PDA

View Full Version : The Bible online


Believer
11-27-2006, 04:13 PM
http://bibledev.azaz.com/bibleresources/bible_kjv.php

elvomito
11-27-2006, 04:27 PM
Passage Mark 13:7:
When you hear of wars and rumors of wars, do not be alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.

ok but YOU tell the people in the DC forum that

Reaper16
11-27-2006, 05:10 PM
King James version sucks.

Also, blatant message board proselytizing is sorta' lame, don't you think?

chagrin
11-27-2006, 05:14 PM
So what's the wager on who "believer" is and who is the front runner, GoChiefs?

Jenson71
11-27-2006, 05:24 PM
Luke 14:26

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.

FAX
11-27-2006, 05:37 PM
I think this is cool. Thanks for posting, Mr. Believer.

I wish there was a "talking" version, though. So I could listen while I'm working.

FAX

old_geezer
11-27-2006, 06:14 PM
I too thank you for posting the link. I've got it bookmarked.

chagrin
11-27-2006, 07:00 PM
I think this is cool. Thanks for posting, Mr. Believer.

I wish there was a "talking" version, though. So I could listen while I'm working.

FAX


Just so you know FAX, there is a talking version, I do not have the link handy, but it's out there.

PastorMikH
11-27-2006, 07:02 PM
So what's the wager on who "believer" is and who is the front runner, GoChiefs?



It's not me. I would have put this online Bible up....

http://www.biblegateway.com/


Has most of the translations anyone has heard of and can search in any of them. I use it all the time. I don't know if it will talk for FAX though.

FAX
11-27-2006, 07:02 PM
Just so you know FAX, there is a talking version, I do not have the link handy, but it's out there.

Awesome. Found it ... http://www.audio-bible.com/bible/bible.html ...

Thanks, Mr. chagrin.

FAX

DMAC
11-27-2006, 07:13 PM
I don't care who you are Believer, you are doing the Lords work, and that is what matters.

plbrdude
11-27-2006, 08:27 PM
although i am a believer, i am not believer

FAX
11-27-2006, 09:01 PM
The audio bible is very cool.

The guy reading has a deep, vibrant voice and is very emotive. It's like your computer is channeling Aaron.

FAX

Jenson71
11-27-2006, 09:12 PM
Luke 14:26

"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple.

Any comments on this passage?

FAX
11-27-2006, 09:35 PM
Any comments on this passage?

Most people explain the phrase as hyperbole, Mr. Jenson71.

Assuming this is a literal and wholly accurate statment, my interpretation would be that Jesus is commanding that natural world or "earthly" relationships may not take precedence over the spiritual. God is first speak.

Strong language, to be sure.

FAX

Believer
11-27-2006, 09:37 PM
Any comments on this passage?

I think its important to read the entire parable from Luke 14, not just one part

The Cost of Being a Disciple
25Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple. 27And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

28"Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Will he not first sit down and estimate the cost to see if he has enough money to complete it? 29For if he lays the foundation and is not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule him, 30saying, 'This fellow began to build and was not able to finish.'

31"Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Will he not first sit down and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand? 32If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still a long way off and will ask for terms of peace. 33In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.

34"Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? 35It is fit neither for the soil nor for the manure pile; it is thrown out.
"He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

What I believe Jesus is saying, is not literally "hate your family", but know what it really means to follow Him. To be thoughtful about your choice. It not about just saying "oh yeah, I believe in Jesus", its about putting Him first in your life, to put your faith in Him, to put your trust in Him. To "sell out" to Him, so to speak. To put your words of Sunday into action the rest of the week. In doing so, or in the striving to do so, we can become better husbands, wives, parents, children. At least thats how I read it.

There is great wisdom in the Parables and you wouldnt want to try to interpret one by reading just one or two lines.

SLAG
11-27-2006, 09:40 PM
It's not me. I would have put this online Bible up....

http://www.biblegateway.com/


Has most of the translations anyone has heard of and can search in any of them. I use it all the time. I don't know if it will talk for FAX though.


Thats an awesome site Pastor.

i did not find the New American Bible Listed on there... Maybe i just didnt see it

SLAG
11-27-2006, 09:53 PM
Thats an awesome site Pastor.

i did not find the New American Bible Listed on there... Maybe i just didnt see it


wait wait..

it does have something better

the Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

:D

Lzen
11-28-2006, 10:21 AM
Ok, after reading post #16, I don't think there's any way that Believer is GoChiefs.

Great post, btw.

Lzen
11-28-2006, 10:24 AM
Awesome. Found it ... http://www.audio-bible.com/bible/bible.html ...

Thanks, Mr. chagrin.

FAX

Great site. But why must they use Real Player?
:banghead:

Nightwish
11-28-2006, 11:19 AM
I am not Believer. But I am Keyser Soze.

foxman
11-28-2006, 11:49 AM
I think its important to read the entire parable from Luke 14, not just one part

The Cost of Being a Disciple
25Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters—yes, even his own life—he cannot be my disciple. 27And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

28"Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Will he not first sit down and estimate the cost to see if he has enough money to complete it? 29For if he lays the foundation and is not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule him, 30saying, 'This fellow began to build and was not able to finish.'

