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RedThat
12-10-2006, 05:02 PM
What are your thoughts?

Personally, I think he's an inconsistent DE. Probowl potential? No way. I dont see it. Not even close.

He looks good at times. But at times, he gets owned! And I mean owned.

*And another thing, is it just me? But he doesn't show up to play on the road.

I wouldn't re-build my defense around him.

Mr. Laz
12-10-2006, 05:04 PM
no ...... he's just a better DE than we've had in years so everyone gets excited.

Mecca
12-10-2006, 05:05 PM
He's a complimentary end, he's not a Taylor or a Peppers or a Freeney. He's wildly inconsistent, his stats look good 10-12 sacks but if you didn't watch all the games you don't realize he got all of them in 4-5 games and didn't show up in the rest.

KcMizzou
12-10-2006, 05:05 PM
I dont think he dominant, but he's a bright spot on a pretty bad line. Some talent (any talent!) in the middle would help him greatly.

blueballs
12-10-2006, 05:06 PM
a little help from the middle couldn't hurt

TrickyNicky
12-10-2006, 05:06 PM
He's solid at worst, and Pro Bowl caliber on his game. I'll take that kind of inconsistency any day.

God of Thunder
12-10-2006, 05:07 PM
I think he's just decent, and a bit over-rated.

boogblaster
12-10-2006, 05:08 PM
he's a quality DE in case you didn't notice the LT for Ravens is 6'8" 375lbs..that was alot of man blocking Allen today....

Mecca
12-10-2006, 05:09 PM
He's solid at worst, and Pro Bowl caliber on his game. I'll take that kind of inconsistency any day.

I don't believe he's a Pro Bowl caliber end.....he's closer to Aaron Schobel than Jason Taylor.

RedThat
12-10-2006, 05:09 PM
I dont even think it's just Jared Allen.

Even Tamba Hali. Both, very flashy DE's. I like them, but I think they need to be more consistent. But neither imo, are probowl players, and probably never will be.

StcChief
12-10-2006, 05:11 PM
Beef up the DTs and I could be a different story.

He was going nowhere against Ogden today.

I did see a nice tackle (by Ogden).....

the Talking Can
12-10-2006, 05:12 PM
Freeney is a highway...and he gets blanked by LTs a lot...Allen is better against the run than Freeney and frankly has been better than Freeney this year...

if we had a penetrating DT then Allen would be a prowbowler....

RedThat
12-10-2006, 05:13 PM
He's solid at worst, and Pro Bowl caliber on his game. I'll take that kind of inconsistency any day.

You would? You would take inconsistency?

Not saying he has to get a sack every game. But I dont see him apply pressure. Sometimes he just disappears.

I don't know about you? But Id rather have a reckless, consistent, DE that performs every game.

Mecca
12-10-2006, 05:13 PM
Freeney owns Ogden.....Allen well...

RedThat
12-10-2006, 05:16 PM
He's a complimentary end, he's not a Taylor or a Peppers or a Freeney. He's wildly inconsistent, his stats look good 10-12 sacks but if you didn't watch all the games you don't realize he got all of them in 4-5 games and didn't show up in the rest.

I agree with your post Mecca. He is inconsistent, bigtime. Jared Allen is the kind of player that can show an example of how stats don't mean anything sometimes.

the Talking Can
12-10-2006, 05:17 PM
Freeney owns Ogden.....Allen well...

and Roaf owned Freeney...yet he still went to the probowl...and Freeney is as bad against the run as any DE in the league

if Freeney is a prowbowl DE then Allen can be one too...

Mecca
12-10-2006, 05:18 PM
and Roaf owned Freeney...yet he still went to the probowl...and Freeney is as bad against the run as any DE in the league

if Freeney is a prowbowl DE then Allen can be one too...

You have to show up every single week and look like a dominant force to be a Pro Bowl end. Freeney did that at a time he's having a down year this year. There are several times a year when Allen becomes invisible and it's not always against a great Tackle...

RedThat
12-10-2006, 05:20 PM
and Roaf owned Freeney...yet he still went to the probowl...and Freeney is as bad against the run as any DE in the league

if Freeney is a prowbowl DE then Allen can be one too...

