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Chiefnj
12-12-2006, 12:16 PM
In more news, the score was Baltimore 13, Kansas City 3 with 12 minutes remaining and Chiefs facing fourth-and-6 on the visitor's 39. That cannot be the punting team coming on the field -- Aaaaaiiiiiiiyyyyyyeeeee! I rent my garments and cried aloud to the football gods, but it was too late. You're down by two scores in the fourth quarter and you are punting from the opponent's 39! Needless to say as the punt boomed TMQ wrote the words "game over" in his notebook, and I barely even need to mention the Ravens took the ball the other way for the touchdown that sent the home audience headed up the tunnels to the parking lot. NFL coaches will do anything to shift the blame from themselves to their players, but this fraidy-cat punt took the cake. Plus with Baltimore's defense so difficult to drive against when, exactly, did Herm Edwards think he was going to get a better opportunity to mount a comeback?

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-12-2006, 12:18 PM
Case in point why Herm should never have been our coach.

BigRedChief
12-12-2006, 12:19 PM
SI has an article trashing him for the decision also.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=154253

StcChief
12-12-2006, 12:19 PM
that was a WTF moment for me too...

Playing for hope the D stops them again....

bkkcoh
12-12-2006, 12:19 PM
No win situation.

Would have been a totally different game if the defense would have been able to get a 3 and out.

HonestChieffan
12-12-2006, 12:20 PM
He cannot be gone soon enough. The question is how bad must it get before Clark Hunt comes to the rescue

Reerun_KC
12-12-2006, 12:22 PM
No win situation.

Would have been a totally different game if the defense would have been able to get a 3 and out.


No it wouldnt, not even close. you look on the side line and look at that piece of crap with the blank stare. He was scared sh*tless and B-more was handing it to him in all 3 phases of the game.


Herm got owned. This wasnt the first time and wont be the last. Agian like so many times before he took the Chicken exit with the season on the line...


I agree with HummusJenkins, Never should of been hired.

FAX
12-12-2006, 12:24 PM
I couldn't watch the game. What was the down/distance on that fourth down?

FAX

bkkcoh
12-12-2006, 12:24 PM
I couldn't watch the game. What was the down/distance on that fourth down?

FAX


4th and 6 from the Balt 39

Bearcat
12-12-2006, 12:24 PM
No win situation.

Would have been a totally different game if the defense would have been able to get a 3 and out.

It would have been 13-3 with 8 minutes to go. If you have 3 points in the 4th quarter, you're probably happy to be across the 50, so there's no way you punt and hope you score two more times after that.

Down by 7? Yes, you're damned if you do & damned if you don't.

Punting in that situation is on the other side of the world from playing to win the game.

Reerun_KC
12-12-2006, 12:25 PM
It was 4th and 6, but we passed incomplete on 3rd down if I remember right...

BigRedChief
12-12-2006, 12:27 PM
I couldn't watch the game. What was the down/distance on that fourth down?

FAX
It was 6 yards but the key is that they were on the Ravens 39 yard line. Punting could only give you 19 yards back and the defense hadn't stopped anyone all game. 19 yards wasn't chit. And of course they punter and pinned them back deep and the went on a 9 mintue TD drive and put the game away.

Dave Lane
12-12-2006, 12:27 PM
4 and 6 from the Ravens 39 well we did get 19 yards of field position.

Dave

tk13
12-12-2006, 12:27 PM
I really don't have a problem with that move. The defense has to step up. Then you're back on a short field anyway. That's why I'm not really that hard on the offense. We're a defensive football team now... our defense has to make stops in those positions.

Reerun_KC
12-12-2006, 12:29 PM
I really don't have a problem with that move. The defense has to step up. Then you're back on a short field anyway. That's why I'm not really that hard on the offense. We're a defensive football team now... our defense has to make stops in those positions.


your not serious are you?

ROFLROFLROFLROFL

NewChief
12-12-2006, 12:29 PM
It was 6 yards but the key is that they were on the Ravens 39 yard line. Punting could only give you 19 yards back and the defense hadn't stopped anyone all game. 19 yards wasn't chit. And of course they punter and pinned them back deep and the went on a 9 mintue TD drive and put the game away.

Heh. When we punted it away, my wife said, "They're going to run the clock down to 3 minutes" (she's an eternal pessimist, and we usually argue constantly through a game). I told her that was ridiculous. No way they eat up that much time on the drive. Boy, did I eat my words. I really hate being wrong when my wife is involved, especially about football.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-12-2006, 12:30 PM
I really don't have a problem with that move. The defense has to step up. Then you're back on a short field anyway. That's why I'm not really that hard on the offense. We're a defensive football team now... our defense has to make stops in those positions.

