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CASHMAN
12-11-2006, 02:32 PM
Is there any on here and if so, wanted to get the pros & cons of the job
.



CASHMAN.

Iowanian
12-11-2006, 02:33 PM
You going to sell chevette's with dale mercer and rexjake?

CASHMAN
12-11-2006, 02:34 PM
You going to sell chevette's with dale mercer and rexjake?


NO ROFL .




CASHMAN.

Saulbadguy
12-11-2006, 02:36 PM
Pro? You get to meet new and interesting people every day.

Con? You are pretty much a dipshit loser.

Fairplay
12-11-2006, 02:37 PM
Dale "Fat Fingers" Mercer can help you. Hes that shady looking character at the car lot.

chagrin
12-11-2006, 02:39 PM
I made 4,000 a month selling Honda's, it can be a good job, especially if you are in need - Car Dealership's are almost always hiring

foxman
12-11-2006, 02:41 PM
A good car guy can make a lucrative income and have a job anywhere in the country the same day he goes to find one.

I have been in the business since 1993, feel free to PM me if you have specific questions.

Cochise
12-11-2006, 02:41 PM
At Edmunds, they have an article you can read called "Confessions of Car Salesman".

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html

It's mostly written so buyers can read it and understand how dealers build profit into deals, but it gives you an idea of what the job might be like.

boogblaster
12-11-2006, 02:46 PM
If you like sticking your Woody into all open-holes with no remorse..it's the job for you....

foxman
12-11-2006, 02:52 PM
If you like sticking your Woody into all open-holes with no remorse..it's the job for you....

If you have had a bad experiance or 12 then do your homework next time, but not all car salesman are that way. In fact in my 13 years I have met 100 times more sleezy customers than salesman.

HemiEd
12-11-2006, 03:35 PM
Halfcan sells used Datsuns I think.

patteeu
12-11-2006, 04:07 PM
If you have had a bad experiance or 12 then do your homework next time, but not all car salesman are that way. In fact in my 13 years I have met 100 times more sleezy customers than salesman.

I have to admit that I find that hard to believe. What are some examples of sleazy customers?

Simplex3
12-11-2006, 04:15 PM
I have to admit that I find that hard to believe. What are some examples of sleazy customers?
Customers like me who don't pull their pants down and hand over the check book when they walk through the door.

Cochise
12-11-2006, 04:20 PM
Customers like me who don't pull their pants down and hand over the check book when they walk through the door.

d00d you're supposed to just pay sticker price plus all the BS fees.

wilas101
12-11-2006, 04:26 PM
Halfcan sells used Datsuns I think.


I thought halfcan just repainted and fixed up used Datsuns for hot chicks. :evil:

Fairplay
12-11-2006, 04:29 PM
At Edmunds, they have an article you can read called "Confessions of Car Salesman".

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html





I read several pages into the article good read. I've been through a few of the traps the car salesmen mentioned in it.

I will finish the rest later, it is a touch depressing actually.

Rain Man
12-11-2006, 04:34 PM
I have to admit that I find that hard to believe. What are some examples of sleazy customers?

I bet if you do a search on "bwana" and "ditch pig", you could find a good one.

My dad has sold lower-end used cars for 20 years, and he's got some very compelling stories, though I never ask him for them because it just makes him mad when he starts reminiscing.

The whole carbuying process is nothing but trouble. It puts everybody in a position of distrust with each other. The next time I buy a car, I'm going to import some sort of arabian rug salesman to negotiate the deal for me and pay him 20 percent of what he saves.

CrazyHorse
12-11-2006, 04:39 PM
I have a little experience.

One bit of advice might be to work on the used car side if it's a new and used lot. The used cars have more mark up which should translate into better commissions per sale.

Car salesmen, as well as many types of sales jobs take stability to grow. What I mean, is that many of the car salesmen I worked with would work one lot for a few months, then they would go to one of the other lots across town.

After staying on the same job for a 2+ years you start to get a few repeat customers that are ready to trace thier vehicle for another. These folks will be looking for you when the return. This is considered your "warm" market. It's easier to close a repeat customer than one you approached on the lot.

Build your repeat business and the car biz can be a good job.

Gonzo
12-11-2006, 04:41 PM
Remember the most important line a car salesmen will use, "You know, for the price of a candy-bar a day, you could get the leather seats."

siberian khatru
12-11-2006, 04:46 PM
I read several pages into the article good read. I've been through a few of the traps the car salesmen mentioned in it.

I will finish the rest later, it is a touch depressing actually.

I found it VERY depressing. And praying that I don't have to buy another vehicle for a long, long time.

penchief
12-11-2006, 05:06 PM
I actually sold cars for a year. I did well enough but I hated the job. I ended up hating nearly everything about it. I think it depends on your personality. It seemed like I worked with a lot of dishonest people.

When everybody's working off of commission you get some pretty sleazy crap going on. Salespeople were constantly stabbing each other in the back, stealing each others deals, and misleading the customers.

I always found it distasteful to turn a customer over to the finance department. They're job was to screw everybody as much as they could get away with. Usually that meant they screwed those who could least afford to get screwed.

Out of curiousity, is this your idea or were you recruited by someone at a dealership?

Fairplay
12-11-2006, 05:14 PM
I have talked to people who were car salesmen then got out of it.

They basically said the same thing. They couldn't deal with the dishonesty that was a way of life to them.

Some people can do that and not think nothing of it i suppose.

PastorMikH
12-11-2006, 05:15 PM
Halfcan sells used Datsuns I think.



Really! I did not know that. I may have to give him a call. I'm needed another car and anything that says Datsun has already lasted longer and gone further on less $ than anything made by the Chrysler Corp.


:)




I'll never forget the night I was in my little Datsun 510 wagon with a 1600 cc powerplant and smoked a Dodge 440 in stoplight dragging. The cop that pulled me over for winning was rather impressed.

:D

Luke
12-11-2006, 05:31 PM
I have sold cars for a living twice in my life, both times it sucked. Be prepred to spend long hours, have sales mgrs cut your throat, and generaly have no family life. You will make more money selling used cars than new. Most dealerships love to hire "green peas" knowing that they will be good for at least 3 to 4 deals in their immediate family.

On the plus side I did get to meet several Chief players back when Marty was buying cars in Blue Springs.

Bob Dole
12-11-2006, 05:45 PM
Halfcan sells used Datsuns I think.

That's got to be a tough living, since there hasn't been a Datsun produced since about 1983...

Rain Man
12-11-2006, 06:20 PM
That's got to be a tough living, since there hasn't been a Datsun produced since about 1983...

Supply is low. Brilliant!

DomerNKC
12-11-2006, 06:52 PM
Pro? You get to meet new and interesting people every day.

Con? You are pretty much a dipshit loser.You could always be a computer geek like this dweeb...http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=59957&stc=1

Bwana
12-11-2006, 07:00 PM
Heh, I don't miss it. ;)

PastorMikH
12-11-2006, 07:19 PM
Interesting read. I'm about half-way through right now. Funny how it describes my cousin to a tee - white shirt, silk tie, gold jewelry, and as a manager, he does sit in an elevated box.:)




This goes to show that you just can't trust car salesmen. I heard of this salesman that one time actually sold a Honda with a standard transmission to a sweet little lady that told him she didn't know how to drive a stick. He told her that the car shifted on it's own once she got going and she wouldn't have to worry about shifting. When she burned the motor up listening to his salespitch, he refused to fix it for her.

:fire: :evil:

Bwana
12-11-2006, 07:22 PM
Interesting read. I'm about half-way through right now. Funny how it describes my cousin to a tee - white shirt, silk tie, gold jewelry, and as a manager, he does sit in an elevated box.:)




This goes to show that you just can't trust car salesmen. I heard of this salesman that one time actually sold a Honda with a standard transmission to a sweet little lady that told him she didn't know how to drive a stick. He told her that the car shifted on it's own once she got going and she wouldn't have to worry about shifting. When she burned the motor up listening to his salespitch, he refused to fix it for her.

