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View Full Version : Chiefs It is time for King Carl to voluntarily move on.


BigRedChief
12-10-2006, 07:39 PM
I agree that the drafts since the 2002 Sims draft have been good. His marketing savvy has made the Chiefs a place to be on Sundays. Marty and King Carl turned around this team from the pits of despair. I enjoy the hell out of my game day experience and King Carl made that happen. Marty and King Carl are to be commended and thanked.

The Chiefs have great regular season records and but what about the playoffs? The historical facts about the results on the field can't be denied. The fans of KC have sold out every game since the rearly 90's Season Ticket Prices are up over 200% above normal inflation increaces during King Carl's rein King Carl has the longest rein in the NFL as GM, 17 years Every team in the AFC West (including a former team, the Seahawks) has been to a Super Bowl during King Carl's rein, but us No playoff apperances in 8 out of the last 9 years. No playoff wins since 1994 (Average ticket Price = $26.83). Only the Lions and Bengals have waited longer for a NFL playoff win than the Chiefs. Even the Arizona Cardinals have won a playoff game during that time. Average ticket price in 2006 = $72.56 The only AFC team with less playoff wins than the Chiefs since their last Superbowl appearance is the expansion Houston Texans. 13-3 with home field advantage in the playoffs three times and did nothing but lose thier first game. Since 1996-97 we have not had back to back winning seasons. 4 Head Coaches during King Carl's reinI know that King Carl is not going anywhere. But when Marty left I felt he was still a good coach but it was time for him to move on. It is time for King Carl to voluntarily move on.

The Record
1989 9-7 (The Marty and King Carl era begins)
1990 11-5 (Lost in the 1st round of the playoffs)
1991 10-6 (Lost in the WC round of the playoffs)
1992 10-6 (Lost in the WC round of the playoffs)
1993 11-5 (Lost in the Divisional round, Montana and Allen era begins)
1994 9-7 (Lost in the AFC championship game. Montana retires)
1995 13-3 (HFA. Lost in the Divisional round. Bono 3 intís. 3 missed FGís)
1996 9-7 (No playoffs)
1997 13-3 (HFA. Lost in the Divisional round to the Broncos. Allen retires.)
1998 7-9 (No playoffs.Gannon to the Raiders. Marty Era is over)
1999 9-7 (Gunther era begins. Needed to beat Oakland at home in the final game. Up 17-0. Lost)
2000 7-9 (No playoffs. Gunn is fired)
2001 6-10 (No playoffs. DV era begins)
2002 8-8 (No playoffs)
2003 13-3 (HFA. Lost in the Divisional round. Never forced a punt)
2004 7-9 (No playoffs)
2005 10-6 (No playoffs. DV retires)
2006 9-7 (Herm era begins. Lost in the WC round of the playoffs)

Chiefs under Marty were 104-49
Gunís Record 16-16
DVís Record 44-36
Hermís Record 9-7
Chiefs after Marty are 69-59

King Carlís regular season record during his rein under 4 different HC and 19 years = 173-135

King Carlís post season record during his rein under 4 different HC and 19 years = 3-9 (All playoff wins were with Joe Montana at QB 93-94)

Bowser
12-10-2006, 07:40 PM
Carl will never voluntarily give up the Golden Goose.

BigRedChief
12-10-2006, 07:42 PM
Carl will never voluntarily give up the Golden Goose.Nor will Lamar or Clark ever pull the trigger. Maybe if after a couple of years of not selling out Arrowhead but by then King Carl might voluntarily move on.

Bowser
12-10-2006, 07:43 PM
Nor will Lamar or Clark ever pull the trigger. Maybe is after a couple of years of not selling out Arrowhead but by then King Carl might voluntarily move on.

Maybe.

Wonder what will happen to the heiarchy after Lamar passes.

Deberg_1990
12-10-2006, 07:44 PM
Look how long Lamar held on to Jack Steadman. You really think hes going to dump Carl??

Ive said it many, many times....until people vote with their checkbooks and stop going to the games, Carl will be here....

milkman
12-10-2006, 07:48 PM
Carl will voluntarily leave his position when they pry his cold dead fingers from the fans' checkbooks.

ChiefsfaninPA
12-10-2006, 07:49 PM
Since when did King Carl start making plays and blowing coverages? He does bear some responsibility but players have to play like the belong in the NFL.

Deberg_1990
12-10-2006, 07:50 PM
Since when did King Carl start making plays and blowing coverages? He does bear some responsibility but players have to play like the belong in the NFL.


King Carl has to draft the players and add the free agents who should play like they belong in the NFL.

tk13
12-10-2006, 07:51 PM
I'm actually wondering if the Jacksonville game is going to sell out at this point. I'd be a little worried. If by a miracle, Cincy and Jacksonville dropped their upcoming road games to keep us in the race, it'll sell out I'm sure, but if not, ehhh.

milkman
12-10-2006, 07:53 PM
Since when did King Carl start making plays and blowing coverages? He does bear some responsibility but players have to play like the belong in the NFL.

After 17, going on 18 years, he bears all the ****in' responsibility.

His 5 year plan is still a failure, nearly 18 years later.

ChiefsfaninPA
12-10-2006, 07:54 PM
King Carl has to draft the players and add the free agents who should play like they belong in the NFL.

I don't think that is the issue either. He has signed some FA that we thought would produce and just haven't. That is the life of an NFL GM. If all the people on this board were so good at scouting players and signing FA they wouldn't be sitting here typing with me, they would be working for 1 of the 32 NFL teams. In hindsight we all look like scouting pros. Name one GM who doesn't have the same streak over this same amount of time.

siberian khatru
12-10-2006, 07:56 PM
Since when did King Carl start making plays and blowing coverages? He does bear some responsibility but players have to play like the belong in the NFL.

He's been here 18 years, he's hired 4 coaches, overseen drafts and FA signings and has precious little to show for it. It's not like this has started this year. At bare minimum, he hires coaches who reflect his philosophy, and the personnel and coaching decisions they make ultimately fall on his doorstep.

milkman
12-10-2006, 07:56 PM
I don't think that is the issue either. He has signed some FA that we thought would produce and just haven't. That is the life of an NFL GM. If all the people on this board were so good at scouting players and signing FA they wouldn't be sitting here typing with me, they would be working for 1 of the 32 NFL teams. In hindsight we all look like scouting pros. Name one GM who doesn't have the same streak over this same amount of time.

There isn't one other GM who's been given the opportunity to fail for 18 consecutive years.

siberian khatru
12-10-2006, 07:56 PM
I don't think that is the issue either. He has signed some FA that we thought would produce and just haven't. That is the life of an NFL GM. If all the people on this board were so good at scouting players and signing FA they wouldn't be sitting here typing with me, they would be working for 1 of the 32 NFL teams. In hindsight we all look like scouting pros. Name one GM who doesn't have the same streak over this same amount of time.

Has there been another GM in the league who's had 18 years to try to get it right?

siberian khatru
12-10-2006, 07:57 PM
Milkman beat me to it.

Mr. Laz
12-10-2006, 07:57 PM
It is time for King Carl to voluntarily move on.

ROFL ROFL ROFL

LMAO LMAO LMAO

ROFL ROFL ROFL

Iowanian
12-10-2006, 07:57 PM
If he cared about the fans of Kansas City...he would.

He won't.

Deberg_1990
12-10-2006, 07:59 PM
After 17, going on 18 years, he bears all the ****in' responsibility.

His 5 year plan is still a failure, nearly 18 years later.

The only thing i give Carl credit for is hiring Marty Schottenheimer and making NFL Sundays in KC a true "event"


Hes past his prime by about 8 or 9 years and its time to move on.