With it being 4 down territory, they should have considered running a draw on 3rd down to make the 4th down call more manageable. But given the incompetence of the gameplan in general and the deer-in-the-headlights actions of the coach, it's not surprising.

tk13
12-12-2006, 12:32 PM
your not serious are you?

ROFLROFLROFLROFL
Absolutely. If we're going to have a Super Bowl team, we're going to need a good defense, one who can make stops in those positions. There's 12 minutes to go, that's a long time, and we're playing a defense that's wrecked our passing game all day.

If it was a 38-31 game, I'd say that was a completely stupid coaching move to punt, but it was a low scoring defensive game.

You'd trust Baltimore's defense in that position, wouldn't you?

Fat Elvis
12-12-2006, 12:33 PM
I couldn't watch the game.

FAX

Don't worry, fans are mad enough that there won't be any sellout games next year so none of us will be able to see the games.

Fine by me, I'm sick of wasting my Sundays with this team. Just give me a box score so I can congratulate myself on a better use of my time and energy.

Bearcat
12-12-2006, 12:34 PM
I really don't have a problem with that move. The defense has to step up. Then you're back on a short field anyway. That's why I'm not really that hard on the offense. We're a defensive football team now... our defense has to make stops in those positions.

If it was 24-14, I'd agree... or even 34-24, I'd say "Okay defense, you've sucked, but here's your chance", because you're at home and Baltimore would be backed up..... 3 points, it's time to say "Okay offense, you've sucked, but here's your chance", because you're across the 50 and need 6 freakin' yards.

CoMoChief
12-12-2006, 12:35 PM
39+17=56

Tynes can hit that. The wind was at this back. Herm doesn't know wtf he's doing sometimes. A child playing Madden sometimes has more knowledge about the management of a game than Herm does.

bkkcoh
12-12-2006, 12:35 PM
4 and 6 from the Ravens 39 well we did get 19 yards of field position.

Dave

Dave,

Not according to the play-by-play:

Link (http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/gamecenter/playbyplay/NFL_20061210_BAL@KC)

1-10-BAL43 (12:58) L.Johnson up the middle to BLT 39 for 4 yards (K.Gregg).
2-6-BAL39 (12:20) T.Green pass incomplete to E.Kennison.
3-6-BAL39 (12:15) (Shotgun) T.Green pass incomplete to S.Parker (S.Rolle).
4-6-BAL39 (12:11) D.Colquitt punts 25 yards to BLT 14, Center-K.Gammon. C.Ross to BLT 14 for no gain (B.Pollard).

tk13
12-12-2006, 12:35 PM
With it being 4 down territory, they should have considered running a draw on 3rd down to make the 4th down call more manageable. But given the incompetence of the gameplan in general and the deer-in-the-headlights actions of the coach, it's not surprising.
Now that's probably a fair point. If it was like 4th and 3 it would be different. 4th and 6 was an obvious passing down and the way the passing game had been shut down, I don't know.

Reerun_KC
12-12-2006, 12:35 PM
Absolutely. If we're going to have a Super Bowl team, we're going to need a good defense, one who can make stops in those positions. There's 12 minutes to go, that's a long time, and we're playing a defense that's wrecked our passing game all day.

If it was a 38-31 game, I'd say that was a completely stupid coaching move to punt, but it was a low scoring defensive game.

You'd trust Baltimore's defense in that position, wouldn't you?


Absolutely I would trust Baltimores D then, also depending on who they were playing. KC yes, Indy or SD it would be a tough choice..


True, we have to have a defense, but we also need to have an offense that is balanced and can score as well. You have to take risks and chances to move on. Sitting on the KC defense is not a risk worth taking and a move that cost the season two weeks in a row.

Fat Elvis
12-12-2006, 12:35 PM
Absolutely. If we're going to have a Super Bowl team, we're going to need a good defense, one who can make stops in those positions. There's 12 minutes to go, that's a long time, and we're playing a defense that's wrecked our passing game all day.

If it was a 38-31 game, I'd say that was a completely stupid coaching move to punt, but it was a low scoring defensive game.

You'd trust Baltimore's defense in that position, wouldn't you?

Baltimore doesn't have a Greg Wesley or Ryan Sims (or whoever the sludge in the middle is these days) on thier team....

Chiefnj
12-12-2006, 12:37 PM
Dave,

Not according to the play-by-play:

Link (http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/gamecenter/playbyplay/NFL_20061210_BAL@KC)

1-10-BAL43 (12:58) L.Johnson up the middle to BLT 39 for 4 yards (K.Gregg).
2-6-BAL39 (12:20) T.Green pass incomplete to E.Kennison.
3-6-BAL39 (12:15) (Shotgun) T.Green pass incomplete to S.Parker (S.Rolle).
4-6-BAL39 (12:11) D.Colquitt punts 25 yards to BLT 14, Center-K.Gammon. C.Ross to BLT 14 for no gain (B.Pollard).


