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BigRedChief
12-12-2006, 07:47 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/don_banks/12/10/ravens.chiefs/index.html

KANSAS CITY -- His season swirling down the tubes, his team pushed to the precipice of playoff contention, Herman Edwards set his jaw Sunday afternoon and said it was no time to panic, even with the Chiefs' demoralizing 20-10 loss to visiting Baltimore.

Put me down for respectfully disagreeing. Because if not now, Herm, when? Next week at San Diego, when all is irretrievably lost? Actually, next week doesn't hold a lot of promise at this point, because even Kansas City's biggest stars admitted after the game that to make the postseason now, the Chiefs would need perfection from here on out, plus a lot of help.

"We can't make any mistakes,'' Chiefs running back Larry Johnson said of Kansas City's current plight, which finds them at 7-6 and looking up at seven other teams in the fight for the six AFC playoff berths. "We can't lose any games. And now we have to expect all the good teams to lose games, and that's rarely going to happen coming down to these last three games.''

So true, LJ. The odds are severely stacked against the Chiefs, who just picked the least opportune time of the season to go on a two-game losing streak. At the moment, the Bengals and Jaguars (both 8-5 and winners on Sunday) are your two AFC wild cards, with the Jets, Chiefs and Broncos all out of the money at 7-6.

Let's face it, football fans. With a trip to San Diego up next, K.C. is all but DOA. And that's why I say Edwards and his Chiefs should have treated this one like it was their final stand. Their last, best hope to salvage their season and return Kansas City to the playoffs for the first time since 2003.

But instead, they opted to play it safe and predictable. Even if they seemed to know that sorry was their eventual destination.
Here was the situation: In the first half, Chiefs quarterback Trent Green threw two ugly interceptions and also fumbled the ball away when sacked by Baltimore linebacker Terrell Suggs. Three consecutive K.C. drives were ended by a Green miscue, two of them in Ravens territory and one of them in the red zone. Remarkably, the Chiefs only trailed 6-0 at the break, despite the very shaky Green completing just 5 of 13 passes, for 58 yards, with three sacks, two picks, the fumble, and a 13.1 passer rating.

At halftime, I'm wondering if Edwards will insert backup quarterback Damon Huard into the game, figuring that it's now or never time, and the game is still very much in reach. As bad as things had looked for the Chiefs at that point, the day could have still been saved.


Huard was the guy who already had saved the Chiefs season once this year, going 5-3 in the eight games he started after Green suffered a serious concussion against Cincinnati in the season opener. Kansas City wouldn't even have had a meaningful Week 14 game if Huard had not come up as big as he did in his pinch-hitting role. And his numbers weren't measly: He threw 11 touchdowns and just one interception, with a passer rating of 97.6, and two of his three losses were three-point games.

Not a bad option to have in your pocket with the season on the line and starting to slip away. Unless you're Edwards, that is. Here's what he said when I asked him in the post-game if he thought about inserting Huard in the second half, given Green's three turnovers, poor play, and what was at stake for his team?

"No, no, that's a panic move. We're not going to panic,'' Edwards replied. "That's a panic move. What am I doing that for? I don't want to do that.''

Why in the name of Bill Kenney not? Green's a stand-up guy and a great teammate, and he's hung up some pretty numbers in his Chiefs career, but the last time I checked, we're not talking about benching Dan Marino in Miami or Peyton Manning in Indy. Green's next playoff win as Kansas City's quarterback will be his first.

Can someone please explain to me how the thought of yanking Green in favor of Huard never crossed Edwards' mind? With so much riding on what the Chiefs were able to accomplish in the second half?

As it turned out, Kansas City was never really a factor in the second half either. The Chiefs fell behind 13-0 and 20-3, and scored their only touchdown on a meaningless drive with 1:20 remaining. Even though Edwards left Green in the game, he took the ball out of his hands just the same, with Johnson carrying the offense in the third quarter and Green attempting just five passes. Green finished 15 of 27 for 178 yards, with five sacks, two interceptions, one touchdown and a 57.3 rating.

"It's tough when you put him in the known passing downs,'' Edwards said of Green, who is now 2-3 as a starter this season, with five touchdowns, five interceptions, four fumbles and 13 sacks. "You don't want to get back there throwing all the time. You have to be balanced against these guys because they had 42 sacks coming into this game.''
The Ravens pass rush was indeed relentless, hitting Green plenty of times besides just on the sacks, and often getting pressure despite sending just four pass rushers. Maybe Huard wouldn't have fared any better against Baltimore, but we'll never know.

This was a game the Chiefs simply had to win, and I loved their chances. They entered with an 18-game home regular-season winning streak in December, not having dropped a decision in that situation since the Colts beat them in 1996. But now, with that upset loss in overtime at Cleveland last week, which was made even more damaging by Sunday's results, Kansas City is once again looking like it'll come up short when it matters most.

"I would think so,'' said Green, when asked if the Chiefs had to win out and get some help. "You can't really say this because you don't know how the other games are going to unfold and the tiebreaker rules are. But you would think from a mathematical standpoint, and how many teams were 7-5 coming into today, you'd think we'd need help. We've definitely got to win in San Diego.''