31"Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Will he not first sit down and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand? 32If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still a long way off and will ask for terms of peace. 33In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.

34"Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? 35It is fit neither for the soil nor for the manure pile; it is thrown out.
"He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

What I believe Jesus is saying, is not literally "hate your family", but know what it really means to follow Him. To be thoughtful about your choice. It not about just saying "oh yeah, I believe in Jesus", its about putting Him first in your life, to put your faith in Him, to put your trust in Him. To "sell out" to Him, so to speak. To put your words of Sunday into action the rest of the week. In doing so, or in the striving to do so, we can become better husbands, wives, parents, children. At least thats how I read it.

There is great wisdom in the Parables and you wouldnt want to try to interpret one by reading just one or two lines.


:clap:

PastorMikH
11-28-2006, 12:04 PM
What I believe Jesus is saying, is not literally "hate your family", but know what it really means to follow Him. To be thoughtful about your choice. It not about just saying "oh yeah, I believe in Jesus", its about putting Him first in your life, to put your faith in Him, to put your trust in Him. To "sell out" to Him, so to speak. To put your words of Sunday into action the rest of the week. In doing so, or in the striving to do so, we can become better husbands, wives, parents, children. At least thats how I read it.





Nice job Believer.


Keep in mind all, the essence of what is being said from language to language may use words differently. For example, I may say my car is maroon, but someone translating into spanish might say "Rojo" or Red. Are they wrong? Well, Marroon is a shade of red, but it's not the same color of red that comes to my mind.

Also understand the the scriptures often employ figures of speach to convey the importance of what is being said.

In this passage, by Jesus saying Hate your Mother, Father, Children, etc. IMO, He is expressing the level of love a person should have for the Lord and that it should be our strongest love - stronger than the love we have for even family members.

PastorMikH
11-28-2006, 12:05 PM
It's not me. I would have put this online Bible up....

http://www.biblegateway.com/


Has most of the translations anyone has heard of and can search in any of them. I use it all the time. I don't know if it will talk for FAX though.



I did some looking and the site does indeed have an audio of the Bible.

Say, maybe I can lip-sinc the reading during my sermons that way I'll get all those pesky Old Testement names right.:)

luv
11-28-2006, 12:08 PM
It's not me. I would have put this online Bible up....

http://www.biblegateway.com/


Has most of the translations anyone has heard of and can search in any of them. I use it all the time. I don't know if it will talk for FAX though.
It's probably been 7 years since I listened to it, but I used to listen to Focus on the Family with James Dobson (I think that was his name). He started talking about how they were trying to come out with a genderless bible, and how he would support it. I stopped listening after that.

luv
11-28-2006, 12:10 PM
I did some looking and the site does indeed have an audio of the Bible.

Say, maybe I can lip-sinc the reading during my sermons that way I'll get all those pesky Old Testement names right.:)
I read the KJV (well, I used to) every year. The hardest part was the so-and-so begot so-and so begot so-and-so.

The lineage is very important though. In order to fulfill prophesy, Jesus had to come from a certain lineage and be in a certain generation, if I'm remembering correctly.

Jenson71
11-28-2006, 12:35 PM
Nice job Believer.


Keep in mind all, the essence of what is being said from language to language may use words differently. For example, I may say my car is maroon, but someone translating into spanish might say "Rojo" or Red. Are they wrong? Well, Marroon is a shade of red, but it's not the same color of red that comes to my mind.

Also understand the the scriptures often employ figures of speach to convey the importance of what is being said.

In this passage, by Jesus saying Hate your Mother, Father, Children, etc. IMO, He is expressing the level of love a person should have for the Lord and that it should be our strongest love - stronger than the love we have for even family members.

I'm more inclined to believe this, Pastor. During the translations and from memory there are different perceptions and words. I don't believe Jesus ever said "Hate your family".

Jenson71
11-28-2006, 12:38 PM
I read the KJV (well, I used to) every year. The hardest part was the so-and-so begot so-and so begot so-and-so.

The lineage is very important though. In order to fulfill prophesy, Jesus had to come from a certain lineage and be in a certain generation, if I'm remembering correctly.

Yeah. The savior of the Jews would be a descendent of David. Jesus' descendents are in Matthew and Luke. Although there are some differences. For instance, Luke goes all the way to Adam. Matthew goes to Abraham. And both show Jesus as a descendent not through Mary, but through Joseph.

FAX
11-28-2006, 12:51 PM
I'm more inclined to believe this, Pastor. During the translations and from memory there are different perceptions and words. I don't believe Jesus ever said "Hate your family".

It's interesting, Mr. Jenson71. This is a passage that's often used by Christian bashers to argue that the religion is hypocritical. Many biblical scholars counter with the "hyperbole" argument. Basically saying that Jesus is exaggerating in order to make a point.

Although I would always defer to Mr. PastorMikH in matters such as these, I think it's a fascinating topic. On the one hand, the passage opposes the commandment, "Honor Thy Father And Thy Mother". It's also very inconsistent with the charge to "love thine enemy".

