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View Full Version : Draft talk ? Too early ?


ROYC75
12-18-2006, 10:29 AM
Hardly not ...........

Pipe dream ....... Thomas, OT Wisconsin.


What do we pick in Rd # 1 ?

IMHO, we should go with .......
1 - OT
2 - DT
3 - CB

After that whatever is the best athlete available.

Mecca
12-18-2006, 10:30 AM
You can't do that.........we have holes everywhere we should just be taking the best player available in every round.

JimNasium
12-18-2006, 10:36 AM
You can't do that.........we have holes everywhere we should just be taking the best player available in every round.
I agree. Drafting to fill holes has had mixed results at best.

ArrowheadHawk
12-18-2006, 10:41 AM
just take the best lineman available

ROYC75
12-18-2006, 10:42 AM
But Carl always does it this way......... I agree, we should take a maximun talented player, but what if that position is already anchored down.... ref: Kris Wilson - Tony Gonzales ......

FTR, So far, last year draft has looked good.

NY CHIEF
12-18-2006, 10:45 AM
1 OT, 2 DT 3 OT nothing less after last night, :banghead:

alanm
12-18-2006, 10:55 AM
I've always been of the opinion to take the best player available regardless of position.

Woodrow Call
12-18-2006, 10:55 AM
You can't do that.........we have holes everywhere we should just be taking the best player available in every round.

That is 100% correct. Outside of RB and TE every position is a position of need IMO.

ROYC75
12-18-2006, 10:59 AM
I've always been of the opinion to take the best player available regardless of position.

This is the best way and fill in with FA's.

But we know CP doesn't work that way. How many times have we seen CP draft position over talent ?

bkkcoh
12-18-2006, 10:59 AM
That is 100% correct. Outside of RB and TE every position is a position of need IMO.

TE is an assumption that Tony is coming back. Even though he has voided his contract, what are the chances that the Chiefs will be able to keep him without holding out for an extended period of time.....

That could unfortunately become an ugly situation.

Tribal Warfare
12-18-2006, 10:59 AM
1) Baker/Jarrett/Okoye the best available BPA

2) FB Brian Leonard

Hal McRae
01-13-2007, 05:52 PM
Chiefs are also affected at OT, because top juniors Jake Long and Sam Baker decided to stay in school.

suds79
01-13-2007, 11:26 PM
1) Baker/Jarrett/Okoye the best available BPA

2) FB Brian Leonard

Gotta admit. I don't like the idea of drafting a FB in round 2. I don't like the idea of drafting a FB above round 5.

It's just not an impact position.

Besides. What exactly has Chris Wilson done to make people wanting him replaced?

He's blocked pretty well for Larry and IMO we won't find another FB out there with better pass catching skills and speed.

Extra Point
01-14-2007, 11:27 AM
Gotta admit. I don't like the idea of drafting a FB in round 2. I don't like the idea of drafting a FB above round 5.

It's just not an impact position.

Besides. What exactly has Chris Wilson done to make people wanting him replaced?

He's blocked pretty well for Larry and IMO we won't find another FB out there with better pass catching skills and speed.

Agreed.

Tribal Warfare
01-14-2007, 01:05 PM
Gotta admit. I don't like the idea of drafting a FB in round 2. I don't like the idea of drafting a FB above round 5.

It's just not an impact position.

Besides. What exactly has Chris Wilson done to make people wanting him replaced?

He's blocked pretty well for Larry and IMO we won't find another FB out there with better pass catching skills and speed.


Leonard is an impact player

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-14-2007, 03:39 PM
You don't draft FB's and you don't draft Kickers.

Tribal Warfare
01-14-2007, 04:28 PM
You don't draft FB's and you don't draft Kickers.


Bullshit!!!!!!! BPA always

suds79
01-14-2007, 10:51 PM
Leonard is an impact player

Well if he is a special player, then I hope he gets moved to HB on the next level because it won't happen at the FB position.

Have you ever known a team to have a superstar FB? I sure haven't.

It's just not an impact position mostly because they're not on the field.