At San Diego, at Oakland, home against Jacksonville is how the Chiefs' remaining schedule stands. That looks like 9-7 at best, and don't forget Kansas City missed the playoffs at 10-6 last year in the stacked AFC.
"Who cares about the playoffs?'' bellowed Chiefs defensive end Jared Allen in the locker room. "It's winning games, and we've got to stop this losing streak.''

It could be too late to really matter in Kansas City. That's why Sunday's second half seemed like the right time to panic. By next week, Herm, there might not be any season left to save.

Redcoats58
12-12-2006, 08:06 AM
Herm didn't put Huard in because he knows he will be gone next season and what kind of message would that send to Trent?

HonestChieffan
12-12-2006, 08:10 AM
Herm didn't put Huard in because he knows he will be gone next season and what kind of message would that send to Trent?


HUH?????


Message to Trent. Son, 3 INTS get your ass benched. What don't you understand?

Message to Huard. Throw 3 INTS, your ass gets benched.

Message to Croyle: See this guy? He threw 3 INTs and got benched. You do it and you get to keep 1 jerzy and your cleats.


Why did Herm do what he did? Herm is a sorry sorry sorry game day coach who cant adjust his necktie.

Redcoats58
12-12-2006, 08:14 AM
HUH?????


Message to Trent. Son, 3 INTS get your ass benched. What don't you understand?

Message to Huard. Throw 3 INTS, your ass gets benched.

Message to Croyle: See this guy? He threw 3 INTs and got benched. You do it and you get to keep 1 jerzy and your cleats.


Why did Herm do what he did? Herm is a sorry sorry sorry game day coach who cant adjust his necktie.
It's is just my opinion. I didn't say I was happy with Green's performance or Herm's terrible gameplan. I guarantee that was Herm's thinking though.

PastorMikH
12-12-2006, 08:23 AM
Vermiel had the same attitude going into the final month of the season. "Eh, no biggy, there's always next week, I wouldn't call this a Must Win game"


The Browns was a MUST win game. Baltimore was a WE HAVE TO WIN game. For the last 7 seasons our HCs have had the attitude that these games weren't a huge deal - and we have lost most of them.

Skip Towne
12-12-2006, 08:30 AM
Hootie will be along any time now.

Redcoats58
12-12-2006, 08:32 AM
Hootie will be along any time now.
That was the exact thought that went through my mind when I read the article. Hootie will be along shortly to spew a 100+ posts about Huard that all state the same thing.

siberian khatru
12-12-2006, 08:34 AM
I agree Herm played it safe.

I disagree that the key to winning or losing that game was pulling Green for Huard.

The more glaring "playing it safe" mistakes, IMO, were running on 29 of 39 first and second downs, and punting from inside the Ravens 40 in the 4th quarter down 13-3.

KC-TBB
12-12-2006, 08:34 AM
This sucks, always talking about other teams having to lose...if we had just played all out with a bit less predictabilty, we wouldnt be looking back at Cleveland...or Miami...or Baltimore...

Redcoats58
12-12-2006, 08:35 AM
I agree Herm played it safe.

I disagree that the key to winning or losing that game was pulling Green for Huard.

The more glaring "playing it safe" mistakes, IMO, were running on 29 of 39 first and second downs, and punting from inside the Ravens 40 in the 4th quarter down 13-3.
No doubt, those are sickening stats.

InChiefsHell
12-12-2006, 09:14 AM
HUH?????


Message to Trent. Son, 3 INTS get your ass benched. What don't you understand?

Message to Huard. Throw 3 INTS, your ass gets benched.

Message to Croyle: See this guy? He threw 3 INTs and got benched. You do it and you get to keep 1 jerzy and your cleats.


Why did Herm do what he did? Herm is a sorry sorry sorry game day coach who cant adjust his necktie.

Ummm...2 INT's and a fumble. Just sayin...

Raiderhader
12-12-2006, 09:15 AM
I agree Herm played it safe.

I disagree that the key to winning or losing that game was pulling Green for Huard.

The more glaring "playing it safe" mistakes, IMO, were running on 29 of 39 first and second downs, and punting from inside the Ravens 40 in the 4th quarter down 13-3.



Bingo.


Pulling Green for Huard... what nonsense. Last I checked, Trent had at least played in a playoff game. I'll take his limited experience in these situations over Huard's even more limited experience any day.

God bless the man for what he did for us early in the year, but he is not the solution.

StcChief
12-12-2006, 09:30 AM
How about facing facts the Ravens D was too much for Herm Edwards /Solari to figure out how to beat?

siberian khatru
12-12-2006, 09:37 AM
How about facing facts the Ravens D was too much for Herm Edwards /Solari to figure out how to beat?

They didn't even try. If they had run screens and draws and passed more on 1st down, and the Ravens blew all that up, too, then I'd give Baltimore 100% credit.

As good as the Ravens are, we didn't force them to work too hard at it. Stop the run on 1st and 2nd down, pin their ears back on 3rd and long. Rinse and repeat.

patteeu
12-12-2006, 09:58 AM
I agree Herm played it safe.

I disagree that the key to winning or losing that game was pulling Green for Huard.

