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gblowfish
12-10-2006, 07:53 PM
Well, looks like another season down the dumper after today. I could tell after they missed the field goal in the first quarter this wasn't going to be our day.

I started thinking about the King Carl era, and trying to get a grip on why everybody thinks the Chiefs have been so "good" during his tenure. The merger was in 1970. The darkest days of the Chiefs were basically from 1972 to 1988. I think we're just a game or two better now than we were in the dark days, but whether you finish 6-10 like back then, or 9-7 like now, the result is the same. You're watching other people play on TV in January.

There's a lot of weirdness, like the schedule used to be 14 games, there was a strike shortened season, etc. But in basic terms, comparing eras, it goes like this:

The Merger/Dark Days (1970-1988): Chiefs had one of their best teams in 1971, lost the epic Christmas Day game to Miami, then 15 year playoff drougt. Team was a doormat for most of those years. Record over 19 year span: 128-158-6. That's about a 48% winning percentage, so let's say generously they averaged being 7-7 with a 14 game schedule.

That means mediocre draft position year after year, drafting somewhere in the middle of the pack. Chiefs played in only 2 playoff games in 19 years, lost them both.

King Carl Era: Let's say generously the Chiefs wind up 9-7 this year. That would be 17 years of King Carl's 5 year plan to win the Superbowl.
If we go 9-7, team record would be 170-117-1, which would mean an average won-loss record of 9.5-5.5, so you could say 10-6 or 9-7 is an average year. Usually it takes 11 wins to be assured a playoff berth, you may or may not get in with 10 wins.

Statistically, 9 wins this year (again being generous) would make this year an average KC year. Again, we'll draft somewhere in the middle of the pack, between 16th and 22nd pick most likely. Again, it will be a mediocre position.

In 17 years we've made the playoffs 8 years, but assuming we won't make it this year (pretty safe bet) we will have missed the playoffs 3 years in a row, and only made it once out of the last 9 years. Our overall playoff record in those 17 years was 3-8. No Super Bowl appearances, and only one AFC title game in 1993, which we lost to Buffalo. 1993 (13 years ago) was our last playoff victory, against a team that doesn't even exist anymore, the Houston Oilers.

Why the Chiefs front office continues to think they're all that is beyond me. All you get for the last 37 years is 3 playoff games won, one legit shot at the Super Bowl thirteen years ago, and an average record of just barely below .500 to around .650, both not good enough to make the playoffs.

King Carl's skill seems to be in never totally sucking -his lowest yearly win total was 6-10 in 2001- but never totally sucking means you always draft in the middle, so you don't get impact players. Other franchises like San Fran, Dallas, Oakland and San Diego, have had extreme highs and lows. Other teams seem to manage to avoid total suckage and still have some highs, like Denver, NY Giants and New England.

Every other team in our division (including Seattle if you want to count them before re-alignment) have been to the Super Bowl since the Chiefs.

I just hope Clark Hunt decides he wants to win some hardware for himself, and put some pride back in the family business.

stevieray
12-10-2006, 07:59 PM
Gman...I can't help but think that this town is done with it...

I could be wrong...but everyone I've talked to is fed up.

siberian khatru
12-10-2006, 08:01 PM
Gman...I can't help but think that this town is done with it...

I could be wrong...but everyone I've talked to is fed up.

I remember when you were a big homer (I think). Lately, you've been pretty burned out.

I think that's a bad sign for the franchise.

Mr. Laz
12-10-2006, 08:02 PM
I still think he MADE that field goal


:sulk:

Deberg_1990
12-10-2006, 08:04 PM
Well said....everything ive always wanted to say but couldnt put it in to words as eloquently as you just did.

Lets hope the season ticket holders run this chump out of town once and for all.

stevieray
12-10-2006, 08:04 PM
I remember when you were a big homer (I think). Lately, you've been pretty burned out.

I think that's a bad sign for the franchise.


Oh yeah, I used to get a lot of flak for my homerism...it's getting harder to remain postive.

