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View Full Version : Do you guys agree with this whole offensive philosophy we have?


RedThat
12-28-2006, 01:43 PM
I mean, I like Larry Johnson, but I don't agree with constantly running the ball.

I know we're putting the ball in the hands of our best player, but, I don't think it's smart because LJ will wear down fast. sooner than later imo. All this is doing is shortening his career. Id like to see some longevity with the man because he is a great football player. Im just not sure if that can happen? Given the pace he is going at right now. He is only 28 carries away from tying the all time record for most carries in a season set by Jamal Anderson in 1998, 410 carries.

We all know what happened to that guy after?

I just dont like this whole run, run, run the ball mentality...control the clock type of offense. It's smart in a way because it gives the team a lesser chance to come back, but come on? they cant keep giving LJ 28 to 30 carries a game. Id like to at least see Bennett get some more carries, or even Dee Brown...Or pass a little more? I dont know...It can just can backfire on us...but not only that, it makes our offense more predictable, more conservative because we're just being plain and not opening things up...This is a BIG reason why we've dropped considerably on offense.

Mecca
12-28-2006, 01:44 PM
It's not very smart to give 1 player that many carries......atleast when Atlanta and Denver did it they made/won a Superbowl. We didn't even get playoffs out of it.

TN_Chief
12-28-2006, 01:46 PM
IMO the team has become entirely too one-dimensional. Too much run, not nearly enough (successful) passing. Regardless of the reason.

I don't think LJ has been as effective this year (despite the good numbers) because teams have realized they don't have to worry about the passing game the way they used to.

Stewie
12-28-2006, 01:46 PM
With Herm as head coach we all need to get used to it. His mantra is: ruuuuuunnnnnnn....

TN_Chief
12-28-2006, 01:50 PM
I'm not ready to get used to losing Stewie...so I refuse to get used to Herm's philosophy. Herm has, IMO, always been one-dimensional, and defenses are usually able to load up against one-dimensional teams and beat 'em. Yet another reason I think Herm should be replaced if at all possible.

RedThat
12-28-2006, 01:51 PM
IMO the team has become entirely too one-dimensional. Too much run, not nearly enough (successful) passing. Regardless of the reason.

I don't think LJ has been as effective this year (despite the good numbers) because teams have realized they don't have to worry about the passing game the way they used to.

I noticed something this year, teams knew we were gonna pound and run the ball like crazy. That was evident when Trent Green went down.

Because when Huard came in, teams STACKED the line against us, and LJ wasn't as effective. But when we called for Huard to pass, it opened things up for him, and thats part of the reason why I think he had a good year because teams were forcing themselves to stop LJ, thus opening up the passing game. When Huard was effective, the running game opened up. Teams respected the pass, and that opened up our running game. It just goes to show that both the run and pass compliment each other. both can't be effective without each other.

Deberg_1990
12-28-2006, 01:53 PM
Its not a bad philosphy at all. It wins games. The problem is, the defense still is not consistant enough yet to stop teams on critical downs and points in the ballgame.


I Agree that LJ needs more rest though.

Stewie
12-28-2006, 01:56 PM
I'm not ready to get used to losing Stewie...so I refuse to get used to Herm's philosophy. Herm has, IMO, always been one-dimensional, and defenses are usually able to load up against one-dimensional teams and beat 'em. Yet another reason I think Herm should be replaced if at all possible.

I don't like losing either, but we knew what we were getting with Herm. I think Carl thought Herm's "Marty" philosophy would get us back to the winning seasons that we had in the '90s. I agree we'd be better off with another coach. That being said, I hope he proves me wrong and we get a SB win in the next five years.

OnTheWarpath58
12-28-2006, 02:00 PM
If the argument is that LJ is getting too many carries and Bennett should take some of the load, I agree.

If the argument is that all we do is run, I'm sorry, that doesn't wash.

So far, we're running 53%, passing 47%.

I don't see how that's one dimensional.

Now, if you'd like to argue the situational playcalling, that's another issue.

Reerun_KC
12-28-2006, 02:02 PM
Our offensive philosophy is offensive to say the least.

TN_Chief
12-28-2006, 02:02 PM
I very seriously doubt Herm will be here for the entire length of his contract. His history is not good (lifetime losing record) and I think many fans have about had it with the status quo. I'd like him gone now, but I think he'll have one more year. If the team improves measureably (and I don't mean statistically, I mean by record and the eyeball test) then he'll be kept. But another year like this or one that's worse and I think he'll be canned. You can't ignore his history, and if it appears to be repeating you've got to cut your losses.

You know what they say about the definition of insanity...it's doing the same thing and expecting different results. So far, I think Herm is living up to that very well.

Iowanian
12-28-2006, 02:03 PM
Playing to win on the last possession pisses me off..always has, always will.

Its too damn frustrating when it doesn't work. It doesn't work too darn well in the post season either, not that We'd really remember.

TN_Chief
12-28-2006, 02:06 PM
Warpath, I say it's one-dimensional because while we may be passing 47% of the time, I wouldn't call it a very productive or successful passing game. It's not enough to be a 50/50 (or thereabouts) split, you've got to be making both of them work. LJ has the potential to be a great back, but 47% passing attempts or not...if you're not completing them and getting downfield, the D will just start going man-up on the outside and bringing the safties and LBs up.