The more glaring "playing it safe" mistakes, IMO, were running on 29 of 39 first and second downs, and punting from inside the Ravens 40 in the 4th quarter down 13-3.

I agree completely. The thought of benching Green for Huard never even occurred to me, but the constant ineffective running on first down and the unwillingness to take that chance early in the 4th quarter jumped out at me.

KC-TBB
12-12-2006, 10:02 AM
Agreed, Kick our ass they did! Poorly we played...

InChiefsHell
12-12-2006, 10:03 AM
As I watched us go into one third and long after another, I was telling my buddy "Well, it's Third and Gonzales"...and THAT never happened. Tony was pretty much taken out of the game plan, weather by Trent or Solari or Herm...the just didn't use him at all. No screen plays either. I just don't get it.

And BTW, I was pissed that the silly little TD at the end of the game went to Dante. I would have liked Gonzo to have tied THannon Tharp's record, at least something positive would have come out of the game.

King_Chief_Fan
12-12-2006, 10:05 AM
Herm didn't put Huard in because he knows he will be gone next season and what kind of message would that send to Trent?

who cares what message it sends to Green. Quit candy assing this guy.
He wasn't getting the job done, so we decided to see if someone could is the message.

Get the job done....consistently, you stay in the game.

Don't get the job done, you get Plummerized.

Same should go for anyone on this team.

BigRedChief
12-12-2006, 11:46 AM
who cares what message it sends to Green. Quit candy assing this guy.
He wasn't getting the job done, so we decided to see if someone could is the message.

Get the job done....consistently, you stay in the game.

Don't get the job done, you get Plummerized.

Same should go for anyone on this team.
Accountability must be Herm's policy. Yeah everyone screws up every once in a while. But you play to win the game not coodle your players egos.

chiefsfan1963
12-12-2006, 11:51 AM
I have been warning this board all year that KC had to get to 11-5 to guarantee a playoff spot. I warned you that it was a distinct possiblity that we would lose to Cleveland followed by the Ravens.

Play not to lose is a loser mentality.

Even with the defensive woes, DV's Chiefs are just hands down better!

With a better GM both Marty and DV would have had at least 2 SB's a piece during their tenure here.

Looking forward to the CP era ending soon.

Demonpenz
12-12-2006, 12:02 PM
Did you see the way lewis tracked johnson from behind at the end of the half? I think thats the reason we didn't run any screens because the ravens not only would have to the qb but would have killed lj too, but alas we won't know if my statement is true because we never even tried it

Calcountry
12-12-2006, 12:23 PM
Herm didn't put Huard in because he knows he will be gone next season and what kind of message would that send to Trent?Maybe Trent should be gone next year?

Tribal Warfare
12-12-2006, 12:29 PM
Damn, you guys have short ass memories Trent still the main man, and one of the best QBs in the league. It's not his fault that O-line plays like shit

buddha
12-12-2006, 12:45 PM
The QB was only part of the problem. DH isn't a miracle worker either. The problem starts with Carl and his lack of ability to address the offensive line, the WR corps, etc.

Fish
12-12-2006, 12:48 PM
I have been warning this board all year that KC had to get to 11-5 to guarantee a playoff spot. I warned you that it was a distinct possiblity that we would lose to Cleveland followed by the Ravens.

Play not to lose is a loser mentality.

Even with the defensive woes, DV's Chiefs are just hands down better!

With a better GM both Marty and DV would have had at least 2 SB's a piece during their tenure here.

Looking forward to the CP era ending soon.

You dumbf*ck.... you have a distinct knack for basing your ideas around hindsight that nobody can change. And that doesn't make you right about anything. You spout off "ifs" left and right that make no sense whatsoever. You can't say what a different GM "would" have done because it's completely hypothetical and based around your own opinions. You warned us that losing was a distinct possibility? Nice call Nostradamus...... I wonder why Mr. Hunt doesn't have you on speed dial?

King_Chief_Fan
12-12-2006, 12:48 PM
Damn, you guys have short ass memories Trent still the main man, and one of the best QBs in the league. It's not his fault that O-line plays like shit

This is a what have you done for me lately world.
Overall this season, TrInt has not been the player he was the last few years. He looks like the guy that he was when he first got here.

I am looking for consistency. Green has not been that this year.
Huard played behind the same line....5-3. 90 some passer rating with 11 TD and 1 Int. I not saying Huard is a better QB. But this year he has played better.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-12-2006, 12:51 PM
This loss is on the coaching and Greg Wesley.

Green's second pick was a tight throw, but Parker got alligator body (wtf knew you could do that) because he was afraid of the hit he was going to take had he went after that ball. If he lays out, he at least gets both hands on that.

29/39 runs on 1st and 2nd down...:shake:

You can't coach worse than that. You just can't.

Count Alex's Losses
12-12-2006, 12:54 PM
TrInt has not been the player he was the last few years. He looks like the guy that he was when he first got here.


I think that's a little harsh. Before the Ravens game he was playing fine.

NewChief
12-12-2006, 12:55 PM
29/39 runs on 1st and 2nd down...:shake:


The real concern I have is that they don't see this as bad coaching. I have a sneaking suspicion that Herm feels that the offensive game plan was solid. That's what really worries me.

