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View Full Version : ESPN reports that the Chiefs are dealing with Gonzalez.


SLQ
12-29-2006, 05:13 PM
They are reporting a $15M signing bonus and $5M a year for an undisclosed amount of time.

Bootlegged
12-29-2006, 05:16 PM
Please don't. Spend the money on O-line or elsewhere.

DaneMcCloud
12-29-2006, 05:25 PM
Please don't. Spend the money on O-line or elsewhere.

The salary cap will be $109 million next year and it will just keep going up. I see no problem with this, whatsoever.

Pestilence
12-29-2006, 05:26 PM
link?

chiefbowe82
12-29-2006, 05:27 PM
We can't afford to lose a competitor like Tony Gonzalez when the fact of the matter is we really need to build up the offense as much as we do the defense.

Crashride
12-29-2006, 05:29 PM
GONZO MUST STAY AND RETIRE AS A CHIEF

ArrowheadHawk
12-29-2006, 05:31 PM
:thumb: greatest move ever



ok maybee not but good move

Crashride
12-29-2006, 05:36 PM
this thread better be real. I think all of us subconsiously accepted that gonzo was leaving so it wouldnt hurt as much but this news gets us excited again

chiefbowe82
12-29-2006, 05:43 PM
now if we can keep Brain Waters so our O-line doesn't completely fall apart and add two new tackles and either/or/both a WR and DT we might be cookin with gas

listopencil
12-29-2006, 05:47 PM
I think you guys had to keep Gonzales if it was at all possible. Problems with the O-Line and a questionable WR corps.

SNR
12-29-2006, 05:55 PM
They are reporting a $15M signing bonus and $5M a year for an undisclosed amount of time.Ah, so THAT'S what not winning a Super Bowl ring in your entire career is worth these days.

Iowanian
12-29-2006, 06:03 PM
Please no....not for an over 30 TE...even if he has been a great one.

If true....I wonder what LJ will now fancy HIS value...

the Talking Can
12-29-2006, 06:05 PM
glad to keep him....but if we want to actually rebuild this is not a great idea....and if Tony gets $15 mill bonus then what the hell can LJ command?

$20-25 mill?

Deberg_1990
12-29-2006, 06:10 PM
I think you guys had to keep Gonzales if it was at all possible. Problems with the O-Line and a questionable WR corps.


Pretty much. Hes our only reliable recieving threat. Kennison is getting old.

chiefbowe82
12-29-2006, 06:12 PM
Owens is coming our way

tk13
12-29-2006, 06:18 PM
glad to keep him....but if we want to actually rebuild this is not a great idea....and if Tony gets $15 mill bonus then what the hell can LJ command?

$20-25 mill?
I would expect LJ to get 20-25 million in signing bonus, regardless of what we did with Tony. He should blow every Chiefs contract ever away. Tomlinson got something like 18 million in bonus money, Marvin Harrison got 22... and that was a couple years ago, teams have even more money and cap room to spend. I'm guessing LJ will want to be in that ballpark.

DTLB58
12-29-2006, 06:33 PM
I think the question should be not do we want him to stay but does Tony want to stay a chief?

If I were him I would want to move on to a real contender with a better chance at a SB.

FWIW. I want him to retire a Chief. He showed nothing this year that his skills are down nor is he a problem in the locker room or off the field.

I still thnk he can contribute in a positive way to this team's success.

Deberg_1990
12-29-2006, 06:36 PM
I think the question should be not do we want him to stay but does Tony want to stay a chief?

If I were him I would want to move on to a real contender with a better chance at a SB.




If i had to take a guess...its probably all about the $$$$$$ for Tony.

the Talking Can
12-29-2006, 06:41 PM
If i had to take a guess...its probably all about the $$$$$$ for every professional athlete ever.

fixed it

Mecca
12-29-2006, 06:41 PM
I would expect LJ to get 20-25 million in signing bonus, regardless of what we did with Tony. He should blow every Chiefs contract ever away. Tomlinson got something like 18 million in bonus money, Marvin Harrison got 22... and that was a couple years ago, teams have even more money and cap room to spend. I'm guessing LJ will want to be in that ballpark.

If they pay LJ that after the amount of carries he has this year.......we'll have some real nice years of a high paid unproductive player.

That's also far to much money for a player over 30 years old....typical Chiefs.

HMc
12-29-2006, 06:41 PM
maybe tg enjoys playing footballl for the kansas city chiefs.