On the other hand, it's thought-provoking to imagine that Jesus (who was always surprising) actually meant what he said. I seem to recall that the Greek word used in this phrase is literally translated as "hate" although I can't recall the word at this moment.

Is it possible that Jesus was challenging his followers to divorce themselves completely from all earthly attachments? From a spiritual perspective it would be like saying that, if you love God enough, your worldly relationships are minimized to the point that they are akin to hate. Given the later life experiences of the apostles, it seems they might have taken him at his word.

FAX

Jenson71
11-28-2006, 12:58 PM
On the other hand, it's thought-provoking to imagine that Jesus (who was always surprising) actually meant what he said. I seem to recall that the Greek word used in this phrase is literally translated as "hate" although I can't recall the word at this moment.

It makes you think hard. By the way, I did not post that passage, to bash Christianity, because I am a Catholic. I just wanted the discussion. That's interesting if it is literally translated to hate, and I don't know, hmm.

FAX
11-28-2006, 01:07 PM
It makes you think hard. By the way, I did not post that passage, to bash Christianity, because I am a Catholic. I just wanted the discussion. That's interesting if it is literally translated to hate, and I don't know, hmm.

Oh, I wasn't suggesting that you were bashing anyone or anything, Mr.Jenson71. Just commenting on the fact that many do.

I looked up the Greek, by the way. The word is, "miseo". Apparently, Jesus used this word a lot according to the Gospels. I'm beginning to wonder if there was a limitation in the Aramaic language that sponsored his repeated use of this word.

FAX

PastorMikH
11-28-2006, 01:15 PM
I'm more inclined to believe this, Pastor. During the translations and from memory there are different perceptions and words. I don't believe Jesus ever said "Hate your family".I've done a tad more research on this. The word "Hate" used in this passage is the Greek word http://www.blueletterbible.org/bg/gs155.gifhttp://www.blueletterbible.org/bg/gs151.gifhttp://www.blueletterbible.org/bg/gs163.gifhttp://www.blueletterbible.org/bg/gs145.gifhttp://www.blueletterbible.org/bg/gs167.gif (miseo - from a primary misos wich is translated hatred) with the following meaning(s): to hate, pursue with hatred, detest

In the case of this passage, in translating either Hate can be used or Detest. Both give the same essence to the passage that I first stated that Jesus is trying to emphasis the importance of our love for God being higher than our love for anyone (or anything) else. I do not think He is actually telling us we must hate people because that would be in direct violation to His teachings on love. I think He used the word "hate" to emphasis what He was saying.

Kinda like saying, "I used to love to watch Priest Holmes, but now that I have been watching LJ, I really hate to think of watching Priest run again."

chagrin
11-28-2006, 01:25 PM
I have to say, usually by now the resident you know who's would be all over this thread, bashing away - which is why I think believe is someone else, a veteran planeteer, because they seem to have "juice" or it could just be the Holy Spirit (a joke but not a negative one).

I am happy to see some positive discussion on christianity, without it having to be a friggin debate as to if God does or doesn't exist. Seriously, there is enough negative christian/jesus talk already and it's a breath of fresh air to see this going on and it being a friendly discussion. Sometimes people want to talk positively without entertaining offensive or anti-jesus talk.

Anyway, if this thing keeps going, I will probably join in the discussion - I have all kinds of stuff I would like to discuss from the bible - but I am going to watch for a bit until I think it's "safe" heh.

FAX
11-28-2006, 01:47 PM
Just did a quick search against the Aramaic lexicon ... not comprehensive by any means ... still ...

No results for the words "like" or "dislike". There are, however, results for "love" and "hate" and "despise". It may well be that the limitations of the language caused Jesus' choice of word in this passage.

Interesting if it pans out to be true.

FAX

DMAC
11-28-2006, 01:59 PM
One thing that I have always found to be a good stimulating conversation is :

When you become a "Born Again Christian", does that secure your trip to heaven, or can that be taken away by the way you live your life.

There are many that say you can "fall away". I find that hard to believe.

You can think of it as this, say when you become "Born Again", God reserves you a mansion by putting a plaque with your name on the door. When you sin, or fall away, does he take your name off the door? Then you come back and He sticks it back up there?

Thoughts?

FAX
11-28-2006, 02:06 PM
One thing that I have always found to be a good stimulating conversation is :

When you become a "Born Again Christian", does that secure your trip to heaven, or can that be taken away by the way you live your life.

There are many that say you can "fall away". I find that hard to believe.

You can think of it as this, say when you become "Born Again", God reserves you a mansion by putting a plaque with your name on the door. When you sin, or fall away, does he take your name off the door? Then you come back and He sticks it back up there?

Thoughts?

LMAO

Let me know when you get this one figured out, Mr. DMAC. Major clue to eternal happiness, here.

I have a feeling though, that we operate under a somewhat watered down version of "born again" compared to what Jesus was describing to Nicodemus.

FAX

DMAC
11-28-2006, 02:08 PM
LMAO

Let me know when you get this one figured out, Mr. DMAC. Major clue to eternal happiness, here.

