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MOhillbilly
12-27-2006, 10:38 AM
Foes have success against Cover-2

By NICK HUT - nhut@nwherald.com (nhut@nwherald.com)

Washington Redskins defensive coordinator Gregg Williams thinks offenses have begun to solve the Cover-2 defense.

Williams believes that issue is at the core of his group’s failings this season, and that trend also might be starting to catch up to the Bears.

Coach Lovie Smith’s defense, which relies on the Cover-2 as a staple, has given up 28 points to St. Louis, 31 to Tampa Bay and 21 to Detroit the last three weeks.

Those numbers are a substantial drop-off for a team that had allowed an average of 12.5 points a game before that three-week span.

The issue has not cost the Bears in the standings.

As the players relaxed at home on Christmas Day, they could kick back and enjoy their 13-2 record and No. 1 seed for the NFC playoffs.

But the defense is not what it was earlier in the season, and the question is why.

The Bears point to the personnel adjustments they have had to make after losing Tommie Harris for the season to a hamstring injury and fellow defensive tackle Tank Johnson for the previous two weeks because of off-the-field trouble.

The secondary played without either Nathan Vasher or Charles Tillman in each of the last three games. Strong safety Mike Brown is out for the season with a foot injury.

“Once we get guys back, I think we’ll be right on track,” Vasher said.

If something more fundamental is at work, the Bears’ playoff experience could be rockier than they probably expect.

The Cover-2 relies on the front four generating a strong pass rush, allowing seven defenders to drop back in coverage and keep plays in front of them. The Redskins’ Williams recently spoke to the Washington Post about his perception that offenses have found a vulnerability in the Cover-2, specifically in the deep middle of the field.

“Those are things we’re going to have to address,” he said. “That will be one of our projects in the off-season.”

The Bears might be less susceptible than many teams in the deep middle because they have Brian Urlacher, who is more capable than most middle linebackers of covering tight ends or even slot receivers.

Still, St. Louis beat Urlacher over the middle on a long pass to Kevin Curtis, setting up a touchdown early in the Bears’ Dec. 11 victory. Detroit quarterback Jon Kitna likewise had success in exploiting holes in the Cover-2 zone Sunday at Ford Field, completing three passes of more than 20 yards.

If not for a combined five drops by Roy Williams and Mike Williams, the Lions would have had more than their 283 passing yards. And that came against a defense that had been allowing only 153 passing yards a game before December.

“They’ve given up some big plays, which is uncharacteristic for them, but our defense is unbelievable,” quarterback Rex Grossman said.

The defense expects to prove that when the games start to matter again, and the Cover-2 certainly will remain a big part of the plans.

“I think there are some things we do need to work on,” defensive coordinator Ron Rivera said. “But I will say this – the mentality, the attitude, the way it goes in the playoffs is completely different from the mentality right now. I don’t want to say you’re playing for nothing, but we are 13-2 right now.”

Easy 6
12-27-2006, 12:24 PM
I still believe the 2 can work, even HOF coaches can only do so much and all schemes whether O or D can be exposed without the right players, it happens to good NFL coaches every year.

:arrow: is a top DT, and an improved Page & Pollard or Page & somebody at the S's away from being able to run this D well IMO. 2 or 3 guy's & then shrewdly pad the depth chart. 1 more strong draft/FA period could do it.

Both Carl & Herm have GOTTA be feelin' the heat, heres to hoping they can pull another strong off- season outta their azz's.

We will know a LOT more about these guys 2 or 3 games into 07.

I'll be there.

Mecca
12-27-2006, 12:28 PM
Basically all that says is you need premier players all over the field to make it work.....sounds like a Gunther defense.

CoMoChief
12-27-2006, 12:29 PM
I wish we had the people to run a 3-4.

tk13
12-27-2006, 12:29 PM
The Bears were doing fine up until they got hurt. I think losing Harris and all those secondary injuries have caught up to them... most of their starting DB's are great around the ball.

Count Zarth
12-27-2006, 12:31 PM
I think that's garbage, personally. Of course there are plays that will beat a cover 2. No defense is perfect. No offensive play is perfect either and there is a defensive call out there that will defend it perfectly if executed...of course, if you can't get to the quarterback, you're ****ed anyway 9 times out of 10.

Count Zarth
12-27-2006, 12:32 PM
I wish we had the people to run a 3-4.

Why? It's not a magic bullet.

Mecca
12-27-2006, 12:32 PM
I'd like to hear a team that runs a cover 2 successfully with marginal talent......

Count Zarth
12-27-2006, 12:33 PM
I'd like to hear a team that runs a cover 2 successfully with marginal talent......

Define "successfully."

tk13
12-27-2006, 12:34 PM
I'd like to hear a team that runs a cover 2 successfully with marginal talent......
I'd like to see a defense that is successful with marginal talent.