Sometimes players can be a little overhyped. Remember, sometimes names get more recognition. Like, Ty Law last year.

He got 10 picks, but really he is an average CB now.

ferrarispider95
12-10-2006, 05:21 PM
Atleast Allen is a player though, he doesn't give up and shows a lot of heart of the field.

If we had a solid DT, he would have more numbers, but he is tough against the run. Also, Ogden is a beast of a man.

We need a couple space eaters in the middle and both hali and allen would look even better.

cdcox
12-10-2006, 05:23 PM
Sometimes players can be a little overhyped. Remember, sometimes names get more recognition. Like, Ty Law last year.

He got 10 picks, but really he is an average CB now.

If I remember correctly, you were one of the guys pimping Law the most.

If everyone played their position at least as well as Jared Allen, we'd be going to the Super Bowl.

the Talking Can
12-10-2006, 05:23 PM
You have to show up every single week and look like a dominant force to be a Pro Bowl end. Freeney did that at a time he's having a down year this year. There are several times a year when Allen becomes invisible and it's not always against a great Tackle...

Freeney has had the luxury of playing with a lead most of the time thanks to Peyton, he could afford to just hunt the QB...

this year is a different story...and the point stands that he is absolutely embarrassing against the run.....

the Talking Can
12-10-2006, 05:24 PM
Sometimes players can be a little overhyped. Remember, sometimes names get more recognition. Like, Ty Law last year.

He got 10 picks, but really he is an average CB now.

that makes no sense at all

KCinNY
12-10-2006, 05:24 PM
Decent pass rusher.

Nothing special.

Mecca
12-10-2006, 05:25 PM
Freeney has had the luxury of playing with a lead most of the time thanks to Peyton, he could afford to just hunt the QB...

this year is a different story...and the point stands that he is absolutely embarrassing against the run.....

Well running at Freeney is the best way to attack him because he's undersized and can be pretty much blocked out of plays by big tackles on runs.

They take 3 ends.......You'd have a hard time convincing me that Allen is close to the top 3 in this conference.

KcMizzou
12-10-2006, 05:27 PM
I forgot that here on Chiefsplanet it's "dominate force" not "dominant force".

RedThat
12-10-2006, 05:31 PM
If I remember correctly, you were one of the guys pimping Law the most.

If everyone played their position at least as well as Jared Allen, we'd be going to the Super Bowl.

I did pimp Law last year, and I'll admit, his play is declining.

If everyone played like Jared Allen, we would have an inconsistent defense. Inconsistent defenses dont win.

the Talking Can
12-10-2006, 05:37 PM
Well running at Freeney is the best way to attack him because he's undersized and can be pretty much blocked out of plays by big tackles on runs.

They take 3 ends.......You'd have a hard time convincing me that Allen is close to the top 3 in this conference.

well, according to NFL.com

sacks/tackles

Taylor - 10.5/24
Schobel - 9.5/26
Pryce - 8.5/24
Geathers - 8.5/20
Mathis - 8.5/43
Freeney - 2.5/18 (injured?)
Allen - 6.5/52


He is close. And he plays the run well (more importantly, he has improved year to year), especially compared to some of those guys. And he plays with mediocre DTs.

Look at Pryce...that guy is a product of the Ravens D.

All

Kerberos
12-10-2006, 05:38 PM
I dont even think it's just Jared Allen.

Even Tamba Hali. Both, very flashy DE's. I like them, but I think they need to be more consistent. But neither imo, are probowl players, and probably never will be.


That is a pretty DUMBASS statement about a ROOKIE DE.

I would take more merit to your assumption had the man had more than 3/4 of 1 full season under his belt.

To write him off before he even gets a chance to play with some DECENT DT's to take off some of the pressure is assnine.

You may be right and he and Allen may never be probowl material but I think we need to give the young Hali a small break ... He's a Rookie for christ sake.

:shake:


.

the Talking Can
12-10-2006, 05:43 PM
oops, I left off Burgess

10 sacks/33

anyways, its mute...the Chiefs will keep him...

Mecca
12-10-2006, 05:45 PM
Pryce beat the ever loving shit out of us when he played on the Broncos.......

ChiefsCountry
12-10-2006, 05:48 PM
You would? You would take inconsistency?