Wow, 25 yards! Brilliant!!

bkkcoh
12-12-2006, 12:38 PM
Wow, 25 yards! Brilliant!!


Granted, it wasn't colquitt's best punt, but would have been enough if the defense would have shown up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Reerun_KC
12-12-2006, 12:40 PM
Wow, 25 yards! Brilliant!!

Brilliant!!!! That word about sums up the coaching staff this year as a whole.

Yeah they were dealt some bad cards, but they didnt do anything to improve themselves yet. They set on their hands and just played what was dealt.

Dumbasses!

Chiefnj
12-12-2006, 12:42 PM
Granted, it wasn't colquitt's best punt, but would have been enough if the defense would have shown up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No it wouldn't because the Chiefs offense still has to make 2 drives and get 2 scores against arguably the best defense in the NFL; one that held KC to 3 points at that point. There is no guarantee the offense would get past the 39 again.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-12-2006, 12:43 PM
Granted, it wasn't colquitt's best punt, but would have been enough if the defense would have shown up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know the axiom that says you never take points off the board? It extends to areas like this--you never take golden opportunities to get points away from your team in critical situations.

htismaqe
12-12-2006, 12:46 PM
It's amazing how much preconceived notions about a coach contribute to a discussion like this.

I remember getting beat up pretty bad when criticizing Dick Vermeil for the EXACT SAME TYPE OF DECISION.

KcMizzou
12-12-2006, 12:50 PM
If you pin them inside the 5, and force a 3 and out... it looks like a great decision.

I dont have a huge problem with it either way.

:shrug:

Reerun_KC
12-12-2006, 12:54 PM
It's amazing how much preconceived notions about a coach contribute to a discussion like this.

I remember getting beat up pretty bad when criticizing Dick Vermeil for the EXACT SAME TYPE OF DECISION.


Problem with this is, Today our defense is good enough to allow clock eating drives. I mean that by putting teams in 3rd and long then giving up the first down sustaining the drive.

DV's teams 32 defense would of allowed them to score quickly or they would of made an error on their own and give us the ball back.

The difference is DV's team might of had 3-4 more possessions and where Herms gave us one.

Season was on the line, we had to do something. Herm is damned if he does and Damned if he dont. Life of a headcoach.

bkkcoh
12-12-2006, 12:55 PM
You know the axiom that says you never take points off the board? It extends to areas like this--you never take golden opportunities to get points away from your team in critical situations.
I don't disagree with you. They weren't set up to go in four down areas because of passing on 2nd and 3rd down. They should have run on 2 and 6, that is a manageable down and distance.

No it wouldn't because the Chiefs offense still has to make 2 drives and get 2 scores against arguably the best defense in the NFL; one that held KC to 3 points at that point. There is no guarantee the offense would get past the 39 again.


I think KC was able to move the ball enough, the turnovers and missed FG (I think that set the tone for the game more than anyone wants to admit because they were able to move the ball on the vaunted Balt defense and they end up getting not points out of it...

They were averaging 4.6 yards per play and Balt was averaging 6.2 yards per play, highly inflated by the 87 yard TD pass and the 33 yard pass.

htismaqe
12-12-2006, 12:59 PM
Problem with this is, Today our defense is good enough to allow clock eating drives. I mean that by putting teams in 3rd and long then giving up the first down sustaining the drive.

DV's teams 32 defense would of allowed them to score quickly or they would of made an error on their own and give us the ball back.

The difference is DV's team might of had 3-4 more possessions and where Herms gave us one.

Season was on the line, we had to do something. Herm is damned if he does and Damned if he dont. Life of a headcoach.

And DV's team also gave the opponent 3-4 more possessions.

How do you want to lose? 17-10? Or 42-35? Either way, it's a loss.

It just never ceases to amaze me how nostalgia works. If I were a fan of another team just coming here for the first time, there are instances on this board where I could swear the Chiefs were just coming off a Super Bowl win or something.

Reerun_KC
12-12-2006, 01:03 PM
And DV's team also gave the opponent 3-4 more possessions.

How do you want to lose? 17-10? Or 42-35? Either way, it's a loss.

It just never ceases to amaze me how nostalgia works. If I were a fan of another team just coming here for the first time, there are instances on this board where I could swear the Chiefs were just coming off a Super Bowl win or something.


Well the chiefs loss their fair share of those 41-38 games and those 20-17 games with Marty. Yep a loss is a loss. No way around it.