:fire: :evil:

Mike Mike Mike :shake:

LMAO

PastorMikH
12-11-2006, 07:23 PM
Mike Mike Mike :shake:

LMAO




That wasn't how the story went?

LMAO LMAO

Bwana
12-11-2006, 07:31 PM
That wasn't how the story went?

LMAO LMAO

From what I can see, it would depend on who's telliing it you ornery bugger. :grr:

headsnap
12-11-2006, 07:38 PM
If you have a family, DON'T DO IT!!!






been there, done that...

PastorMikH
12-11-2006, 07:38 PM
From what I can see, it would depend on who's telliing it you ornery bugger. :grr:



:) :) :)


So, what ended up happening? Did you get it taken care of or did you finally have to pay anyway?

Simply Red
12-11-2006, 07:40 PM
You going to sell chevette's with dale mercer and rexjake?

Heh,
That or Gremlins.

Bwana
12-11-2006, 07:43 PM
:) :) :)


So, what ended up happening? Did you get it taken care of or did you finally have to pay anyway?

It cost me less money to pay them off than it would have to go to court and (get this) win. The sad thing is, I would have easily won the darn thing too. The system is soooooooooo messed up Mike. When I got a letter to come in for jury duty after it was all said and done on another ease, I was still so mad I tossed it in the round file and didn't reply. Hey, at least I'll have a nice tax write off this year. ;)

Archie F. Swin
12-11-2006, 07:44 PM
Interesting read. I'm about half-way through right now. Funny how it describes my cousin to a tee - white shirt, silk tie, gold jewelry, and as a manager, he does sit in an elevated box.:)


your cousin's the Pope?!


that makes your career choice interesting!

Simply Red
12-11-2006, 07:48 PM
I honestly think it'd be a good chance to start a career that may help you get into higher-tiered automobile sales like Porsche or one of that caliber.

RJ
12-11-2006, 08:03 PM
I have to admit that I find that hard to believe. What are some examples of sleazy customers?



About 25 years ago, when I first started in sales (not cars), I had a customer who was a car salesman. For no apparent reason he said to me, "people say salesmen lie, but the customers lie a lot more". As time went by I gradually learned what he had meant. The lies vary but common ones would be about prices or services offered by competitors. Interestingly, most people will recount tales of their lies to salespeople, often even exaggerate them, to show how shrewd or clever they are in negotiating and purchasing. Of course, if a salesperson were to do the same to them they'd be (rightly) incensed. The point is that honesty in business is a two way street.


Personally, I've found that honesty in selling is far more profitable in the long term than lies. Lying to customers, in fact, is the quickest way to a short sales career. It catches up fast. And as someone mentioned in another post, the easiest sale is the repeat customer who was happy with your products and services before. As to customers who lie, when a salesman has a good trade built up he can afford to broom the people he isn't comfortable dealing with......which takes time but is kinda nice when you get there.

Baconeater
12-11-2006, 08:34 PM
At Edmunds, they have an article you can read called "Confessions of Car Salesman".

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/articles/42962/article.html

It's mostly written so buyers can read it and understand how dealers build profit into deals, but it gives you an idea of what the job might be like.
I read that a couple years ago, it's a definite must-read. I'm pretty sure that's where I learned what a "yank" is. The salesmen aren't the evil ones, it's the finance guys that are the scumbags. If that's not enough to scare the hell out of anyone who wants to buy a car, I recommend going to ripoffreport.com (http://ripoffreport.com/) and do a search for "car dealers" and reading some of the horror stories there.

foxman
12-12-2006, 09:08 AM
I have to admit that I find that hard to believe. What are some examples of sleazy customers?

First thing to understand is that in life you get out of it what you put into in generaly speaking. I decided early on that the Car business had it's reputation and that did not have to define me. As was said previously, if you treat people the way you would want to be treated then they will respect you. Respect will not in and of itself sell cars, but it helps. Respect is what has kept me in the business for as long as it has. I have served in this business in many capacities and am currently dealing with commercial customer's who are no less demanding, but much easier to deal with.

At any rate, it is because of the reputation that most people are jerks when they come into a dealership and I understand that, although that doesnt discount the fact that even though you are simply trying to earn their business by being upfont and honest they continue to act like idiots.

I have even heard it said that when buying a car even a preacher leaves his Bible at home. I doubt that is true for all, but I know the majority will do anything just short of selling their own grandmother to get a deal. So, my statement was to that buyer, which represents no less than 50% of the retail customer's, who will tell you anything or do anything to save a buc or two.

Please don't misunderstand, I realize that there are bad apples in this and every other business, but to assume that more than 20% of the selling industry is that way would be rediculous. As I said originaly, the sleaziest people I have met, have almost always been the customer, who as I said are almost willing to do anything to save a buc.

Cochise
12-12-2006, 09:51 AM
I read that a couple years ago, it's a definite must-read. I'm pretty sure that's where I learned what a "yank" is. The salesmen aren't the evil ones, it's the finance guys that are the scumbags. If that's not enough to scare the hell out of anyone who wants to buy a car, I recommend going to ripoffreport.com (http://ripoffreport.com/) and do a search for "car dealers" and reading some of the horror stories there.

Glad everyone liked that article. I thought it was pretty fair and gave both sides.

Not looking forward to buying a new rig here before too long...

PastorMikH
12-12-2006, 10:03 AM
When shopping for a replacement van for our '98 Safari, we had some interesting experiences.

We started off heading out for OK City. We stopped off at a dealership in Yukon at a GM dealer that had 2 Astros sitting on their lot. I was kinda surprised that a salesman didn't chase my van across the lot as I drove over to the vans. I looked the 2 vans over for quite a while before anyone ventured out. Finally, about the time I'm thinking they must not want to talk to us, out comes a salesman. I asked him about the Red van with Gold trim (:thumb:) and he tells me they want $12.9 for it and it's a '01 has 34K miles on it. I talked to him for a bit to see what his best price was (I wasn't getting carried away Foxman;), after having a cousin that manages a dealership, I know there is usually a lower price than the first one stated). He said that was the best they could do and after visiting a bit more told us if there was anything else he could do for us to let him know. He handed me his card as I climbed into our van and waved as we drove off.

We headed on into the city. And made quick circles of lots, managing to escape the dealership property before the salesmen running after us could catch up. One lot though we were driving through, the car in front of us stopped. THEY STOPPED!!!! There wasn't room to get around them. Not only did they get hammered by salesmen, we had one on each side of the van, one trying to talk to the wife through her window and one trying to talk to me through mine. Luckily they didn't have what we wanted and when they heard what I thought about Chrysler products they surrendered and walked off.

One dealership actually had an Astro. As we pulled up to it, here comes the guy. He's really helpful. We go for a test drive. Then he wants me to take a spin with him in mine. He notices all kinds of things wrong with it - it's odd that the only problem it had other than high mileage he didn't catch. He takes us inside, keeping my keys of course, and starts talking to us about the deal he could offer us. The van was a 2004 Astro 4wd loaded with about 8k miles on it. They want 18k for it. I tell them that's more than we can afford - we were looking for something between 10k and 13k. He crunches numbers, gets us down to taking our van in trade and 17K. When I told him thanks for his time, he told us to hold on, and slips back out. He brings his sales manager in. That guy starts talking. They talk, show me a "deal" to which I say no to, head back out, talk and come back in with another "deal". After a while, I divulge to them that I had found another van, told them the deal but not where, and the salesman flat out called me a liar and that if such a van really existed he'd buy it so he can make 4-5k on it. That's when I had it. We'd been there for 2+ hours at this point. The manager realized the salesman crossed the line with me and the price dropped considerable. He offered us the van at 15K and would give me an aditional 2k for my van. By this point though, I had made up my mind that if they gave me their van for free I wouldn't take it. We got up and asked for our keys. They stalled, left the room, came back, tried another pitch and I had to speak in a loud, forceful tone "I WANT MY KEYS NOW!". They were really, really mad at me for not taking their deal. The first salesman was glaring angrily at me and his tone had changed completely from when we first met - he told me we had wasted his afternoon and he could have been selling cars to people that wanted them. I told him we tried to leave an hour sooner and he wouldn't let us. We were both glad when we got back into our van and pulled out.