Not saying he has to get a sack every game. But I dont see him apply pressure. Sometimes he just disappears.


Sounds like Derrick Thomas.

scott free
12-10-2006, 05:49 PM
He is when he isnt being double/tripled teamed & clutched & grabbed at every turn.

If the Easter bunny somehow drops a playmaker DT on us next year, he could be a consistent Pro-Bowler easily.

Jared & Tamba should be bookends for 10 years. I'm fine with that.

RedThat
12-10-2006, 05:50 PM
that makes no sense at all

It's called the name thing.

Aren't we the fans the ones that vote for players to go to the probowl?

Sometimes you see a guys name pop up, you look at his stats, he puts up numbers, automatically some people think he is good. So they'll vote for him to go to the Probowl.

When in all actuality, you watch the guy play, he is not as good.

What Im saying is, their are certain players that get recognition for their names, stats. but their not as good when you watch them play. I was using Ty Law as an example. His name, and his numbers looked good last year. And so is his reputation. But honestly, is he a probowl CB anymore? probably not.

the Talking Can
12-10-2006, 05:54 PM
It's called the name thing.

Aren't we the fans the ones that vote for players to go to the probowl?

Sometimes you see a guys name pop up, you look at his stats, he puts up numbers, automatically some people think he is good. So they'll vote for him to go to the Probowl.

When in all actuality, you watch the guy play, he is not as good.

What Im saying is, their are certain players that get recognition for their names, stats. but their not as good when you watch them play. I was using Ty Law as an example. His name, and his numbers looked good last year. And so is his reputation. But honestly, is he a probowl CB anymore? probably not.

Law has a "name" because he was the best CB in the league and won a couple of superbowls while humiliating Manning in the process.

No one knows who Allen is.

I still have no idea why you are comparing the two.

Skip Towne
12-10-2006, 06:00 PM
Allen's contract expires soon. We will get to see what the other teams think of him. I'll bet we have a fight on our hands to keep him.

KrazyKorean4
12-10-2006, 06:02 PM
He's a beast. Even if he's not playing at his best, he's still good, and when he's on his game, he's great. Not starting Pro Bowl calibur, but somewhere in there.

Iowanian
12-10-2006, 06:10 PM
If Allen spent as much time in the gym as he does in the bar........

RedThat
12-10-2006, 06:13 PM
Law has a "name" because he was the best CB in the league and won a couple of superbowls while humiliating Manning in the process.

No one knows who Allen is.

I still have no idea why you are comparing the two.

Not comparing Law to Allen.

You mentioned about Dwight Freeney, and how he still went to the probowl after being owned by Roaf. You also commented on how bad he is against the run. I agree with your statements.

That is why I said sometimes its about the name thing. Everybody in the league knows about Freeney. Maybe thats why he gets voted to the probowl. But I agree with you, I think he is a little overrated. I wouldnt classify him as a "Probowl DE". At least not this year. I think a lot of DE's around the league are better.

I was just using Ty Law as example how sometimes the names get the ticket to Honolulu.

morphius
12-10-2006, 06:18 PM
Allen may not be one of the top 3 DE's in the league, but he is well above average.

RedThat
12-10-2006, 06:22 PM
I just wonder what kind of contract Allen will demand?

If he wants multi-million dollars, long term deal, Id rather focus towards signing Tony G instead.

the Talking Can
12-10-2006, 06:26 PM
I just wonder what kind of contract Allen will demand?

If he wants multi-million dollars, long term deal, Id rather focus towards signing Tony G instead.

cast off a young DE averaging 10 sacks and almost 50 tackles in his first 3 years for a 30 year old TE?

that's how you'd build for the future?

Dark Horse
12-10-2006, 06:29 PM
Allen may not be one of the top 5 or 6 players at his position at getting to the Q.B. but I would argue that he is close as an all around D.E.

B_Ambuehl
12-10-2006, 10:01 PM
He's kind've a gimmick pass rusher in that he is one of the best at predicting the silent count. He gets all his sacks in home games when he can do that.

suds79
12-10-2006, 10:07 PM
What are your thoughts?

Personally, I think he's an inconsistent DE. Probowl potential? No way. I dont see it. Not even close.