Count Zarth
12-28-2006, 02:08 PM
The Chiefs were hamstrung (no pun intended) by Michael Bennett's unavailability this year. I doubt they wanted to put this workload on Johnson.

I think our scheme is suited to our personnel. We simply can't play offense the way we used to. Solari's playcalling has been hot and cold, but I don't believe for a second Herm has destroyed our offense.

Mecca
12-28-2006, 02:09 PM
People look up those stats in individual games and post how we passed almost as much as we ran and then post it for the season.......

What people don't seem to take into account is in alot of those games, it looked close because we passed 15 times in a row at the end of a game when it was already over.

siberian khatru
12-28-2006, 02:10 PM
It's not very smart to give 1 player that many carries......atleast when Atlanta and Denver did it they made/won a Superbowl. We didn't even get playoffs out of it.

That's what's really depressing about this.

Just as we wasted Priest/Green/Roaf and the No. 1 offense with the 32 defense, now we're going to burn out and waste a franchise RB in LJ. Even worse than how we wasted the DT/Smith/Lewis/Carter etc. defenses of the 90s. At least those teams went to the playoffs.

RedThat
12-28-2006, 02:11 PM
If the argument is that LJ is getting too many carries and Bennett should take some of the load, I agree.

If the argument is that all we do is run, I'm sorry, that doesn't wash.

So far, we're running 53%, passing 47%.

I don't see how that's one dimensional.

Now, if you'd like to argue the situational playcalling, that's another issue.

Ok the situational playcalling at times, was bad. I remember the Cinci game at the beginning of the year, 3rd and goal at Cincis 8, we run the ball...Bad playcalling...I just think sometimes the Chiefs run the ball when its obvious they should pass. unneccessary playcalling im sure has cost us some games this year.

Reerun_KC
12-28-2006, 02:12 PM
Warpath, I say it's one-dimensional because while we may be passing 47% of the time, I wouldn't call it a very productive or successful passing game. It's not enough to be a 50/50 (or thereabouts) split, you've got to be making both of them work. LJ has the potential to be a great back, but 47% passing attempts or not...if you're not completing passes and getting downfield, the D will just start going man-up on the outside and bringing the safties and LBs up.


that is pretty much what is happening. Our ability to create mis-matching with our offensive personnel is not helping either. We seem to line up and play smashmouth to much. We used to be able to get Dante or Gonzo on a LB, or create confusion with shifts and motion. This also would create problems...

Right now we are lining up and playing 3 yards and a cloud of dust offense. Running agianst 8-9 man fronts all the time says one thing? Either our coaching staff is just idiots or we are strong enough to play 6 on 9 football and win that battle.

Well I would venture to say our coaching isnt putting us in the best situations to win. This is 2006 almost 07 and what we are seeing on the field died in the mid 90's. It isnt going to work. If it was going to work you would see more coaches playing this way....

Tell Herm that 1990 called and wants their playbook back.....

OnTheWarpath58
12-28-2006, 02:14 PM
Warpath, I say it's one-dimensional because while we may be passing 47% of the time, I wouldn't call it a very productive or successful passing game. It's not enough to be a 50/50 (or thereabouts) split, you've got to be making both of them work. LJ has the potential to be a great back, but 47% passing attempts or not...if you're not completing them and getting downfield, the D will just start going man-up on the outside and bringing the safties and LBs up.

That's fine, and I agree, but I consider that to fall under situational playcalling. Productive or successful is another issue.

My point is that too many here just want to bitch about being one dimensional. We're not. Stats prove it. The right place to place the blame, IMO, is in the situational playcalling, being too predictable, etc.

The coaching staff can only call the plays, it's up to the players to execute them. The ratio of run/pass is right where it should be, IMO.

Deberg_1990
12-28-2006, 02:15 PM
Ok the situational playcalling at times, was bad. I remember the Cinci game at the beginning of the year, 3rd and goal at Cincis 8, we run the ball...Bad playcalling...I just think sometimes the Chiefs run the ball when its obvious they should pass. unneccessary playcalling im sure has cost us some games this year.


Thats pretty much it....its the situational play calling not so much the amount.

But I dont think anybody would consider Herm one of the great offensive minds like Shanahan, Holmgren, Gruden, or Reid...


Herm plays to is strenghts (power run game and defense) He just doesnt have all the tools in place yet.

Woodrow Call
12-28-2006, 02:15 PM
I think our scheme is suited to our personnel. We simply can't play offense the way we used to. Solari's playcalling has been hot and cold, but I don't believe for a second Herm has destroyed our offense.

I agree with everything you said.

TN_Chief
12-28-2006, 02:21 PM
Even if you're predictable Warpath (and I think we are), if you're executing what you're trying to do it helps. I feel like I've seen a lot of off-target throws and dropped balls. That's not going to put the fear of God into a defense.