Now if this guy can play HB, maybe. But that's not really a need for us at this point. At least not in the first day.

Furthermore, IMO a championship team can't afford to be spending decent money on a FB. That's why it's good to pick them up at undrafted free agents.

Tribal Warfare
01-14-2007, 10:57 PM
Well if he is a special player, then I hope he gets moved to HB on the next level because it won't happen at the FB position.

Have you ever known a team to have a superstar FB? I sure haven't.

It's just not an impact position mostly because they're not on the field.

Now if this guy can play HB, maybe. But that's not really a need for us at this point. At least not in the first day.

Furthermore, IMO a championship team can't afford to be spending decent money on a FB. That's why it's good to pick them up at undrafted free agents.


the kid runs like Terrell Davis but plays FB, personally I love to get the best players on the field. If a team has options like that then who gives a shit what the player's position is great players are difference makers.

Hamas, since the playoffs are going into the conference championships do still believe Kickers aren't football players?

milkman
01-14-2007, 11:10 PM
the kid runs like Terrell Davis but plays FB, personally I love to get the best players on the field. If a team has options like that then who gives a shit what the player's position is great players are difference makers.

Hamas, since the playoffs are going into the conference championships do still believe Kickers aren't football players?

The Chargers drafted Kaeding, and what has it gotten them?

He's missed two clutch kicks in the playoffs.
Granted, neither were of the chip shot variety, but you can find guys in the FA market that can hit chip shots.

Tribal Warfare
01-15-2007, 12:49 AM
The Chargers drafted Kaeding, and what has it gotten them?

He's missed two clutch kicks in the playoffs.
Granted, neither were of the chip shot variety, but you can find guys in the FA market that can hit chip shots.


look at Colquit concerning his success, and this arguement would be a mute point

htismaqe
01-15-2007, 07:28 AM
the kid runs like Terrell Davis but plays FB, personally I love to get the best players on the field. If a team has options like that then who gives a shit what the player's position is great players are difference makers.

Hamas, since the playoffs are going into the conference championships do still believe Kickers aren't football players?

To be a game changer, at any position, two things are required:

1) You have to have the talent.

2) You have to GET ON THE FIELD.

As a FB, Leonard won't see the field with any regularity and thus his contribution will be minimized. I'll be anxious to see how his workouts go, if he can consistently show he can catch the ball, he'd be an ideal H-back and that would allow teams to get him on the field more.

htismaqe
01-15-2007, 07:28 AM
The Chargers drafted Kaeding, and what has it gotten them?

He's missed two clutch kicks in the playoffs.
Granted, neither were of the chip shot variety, but you can find guys in the FA market that can hit chip shots.

Exactly.

Tribal Warfare
01-15-2007, 08:54 AM
To be a game changer, at any position, two things are required:

1) You have to have the talent.

2) You have to GET ON THE FIELD.

As a FB, Leonard won't see the field with any regularity and thus his contribution will be minimized. I'll be anxious to see how his workouts go, if he can consistently show he can catch the ball, he'd be an ideal H-back and that would allow teams to get him on the field more.


have you seen Leonard play?

Tribal Warfare
01-15-2007, 08:56 AM
The Chargers drafted Kaeding, and what has it gotten them?

He's missed two clutch kicks in the playoffs.
Granted, neither were of the chip shot variety, but you can find guys in the FA market that can hit chip shots.


I doesn't matter if the BPA is a all-world kicker then pick him, because of the value. I like said look at Colquitt , you would rather have him or a practice squad scrub?

htismaqe
01-15-2007, 09:50 AM
I doesn't matter if the BPA is a all-world kicker then pick him, because of the value. I like said look at Colquitt , you would rather have him or a practice squad scrub?

We took Colquitt towards the end of the THIRD. Kaeding was taken in the 2nd. There's a HUGE difference.

htismaqe
01-15-2007, 09:52 AM
have you seen Leonard play?

I most certainly have. And unless he's gonna change positions, he's gonna be marginalized in the NFL just like he was his senior season in college.