But you and I both know after the coaching debacle in Cleveland. This team and coaches had to step up and take a gamble to win this game.

They took the "Chicken Exit" Plain and simple.

Chiefnj
12-12-2006, 01:06 PM
And DV's team also gave the opponent 3-4 more possessions.

How do you want to lose? 17-10? Or 42-35? Either way, it's a loss.

It just never ceases to amaze me how nostalgia works. If I were a fan of another team just coming here for the first time, there are instances on this board where I could swear the Chiefs were just coming off a Super Bowl win or something.

You need to get over DV. He is gone. No matter what DV did or didn't do, it doesn't change the fact that Herm played scared and didn't play to win - again.

htismaqe
12-12-2006, 01:08 PM
You need to get over DV. He is gone. No matter what DV did or didn't do, it doesn't change the fact that Herm played scared and didn't play to win - again.

I've been over DV for a couple of years.

But it's quite simple: Herm is not getting the same benefit of the doubt DV did.

BigRedChief
12-12-2006, 01:21 PM
I've been over DV for a couple of years.

But it's quite simple: Herm is not getting the same benefit of the doubt DV did.
I'm sure that having the Jets fans come over here and tell us to be prepared for poor game and clock management with Herm has something to do with him having no grace period with some here

Reerun_KC
12-12-2006, 01:24 PM
I've been over DV for a couple of years.

But it's quite simple: Herm is not getting the same benefit of the doubt DV did.


Chiefnj - nobody said they were crying about DV being here.... It was a discussion on coaching styles and philosopy's...


Hitsmaque - I think the reason Herm doesnt get the benefit of the doubt here comes down to a few things.

This is 2006 getting ready for 2007. Coaching has changed alot in the last 6 years. The fans did not want to go back to the dark years of Martyball.. When they hired a clone of marty in Herm. It really sent alot of the fans on a downward spiral, no matter what Herm did, it will never be right. I for one have fallen into that trap...

DV wasnt the best coach. He neglected his D. But you see coaches out there, some young and some older, but they are creative, exciting and passionate about "Playing to win the game". Sean Peyton is a great example, freaking onside kick up 3 scores..... Brilliant! beat the other team down!

Well Sunday was a great example of Martyball, punt the ball away and play defense with the season on the line. Chief fans are tired of it already, Herm's act is wearing thin on a very intelligent crowd of football fans.

So until Martyball leaves KC agian. These fans arent going to be happy with Herm or the results. Not Herms fault. He just doesnt have the balls to take risks and Play to win the game.

htismaqe
12-12-2006, 01:32 PM
Chiefnj - nobody said they were crying about DV being here.... It was a discussion on coaching styles and philosopy's...


Hitsmaque - I think the reason Herm doesnt get the benefit of the doubt here comes down to a few things.

This is 2006 getting ready for 2007. Coaching has changed alot in the last 6 years. The fans did not want to go back to the dark years of Martyball.. When they hired a clone of marty in Herm. It really sent alot of the fans on a downward spiral, no matter what Herm did, it will never be right. I for one have fallen into that trap...

DV wasnt the best coach. He neglected his D. But you see coaches out there, some young and some older, but they are creative, exciting and passionate about "Playing to win the game". Sean Peyton is a great example, freaking onside kick up 3 scores..... Brilliant! beat the other team down!

Well Sunday was a great example of Martyball, punt the ball away and play defense with the season on the line. Chief fans are tired of it already, Herm's act is wearing thin on a very intelligent crowd of football fans.

So until Martyball leaves KC agian. These fans arent going to be happy with Herm or the results. Not Herms fault. He just doesnt have the balls to take risks and Play to win the game.

So basically Herm is paying for Marty's mistakes? And Vermeil gets a free pass not because the results of his coaching style are BETTER but because his MEANS to get there are DIFFERENT?

I guess after being here for 6 years I should expect that kind of thing.

htismaqe
12-12-2006, 01:34 PM
And if Sean Payton's onside kick had been returned for a TD and become the catalyst for a 3-score comeback resulting in a LOSS, he would be universally heralded as an IDIOT.

Chiefnj
12-12-2006, 01:36 PM
I've been over DV for a couple of years.

But it's quite simple: Herm is not getting the same benefit of the doubt DV did.



"And Vermeil gets a free pass not because the results of his coaching style are BETTER but because his MEANS to get there are DIFFERENT?"


I don't think your quite over DV yet.

Pitt Gorilla
12-12-2006, 01:37 PM
That decision completely baffled me. I think that move captured Herm's conservative nature more than just about any other this season. Conservatism just doesn't cut it.