88TG88
12-28-2006, 02:25 PM
I feel like I've seen a lot of off-target throws and dropped balls. That's not going to put the fear of God into a defense.
i agree thats why when we do pass nobody worries about our "downfield threats"

OnTheWarpath58
12-28-2006, 02:27 PM
Even if you're predictable Warpath (and I think we are), if you're executing what you're trying to do it helps. I feel like I've seen a lot of off-target throws and dropped balls. That's not going to put the fear of God into a defense.


I agree with you. But I don't see how someone can blame Herm for off-target throws and dropped balls. He's trying to keep a balance, but it is difficult when the players don't produce.

Personally, I'd run the ball as much as I could get away with if my WR's couldn't hold on to the ball, or my QB gets killed every time he drops back to pass. At least he's attempting to keep things balanced, and no one seems to want to give him/Solari credit for that.

TN_Chief
12-28-2006, 02:29 PM
You can't blame Herm within an individual game Warpath, I agree. But he is the head coach, and part of his job is to make sure the players are doing theirs and improving their skills. When the mistakes keep occuring over time (as they have been), then you have to start questioning the job he and his assistants are doing on non-game days.

Reerun_KC
12-28-2006, 02:29 PM
Our offense looking like a Chinese firedrill with a bunch of retarded monkeys...

Besides, We are going to have to go into next season with at least 5 QB's on the roster. Those guys are getting killed on 3 step drops...

TN_Chief
12-28-2006, 02:33 PM
Silght addendum...

You can't blame Herm within an individual game for the mental mistakes (droppped balls, bad throws, etc.) of players. But within that game the blame for poor playcalling rests in his and his assistants' heads.

OnTheWarpath58
12-28-2006, 02:37 PM
You can't blame Herm within an individual game Warpath, I agree. But he is the head coach, and part of his job is to make sure the players are doing theirs and improving their skills. When the mistakes keep occuring over time (as they have been), then you have to start questioning the job he and his assistants are doing on non-game days.


I think that will change as time goes on. I honestly think a lot of it is attitude. As much as everyone wants Hicks, Sims, Dante, etc. cut, it's not that easy. You can't cut 1/3 of the team. It takes time.

And since the WR position was mentioned, you have to agree that we don't exactly have a lot of talent there. Soemthing to work on for sure.

If the man fails, he fails. But all these chicken littles wanting to can the guy after one year is silly. Give him a chance to implement his style with his players. That takes time. He signed a 4 year deal, and barring two 6-10 (or worse) seasons, he'll get his chance to make this his team.

Vermeil was 6-10 and 8-8 in his first two seasons here.

Mr. Laz
12-28-2006, 02:40 PM
I agree with you. But I don't see how someone can blame Herm for off-target throws and dropped balls. He's trying to keep a balance, but it is difficult when the players don't produce.
because these same offensive players were good enough to lead the league under Vermeil/Saunders.

imo it's not coincedence that an offense that was completely pathetic under Marty/Gunther turned in the #1 offense in the league in less than a year under Vermeil/Saunder.

the that same #1 offense turned back into crap under Herm/Solari.


coaching is Huge in this league


the ability to teach an offense ... coach up offensive players ... make a scheme fit the players ..... call plays that make the players better.


under marty the offensive line was never good enough to run a full offense ..... so we did martyball

under marty the QB was never good enough to run a full offense ..... so we did martyball.


sound familiar??


hermiemartyball makes offense players "less" ... make QB's generally look like crap.


there a better than average chance,imo,that we are going to go back to chasing the mythical perfect Oline ........ again. :(


We'll see

TN_Chief
12-28-2006, 02:41 PM
I think he gets next year Warpath. It's pretty clear the fans and media are disillusioned with the current regime (Carl and Herm). This year was something of a disaster...precise reasons are debatable, but it was still a mess. Another year like this one and I think (and hope) he's gone. I'd be fine if he got sacked this year, but that's because I also look at his tenure with the Jets, and I know some around here won't take that into consideration. But if we bomb again next year, I think the fans begin to find other places to spend their "sports dollar" if Herm and Carl aren't excused.

Count Zarth
12-28-2006, 02:43 PM
because these same offensive players were good enough to lead the league under Vermeil/Saunders.


WTF?

No Roaf. No Welbourn for half the season and he's still not playing like did last year. NO TRENT GREEN for half the season. No T-Rich.

If you've noticed we haven't been able to block the stretch play effectively all year. That means teams can key on the inside running game, making it less effective. And then there's the pass protection issues which obviously means no more 4,000-yard passing seasons.

Talent has been a greater issue than coaching this year.

Reerun_KC
12-28-2006, 02:44 PM
Vermeil was 6-10 and 8-8 in his first two seasons here.


That is true he was, but for the first time since 1989 there was a focus on the offensive side of the ball. The city of KC was so thrilled that we were going to be able to score points in a football game. Everyone was so exciting that DV was given a chance to build his team.

We had a real play to win coach, not one that played it close hoping to sqeak out a win at the end.


it was time for a change and DV brought that.