He looks good at times. But at times, he gets owned! And I mean owned.

*And another thing, is it just me? But he doesn't show up to play on the road.

I wouldn't re-build my defense around him.

Wow well I couldn't disagree more.

I think he's clearly one of the top 5-6 DEs in the game.

But if you wouldn't re-build your defense around him. That's fine. So he wouldn't be your star player.

But he is by far the best defensive player on this team which means right now he's the last guy on D that should be replaced.

L.A. Chieffan
12-10-2006, 10:18 PM
Jared is constantly being double teamed and teams are game planning AWAY from Allen. Look at the film nearly every running play is either up the middle or at the opposite end of Allen. Plus he's probably the hardest worker we got on Defense, maybe the team.
Talk shit all you want about this team and how much they suck and how they have no heart, but those are things you defiinitly CAN'T say about JA.

el borracho
12-10-2006, 11:36 PM
I'm pretty happy with Allen but I wouldn't mind if the Chiefs drafted another DE early like the Giants did.

ferrarispider95
12-10-2006, 11:44 PM
I'm pretty happy with Allen but I wouldn't mind if the Chiefs drafted another DE early like the Giants did.

WE NEED A DT, but maybe free agency would be better than drafting another fat ass like sims

Chiefs Pantalones
12-10-2006, 11:48 PM
Allen is ok.

When the Ravens and Colts meet up, I see Freeney beat Ogden constantly, FWIW. Allen didn't have a good game, and had a slow first step from where I was watching.

CupidStunt
12-11-2006, 01:12 AM
Some of you knuckleheads are completely ignoring the fact there are but four or five DEs in football who play the run as well as Allen.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-11-2006, 01:32 AM
WE NEED A DT, but maybe free agency would be better than drafting another fat ass like sims

FA DTs have a high bust rate too. It's the hardest damned position to draft/sign. There are so many fat f*cks who get their money and don't give a damn because they don't really play for the love of the game.

morphius
12-11-2006, 05:12 AM
Allen is ok.

When the Ravens and Colts meet up, I see Freeney beat Ogden constantly, FWIW. Allen didn't have a good game, and had a slow first step from where I was watching.
Certain players and teams just match up better then others, I have seen a lot of games were Freeney was a non factor as well. Just like I can remember a lot of games when DT wasn't a factor. Sort of like TRich eating up Ray Lewis, and Bigfoot not.

donkhater
12-11-2006, 01:51 PM
Funny. I said virtually the same thing after week 2 and got my head ripped off. I guess the time to post questions about the hard-working-yet-average-talent DE's on this team is when the team is in the tank.

BTW, is Tamba Hali even on this team?

jidar
12-11-2006, 01:53 PM
I don't believe he's a Pro Bowl caliber end.....he's closer to Aaron Schobel than Jason Taylor.

yeah but the way you gauge Chiefs players they'd have to be the ****in all-madden team to get a nod from you.
I don't know if you haven't watched many other DEs or if you're just high all the time, but he's doing great. He is pro-bowl potential.

jidar
12-11-2006, 02:00 PM
I just wonder what kind of contract Allen will demand?

If he wants multi-million dollars, long term deal, Id rather focus towards signing Tony G instead.


**** that, we need to build a D. We sign them both

You're also going to find that Allen is probably the #1 FA DE this year and will command a lot of money on the open market.

Skip Towne
12-11-2006, 02:01 PM
Does anybody know Allen's 40 time? He is fast for a big guy.

Inspector
12-11-2006, 02:02 PM
oops, I left off Burgess

10 sacks/33

anyways, its mute...the Chiefs will keep him...

You are correct. I hear nothing.

Chiefnj
12-11-2006, 02:07 PM
Allen is good, he's not an elite player. Elite players wouldn't go sackless the last few games with the season on the line. Elite players step up.

jidar
12-11-2006, 02:09 PM
Funny. I said virtually the same thing after week 2 and got my head ripped off. I guess the time to post questions about the hard-working-yet-average-talent DE's on this team is when the team is in the tank.

BTW, is Tamba Hali even on this team?

well congrat-u-****ing-lations on being consistently retarded

CupidStunt
12-11-2006, 02:35 PM
Funny. I said virtually the same thing after week 2 and got my head ripped off. I guess the time to post questions about the hard-working-yet-average-talent DE's on this team is when the team is in the tank.