Hes not getting any better, hes getting worse.

ChiefsfaninPA
12-10-2006, 08:00 PM
Milkman beat me to it.

You guys are both right that he has been given a long time to try and bring a decent team here, but MOST of the blame has to fall on the players who play the game. King Carl didn't make Trent throw two bad balls. He didn't tell Wesley to play like rookie. The players we have are inconsistent to say the least. Maybe he bears some blame in bringing them here or keeping them here but at this level they should be able to play a little better than they have.

stevieray
12-10-2006, 08:01 PM
At this point, Carl is the only common denominator.

Sadly, the renovation will prolly pull the fans who are there to be seen.

KCChiefsFan88
12-10-2006, 08:02 PM
I think the cold reality of the situation is not only will Carl likely stay on until the end of his contract in 2009, he'll be the one to pick his successor and he'll remain in the organization and have some kind of behind-the-scenes role.

siberian khatru
12-10-2006, 08:02 PM
You guys are both right that he has been given a long time to try and bring a decent team here, but MOST of the blame has to fall on the players who play the game. King Carl didn't make Trent throw two bad balls. He didn't tell Wesley to play like rookie. The players we have are inconsistent to say the least. Maybe he bears some blame in bringing them here or keeping them here but at this level they should be able to play a little better than they have.

But that's just it. He's bringing in players who can't step up and do it. He's been doing it for nearly two decades.

KCChiefsFan88
12-10-2006, 08:10 PM
You guys are both right that he has been given a long time to try and bring a decent team here, but MOST of the blame has to fall on the players who play the game. King Carl didn't make Trent throw two bad balls. He didn't tell Wesley to play like rookie. The players we have are inconsistent to say the least. Maybe he bears some blame in bringing them here or keeping them here but at this level they should be able to play a little better than they have.


Yes let's blame the players. From 1994 to now it is the PLAYERS fault that the Chiefs haven't won a playoff game. Let's blame Trent Green for having to face down one of the best defenses in the league, with the likes of Eddie Kennison, Samie Parker and Dante Hall as his WRs down field (if you can find a worse #1-#3 group of WRs in the league please list them for me).

Do you enjoy sitting under Carl's desk with your mouth wide open?

milkman
12-10-2006, 08:11 PM
The reality is, without free agency, Carl's tenure here could very well have been as futile as Steadman's was.

Carl's draft history really isn't all that much better than Steadman's, is it?

Coach
12-10-2006, 08:12 PM
I'm actually wondering if the Jacksonville game is going to sell out at this point. I'd be a little worried. If by a miracle, Cincy and Jacksonville dropped their upcoming road games to keep us in the race, it'll sell out I'm sure, but if not, ehhh.

Uh, no. I think most of the fans here are pretty much done. Even if for whatever reason that we're still in the playoffs and having to beat the Jaguars, the odds aren't very good, because I think everyone is coming to realization that this team is way too inconsistent to do anything.

htismaqe
12-10-2006, 08:14 PM
I think the cold reality of the situation is not only will Carl likely stay on until the end of his contract in 2009, he'll be the one to pick his successor and he'll remain in the organization and have some kind of behind-the-scenes role.

Yep. He's got a stranglehold on the organization.

Bowser
12-10-2006, 08:16 PM
Yep. He's got a stranglehold on the organization.

Shit, if Steadman can hold on to the Chairman of the Board title, Carl will surely get the Royal Grand Poobah title, or some such after his reign at GM is over.

Iowanian
12-10-2006, 08:17 PM
Carl has the organization and fan base in a scissor lock....and he didn't wash his baows after the workout and sauna.

Coach
12-10-2006, 08:18 PM
The only way IMHO is to do what the Lions fans would do. :shrug:

htismaqe
12-10-2006, 08:26 PM
Shit, if Steadman can hold on to the Chairman of the Board title, Carl will surely get the Royal Grand Poobah title, or some such after his reign at GM is over.

Yep.

One needs to look no further than Jack Steadman to see Carl's future.

ChiefsCountry
12-10-2006, 08:30 PM
I think Carl and company try to put a winning product on the field. Heck look at the coaches, other than Gunther the other 3 were proven NFL coaches that were at the time of hire probally the biggest names available. They have went out and spent money on free agents and drafted averagely like most of the league. It just seems the breaks that you need to win in the league haven't falling our way, that being said its probally a good time for Carl to leave. But also I think they thought this might be the year and with the Roaf retirement caught the whole organization off guard.

milkman
12-10-2006, 08:33 PM
I think Carl and company try to put a winning product on the field. Heck look at the coaches, other than Gunther the other 3 were proven NFL coaches that were at the time of hire probally the biggest names available. They have went out and spent money on free agents and drafted averagely like most of the league. It just seems the breaks that you need to win in the league haven't falling our way, that being said its probally a good time for Carl to leave. But also I think they thought this might be the year and with the Roaf retirement caught the whole organization off guard.

That whole "breaks just didn't go our way" is just weak.

18 years of bad breaks?
Give me a ****in' break.

Vince Lombardi:
"Luck is the product of preparation and execution"

BigRedChief
12-10-2006, 10:47 PM
Yep.

One needs to look no further than Jack Steadman to see Carl's future.I'd have no problem with that. Having him handling the money, doing the marketing, great. It's just time for a fresh approach. 17 years is plenty of oppertunity to get it done.

added this one to the list:
The only AFC team with less playoff wins than the Chiefs since their last Superbowl appearance is the expansion Houston Texans.

Mecca
12-10-2006, 11:09 PM
That whole "breaks just didn't go our way" is just weak.

18 years of bad breaks?
Give me a ****in' break.

Vince Lombardi:
"Luck is the product of preparation and execution"

The breaks that saw the bottom feeder teams of our division that were 1-15 get better than us and go to Superbowls.....yea I'm sure that's just the breaks.

By the way for the other post we haven't drafted averagly for Carl's tenure, we're below average.

BigRedChief
12-11-2006, 07:36 AM
The breaks that saw the bottom feeder teams of our division that were 1-15 get better than us and go to Superbowls.....yea I'm sure that's just the breaks.

By the way for the other post we haven't drafted averagly for Carl's tenure, we're below average.
Yep and thats why we continue to be an average team. We don't suck on a Lions level but we are also no where near a "Real" contender for a Super Bowl title.

King_Chief_Fan
12-11-2006, 08:13 AM
I agree that the drafts since the 2002 Sims draft have been good. His marketing savvy has made the Chiefs a place to be on Sundays. Marty and King Carl turned around this team from the pits of despair. I enjoy the hell out of my game day experience and King Carl made that happen. Marty and King Carl are to be commended and thanked.

The Chiefs have great regular season records and but what about the playoffs? The historical facts about the results on the field can't be denied. The fans of KC have sold out every game since the rearly 90's Season Ticket Prices are up over 200% above normal inflation increaces during King Carl's rein King Carl has the longest rein in the NFL as GM, 17 years Every team in the AFC West (including a former team, the Seahawks) has been to a Super Bowl during King Carl's rein, but us No playoff apperances in 8 out of the last 9 years. No playoff wins since 1994. Even the Arizona Cardinals have won a playoff game during that time. The only AFC team with less playoff wins than the Chiefs since their last Superbowl appearance is the expansion Houston Texans. 13-3 with home field advantage in the playoffs three times and did nothing but lose thier first game. 3 Head Coaches during King Carl's reinI know that King Carl is not going anywhere. But when Marty left I felt he was still a good coach but it was time for him to move on. It is time for King Carl to voluntarily move on.