OnTheWarpath58
12-28-2006, 02:52 PM
That is true he was, but for the first time since 1989 there was a focus on the offensive side of the ball. The city of KC was so thrilled that we were going to be able to score points in a football game. Everyone was so exciting that DV was given a chance to build his team.

We had a real play to win coach, not one that played it close hoping to sqeak out a win at the end.


it was time for a change and DV brought that.

And he neglected the defense. Big deal, we scored a lot. We also lost quite a few games because 30 wasn't enough. I don't care how many points you score, you're not going to win much more than 50% of your games if you can't even force the opposition to punt once.

Personally, I don't care if we win by blowout or squeeking by at the end. A win is a win. But I think we have a better chance to win if we don't have to score 30+ every game.

It was time for a change on Defense, and Herm is bringing that.

Mr. Laz
12-28-2006, 02:53 PM
WTF?

No Roaf. No Welbourn for half the season and he's still not playing like did last year. NO TRENT GREEN for half the season. No T-Rich.

If you've noticed we haven't been able to block the stretch play effectively all year. That means teams can key on the inside running game, making it less effective. And then there's the pass protection issues which obviously means no more 4,000-yard passing seasons.

Talent has been a greater issue than coaching this year.
Kris Wilson has been doing fine ... Green is back

Roaf to Black is not a good enough excuse, by itself, to warrant an offense going completely down the drain.

Count Zarth
12-28-2006, 02:57 PM
Kris Wilson has been doing fine ... Green is back

Roaf to Black is not a good enough excuse, by itself, to warrant an offense going completely down the drain.

It's more than just Roaf.

StcChief
12-28-2006, 02:58 PM
Not catching ball on critical plays causes coaches to rethink this as well.

Agreed if the game logs were examined Mecca is right at times. Very deceptive stat. Garbage catches/TDs when you have lost. By not passing successfully during the game.

Reerun_KC
12-28-2006, 03:02 PM
And he neglected the defense. Big deal, we scored a lot. We also lost quite a few games because 30 wasn't enough. I don't care how many points you score, you're not going to win much more than 50% of your games if you can't even force the opposition to punt once.

Personally, I don't care if we win by blowout or squeeking by at the end. A win is a win. But I think we have a better chance to win if we don't have to score 30+ every game.

It was time for a change on Defense, and Herm is bringing that.

I never said DV wasnt without faults... But now we are neglecting the offense to build a defense.... Wierd so now in 2 years we are going to bitch that we cant score 10 points because or D held them to 9....


Nothing has changed, We were once feared on Defense and had no offense, We were once feared on Offense and had no defense. We are going back to the first with Herm...


"But I think we have a better chance to win if we don't have to score 30+ every game. " WTF mate? Why not try and outscore your freaking oponent every f*cking game?

I agree it was a time for a change. DV had his time. But if you notice the teams that are winning in the NFL dont play Hermieball...

I think the biggest problem is, we dont have the coaching staffs in recent memory that could put together both sides of the ball to be an effective football team...

sometimes you can catch lightening in a bottle and you might win a championship.

Rain Man
12-28-2006, 03:03 PM
I hate it. I disagree with the whole philosophy of slowing the offense down to help the defense. It's stupid, and makes no sense at all. We might as well say that we want the defense to give up long drives instead of three-and-outs to give the offense rest.

Count Zarth
12-28-2006, 03:06 PM
I disagree with the whole philosophy of slowing the offense down to help the defense.

I don't know how many times I have to say it.

2005 Kansas City Chiefs defense: faced 971 plays

2006 Kansas City Chiefs defense: faced 934 plays

CoMoChief
12-28-2006, 03:06 PM
Should have kept Al Saunders.

Count Zarth
12-28-2006, 03:09 PM
Should have kept Al Saunders.

Al wasn't staying here as OC.

Rain Man
12-28-2006, 03:11 PM
I don't know how many times I have to say it.

2005 Kansas City Chiefs defense: faced 971 plays

2006 Kansas City Chiefs defense: faced 934 plays


This may be why I hate it, but just to be sure, could you repeat it one more time?

OnTheWarpath58
12-28-2006, 03:12 PM
I never said DV wasnt without faults... But now we are neglecting the offense to build a defense.... Wierd so now in 2 years we are going to bitch that we cant score 10 points because or D held them to 9....


Nothing has changed, We were once feared on Defense and had no offense, We were once feared on Offense and had no defense. We are going back to the first with Herm...


"But I think we have a better chance to win if we don't have to score 30+ every game. " WTF mate? Why not try and outscore your freaking oponent every f*cking game?

I agree it was a time for a change. DV had his time. But if you notice the teams that are winning in the NFL dont play Hermieball...

I think the biggest problem is, we dont have the coaching staffs in recent memory that could put together both sides of the ball to be an effective football team...

sometimes you can catch lightening in a bottle and you might win a championship.

We're 15th in scoring offense. I wouldn't call that neglecting the offense. You're making our Offense out to be the ****ing Raiders. Our drafting hasn't exactly helped the situation.

Other than LJ, who's the last GOOD player we drafted on the offensive side of the ball? I'll give you a hint: 1997

"But I think we have a better chance to win if we don't have to score 30+ every game. " WTF mate? Why not try and outscore your freaking oponent every f*cking game?