:(

Mr. Laz
12-10-2006, 08:05 PM
Oh yeah, I used to get a lot of flak for my homerism...it's getting harder to remain postive.

:(
if you buckle who will i have to do battle with? :deevee:

stevieray
12-10-2006, 08:07 PM
if you buckle who will i have to do battle with? :deevee:

:hmmm:

WW and I were nonchalant on the way in this morning...first time ever... :(

siberian khatru
12-10-2006, 08:07 PM
Stevie, if you're still around ...

Did you have trouble getting up for today's game? I know I did, but I was removed from the situation sitting in front of my TV. I didn't have the game-day experience with the crowd to pump me up.

Did you and/or the crowd feel like it was all spent last week?

Mr. Laz
12-10-2006, 08:09 PM
:hmmm:

WW and I were nonchalant on the way in this morning...first time ever... :(
WW did a real good job on his commercial

Coach
12-10-2006, 08:09 PM
Gman...I can't help but think that this town is done with it...

I could be wrong...but everyone I've talked to is fed up.

Same here in the section I was at today. They had little hope, and they were really happy how things were going at the 1st series until the missed FG.

And then by halftime, they were already done. We all knew, in our section, that the Chiefs kept getting chances, but just keep blowing it away.

It sucks.

Bowser
12-10-2006, 08:10 PM
Stevie, if you're still around ...

Did you have trouble getting up for today's game? I know I did, but I was removed from the situation sitting in front of my TV. I didn't have the game-day experience with the crowd to pump me up.

Did you and/or the crowd feel like it was all spent last week?

Not to speak for FDE, but yes. The crowd seemed, I dunno, sullen. Or something.

stevieray
12-10-2006, 08:10 PM
Stevie, if you're still around ...

Did you have trouble getting up for today's game? I know I did, but I was removed from the situation sitting in front of my TV. I didn't have the game-day experience with the crowd to pump me up.

Did you and/or the crowd feel like it was all spent last week?

WW couldn't believe that the crowd even showed up and made noise today...fourth qtr was night and day from the Invesco game.

the fans were very gracious to me ( they always are)...but you can tell there is something under the surface...the energy just wasn't there today.

stevieray
12-10-2006, 08:11 PM
Same here in the section I was at today. They had little hope, and they were really happy how things were going at the 1st series until the missed FG.

And then by halftime, they were already done. We all knew, in our section, that the Chiefs kept getting chances, but just keep blowing it away.

It sucks.


yup...pretty much.

gblowfish
12-10-2006, 08:11 PM
I went to the game today with a very dear friend of mine that I've known since high school. We used to go to Chiefs games together in the Dark Days, when you could literally walk up to the stadium, buy a ticket at the ticket window, and walk in (not even be searched...imagine!)

On the way trudging back to the car after the game I told him I felt 20 years younger...because the feeling I had was the same despair I felt in 1987!

You have to appreciate the good years, because they don't come around very often.

It's a burden, and where the term "long-suffering" comes into play when they talk about "long-suffering Chiefs fans."

dr00d
12-10-2006, 08:12 PM
this is what happens when you hire a mediocre coach.

htismaqe
12-10-2006, 08:12 PM
I think we've all held out hope that Clark will make changes.

I've given up hope for that, too.

I don't think it's ever gonna change until Carl finally kicks off. If that's even possible. He may be undead.

ChiefsCountry
12-10-2006, 08:13 PM
Not to knock alot of you guys, but is it me or is the Chiefs fan base at games getting really old?

milkman
12-10-2006, 08:14 PM
this is what happens when you hire a mediocre GM.

FYP

Bowser
12-10-2006, 08:14 PM
Not to knock alot of you guys, but is it me or is the Chiefs fan base at games getting really old?

Not where I sit. It's a frickin' sea of hot twentysomethings.

Coach
12-10-2006, 08:16 PM
I think we've all held out hope that Clark will make changes.

I've given up hope for that, too.

I don't think it's ever gonna change until Carl finally kicks off. If that's even possible. He may be undead.

I'm afraid you're right.

