone on 3rd down.

wait.. :banghead:

Count Alex's Losses
11-19-2006, 11:15 PM
Gunther did a great job.

Toad
11-19-2006, 11:48 PM
13 points is not bad, although a good offense would have turned it into at least 20.

One question- did we have even ONE sack on D today?

milkman
11-19-2006, 11:49 PM
13 points is not bad, although a good offense would have turned it into at least 20.

One question- did we have even ONE sack on D today?

Technically, yes.

Brooks was flushed out of the pocket and ran OOB about a yard behind the LOS.

Fruit Ninja
11-19-2006, 11:57 PM
Points allowed is the bottom line, but I just can't get over how this defense is abused on 3rd and long situations.
ole gun has always been about Bend but dont Break. Even in the 90's the CHiefs gave up some yards but didnt Allow many points.

milkman
11-19-2006, 11:59 PM
ole gun has always been about Bend but dont Break. Even in the 90's the CHiefs gave up some yards but didnt Allow many points.

And in case you haven't noticed, I've always been a Gunt basher.

Rausch
11-20-2006, 12:00 AM
Raiders actually looked like an NFL offense today... that is humiliation enough for Goonther.

Goonther cements himself as the Paul Hackett of defensive coordinators with every passing game. Goonther probably french kisses pictures of DT, Neil Smith and James Hasty before every game thanking them for creating the mirage (that the Chiefs are apparently still buying into) that he is a competent defensive coordinator.

Once again, 13 pts allowed should be enough to beat any team any week.

Period.

Fruit Ninja
11-20-2006, 12:02 AM
And in case you haven't noticed, I've always been a Gunt basher.
yeah, and thats fine. Long as the Chiefs win, i could care less how they do it, if its by 40 or by 1.

ChiefsFanatic
11-20-2006, 01:37 AM
ole gun has always been about Bend but dont Break. Even in the 90's the CHiefs gave up some yards but didnt Allow many points.

The NFL ranks defenses by yards given up per game, and Gun had the #1 defense a couple of times, and was in the top 5 a couple of times, IIRC.

Fruit Ninja
11-20-2006, 02:34 AM
The NFL ranks defenses by yards given up per game, and Gun had the #1 defense a couple of times, and was in the top 5 a couple of times, IIRC.
i think we may have been up there, but i think we were tops in the top 5 in scoring D back in them days. Remember i think it was 97 when we didnt give up a td in the second half for like 12 games in a row or something insane like that.

Crashride
11-20-2006, 02:53 AM
Defense stepped it up in the second half. They missed crucial sacks but didnt give up points. Do that consistanly plus taking the leash off Trent and we have ourselves a contender

el borracho
11-20-2006, 02:57 AM
Brooks isn't very good but at this point in time he is miles ahead of Walters. The Raidurr team we played today was bad but not as bad as they have been with Walters under center. If Walters had played the whole game the Chiefs could have padded their defensive stats. As it is, we take the win.

boogblaster
11-20-2006, 08:03 AM
Gun calls the plays..he doesnt play on the field ...hes as good as most DCs..13 points isnt that bad....

Gaz
11-20-2006, 08:10 AM
No interior push. That is the major problem with our Defense. I was surprised that Gunther did not blitz more.

This thread is seriously misguided.

xoxo~
Gaz
Wonders if Gunther can play DT.

Chiefs_Mike_Topeka
11-20-2006, 08:21 AM
Yes, they are improved, but aside from 3rd and long issue, this team still also has tackling issues, and that falls directly on Gunt and his hand picked new staff.


Tackling issues are ALWAYS the players problems. Coaches should not have to constantly be riding a player on how to tackle. Hell they are in the NFL you should damn sure know how to tackle by this level. If a player misses a tackle it means the coaches HAD HIM IN POSITION to make the play, its the player who then has to actually do his job.

I think it has become worse since teams don't hit at full speed in practice. Teaches the defenders to not be as aggressive and they assume just shouldering the runner will be enough. That is the only aspect of tackling I blame on the coaches.

burt
11-20-2006, 08:30 AM
Gunther did a great job.

A sign of the apocolypse...I agree with GoChiefs! Gun did fine. It was a given that the Raiders would f*** up and self destruct. We played conservatively both ways. Conservatively on D because Brooks is such a good scrambler, and the Raiders would self destruct. Conservatively on O because we needed Trent to shake off the rust, and well, we knew the Raiders would self destruct.

A pretty good effort all around.

jidar
11-20-2006, 08:39 AM
Look at how ****ing stupid you people are.

You get these perceptions in your head from one or two bad plays and then you can't see the big picture.

For example, we just had this god damned thread about 3rd and longs the other week, someone actually dug up the stats and it turns out we weren't that bad after all. I'd dig the thread back up but I just know that next week you'll ****ing do it again.

As for the Raiders, Brooks is a much better QB than the bum who was backing him up so it's to be expected.

The problems with our D had can be attributed almost ENTIRELY to Brooks. We broke down their plays I don't know how many times but Brooks was able to scramble and make a play. Those were clearly situations where had Brooks not been in there we would have gotten the sack and got the Raiders O off the field, and Oaklands offensive production would have been on par with the bottom dweller numbers they were putting up when Brooks was out.

The fact is we held them to one TD and a couple field goals to seal the win, and we did it with our leading tackler out for the game.