We ended up going back to the first dealership. I went inside, found the salesman I talked to, and told him we were interested in his van. We test-drove it and bought it at $12.9.

When I get ready to buy again, if he's still selling at that dealership I will go back and talk to him again.

Nzoner
12-12-2006, 10:12 AM
About 25 years ago, when I first started in sales (not cars), I had a customer who was a car salesman. For no apparent reason he said to me, "people say salesmen lie, but the customers lie a lot more". As time went by I gradually learned what he had meant. The lies vary but common ones would be about prices or services offered by competitors. Interestingly, most people will recount tales of their lies to salespeople, often even exaggerate them, to show how shrewd or clever they are in negotiating and purchasing. Of course, if a salesperson were to do the same to them they'd be (rightly) incensed. The point is that honesty in business is a two way street.


Personally, I've found that honesty in selling is far more profitable in the long term than lies. Lying to customers, in fact, is the quickest way to a short sales career. It catches up fast. And as someone mentioned in another post, the easiest sale is the repeat customer who was happy with your products and services before. As to customers who lie, when a salesman has a good trade built up he can afford to broom the people he isn't comfortable dealing with......which takes time but is kinda nice when you get there.


From someone who has been in sales 25+ years I couldn't have said it better myself.

I learned a long time ago there's a very fine line between being a great salesman or a great con-man.Learning to be a great salesman will keep you in the business as a career.

patteeu
12-12-2006, 10:46 AM
As I said originaly, the sleaziest people I have met, have almost always been the customer, who as I said are almost willing to do anything to save a buc.

Like what?

StcChief
12-12-2006, 11:03 AM
Customers for the most part have always assumed they are being screwed, some how.

Past history of car business, past experiences.
Bad cars, lemons problems, you name it.

Now with Internet capabilities to 'do your homework' before appearing at the dealer. This could/should help with this problem.

foxman
12-12-2006, 04:11 PM
Like what?

I have literally had a customer pee in a vehicle before....

Easy 6
12-12-2006, 04:29 PM
Customers for the most part have always assumed they are being screwed, some how.

Past history of car business, past experiences.
Bad cars, lemons problems, you name it.

Now with Internet capabilities to 'do your homework' before appearing at the dealer. This could/should help with this problem.

I sold cars for 1 year & had decent success with it, the problem with people researching the internet is that they come in & think that what they found at Kelly Blue Book or whatever else, is the Gospel. Its not, there are a 1001 factors that can skew what Kelly says.

People just LOVE to rate their trade-in way, way, WAY better on the Kelly site than what it is for one.

I'm with whoever said that most (certainly NOT all) salesmen are basically honest, its when they walk into the finance office that they get shoved over a desk & made to squeal.

trndobrd
12-12-2006, 05:22 PM
We got up and asked for our keys. They stalled, left the room, came back, tried another pitch and I had to speak in a loud, forceful tone "I WANT MY KEYS NOW!".


That is unlawful restraint. Next time call 911.

Skip Towne
12-12-2006, 05:41 PM
When shopping for a replacement van for our '98 Safari, we had some interesting experiences.

We started off heading out for OK City. We stopped off at a dealership in Yukon at a GM dealer that had 2 Astros sitting on their lot. I was kinda surprised that a salesman didn't chase my van across the lot as I drove over to the vans. I looked the 2 vans over for quite a while before anyone ventured out. Finally, about the time I'm thinking they must not want to talk to us, out comes a salesman. I asked him about the Red van with Gold trim (:thumb:) and he tells me they want $12.9 for it and it's a '01 has 34K miles on it. I talked to him for a bit to see what his best price was (I wasn't getting carried away Foxman;), after having a cousin that manages a dealership, I know there is usually a lower price than the first one stated). He said that was the best they could do and after visiting a bit more told us if there was anything else he could do for us to let him know. He handed me his card as I climbed into our van and waved as we drove off.

We headed on into the city. And made quick circles of lots, managing to escape the dealership property before the salesmen running after us could catch up. One lot though we were driving through, the car in front of us stopped. THEY STOPPED!!!! There wasn't room to get around them. Not only did they get hammered by salesmen, we had one on each side of the van, one trying to talk to the wife through her window and one trying to talk to me through mine. Luckily they didn't have what we wanted and when they heard what I thought about Chrysler products they surrendered and walked off.

One dealership actually had an Astro. As we pulled up to it, here comes the guy. He's really helpful. We go for a test drive. Then he wants me to take a spin with him in mine. He notices all kinds of things wrong with it - it's odd that the only problem it had other than high mileage he didn't catch. He takes us inside, keeping my keys of course, and starts talking to us about the deal he could offer us. The van was a 2004 Astro 4wd loaded with about 8k miles on it. They want 18k for it. I tell them that's more than we can afford - we were looking for something between 10k and 13k. He crunches numbers, gets us down to taking our van in trade and 17K. When I told him thanks for his time, he told us to hold on, and slips back out. He brings his sales manager in. That guy starts talking. They talk, show me a "deal" to which I say no to, head back out, talk and come back in with another "deal". After a while, I divulge to them that I had found another van, told them the deal but not where, and the salesman flat out called me a liar and that if such a van really existed he'd buy it so he can make 4-5k on it. That's when I had it. We'd been there for 2+ hours at this point. The manager realized the salesman crossed the line with me and the price dropped considerable. He offered us the van at 15K and would give me an aditional 2k for my van. By this point though, I had made up my mind that if they gave me their van for free I wouldn't take it. We got up and asked for our keys. They stalled, left the room, came back, tried another pitch and I had to speak in a loud, forceful tone "I WANT MY KEYS NOW!". They were really, really mad at me for not taking their deal. The first salesman was glaring angrily at me and his tone had changed completely from when we first met - he told me we had wasted his afternoon and he could have been selling cars to people that wanted them. I told him we tried to leave an hour sooner and he wouldn't let us. We were both glad when we got back into our van and pulled out.

We ended up going back to the first dealership. I went inside, found the salesman I talked to, and told him we were interested in his van. We test-drove it and bought it at $12.9.

When I get ready to buy again, if he's still selling at that dealership I will go back and talk to him again.
What do you consider high mileage for an Astro Van?

Fairplay
12-12-2006, 05:42 PM
Ok, i read some of the comments that not all of car dealers dishonest and sleazeballs and such.

But to me they are like puppets. The make a deal with the customer/customer shoots back a price. Then they go talk to the manager. Manager tells the salesmen what to say.
Repeat story until a deal perhaps is reached.

Aren't there times though that the customer is taken to the cleaners and by seeing their income you think "That poor bastard, maybe i'll help him out he is getting the screwing of his life with not even the courtesy of KY for gods sake?"

PastorMikH
12-13-2006, 08:29 AM
What do you consider high mileage for an Astro Van?


When it reaches enough miles that stuff is starting going - the old one had 120k. When driving for longer periods, the transmission would slam from first to second like I was speed shifting a standard. The front end was getting really loose too - I guess they aren't made for driving through fields and such to shoot prairie dogs. Also had a number of little things going on it. We wanted one with rear heat and air so we upgraded. This one may stay in the family a bit longer.

patteeu
12-13-2006, 09:04 AM
I have literally had a customer pee in a vehicle before....

:eek: Wow. On purpose? What was their angle?

foxman
12-13-2006, 09:27 AM
:eek: Wow. On purpose? What was their angle?