I'm not saying he's not a good player, but it's just a fact that fullbacks don't see the field enough to warrant a 1st day pick. Personally, if we're gonna draft a guy like this (and I'm not opposed) I'd like to see him play a similar role to Chris Cooley...

Tribal Warfare
01-15-2007, 10:09 AM
We took Colquitt towards the end of the THIRD. Kaeding was taken in the 2nd. There's a HUGE difference.





No it isn't, We took the BPA and that's my point

htismaqe
01-15-2007, 10:43 AM
No it isn't, We took the BPA and that's my point

You have to balance the value of the player's position you're picking with the value of the pick you're using.

Using a 3rd on a punter is FAR different than using a 2nd on a punter.

Tribal Warfare
01-15-2007, 10:46 AM
You have to balance the value of the player's position you're picking with the value of the pick you're using.

Using a 3rd on a punter is FAR different than using a 2nd on a punter.


the arguement is if a kicker or BPA in general is available then grab him instead of reaching for a "need"

suds79
01-15-2007, 12:38 PM
It seems we have two different arguements going on here.

BPA (which I agree with within reason)

and

Drafting FBs (which I don't agree with and comes 1st in priority)

If this kid is going to change positions, then lets consider him in the 2nd round if he's the BPA.

If he's staying at FB, then he'd better fall to the 6th round or lower.

Otherwise, no deal.

Can't afford to have decent money tied up in a FB. No matter how good he is.

htismaqe
01-15-2007, 12:55 PM
the arguement is if a kicker or BPA in general is available then grab him instead of reaching for a "need"

A kicker is NEVER going to be the BPA in the 1st or 2nd round, due to the fact that they're not a full-time player.

Tribal Warfare
01-15-2007, 01:21 PM
A kicker is NEVER going to be the BPA in the 1st or 2nd round, due to the fact that they're not a full-time player.


apparently you are not getting me. I repeat I'm all for getting the BPA at any position in the draft nomatter the damn round. If a kicker is the BPA then we did our job, because that's the point of the draft getting the best out their. If they can make a significant impact on the team then they are the BPA

htismaqe
01-15-2007, 01:35 PM
apparently you are not getting me. I repeat I'm all for getting the BPA at any position in the draft nomatter the damn round. If a kicker is the BPA then we did our job, because that's the point of the draft getting the best out their. If they can make a significant impact on the team then they are the BPA

And I'm saying that FB's, K's, and other "part time" players should NEVER be the BPA in the first 2 rounds, and even the 3rd round is questionable. Even if they're the most-talented player in the draft, they're never going to make a "significant impact" if they're sitting on the bench...

Tribal Warfare
01-15-2007, 02:15 PM
And I'm saying that FB's, K's, and other "part time" players should NEVER be the BPA in the first 2 rounds, and even the 3rd round is questionable. Even if they're the most-talented player in the draft, they're never going to make a "significant impact" if they're sitting on the bench...


"part time" with Kickers LMAO ( I guess you haven't been watching the playoffs) those guys make or break the game for the team. I guess you really haven't seen Leonard play, because he isn't a "part-time" player. Hell, Jerome Bettis played FB at Notre Dame

htismaqe
01-15-2007, 07:21 PM
"part time" with Kickers LMAO ( I guess you haven't been watching the playoffs) those guys make or break the game for the team. I guess you really haven't seen Leonard play, because he isn't a "part-time" player. Hell, Jerome Bettis played FB at Notre Dame

Where was Adam Vinatieri drafted? How about Robbie Gould? Exactly. The only 1st-day kicker in the playoffs was Nate Kaeding, and for the second time he missed a key FG at the end of the game.

Jerome Bettis played FB at Notre Dame but projected to HB at the NFL level. Leonard doesn't. Most offenses call for a FB roughly 40% of the time or less, including ours. He can't make plays from the bench. It's just a simple fact.