FringeNC
12-12-2006, 12:57 PM
Wow. I didn't realize we ran on 29 of 39 first and second downs. That's inexcusable. If our pass blocking is really that bad that we are afraid to pass, then Black certainly isn't the answer at LT.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-12-2006, 12:59 PM
The real concern I have is that they don't see this as bad coaching. I have a sneaking suspicion that Herm feels that the offensive game plan was solid. That's what really worries me.

Check your PM for an analogy

Calcountry
12-12-2006, 01:01 PM
This is a what have you done for me lately world.
Overall this season, TrInt has not been the player he was the last few years. He looks like the guy that he was when he first got here.

I am looking for consistency. Green has not been that this year.
Huard played behind the same line....5-3. 90 some passer rating with 11 TD and 1 Int. I not saying Huard is a better QB. But this year he has played better.I liked Steve DeBergs play action pass fake better than Trent Greens. We need to find a situational QB, who can hand the ball off really good for next year.

FAX
12-12-2006, 01:02 PM
Wow. I didn't realize we ran on 29 of 39 first and second downs. That's inexcusable. If our pass blocking is really that bad that we are afraid to pass, then Black certainly isn't the answer at LT.

Inexcusable is right, Mr. FringeNC.

What is really concerning about that statistic is 1) You have better chances against a good defense if you keep them guessing and we didn't even come close to attempting that, and 2) We don't seem to be able to adapt during the game. We stick with the "game plan" regardless of what field evidence is telling us.

It's beyond stupid. It's crazy old lady talking to herself nuts.

FAX

TN_Chief
12-12-2006, 01:04 PM
I liked Steve DeBergs play action pass fake better than Trent Greens. We need to find a situational QB, who can hand the ball off really good for next year.Actually, if the gameplan is going to be mostly handing off to LJ, then you're right...finding a QB that executes the playfake very well would be a solid idea.

BigRedChief
12-12-2006, 01:06 PM
Wow. I didn't realize we ran on 29 of 39 first and second downs. That's inexcusable. If our pass blocking is really that bad that we are afraid to pass, then Black certainly isn't the answer at LT.
To start the game.......16 out of 18 first downs we ran the ball.

htismaqe
12-12-2006, 01:43 PM
You guys spend way too much time obsessing about predictable playcalling.

Go ask somebody that coaches football for a living, at any level, and they'll tell you that keeping your opponent off-balance is OVERRATED and no substitute for execution.

Everybody thinks Al Saunders was so unpredictable. HE WASN'T, and it's been proven here before. What Al Saunders had was an offensive line that executed with pinpoint precision...

Chief Chief
12-12-2006, 02:17 PM
"It's tough when you put him (Trent Green) in the known passing downs"...
- Herm Edwards, December 2006

Message to Hermie: 1st down is NOT KNOWN to be a passing down. Play-action to LJ and throw the DAMM ball on 1st down. It doesn't have to be a long pass. In fact, please..make it a conservative, short one..5-10 yards oughta do it..consider it an extended hand-off. 2nd and 3 sure beats 2nd and 8.

We threw it a total of 14 times in the 2nd half. Wow!

FringeNC
12-12-2006, 02:26 PM
You guys spend way too much time obsessing about predictable playcalling.

Go ask somebody that coaches football for a living, at any level, and they'll tell you that keeping your opponent off-balance is OVERRATED and no substitute for execution.

Everybody thinks Al Saunders was so unpredictable. HE WASN'T, and it's been proven here before. What Al Saunders had was an offensive line that executed with pinpoint precision...

That's just not true when teams are evenly matched as they are in the NFL.

Edit: if that were true, explain Jake Plummer's splits: he's good except on third down. Why is that?

htismaqe
12-12-2006, 02:29 PM
That's just not true when teams are evenly matched as they are in the NFL.

Edit: if that were true, explain Jake Plummer's splits: he's good except on third down. Why is that?

Like I said, ask any coach.

That's not my opinion, that's the opinion of PROFESSIONALS.

FAX
12-12-2006, 02:34 PM
Mr. htismaqe is right. Execution trumps unpredictability. It's the Lombardi axiom.

But, if your execution is questionable because your tackles would have difficulty blocking a Victoria Secret model on qualudes, the next best thing is to try and keep the enemy defense guessing about what you're going to do at the snap.

Any edge is better than no edge at all. I call it the FAX's Razor axiom.

FAX

htismaqe
12-12-2006, 02:38 PM
Mr. htismaqe is right. Execution trumps unpredictability. It's the Lombardi axiom.

But, if your execution is questionable because your tackles would have difficulty blocking a Victoria Secret model on qualudes, the next best thing is to try and keep the enemy defense guessing about what you're going to do at the snap.

Any edge is better than no edge at all. I call it the FAX's Razor axiom.

FAX

My problem is that this whole argument about predictability dates back to the previous regime.

I heard one of those retards on the 610 afternoon show say, point blank "Al Saunders would have never put his QB in the position of getting Tee'd off on down after down."

Really? What happened at Buffalo JUST LAST YEAR?