The wench that did this, did it in a Mitsubishi Eclipse GT with Leather seats. The salesman had come inside to talk to me to let me know he thought she was a little drunk. While he and I were discussing what approach to take (negotiating with someone who might be drunk) I asked what she was doing because it looked like she was shimming her undies down. She was wearing a skirt and was a local realtor supposedly. We watched in wonder as she appeared to being adjusting herself and then she got out of our car and into her's and left. When the salesman went back out to the Eclipse there was a urine puddle in the passenger seat, were she was.

Needless to say we called and alerted the police and promptly ordered a new seat.

I got lots of stories, none others include releasing anything from the body, but lots of criminal acts that have taken place. I have had cars taken to NY and hidden, I have had supposed Grandmothers Co-sign when it was really identity theft, I have had cars totaled while test driven when the jerk was horsing around, I had a co worker get kidnapped on a test drive and driven out of state and much much more, so yeah I might be a bit biased, but the customer 9 out of 10 times is the one not being honest.

Bwana
12-13-2006, 09:31 AM
I'm with whoever said that most (certainly NOT all) salesmen are basically honest, its when they walk into the finance office that they get shoved over a desk & made to squeal.

Truer words have never graced Chiefs Planet scott.

OK, it’s time for me to chime in on this thing for real. "Most" F&I guys would whore their own mother out on the street. Before you go into that office, do the math on the extended warranty stuff and the "croke and choke" insurance as a lot of the F&I guys call it on the inside. Most of the time that stuff is a complete rip off. NEVER EVER EVER get caught up in the payment per month scam.

Example:
Dealer: How much were you thinking per month on your payment?

Customer: Oh, around $300-400 per month.

Dealer: well Mr. customer, If I can get you payment within that range, you will take the car TODAY wont you?

Customer: Um, I guess so.

At this point, in most cases, your payment will come back (almost like magic) at around $398 a month.

Dealer: Extending hand "CONGRATULATIONS Mr. customer, you just bought yourself a car!!!”

Guess what, you just likely over paid by $75 dollars a month for five or six years BEFORE interest is tacked on! DO THE MATH IN ADVANCE and don’t' get caught up in the payment per month SACM.

Now keep in mind, this is even before you go into see the finance and insurance (F&I) guys. As stated above, that is where you are really going to get hosed if you don't know what you’re doing, or don’t do your homework. In a lot of cases, in order for the warranty to payoff, you would have to smoke the engine, the transmission and the rear in order to break even once you do the math after paying interest on the extended warranty for five of six years. The odds are higher for you to hit the Powerball. If you are that worried about the thing breaking down and losing all those parts, perhaps you shouldn’t be buying that brand or check in for some psychological assistance? The way cars are built these days, 99.9% of the time the extended warranty is a total sham. If you want to be safe, take that same money and stick it into your savings account every month and if something does happen, not only is it there, but you were making the juice on YOUR money and not getting charged interest on something that you will likely never use. Not only will you get to keep your money, but if in the off chance something does go wrong, it won't cost you nearly as much when you work the figures on doing it both ways. The "Life insurance" they sell is also a rip off if you have any other kind of life insurance, or even if you don't, go get some for a lot less than the "croke and choke" insurance that (once again) you're paying interest on for 5 or 6 years. A little bit of homework can say you $100 or more a month in most cases.

The only other advise I would have is find a good sales person like Foxman and stick with him. There are a lot of good people in the business, but there are also a lot of dirt bags. As several others mentioned, the same goes for customers. Buying a car seems to turn the nicest people into Devil span in a lot of cases.

Redrum_69
12-13-2006, 09:34 AM
Wheres the best place you ever lived?

trndobrd
12-13-2006, 09:50 AM
Truer words have never graced Chiefs Planet scott.

OK, it’s time for me to chime in on this thing for real. "Most" F&I guys would whore their own mother out on the street. Before you go into that office, do the math on the extended warranty stuff and the "croke and choke" insurance as a lot of the F&I guys call it on the inside. Most of the time that stuff is a complete rip off. NEVER EVER EVER get caught up in the payment per month scam.

Example:
Dealer: How much were you thinking per month on your payment?

Customer: Oh, around $300-400 per month.

Dealer: well Mr. customer, If I can get you payment within that range, you will take the car TODAY wont you?

Customer: Um, I guess so.

At this point, in most cases, your payment will come back (almost like magic) at around $398 a month.

Dealer: Extending hand "CONGRATULATIONS Mr. customer, you just bought yourself a car!!!”

Guess what, you just likely over paid by $75 dollars a month for five or six years BEFORE interest is tacked on! DO THE MATH IN ADVANCE and don’t' get caught up in the payment per month SACM.

Now keep in mind, this is even before you go into see the finance and insurance (F&I) guys. As stated above, that is where you are really going to get hosed if you don't know what you’re doing, or don’t do your homework. In a lot of cases, in order for the warranty to payoff, you would have to smoke the engine, the transmission and the rear in order to break even once you do the math after paying interest on the extended warranty for five of six years. The odds are higher for you to hit the Powerball. If you are that worried about the thing breaking down and losing all those parts, perhaps you shouldn’t be buying that brand or check in for some psychological assistance? The way cars are built these days, 99.9% of the time the extended warranty is a total sham. If you want to be safe, take that same money and stick it into your savings account every month and if something does happen, not only is it there, but you were making the juice on YOUR money and not getting charged interest on something that you will likely never use. Not only will you get to keep your money, but if in the off chance something does go wrong, it won't cost you nearly as much when you work the figures on doing it both ways. The "Life insurance" they sell is also a rip off if you have any other kind of life insurance, or even if you don't, go get some for a lot less than the "croke and choke" insurance that (once again) you're paying interest on for 5 or 6 years. A little bit of homework can say you $100 or more a month in most cases.

The only other advise I would have is find a good sales person like Foxman and stick with him. There are a lot of good people in the business, but there are also a lot of dirt bags. As several others mentioned, the same goes for customers. Buying a car seems to turn the nicest people into Devil span in a lot of cases.



That would explain why the last salesman I dealt with looked physically ill when I announced, after 3 hours of haggling over the price, that "these finance charges look too high, I think I'll just write you a check instead of financing."

Unfortunately, that deal never happened because they tacked on a $150 "title acquisition fee". In KS the state charges $10 for a 30 day tag and nothing for title transfer. The best excuse they could come up with was "well, that's just a fee we charge all our customers. $150 seems like a pretty small amount to break a $9000 deal."

"Yep." I said as I walked out.

Bwana
12-13-2006, 10:25 AM
That would explain why the last salesman I dealt with looked physically ill when I announced, after 3 hours of haggling over the price, that "these finance charges look too high, I think I'll just write you a check instead of financing."

Unfortunately, that deal never happened because they tacked on a $150 "title acquisition fee". In KS the state charges $10 for a 30 day tag and nothing for title transfer. The best excuse they could come up with was "well, that's just a fee we charge all our customers. $150 seems like a pretty small amount to break a $9000 deal."

"Yep." I said as I walked out.


Awww yes, I didn't even go into the interest rate itself. Unless it is some kind of a special deal from the manufacturer (Make sure it really is and someone isn't feeding you full of crap) a lot of the time the dealerships will tack on and extra point or two of interest. I have seen deals where they have tacked on more than that and totally raped the customer. How it works is they have it worked out with the financial institutions in advance. If the dealership gets their money at say 10%, they can charge the customer whatever they want, 11%, 5%, 18% and get a kickback from the bank on the extra points. Thay can make HUGE money doing that. That's why in ALL cases, it's wise to check with your own bank before accepting the dealers financing terms.

The title fee, or the documentation fee as some dealers call it. trndord is right, it's just one more way for the dealer to sweeten the deal and in return, the customer takes the beating.