Chieficus
12-12-2006, 01:37 PM
Hitsmaque - I think the reason Herm doesnt get the benefit of the doubt here comes down to a few things.

This is 2006 getting ready for 2007. Coaching has changed alot in the last 6 years. The fans did not want to go back to the dark years of Martyball.. When they hired a clone of marty in Herm. It really sent alot of the fans on a downward spiral, no matter what Herm did, it will never be right. I for one have fallen into that trap...

DV wasnt the best coach. He neglected his D. But you see coaches out there, some young and some older, but they are creative, exciting and passionate about "Playing to win the game". Sean Peyton is a great example, freaking onside kick up 3 scores..... Brilliant! beat the other team down!

Well Sunday was a great example of Martyball, punt the ball away and play defense with the season on the line. Chief fans are tired of it already, Herm's act is wearing thin on a very intelligent crowd of football fans.

So until Martyball leaves KC agian. These fans arent going to be happy with Herm or the results. Not Herms fault. He just doesnt have the balls to take risks and Play to win the game.

I really didn't like DV (though loved his offense for the most part), and have been cautiously optimistic about Herm... But these past two weeks have been pretty bad... Every team has a fluke game here and there where stuff just breaks down, but going into the home stretch the good teams step up and win...

Our team looks more like we're wearing down...

Reerun_KC
12-12-2006, 01:39 PM
So basically Herm is paying for Marty's mistakes? And Vermeil gets a free pass not because the results of his coaching style are BETTER but because his MEANS to get there are DIFFERENT?

I guess after being here for 6 years I should expect that kind of thing.


DV never got a free pass from me. His total lack of intrest in the Defense cost this organization at least one or maybe 2 shots at a superbowl...


Herm is not paying for Marty's Mistakes. He is making the same mistakes as Marty used too, making his own bed and having to sleep in it.... For some reason Chiefs fans have a long memory of Martyball tendencies.

BTW, the only reason Marty has changed is because of the GM of the Chargers. From what I have read or heard, the told Marty to get his sh*t together or get out.. Results? Marty is surprising alot of people and has a real shot of superbowl. ROLF

Dont be so hostile, It is just a freindly discussion.

htismaqe
12-12-2006, 01:41 PM
"And Vermeil gets a free pass not because the results of his coaching style are BETTER but because his MEANS to get there are DIFFERENT?"


I don't think your quite over DV yet.

I think you've managed to just skip over the bulk of the posts here since the season started.

If you haven't seen the constant comparisons, you simply haven't been reading.

htismaqe
12-12-2006, 01:43 PM
DV never got a free pass from me. His total lack of intrest in the Defense cost this organization at least one or maybe 2 shots at a superbowl...


Herm is not paying for Marty's Mistakes. He is making the same mistakes as Marty used too, making his own bed and having to sleep in it.... For some reason Chiefs fans have a long memory of Martyball tendencies.

BTW, the only reason Marty has changed is because of the GM of the Chargers. From what I have read or heard, the told Marty to get his sh*t together or get out.. Results? Marty is surprising alot of people and has a real shot of superbowl. ROLF

Dont be so hostile, It is just a freindly discussion.

I'm not being hostile. The caps are for EMPHASIS, not anger.

And as far as the comparison, how can one be made? The playoffs haven't happened yet. And until they do, nobody can say that Marty has changed...

siberian khatru
12-12-2006, 01:44 PM
I think you've managed to just skip over the bulk of the posts here since the season started.

If you haven't seen the constant comparisons, you simply haven't been reading.

I've seen constant comparisons from a handful of the same posters, and most of them shouldn't be taken seriously on ANYTHING. They're morons.

You need to chill out and not let those idjits get to you. And better yet, don't lump all of us who are upset with playcalling into that group. ;)

Reerun_KC
12-12-2006, 01:44 PM
I'm not being hostile. The caps are for EMPHASIS, not anger.

And as far as the comparison, how can one be made? The playoffs haven't happened yet. And until they do, nobody can say that Marty has changed...


I was being sarcastic in that sense. "Marty = playoff success"

Appologize on the hostile comments.

htismaqe
12-12-2006, 01:46 PM
I've seen constant comparisons from a handful of the same posters, and most of them shouldn't be taken seriously on ANYTHING. They're morons.

You need to chill out and not let those idjits get to you. And better yet, don't lump all of us who are upset with playcalling into that group. ;)

Fair enough.

I just don't get it.

The guy's coached 13 games and it's already decided he should be fired. Other coaches in KC (other than Gunther, and rightfully so I might add) haven't been held to that kind of standard. Other team's fans read this shit and just laugh at us.

Reerun_KC
12-12-2006, 01:52 PM
Fair enough.

I just don't get it.