Christ, if I had some $400+ million dollars, I would try to buy the Chiefs franchise, and if I somehow succeed, and that I am the new owner, I know who exactly to shitcan, immediately.

I don't know, I just feel that the shit that the FO's been doing for years is really getting old, that it's time for new blood. Carl's not the worst GM out there, sure, but he's like the Marty of GMs or the DeBerg (one of my favorites) of QBs... just good enough to get you beat.

He's a journeyman. He doesn't have the vision, tenacity, or creativity (I'd take one of the three) to win it all. All he cares is money.

Next, please.

Deberg_1990
12-10-2006, 08:17 PM
Not where I sit. It's a frickin' sea of hot twentysomethings.

That might be a problem then. Im thinking even if most of the old timers give up their season tix to try and prove a point to Carl, there are probably 10 others waiting in line to buy them up.



Ill have to call my buddies up in KC to see if they are planning to renew or not???

Coach
12-10-2006, 08:17 PM
Not to knock alot of you guys, but is it me or is the Chiefs fan base at games getting really old?

In the section I was, there was a mixture of old and young.

siberian khatru
12-10-2006, 08:18 PM
I'm afraid you're right.

Christ, if I had some $400+ million dollars, I would try to buy the Chiefs franchise, and if I somehow succeed, and that I am the new owner, I know who exactly to shitcan, immediately.



Like what Jerry Jones did to the Cowboys.

Simplex3
12-10-2006, 08:26 PM
I think we've all held out hope that Clark will make changes.

I've given up hope for that, too.

I don't think it's ever gonna change until Carl finally kicks off. If that's even possible. He may be undead.
Clark only cares about the check he gets from football. Thanksgiving night the guy and his family missed the start of the game to light the Plaza lights. Ok, I'll give him a little of that. What I couldn't believe was, with "his" team in the thick of the playoff hunt, and a huge division game, on national TV with the first Thanksgiving day game at Arrowhead in forever, the guy and his family didn't so much as have a Chiefs pin on their Armani coats. As long as he's getting fat checks from King Carl he'll keep him around.

Real fans should start looking around for an owner/gm/coach/team that care about winning, because this team will do nothing but continue to disappoint.

milkman
12-10-2006, 08:28 PM
Real fans should start looking around for an owner/gm/coach/team that care about winning, because this team will do nothing but continue to disappoint.

There are times when I wish it were that simple.

htismaqe
12-10-2006, 08:32 PM
There are times when I wish it were that simple.

Me too.

tommykat
12-10-2006, 08:34 PM
Just IMO......69 Super Bowl sums this up~

Yup you understand...:#

Coach
12-10-2006, 08:44 PM
Hey, at least some people in here somewhat understand now how Cubs fans feel.

Jeez, I almost threw up typing that.

Dark Horse
12-10-2006, 08:44 PM
Thats why we are die hard fans. Next year we are gonna get pissed about the lack of off season moves, grumble about the price of tickets, bitch about year 18 of the 5 year plan and then go fill the stadium and keep it the loudest in the NFL once again. Then come December when we are once again eliminated from the playoffs we will swear never again again.

milkman
12-10-2006, 08:44 PM
Just IMO......69 Super Bowl sums this up~

Yup you understand...:#

We do? :shrug:

Simplex3
12-10-2006, 08:49 PM
Thats why we are die hard fans. Next year we are gonna get pissed about the lack of off season moves, grumble about the price of tickets, bitch about year 18 of the 5 year plan and then go fill the stadium and keep it the loudest in the NFL once again. Then come December when we are once again eliminated from the playoffs we will swear never again again.
Speak for yourself. The Chiefs haven't gotten a nickel out of me except for the TV money they get in years. I'm going to keep it that way until Carl is gone.

I'm doing my part. :)

tommykat
12-10-2006, 08:50 PM
We do? :shrug:

:hmmm: you don't understand 69? ROFL

Dark Horse
12-10-2006, 08:56 PM
Speak for yourself. The Chiefs haven't gotten a nickel out of me except for the TV money they get in years. I'm going to keep it that way until Carl is gone.