I think points 1 and 2 keep Peterson around until new ownership takes the team.....and based on 1 and 2, may keep his job with new ownership. It is about the money and money only. Who cares if you win a SB if the fan base is "loyal" enough to fill your stadium every Sunday, take on the increases, and not require the team to fill a winner?

kepp
12-11-2006, 08:36 AM
I know that King Carl is not going anywhere. But when Marty left I felt he was still a good coach but it was time for him to move on. It is time for King Carl to voluntarily move on.
Carl, please step away from that money tree. It's someone else's turn. Thanks...I knew you'd understand.

dirk digler
12-11-2006, 08:53 AM
Nor will Lamar or Clark ever pull the trigger. Maybe if after a couple of years of not selling out Arrowhead but by then King Carl might voluntarily move on.

To be honest we don't know what Clark will do since he is not the owner..yet.

greg63
12-11-2006, 09:00 AM
I know that King Carl is not going anywhere. But when Marty left I felt he was still a good coach but it was time for him to move on. It is time for King Carl to voluntarily move on.


Agreed.

PinkFloyd
12-11-2006, 09:11 AM
To be honest we don't know what Clark will do since he is not the owner..yet.


I think the "responsibilities" have already been turned over to him... I'm pretty sure he just can't go and make any decisions without the consent from the board...

However; when Lamar leaves this earth --- it's alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll his... And I'm not surprised if Carl is shaking alittle thinking about this... Oh I'm sure his job is safe, but I imagine he's alittle worried about what Clark might do...

hawkchief
12-11-2006, 09:39 AM
When has Carl Peterson ever done or said anything publicly that would lead anyone to believe he would do the right thing and move on? He will go to his grave clutching every last dollar he milked from the fans of KC.

wolfpack0735
12-11-2006, 09:44 AM
queen carl will move on voluntarily when clark voluntarily shows him the door.

ChiefsCountry
12-11-2006, 09:51 AM
Clark runs the soccer teams and they have made changes, hell the Wizards fired the coach mid-season. I think the Chiefs will be run a little differently under Clark.

el borracho
12-11-2006, 10:10 AM
What do most people see as Carl's single greatest flaw? What one event do you think was his worst move as a GM?

I would say Carl's greatest mistake in his time here was hiring DV. Now, I'm not saying DV was a bad coach- merely that it cost the Chiefs too much to acquire him. To get DV meant we surrendered multiple picks to the Rams not just for the rights to DV but also more picks for Trent and some other player (I don't even remember now) that DV just had to have. If you look at the Chargers and the Broncs (both in better overall shape than the Chiefs) you will see that they have created an excess of draft picks while the Chiefs have given their picks away. Giving away picks for coaches is a horrible way to build a team (Tampa Bay, currently a joke, did the same thing to get Chucky). I really think if Carl could just learn to value our draft picks better then he would be a much more successful GM.

ChiefsCountry
12-11-2006, 10:12 AM
'98 season when they went out and tried to buy a Super Bowl and it backfired.

King_Chief_Fan
12-11-2006, 10:28 AM
What do most people see as Carl's single greatest flaw? What one event do you think was his worst move as a GM?

I would say Carl's greatest mistake in his time here was hiring DV. Now, I'm not saying DV was a bad coach- merely that it cost the Chiefs too much to acquire him. To get DV meant we surrendered multiple picks to the Rams not just for the rights to DV but also more picks for Trent and some other player (I don't even remember now) that DV just had to have. If you look at the Chargers and the Broncs (both in better overall shape than the Chiefs) you will see that they have created an excess of draft picks while the Chiefs have given their picks away. Giving away picks for coaches is a horrible way to build a team (Tampa Bay, currently a joke, did the same thing to get Chucky). I really think if Carl could just learn to value our draft picks better then he would be a much more successful GM.

THe hiring of Herm fits into the same category. He made another mistake.

FAX
12-11-2006, 10:42 AM
Carl hasn't proven anything to anyone. Ever.

Other than how to consistently fill a stadium by fielding a mediocre team, of course. He's one of the all time greats at that.

If the goal is to make money. He's a success. Unfortunately for Carl, however, most people believe the Lombardi Trophy is the objective of an NFL franchise.

His philosophy seems to be that, in the era of the salary cap, you don't sell out to get to the SB. On the other hand, you try and stay competitive every year and hope that the chicken bones fall just right. If you're watching the Thumbtacks, you're seeing a team recover from cap hell in a matter of a few years ... after making it to the show following several of the most disruptive years a team can experience. So it can be done. Carl just can't do it.

He should fall on his sword. Face first.

FAX

BigRedChief
12-11-2006, 11:16 AM
THe hiring of Herm fits into the same category. He made another mistake.
I'm not ready to go there? What better head coach was out there that was better than Herm? We got the top candidate that year.

ct
12-11-2006, 11:24 AM
He's been here 18 years, he's hired 4 coaches, overseen drafts and FA signings and has precious little to show for it. It's not like this has started this year. At bare minimum, he hires coaches who reflect his philosophy, and the personnel and coaching decisions they make ultimately fall on his doorstep.

BS!! He has multiple years of consecutive sellouts to show for it. As we all know, that's his bread and butter. We need a football man to be the GM, and let CP do his thing as CEO and team President.

Mr. Laz
12-11-2006, 11:38 AM
Agreed.
Welcome back!







:D

chiefsfan1963
12-11-2006, 11:38 AM
Kansas Citians are just plain nice folks. Although I haven't lived there since 1978, and will never live there again. I am proud to have been born and raised there for most of my childhood.

Unfortunately, the niceness factor can be a negative when it comes to Chiefs football. Chiefs fans are not fairweather ones. They come not no matter what each Sunday to cheer their team. CP is a beneficiary of this.

CP's days are coming to an end. I say 2 to 3 seasons and he is gone finally. If we're lucky it will be sooner.

el borracho
12-11-2006, 12:57 PM
THe hiring of Herm fits into the same category. He made another mistake.
Yes, in my opinion but not as large a mistake. We gave away one pick (big mistake, IMO) but haven't yet given away any future picks. I am actually pretty hopeful that the next few drafts will be good ones which replenish the Chiefs. We absolutely have to fix the lines (both O and D) next year and find a WR. After that we will need to find youth at the positions where we are oldest. 1-2 years from now we should have a much different team.

htismaqe
12-11-2006, 01:11 PM
Kansas Citians are just plain nice folks. Although I haven't lived there since 1978, and will never live there again. I am proud to have been born and raised there for most of my childhood.

Unfortunately, the niceness factor can be a negative when it comes to Chiefs football. Chiefs fans are not fairweather ones. They come not no matter what each Sunday to cheer their team. CP is a beneficiary of this.

CP's days are coming to an end. I say 2 to 3 seasons and he is gone finally. If we're lucky it will be sooner.

Way to go out on a limb there. Carl's contract is up after 3 seasons.

shaneo69
12-11-2006, 01:28 PM
Yep.

One needs to look no further than Jack Steadman to see Carl's future.

Ring of Fame, baby!!

morphius
12-11-2006, 01:34 PM
To be honest we don't know what Clark will do since he is not the owner..yet.
Everything I have ever heard has led me to believe that Clark does not like Carl at all, and I believe as soon as he takes over the first off season Carl will be out the door.

dirk digler
12-11-2006, 01:37 PM
Everything I have ever heard has led me to believe that Clark does not like Carl at all, and I believe as soon as he takes over the first off season Carl will be out the door.

Yep that is what I have heard as well.

BigRedChief
12-11-2006, 01:40 PM
Everything I have ever heard has led me to believe that Clark does not like Carl at all, and I believe as soon as he takes over the first off season Carl will be out the door.
Yeah we have all heard those rumors. We can only hope they are true.