On average, it takes 10 minutes to do the title work. $150 for ten minutes? Wow, that's laughable at best, and total rip. A Doc fee is just another "pack" or in other words, another dealer ad on to increase profit of the deal.

foxman
12-13-2006, 02:25 PM
In a lot of cases, in order for the warranty to payoff, you would have to smoke the engine, the transmission and the rear in order to break even once you do the math after paying interest on the extended warranty for five of six years. The odds are higher for you to hit the Powerball. If you are that worried about the thing breaking down and losing all those parts, perhaps you shouldn’t be buying that brand or check in for some psychological assistance? The way cars are built these days, 99.9% of the time the extended warranty is a total sham. If you want to be safe, take that same money and stick it into your savings account every month and if something does happen, not only is it there, but you were making the juice on YOUR money and not getting charged interest on something that you will likely never use. Not only will you get to keep your money, but if in the off chance something does go wrong, it won't cost you nearly as much when you work the figures on doing it both ways.

A little bit of homework can say you $100 or more a month in most cases.


Some of this depends on variables. I have an extended warranty on my Trailblazer and it has paid for itself with one repair to the tranny. With that said, I knew that I had a good chance ant transmission problems after the factory warranty expired because I had them when I was under it, so we bought the GMPP Major Guard before the factory warranty expired. By purchasing it later I accomplished a couple of things. I identified a potential need and I didnt pay any interest on the warranty.

Bwana gives fantastic advice with regards to saving the money you would be paying for a warranty so that you have it handy if you need it. While it is excellent advice there are a couple drawbacks. A LOT of people simply are not disciplined enough to save for a costly repair and thus they end up trading/selling the broken vehicle or they put it on a credit card or finance it somehow. In those cases they will spend more than if they had purchased a warranty and financed it into the car loan. Also, if you save the money you are still at the mercy of current labor rates and frankly they are high as a kite and will not likely be coming down any time soon. So, it depends on the person as to what makes the most sense when purchasing a warranty. The bottom line point that Bwana, myself and others have mentioned is to do some homework before you sign the contract.

The Doc Fee is in fact extra money that in most cases goes strait to the owner and is often times not negotiable except if they are willing to discount the price by the stated fee amount. In our case if a person objects to the fee we can either say thanks for shopping or take it out of the price, I can not delete the fee from pre printed forms however.

As far as rate markup....it happens, but there are laws that govern the amount the rate can be marked up. Most lenders wont allow a rate markup of more than 2%. Some still go 3%, but most are doing away with 3. The direction that dealer finance is heading is actually a detriment to those with good credit. Under the current situation if you have lets say a 760 beacon you can get a better rate with a certain bank then if you have a 700 beacon. The dealer marks it up a point or two and you sign up. The way dealer finance is heading they are going to eventually go to a higher flat rate, not allowing the dealer to mark it up and paying them a flat fee. The problem with that is, that the guy with a 760 for example will be paying the same rate as a guy with a 680 score. So the only people who will end up winning is the banks. Currently dealers can offer better rates then if you walked into the bank because of vollume. The dealer can in a lot of cases beat your rate and still make money, so it's a win-win....but that will likely change in the next few years.

Also, life insurance laws vary from state to state, so I can not speak to Missouri or Kansas since I havent lived there since 84, but in North Carolina, it is cheaper for an 50+ year old person to add Credit Life or Credit Accident-Health insurance to a car loan then to get it from an agent. The reason is that the premium is tied only to the amount and length of the loan, instead of the age, weight and vocation of the applicant. An 18 year old and a 50 year old financing $20,000.00 for 5 years are both charged the same amount of premiums. With that said, it isnt for everyone and I never pushed it hard while I was in finance for the past 5 years. I focused more time and effort on...
A: Rate
B: Warranty
c: GAP coverage

PastorMikH
12-13-2006, 02:43 PM
I bought the extended warranty on both vans. The first one had rear end problems and just barely paid for itself. The second one has had several things that I turned in, AC/Heater fan & Switch, do to sluggishness right after we got it, they replaced the throttle body and also the turn signal switch (pre-recall). I figure I'm about at a break-even spot on this van as well.

I didn't get the extended waranty for my final Dodge - a Dakota and from the time I passed 37k miles, I had to start paying for stuff. I had a fuel pump go out, idler bearing, themostat, front axle seals, the AC Compressor was making lots of noise, and a number of other smaller things - all in about a 12k mile time frame.

Frosty
12-13-2006, 02:43 PM
One thing that I don't think a lot of people realize is that, unless you live in Florida, you can buy the manufacturer's extended warranty from any dealer and you don't normally have to buy it immediately to get the new car rates. For my Chevy pickup, I had until 12 months or 12,000 miles and on our CR-V we had 6 months, 6000 miles to get the warranty at new car rates.

When we bought our CR-V last January, the dealer was pushing hard for us to buy a 7year/100,000 mile warranty that we had to buy right now or we wouldn't get it at the special price of $2100 (or $1800 if we had a Costco card). We managed to resist :rolleyes: and I later found I could get the same HondaCare warranty for $1095 from a number of different dealers online.

Cochise
12-13-2006, 03:17 PM
NEVER EVER EVER get caught up in the payment per month scam.


I have only bought one brand new vehicle before, but it happened everyplace I went on that shopping cycle. It seems like the worst places of all for pressure and shadiness were the domestic car mega-dealerships. Most of the places I went, I hadn't even been talking to the salesperson on the lot for 1 minute before they tried to condition me as a payment buyer. I wasn't familiar with the scam at that time, but I could tell that when I said I didn't like the interest rate they would just come back with a lower rate but the money taken back on another part of the deal.

I was about to start looking for a car soon, not looking forward to it. I got some financing online this time just to avoid playing the payment/term/interest rate shell game. I think it will be helpful to have another offer sheet with me to beat up on their offer with.

Cochise
12-13-2006, 03:19 PM
One thing that I don't think a lot of people realize is that, unless you live in Florida, you can buy the manufacturer's extended warranty from any dealer and you don't normally have to buy it immediately to get the new car rates.

There are online warranty companies who sell them at much less than they cost at a dealer. I have one on my current car that was not too expensive, and you don't even have to take it to a dealer to get work done, you can take it anywhere.

Frosty
12-13-2006, 03:24 PM
There are online warranty companies who sell them at much less than they cost at a dealer. I have one on my current car that was not too expensive, and you don't even have to take it to a dealer to get work done, you can take it anywhere.

That's true, though I would personally never get an extended warranty that wasn't backed by the manufacturer. Most of the other types have had horrible problems with not paying or going out of business, leaving the customers with a useless warranty. You see tons of horror stories over at the edmunds.com forums (now carspace.com).

Actually, I don't buy extended warrantys at all. Just sayin'. :)

Bwana
12-13-2006, 03:26 PM
I have only bought one brand new vehicle before, but it happened everyplace I went on that shopping cycle. It seems like the worst places of all for pressure and shadiness were the domestic car mega-dealerships. Most of the places I went, I hadn't even been talking to the salesperson on the lot for 1 minute before they tried to condition me as a payment buyer. I wasn't familiar with the scam at that time, but I could tell that when I said I didn't like the interest rate they would just come back with a lower rate but the money taken back on another part of the deal.

I was about to start looking for a car soon, not looking forward to it. I got some financing online this time just to avoid playing the payment/term/interest rate shell game. I think it will be helpful to have another offer sheet with me to beat up on their offer with.

In today’s world, you can get it down to the dime if you know what you are doing. My brother just bought a new Super Duty on-line from a dealer. You don't even have to set foot into a dealership to get your best deal. Figure out what you want, make them shoot you their best deal via email. Make sure they know that you will be checking several dealers as well. It keeps them honest on price. Sooner or latter you will get a hungry dealer that is wanting to blow out a piece of inventory and you will get the good guy deal.

GROB
12-13-2006, 03:34 PM
Long hours, working weekends, bending people over and celebrating afterwards, outright lying to someones face. cons

Good money, meeting lots of people and getting laid a lot out of it. pros

CASHMAN
12-13-2006, 09:57 PM
Long hours, working weekends, bending people over and celebrating afterwards, outright lying to someones face. cons

Good money, meeting lots of people and getting laid a lot out of it. pros


OK ROFL .




CASHMAN.