I have a feeling though, that we operate under a somewhat watered down version of "born again" compared to what Jesus was describing to Nicodemus.

FAXI am not trying to figure it out Mr. FAX, just looking for peoples opinions, that's all.

It is interesting to think about.

SquirrellyBastard
11-28-2006, 02:16 PM
One thing that I have always found to be a good stimulating conversation is :

When you become a "Born Again Christian", does that secure your trip to heaven, or can that be taken away by the way you live your life.

There are many that say you can "fall away". I find that hard to believe.

You can think of it as this, say when you become "Born Again", God reserves you a mansion by putting a plaque with your name on the door. When you sin, or fall away, does he take your name off the door? Then you come back and He sticks it back up there?

Thoughts?



My understanding is that it cannot be taken away. While we will always sin, our faith will change us in ways to guide us away from a sinful nature.

Do you sin after becoming a "born again Christian"? Yes, it is the fall of man, passed on to us from Adam. Your faith will allow you to recognize the sins you commit and you'll realize that you need to repent of that sin.

PastorMikH
11-28-2006, 02:35 PM
One thing that I have always found to be a good stimulating conversation is :

When you become a "Born Again Christian", does that secure your trip to heaven, or can that be taken away by the way you live your life.

There are many that say you can "fall away". I find that hard to believe.

You can think of it as this, say when you become "Born Again", God reserves you a mansion by putting a plaque with your name on the door. When you sin, or fall away, does he take your name off the door? Then you come back and He sticks it back up there?

Thoughts?


I do not believe a person can have their salvation taken away. However, IMO, just because a person becomes a "Born Again Christian" doesn't mean they have no further say in their eternal condition. We are given a free moral will. After salvation, we still have a free moral will to do as we please - to serve the Lord or turn away. God will not "Take" our salvation away from us, but we have the choice to continue to follow the Lord or turn away and put our Salvation down.

I heard it explained like this once. You are in water and Jesus is in the boat. He isn't going to let go of your hand, but you have the choice to let go of His hand if you want.


This is an area however that varies widely. You will find opinions falling all over between the two extreme views of Calvinism and Armemiesm. (Been several, several years since theology classes. If I remember right, Calvinist believe that only certain people are chosen by God for salvation and nothing can keep them from heaven while others who have not been chosen cannot go to heaven regardless of what they do. Armeniesm views salvation as something you cannot be sure of until you stand before the Lord on judgement day)

FAX
11-28-2006, 02:47 PM
I am not trying to figure it out Mr. FAX, just looking for peoples opinions, that's all.

It is interesting to think about.

It's a big time puzzler for me, Mr. DMAC. That's all I was saying.

Great explanation, Mr. PastorMikH. The verse that always comes to my mind on this question is John 8:11, "... And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."

My interpretation is that He forgives her but charges that she depart from sin entirely and forever.

That's tough for people.

FAX

Lzen
11-28-2006, 03:26 PM
One thing that I have always found to be a good stimulating conversation is :

When you become a "Born Again Christian", does that secure your trip to heaven, or can that be taken away by the way you live your life.

There are many that say you can "fall away". I find that hard to believe.

You can think of it as this, say when you become "Born Again", God reserves you a mansion by putting a plaque with your name on the door. When you sin, or fall away, does he take your name off the door? Then you come back and He sticks it back up there?

Thoughts?

I believe that your salvation cannot be taken away. Once you have accepted Jesus as your lord and savior, you are saved. When Jesus died on the cross, it wasn't just for our previous sins. It was for our past sins, our present sins, and our future sins. For all that are willing to accept that.

Nightwish
11-28-2006, 05:28 PM
I believe that your salvation cannot be taken away. Once you have accepted Jesus as your lord and savior, you are saved. When Jesus died on the cross, it wasn't just for our previous sins. It was for our past sins, our present sins, and our future sins. For all that are willing to accept that.
So you're saying that I've earned my entry into the "Kingdom of Heaven" because I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior when I was a teenager (not just going through the motions, but it was deep and heartfelt at the time), despite the fact that some years later I came to the conclusion that it was all a myth and have spent much of the last 20 years as a practicing Wiccan and am currently an avowed Agnostic with pagan leanings? If I were to die tomorrow, what do you think my reward would be?

DMAC
11-28-2006, 05:45 PM
So you're saying that I've earned my entry into the "Kingdom of Heaven" because I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior when I was a teenager (not just going through the motions, but it was deep and heartfelt at the time), despite the fact that some years later I came to the conclusion that it was all a myth and have spent much of the last 20 years as a practicing Wiccan and am currently an avowed Agnostic with pagan leanings? If I were to die tomorrow, what do you think my reward would be?This is where it gets puzzling.

I believe that it can not be taken away, except for one way...if you turn your back on Him and denounce your "being Saved".

I am sure that God would welcome you back with open arms though...if you even need to be welcomed back.

Nightwish
11-28-2006, 05:54 PM
This is where it gets puzzling.

I believe that it can not be taken away, except for one way...if you turn your back on Him and denounce your "being Saved".