PinkFloyd
12-11-2006, 02:28 PM
Prince...

Darn -- no Janet Jackson boobies...

BigRedChief
12-11-2006, 03:17 PM
Ring of Fame, baby!!
That still is a major pisser to me. How could a guy run this team into the ground and get a ring of fame honor?

greg63
12-11-2006, 03:51 PM
Welcome back!







:D

:)

htismaqe
12-11-2006, 04:46 PM
That still is a major pisser to me. How could a guy run this team into the ground and get a ring of fame honor?

Because the Chiefs are NOT a business. They are a "good ole boy" network.

Businesses value RESULTS.

Good ole boy networks value loyalty and longevity.

Calcountry
12-11-2006, 05:42 PM
Maybe.

Wonder what will happen to the heiarchy after Lamar passes.Hopefully he sells it to someone who gives a dam about winning.

Thig Lyfe
12-11-2006, 05:45 PM
It was time for him to move on seven years ago.

Sure-Oz
12-11-2006, 07:37 PM
He really needs to go. 18 years of jack and shit. He has tried to get a winner, but its time for him to dethrone himself as GM.

BigRedChief
12-11-2006, 07:56 PM
Because the Chiefs are NOT a business. They are a "good ole boy" network.

Businesses value RESULTS.

Good ole boy networks value loyalty and longevity.
Sad but true.:shake:

ChiefsCountry
12-11-2006, 07:58 PM
That still is a major pisser to me. How could a guy run this team into the ground and get a ring of fame honor?

BC of all the shit he did before he ran the team into the ground.

BigRedChief
12-17-2006, 11:54 PM
No playoff wins since 1994. Only the Lions and Bengals have waited longer for a NFL playoff win than the Chiefs. Even the Arizona Cardinals have won a playoff game during that time. Since 1996-97 we have not had back to back winning seasons.Added these two facts to the orginal list.

Rain Man
12-17-2006, 11:56 PM
An involuntary departure would be fine, too. In fact, I might prefer it. I wouldn't mind seeing security carrying Peterson out of his office kicking and screaming.

wazu
12-18-2006, 12:30 AM
I wouldn't mind seeing security carrying Peterson out of his office kicking and screaming.

I'd prefer weeping.

Chiefs Pantalones
12-18-2006, 12:41 AM
After reading those lists of things, it really opens my eyes more that we are a below average professional sports franchise. We truly do need a house cleaning. Hopefully Clark grabs it by the balls.

Mecca
12-18-2006, 12:43 AM
Carl's response is "Over my dead body"

BWillie
12-18-2006, 02:07 AM
If I was an General Manager, and I went 10-6 or 9-7 almost every year, I wouldn't want to totally revamp the team either. You are close to the playoffs, and you are along ways away from sucking. So might as well try to get into the playoffs the next year rather than rebuild. Teams rebuild because they go 6-10 or worse, which the Chiefs haven't done in ages. There has been only one team worse than 7-9 in the last 20 years. What GM in their right mind is going to rebuild after going 10-6? 11-5? or 9-7? Concurrently, our 7-9 records have been sandwhiched between 13-3's and 11-5's most of the time. This alone shows it wouldn't of been a good idea to rebuild those years anyways. You cannot blame this shit on Carl. I don't understand it. Yes, the superbowl and the playoffs have not been good to us, but you have to look at things without a biased point of view sometimes.

tk13
12-18-2006, 02:39 AM
Well, the 1 playoff appearance in the last 9 years is what gets me. That's not acceptable. I mean, you could make the argument that 17-18 years without a Super Bowl is too much... and that's fair, but even if you're patient, we're not even making the playoffs. It's one thing if you're knocking on the door every year like the Steelers or Eagles were in recent years.

What's hard to believe is that we're 74-68 over the last 9 seasons, and we're going to have 1 playoff appearance in that span. I'd like to see the list of teams that have winning records in the last decade and how many playoff appearances they have.

luv
12-18-2006, 02:45 AM
Well, the 1 playoff appearance in the last 9 years is what gets me. That's not acceptable. I mean, you could make the argument that 17-18 years without a Super Bowl is too much... and that's fair, but even if you're patient, we're not even making the playoffs. It's one thing if you're knocking on the door every year like the Steelers or Eagles were in recent years.

What's hard to believe is that we're 74-68 over the last 9 seasons, and we're going to have 1 playoff appearance in that span. I'd like to see the list of teams that have winning records in the last decade and how many playoff appearances they have.
That's usually the type of information that you supply. ;)

Mecca
12-18-2006, 05:42 AM
If I was an General Manager, and I went 10-6 or 9-7 almost every year, I wouldn't want to totally revamp the team either. You are close to the playoffs, and you are along ways away from sucking. So might as well try to get into the playoffs the next year rather than rebuild. Teams rebuild because they go 6-10 or worse, which the Chiefs haven't done in ages. There has been only one team worse than 7-9 in the last 20 years. What GM in their right mind is going to rebuild after going 10-6? 11-5? or 9-7? Concurrently, our 7-9 records have been sandwhiched between 13-3's and 11-5's most of the time. This alone shows it wouldn't of been a good idea to rebuild those years anyways. You cannot blame this shit on Carl. I don't understand it. Yes, the superbowl and the playoffs have not been good to us, but you have to look at things without a biased point of view sometimes.

This team has 1 playoff appearance in the last 10 years.....there aren't alot of 11-5's in there......you have to go back a decade to see the Chiefs doing anything like that.

People who are happy to be just ok and have a phantom shot so they still buy tickets and sell out the stadium are why Carl's still employed. Keep supporting the guy he'll never go away at this rate and we'll never win either.

BigRedChief
12-18-2006, 07:44 AM
If I was an General Manager, and I went 10-6 or 9-7 almost every year, I wouldn't want to totally revamp the team either. You are close to the playoffs, and you are along ways away from sucking. So might as well try to get into the playoffs the next year rather than rebuild. Teams rebuild because they go 6-10 or worse, which the Chiefs haven't done in ages. There has been only one team worse than 7-9 in the last 20 years. What GM in their right mind is going to rebuild after going 10-6? 11-5? or 9-7? Concurrently, our 7-9 records have been sandwhiched between 13-3's and 11-5's most of the time. This alone shows it wouldn't of been a good idea to rebuild those years anyways. You cannot blame this shit on Carl. I don't understand it. Yes, the superbowl and the playoffs have not been good to us, but you have to look at things without a biased point of view sometimes.
UHHHH Did you hear LJ after the game? The lead dog. The alpha male. Herm's hand picked "man". He's publically calling for change.

MahiMike
12-18-2006, 07:50 AM
I say we voluntarily run his ass out of town. Tie him up to a railcar after he's tarred and feathered.

BigRedChief
12-18-2006, 08:00 AM
I say we voluntarily run his ass out of town. Tie him up to a railcar after he's tarred and feathered.
King Carl isn't going anywhere. Clark Hunt isn't going to upset the organization by getting a new GM. This season is a product of King Carl's drafts. If one of the 4 high draft picks at DT's that they had drafted in the last 4 years had worked out our defense wouldn't have sucked so bad. Then they could have used those high draft picks to get help on the OL, WR and CB.

After 17 years of failure to reach a goal a NFL team should have its time to give someone else a chance. He's going to do worse? Maybe. But we already know where this is going to lead us.


After one of the worst defensive seasons ever if we wouldn't have gave big time playmaker money to Eric Hicks, Greg Wesley and Jerome Woods we would have had more money to pursue FA's.

stevieray
12-18-2006, 08:40 AM
People who are happy to be just ok and have a phantom shot so they still buy tickets and sell out the stadium are why Carl's still employed.