StcChief
11-20-2006, 08:51 AM
Gun bend but don't break worked.

Brooks scramble making plays kept them close.

ChiefsFanatic
11-20-2006, 09:07 AM
Look at how ****ing stupid you people are.

The fact is we held them to one TD and a couple field goals to seal the win, and we did it with our leading tackler out for the game.

A-Fu**ing-Men

htismaqe
11-20-2006, 10:30 AM
Whatever, douche.

Tell me that 2 years ago you wouldn't have given your left nut for a defense that could rank 14th in the league.

Gunther didn't pick this scheme, Herm did.

And that's why we're GOOD.

Gunther can't do it by himself, he's not capable.

CoMoChief
11-20-2006, 11:02 AM
Its not so much Solari. He is just implementing Herms philosophy.


Run the ball, control the clock, rest your defense for a big play.

A win is a win whether you score, 41 or 14.....

Considering all the obstacles this team has had to overcome, Herm is doing a fine job. This team doesnt have the talent to be 12-14 win team.

Give Herm another year or two to get all the pieces he wants in place.


In that time Trent will be gone. Our chances of making the playoffs without him are slim.

FringeNC
11-20-2006, 11:10 AM
Gunther didn't pick this scheme, Herm did.

And that's why we're GOOD.

Gunther can't do it by himself, he's not capable.

Are we GOOD? Certainly there has been improvement, but that's the best Oakland has looked on offense all year.

siberian khatru
11-20-2006, 11:12 AM
Are we GOOD? Certainly there has been improvement, but that's the best Oakland has looked on offense all year.

A lot of that had to do with Brooks' escapability.

jspchief
11-20-2006, 11:19 AM
11th in the league in scoring D
15th in 3rd down percentage
14th in yards alowed
16th in rushing yards allowed
12th in avg yards per carry
12th in passing yards allowed


This defense is leaps and bounds beyond what it was two years ago.

FringeNC
11-20-2006, 11:19 AM
A lot of that had to do with Brooks' escapability.

Brooks has been out awhile I know, but did the Raiders sustain drives like that before he got injured?

I'll give credit to Gunther for making adjustments at halftime, but I don't think it's fair to sugarcoat the first half. We're talking about the worst offensive team in football dominating our defense.

L.A. Chieffan
11-20-2006, 11:21 AM
1 TD. That's brutal. Our D sucks.

siberian khatru
11-20-2006, 11:22 AM
11th in the league in scoring D
15th in 3rd down percentage
14th in yards alowed
16th in rushing yards allowed
12th in avg yards per carry
12th in passing yards allowed


This defense is leaps and bounds beyond what it was two years ago.

I think some people are forgetting how truly atrocious this D was.

I'm as guilty as anyone on game threads pissing and moaning during the play-by-play about missed tackles, 3rd-and-long conversions, blown assignments, etc. But in the end, when you step back and cool off and look at the big picture, we're clearly better. Is it good enough? We'll see. But we're better.

MichaelH
11-20-2006, 11:25 AM
Points allowed is the bottom line, but I just can't get over how this defense is abused on 3rd and long situations.

That right there frustrates the hell out of me. I get so sick of 3rd and 19 and the offense converts. The inabilty to stop third down conversions is the most glaring problem with our defense in my opinion. It will come back to haunt us.

siberian khatru
11-20-2006, 11:25 AM
Brooks has been out awhile I know, but did the Raiders sustain drives like that before he got injured?

I'll give credit to Gunther for making adjustments at halftime, but I don't think it's fair to sugarcoat the first half. We're talking about the worst offensive team in football dominating our defense.

Well, he only played one game before getting hurt, so it's hard to compare. They got shut out by the Chargers in Week 1 and he played awful, but that was opening week, vs. a good D, etc.

I don't think Brooks is a good QB, but he's better than Walter. Yeah, we got punked in the 1st half, but we shut them out in the 2nd, so ...

jspchief
11-20-2006, 11:31 AM
That right there frustrates the hell out of me. I get so sick of 3rd and 19 and the offense converts. The inabilty to stop third down conversions is the most glaring problem with our defense in my opinion. It will come back to haunt us.15th in the league in 3rd down conversions allowed.

Our biggest problem is interior D-line. The Cover 2 won't ever be great until you get a D-line that can pressure without help. We can rush the edges, but the QB still has a pocket to step into because of no push from the DTs.

Yesterday our DEs were crashing inside more, and it gave Brooks room to scramble outside the pocket. We adjusted at halftime and contained his scrambling but then he had a pocket to throw from.

With our current personnel, we're going to be a bending defense. What matters is that we've been fairly stout inside the redzone.

shaneo69
11-20-2006, 11:41 AM
I've been a Gunther defender in the past, but I will be shocked if we hold San Diego under 45 points.

Yeah we held Miami and Oakland to 13 points, but I don't think we're playing well enough. Not that we're as bad as we were in 2003, but I think the people that are defending this defense are just looking at the results and rationalizing that we're a lot better. Kind of like how people defended the defense in 2003 because we were 9-0 at the time.

Yeah we could go 10-6 this year and end up with much better defensive rankings, but is the defense really good enough to hold up in the playoffs? If the defense is not good enough to win in the playoffs, then the higher rankings are worthless.