The guy's coached 13 games and it's already decided he should be fired. Other coaches in KC (other than Gunther, and rightfully so I might add) haven't been held to that kind of standard. Other team's fans read this shit and just laugh at us.


Hitsmaqe, alot of people are taking his over all coaching career into account here.

Herm has coached alot more that 13 games. Just 13 here in KC. Problem is, people are following the games, teams and coaches, more today then they were say 10 years ago. You have multiple media outlets that cover NFL all the time. Almost information overload.

I guess the thing is, we are seeing the same things here in KC that plagued him in NYJ.

Its not that he is not a bad coach. He just has revolving issues that continue to show there ugly head and the worst possible times. Will he ever correct them? I guess only time well tell.

siberian khatru, You might want to remove your lips from Hitsmaqe ass...

htismaqe
12-12-2006, 01:56 PM
Hitsmaqe, alot of people are taking his over all coaching career into account here.

Herm has coached alot more that 13 games. Just 13 here in KC. Problem is, people are following the games, teams and coaches, more today then they were say 10 years ago. You have multiple media outlets that cover NFL all the time. Almost information overload.

I guess the thing is, we are seeing the same things here in KC that plagued him in NYJ.

Its not that he is not a bad coach. He just has revolving issues that continue to show there ugly head and the worst possible times. Will he ever correct them? I guess only time well tell.

siberian khatru, You might want to remove your lips from Hitsmaqe ass...

If they're taking his stint in New York into account, why are they ready to give up before the first season is even over?

He took the Jets to playoff games more times in 5 years than the Chiefs have seen in the last FIFTEEN.

The same "trigger happy" mentality applies to Marty. We've seen tons of posts about the "Super Bowl" Chargers being the best team in the league. Apparently, Herm's past is 100% applicable, whereas Marty's isn't.

Reerun_KC
12-12-2006, 02:02 PM
If they're taking his stint in New York into account, why are they ready to give up before the first season is even over?

He took the Jets to playoff games more times in 5 years than the Chiefs have seen in the last FIFTEEN.

The same "trigger happy" mentality applies to Marty. We've seen tons of posts about the "Super Bowl" Chargers being the best team in the league. Apparently, Herm's past is 100% applicable, whereas Marty's isn't.


I for one think Marty will hose it up. It is in his nature and history loves to repeat itself....

Yes herm took them to the playoffs, what 3 times in 5 years and his record was 2-3? Which is much more than I can say for DV or Marty both as the chiefs head coaches. Marty thanks Montana for 2 of his all time playoff wins.

Agian time will tell, but if we continue to see a trend of history with Herm, how are we going to know it will change for the better?

Is the goal the playoffs or championships? Herm has 3 more years to decide that for us? Are we serious about the superbowl or are we wanting to go back to the one and done years? So Carl can charge more money for parking?

I want to see a championship in my life time. We have had enough of one and dones. But you have to make the playoffs first. I do know that.

htismaqe
12-12-2006, 02:05 PM
I for one think Marty will hose it up. It is in his nature and history loves to repeat itself....

Yes herm took them to the playoffs, what 3 times in 5 years and his record was 2-3? Which is much more than I can say for DV or Marty both as the chiefs head coaches. Marty thanks Montana for 2 of his all time playoff wins.

Agian time will tell, but if we continue to see a trend of history with Herm, how are we going to know it will change for the better?

Is the goal the playoffs or championships? Herm has 3 more years to decide that for us? Are we serious about the superbowl or are we wanting to go back to the one and done years? So Carl can charge more money for parking?

I want to see a championship in my life time. We have had enough of one and dones. But you have to make the playoffs first. I do know that.

I want to see a championship as well.

But when you're team hasn't won a single playoff game for going on fifteen years, is it really realistic to hope for a first-year coach to win it all? Let's just get there first.

ClevelandChief
12-12-2006, 02:07 PM
Absolutely. If we're going to have a Super Bowl team, we're going to need a good defense, one who can make stops in those positions. There's 12 minutes to go, that's a long time, and we're playing a defense that's wrecked our passing game all day.

If it was a 38-31 game, I'd say that was a completely stupid coaching move to punt, but it was a low scoring defensive game.

You'd trust Baltimore's defense in that position, wouldn't you?


Ok...you're not honestly comparing Baltimore's D to ours..... LOL. Down by 10 with 12 minutes to go and driving pretty well you don't punt on 4th and 6 from their 39 period it was a pussyfied play by a huge brown vagina with a mustache.

Point is, whether they got the ball on their 1 or on the 39 they were going to run out time on our D.

Chiefnj
12-12-2006, 02:07 PM
Fair enough.

I just don't get it.