Ya, that's it Mecca...the people that buy tickets are happy with mediocrity. Everyone I see at Arrowhead doesn't really want to win.

asshat.

munkey
12-18-2006, 08:48 AM
Yep. He's got a stranglehold on the organization.

I think that "stranglehold" died with Lamar...

I don't think theres any love loss btwn Clark and Carl.

htismaqe
12-18-2006, 09:45 AM
I think that "stranglehold" died with Lamar...

I don't think theres any love loss btwn Clark and Carl.

That's a myth.

Clark has been in charge for a couple of years and one of the first things he did was extend Carl's contract.

chiefsfan1963
12-18-2006, 09:47 AM
UHHHH Did you hear LJ after the game? The lead dog. The alpha male. Herm's hand picked "man". He's publically calling for change.

what exactly did he say?

BigRedChief
12-18-2006, 09:58 AM
what exactly did he say?It's getting played all over the radio here in KC. Haven't saw it in print anywhere yet...A lot of cussing in the remarks that get bleeped out also

He said other teams make half time adjustments but we don't.

He said that some team members don't care enough

He said changes need to be made on both sides of the ball

Mecca
12-18-2006, 10:02 AM
Ya, that's it Mecca...the people that buy tickets are happy with mediocrity. Everyone I see at Arrowhead doesn't really want to win.

asshat.

Yes because I'm so wrong to think the stadium being full and the Chiefs making money is more important than winning when it's appeared that way for years.....if the Chiefs weren't making money and weren't the toast of the town Carl would be out here.

By plunking down your dollar you tell the Chiefs you like what Carl does. The Chiefs are more of a team about business than passion.....making money>winning titles.

htismaqe
12-18-2006, 10:24 AM
It's getting played all over the radio here in KC. Haven't saw it in print anywhere yet...A lot of cussing in the remarks that get bleeped out also

He said other teams make half time adjustments but we don't.

He said that some team members don't care enough

He said changes need to be made on both sides of the ball

It's about ****ing time.

hawkchief
12-18-2006, 10:43 AM
Yeah, maybe LJ should watch films of the games and see how many times HE has failed to make a block or even chip a rushing defender this season. Maybe he is part of the reason that Trent Green looks dazed and confused in the pocket now. Maybe he needs to care little more.

FAX
12-18-2006, 11:04 AM
It's getting played all over the radio here in KC. Haven't saw it in print anywhere yet...A lot of cussing in the remarks that get bleeped out also

He said other teams make half time adjustments but we don't.

He said that some team members don't care enough

He said changes need to be made on both sides of the ball

I have a suggestion for our Bouncing Baby Bigot. Learn how to block and catch the ball, then talk.

FAX

Chiefs Pantalones
12-18-2006, 01:07 PM
I praise LJ for his comments.

I'm glad that LJ is saying that stuff. I agree with Parker, it's about time someone spoke out. I'm tired of the Trent Greens (all due respect to him though) that won't say anything because they are just "happy to be here." We need leaders who will speak up. Like LJ or not, he wants to win. I'm not saying Green doesn't, but just like Herm said...we need both kinds of leaders, ones that lead by example and ones that SPEAK UP. This team doesn't have ANY that speak up, until this morning. I'm glad, it shows LJ does care.

BigRedChief
12-18-2006, 01:14 PM
It's about ****ing time.
810 is playing a sound bite every 20 mintues where LJ calls out the play calling.
"Its too predictable. Every team in the NFL knows whats coming. We have to change that"

SALEEN 209
12-18-2006, 01:17 PM
Why dont we just start fire Carl Peterson.com and see if we can run him out of town that way. Its worth a shot.

luv
12-18-2006, 01:18 PM
Yes because I'm so wrong to think the stadium being full and the Chiefs making money is more important than winning when it's appeared that way for years.....if the Chiefs weren't making money and weren't the toast of the town Carl would be out here.

By plunking down your dollar you tell the Chiefs you like what Carl does. The Chiefs are more of a team about business than passion.....making money>winning titles.
So there's no way you would go to a Chiefs game if given the opportunity?

htismaqe
12-18-2006, 01:22 PM
I praise LJ for his comments.

I'm glad that LJ is saying that stuff. I agree with Parker, it's about time someone spoke out. I'm tired of the Trent Greens (all due respect to him though) that won't say anything because they are just "happy to be here." We need leaders who will speak up. Like LJ or not, he wants to win. I'm not saying Green does, but just like Herm said...we need both kinds of leaders, ones that lead by example and ones that SPEAK UP. This team doesn't have ANY that speak up, until this morning. I'm glad, it shows LJ does care.

Yep.

I'm past the point of caring about character. Bring on Moss, bring on TO. Anybody that wants to ****ING WIN.

stevieray
12-18-2006, 02:34 PM
Yes because I'm so wrong to think the stadium being full and the Chiefs making money is more important than winning when it's appeared that way for years.....if the Chiefs weren't making money and weren't the toast of the town Carl would be out here.

By plunking down your dollar you tell the Chiefs you like what Carl does. The Chiefs are more of a team about business than passion.....making money>winning titles.

changing your arguement? how surprising...

I plunk down my dollar because I choose to be at Arrowhead in the fall..

BigRedChief
12-18-2006, 02:37 PM
changing your arguement? how surprising...

I plunk down my dollar because I choose to be at Arrowhead in the fall..
Add my $2,999 dollars to that plunking down too. See ya on New Years eve Stevieray :toast:

HemiEd
12-18-2006, 02:40 PM
I have a suggestion for our Bouncing Baby Bigot. Learn how to block and catch the ball, then talk.

FAX

yep and he needs to remove his ****ing diaper!

HemiEd
12-18-2006, 02:48 PM
I praise LJ for his comments..
1999 all over again, next he will be renting video equipment and not paying for it or selling stolen SUVs.

I'm glad that LJ is saying that stuff. I agree with Parker, it's about time someone spoke out. I'm tired of the Trent Greens (all due respect to him though) that won't say anything because they are just "happy to be here." We need leaders who will speak up. True leaders say these things behind closed doors, they don't call people out in the media.

Like LJ or not, he wants to win. I'm not saying Green doesn't, but just like Herm said...we need both kinds of leaders, ones that lead by example and ones that SPEAK UP. This team doesn't have ANY that speak up, until this morning. I'm glad, it shows LJ does care.

If LJ wants to win, he might consider doing better at blocking and catching the ball. He is not a complete player yet nor has he earned the right to be calling anyone out. Elvis Grbac could not throw and catch the ball.

stevieray
12-18-2006, 02:49 PM
Add my $2,999 dollars to that plunking down too. See ya on New Years eve Stevieray :toast:

tailgating:$20
ticket to the game:$69
Lamar Hunt: Priceless

htismaqe
12-18-2006, 02:55 PM
1999 all over again, next he will be renting video equipment and not paying for it or selling stolen SUVs.

That's beyond ridiculous, bordering on retarded.

True leaders say these things behind closed doors, they don't call people out in the media.

Absolutely untrue. True leaders say these things in whatever forum they have to. Cowards would prefer they say them behind closed doors so that they can keep them bottled up and not have to deal with them...

If LJ wants to win, he might consider doing better at blocking and catching the ball. He is not a complete player yet nor has he earned the right to be calling anyone out. Elvis Grbac could not throw and catch the ball.

At least you ended your post with a decent point.

HemiEd
12-18-2006, 03:27 PM
That's beyond ridiculous, bordering on retarded.



Absolutely untrue. True leaders say these things in whatever forum they have to. Cowards would prefer they say them behind closed doors so that they can keep them bottled up and not have to deal with them...