I didn't say not try to outscore the opponent. I said if we didn't have to. In most cases, we HAD to score 30 to win. It's nice now to know that our defense can keep us in a game if the O is struggling.


But if you notice the teams that are winning in the NFL dont play Hermieball...

Tell that to Baltimore and Sandy Eggo.

CoMoChief
12-28-2006, 03:13 PM
Al wasn't staying here as OC.
Yeah I know. I preferred him over Herm.

Mr. Laz
12-28-2006, 03:13 PM
It's more than just Roaf.
enlighten us all then, grasshopper.


pass all that Athan wisdom along



or do i need my credit card?

OnTheWarpath58
12-28-2006, 03:13 PM
Should have kept Al Saunders.

He's doing a great job in Washington.....:rolleyes:

CoMoChief
12-28-2006, 03:14 PM
But if you notice the teams that are winning in the NFL dont play Hermieball...

Tell that to Baltimore and Sandy Eggo.

SD has one of the best offenses in the NFL. They aren't playing the same kinda Marty Ball anymore.

Mr. Laz
12-28-2006, 03:14 PM
I don't know how many times I have to say it.

2005 Kansas City Chiefs defense: faced 971 plays

2006 Kansas City Chiefs defense: faced 934 plays
and nobody is still buying it


this offense has been neutered to protect the defense ..... none of your stats changes that reality.

Mr. Laz
12-28-2006, 03:15 PM
He's doing a great job in Washington.....:rolleyes:

betcha Washington offense is better than ours next year.

ChiefsCountry
12-28-2006, 03:16 PM
If the offensive line was better we would open the offense back up. Blame Herm and Solari all you want but the line is the problem. Baltimore and San Diego were in Green's face before he was set, that is why we depend on LJ and the ground game.

CoMoChief
12-28-2006, 03:16 PM
He's doing a great job in Washington.....:rolleyes:

That's what happens when you have shit for brains as a QB. Our offense wasn't great in 2001 either, his first season with us.

He was a great playcaller for KC. You don't fix what's not broken.

Count Zarth
12-28-2006, 03:20 PM
and nobody is still buying it


this offense has been neutered to protect the defense ..... none of your stats changes that reality.

This is getting ridiculous.

The offense hasn't been neutered. How is the defense being protected? They've been on the field MORE this year.

OnTheWarpath58
12-28-2006, 03:22 PM
SD has one of the best offenses in the NFL. They aren't playing the same kinda Marty Ball anymore.

Really?

Run: 489 att. 53%

Pass: 440 att. 47%

Exact ratio as us.

It also helps that almost 60% of their offense comes from one player.


If LJ had scored 10 more TD's this year, our numbers would be up too.

Mr. Laz
12-28-2006, 03:28 PM
This is getting ridiculous.

The offense hasn't been neutered. How is the defense being protected? They've been on the field MORE this year.
fine ... then you can believe it


you can start you own "believe club" ......




members - 1

Mr. Laz
12-28-2006, 03:29 PM
Really?

Run: 489 att. 53%
Pass: 440 att. 47%
Exact ratio as us.
It also helps that almost 60% of their offense comes from one player.
If LJ had scored 10 more TD's this year, our numbers would be up too.

so our offense hasn't change a bit?

Count Zarth
12-28-2006, 03:31 PM
fine ... then you can believe it


you can start you own "believe club" ......




members - 1

I'm still waiting to hear how the defense has been protected.

Mecca
12-28-2006, 03:36 PM
This is getting ridiculous.

The offense hasn't been neutered. How is the defense being protected? They've been on the field MORE this year.

The only reason the defense looks better is because we've played a lighter schedule....you give them last years schedule we look the same as last year......then with the O decline....getting to play the NFC west basically saved the Chiefs a 5-11/6-10 year.

OnTheWarpath58
12-28-2006, 03:36 PM
so our offense hasn't change a bit?

It's changed a ton, but you don't want to hear it.....

Pro Bowl LT replaced by a guy who's average at his natural position: Guard.

Above average player replaced at RT by a 250 lb. TE experiment.

Pro Bowl FB replaced by a combination of Cruz/Wilson.

Pro Bowl QB missing for 8 games.

Pro Bowl RG and LG play is hampered by having to play next to a revolving door of said average players.



So, sure, we should still be scoring 30 a game.....

Mecca
12-28-2006, 03:37 PM
I'm still waiting to hear how the defense has been protected.

I'd also argue that the defensive stats are deceptive because of how teams gameplan for us now. Teams that use to play us realized they were going to be in a shootout and thus played to score 40..they no longer do that which leads to the offensive philosphy protecting the defense.

Count Zarth
12-28-2006, 03:39 PM
I'd also argue that the defensive stats are deceptive because of how teams gameplan for us now. Teams that use to play us realized they were going to be in a shootout and thus played to score 40..they no longer do that which leads to the offensive philosphy protecting the defense.

What a load of crap.

GROB
12-28-2006, 03:39 PM
Herm's style works when you are lacking talent to be a great team. It keeps you in the game against superior opponents. Problem is it keeps inferior opponents in the game and usually comes down to who makes the plays at the end of games.