I'm doing my part. :)

King Carl would brand you a traitor and banish you from Valhalla for that. :fire:

milkman
12-10-2006, 08:59 PM
:hmmm: you don't understand 69? ROFL

I know what the '69-'70 Chiefs did.
I have been watching the Chiefs since I was a 4 year old in '63.

I don't have a clue what your point is.

headsnap
12-10-2006, 09:09 PM
apathy is what I feel. I wasn't a fan of Herm before he was hired, but I tried to be upbeat and support him. This team is downright ****ING BORING1!!!!!

Last week I was on a cruise ship watching for updates on the Chiefs game. Today, even though I have Sunday Ticket, I opted for a trip to Indy to race BMX with the kids. I DIDN"T CARE ABOUT THE GAME. that hasn't happened in 15+ years!



I will do without the Sunday Ticket next year. Time with the family is much more important and fulfilling...

the Talking Can
12-10-2006, 09:16 PM
god bless lamar, but his refusal to fire CP has cost us a decade of failure...

I see no hope for the immediate future either...Herm is mediocre, CP is blind to his failure....no one with any courage or daring or desire is in a position to change this franchise...

my interest will remain, but it is lukewarm...everyone but CP and Lamar see the problem....

we need new blood at the top and new blood on the field and there is basically zero chance of getting it

Coach
12-10-2006, 09:20 PM
god bless lamar, but his refusal to fire CP has cost us a decade of failure...

I see no hope for the immediate future either...Herm is mediocre, CP is blind to his failure....no one with any courage or daring or desire is in a position to change this franchise...

my interest will remain, but it is lukewarm...everyone but CP and Lamar see the problem....

we need new blood at the top and new blood on the field and there is basically zero chance of getting it

That's exactly how I feel. I don't mean any disrespect to Lamar by any way, but his refusal to remove/fire/dismiss Carl has costed the Chiefs a decade of failure, except for making the accountant happy with $.

We've seen this same goddamn act for some 16+ straight years. The Chiefs, 7-6, are always just f**king good enough to make us believe that they may be able to sneak into the playoffs.

You and I ****ing know, the Chiefs aren't good enough to sneak back into the goddamned playoffs. Certainly, the Chiefs are no threat to win a Super Bowl.

I'm f**king tired of it, and if Lamar, or Clark (Who will be the new Owner once Lamar's time is passed) can't come to realization that Carl isn't a great GM, then they're guilty as much as Carl and Jack Steadman is.

Logical
12-10-2006, 09:24 PM
gblowfish,

Excellent analysis. You did a fine job of summing up the history

Simplex3
12-10-2006, 09:26 PM
That's exactly how I feel. I don't mean any disrespect to Lamar by any way, but his refusal to remove/fire/dismiss Carl has costed the Chiefs a decade of failure, except for making the accountant happy with $.

We've seen this same goddamn act for some 16+ straight years. The Chiefs, 7-6, are always just f**king good enough to make us believe that they may be able to sneak into the playoffs.
I'm not going to hang the Marty years on there, we had two or three teams with a shot at the Super Bowl. However, when Carl hired f**king Goonther for HC and then totally botched his firing Lamar should have sent Carl out the door with him.

NewChief
12-10-2006, 09:29 PM
Gman...I can't help but think that this town is done with it...

I could be wrong...but everyone I've talked to is fed up.

It was pretty noticeable at the stadium today, I thought. People were pretty down and fed up before the game even started. People seemed pretty disgusted even prior to the loss. I shudder to think about the atmosphere on New Years if we lose to the Raiders (which better not happen). That win might give people a pick me up, but I admit that I've never felt Arrowhead quite that...dejected before. Of course, I might just be projecting my own mood onto the fans. Regardless, I'm pretty detached from the team, front office, and fans at this point.

Logical
12-10-2006, 09:32 PM
There are times when I wish it were that simple.