This whole idea that the reason our offense is suffering because of predictable playcalling is just dumb. The KING of unpredictability got the SAME RESULTS last year when you took away Willie Roaf. In fact, in many cases Saunders' results were WORSE.

FAX
12-12-2006, 02:47 PM
My problem is that this whole argument about predictability dates back to the previous regime.

I heard one of those retards on the 610 afternoon show say, point blank "Al Saunders would have never put his QB in the position of getting Tee'd off on down after down."

Really? What happened at Buffalo JUST LAST YEAR?

This whole idea that the reason our offense is suffering because of predictable playcalling is just dumb. The KING of unpredictability got the SAME RESULTS last year when you took away Willie Roaf. In fact, in many cases Saunders' results were WORSE.

You are, of course, 100% correct again, Mr. htismaqe. As always.

There's no argument from me that our playcalling is handicapped by the level of talent we're putting on the field. Particularly along the lines.

No coach can magically breathe success into a team that executes poorly. The other side of the coin, however, is that, when you have limitations in certain positions, you have to compensate. That's my beef with what we're loosely calling "game planning". Unpredictability in play calling is better than predictability when you have no reason to expect excellence in execution. And, we haven't been able to expect anything close to excellent execution from our o-line or d-line all year. That fact, combined with "predictability", puts our more skilled players at a disadvantage as well.

FAX

htismaqe
12-12-2006, 02:49 PM
You are, of course, 100% correct again, Mr. htismaqe. As always.

There's no argument from me that our playcalling is handicapped by the level of talent we're putting on the field. Particularly along the lines.

No coach can magically breathe success into a team that executes poorly. The other side of the coin, however, is that, when you have limitations in certain positions, you have to compensate. That's my beef with what we're loosely calling "game planning". Unpredictability in play calling is better than predictability when you have no reason to expect excellence in execution. And, we haven't been able to expect anything close to excellent execution from our o-line or d-line all year. That fact, combined with "predictability", puts our more skilled players at a disadvantage as well.

FAX

Great post. I agree with you there.

I've said it multiple times - I'm not HAPPY with what's going on. I'm just perplexed with the virtual head-hunting going on...

Calcountry
12-12-2006, 02:50 PM
Actually, if the gameplan is going to be mostly handing off to LJ, then you're right...finding a QB that executes the playfake very well would be a solid idea.I was being sarcastic, but in all reality, it looks like that WILL be the gameplan next year.

Do you think Brodie is up to it?

htismaqe
12-12-2006, 02:51 PM
I was being sarcastic, but in all reality, it looks like that WILL be the gameplan next year.

Do you think Brodie is up to it?

Trent holds onto the ball too long, primarily because he's grown accustomed to having great protection.

Brodie spent his entire 4 years at Bama running from defenses because his o-line was atrocious.

So is he up to it? Who knows. But he's definitely prepared.

FAX
12-12-2006, 02:56 PM
Brodie can take a hit. He's proven that. I'm not certain he's prepared to take a vicious and constant beating from NFL caliber LBs over 16 weeks, though.

Our emphasis has to be to get our lines up to par. On both sides of the ball. You can forget about winning in the NFL without competitive and consistent line play.

It's a miracle we've won as many games as we have considering how our lines have performed this year. Our team needs surgery from the inside out.

FAX

Reerun_KC
12-12-2006, 02:56 PM
Great post. I agree with you there.

I've said it multiple times - I'm not HAPPY with what's going on. I'm just perplexed with the virtual head-hunting going on...



There was some serious head hunting for GROB going on just a few years ago.

htismaqe
12-12-2006, 02:57 PM
There was some serious head hunting for GROB going on just a few years ago.

Nobody was calling for GROB's head after 13 games in his first season.

htismaqe
12-12-2006, 02:58 PM
Brodie can take a hit. He's proven that. I'm not certain he's prepared to take a vicious and constant beating from NFL caliber LBs over 16 weeks, though.

Our emphasis has to be to get our lines up to par. On both sides of the ball. You can forget about winning in the NFL without competitive and consistent line play.

It's a miracle we've won as many games as we have considering how our lines have performed this year. Our team needs surgery from the inside out.

FAX

Yep, yep, and yep.

We have to get better in the trenches or we're done.

jrowe
12-12-2006, 03:02 PM
With Herm's coaching style, perhaps part of the solution is changing the entire offense. With the current game plan, it seems like we should be running more of a ball control offense - maybe west coast. I'm not in favor of it, but if we're stuck with Herm's game planning, then we need of offense to match it.

Reerun_KC
12-12-2006, 03:05 PM
With Herm's coaching style, perhaps part of the solution is changing the entire offense. With the current game plan, it seems like we should be running more of a ball control offense - maybe west coast. I'm not in favor of it, but if we're stuck with Herm's game planning, then we need of offense to match it.


That is what Herm said in training camp. You cant outscore your opponents on the road, you have to run the ball and control the clock.

Wallcrawler
12-12-2006, 03:49 PM
Bench Green, for Damon Huard.

Heh. Now THAT is funny.

How about we figure out how to get our shitty tackles to protect the starting QB, and THEN we can evaluate who needs to be benched.