OnTheWarpath58
12-28-2006, 03:41 PM
The only reason the defense looks better is because we've played a lighter schedule....you give them last years schedule we look the same as last year......then with the O decline....getting to play the NFC west basically saved the Chiefs a 5-11/6-10 year.

That's crap.

You're gonna tell me that the offenses of the Rams, Seahawks and Cardinals are worse than the Jets, Bills, Texans and Redskins of last year?

And throw in that the Bengals sat their starters?

Mecca
12-28-2006, 03:42 PM
What a load of crap.

If you really don't think teams gameplan on offense differently based upon how many points they think their opponent can score you don't pay much attention....

Mecca
12-28-2006, 03:43 PM
That's crap.

You're gonna tell me that the offenses of the Rams, Seahawks and Cardinals are worse than the Jets, Bills, Texans and Redskins of last year?

And throw in that the Bengals sat their starters?

We sure as **** wouldn't have gone 4-0 against the NFC East like we did the West that's for sure.

I'm sorry to inform you last years schedule was much more difficult than this one.

dirk digler
12-28-2006, 03:45 PM
I'm still waiting to hear how the defense has been protected.

Maybe because LJ could break the rushing attempts record. :shrug:

Count Zarth
12-28-2006, 03:47 PM
If you really don't think teams gameplan on offense differently based upon how many points they think their opponent can score you don't pay much attention....

Did you watch the Rams game? It really looked like they were only trying to score 20-something points. :rolleyes:

What about the Steelers game? What about teams pulling out crap like flea flickers?

Redcoats58
12-28-2006, 03:53 PM
"How do you feel about the execution of your team thus far?"

"I'm all for it!"

dirk digler
12-28-2006, 03:54 PM
I would like to remind gochiefs that he is going to be wrong...again

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=146575&highlight=Herm

LJ isn't going to carry it 400 times this year.

But Herm is going to come up about 80 carries short of his goal. Boy I can't wait until next year already. :rolleyes:

Mecca
12-28-2006, 03:57 PM
I would like to remind gochiefs that he is going to be wrong...again

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=146575&highlight=Herm



But Herm is going to come up about 80 carries short of his goal. Boy I can't wait until next year already. :rolleyes:

Yea we didn't make the playoffs because we didn't run it enough....I wouldn't be surprised if he actually thought that.

OnTheWarpath58
12-28-2006, 04:00 PM
We sure as **** wouldn't have gone 4-0 against the NFC East like we did the West that's for sure.

I'm sorry to inform you last years schedule was much more difficult than this one.

That wasn't your argument.

You said out defense looked better this year BECAUSE we played the NFC West. Last year's defense would've given up 40 against STL, ARI, and SEA.

And I'm sorry to inform you that last years opponents were 103-105 (.495) This years are (so far) 95-100 (.487)

I'm not sure that .008 difference is "much more difficult."

Count Zarth
12-28-2006, 04:08 PM
I would like to remind gochiefs that he is going to be wrong...again

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=146575&highlight=Herm



But Herm is going to come up about 80 carries short of his goal. Boy I can't wait until next year already. :rolleyes:

I said that in the belief that Bennett would take off some of the load. Unfortunately he got hurt so that went out the window. Them's the breaks.

Mecca
12-28-2006, 04:09 PM
I said that in the belief that Bennett would take off some of the load. Unfortunately he got hurt so that went out the window. Them's the breaks.

He wasn't taking carries when he wasn't hurt.....he was getting like 2-4 a game.

cdcox
12-28-2006, 04:25 PM
I think you have to score TDs when you get the chance (enter the red zone). Too many games down the stretch we didn't do that and ended up settling for a FG. In the Denver game the FG strategy was fine because it was obvious that strategy would win the game. You play to the situation, not to some mantra you've engraved in stone.

I don't agree with playing to win on the last possession, that is for sure. Again, take advantage of opportunities to win when they come.

I doubt the drop off in TDs was by design, but that is an area where we need to get much better.

I hate the idea of pulling LJ after he makes a run of more than 10 yards. That contributed to more than one drive stalling this year.

I'd like to see a better mix of plays in different situations. More passing on first and 10. More running on 3rd and 3 or less. We almost always pass on 3rd and 3 or 3rd and 2. That's a great situation to call a draw or to run.

Yeah, we have to work in Bennett more, if he can stay healthy. It wouldn't take much, just one series per half. Those series need to be carefully designed so that they move the ball and get at least one first down. If we cross the opponent's 40 on those drives, LJ needs to be in.

Reerun_KC
12-28-2006, 05:14 PM
We're 15th in scoring offense. I wouldn't call that neglecting the offense. You're making our Offense out to be the ****ing Raiders. Our drafting hasn't exactly helped the situation.

Other than LJ, who's the last GOOD player we drafted on the offensive side of the ball? I'll give you a hint: 1997

"But I think we have a better chance to win if we don't have to score 30+ every game. " WTF mate? Why not try and outscore your freaking oponent every f*cking game?