Wile_E_Coyote
12-29-2006, 06:59 PM
Peterson will not put the team in cap hell, even if it means not being competitive. But we all knew that

Fruit Ninja
12-29-2006, 07:08 PM
Peterson will not put the team in cap hell, even if it means not being competitive. But we all knew that
Wont be in Cap hell, I shields may retired., Priest Holmes may retire, Trent Green May retire, thats seriously taking us way below the cap.

milkman
12-29-2006, 07:20 PM
Depending how long the contract is for, if Tony has at least 3 more good seasons left, he'll be a pretty good player to have around as we transition into the Croyle era.

But I wouldn't lose any sleep over losing him either.

KCChiefsFan88
12-29-2006, 07:58 PM
Here is story from ESPN.com... from Pastabelly's Insider column:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2713810&univLogin02=stateChanged&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dpasquar elli_len%26id%3d2713810%26univLogin02%3dstateChanged


KC dealing with Gonzalez: A deal isn't imminent, but at least Kansas City Chiefs officials jump-started contract negotiations with Tony Gonzalez this week, as ESPN.com has learned the club made a new proposal to the seven-time Pro Bowl performer. The new offer to Gonzalez, eligible for unrestricted free agency in the spring, included about $15 million in guarantees and a per-year average in excess of $5 million. It's hard to fathom the Chiefs allowing Gonzalez, one of the league's all-time great players at his position, to make it to the free-agent market. But as noted here a few months ago, using the franchise marker on Gonzalez would cost the Chiefs a salary cap charge in excess of $11 million. So it's in the team's best interest to complete a long-term deal with the 10-year veteran. Smart money says team president Carl Peterson and agent Tom Condon will get one done in the next two months.

Bob Dole
12-29-2006, 08:01 PM
Depending how long the contract is for, if Tony has at least 3 more good seasons left, he'll be a pretty good player to have around as we transition into the Croyle era.

But I wouldn't lose any sleep over losing him either.

In the era of free agency, Bob Dole likes to see guys play their entire career with one team.

That said, you really couldn't blame TG if he wants to get the hell out of Mediocreville and have a chance at a ring.

PastorMikH
12-29-2006, 08:07 PM
glad to keep him....but if we want to actually rebuild this is not a great idea....and if Tony gets $15 mill bonus then what the hell can LJ command?

$20-25 mill?



LJ will command that regardless of what Tony signs for. LJ will look around the league and see what the other top RBs are making and ask for comparable - which will be in that range (or more).

SLQ
12-29-2006, 08:10 PM
link?

It was on ESPN TV. I don't have a link.

Fried Meat Ball!
12-29-2006, 08:15 PM
this thread better be real. I think all of us subconsiously accepted that gonzo was leaving so it wouldnt hurt as much but this news gets us excited again
Speak for yourself, Crashride. I don't expect Gonzo to leave. With CP's ego, you're talking about a pick he made that WILL be a 1st round hall of famer... Gonzo will never be anything but a Chief.

Bob Dole
12-29-2006, 08:19 PM
Wont be in Cap hell, I shields may retired., Priest Holmes may retire, Trent Green May retire, thats seriously taking us way below the cap.

Trent has said nothing that indicates he plans to retire. He's actually stated that he'd like to play a few more years.

milkman
12-29-2006, 08:22 PM
In the era of free agency, Bob Dole likes to see guys play their entire career with one team.

That said, you really couldn't blame TG if he wants to get the hell out of Mediocreville and have a chance at a ring.

Yeah, I could see that, but I also think that FMB is right about Carl not allowing Tony to leave.

NaptownChief
12-29-2006, 08:33 PM
Little doubt that Gonzo and Condom will bend Peterson over. Peterson acts like the big heavy hard ass with draft picks on contracts cause he owns their draft rights but the moment a player is a free agent he gets abused like a prom dress. He is probably still paying Warfield.

Fruit Ninja
12-29-2006, 08:46 PM
Trent has said nothing that indicates he plans to retire. He's actually stated that he'd like to play a few more years.I said he may i dont knwo for sure, Maybe CP knows something more then we do? Actually, i am sure he knows more then we do. CP has never really put this team in cap hell and i dont think he will start.

Tribal Warfare
12-29-2006, 08:49 PM
CP has never really put this team in cap hell and i dont think he will start.


Kinda like going/winning playoff games :banghead:

Easy 6
12-29-2006, 08:51 PM
I think its a GREAT thing, its so, So, SO rare for a guy to retire with the same team these days & it sets a great example for the NFL in general.

I saw nothing this year that said he was about to calcify either, looked stronger than ever.