Bill Parcells
01-15-2007, 08:09 PM
And I'm saying that FB's, K's, and other "part time" players should NEVER be the BPA in the first 2 rounds, and even the 3rd round is questionable. Even if they're the most-talented player in the draft, they're never going to make a "significant impact" if they're sitting on the bench...
:eek: I can't believe I am actually agreeing with you :eek:..but..I agree..kickers should be taken in the later rounds..Mike Nugent was great this year..but not worth a 2nd round pick..

Tribal Warfare
01-15-2007, 09:13 PM
Where was Adam Vinatieri drafted? How about Robbie Gould? Exactly. The only 1st-day kicker in the playoffs was Nate Kaeding, and for the second time he missed a key FG at the end of the game.

Jerome Bettis played FB at Notre Dame but projected to HB at the NFL level. Leonard doesn't.




Dustin Colquitt???????? I want talent on the team at any damn position on the field if that means drafting the next Jan Stenerud I'll pull the trigger. I've seen Leonard run the ball and the kids a wild man with instincts, and the Senior Bowl will prove that.

suds79
01-15-2007, 10:12 PM
I've seen Leonard run the ball and the kids a wild man with instincts, and the Senior Bowl will prove that.

Okay so you see him as a HB then.

If he's the man at HB, then I'm with you as far as drafting him if he's the BPA.

htismaqe
01-16-2007, 09:08 AM
Dustin Colquitt???????? I want talent on the team at any damn position on the field if that means drafting the next Jan Stenerud I'll pull the trigger. I've seen Leonard run the ball and the kids a wild man with instincts, and the Senior Bowl will prove that.

Dustin Colquitt was taken at the end of the third round. How many times do I have to say it?

And I've seen Leonard run the ball too. Tim Dwight is a wild man with instincts, that doesn't make him an every-down NFL player.

Brian Leonard will come as close to being an NFL HB as Mike Alstott did...

ct
01-16-2007, 10:20 AM
My wish list, in order:

1 - OT Levi Brown (fallbacks DT, WR, OLB)
2 - DT DeMarcus Tyler, just have a feeling he's gonna slide. (fallbacks OT if we didn't get one in 1st, then WR, OLB, CB...in otherwords BAA after OT).
3 - BAA WR, OLB, CB, OG/C, another DT, DE. Geez we got a lot of needs...

Tribal Warfare
01-16-2007, 10:07 PM
Dustin Colquitt was taken at the end of the third round. How many times do I have to say it?

And I've seen Leonard run the ball too. Tim Dwight is a wild man with instincts, that doesn't make him an every-down NFL player.

Brian Leonard will come as close to being an NFL HB as Mike Alstott did...


Yeah, and how many times do have to say it nomatter the position draft BPA. Guess what KC did.


Leonard plays nothing like Alstott if anybody it would be Kimble Anders.

I want impact players on the team at every damn position!! Why is that hard to figure out

htismaqe
01-17-2007, 02:08 PM
Yeah, and how many times do have to say it nomatter the position draft BPA. Guess what KC did.


Leonard plays nothing like Alstott if anybody it would be Kimble Anders.

I want impact players on the team at every damn position!! Why is that hard to figure out

You can repeat yourself as many times as you want, a fullback that won't even be on the field half the time is NOT a complete impact player. It's not physically possible when his ass is on the bench.

Where was Kimble Anders drafted?

It's not hard to figure out. I have no problem drafting a guy like Brian Leonard - on the 2nd day of the draft...

Tribal Warfare
01-17-2007, 02:31 PM
You can repeat yourself as many times as you want, a fullback that won't even be on the field half the time is NOT a complete impact player. It's not physically possible when his ass is on the bench.




Okay Herm wants more of simplified offense right?????? Well guess what welcome to I-Formation city. This year Leonard had a choice in either being a FB or HB he decided of course to play FB, because they another talented RB last name is rice. Last year if Leonard came out he would've been a sure fire 1st rounder



Kimble Anders was a pro-bowler right???????????????? So what he was a Rookie FA it's better knowing you have the talent already and drafting the BPA. Instead of some PS scrub.

htismaqe
01-17-2007, 02:41 PM
Okay Herm wants more of simplified offense right?????? Well guess what welcome to I-Formation city. This year Leonard had a choice in either being a FB or HB he decided of course to play FB, because they another talented RB last name is rice. Last year if Leonard came out he would've been a sure fire 1st rounder

Kimble Anders was a pro-bowler right???????????????? So what he was a Rookie FA it's better knowing you have the talent already and drafting the BPA. Instead of some PS scrub.