I didn't say not try to outscore the opponent. I said if we didn't have to. In most cases, we HAD to score 30 to win. It's nice now to know that our defense can keep us in a game if the O is struggling.


But if you notice the teams that are winning in the NFL dont play Hermieball...

Tell that to Baltimore and Sandy Eggo.


Um the last time I checked AJ Smith the GM of SD canned Martyball and his shitty coaching act. Cam Cameron it a hell of alot more creative then Herm or Marty ever thought about being.....

Good debate though.

OnTheWarpath58
12-28-2006, 05:20 PM
Um the last time I checked AJ Smith the GM of SD canned Martyball and his shitty coaching act. Cam Cameron it a hell of alot more creative then Herm or Marty ever thought about being.....

Good debate though.


From an earlier post:

Originally Posted by CoMoChief
SD has one of the best offenses in the NFL. They aren't playing the same kinda Marty Ball anymore.

Really?

Run: 489 att. 53%

Pass: 440 att. 47%

Exact ratio as us.

It also helps that almost 60% of their offense comes from one player.


If LJ had scored 10 more TD's this year, our numbers would be up too.


Again, we're back to situational playcalling. You can't tell me that a 53/47 run/pass ratio neuters an offense, because SD proves it doesn't.

Mr. Laz
12-28-2006, 05:31 PM
It's changed a ton, but you don't want to hear it.....

Pro Bowl LT replaced by a guy who's average at his natural position: Guard.

Above average player replaced at RT by a 250 lb. TE experiment.

Pro Bowl FB replaced by a combination of Cruz/Wilson.

Pro Bowl QB missing for 8 games.

Pro Bowl RG and LG play is hampered by having to play next to a revolving door of said average players.



So, sure, we should still be scoring 30 a game.....
and the dam play calling has changed


Trent green said it himself ...... that he's used to preparing with about 250 plays each game.

now it's 1/4 of that.


but yea ........ trent just doesn't want to hear it. He doesn't know football like you.


i swear we go through this every coach


we didn't have the offensive talent under marty ... but it took Vermeil 1 season to fix it.

we didn't have the defensive talent under vermeil ... but you can bet Herman gets it going next year.

we don't have the offensive talent under herman .... blah,blah,blah


guess what .... i bet our offensive line is never good enough UNTIL herman leaves and an offensive guy comes in.

RedThat
12-28-2006, 05:34 PM
Yea we didn't make the playoffs because we didn't run it enough....I wouldn't be surprised if he actually thought that.

I'll tell you why we didn't make the playoffs last year Mecca.

It was because we choked. And it's no different this year.

The Bottomline is, when you lose to Buffalo on the road, and blow a 20 point lead at home to the Eagles, that basically identified our season right there.

Same thing this year, we blew a lead to Cleveland on the road and choked that game as well. It's no different, just another year.

OnTheWarpath58
12-28-2006, 05:46 PM
and the dam play calling has changed


Trent green said it himself ...... that he's used to preparing with about 250 plays each game.

now it's 1/4 of that.


but yea ........ trent just doesn't want to hear it. He doesn't know football like you.

Where in this thread did I say the play calling HADN'T changed? I would hope the play calling would change when the OL can't give the QB enough time to complete a 3 step drop.


You've been arguing that Roaf to Black isn't the reason the offense declined. It's one of many reasons. Look at what you quoted.

If you think that we'd still be scoring 30+ a game if Jesus Saunders was still calling the plays, you're blind. We lost a lot more than Roaf, whether you want to admit it or not......

OnTheWarpath58
12-28-2006, 05:51 PM
i swear we go through this every coach


we didn't have the offensive talent under marty ... but it took Vermeil 1 season to fix it.

we didn't have the defensive talent under vermeil ... but you can bet Herman gets it going next year.

we don't have the offensive talent under herman .... blah,blah,blah


guess what .... i bet our offensive line is never good enough UNTIL herman leaves and an offensive guy comes in.

One season to fix it. While neglecting the defense. Record: 8-8. Wow.

I would say that jumping from 28th to 15th in Defense is "getting it going" And it didn't even take a season. Just a couple of draft picks and someone who actually cares about defense.

I find it interesting that while DV was here, one of the first things that was ever mentioned on a Chiefs broadcast was how the OL was the best in the league. How they were a key to the game.

Didn't hear that once this year.

Because it's true.....

GROB
12-28-2006, 07:43 PM
I would like to remind gochiefs that he is going to be wrong...again

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=146575&highlight=Herm




But Herm is going to come up about 80 carries short of his goal. Boy I can't wait until next year already. :rolleyes:
You should point out when he is right, he is always making wrong predictions. Counting on Michael Bennett is like counting on Tatum Bell, both china dolls.

suds79
12-28-2006, 07:49 PM
I mean, I like Larry Johnson, but I don't agree with constantly running the ball.

I know we're putting the ball in the hands of our best player, but, I don't think it's smart because LJ will wear down fast. sooner than later imo. All this is doing is shortening his career.

IMO that's the nature of the RB position.

Use them early and often and when they hit 30, wad them up like a piece of trash and get a new one.

LJ has about 2-3 good years left IMO and I'm fine with that.