Tony's got ATLEAST 3 good years left......a Hall of Famer "born & raised" in :kc: .

Bob Dole
12-29-2006, 09:18 PM
I said he may i dont knwo for sure, Maybe CP knows something more then we do? Actually, i am sure he knows more then we do. CP has never really put this team in cap hell and i dont think he will start.


All Bob Dole knows is that Green explicitly stated in an interview this past week that he has absolutely no intent to retire after this season.

The fortunate thing is that the majority of the people understand what I've been able to do the last several years and they appreciate that. I feel like I have several more years of football to play. As long as I have the support of my coaches, teammates, and organization.

Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2713727)

dtebbe
12-29-2006, 09:37 PM
In the era of free agency, Bob Dole likes to see guys play their entire career with one team.

That said, you really couldn't blame TG if he wants to get the hell out of Mediocreville and have a chance at a ring.

New Orleans or Indianapolis would be all over TG if he was a FA.

Can you imagine Wayne, Harrison, Stokley, and TG in a 3 or 4 wide set?

Or how about Joe Horn, Marcus Coleston, TG, and Reggie B, with Duece in the backfield.... man talk about matchup issues...

DT

Guru
12-29-2006, 09:42 PM
Damnit Carl!!! :banghead: :banghead: :cuss: :cuss:

greg63
12-29-2006, 09:45 PM
Damnit Carl!!! :banghead: :banghead: :cuss: :cuss:

Queen Carl at his finest.

Thig Lyfe
12-29-2006, 10:00 PM
Sad that the best tight end ever will not win a Super Bowl. :(

Extra Point
12-29-2006, 10:32 PM
I hope LJ and Tony G were in the negotiation meetings at the same time.

Tony G earned his salary. If LJ wants a shitload more, then he's going to need to be patient.

Until they get Nacho Holmes completely off the payroll.

Direckshun
12-29-2006, 10:39 PM
You can't expect to compete for the Super Bowl when you let an All Pro go.

The Chiefs must keep Tony G, and they know it. They're smart to pay him well to stay. We need him to win.

Problems with O line? Problems with receiving corp? Tony can't single-handedly fix either of those problems, but he drastically reduces them.

And, oh yeah, All Pro. All Pro. All Pro. All Pro. Clutch. Smart player. Best at his position. All Pro.

Sign his ass. Pay Jared a fat check, too.

Mecca
12-29-2006, 10:41 PM
You can't expect to compete for the Super Bowl when you let an All Pro go.

The Chiefs must keep Tony G, and they know it. They're smart to pay him well to stay. We need him to win.

Problems with O line? Problems with receiving corp? Tony can't single-handedly fix either of those problems, but he drastically reduces them.

And, oh yeah, All Pro. All Pro. All Pro. All Pro. Clutch. Smart player. Best at his position. All Pro.

Sign his ass. Pay Jared a fat check, too.

The Chiefs won't be competing for a Superbowl with or without him for atleast 3 years......there are far to many holes.

Extra Point
12-29-2006, 10:43 PM
......there are far to many holes.

Which the front office has probably been chasing.

thepascalblaze
12-29-2006, 10:54 PM
A chiefs fan without optimism is like a Christmas without Jesus... oh, wait...

Bob Dole
12-29-2006, 11:01 PM
The Chiefs won't be competing for a Superbowl with or without him for atleast 3 years......there are far to many holes.

Until this year, Bob Dole would have agreed.

If the Saints manage to complete their Cinderella Season and make it to the SB, Bob Dole is going to be convinced that the whole damned league is no different than pro wrestling.

Mecca
12-29-2006, 11:09 PM
Until this year, Bob Dole would have agreed.

If the Saints manage to complete their Cinderella Season and make it to the SB, Bob Dole is going to be convinced that the whole damned league is no different than pro wrestling.

The Saints were also a classic underachieving team until this year...they made some good offseason moves and got a coach to get those players to live up to what they should be and there you go.

Direckshun
12-29-2006, 11:17 PM
The Chiefs won't be competing for a Superbowl with or without him for atleast 3 years......there are far to many holes.
Like where?

Our defense has performed admirably, and though it doesn't sport any big names, it's only lacking one quality starting linebacker in Bell's place (which we obviously have in Fox, who's played well), one quality starting free safety (which we obviously have in Page, ditto), and a strong push up the middle (this is going to be a big point of offseason emphasis).

Edwards himself admitted this defense was about three or four quality players away from being great, and he's absolutely right. From the look of our young backups, we can fill most of those holes off our own bench.