Except you're barking up the wrong tree.

Now, if you're looking for something that was spotted early, ridiculed, and has gradually been proven all year -- look no further than Patrick Surtain.

I'm only disappointed that I was gullible enough to believe the Ty Law mirage. I should've known he'd suck like Surtian, too.

HemiEd
12-11-2006, 03:03 PM
I'm only disappointed that I was gullible enough to believe the Ty Law mirage. I should've known he'd suck like Surtian, too.

You should pay better attention to Rufus Dawes.

Thig Lyfe
12-11-2006, 04:34 PM
If by owned you mean held on every play...

I think Jared Allen is developing into a real force. He and DJ are easily the best defensive players we have.

ChiefaRoo
12-11-2006, 04:53 PM
He is as good today as Eric Hicks was in his best year. That being he is a solid starter. Pro bowler? No.

jspchief
12-11-2006, 05:07 PM
Allen may not be one of the top 3 DE's in the league, but he is well above average.I agree. He's a very solid DE, probably top ten in the league. What he may lack in athleticism he makes up for in motor. And as was mentioned he gets no help from his DTs.

Is he great every game? No. But even guys like Strahan have had their bad days.

Allen is good. The people that are trying to bring him down are the same a-holes that never have anything good to say about the players on the team they claim to root for.

scott free
12-11-2006, 05:13 PM
Is Jared Allen really all that???


Lets put it this way...When the Wild-Man FINALLY gets done RAVAGING everyones wife and asks for a scotch......You DAMN well better pour!!!

The guy once roped a herd of rampaging bulls and rode'em through an Idaho tornado...

Count Zarth
12-11-2006, 05:20 PM
For whatever reason we've been in a sack slump for over a month now.

Raiderhader
12-11-2006, 05:44 PM
If by owned you mean held on every play...

Sure seems like, don't it? And that should speak volumes about ability.

I think Jared Allen is developing into a real force. He and DJ are easily the best defensive players we have.

Agreed.

FAX
12-11-2006, 05:47 PM
Is there room under the bus for everybody?

Our trainers couldn't wrap a bean burrito.

FAX

Bob Dole
12-11-2006, 05:55 PM
Allen is good, he's not an elite player. Elite players wouldn't go sackless the last few games with the season on the line. Elite players step up.

"Elite" players also get the holding against them called so the offense is forced to stop tackling them.

penchief
12-12-2006, 04:09 PM
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/playerrankings/regularseason/DL

The latest rankings. Not too shabby.

Defensive Linemen

PLAYER CURRENT LAST
WEEK CHNG SACK TKL SOLO FFUM SAFE
1. Jared Allen, KC 89.92 89.92 +0.00 6.5 66 52 2 0
2. Jason Taylor, MIA 86.77 82.50 +4.27 11.5 48 29 8 0
3. Julius Peppers, CAR 73.08 76.17 -3.09 11 53 39 3 0
4. Aaron Kampman, GB 72.15 74.33 -2.18 10.5 69 34 3 0
5. Leonard Little, STL 68.31 71.50 -3.19 10 47 39 5 0
6. Trent Cole, PHI 68.00 73.17 -5.17 8 58 37 1 0
7. Bryan Thomas, NYJ 66.31 68.17 -1.86 7.5 67 32 1 0
8. Robert Mathis, IND 65.85 66.17 -0.32 9.5 55 33 4 0
9. Justin Smith, CIN 64.31 68.17 -3.86 7 61 31 1 0
10. Tommy Kelly, OAK 61.85 62.00 -0.15 3.5 57 34 1 0
11. Ty Warren, NE 61.67 56.73 +4.94 6.5 69 19 1 1
12. Charles Grant, NO 60.15 60.67 -0.52 6 54 29 3 0
13. Kyle Vanden Bosch, TEN 59.38 55.33 +4.05 4 58 32 1 0
14. Terrell Suggs, BAL 58.62 50.00 +8.62 7 49 28 3 0
15. Tamba Hali, KC 57.38 57.67 -0.29 5 48 31 4 0
16. John Abraham, ATL 57.20 54.00 +3.20 4 16 10 4 0
17. Victor Adeyanju, STL 56.18 56.18 +0.00 1 34 22 0 0
18. Vonnie Holliday, MIA 55.69 58.00 -2.31 7 53 28 0 0
19. Marques Douglas, SF 55.38 54.00 +1.38 3 46 33 2 0
20. Ebenezer Ekuban, DEN 54.50 54.00 +0.50 4.5 47 28 0 0