I know exactly what you mean. It would be easy you would think to hop on the Charger bandwagon yet I cannot. I still watch the Chiefs and long for a true champion caliber team.

stevieray
12-10-2006, 09:33 PM
It was pretty noticeable at the stadium today, I thought. People were pretty down and fed up before the game even started. People seemed pretty disgusted even prior to the loss. I shudder to think about the atmosphere on New Years if we lose to the Raiders (which better not happen). That win might give people a pick me up, but I admit that I've never felt Arrowhead quite that...dejected before. Of course, I might just be projecting my own mood onto the fans. Regardless, I'm pretty detached from the team, front office, and fans at this point.


no, I think you are spot on.

Coach
12-10-2006, 09:37 PM
It was pretty noticeable at the stadium today, I thought. People were pretty down and fed up before the game even started. People seemed pretty disgusted even prior to the loss. I shudder to think about the atmosphere on New Years if we lose to the Raiders (which better not happen). That win might give people a pick me up, but I admit that I've never felt Arrowhead quite that...dejected before. Of course, I might just be projecting my own mood onto the fans. Regardless, I'm pretty detached from the team, front office, and fans at this point.

As I mentioned on page 1 (I think), I agree. The energy just wasn't there. Alot of people in the section I was was really in a foul mood. Some guys to my left were waving the bird up at the air, more of towards the pressbox area.

The fans just gave up just like that when Tynes missed the FG. We all knew that it wasn't our day.

the Talking Can
12-10-2006, 09:38 PM
Fans aren't dumb....loyal, but not dumb

they know the problems go right to the top...Herm is going to regret coming here....he will be the last bad memory of Carl's reign of failure...

we've never recovered from DT's death...you can't fake magic, you can't fake enthusiam....everyone knows we've been coasting on fumes for a decade...except, unfortunately CP and Lamar...

stevieray
12-10-2006, 09:39 PM
we've never recovered from DT's death..

and there it is.

NewChief
12-10-2006, 09:40 PM
As I mentioned on page 1 (I think), I agree. The energy just wasn't there. Alot of people in the section I was was really in a foul mood. Some guys to my left were waving the bird up at the air, more of towards the pressbox area.

The fans just gave up just like that when Tynes missed the FG. We all knew that it wasn't our day.

It's pretty bad when the boobirds come out for the naming of our probowl cheerleader selection.

the Talking Can
12-10-2006, 09:42 PM
It's pretty bad when the boobirds come out for the naming of our probowl cheerleader selection.

ROFL

that is funny....probowl cheerleaders? another claim to Carl's fame?

how perfect

Coach
12-10-2006, 09:42 PM
It's pretty bad when the boobirds come out for the naming of our probowl cheerleader selection.

Oh man, tell me about it. I was like waiting for a Santa Claus to show up where that we'd pull a Philly on a Santa Claus.

I shudder to think what could had potentionally happened if there was snow in the stadium.

Dark Horse
12-10-2006, 09:45 PM
Oh man, tell me about it. I was like waiting for a Santa Claus to show up where that we'd pull a Philly on a Santa Claus.

I shudder to think what could had potentionally happened if there was snow in the stadium.

In Philly they would have booed the PP&K kids

Coach
12-10-2006, 09:46 PM
In Philly they would have booed the PP&K kids

Oh hell, they'll boo at anything that moves.

the Talking Can
12-10-2006, 09:46 PM
and there it is.

off topic, but...

this is why DT is a hall of famer....this is what stats can't measure and what idiot east coast sports writers will never understand....DT was the blood pumping through Arrowhead....the god damned definition of a hall of famer

stevieray
12-10-2006, 09:48 PM
off topic, but...

this is why DT is a hall of famer....this is what stats can't measure and what idiot east coast sports writers will never understand....DT was the blood pumping through Arrowhead....the god damned definition of a hall of famer

exactly...you just knew it was a matter of time before he made another big play.

:deevee:

Dark Horse
12-10-2006, 09:50 PM
Oh hell, they'll boo at anything that moves.

I don't usually boo even the opposing team. Today I booed a lot.

Coach
12-10-2006, 09:53 PM
I don't usually boo even the opposing team. Today I booed a lot.