Brock
12-13-2006, 10:02 PM
Seeing as how only incredibly dumb people actually talk to car salesmen nowadays, you should be able to make money at it.

burt
12-14-2006, 01:39 PM
Interesting read. I'm about half-way through right now. Funny how it describes my cousin to a tee - white shirt, silk tie, gold jewelry, and as a manager, he does sit in an elevated box.:):

I must be the worst dressed Sales Manager in the business!




This goes to show that you just can't trust car salesmen.

NO ONE should trust a car salesman. Trust means you believe him or you believe that you have a good deal. You shouldn't "believe". Do research and KNOW!!!

Belief is more of YOUR line of work! ;)

burt
12-14-2006, 01:42 PM
Pro? You get to meet new and interesting people every day.

Con? You are pretty much a dipshit loser.
Or, you could be a dipshit loser IT guy and soon to be looking for a job....like Saul. I have been gainfully employed in car sales for 18 years without fear of losing income, Saul can not say the same.

Cochise
12-14-2006, 02:02 PM
Or, you could be a dipshit loser IT guy and soon to be looking for a job....like Saul. I have been gainfully employed in car sales for 18 years without fear of losing income, Saul can not say the same.

So what dealer do you work at again?

burt
12-14-2006, 02:47 PM
Long hours, working weekends, bending people over and celebrating afterwards, outright lying to someones face. cons

Your and idiot. Truth and logic are the good car salesmans best friend.

burt
12-14-2006, 02:48 PM
Seeing as how only incredibly dumb people actually talk to car salesmen nowadays, you should be able to make money at it.

And how do you smart individuals handle a car buying transaction?

burt
12-14-2006, 02:51 PM
In today’s world, you can get it down to the dime if you know what you are doing. My brother just bought a new Super Duty on-line from a dealer. You don't even have to set foot into a dealership to get your best deal. Figure out what you want, make them shoot you their best deal via email. Make sure they know that you will be checking several dealers as well. It keeps them honest on price. Sooner or latter you will get a hungry dealer that is wanting to blow out a piece of inventory and you will get the good guy deal.

And then you slide your atm card thru your keyboard and viola, your nee vehicle mysteriously appears in your driveway? :rolleyes:

Eventually, you have to go to the dealer to handle the transaction.

Crashride
12-14-2006, 03:12 PM
And then you slide your atm card thru your keyboard and viola, your nee vehicle mysteriously appears in your driveway? :rolleyes:

Eventually, you have to go to the dealer to handle the transaction.

Yea you go to the dealer alright...to watch them hand you the keys while their secretly pissed off.

Brock
12-14-2006, 03:21 PM
And how do you smart individuals handle a car buying transaction?

They snicker at the car salesmen as they walk past them to the fleet manager's office to complete the internet transaction.

Only dopes talk to car salesmen.

burt
12-14-2006, 03:36 PM
They snicker at the car salesmen as they walk past them to the fleet manager's office to complete the internet transaction.

Only dopes talk to car salesmen.

Dang....you guys are just too bright for us low life car salesmen! Oh, by the way....every dealership that I am familiar with, has a dedicated internet department. I did it for a while, but the national closing ratio is 5 to 8% vs 25% closing for lot traffic...so I went back to the floor. My average profit was higher in the internet. There are 2 types of internet shoppers. Price predators and "Looking for special vehicles". The first category, well you just move a common vehicle. The second category....they pay handsomely. Combine them...I had a high profit level.

To get promoted(?) to the internet department, you have to be a fairly polished veteran salesman.

Ooops, guess the cat's out of the bag....you HAVE been dealing with a salesman. Oh, and they get their pricing from me! ROFL ROFL

Brock
12-14-2006, 03:41 PM
Ooops, guess the cat's out of the bag....you HAVE been dealing with a salesman. Oh, and they get their pricing from me!

If you want to call an order-taker a salesman I guess. Nobody has to put up with car salesman bullshit anymore. They really serve no purpose at all. And BTW, when I buy a car, the dealer gets their pricing from me.

Fish
12-14-2006, 03:46 PM
Ooops, guess the cat's out of the bag....you HAVE been dealing with a salesman. Oh, and they get their pricing from me! ROFL ROFL

I'm important guys! I really am!!! Please? Somebody?

burt
12-14-2006, 03:53 PM
If you want to call an order-taker a salesman I guess. Nobody has to put up with car salesman bullshit anymore.

You tell youself what ever it takes to get you thru the night, Brock, but the "order taker" you emailed was a polished, veteran salesman. And he was good enough to get you to believe that you were in control, and that he wasn't a salesman.

They really serve no purpose at all. And BTW, when I buy a car, the dealer gets their pricing from me.

Gee, and for the last what 80 years...customers BELIEVED the same thing when they made a "counter offer". Yep, you got us by the short hairs. ROFL

Sure....your dealer gets their pricing from you....... ROFL

R&GHomer
12-14-2006, 03:53 PM
I got a new / used car this weekend. I actually enjoyed it this time. I brought a friend of mine to do the haggling. Very cute bleach blond with 38 Double D's, wasn't wearing a braw.. well you get the picture. She used to be married to a car salesman so she knew all the tricks. That poor salesman was off balance from the moment we got out of the car. She would flirt, flirt, then drill him about the mark up etc.... She saved me over 3k.

Fairplay
12-14-2006, 03:55 PM
I got a new / used car this weekend. I actually enjoyed it this time. I brought a friend of mine to do the haggling. Very cute bleach blond with 38 Double D's, wasn't wearing a braw.. well you get the picture. She used to be married to a car salesman so she knew all the tricks. That poor salesman was off balance from the moment we got out of the car. She would flirt, flirt, then drill him about the mark up etc.... She saved me over 3k.



Any other perks you get from that blonde?

burt
12-14-2006, 03:56 PM
I'm important guys! I really am!!! Please? Somebody?

What ever dude, like I need validation from you, I have just been explaining a misconception....my dealership sold 250 cars last month. Today is my day off, but I am here just to help out. You guys keep on thinking you don't need salesmen.

burt
12-14-2006, 03:57 PM
I got a new / used car this weekend. I actually enjoyed it this time. I brought a friend of mine to do the haggling. Very cute bleach blond with 38 Double D's, wasn't wearing a braw.. well you get the picture. She used to be married to a car salesman so she knew all the tricks. That poor salesman was off balance from the moment we got out of the car. She would flirt, flirt, then drill him about the mark up etc.... She saved me over 3k.

DAMN YOU!!! That is not fair! ;) Good move.

Brock
12-14-2006, 04:00 PM
You tell youself what ever it takes to get you thru the night, Brock, but the "order taker" you emailed was a polished, veteran salesman. And he was good enough to get you to believe that you were in control, and that he wasn't a salesman.

Uh huh...right. Does that mean he had an extra layer of brylcreem in his hair and an XL braided gold chain on? I got the deal I wanted, I don't really care whether you think the dealer came out ahead or not. The really nice thing about it is that I got a couple of these dealership cocksmokers bidding against each other, it was fun. It's also no wonder Ford and GM are sliding into oblivion with Dale Mercers of the world working for them.

Nice life there, tirekicker.

burt
12-14-2006, 04:01 PM
I'm important guys! I really am!!! Please? Somebody?

Hey fish, just curious, what do you do?

Cochise
12-14-2006, 04:10 PM
Question: Can you swing these deals with the internet deparment/fleet manager apart from dealing with any salespeople on used cars too? Anyone had any luck doing that?

Skip Towne
12-14-2006, 04:11 PM
Long hours, working weekends, bending people over and celebrating afterwards, outright lying to someones face. cons

Good money, meeting lots of people and getting laid a lot out of it. pros
If He didn't want them sheared, He wouldn't have made them sheep.

Cochise
12-14-2006, 04:11 PM
You guys keep on thinking you don't need salesmen.

What does a salesman do for me?