Deberg_1990
12-28-2006, 07:55 PM
LJ has about 2-3 good years left IMO and I'm fine with that.


Same here...actually RB is one of the easiest positions to replace in the draft.

Halfcan
12-28-2006, 08:20 PM
We need more points.

Manila-Chief
12-28-2006, 08:30 PM
so our offense hasn't change a bit?

Laz ... do these guys NOT listen to Herm's news conferences ... where he states that he wants the offense to not score too quickly in order to protect the defense... plus, when Trent Green came back he said he was having a difficult time adjusting to the new philosophy???

I believe it was the Baltimore and maybe the SD games I was watching the play calling ... it was LJ run, run, and then attempt a pass on 3rd. and long ... punt. Finally, for this last game they began to pass on 1st. down. If the philosophy was the same then why did LJ speak out about needing a change????

I remember after about the 2nd. or 3rd. game that Herm scolded Mike, the OC, for not running his philosophy. So, why is that not a change in offense philosophy? Yeah, the even mix of O/D was there but much of the passing was when we needed to catch up.

I agree that is on the Head Coach ...

Count Zarth
12-28-2006, 08:32 PM
The Chiefs passed on first down 14 times against the Chargers. They still got their ****ing asses kicked. WE CAN'T BLOCK ANYONE. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PLAYCALLING OR PHILOSOPHY. IT'S ****ING TALENT AND WE DON'T HAVE IT.

Manila-Chief
12-28-2006, 08:36 PM
And defenses knowing you are going to run on 1st. and 2nd. down has nothing to do with the line being able to block????

You write for WPI, correct?

Count Zarth
12-28-2006, 08:38 PM
And defenses knowing you are going to run on 1st. and 2nd. down has nothing to do with the line being able to block????


What the hell are you going on about now? The Chiefs failed with their run-run-pass-punt approach. They failed with a more balanced approach. It's CLEARLY a talent issue. Or did you not see Trent Green taking two-step drops before a linebacker smashed into him against San Diego?

Manila-Chief
12-28-2006, 08:40 PM
The Chiefs passed on first down 14 times against the Chargers. They still got their ****ing asses kicked. WE CAN'T BLOCK ANYONE. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PLAYCALLING OR PHILOSOPHY. IT'S ****ING TALENT AND WE DON'T HAVE IT.

So, you really are saying that there was not a change in philosophy nor play calling?

Count Zarth
12-28-2006, 08:41 PM
So, you really are saying that there was not a change in philosophy nor play calling?

I didn't say that.

GROB
12-28-2006, 08:47 PM
The Chiefs passed on first down 14 times against the Chargers. They still got their ****ing asses kicked. WE CAN'T BLOCK ANYONE. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PLAYCALLING OR PHILOSOPHY. IT'S ****ING TALENT AND WE DON'T HAVE IT.
You should break it down by the score, 1st downs ahead, tied, or behind.

RedThat
12-28-2006, 08:51 PM
The Chiefs passed on first down 14 times against the Chargers. They still got their ****ing asses kicked. WE CAN'T BLOCK ANYONE. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PLAYCALLING OR PHILOSOPHY. IT'S ****ING TALENT AND WE DON'T HAVE IT.

It has to do more with mismatches. The Chiefs SUCK at picking up blitzes. I watched part of that game. The Chargers were sending more defenders than the Chiefs could block thats all it is.

So who is to blame their for not creating the proper matchups, or even audibling? Do we ever do any of that? Hardly. That is a bigtime blame on coaching.

Mecca
12-28-2006, 09:02 PM
IMO that's the nature of the RB position.

Use them early and often and when they hit 30, wad them up like a piece of trash and get a new one.

LJ has about 2-3 good years left IMO and I'm fine with that.

It's one thing to use your RB.......it's another to set him up to carry the most times in NFL history.

dirk digler
12-28-2006, 09:50 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if he actually thought that.

Me either

KCJohnny
12-28-2006, 09:53 PM
I mean, I like Larry Johnson, but I don't agree with constantly running the ball.

I know we're putting the ball in the hands of our best player, but, I don't think it's smart because LJ will wear down fast. sooner than later imo. All this is doing is shortening his career. Id like to see some longevity with the man because he is a great football player. Im just not sure if that can happen? Given the pace he is going at right now. He is only 28 carries away from tying the all time record for most carries in a season set by Jamal Anderson in 1998, 410 carries.

We all know what happened to that guy after?

I just dont like this whole run, run, run the ball mentality...control the clock type of offense. It's smart in a way because it gives the team a lesser chance to come back, but come on? they cant keep giving LJ 28 to 30 carries a game. Id like to at least see Bennett get some more carries, or even Dee Brown...Or pass a little more? I dont know...It can just can backfire on us...but not only that, it makes our offense more predictable, more conservative because we're just being plain and not opening things up...This is a BIG reason why we've dropped considerably on offense.

Herm has killed the NFL's most potent and balanced offense. The run/run/pass/punt offense has been tried here and it fell just short (1995 and 1997). With just a bit more imagination with the playcalling, we might be 10-5 now.