Then, after that, we can try to figure out how to get Samie Parker to catch an f'ing ball that hits him in the numbers EVERY TIME.

Then we can also tell ALL of our receivers that if they are going to elect to NOT catch the football, at least have the sense enough to NOT tip the ball STRAIGHT UP INTO THE F'ING AIR FOR EASY INTERCEPTIONS!!!!!!!!


I love how this is all put on Trent Green. He made a couple bad throws, but this isnt like it was all him. No pass protection+inept receivers= bad day at the office for QB.

Yeah, how many times did Green get nailed? When I stopped watching the game midway through the fourth quarter, they had already sacked him 4 times.


First thing that needs to happen is Mike Solari needs to be replaced as OC. My 9 year old little brother calls more creative and successful offense on his Madden 07 game than Solari does on gameday.

Run-Run-Pass on third and long. Punt. Repeat.

I wonder if he knows that it is legal to get the first down before you get to third down? Its sad when I watch a game with my dad who doesnt watch football very much, and I can sit and tell him with about 80% accuracy what the chiefs will call next on offense. It happens and he's like..."How did you know that?" If I can sit and guess what the call is as just a fan, the opposing defensive coordinator should be all over his shit.

Gunther can hit the bricks too. In his time here, his defenses have changed very little. Not only that, but all-pro players have been brought in to play on this defense and it STILL gives up huge plays. It cant be that hard to drill into a safety's head that you cant let anyone get deeper than you.

The front office has some work to do this coming offseason. New Coordinators are needed, as well as a bigtime housecleaning on offense and defense.

Fish
12-12-2006, 04:21 PM
The front office has some work to do this coming offseason. New Coordinators are needed, as well as a bigtime housecleaning on offense and defense.

Fire both coordinators? What happens when the new coordinators want different personnel for a different scheme? Have you thought about the financial requirements of this? How could you go through bigtime housecleaning if we don't know who our OC or DC will be?

I think it's a little silly to call for all this head-chopping when we aren't even through Herm's first season.... People are pissed we aren't in playoff position in a new coach's first year, so they immediately call for mass firings... when it is neither practical nor feasible.... :shake:

We've got problems....but geezuz......

FAX
12-12-2006, 04:30 PM
I agree, Mr. Wallcrawler. I'd take it a step further, though. After we fire everyone of those bastards, we douse the Chiefs' offices with kerosene, burn the place to the ground, and drench the ashes with hydrofluoric acid.

That'll teach 'em to talk about not outscoring your road opponents.

FAX

PastorMikH
12-12-2006, 04:49 PM
Herm needs to hand the O to the OC and leave it alone. I'd like to see what Solari can do without Herm pulling the strings. Ball control is important, but let's put the game away first. And BTW Herm, a FG isn't just as good as a TD.

I'd also like to see us get some WRs that can actually get some separation downfield. I watch other teams WRs and ask myself why our WRs can't get that open.

We also need a mean player with an attitude on D. DV's philosophy of profile guys was a great idea except for one thing, we ended up with a bunch of clean cut guys who have talent, but don't get mad until the interview after the game. Get mad on the field and get physical with the O.

Gunthers had time, he's gotten players. I was glad to see him come back. Now I am hoping we can get a DC that will teach some how to tackle, put on a decent pass rush with just the DL, how not to give away the blitz before it happens, cover downfield, and hold teams on 3rd down.

I've never gotten too excited about Herm. I thought at the first of the season that he might actually be what we need. The team looked prepared going into games and competed. But as the year goes on, they look less and less prepared and fundamentals like tackling have gone out the door. Its almost as if the team, save a few players, has no heart.

Woodrow Call
12-12-2006, 04:56 PM
I agree, Mr. Wallcrawler. I'd take it a step further, though. After we fire everyone of those bastards, we douse the Chiefs' offices with kerosene, burn the place to the ground, and drench the ashes with hydrofluoric acid.

That'll teach 'em to talk about not outscoring your road opponents.

FAX
ROFL

Reerun_KC
12-12-2006, 05:38 PM
I agree, Mr. Wallcrawler. I'd take it a step further, though. After we fire everyone of those bastards, we douse the Chiefs' offices with kerosene, burn the place to the ground, and drench the ashes with hydrofluoric acid.

That'll teach 'em to talk about not outscoring your road opponents.

FAX



Yeah and Lets even go Mike Tyson on them....

Lets bite their ears and eat there childern...

melbar
12-12-2006, 05:42 PM
I agree Herm played it safe.

I disagree that the key to winning or losing that game was pulling Green for Huard.

The more glaring "playing it safe" mistakes, IMO, were running on 29 of 39 first and second downs, and punting from inside the Ravens 40 in the 4th quarter down 13-3.

Exactly! We're playing the best D in the league and letting them know exactly what and when were doing things offensively. We Gave them the advantage and negated ours.

Wallcrawler
12-12-2006, 05:52 PM
Fire both coordinators?

Yes. Get adequate offensive and defensive coordinators in the offseason. There will be coordinators available this offseason who will have more experience than Solari, and be much smarter than Gun. I know that isnt saying much, but the fact remains that there will be coordinators available that can easily do what our coordinators do right now, and maybe even improve things.