On offense, we only have a couple holes, but they are significant and this is where big money should be spent. O-line is a definite concern, and so is a big #1 receiver or two.

But where else? Fullback is fine with Cruz and Bigfoot. QB is doubly fine if we sign Huard like we should. We'll have perfect balance on TE with Tony back. And we're strong on special teams.

So that's what, three major holes that need plugging? Mecca, dude, that's like four or five serious acquisitions. That's easily possible in 1 offseason, and moreso in three seasons like you say.

orange
12-29-2006, 11:19 PM
Sad that the best tight end ever will not win a Super Bowl. :(

Don't be sad. The best tight end ever won three Super Bowls.

orange
12-29-2006, 11:22 PM
... Maybe CP knows something more then we do? Actually, i am sure he knows more then we do.

Like he knew the Chiefs would need a new Left Tackle this year?

orange
12-29-2006, 11:25 PM
Back to the main subject, ESPN reports what they think was the Chiefs offer. The question is, is that offer any good? If they franchise him, he gets the average of the top five contracts at his position, or a 20% raise, whichever is higher. Does anyone know how this offer stacks up against that?

|Zach|
12-30-2006, 12:00 AM
Like he knew the Chiefs would need a new Left Tackle this year?
What was CP supposed to do in that situation?

What amazing left tackle could the guy have gotten after mini camps. I look forward to hear what you would have done in that situation.

orange
12-30-2006, 12:05 AM
What was CP supposed to do in that situation?

What amazing left tackle could the guy have gotten after mini camps. I look forward to hear what you would have done in that situation.

Gee, I didn't realize there were NO tackles available in the draft or free agency or for a trade last year. My mistake.

No wonder CP was left with a player with a bad back trying to make a comeback after what was it, two years off? ... as a Tight End, no less.


[Edit] I just noticed the "after minicamps" in your post. Roaf made it quite clear multiple times last year in the press that his health was questionable and he was year-to-year. He also said in interviews that he had made this clear to CP. Peterson is the one who chose to disregard that.

Easy 6
12-30-2006, 12:08 AM
Gee, I didn't realize there were NO tackles available in the draft or free agency or for a trade last year. My mistake.

No wonder CP was left with a player with a bad back trying to make a comeback after what was it, two years off? ... as a Tight End, no less.

2 games from Jake Utler & here comes the new Mouth from Uranus.

orange = Yellow.

orange
12-30-2006, 12:10 AM
2 games from Jake Utler & here comes the new Mouth from Uranus.

orange = Yellow.

Look at my Joined date, stupid newbie.

|Zach|
12-30-2006, 12:14 AM
Gee, I didn't realize there were NO tackles available in the draft or free agency or for a trade last year. My mistake.

No wonder CP was left with a player with a bad back trying to make a comeback after what was it, two years off? ... as a Tight End, no less.


[Edit] I just noticed the "after minicamps" in your post. Roaf made it quite clear multiple times last year in the press that his health was questionable and he was year-to-year. He also said in interviews that he had made this clear to CP. Peterson is the one who chose to disregard that.
He also agreed to play that next year. He was on our team...practicing.

Seriously though, I want names. Who would you have gotten that would be an upgrade.

Easy 6
12-30-2006, 12:14 AM
Look at my Joined date, stupid newbie.

Your lightin' it up with 10 posts a year!!!

STFU

orange
12-30-2006, 12:16 AM
I think any average HEALTHY close-to-300 lb. tackle would have been better than Turley. Turley himself didn't think he could play tackle; that's why he tried out as a TE. But, to his credit, he gave as good a try as you could ask for.

orange
12-30-2006, 12:18 AM
Your lightin' it up with 10 posts a year!!!

STFU

Some people don't measure their worth by their post counts on silly bulletin boards. Then there's you...

|Zach|
12-30-2006, 12:23 AM
I think any average HEALTHY close-to-300 lb. tackle would have been better than Turley. Turley himself didn't think he could play tackle; that's why he tried out as a TE. But, to his credit, he gave as good a try as you could ask for.
I knew you couldn't come up with anyone.

ClevelandBronco
12-30-2006, 12:26 AM
As a fan of the game, I don't like to see a guy who has been one of the best ever at his position leave the team he's come up with. (But as a Bronco fan, I'd be happy to see Mr. Gonzalez playing in another division. Even better, in another conference.)

Trent can't play forever, and some of you want him out now. A good TE is one of the best weapons a new QB can have. I think y'all would be better off if you just paid the man what he's worth on the open market.