I did too as well, and normally, I don't boo alot.

At one point, I literally yelled at the players that They should just go ****ing home, because you don't feel like playing." And they should had, because they were just flat.

I also yelled "IF THIS WASN'T F**KIN CONCRETE AND SEATS, I'D DIG A GRAVE FOR MYSELF!"

NewChief
12-10-2006, 09:55 PM
I don't usually boo even the opposing team. Today I booed a lot.

I refrained, but I was booing on the inside.

Deberg_1990
12-10-2006, 10:38 PM
we've never recovered from DT's death...you can't fake magic, you can't fake enthusiam....everyone knows we've been coasting on fumes for a decade...except, unfortunately CP and Lamar...


ehhh.....thats just an excuse......to be fair, CP did try and move past the DT era by bringing in Vermeil.


I dont think anybody sits around at Arrowhead saying "whoa is me, where it DT??"

Coach
12-10-2006, 10:39 PM
I dont think anybody sits around at Arrowhead saying "whoa is me, where it DT??"

No, but I think alot of us do this.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/SwedeCarlson/Chiefs/eeyorel.jpg

jidar
12-10-2006, 10:53 PM
This must be what Jesus felt like.

DenverChief
12-11-2006, 12:07 AM
I still think he MADE that field goal


:sulk:


I agree

Dallas Chief
12-11-2006, 12:23 AM
and there it is.
That statement completely floored me...

Straight, No Chaser
12-11-2006, 12:36 AM
Oh hell, they'll boo at anything that moves.


They had good reason to boo Santa, the rest has reached legendary status.

Philly lost their first 11 games in 1968, then winning 2, which prevented the team from getting first pick in the next draft, O.J. Simpson. During the half time show when Santa was returning back to the tunnel he was booed and fans threw snowballs during the halftime show. Ed Rendell, at the game as a fan, admitted later that he too threw snowballs at Santa that afternoon. Funny story, but if I was a fan after 11 losses, sitting on snow in the stands watching a sorry excuse for Santa Claus waving at me I might have thrown snow too.


-->

Calcountry
12-11-2006, 12:43 PM
I still think he MADE that field goal


:sulk:The ref made the call before it even went through. He wasn't looking at it, he based his call on the trajectory and not where the ball was.

We got jobbed on that.

Calcountry
12-11-2006, 12:47 PM
I went to the game today with a very dear friend of mine that I've known since high school. We used to go to Chiefs games together in the Dark Days, when you could literally walk up to the stadium, buy a ticket at the ticket window, and walk in (not even be searched...imagine!)

On the way trudging back to the car after the game I told him I felt 20 years younger...because the feeling I had was the same despair I felt in 1987!

You have to appreciate the good years, because they don't come around very often.

It's a burden, and where the term "long-suffering" comes into play when they talk about "long-suffering Chiefs fans."I think I will now jump on the Saints bandwaggon. They have never been nor won a Super Bowl, and I can empathise with their fans better than any of the other suckers in the NFL.

NewChief
12-11-2006, 12:51 PM
TFunny story, but if I was a fan after 11 losses, sitting on snow in the stands watching a sorry excuse for Santa Claus waving at me I might have thrown snow too.


That's pretty much how I felt yesterday every time the T-shirt shooter would start up. They really chose crappy times to do it. It always seemed like it was after a turnover or a big gain by the other team, as if they were trying to distract the fans from their misery.

dirk digler
12-11-2006, 12:58 PM
This thread is depressing.

gblowfish
12-11-2006, 04:38 PM
This thread is depressing.
Well, if we look for silver linings from yesterday:

Pretty sure Wesley, Sims and Kendrell Bell are gone after this year.

Soon they'll start doing stadium improvements to Arrowhead. That should be interesting.

Every game we lose is a better draft pick!

The Chiefs Cheerleaders still wear skimpy outfits, and it's getting colder out...



OK...

I got nothin...

the Talking Can
12-11-2006, 04:39 PM
This thread is depressing.

too many apostrophes