The guy's coached 13 games and it's already decided he should be fired. Other coaches in KC (other than Gunther, and rightfully so I might add) haven't been held to that kind of standard. Other team's fans read this shit and just laugh at us.


To be fair, other teams laughed at KC when the Chiefs hired Herm. They didn't need to wait 13 games.

Reerun_KC
12-12-2006, 02:08 PM
I want to see a championship as well.

But when you're team hasn't won a single playoff game for going on fifteen years, is it really realistic to hope for a first-year coach to win it all? Let's just get there first.


Agreed.


I know the reason I gave DV more of a free pass was the fact that he won a championship with STL.. Fluke or not, whatever, he won a SB ring.

Herm hasnt, was in the most brutal playoff game in the history of the nfl. MARTYBOWL in SD.. Just a pitiful, sickening game to watch. Yes he did whitewash Indy one year as well...

I think that preception is why alot of people where more willing to give DV more of a pass then Herm is getting. Just a thought.

bkkcoh
12-12-2006, 02:10 PM
If they're taking his stint in New York into account, why are they ready to give up before the first season is even over?

He took the Jets to playoff games more times in 5 years than the Chiefs have seen in the last FIFTEEN.

The same "trigger happy" mentality applies to Marty. We've seen tons of posts about the "Super Bowl" Chargers being the best team in the league. Apparently, Herm's past is 100% applicable, whereas Marty's isn't.


Did people forget that our 2nd QB played in 8 games this year.

The offensive line is/was trying to mesh as a unit because of retirement, injuries, people playing out of position.

I along with most people were probably overly optimistic about the chances of making a playoff run with the changes the team has gone through.

The experts weren't predicting a record of better than .500 and they didn't have any knowledge of Trent being out of the lineup for half the season.

Am I happy with all of the decisions that has been made pertaining the Chiefs, no. But I am pleased with the improvement that has been shown on defense, even though they need more.

I certainly hope there isn't a run of purple kool-aid. But if there is so be it....


:banghead:

dirk digler
12-12-2006, 02:12 PM
I've been over DV for a couple of years.

But it's quite simple: Herm is not getting the same benefit of the doubt DV did.

Because DV has been the Head Coach in 2 Super Bowls and won 1 of them.

Herm hasn't done shit in this league as a head coach.

the Talking Can
12-12-2006, 02:15 PM
punt was retarded

essence of play to lose

Reerun_KC
12-12-2006, 02:15 PM
Because DV has been the Head Coach in 2 Super Bowls and won 1 of them.

Herm hasn't done shit in this league as a head coach.


Well that is one way to put it...

I tried to be more eliquent about it.. LOL!

htismaqe
12-12-2006, 02:16 PM
To be fair, other teams laughed at KC when the Chiefs hired Herm. They didn't need to wait 13 games.

Jets fans don't count.

I have quite a few friends who are Bronco fans and I participate in 2 other football-related bulletin boards.

NOWHERE was the Herm hire more hated than here. Most everybody I talked to thought it was a good hire for the Chiefs.

Reerun_KC
12-12-2006, 02:17 PM
NOWHERE was the Herm hire more hated than here. Most everybody I talked to thought it was a good hire for the Chiefs.


You might need new friends.. Kidding!

htismaqe
12-12-2006, 02:17 PM
Because DV has been the Head Coach in 2 Super Bowls and won 1 of them.

Herm hasn't done shit in this league as a head coach.

Yeah, that Super Bowl in St. Louis sure meant a lot for the Chiefs.

The one thing we should have all learned from that Super Bowl is that history doesn't always repeat itself...

Reerun_KC
12-12-2006, 02:21 PM
Yeah, that Super Bowl in St. Louis sure meant a lot for the Chiefs.

The one thing we should have all learned from that Super Bowl is that history doesn't always repeat itself...


No it didnt mean crap, but it gave us hope that we had a coach that could get it done.....

BTW, history does repeat itself... How many times has marty pissed down his legs in the first round of the playoffs?

:Poke:

dirk digler
12-12-2006, 02:27 PM
Yeah, that Super Bowl in St. Louis sure meant a lot for the Chiefs.

The one thing we should have all learned from that Super Bowl is that history doesn't always repeat itself...

No but it does give him the credibility to say that if you want to go to the Super Bowl this is how you do it. Herm doesn't have that.

jrowe
12-12-2006, 02:31 PM
Herm doesn't get the benefit that DV did because of past history. DV coached two different teames to the SB, winning once. He coaches with passion and emotion. He actually answers reporters questions rather than deny the obvious. He was also much more charismatic. So, he got the benefit of the doubt for a long time.