I am sure that God would welcome you back with open arms though...if you even need to be welcomed back.
I didn't denounce my "being saved," per se. I just eventually stopped believing in it. I've always loved and believed in God, as Wiccans also love God (they just personify Him/Her/It/Them) differently. I still do. I just stopped believing in the literality of Jesus being God incarnate, any moreso than any other man is. I treasure the story of Jesus and the values it represents, but I don't believe in the mythical aspect of it. So I'm not so much a denouncer as a lamb who strayed not only from the Christian path, but strayed onto another path that seemed (and still seems) to make more sense. I didn't adopt any ideas that necessarily go against what I had believed as a Christian, in fact, Wicca makes no judgement about Jesus one way or the other. Plenty of Wiccans believe in Jesus in the same way Christians do (they call themselves Christian Wiccans, Christo-Wiccans, Christo-Pagans, and so on). I'm just one of the "the jury is still out" fold.

FAX
11-28-2006, 05:58 PM
This is where it gets puzzling.

I believe that it can not be taken away, except for one way...if you turn your back on Him and denounce your "being Saved".

I am sure that God would welcome you back with open arms though...if you even need to be welcomed back.

Both you and Mr. Lzen are raising extremely interesting points, Mr. DMAC. The real question to me is, "Are there limits to grace?"

I think there are not. However, the mortal must desire and take action to receive grace. As Mr. PastorMikH points out. God's hand is always there. We have to reach for it.

Such a concept as infinite grace is beyond my comprehension, however.

FAX

old_geezer
11-28-2006, 06:20 PM
Just my opinion:

Ephesians 2:8 says "By grace are you saved through faith. It is a gift of God, not of works, least any man should boast."

To me that says that faith in Christ and his redeeming love is what saved us and keeps on saving us. If we continue to believe in Christ and his teachings we remain "saved by grace" due to our repentance of sins we have committed and His saving grace. (We don't willfully sin but we do regret it when we do - human nature)

I am one who believes that salvation can be lost. Christ will never take it away from us but we give it up of our own violation when we walk away from His grace and/or no longer believe in His teachings. (i.e., we do what is right in our own eyes)

Sorry to be so long-winded, but Christianity really doesn't have many "easy" answers.

Believer
11-28-2006, 07:58 PM
What a great discussion! I feel blessed to hear what you all have to say. My take on it is that Jesus Christ paid the penalty for all our sins, past, present, and future, with His blood,and that as Paul talks about in Romans, we are freed from the law of sin and are a new creation. This means to me that just as our good works dont give us Salvation, conversely, we dont "work" our way out of our Salvation either. Otherwise, what was Jesus death for, if commiting a sin could cost us Salvation? It would be saying that Jesus death on the cross wasnt good enough.
Once we have Repented of our sin, accepted Christs death on the Cross as payment of our sin, believe He is the Son of God, and that He resurrected 3 days later, we are no longer condemned by the law. If we remain in the law of sin, then we can never measure up. Acceptance of Christ releases us from that.
Now to do a pre-emptive rebuttal to the question "Does that mean then I can Sin and get away with it?" - In a word, no.
We do not "get away" with Sin. But we arent condemned by it either and do not lose our Salvation. Acceptance of Jesus Christ changes our heart so that sin is not acceptable to us anymore. Being human, we will fail, but we dont park in sin anymore. As our Pastor likes to say, we dont change by getting better, we change by allowing God to become bigger in our hearts. And when He becomes bigger in our hearts we will be the people God meant for us to be.
The Holy Spirit doesnt let us sin without feeling convicted by it. Then we go to God for forgiveness.
And like the loving Father He is, he corrects us.
But the bondage of Sin, the slavery of Sin, is over. We are Free.
Charles Stanley does a great job talking on this subject.

As for the fallen, that is always a tough question for me. My take is that the Bible said that the only unforgivenable sin is "blasphamy of Holy Spirit", which to me, means basically the public denouncement. But even with that, that God will take us back in a minute if we come to Him with Repentance.
I dont know for certain, nor do any of us, about our interpretations. I do try to have any humble opinions I might have on these topics based solely on what the Bible says.
And the Bible teaches that we cannot be seperated from Him, save for that one example. This is Gods promise.
I dont believe in purgetory, and again, as Charles Stanley says, Christ paid it all, what was His blood for if not?
I do think there is also a level of reward for the life we lead in Christ and for the fruits that grow from us.
A friend of mine puts it this way of a Saved person who leads an unfruitful life. He'll still get to Heaven, but its like if you have a party at your house. He gets in the front door, but he might have to stand in the entry way. Works do matter.
But they dont determine Salvation. We are Justified by Faith.

Just my interpretation.

listopencil
11-28-2006, 09:03 PM
I prefer the Skeptics Annotated Bible webpage.


http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

Nightwish
11-28-2006, 09:29 PM
Unequivocally, the best version of the Bible is this one (http://klv.mrklingon.org/). Yes, it does provide translations!