I'm not saying you as a person are worthless to the human race or anything. I'm just saying, what is my motivation to talk to one? Their job is to get the most money out of me that they can. As a consumer, what is my motivation to want to work with one?

Fish
12-14-2006, 04:19 PM
Hey fish, just curious, what do you do?

I deal pot.... some meth on occasion....

Why?

burt
12-14-2006, 04:30 PM
Uh huh...right. Does that mean he had an extra layer of brylcreem in his hair and an XL braided gold chain on? I got the deal I wanted, I don't really care whether you think the dealer came out ahead or not. The really nice thing about it is that I got a couple of these dealership cocksmokers bidding against each other, it was fun. It's also no wonder Ford and GM are sliding into oblivion with Dale Mercers of the world working for them.

Nice life there, tirekicker.

Sorry if I offended you with the truth. The way I see it, good customers are my friends, weather they purchase on the internet or not. I also believe the dealers that you purchased from made a profit that they were fine with, otherwise they would have told you no. I hope they made a great profit from you, since you have such a negative image of them.

Now, it appears that you have an anger problem...using stereotypes, slurs and intentionally insulting me. I feel kinda sorry for you.

Please note that I haven't said anything negative to you, about you or my customers. I assume that my customers see value in us, otherwise we wouldn't sell over 1000 vehicles a year.

I will continue to serve my customers with honesty, and concern for their needs. I will assist them in determining what vehicle meets their needs then servicing them after the sale. I will continue to value them and hope they will do the same for me.

and please, you just continue in your quest to devalue others with your negative stereotypes....I am sure that makes people want to help you get great deals when you let them know that you believe they are "cocksmokers".

Lastly, regardless of you opinion of GM, they are still the #1 automobile manufacturer on the planet.

Baby Lee
12-14-2006, 04:32 PM
On average, it takes 10 minutes to do the title work. $150 for ten minutes? Wow, that's laughable at best, and total rip. A Doc fee is just another "pack" or in other words, another dealer ad on to increase profit of the deal.
Funny story

http://www.madisonrecord.com/news/newsview.asp?c=148217

burt
12-14-2006, 04:47 PM
What does a salesman do for me?

I'm not saying you as a person are worthless to the human race or anything. I'm just saying, what is my motivation to talk to one? Their job is to get the most money out of me that they can. As a consumer, what is my motivation to want to work with one?

It is almost impossible to purchase anything without a salesman. A good Car Salesman can inform you about vehicles as well as answer questions that you don't even know enough to ask. He/she can make the process a good process, and a bad one can make the process unbearable. A good salesman can be there at the dealership to advise you in the years that you own the vehicle. I have saved many people money because they had a paint problem, hit the garage pulling out, had servicing questions.

Internet Car salesmen, can do the same. Some people don't want to spend a lot of time shopping, or negotiating, some actually just want to steal a vehicle, some are looking for something that is very hard to find. The internet is a useful tool for this, but the people on the other end of your keyboard are just salesmen too.

As far as profit....whether or not you are on the internet or dealing with a salesman on the lot....the dealer will make a profit. Profit is NOT a dirty word. I firmly suggest that car buyers research the vehicle they want to purchase....and decide what is an acceptable profit. If the dealer agrees, purchase it. If not....go else where. But a profit will be made.

I also suggest to my customers that they shop interest rates before sitting with those terrible finance guys. If my finance department gives them a better or comparable deal go thru them, if not go to a lending institution of their choice.

Lastly, there are good mechanics, there are bad. There are good doctors, there are bad. There are bad football players and there are good. It's the same with car salesmen. Please don't judge my profession by your last saleman, and I won't judge you by my worst customer.

Fish
12-14-2006, 04:55 PM
I assume that my customers see value in us, otherwise we wouldn't sell over 1000 vehicles a year.

Not necessarily true.... people will buy cars whether you are nice or not. A dickhead salesman can sell just as many cars as a nice guy salesman if he offers a good enough deal. People are there for one reason only: To buy a vehicle. The salesmen are seen as just a frustrating and annoying obstacle in that process. Nobody gives two shits who the salesman was, it's all about how willing Salesman X is to give you that vehicle at a fair price. And if Salesman X won't budge on the price, move on to Salesman Y. Nobody goes back to Salesman X because he was a nice guy. If Salesman Y offers a better price, Salesman X is forgotten rather quickly.

A car salesmen's value is directly proportional to the price he gives the customer.

Easy 6
12-14-2006, 05:00 PM
Not necessarily true.... people will buy cars whether you are nice or not. A dickhead salesman can sell just as many cars as a nice guy salesman if he offers a good enough deal. People are there for one reason only: To buy a vehicle. The salesmen are seen as just a frustrating and annoying obstacle in that process. Nobody gives two shits who the salesman was, it's all about how willing Salesman X is to give you that vehicle at a fair price. And if Salesman X won't budge on the price, move on to Salesman Y. Nobody goes back to Salesman X because he was a nice guy. If Salesman Y offers a better price, Salesman X is forgotten rather quickly.

A car salesmen's value is directly proportional to the price he gives the customer.

Most salesmen have no say whatsoever in the price of a vehicle.

If they are honest that is.

Cochise
12-14-2006, 05:10 PM
As far as profit....whether or not you are on the internet or dealing with a salesman on the lot....the dealer will make a profit. Profit is NOT a dirty word.

I agree that a dealer is entitled to a fair profit and I don't expect them to sell cars at a loss.

The consumer's perspective is that the amount I pay above the minimum profit a dealer would accept on that car is money that I left on the table. If I pay $2000 more than the dealer would have accepted I wasted that money. I may as well have flushed it down the toilet. My job is to minimize that waste. The salesman's job is to try and maximize that. Therefore, we are at odds.

If you are friends with your customers and make them feel good that's wonderful. A lot of people will pay a lot extra for that.

burt
12-14-2006, 05:12 PM
Not necessarily true.... people will buy cars whether you are nice or not. A dickhead salesman can sell just as many cars as a nice guy salesman if he offers a good enough deal. People are there for one reason only: To buy a vehicle. The salesmen are seen as just a frustrating and annoying obstacle in that process. Nobody gives two shits who the salesman was, it's all about how willing Salesman X is to give you that vehicle at a fair price. And if Salesman X won't budge on the price, move on to Salesman Y. Nobody goes back to Salesman X because he was a nice guy. If Salesman Y offers a better price, Salesman X is forgotten rather quickly.

A car salesmen's value is directly proportional to the price he gives the customer.

You are speaking from your personal experience. I have numerous customers that would pay more money to deal here than at another dealership. Happens all the time. Many deal with my service department and have a long lasting relationship with them. They really want to deal at the same dealership. I carry $14 million worth of inventory, so I have just about any Chevy that a person may want, many dealers can't say that.

I will also state that a dickhead saleman would drive a customer off BEFORE the negotiating stage. So the customer wouldn't know who has the better deal.

I have worked at 5 dealerships in my time of selling vehicles. I have had many customers follow me to other dealerships, because I was good at selling vehicles, and, yes, I gave good deals.

Here's the thing, everyone hates car salesmen BECAUSE the have dealt with a bad car salesman. Qhen someone finally deals with a good one...they will come back, I have seen it over and over.

burt
12-14-2006, 05:17 PM
Most salesmen have no say whatsoever in the price of a vehicle.

If they are honest that is.

Correct. The Salesmanager does.

trndobrd
12-14-2006, 05:21 PM
Correct. The Salesmanager does.


Why should I pay a commission for someone to walk back and forth between the table where I am sitting and the Sales Manager's office? Why not deal directly with the sales manager?

burt
12-14-2006, 05:24 PM
I agree that a dealer is entitled to a fair profit and I don't expect them to sell cars at a loss.

The consumer's perspective is that the amount I pay above the minimum profit a dealer would accept on that car is money that I left on the table. My job is to minimize that. The salesman's job is to try and maximize that. Therefore, we are at odds.

If you are friends with your customers and make them feel good that's wonderful. A lot of people will pay a lot extra for that.