Kimble Anders was a pro-bowler, and picking him up as RFA allowed us to pick someone else with that pick.

I guarantee you that Herm's simplified offense will continue to use a ton of Ace formation, with 2 TE's, meaning that the FB will be sitting on the bench.

I'm not disputing that Leonard is a talented player. He wouldn't have been a first rounder, sorry. This year, he's a FB, it's not a premium position.

Tribal Warfare
01-17-2007, 02:44 PM
Kimble Anders was a pro-bowler, and picking him up as RFA allowed us to pick someone else with that pick.

I guarantee you that Herm's simplified offense will continue to use a ton of Ace formation, with 2 TE's, meaning that the FB will be sitting on the bench.

I'm not disputing that Leonard is a talented player. He wouldn't have been a first rounder, sorry. This year, he's a FB, it's not a premium position.


But the whole point is I want the BPAs, and if their damn good their asses will be on the field. I just don't your reasoning, because it confounds in not searching for the best talent available.

htismaqe
01-17-2007, 02:49 PM
But the whole point is I want the BPAs, and if their damn good their asses will be on the field. I just don't your reasoning, because it confounds in not searching for the best talent available.

Best player available = most talented player that can have an immediate impact on my team.

By the sheer fact that he's a fullback and could possibly participate in LESS THAN 50% of offensive plays, he's not BPA.

htismaqe
01-17-2007, 02:52 PM
I should amend my statement to say:

He can't possibly be BPA, due to his position, until late in the 3rd round or after. I might take a flyer on him late in the 3rd, like we did with Colquitt, but I'd never spend a 1st or a 2nd on a kicker or FB.

Tribal Warfare
01-17-2007, 02:55 PM
Best player available = most talented player that can have an immediate impact on my team.

By the sheer fact that he's a fullback and could possibly participate in LESS THAN 50% of offensive plays, he's not BPA.



LMAO, whateever man the kids gonna be a player squat and watch. the bowl game I saw him last year( 2005) he dominated. I was flipping through the channels then I saw this 230 kid ripping a new asshole into the opposition.

htismaqe
01-17-2007, 03:00 PM
LMAO, whateever man the kids gonna be a player squat and watch. the bowl game I saw him last year( 2005) he dominated. I was flipping through the channels then I saw this 230 kid ripping a new asshole into the opposition.

So you think he's going to play HB then? We'll see where he sits after the combine...

Tribal Warfare
01-17-2007, 03:03 PM
So you think he's going to play HB then? We'll see where he sits after the combine...


correct , like LJ he could slip

Tribal Warfare
01-17-2007, 03:07 PM
So you think he's going to play HB then? We'll see where he sits after the combine...


http://www.footballsfuture.com/2007/prospects/brian_leonard.html

htismaqe
01-17-2007, 03:09 PM
correct , like LJ he could slip

You do realize that Leonard's 40 time is almost a HALF SECOND slower than LJ's was, right?

Tribal Warfare
01-17-2007, 03:12 PM
You do realize that Leonard's 40 time is almost a HALF SECOND slower than LJ's was, right?


and more than a tenth faster than Shawne Alexander's combine results

htismaqe
01-17-2007, 03:20 PM
and more than a tenth faster than Shawne Alexander's combine results

Like I said, we'll see after the combine.

If teams consider him a HB prospect, he might go higher. If teams consider him a FB prospect, he'll likely go late 3rd or after...

Tribal Warfare
01-17-2007, 03:22 PM
Like I said, we'll see after the combine.

If teams consider him a HB prospect, he might go higher. If teams consider him a FB prospect, he'll likely go late 3rd or after...