At least you ended your post with a decent point.


So you think Peyton Manning's statements about the Offensive line after his playoff loss last year was good leadership? You think Elvis Grbac telling the media that he could not catch his own throws was good leadership? Now that is retarded.

htismaqe
12-18-2006, 03:35 PM
So you think Peyton Manning's statements about the Offensive line after his playoff loss last year was good leadership? You think Elvis Grbac telling the media that he could not catch his own throws was good leadership? Now that is retarded.

That statement from Elvis Grbac was finger pointing, not leadership.

In what forum a statement is made has ZERO bearing on the substance of a statement.

Sometimes things have to be said in an open forum so that an unbiased ear can hear them. Otherwise, the powers that be bury the truth in an attempt to prevent change.

BigRedChief
12-18-2006, 03:40 PM
Sometimes things have to be said in an open forum so that an unbiased ear can hear them. Otherwise, the powers that be bury the truth in an attempt to prevent change.
ďFirst they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out.

Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out.

Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out.

And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.Ē

Martin Niemoeller

HemiEd
12-18-2006, 03:47 PM
That statement from Elvis Grbac was finger pointing, not leadership.

In what forum a statement is made has ZERO bearing on the substance of a statement.

Sometimes things have to be said in an open forum so that an unbiased ear can hear them. Otherwise, the powers that be bury the truth in an attempt to prevent change.

I agree wholeheartedly with this post, but do you think what LJ was saying, is not finger pointing?
Personally, I think the open forum should be confined to the locker room. Public outcrys, like this one from LJ, can only cause team devision IMO. I fail to see any good coming from it. He casted the first stone and lives in a glass house.

htismaqe
12-18-2006, 03:52 PM
I agree wholeheartedly with this post, but do you think what LJ was saying, is not finger pointing?
Personally, I think the open forum should be confined to the locker room. Public outcrys, like this one from LJ, can only cause team devision IMO. I fail to see any good coming from it. He casted the first stone and lives in a glass house.

Honestly, I don't care anymore. If LJ doing this is a catalyst for change, I'm all for it.

And we just went through 5 years where it was confined to the locker room. Offense on one side, defense on the other. No thanks.

HemiEd
12-18-2006, 03:56 PM
Honestly, I don't care anymore. If LJ doing this is a catalyst for change, I'm all for it.

And we just went through 5 years where it was confined to the locker room. Offense on one side, defense on the other. No thanks.

Personally, that seemed like a quick five years. Quality entertainment, a team I was proud of.
I would rather have that than the previous five, the only time I have ever been embaressed to wear my Chiefs stuff.

htismaqe
12-18-2006, 04:34 PM
Personally, that seemed like a quick five years. Quality entertainment, a team I was proud of.
I would rather have that than the previous five, the only time I have ever been embaressed to wear my Chiefs stuff.

How can you be proud of a team that can't win?

Baby Lee
12-18-2006, 04:48 PM
Personally, that seemed like a quick five years. Quality entertainment, a team I was proud of.
I would rather have that than the previous five, the only time I have ever been embaressed to wear my Chiefs stuff.
how can you be proud of a team that fields the worst defenses in the history of the NFL?
My God!! The mind boggles. The 32 _efense. All those Chiefs unis in highlight reels for other teams, other individual players. Some players rose from obscurity to look like worldbeaters for just that one day.
Ron Dayne?
Brian Griese in TB?
RB Smith in MN?
RB Bryson in Det?
Portis and the championship belt?

Embarassing. Crack Whore Daughter territory.

HemiEd
12-18-2006, 04:48 PM
How can you be proud of a team that can't win?

Have you not heard? It is not whether you win or lose, it is how you play the game. :)


In all seriousness, being a Chiefs fan, everything is relative for me. Just for a minute, put yourself in my shoes.
Of the 37 year sample I have to work with, I enjoyed that team the most.
I honestly grew weary of Martyball, and the poor offensive production. Previous to Marty, the Chiefs were dismal for a very long time.
Out of self preservation, I have to look at this as entertainment.

HemiEd
12-18-2006, 04:52 PM
how can you be proud of a team that fields the worst defenses in the history of the NFL?
My God!! The mind boggles. The 32 _efense. All those Chiefs unis in highlight reels for other teams, other individual players. Some players rose from obscurity to look like worldbeaters for just that one day.
Ron Dayne?
Brian Griese in TB?
RB Smith in MN?
RB Bryson in Det?
Portis and the championship belt?

Embarassing. Crack Whore Daughter territory.


How convenient, no mention of the offense. Did you enjoy watching this offense yesterday? I did not.

Baby Lee
12-18-2006, 04:55 PM
How convenient, no mention of the offense. Did you enjoy watching this offense yesterday? I did not.
I sure enjoyed watching the defenses for the Rams, Ravens, Pats, Bucs, Panthers and Steelers in the fricken' Super Bowl more than I enjoyed anyone's offense.

I already have a sport for nancy boys running up the score, it's call basketball.
Football is for men, well most places it is.

Chiefs Pantalones
12-18-2006, 04:58 PM
How convenient, no mention of the offense. Did you enjoy watching this offense yesterday? I did not.

I'll enjoy the Kansas City Chiefs when we start winning, no matter how it is done.

siberian khatru
12-18-2006, 05:04 PM
I'll enjoy the Kansas City Chiefs when we start winning, no matter how it is done.

Yup.

HemiEd
12-18-2006, 05:07 PM
I'll enjoy the Kansas City Chiefs when we start winning, no matter how it is done.

No question about it, losing sucks.

On the bright side,our field goal kicker should be clutch when it counts, from all the practice though.

Baby Lee
12-18-2006, 05:08 PM
I'll enjoy the Kansas City Chiefs when we start winning, no matter how it is done.
I dunno, those weeks when the Chiefs were on their track to 9-0, when it became evident that the wheels were coming right back off the D, then the embarassing losses to the Bengals, Broncos, and Vikings, leading to us being the most solidly lame-duck 13-3 HFA playoff team ever wasn't all roses and sunshine.

GoHuge
12-18-2006, 05:13 PM
I don't think that is the issue either. He has signed some FA that we thought would produce and just haven't. That is the life of an NFL GM. If all the people on this board were so good at scouting players and signing FA they wouldn't be sitting here typing with me, they would be working for 1 of the 32 NFL teams. In hindsight we all look like scouting pros. Name one GM who doesn't have the same streak over this same amount of time.Ozzie Newsome

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-18-2006, 05:18 PM
I dunno, those weeks when the Chiefs were on their track to 9-0, when it became evident that the wheels were coming right back off the D, then the embarassing losses to the Bengals, Broncos, and Vikings, leading to us being the most solidly lame-duck 13-3 HFA playoff team ever wasn't all roses and sunshine.

I've never seen so much pining for the olden days of Marty which were no better than the Vermeil days. We never did anything with Marty but humiliate ourselves in the playoffs, and you act like the guy is Red Auerbach. Judging from the tone of most of your football related posts, I think it may be beneficial for you to become a Charger fan. You seem enamored with a guy who was A) a horrible playoff coach and B) a despicable human being. I really don't understand why. If we were the 49ers and this was the Mariucci era and you were pining for Bill Walsh, this would make sense, but Marty is the antithesis of Bill Walsh, and we are just as mediocre now as we were with him. This obsession is pathological.