What happens when the new coordinators want different personnel for a different scheme?

Honestly, different personnel is a given, whatever scheme the chiefs run. We dont have the D-Line to run the cover 2, nor the safeties to stop the big plays. This team needs new safeties (Pollard and Page could grow into those roles), a legitimate middle linebacker and outside linebacker, A wide receiver that can catch the football when it comes to him, Offensive tackles that dont resemble a revolving door leading to a sacked QB, the list goes on.

If you truly believe that the KC Chiefs are fine with the current personnell, you need to take off the blinders.

Have you thought about the financial requirements of this? How could you go through bigtime housecleaning if we don't know who our OC or DC will be?

Do you really think that whoever comes in will be worse than Solari on offense who runs plays from about a 2-page playbook, or Gunther Cunningham, the guy who makes rookie QBs look like hall of famers? Come on.

I think it's a little silly to call for all this head-chopping when we aren't even through Herm's first season....

Gunther is in his third season here. He has done very little in regard to improving the defensive play. Dude, I could take the Chiefs on the road against a rookie QB and get 31 points dropped on us. Anyone can do that. If Gun doesnt have a pro bowler at nearly every key position on the defense, his scheme just doesnt work.

Solari is so predictable on offense that right now my 9 year old little brother would be a better offensive coordinator than him. If you want to sit through another season of knowing what play is coming before it happens, power to you. Maybe Solari will be retained and your dream will live on for another season.


People are pissed we aren't in playoff position in a new coach's first year, so they immediately call for mass firings... when it is neither practical nor feasible.... :shake:

Do you think that a football team that cannot go on the road and win against a poor football team is well coached? Honestly. Is that really what you think? Losing to the Ravens at home is at least understandable on a few points. The Ravens have been kicking ass this season and were a formidable team.

The Cleveland Browns, The Miami Dolphins, these are teams that the Chiefs should have been able to easily defeat were they an actual championship caliber team.

The Chiefs are Jeykll and Hyde. At Arrowhead they play at their best, but when they leave the confines of Arrowhead their level of play drops significantly. That my friend, is poor coaching.





We've got problems....but geezuz......

We have several problems. Herm cant take care of them all, all the time. Head Coaches delegate responsibility over to their coordinators and coaching staff. If your coordinators are crap, your gameplan suffers, and in turn your performance on the field suffers leading to meltdowns like what we saw against the Dolphins and Browns.

You cant honestly believe that Gunther Cunningham and Mike Solari are the coordinators to get the Chiefs to the superbowl.

Fish
12-12-2006, 06:22 PM
Yes. Get adequate offensive and defensive coordinators in the offseason. There will be coordinators available this offseason who will have more experience than Solari, and be much smarter than Gun. I know that isnt saying much, but the fact remains that there will be coordinators available that can easily do what our coordinators do right now, and maybe even improve things.

Yes there are coordinators out there. And I'm sure there are some available that could do a helluva lot better than who we've got. I've got no mancrush on either that we have. I'm just saying that to think we could replace both in 1 offseason is just ridiculous. You don't just hire a guy and fire him that season if we don't make the SB. Look at Washington. They've been throwing money at coaches and players for years now.... sometimes switching every season... How's that done for them? They've done just about what you're asking for and they have a crappy team... even with 2 of the highest paid coordinators in the league. Do we really want to be the next Redskins organization?

Honestly, different personnel is a given, whatever scheme the chiefs run.
.
.
If you truly believe that the KC Chiefs are fine with the current personnell, you need to take off the blinders.

No I don't believe we'll be fine with this personnel, but we can't replace them all at the same time. With cap limitations, we are stuck with some of these guys and we have to find out how to make them produce. You can't just buy all your talent, you have to learn how to produce talent from what you've got to work with.

I'm not saying I'm happy with what we've got. But in the NFL, you can't just wipe the slate clean and start over with a team. I wish we could, but it's a process that takes time. And it's never as easy as just hiring someone else. Try to be a little realistic as to what we can and can't do.

go bowe
12-12-2006, 07:21 PM
realistic?? :eek:

you can't be realistic around here...

this is chiefspanent...

splatbass
12-12-2006, 08:27 PM
HUH?????


Message to Trent. Son, 3 INTS get your ass benched. What don't you understand?

Message to Huard. Throw 3 INTS, your ass gets benched.

Message to Croyle: See this guy? He threw 3 INTs and got benched. You do it and you get to keep 1 jerzy and your cleats.


Why did Herm do what he did? Herm is a sorry sorry sorry game day coach who cant adjust his necktie.


Not defending Herm here, but there is no coach in the NFL that would keep benching QBs until they ran out. Sometimes you have to stick it out. The pass rush was relentless, and I doubt if Huard would have done any better, certainly a rookie like Croyle wouldn't have. Your method may make you feel like a tough guy, but it won't win any football games.

kpic
12-12-2006, 10:04 PM
The Cleveland Browns, The Miami Dolphins, these are teams that the Chiefs should have been able to easily defeat were they an actual championship caliber team.


They lost those games because they are not an actual championship caliber team. Just believing that they should be a better team doesn’t make it so, unfortunately the Chiefs are an all around average team right now.