Now do you see my point about the BPA?

htismaqe
01-17-2007, 03:26 PM
Now do you see my point about the BPA?

I've always seen your point about BPA. I actually agree with you on it.

I just don't agree with you specifically on Leonard.

I think he's a FB at the next level, and as such, extenuating circumstances (ie. the sheer number of plays a FB participates in) decrease his value.

htismaqe
01-17-2007, 03:35 PM
By the way, if Leonard does project out to HB instead of FB, that would actually decrease his value TO THE CHIEFS. HB is one of the few spots where we should absolutely not draft anyone if at all possible...

redsurfer11
01-18-2007, 01:51 PM
To be a game changer, at any position, two things are required:

1) You have to have the talent.

2) You have to GET ON THE FIELD.

As a FB, Leonard won't see the field with any regularity and thus his contribution will be minimized. I'll be anxious to see how his workouts go, if he can consistently show he can catch the ball, he'd be an ideal H-back and that would allow teams to get him on the field more.

Leonard would play the entire game, his blocking, receiving and running skills all rate an A+. He would take carries away from LJ, maybe 6-8 per game, plus his blocking skills, would extend LJ's career for a few years. Leonard reminds Tribal of a Terrel Davis, to me he is John Riggins with better receiving skills.

htismaqe
01-18-2007, 02:22 PM
Leonard would play the entire game, his blocking, receiving and running skills all rate an A+. He would take carries away from LJ, maybe 6-8 per game, plus his blocking skills, would extend LJ's career for a few years. Leonard reminds Tribal of a Terrel Davis, to me he is John Riggins with better receiving skills.

That was my original point. If he can demonstrate those skills at the combine and CONVINCE teams that he's an H-back rather than a straight FB, he'll go higher.

redsurfer11
01-19-2007, 12:02 AM
That was my original point. If he can demonstrate those skills at the combine and CONVINCE teams that he's an H-back rather than a straight FB, he'll go higher.

Don't think he'll be still on the board when we pick in the 2nd round, he'd be a perfect fit for the Redskins or the Steelers. I'd love to see him still on the board when the Chiefs pick, this guy is the ultimate team player. Chiefs fans would go nuts over his playing ability and heart. He improves the team just by walking on the field. Show me a Chiefs draft pick from the 2nd round that can do this as a rookie.

redsurfer11
01-19-2007, 12:04 AM
So you think he's going to play HB then? We'll see where he sits after the combine...

You'll get to see him at the Senior Bowl.

htismaqe
01-21-2007, 07:35 PM
You'll get to see him at the Senior Bowl.

I've seen him play several times.

htismaqe
01-21-2007, 07:38 PM
Don't think he'll be still on the board when we pick in the 2nd round, he'd be a perfect fit for the Redskins or the Steelers. I'd love to see him still on the board when the Chiefs pick, this guy is the ultimate team player. Chiefs fans would go nuts over his playing ability and heart. He improves the team just by walking on the field. Show me a Chiefs draft pick from the 2nd round that can do this as a rookie.

I can guarantee you if he were the Chiefs draft pick, he wouldn't do shit. HB is the one position where we're loaded and we just don't use a true FB enough. Again, if he can play H-back (and I think that's the best fit for him) it's going to open alot of doors he wouldn't have had open if he were a straight FB.

Like you said, he's a perfect fit for an offense like Gibbs' (the Steelers' offense could change with Tomlin coming in). Unfortunately, he just wouldn't see the field here - we're gonna run LJ into the ground.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 08:17 PM
Don't think he'll be still on the board when we pick in the 2nd round, he'd be a perfect fit for the Redskins or the Steelers. I'd love to see him still on the board when the Chiefs pick, this guy is the ultimate team player. Chiefs fans would go nuts over his playing ability and heart. He improves the team just by walking on the field. Show me a Chiefs draft pick from the 2nd round that can do this as a rookie.

So despite the fact that the Redskins have Portis, 11 Million invested in his backup, and Chris Cooley, he'd be perfect for their system?