Mecca
12-27-2006, 12:34 PM
Define "successfully."

The only teams that have successfully run it.......are Tampa who has had premier talent, the Bears who have premier talent......and due to record the Colts and we all know that has nothing to do with their defense....

The cover 2 scheme is great if you have exceptional talent, if you don't you're gonna get burned.

ZootedGranny
12-27-2006, 12:34 PM
The Cover 2 works just as intended when the proper pressure is generated up front and the safeties get correct depth.

It's not mere coincidence that the Bears defense started to nosedive when their best defensive lineman went out, and that the Chiefs have had great games defending the pass when the d-line has been all over the QB.

Count Zarth
12-27-2006, 12:35 PM
The only teams that have successfully run it.......are Tampa who has had premier talent, the Bears who have premier talent......and due to record the Colts and we all know that has nothing to do with their defense....

The cover 2 scheme is great if you have exceptional talent, if you don't you're gonna get burned.

Define "successfully."

Mecca
12-27-2006, 12:36 PM
I'd like to see a defense that is successful with marginal talent.

Cover 2 basically calls for.....4 Pro Lineman, extremely talented LB's and Safeties, the only position it takes some load away from is corner.

tk13
12-27-2006, 12:38 PM
Cover 2 basically calls for.....4 Pro Lineman, extremely talented LB's and Safeties, the only position it takes some load away from is corner.
And what Super Bowl defense didn't have a lot of talent?

Mecca
12-27-2006, 12:42 PM
And what Super Bowl defense didn't have a lot of talent?

Alright then a good portion of the defense should still be replaced......

Easy 6
12-27-2006, 01:01 PM
I'd like to hear a team that runs a cover 2 successfully with marginal talent......

It DOESNT take PREMIER talent at all positions to make the 2 work. Tampa was built on Rice, Sapp, Brooks, Lynch & Barber. 5 guys, thats it. Followed by solid complementary players that fit the scheme.

We have Jared, Tamba, DJ, a swiftly improving Page/Pollard, 2 CB's who i believe had simultaneous off years atleast somewhat explained by average to poor play from key teammates.

1 more solid off-season could have :arrow: lookin' tight. You are COMPLETELY dismissing the talent already in place here.

Chiefs Pantalones
12-27-2006, 01:03 PM
No matter if it's a cover 2, cover 3, cover 30, cover 80, cover 200000, it all comes down to getting after the QB, and the Bears haven't done that consistently as of late with those key injuries up front.

Mecca
12-27-2006, 01:25 PM
It DOESNT take PREMIER talent at all positions to make the 2 work. Tampa was built on Rice, Sapp, Brooks, Lynch & Barber. 5 guys, thats it. Followed by solid complementary players that fit the scheme.

We have Jared, Tamba, DJ, a swiftly improving Page/Pollard, 2 CB's who i believe had simultaneous off years atleast somewhat explained by average to poor play from key teammates.

1 more solid off-season could have :arrow: lookin' tight. You are COMPLETELY dismissing the talent already in place here.

Our talent isn't anything compared to those 5 players from Tampa you mentioned.....at their peaks those guys were in the tops of the league at their positions.

dirk digler
12-27-2006, 01:28 PM
Put in Pollard and Page, replace Bell and Mitchell with somebody better and get at least 1 stud DT and we are set. :D

KC-TBB
12-27-2006, 01:42 PM
And at least 1 guy in the middle that can push his way inside...

Easy 6
12-27-2006, 01:45 PM
Our talent isn't anything compared to those 5 players from Tampa you mentioned.....at their peaks those guys were in the tops of the league at their positions.

My $$$ says that Jared & Tamba together are more than a match big play wise for Rice & there is yet more growing that both can do. KEEP F'N DOUBTING THE TAMBA2!!!

We will be seeking out our Sapp.

DJ ABSOLUTELY CAN be mentioned in the same breath as Brooks & again he will only improve.

Page has shown EVERY sign of being a heady, ballhawking PLAYMAKER & Pollard has as well, just not specifically as a S. But he IS a playmaker.

My $$$ also says Law & Surtain have stronger 07.

Throw in a good off-season & there is NO reason not to be optimistic.

Mr. Laz
12-27-2006, 01:47 PM
losing Tommie Harris for the season to a hamstring injury and fellow defensive tackle Tank Johnson for the previous two weeks because of off-the-field trouble.

The secondary played without either Nathan Vasher or Charles Tillman in each of the last three games. Strong safety Mike Brown is out for the season with a foot injury.
the bears defense lost it's edge when it lost 2 defensive tackles and a safety.

:hmmm:


sound familiar?


you upgrade our defense with 2 defensive tackles and a 1 safety and we would be much better too.