Chiefs Pantalones
12-18-2006, 05:20 PM
I dunno, those weeks when the Chiefs were on their track to 9-0, when it became evident that the wheels were coming right back off the D, then the embarassing losses to the Bengals, Broncos, and Vikings, leading to us being the most solidly lame-duck 13-3 HFA playoff team ever wasn't all roses and sunshine.

lol, but it was fun to watch so shut your mouth!!! ;)

Baby Lee
12-18-2006, 05:27 PM
I've never seen so much pining for the olden days of Marty which were no better than the Vermeil days. We never did anything with Marty but humiliate ourselves in the playoffs, and you act like the guy is Red Auerbach. Judging from the tone of most of your football related posts, I think it may be beneficial for you to become a Charger fan. You seem enamored with a guy who was A) a horrible playoff coach and B) a despicable human being. I really don't understand why. If we were the 49ers and this was the Mariucci era and you were pining for Bill Walsh, this would make sense, but Marty is the antithesis of Bill Walsh, and we are just as mediocre now as we were with him. This obsession is pathological.
We did plenty besides 'embarass ourselves in the playoffs,' second best winning percentage for the whole 90s [even taking in Schott's building years and the Gunther years], best takeway advantage by miles.
Maybe if we had a 'Bill Walsh' somewhere, you'd have a point.
But we haven't had Walsh, or Jimmy-J, or Parcells, or Belichek. We had Cowher for a while, but he outgrew his position with us.
Give me Stoops, or Jeff Fisher, and a few years, and maybe I'll have something else to recall fondly. The wing-T and a DV cry-fest ain't doin' it.

Baby Lee
12-18-2006, 05:28 PM
lol, but it was fun to watch so shut your mouth!!! ;)
Those four losses, each worse than the next were no fun at all.
Heck, the wins we eaked out after going 9-0 weren't exactly a picnic either.

FAX
12-18-2006, 05:44 PM
Those four losses, each worse than the next were no fun at all.
Heck, the wins we eaked out after going 9-0 weren't exactly a picnic either.

My greatest fear (other than spiders) is that I'll start looking back on the DV years with nostalgia, Mr. Baby Lee.

At least we had an identity then. Awesome, dangerous offense. Terrible defense. Now we're known as just plain stupid.

FAX

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-18-2006, 05:49 PM
We did plenty besides 'embarass ourselves in the playoffs,' second best winning percentage for the whole 90s [even taking in Schott's building years and the Gunther years], best takeway advantage by miles.
Maybe if we had a 'Bill Walsh' somewhere, you'd have a point.
But we haven't had Walsh, or Jimmy-J, or Parcells, or Belichek. We had Cowher for a while, but he outgrew his position with us.
Give me Stoops, or Jeff Fisher, and a few years, and maybe I'll have something else to recall fondly. The wing-T and a DV cry-fest ain't doin' it.

What did that winning percentage get us? One AFC Championship game in which we were utterly humiliated. Watching Buffalo run the counter trey at Derrick Thomas' side the whole game was mortifying. It's one thing do be outschemed, it's a wholly different animal to know what running play is coming and still have it jammed down your throat.

Now, for the record:

I'm not saying that Vermeil was a great fit for us, but he did the same that Marty did, fail to get us to a Super Bowl, and he did it in 1/2 the time. Marty at least inherited a *pre-cap team* (which allowed far more flexibility to build) with great draft position (which turned into DT) and a defensive playmaker in place (Smith) to build around. Vermeil inherited an All-World TE, and a good OL. Every other aspect of the team was horrendous.

I just don't understand this infatuation with Marty. He didn't do anything that any of the other coaches couldn't do. Going to the playoffs and losing is still losing. Why is reaching a plateau in the playoffs any better than just missing out?

**EDIT** At least the DV years gave us something to hang our hat on--Priest Holmes and the O. Say what you will, for all the ineptitude of the D, it made me proud to know that we had a world-class running back setting NFL records. I look back at that era with a lot more fondness than I do the rather non-descript Marty years where we eeked out a bunch of wins and then collapsed when it mattered most.

Baby Lee
12-18-2006, 05:58 PM
**EDIT** At least the DV years gave us something to hang our hat on--Priest Holmes and the O. Say what you will, for all the ineptitude of the D, it made me proud to know that we had a world-class running back setting NFL records. I look back at that era with a lot more fondness than I do the rather non-descript Marty years where we eeked out a bunch of wins and then collapsed when it mattered most.
And I'd take DT, Neil, Saleamua, Hasty, etc, over our DV offense all day.
But that's because I watch football for bone crunching D, and coincidentally, bone crunching D is what wins the SB.
Say what you will about Marty, but the SB champions, especially the Ravens, Bucs and Panthers of recent years looked a lot more like a Marty team with a few good breaks than air-Coryell or air-Saunders, or the Vikings of the 90s whose high flying O let them down in the playoffs just like Marty's teams did. Even DV's Rams had a #6 D that played like a dominating D in the playoffs [Rams-Bucs in the NFC championship, the SB], and more importantly HAD TO because the O was kept in check, just like all the other high-flying O's in the playoffs.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-18-2006, 06:08 PM
And I'd take DT, Neil, Saleamua, Hasty, etc, over our DV offense all day.
But that's because I watch football for bone crunching D, and coincidentally, bone crunching D is what wins the SB.
Say what you will about Marty, but the SB champions, especially the Ravens, Bucs and Panthers of recent years looked a lot more like a Marty team with a few good breaks than air-Coryell or air-Saunders, or the Vikings of the 90s whose high flying O let them down in the playoffs just like Marty's teams did. Even DV's Rams had a #6 D that played like a dominating D in the playoffs [Rams-Bucs in the NFC championship, the SB], and more importantly HAD TO because the O was kept in check, just like all the other high-flying O's in the playoffs.

Bone Crunching D doesn't win the SB. The Patriots (I assume that was a typo) had a good D, but it wasn't bone crunching. They were 9th in '04, 7th in '03, and 24th in '01.

The Rams D wasn't that good. They forced a lot of TO's, but they had serious weaknesses. You are also overrating the O they played in the NFC championship game. They were QB'd by Shaun f*cking King, who after he left Tampa, couldn't even catch on as a 3rd stringer for more than a year.

I'm not saying that D isn't important. It is, especially run defense, But spending all your eggs on defense isn't a winning formula any more than the Colts formula is right now. It's about balance. Marty never could build a balanced football team in KC, and neither could Vermeil. Just because one had a good D and the other had a good O, it doesn't mean that one is better than the other. Your preference of Marty is a personal bias (liking defensive football), it's not grounded in logic, or what it actually takes to win a SB.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-18-2006, 06:16 PM
Take a look at the Dallas Cowboys and their defense:

'03 Rank #1, first round blowout loss
'01 Rank #2, 5-11
'99 Rank #8, 8-8
'96 and '97 Rank, #2, #2, 16-16

If your theory were in fact correct, these teams should have won the SB.

In 95 and 93 they were 8th and won it all both times. In 94 They were 1st and lost to the 49ers. They won it all in 92 with the #1 D, but they also had the #4 O....they were *balanced*.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-18-2006, 06:19 PM
Denver's 2 SB teams were 4th and 12th, but they also had the #1 and #3 O


Having a good D isn't any more important than having a good O. Your best bet to win the SB is to have both in the top 1/3rd of the league. If you can do that, then you have a great chance. If either one of them isn't in the top third, you are in serious trouble.

BigRedChief
12-18-2006, 09:46 PM
I dunno, those weeks when the Chiefs were on their track to 9-0,.One of my favorite memories was at the end of the game when the players are greeting each other in the middle of the field a spontaneous chant started from the fans that stayed...9 and 0, 9 and 0, 9 and 0. Doesn't look that good in print. Maybe you just had to be there.

BigRedChief
12-19-2006, 08:04 AM
King Carl has us fooled
JOPO article:
Picture, if you will, a football team. This is not any ordinary football team. This is a team that has made the playoffs one time in the last nine years. Once. In nine years. This obviously is not a particularly good football team.