Dave Lane
11-28-2006, 09:45 PM
9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

Dave Lane
11-28-2006, 09:46 PM
And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Dave Lane
11-28-2006, 09:47 PM
And if a man shall lie with a woman having her sickness, and shall uncover her nakedness; he hath discovered her fountain, and she hath uncovered the fountain of her blood: and both of them shall be cut off from among their people.

Dave Lane
11-28-2006, 09:49 PM
18For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,

19Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded,

20Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;

21No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.

Dave Lane
11-28-2006, 09:54 PM
But if ye will not hearken unto me, and will not do all these commandments;

And if ye shall despise my statutes, or if your soul abhor my judgments, so that ye will not do all my commandments, but that ye break my covenant:

I also will do this unto you; I will even appoint over you terror, consumption, and the burning ague, that shall consume the eyes, and cause sorrow of heart: and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.

And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.

And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass:

And your strength shall be spent in vain: for your land shall not yield her increase, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruits.

And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins.

I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate.

And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me;

Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.

And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall avenge the quarrel of my covenant: and when ye are gathered together within your cities, I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.

And when I have broken the staff of your bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver you your bread again by weight: and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied.

And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me;

Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.

And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.

And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.

And I will make your cities waste, and bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours.

And I will bring the land into desolation: and your enemies which dwell therein shall be astonished at it.

Dave Lane
11-28-2006, 09:58 PM
Just my interpretation.


I think you are completely insane but hey thats just my interpretation.

Dave

SLAG
11-28-2006, 10:32 PM
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides with the
iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed
is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the
weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his
brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will
strike down upon those with great vengeance and with furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know that my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."

Dave Lane
11-28-2006, 10:52 PM
"The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides with the
iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed
is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the
weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his
brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will
strike down upon those with great vengeance and with furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know that my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee."


Love that one ROFL!!!

Dave

Believer
11-29-2006, 05:20 AM
Yet whats important to be said, is that all those things mentioned above are wiped away clean by the blood of Jesus.
By the law man can never be good enough, but through Jesus Christ all sin is forgiven.

Have a blessed day.

chagrin
11-29-2006, 05:27 AM
And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.


Dave Lane, other than simply being a prick - what is your point exactly? You odn't believe, right? So isn't it time for you to exit this thread now that you have made the point, assuming that's it - and have contribute more of your educational insight in the lounge?

chagrin
11-29-2006, 05:30 AM
So you're saying that I've earned my entry into the "Kingdom of Heaven" because I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior when I was a teenager (not just going through the motions, but it was deep and heartfelt at the time), despite the fact that some years later I came to the conclusion that it was all a myth and have spent much of the last 20 years as a practicing Wiccan and am currently an avowed Agnostic with pagan leanings? If I were to die tomorrow, what do you think my reward would be?


I tell you what, Nightwish - anyone who outs themselves like you just did, is obviously still searching for that ever elusive inner peace. I am glad that you think that boldly proclaiming that for 20 years you have practiced WICCA, making you a WICCAN, but also an Agnostic (which is almost a total contradiction) will somewhow prove God doesn't exist, but I will pray for you, I wish you the best, and hope you find happiness dude :)

FAX
11-29-2006, 06:34 AM
Dave Lane, other than simply being a prick - what is your point exactly? You odn't believe, right? So isn't it time for you to exit this thread now that you have made the point, assuming that's it - and have contribute more of your educational insight in the lounge?

LMAO

I think this thread has been invaded by Levites, Mr. chagrin.

FAX

Dave Lane
11-29-2006, 06:36 AM
<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/WiDXiJmUnVE"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/WiDXiJmUnVE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

Heres a contribution....

Dave

FAX
11-29-2006, 06:52 AM
Hey, Mr. Dave Lane.

I'm authentically curious, now. What is your goal in respect to your posts on this thread? It's a serious question and I would greatly appreciate a sincere response.

Thanks.

FAX

PastorMikH
11-29-2006, 07:32 AM
Well, the thread was good while it lasted. The problem I have with religious discussions on here is you can't seem to have a serious discussion without someone trying to jerk everyone's chains.


The discussion did last longer than I expected though for what it's worth.

foxman
11-29-2006, 07:55 AM
This with a few blemishes has been as good a religeous discussion as any I have come across on the web.

I havent really made a statement of fact other than my brief approval of the one post Believer made.

I am saved. Blood washed, born again and have been for roughly 24 years.

I believe the bible is Gods holy word and Prayer, reading the Bible, circumstances and through meditation God speaks to us.

I sin, I sin everyday and have never pretended to be perfect. I recognized that God loved me regardless of my iniquities and trust me when I say that when he reached down, he had to reach WAY down to reach me. I was scum, and am not worthy of his grace. That's what is so fantastic about our salvation. We can not comprehend Gods grace or the depth of his love for us.

For the record, I believe that once your saved your saved and that final. In the case of turning your back on God, well I think that we will all stand before God on judgement day and have reap what we have sewn. Once I was saved I became a new person just as the Bibles says. That doesnt mean that I was free from temptation and as a weak person I yielded to many a temptation that was purely sinful. Some of those things I am most unproud of and yet by Grace I am forgiven for those things. As a Christian one of the biggest challenges is to leave the sin at the alter. I mean truely leave it there and not continue to beat yourself up over your sins. The Bibles says our sins are sperated as far as the East is from the West.....thats a long way.