FringeNC
12-27-2006, 02:04 PM
If you can get a great push with your front four, it doesn't matter too much what scheme you play. If you can't get a good push, you have to rely on creating confusion for the quarterback. Change up coverages, fake blitz, disguise blitzes, etc. Just dropping back into a soft zone cover-2 is disastrous. See Indy this year, or us under Greg Robinson.

jidar
12-27-2006, 02:04 PM
I'd like to hear a team that runs a cover 2 successfully with marginal talent......


What the **** is this shit? What does this even mean?

Watch this:


I'd like to hear a team that runs a 4-3 successfully with marginal talent.
I'd like to hear a team that runs a 46 successfully with marginal talent.
I'd like to hear a team that runs a west coast offense successfully with marginal talent.
I'd like to hear a team that runs a air coryell offense successfully with marginal talent.
I'd like to hear a team that runs a defense successfully with marginal talent.
I'd like to hear a team that runs a titty bar successfully with marginal talent.
I'd like to hear a team that runs a train on Meccas mom successfully with marginal talent.

Okay maybe that last one happens. The rest though just shows how stupid of a statement your post was.

Reerun_KC
12-27-2006, 02:06 PM
What the **** is this shit? What does this even mean?

Watch this:


I'd like to hear a team that runs a 4-3 successfully with marginal talent.
I'd like to hear a team that runs a 46 successfully with marginal talent.
I'd like to hear a team that runs a west coast offense successfully with marginal talent.
I'd like to hear a team that runs a air coryell offense successfully with marginal talent.
I'd like to hear a team that runs a defense successfully with marginal talent.
I'd like to hear a team that runs a titty bar successfully with marginal talent.
I'd like to hear a team that runs a train on Meccas mom successfully with marginal talent.

Okay maybe that last one happens. The rest though just shows how stupid of a statement your post was.

I'd like to hear a Organization that runs a with a GM who successfully signs marginal talent and is still GM 18 years later.

Easy 6
12-27-2006, 02:13 PM
I'd like to hear a Organization that runs a with a GM who successfully signs marginal talent and is still GM 18 years later.

You would find a way to bitch about management in f#cking music thread.

The Logical of late looks like friggin KCJohnny compared to you & Mecca.

Nope, theres no good talent here, its just frickin Mother Hubbard... :shake:

There are legit beefs with Carl no doubt, but is that ALL you ever talk about???

Mecca
12-27-2006, 02:42 PM
What the **** is this shit? What does this even mean?

Watch this:


I'd like to hear a team that runs a 4-3 successfully with marginal talent.
I'd like to hear a team that runs a 46 successfully with marginal talent.
I'd like to hear a team that runs a west coast offense successfully with marginal talent.
I'd like to hear a team that runs a air coryell offense successfully with marginal talent.
I'd like to hear a team that runs a defense successfully with marginal talent.
I'd like to hear a team that runs a titty bar successfully with marginal talent.
I'd like to hear a team that runs a train on Meccas mom successfully with marginal talent.

Okay maybe that last one happens. The rest though just shows how stupid of a statement your post was.

What a well thought out response.......the point was the Cover 2 requires more elite players than other defenses do, and specifically at positions that it's very difficult to have that in the Dline...the Colts have been trying to do this for 5 years now and they still aren't close.

For the other comment...if Allen and Hali even become half of what Rice was in his peak we should be thrilled.

kcfanXIII
12-27-2006, 03:01 PM
this defense will improve the moment page and pollard become the starting safties. speed at safeties is essential to the cover 2. plus, stacking 8 on the LOS, dropping some, blitzing others, every once in a while would cause more confusion for the qb.

crazycoffey
12-27-2006, 03:07 PM
No matter if it's a cover 2, cover 3, cover 30, cover 80, cover 200000, it all comes down to getting after the QB, and the Bears haven't done that consistently as of late with those key injuries up front.

that's right, it's based on safe play in the secondary while the line gets the QB, quickly.
I also thought the cover two was more for teams without good CB play.

not that law and surtain are awesome, but they are being paid alot of money, let them earn it, put them on an island man on man and send a few more blitz packages

let Gun be Gun

kcfanXIII
12-27-2006, 03:08 PM
ya, i wish they'd mix it up, instead of a base cover 2 every play.

Calcountry
12-27-2006, 03:58 PM
Clark Hunt should Fire Carl and Hire Mecca immediately. He is the only one who can properly evaluate talent.

Skip Towne
12-27-2006, 04:04 PM
Clark Hunt should Fire Carl and Hire Mecca immediately. He is the only one who can properly evaluate talent.
Mecca said he would only accept if he is allowed to bring along Hootie as his assistant. He is the real "brains" of the outfit.

Coogs
12-27-2006, 04:53 PM
let Gun be Gun

And what exactly has he done over the last 10 or 11 years that has stood out other than blitz Todd Collins, then of the Bills, successfully on 4 consecutive downs back in the mid-90's. I'm not sure if I have ever seen a guy get more mileage out of 4 plays than this joker has.