Count Zarth
12-12-2006, 04:18 PM
Those rankings obviously take into account how well Allen plays the run. I wonder if there is a defensive lineman with more tackles than he has, or more tackles for loss.

penchief
12-12-2006, 04:27 PM
Those rankings obviously take into account how well Allen plays the run. I wonder if there is a defensive lineman with more tackles than he has, or more tackles for loss.

I'm certain it does. The stats include tackles. In fact, if you look at Allen's solo tackles he blows everybody else away. That's probably what vaulted him to the top.

Did you notice who is number 15?

Count Zarth
12-12-2006, 04:29 PM
I'm certain it does. The stats include tackles.

Did you notice who is number 15?

Hey man how about those Penn State Nittany Lions. WOO!

penchief
12-12-2006, 04:32 PM
Hey man how about those Penn State Nittany Lions. WOO!

From this day forward you shall be known as GoLions.

Count Zarth
12-12-2006, 04:34 PM
No seriously if the Chiefs draft any more Nittany Lions I might bust a load in my pants. FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FOR THE COLLEGE KNOWN AS PENN STATE!

penchief
12-12-2006, 04:37 PM
No seriously if the Chiefs draft any more Nittany Lions I might bust a load in my pants. FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FOR THE COLLEGE KNOWN AS PENN STATE!

I wouldn't go that far but they have drafted the two guys I really wanted them to. It makes it a lot more fun when that happens.

Count Zarth
12-12-2006, 04:41 PM
I wouldn't go that far but they have drafted the two guys I really wanted them to. It makes it a lot more fun when that happens.

No shit. Penn Staters becoming Chiefs omigaaaaaarsssssssssh!!!!!!!!!111

Count Zarth
12-12-2006, 04:41 PM
On a serious note, what was your reaction when the Chiefs drafted LJ?

Frankie
12-12-2006, 04:50 PM
Is Jared Allen really all that???


Lets put it this way...When the Wild-Man FINALLY gets done RAVAGING everyones wife and asks for a scotch......You DAMN well better pour!!!

The guy once roped a herd of rampaging bulls and rode'em through an Idaho tornado...You are misinformed. That was Rich Scanlon.

penchief
12-12-2006, 04:55 PM
On a serious note, what was your reaction when the Chiefs drafted LJ?

I thought it was great because who wouldn't want to watch a talent like that run the ball 25 times a game for their favorite pro team? He made it fun to watch Penn State again and I knew he would make it fun to watch him run in the NFL. I was very excited when we landed him.

I, and a few others, immediately defended the LJ pick against the critics. There was only a handfull of us back then. There was LVNHACK, htismaqe, skip, and me, I think. I'm sure there are a couple more deserving souls. We all knew he would prove the critics wrong.

Same with Hali. Watching him play at Penn State you could see he was a football player. We needed defense and he fit our needs perfectly. So I was excited again.

Skip Towne
12-12-2006, 05:26 PM
Hey man how about those Penn State Nittany Lions. WOO!
What the hell is a Nittany Lion?

scott free
12-12-2006, 05:29 PM
You are misinformed. That was Rich Scanlon.


I had better quit underestimating the "SCANIMAL".

penchief
12-12-2006, 05:36 PM
What the hell is a Nittany Lion?

From Wikepedia:

The Nittany Lion is the mascot of the Pennsylvania State University in State College, Pennsylvania and its athletic teams. It refers to the mountain lions that once roamed nearby the school.

Mountain lions had roamed on nearby Mount Nittany until the 1880s, when they were eliminated. The origin of the name "Mount Nittany" is obscure, the most commonly accepted explanation being that it is derived of Native American words (loosely pronounced as "neet-a-nee") meaning either "single mountain" or a protective barrier against the elements.