Parts of this thread have really lifted me up as I am facing some difficulties.

Thanks.

Lzen
11-29-2006, 09:13 AM
This with a few blemishes has been as good a religeous discussion as any I have come across on the web.

I havent really made a statement of fact other than my brief approval of the one post Believer made.

I am saved. Blood washed, born again and have been for roughly 24 years.

I believe the bible is Gods holy word and Prayer, reading the Bible, circumstances and through meditation God speaks to us.

I sin, I sin everyday and have never pretended to be perfect. I recognized that God loved me regardless of my iniquities and trust me when I say that when he reached down, he had to reach WAY down to reach me. I was scum, and am not worthy of his grace. That's what is so fantastic about our salvation. We can not comprehend Gods grace or the depth of his love for us.

For the record, I believe that once your saved your saved and that final. In the case of turning your back on God, well I think that we will all stand before God on judgement day and have reap what we have sewn. Once I was saved I became a new person just as the Bibles says. That doesnt mean that I was free from temptation and as a weak person I yielded to many a temptation that was purely sinful. Some of those things I am most unproud of and yet by Grace I am forgiven for those things. As a Christian one of the biggest challenges is to leave the sin at the alter. I mean truely leave it there and not continue to beat yourself up over your sins. The Bibles says our sins are sperated as far as the East is from the West.....thats a long way.

Parts of this thread have really lifted me up as I am facing some difficulties.

Thanks.


Great post.

ZepSinger
11-29-2006, 09:29 AM
This with a few blemishes has been as good a religeous discussion as any I have come across on the web.

I havent really made a statement of fact other than my brief approval of the one post Believer made.

I am saved. Blood washed, born again and have been for roughly 24 years.

I believe the bible is Gods holy word and Prayer, reading the Bible, circumstances and through meditation God speaks to us.

I sin, I sin everyday and have never pretended to be perfect. I recognized that God loved me regardless of my iniquities and trust me when I say that when he reached down, he had to reach WAY down to reach me. I was scum, and am not worthy of his grace. That's what is so fantastic about our salvation. We can not comprehend Gods grace or the depth of his love for us.

For the record, I believe that once your saved your saved and that final. In the case of turning your back on God, well I think that we will all stand before God on judgement day and have reap what we have sewn. Once I was saved I became a new person just as the Bibles says. That doesnt mean that I was free from temptation and as a weak person I yielded to many a temptation that was purely sinful. Some of those things I am most unproud of and yet by Grace I am forgiven for those things. As a Christian one of the biggest challenges is to leave the sin at the alter. I mean truely leave it there and not continue to beat yourself up over your sins. The Bibles says our sins are sperated as far as the East is from the West.....thats a long way.

Parts of this thread have really lifted me up as I am facing some difficulties.

Thanks.

I could not agree with you more.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

listopencil
11-29-2006, 10:55 AM
This with a few blemishes has been as good a religeous discussion as any I have come across on the web.


The blemishes you refer to are points of dissent. It is the nature of Chiefs Planet that every thread started here is open to discussion and every point made is subject to counterpoint. There are subforums to help keep controversial and/or tedious topics off of the main page but this board as a whole is all about freedom of expression. If you wish to have a conversation with like-minded fellows on this particular subject I would suggest a heavily moderated biblical messageboard.

foxman
11-29-2006, 12:33 PM
The blemishes you refer to are points of dissent. It is the nature of Chiefs Planet that every thread started here is open to discussion and every point made is subject to counterpoint. There are subforums to help keep controversial and/or tedious topics off of the main page but this board as a whole is all about freedom of expression. If you wish to have a conversation with like-minded fellows on this particular subject I would suggest a heavily moderated biblical messageboard.

True enough....but the beauty is that I was able to share an opinion with some like minded folks on a Chiefs message board....perhaps the best of both worlds.

I didnt mind the "points of dissent" at all for the record and am fully aware that every thread is "open to discussion" and have a lot of respect for your right to dissagree with me.

I think you took what I was saying wrong, but I am cool, no worries here.

Dave Lane
11-29-2006, 02:21 PM
Hey, Mr. Dave Lane.

I'm authentically curious, now. What is your goal in respect to your posts on this thread? It's a serious question and I would greatly appreciate a sincere response.

Thanks.

FAX


To show some of the more arcane and crazy bits of the bible. Really the thing is such a sham and farce as to make me feel physically ill for those involved. I imagine I feel about religion as RWNJs feel about homosexuals.

And in reality they are both the same to me. Don't tell me what you are doing and don't try to convert me and we will be just fine. Really this thread has no place here, maybe DC, just go to some xtian BB where you can all get a great big circle jerk.

I'd say the same thing to a discussion of homosexual activities on a football BB.