A good salesman will sit down with you...and discuss profit. It doesn't have to be negative, or mean spirited. A good deal makes sense to the customer and the dealer.

I have old timers that come in and say, "Just give me your best deal."

And I proceed to tell them that they are asking me to lie to them. If I say $100 over cost is my best deal and that is, say $10,100.00, if you offer me $10,097.00 I may take it, and now I am a liar. A good deal it the deal we agree on.

burt
12-14-2006, 05:28 PM
Why should I pay a commission for someone to walk back and forth between the table where I am sitting and the Sales Manager's office? Why not deal directly with the sales manager?

The salesman does plenty of work to deserve a commision. The salesmanager can't find the right vehicle, Present the vehicle, demo the vehicle, write up the vehicle, fill it with gas, take it to clean up AND negotiate with every customer. The salesmen do that...I mostly work the numbers. I will come negotiate, if that is what it takes....but there is much more than that. That is why a salesman deserves the commish.

Plus the manager has many other responsibilities other than JUST working the numbers and negotiating. Woe is me.... ;)

trndobrd
12-14-2006, 05:35 PM
The salesman does plenty of work to deserve a commision. The salesmanager can't find the right vehicle, Present the vehicle, demo the vehicle, write up the vehicle, fill it with gas, take it to clean up AND negotiate with every customer. The salesmen do that...I mostly work the numbers. I will come negotiate, if that is what it takes....but there is much more than that. That is why a salesman deserves the commish.

Plus the manager has many other responsibilities other than JUST working the numbers and negotiating. Woe is me.... ;)



That's OK, I purchased my last two vehicles from private individuals.

burt
12-14-2006, 05:44 PM
That's OK, I purchased my last two vehicles from private individuals.

That's great. You paid less that you would have at a dealership. But...went thru the same basic process. He wanted X amount and you offered Y amount and the final deal was agreed upon by both parties.

The upside, you got 2 cars at a good value. The downside, if you buy a used vehicle from my dealersip, it has been thru my service department..and has a limited warranty, so IF the car has problems that you or us didn't know about, you have recourse.

I have done both, and I can't actually say which process is better.

trndobrd
12-14-2006, 06:27 PM
That's great. You paid less that you would have at a dealership. But...went thru the same basic process. He wanted X amount and you offered Y amount and the final deal was agreed upon by both parties.

The upside, you got 2 cars at a good value. The downside, if you buy a used vehicle from my dealersip, it has been thru my service department..and has a limited warranty, so IF the car has problems that you or us didn't know about, you have recourse.

I have done both, and I can't actually say which process is better.



I have looked at dozens of used car warranties and have yet to find one that actually backs the vehicle beyone a certain percentage of the repair cost, always at a service shop selected by the dealer. Naturally, if the dealer uses their own shop, costs are inflated to ensure the dealer has no out of pocket expense, or the dealer selects a buddy who does the same thing.

It's not that dealers won't honor the terms of their warranties, it's that the terms of the warranties are such that they really are of no benfit to the purchaser.

Unless I was buying a "certified preowned" Lexus or Jag or something similar with a 100% 20k mile warranty, I really wouldn't consider the warranty as part of the purchasing decision.

Fairplay
12-14-2006, 07:11 PM
Most salesmen have no say whatsoever in the price of a vehicle.

If they are honest that is.


Thats the bottom line. I suppose many of us have stories why they dislike car salemen as a whole.
Realistically i see it as this is America, and if that is how one chooses to make a living i have no problem with it. Car salesmen need to make a living also. I know they are puppets of sorts with management telling them what to do and say. I guess as long as they believe they are doing it honestly then thats all you can ask of them. Unfortunately from the comsumer side it is somewhat difficult to tell how really honest the salesmen they are dealing with are.
I also see it as the consumers responsibility to do their homework as best they can before they go to a dealership. If you don't like the salemen you are dealing don't hesitate to ask the manager you seem to be having problems with him and assign you another. I've had to do that before. Go to more then one car dealership for pricing. Use the internet or what have you.

Fish
12-14-2006, 07:43 PM
Most salesmen have no say whatsoever in the price of a vehicle.

They don't have a say in the lowest model price, but they have a say in how much that vehicle is priced at on the lot, which is over final cost.

And that amount is what the salesman has to work with during the sale. He's working for that commission... and he knows what price limit that he has to say no to.

You are speaking from your personal experience. I have numerous customers that would pay more money to deal here than at another dealership.

Well then good for you... you're doing a good job then. But in most cases, this does not hold true. Ask the average person if they'd rather pay $10,000 to the nice guy or $9,250 to the jackass. No offense, but the jackass is gonna win more often.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that your job isn't important. And I'm not saying that a considerate salesman isn't appreciated. I'm just saying that nice guy or not, business is business.

Bob Dole
12-14-2006, 07:53 PM
Well then good for you... you're doing a good job then. But in most cases, this does not hold true. Ask the average person if they'd rather pay $10,000 to the nice guy or $9,250 to the jackass. No offense, but the jackass is gonna win more often.


It doesn't take too many times getting burned by a jackass before you change that attitude.

Fish
12-14-2006, 08:21 PM
Maybe we should start a poll... might be an interesting discussion...

How many people have bought consecutive vehicles from the same car salesman?

How many people remember the name of the car salesman that sold them their last vehicle?

How many are first time buyers?

Would you buy from the same salesman?

Why does beer go so well with pizza?

Easy 6
12-14-2006, 08:30 PM
Why does beer go so well with pizza?

How does the Posi-Trac on a Plymouth work???

Nobody knows...it just duz!!!

:)

RJ
12-14-2006, 09:13 PM
Very interesting to read the last few pages of this thread. A few of you are of the opinion that the salesman has no value in the transaction but everone who is making that argument is motivated strictly by price as far as I can tell. That is fine but not every customer has the same motivations. Someone posted earlier something to the effect that anyone dealing with a salesman is an idiot. That's a very egotistical attitude to assume everyone should make their buying decisions the same way you do.

I'm not a car salesman but I'm fairly sure that both the auto manufacturers and auto customers would suffer greatly without dealerships and salespeople. There are many reasons for where customers decide to buy a car other than price.

RJ
12-14-2006, 09:54 PM
Maybe we should start a poll... might be an interesting discussion...

How many people have bought consecutive vehicles from the same car salesman?

How many people remember the name of the car salesman that sold them their last vehicle?

How many are first time buyers?

Would you buy from the same salesman?

Why does beer go so well with pizza?




It would also be interesting to see the results of the same poll with a different audience. Maybe single/divorced women or people over 50 or families with yearly incomes over 150K, to name a few.

Beer goes so well with pizza because beer goes well with almost everything.........german chocolate cake is an exception.

Al Bundy
12-14-2006, 09:54 PM
I have bought my last 3 Cars from the same salesman at the same Toyota dealership, each time the experience has been better. I am going to buy a Tundra after the start of the year of the truck is still there.

burt
12-14-2006, 11:15 PM
I also see it as the consumers responsibility to do their homework as best they can before they go to a dealership. If you don't like the salemen you are dealing don't hesitate to ask the manager you seem to be having problems with him and assign you another. I've had to do that before. Go to more then one car dealership for pricing. Use the internet or what have you.

Great points.

burt
12-14-2006, 11:19 PM
I have bought my last 3 Cars from the same salesman at the same Toyota dealership, each time the experience has been better. I am going to buy a Tundra after the start of the year of the truck is still there.

I respect your loyalty as well as your choice. The new Tundra will be awesome. And that is from a Chevy Dealer.

Bwana
12-14-2006, 11:37 PM
And then you slide your atm card thru your keyboard and viola, your nee vehicle mysteriously appears in your driveway? :rolleyes:

Eventually, you have to go to the dealer to handle the transaction.

But the terms can be taken care of well in advance, that was my primary point slim. :spock:

burt
12-15-2006, 12:19 AM
um.....thanks for calling me slim?????