In those nine years, this team has been led by four different head coaches (three defensive guys, one offensive guy), guided by four quarterbacks (all backups from other teams) and has finished, on average, 22nd in the league in total defense.

You have pictured a team in total disarray, yes? Let us divulge that team also has been miserable away from home ó a 25-46 road record over those nine years. No toughness. This team has had just one of its drafted defensive players make the Pro Bowl over that nine-year drought (and that was a fluke, he was on the bench the very next year). This team has not been to a Super Bowl in Lance Armstrongís lifetime.

This team embarrassed itself with a Monday night meltdown on national television. This teamís defensive slapstick inspired the commissioner to joke about them during his annual state of the NFL speech. This team had one coach quit suddenly and go into broadcasting, one coach resign to spend time with his grandkids and a third coach dismissed rather coldly and then brought back to be defensive coordinator.
Close your eyes. You are picturing one of the NFL dregs, right? The Detroit Lions? The Arizona Cardinals? The Houston Texans?
Of course, you know by now ó youíve known all along ó that we are talking about the Kansas City Chiefs. And yet, somehow the Chiefs have avoided being considered one of those NFL dregs. Every home game sells out. People all over town wear red to work every Friday. Every July, no matter how many years since the team has tasted playoff success, Chiefs fans hope again.

How is this possible? You have entered the Chiefs zone.
The rest of the article here:
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/16270526.htm

BigRedChief
01-11-2007, 09:14 AM
Question? Of the drafts from 1998 through 2002 how many starters did we acquire during those 5 drafts????????:

1. Dante Hall
2. Greg Wesley
3. Ryan Sims

You could make the argument that 2 of 3 will get cut in the offseason.

Of the Free Agents that we acquired during that time how many made even an average positve impact on the team?
Vonnie Holliday, Shawn Barber, Dexter McCleon?
Maybe Morton for a year or two. But thats it.

Thats how we got us an old team in 2006.

FringeNC
01-11-2007, 12:26 PM
Every time I log onto ChiefsPlanet, I hope to see a bunch of threads about Carl stepping down (ie, being force out).

This is the first time I have ever thought it possible. When you as a GM have so few playoff wins, and then you get into the playoffs, and all the pundits think you have a real chance....to lay the egg like thie Chiefs did -- that kind of embarrassment heaped on an owner is the type of thing that gets GM and coaches fired.

If you were Clark Hunt, would you fire Peterson? Most of you would say yes. What makes you think Clark is satisfied with the product?

BigRedChief
01-18-2007, 01:59 PM
1989 9-7 (The Marty and King Carl era begins)
1990 11-5 (Lost in the 1st round of the playoffs)
1991 10-6 (Lost in the WC round of the playoffs)
1992 10-6 (Lost in the WC round of the playoffs)
1993 11-5 (Lost in the Divisional round, Montana and Allen era begins)
1994 9-7 (Lost in the AFC championship game. Montana retires)
1995 13-3 (HFA. Lost in the Divisional round. Bono 3 intís. 3 missed FGís)
1996 9-7 (No playoffs)
1997 13-3 (HFA. Lost in the Divisional round to the Broncos. Allen retires.)
1998 7-9 (No playoffs.Gannon to the Raiders. Marty Era is over)
1999 9-7 (Gunther era begins. Needed to beat Oakland at home in the final game. Up 17-0. Lost)
2000 7-9 (No playoffs. Gunn is fired)
2001 6-10 (No playoffs. DV era begins)
2002 8-8 (No playoffs)
2003 13-3 (HFA. Lost in the Divisional round. Never forced a punt)
2004 7-9 (No playoffs)
2005 10-6 (No playoffs. DV retires)
2006 9-7 (Herm era begins. Lost in the WC round of the playoffs)

Chiefs under Marty were 104-49
Gunís Record 16-16
DVís Record 44-36
Hermís Record 9-7
Chiefs after Marty are 69-59

King Carlís regular season record during his rein under 4 different HC and 19 years = 173-135

King Carlís post season record during his rein under 4 different HC and 19 years = 3-9 (All playoff wins were with Joe Montana at QB 93-94)

HolyHandgernade
01-18-2007, 02:24 PM
Since 1996-97 we have not had back to back winning seasons.

Good points, except this one since we went 10-6 last year and 9-7 this year. I know, everybody hates a nitpicker!

-HH

BigRedChief
01-18-2007, 02:26 PM
Good points, except this one since we went 10-6 last year and 9-7 this year. I know, everybody hates a nitpicker!

-HHThe orginal thread was posted in early december.
tattletales are higher up on the hate scale than nitpickers but I just might still alert Skip to your n00b staus. He's aleready upset that the Word association game was brought back up to the front page.

htismaqe
01-18-2007, 02:29 PM
The orginal thread was posted in early december.
tattletales are higher up on the hate scale than nitpickers but I just might still alert Skip to your n00b staus. He's aleready upset that the Word association game was brought back up to the front page.

He's been here twice as long as you have. He's hardly a n00b. ;)

BigRedChief
01-18-2007, 02:32 PM
He's been here twice as long as you have. He's hardly a n00b. ;)I was just playing around. If he's been around for awhile then he knows I don't usually pile on n00bs. It's Skip's definition of a n00b I was sarcastically lampooning. I know.I know. Humor is not my thing. Leave it to the professionals.

Logical
01-18-2007, 02:42 PM
Every time I log onto ChiefsPlanet, I hope to see a bunch of threads about Carl stepping down (ie, being force out).

This is the first time I have ever thought it possible. When you as a GM have so few playoff wins, and then you get into the playoffs, and all the pundits think you have a real chance....to lay the egg like thie Chiefs did -- that kind of embarrassment heaped on an owner is the type of thing that gets GM and coaches fired.

If you were Clark Hunt, would you fire Peterson? Most of you would say yes. What makes you think Clark is satisfied with the product?
$$$$

HolyHandgernade
01-18-2007, 02:49 PM
Oh, sorry, didn't see the date, my bad, no worries!

-HH

FringeNC
01-18-2007, 02:55 PM
$$$$

I'm not sure that is a valid reason anymore. The NFL has become so popular that even the shit teams sellout their games.

BigRedChief
11-25-2007, 08:14 PM
Still a valid opinion today. Even more so today than back before the season started.

King Carls failure to draft a DT cost us 4 picks in the 1st and 2nd rounds. We could have used those picks to shore up the OL.

We re-signed Tony G, Let Priest keep his money, didn't trade LJ, Harris is looking like Kendrell Bell 2, The LT we are paying what $5 million a year can't block. I could go on but you get the picture.

He'll never be fired but he could voluntarily move on to some CEO emeirtus position with in the Chiefs and let a football guy be the GM.

Fruit Ninja
11-25-2007, 08:15 PM
He's not going to go a damn place.

Bowser
11-25-2007, 08:17 PM
He's not going to go a damn place.

Truth. Not voluntarily.

JohninGpt
11-25-2007, 08:19 PM
I'm not sure that is a valid reason anymore. The NFL has become so popular that even the shit teams sellout their games.
Uhmmm, that would be us this year.

BigRedChief
11-26-2007, 06:50 AM
Truth. Not voluntarily.
Wellll it is possible to be forced out by Clark and still be a public "vouluntary" retirement.

He could be forced to relingish the GM role and retain the CEO title and run the business but let someone else make football player decisions.

He could be given some BS CEO emeritus title and a golden parachute and he might walk away "voluntarily".

BigRedChief
12-15-2008, 05:06 PM
In honor of this momentous day. A very happy bump.