Dave

phisherman
11-29-2006, 02:25 PM
well said! i respect someone's right to worship, but this is the media planet forum, not the jesus forum

please, i know you think you're doing the righteous thing by exposing us to christian music, but all it does for me personally is remind me why i always thought that christian music was TERRIBLE

FAX
11-29-2006, 02:30 PM
To show some of the more arcane and crazy bits of the bible. Really the thing is such a sham and farce as to make me feel physically ill for those involved. I imagine I feel about religion as RWNJs feel about homosexuals.

And in reality they are both the same to me. Don't tell me what you are doing and don't try to convert me and we will be just fine. Really this thread has no place here, maybe DC, just go to some xtian BB where you can all get a great big circle jerk.

I'd say the same thing to a discussion of homosexual activities on a football BB.

Dave

LMAO

Thanks.

You're drawing a lot of conclusions here, Mr. Dave Lane. You have no idea what I'm doing. And JSYK, I've never attempted to convert anyone to anything in my life and would certainly not start here. As for having no place on this board, I suppose you could say the same thing about any number of thread topics.

Thanks for providing some insight into the way your mind works, however.

FAX

FAX
11-29-2006, 02:32 PM
well said! i respect someone's right to worship, but this is the media planet forum, not the jesus forum

please, i know you think you're doing the righteous thing by exposing us to christian music, but all it does for me personally is remind me why i always thought that christian music was TERRIBLE

LMAO

Stick around, Mr. phisherman. We're all going to sing "When The Moon Hits Your Eye" at 7:00.

FAX

phisherman
11-29-2006, 02:37 PM
ok, who's going to start up the Bible Planet sub-forum?

QuikSsurfer
11-29-2006, 02:53 PM
seriously.. get this shit off the media forum

listopencil
11-29-2006, 03:17 PM
LMAO

Thanks.

You're drawing a lot of conclusions here, Mr. Dave Lane. You have no idea what I'm doing. And JSYK, I've never attempted to convert anyone to anything in my life and would certainly not start here. As for having no place on this board, I suppose you could say the same thing about any number of thread topics.

Thanks for providing some insight into the way your mind works, however.

FAX



So, Believer is another one of your user names then?

Nightwish
11-29-2006, 04:43 PM
I tell you what, Nightwish - anyone who outs themselves like you just did, is obviously still searching for that ever elusive inner peace.Everyone is still searching for that ever elusive inner peace. Nobody, not even the most devout practitioner of Zen has found it completely. I'm not sure I want to find it completely. Inner conflict is what keeps us motivated. Inner peace motivates nothing.
I am glad that you think that boldly proclaiming that for 20 years you have practiced WICCA, making you a WICCAN, but also an Agnostic (which is almost a total contradiction) will somewhow prove God doesn't existI think this is the second time now that you've equated my openness about being a non-Christian with some kind of non-belief in God. Where is that coming from? I believe in God, as most Wiccans and Pagans do, and have said as much many times. I just don't personify God in the same way you do. God doesn't describe Him/Her/Itself to us in every nitty gritty detail - that's left to us to fill in the blanks. Christians fill in those blanks one way, we fill them in another way, and there's no knowing for certain if any of us is even in the ballpark.
but I will pray for you, I wish you the best, and hope you find happiness dude :)Thank you. I'll pray for the same for you, too.
for 20 years you have practiced WICCA, making you a WICCAN, but also an Agnostic (which is almost a total contradiction)Actually, my comment was that for most of the past 20 years, I've practiced Wicca, but now I'm an avowed Agnostic with pagan leanings. In other words, in the last couple of years, I've stepped away from doctrinal Wicca, dissatisfied with the fiction that is so often propped up as the actual histories of Wicca, Gardner, and so on. But the spiritual heart of Wicca and most generic neopaganism is still a beautiful thing, and I still identify with that. I'm what some people call a "soft agnostic" or "weak agnostic," meaning that I believe in God, I just don't believe in the manmade myths that dominate most religions (including Christianity and Wicca both), and I don't believe that any one religion has come close to being able to claim exclusivity on Truth. That is different from "hard agnosticism," or "strong agnosticism," the adherents of which sway neither toward nor away from a belief in God or a god, believing instead that such things are ultimately unknowable. While I agree with them that they are ultimately unknowable, at least in this frame of existence, I nonetheless lean strongly toward a belief in some kind of Creator. Often, when somebody hears that somebody is Agnostic, they assume (often incorrectly) that they have no belief one way or the other about God, or they assume (always incorrectly) that they believe God doesn't exist (that's Atheism, not Agnosticism).

CHENZ A!
11-30-2006, 12:07 AM
Holy Mary mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death.

Ultra Peanut
11-30-2006, 05:24 AM
Buddhists are pretty awesome. Their entire belief system is basically, "be nice, maaaaan," and they actually adhere to it.

Oh, and this (http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_teachings_of_jesus/on_self-mutilation/mt05_29a.html) is amazing.

chagrin
11-30-2006, 05:49 AM
.
Thank you. I'll pray for the same for you, too.


One thing I want to clarify, I did not mean to infer that being a Christian means total happiness at all, in case it did - hard to tell with typed words sometimes. God knows I am far from being "happy" and certainly appreciate any prayers or well wishes, for sure.