Herm has a track record of conservative coaching that produces wins but hurts the team in terms of post season advancement. Also, he has poor game planning and game management skills as judged by his tenure with the Jets. Many also feel that he coached only to the talent level of his teams. He did not coach up his teams and put them in position to succeed. Rather, he coached to limit their chances to fail. Also, you can't discount his lack of charisma. Constantly evading questions and making excuses sickens everyone in short order. It make you feel like "if he can't acknowledge the problem, then there is no hope for him fixing it." I believe a combination of the above gives him a much shorter leash than usual.

I, for one, was sickened by his hire, and he can't leave soon enough for me.

siberian khatru
12-12-2006, 02:33 PM
punt was retarded

essence of play to lose

DV LOVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



;)

Reerun_KC
12-12-2006, 02:35 PM
Herm doesn't get the benefit that DV did because of past history. DV coached two different teames to the SB, winning once. He coaches with passion and emotion. He actually answers reporters questions rather than deny the obvious. He was also much more charismatic. So, he got the benefit of the doubt for a long time.

Herm has a track record of conservative coaching that produces wins but hurts the team in terms of post season advancement. Also, he has poor game planning and game management skills as judged by his tenure with the Jets. Many also feel that he coached only to the talent level of his teams. He did not coach up his teams and put them in position to succeed. Rather, he coached to limit their chances to fail. Also, you can't discount his lack of charisma. Constantly evading questions and making excuses sickens everyone in short order. It make you feel like "if he can't acknowledge the problem, then there is no hope for him fixing it." I believe a combination of the above gives him a much shorter leash than usual.

I, for one, was sickened by his hire, and he can't leave soon enough for me.


Very nice analogy of the coaching differences...

htismaqe
12-12-2006, 02:35 PM
Herm doesn't get the benefit that DV did because of past history. DV coached two different teames to the SB, winning once. He coaches with passion and emotion. He actually answers reporters questions rather than deny the obvious. He was also much more charismatic. So, he got the benefit of the doubt for a long time.

Herm has a track record of conservative coaching that produces wins but hurts the team in terms of post season advancement. Also, he has poor game planning and game management skills as judged by his tenure with the Jets. Many also feel that he coached only to the talent level of his teams. He did not coach up his teams and put them in position to succeed. Rather, he coached to limit their chances to fail. Also, you can't discount his lack of charisma. Constantly evading questions and making excuses sickens everyone in short order. It make you feel like "if he can't acknowledge the problem, then there is no hope for him fixing it." I believe a combination of the above gives him a much shorter leash than usual.

I, for one, was sickened by his hire, and he can't leave soon enough for me.

See, this is PRECISELY what I'm talking about.

Where does the factual end and the mythical begin?

This statement is downright LAUGHABLE:

He actually answers reporters questions rather than deny the obvious.

Vermeil was the MASTER of coach-speak.

Reerun_KC
12-12-2006, 02:39 PM
See, this is PRECISELY what I'm talking about.

Where does the factual end and the mythical begin?

This statement is downright LAUGHABLE:

He actually answers reporters questions rather than deny the obvious.

Vermeil was the MASTER of coach-speak.


Factual ended with the coach with superbowl win and ring.. Mythical begin with the new coach with out those accomplishments.

Easy 6
12-12-2006, 02:47 PM
I've been over DV for a couple of years.

But it's quite simple: Herm is not getting the same benefit of the doubt DV did.


BINGO was his name-o.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-12-2006, 04:36 PM
I don't want Herm to fail here, but when he fails as he's failed the last two games for the same reasons that all of his detractors predicted that he would fail, it's a might bit terrifying in the eyes of a passionate fan.

One of the reasons I'm so down on Herm is that his hiring is a 3 year train wreck played out in slow motion. I already know what's going to happen here, and in their heart of hearts, I think most people here know what's going to happen with Herm's tenure.

Reerun_KC
12-12-2006, 04:43 PM
I don't want Herm to fail here, but when he fails as he's failed the last two games for the same reasons that all of his detractors predicted that he would fail, it's a might bit terrifying in the eyes of a passionate fan.

One of the reasons I'm so down on Herm is that his hiring is a 3 year train wreck played out in slow motion. I already know what's going to happen here, and in their heart of hearts, I think most people here know what's going to happen with Herm's tenure.


I am sure we will get to the playoffs at least once, maybe twice, But Herm doesnt have the abilities to coach a team further than the divisional game, let alone the AFC championship or SuperBowl.

If he did, he would of taken at least one of those Jets teams that everyone so quickly refers to in debates here to at least the AFC Championship....

It is almost as a dark cloud is hovering over Arrowhead ever since Herm was hired....

It just doenst feel right as a fan. You can almost see the demise unfolding infront of your eyes.