Deberg_1990
12-12-2006, 10:20 PM
They lost those games because they are not an actual championship caliber team. Just believing that they should be a better team doesn’t make it so

Good call. I think Chiefs fans for awhile have overrated our team.

We are what we are. Average, plain, stale and vanilla.

kpic
12-12-2006, 10:43 PM
We are what we are. Average, plain, stale and vanilla.

Yep, and hopefully the Chiefs organization recognizes it, wants to and is able to compentently make it better I will be ok with that.

Bright side: we are not the Detroit Lions :)

milkman
12-12-2006, 10:48 PM
Yep, and hopefully the Chiefs organization recognizes it, wants to and is able to compentently make it better I will be ok with that.

Bright side: we are not the Detroit Lions :)

If you lose an average of 7 games a year, or an average of 11 games a year, it makes little difference.

As bad as the Chiefs of the 80's were, they didn't piss me off the way the Chiefs of the last 17+ years have.

Short Leash Hootie
12-12-2006, 10:57 PM
Let me start out by saying, not once during the entire game did I ever think Trent Green should have been benched.

Never even crossed my mind.

When Herm decided to make Trent the starter against Oakland, Damon was going to be the backup for the rest of the season unless Green got hurt. Going back to Huard in the 2nd half would've sent a terrible message to Chiefs players...

That being said...

Green has been sacked 13 times this year in 112 passing attempts.
Huard was sacked 16 times in 241 passing attempts.

Anyone who still thinks Herm made the right choice giving Green his job back is simply wrong, and it's nice to see that OUTSIDE of KC fans, people understand this.

I know you all will continue to wear your homer shades, which is fine...hopefully Trent will end the season on a good note and move on...because I don't see how having Trent back for another year is going to help this organization.

Chiefs Pantalones
12-12-2006, 10:58 PM
My friends and I are planning a road trip for this time next year. Why, you may ask, are you doing that during football season? I love football, but the Chiefs season will likely be over by this time next year as well, lol.

Wallcrawler
12-12-2006, 11:07 PM
Yes there are coordinators out there. And I'm sure there are some available that could do a helluva lot better than who we've got. I've got no mancrush on either that we have. I'm just saying that to think we could replace both in 1 offseason is just ridiculous. You don't just hire a guy and fire him that season if we don't make the SB. Look at Washington. They've been throwing money at coaches and players for years now.... sometimes switching every season... How's that done for them? They've done just about what you're asking for and they have a crappy team... even with 2 of the highest paid coordinators in the league. Do we really want to be the next Redskins organization?


Gunther has been here for THREE seasons. Very little to cheer about in terms of defensive play, and defensive schemes.

Mike Solari had no prior experience as an offensive coordinator. What Ive seen from him thusfar is a vanilla, predictable offensive scheme.

There is no reason the Chiefs cannot replace both coordinators in one offseason.



No I don't believe we'll be fine with this personnel, but we can't replace them all at the same time. With cap limitations, we are stuck with some of these guys and we have to find out how to make them produce. You can't just buy all your talent, you have to learn how to produce talent from what you've got to work with.


And you believe Gunther is the man to make our pretenders on defense into contenders? Honestly. Greg Wesley is one of Gun's favorites, and year after year we see the same poor play. Kendrell Bell is invisible on gameday, yet Gun still raves that he is the guy we need on the outside. We've had subpar defensive line play since Gun came to save the defense as well.

And Mike Solari, I give him credit for the great work he did for our O-line when he was their coach. But overall this season, the line play has been some of the worst ive seen as a chiefs fan. I dont see Mike Solari as the guy who can develop an entire cast of offensive performers.

So if we are stuck with some players, we better get the coaches to get them to produce, yes?

I'm not saying I'm happy with what we've got. But in the NFL, you can't just wipe the slate clean and start over with a team. I wish we could, but it's a process that takes time. And it's never as easy as just hiring someone else. Try to be a little realistic as to what we can and can't do.

You most certainly can wipe the slate clean and start over. The Chiefs just need to bite the bullet, call a spade a spade and cut the guys who cant perform. Realise these guys dont get it done. Admit it. And then take action. Dont continue to hang on to these guys for too many years hoping they will all of a sudden learn how to play. Guys like Hicks, Bell, Bartee, guys we all complain about every season.

Yeah, the Chiefs would have a pretty nasty season if they just cleaned house and got an injection of fresh players in there. But really, a season where you dont make the playoffs AND have shitty draft position doesnt accomplish anything either, so what do they have to lose, aside from a few more games than usual?

Shake things up. Cut the guys who just dont get the job done, players and coaches alike. Give the younger guys like Pollard and Page their shots.

All the Chiefs are doing right now is staying middle of the pack, having mediocre seasons and ending up without playoff appearances and having next to nothing to show for it in terms of draft position.

The guys that show promise, keep em. The ones who have been yearly disappointments, show em the door. Theyve been stealing their checks here for long enough.

Christ. At least then the fans would have a reason as to why the Chiefs arent winning, and at the same time have the promise that they have a young team that could become really good. Not a patchwork amalgam of young guys mixed with has beens and never was.