ClevelandBronco
12-30-2006, 12:34 AM
Don't be sad. The best tight end ever won three Super Bowls.

The best tight end ever never won a Super Bowl.

http://www.clevelandseniors.com/photos/rutigliano/ozzie1.jpg

orange
12-30-2006, 12:34 AM
I knew you couldn't come up with anyone.

You're wrong. I never tried and never will. If you want to find out all the teams that added tackles last year, do your own research. It was YOUR question, not mine. I have no interest.

My point was that CP was blindsided - he's not the omniscient genius that the poster I quoted seems to believe.

Easy 6
12-30-2006, 12:37 AM
Some people don't measure their worth by their post counts on silly bulletin boards. Then there's you...

Post counts be damned, its your snotnosed & worthless jabs that discredit you.

Slink back to the 2 game Jay Elway 2.0 woodwork, your Fortress of Ignorance awaits.

orange
12-30-2006, 12:41 AM
Ozzie knows:

"Ozzie Newsome, Hall-of-Fame tight-end, Ravens' general manager, and the man responsible for signing Sharpe before the 2000 season had this to say about him, "I think he's a threat when he's on the field. He has to be double-teamed. He's a great route-runner. He's proven that he can make the big plays. That's what separates him. He's a threat." Sharpe played in 8 Pro Bowls(1992-1998, 2001) and amassed over 1,000 receiving yards in 3 different seasons. In a 1993 playoff game against the Los Angeles Raiders, Sharpe tied a postseason record with 13 receptions for 156 yards and a touchdown. In the Ravens 2000 AFC title game against the Raiders, he caught a short pass on 3rd down and 18 from his own 4-yard line and took it 96 yards for a touchdown, assisting his team to a 16-3 win. He finished his 14 year career with 815 receptions for 10,060 yards and 62 touchdowns in 204 games. Sharpe is the NFL's all-time receptions and yardage leader for a tight-end, surpassing even Newsome's Hall-of-Fame records."

"Sharpe, a hall-of-fame-caliber player, will be eligible for the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2008."

|Zach|
12-30-2006, 12:53 AM
My point was that CP was blindsided - he's not the omniscient genius that the poster I quoted seems to believe.
I would exaggerate another's opinion to make my point if I was you as well.

No biggie though, there are a lot of great message board hindsight GMs.

orange
12-30-2006, 12:55 AM
As a fan of the game, I don't like to see a guy who has been one of the best ever at his position leave the team he's come up with. (But as a Bronco fan, I'd be happy to see Mr. Gonzalez playing in another division. Even better, in another conference.)


By the way...
You know there's a long and storied tradition of AFC West free agents moving to other teams in the Division...

orange
12-30-2006, 12:59 AM
I would exaggerate another's opinion to make my point if I was you as well.

No biggie though, there are a lot of great message board hindsight GMs.

And a lot of thin-skinned company men ready to defend Carl over the slightest hint of his fallability, as well.

ClevelandBronco
12-30-2006, 01:00 AM
By the way...
You know there's a long and storied tradition of AFC West free agents moving to other teams in the Division...

Yeah. I know.

Keep dreaming.

orange
12-30-2006, 01:02 AM
Yeah. I know.

Keep dreaming.

:hmmm:

RedThat
12-30-2006, 01:18 AM
I say, get on the ball and sign TG while you can.

if these reports are true, then as a fan, all I can say is, Im pleased the Chiefs are making effort to try and keep TG.

I know he is 30. But who cares? It's not like the guy is on his last set of legs? How many receivers do we see play till a ripe old age? And not only that, STILL produce.

The guy is consistent and one of the best players on our team. All he does is produce every year, and make the probowl. I'll take that! All it does it create stability within our offense, and make it easier for us to rebuild our offense.

*Yes we have problems on offense, but we can always draft a WR, or even an OL?

Halfcan
12-30-2006, 01:20 AM
I wanted to be the first to say:::: SLQ kicks some major ASS!!! Welcome to the Planet you crazy inbreed sonofabitch!!!

Mecca
12-30-2006, 03:51 AM
Like where?

Our defense has performed admirably, and though it doesn't sport any big names, it's only lacking one quality starting linebacker in Bell's place (which we obviously have in Fox, who's played well), one quality starting free safety (which we obviously have in Page, ditto), and a strong push up the middle (this is going to be a big point of offseason emphasis).

Edwards himself admitted this defense was about three or four quality players away from being great, and he's absolutely right. From the look of our young backups, we can fill most of those holes off our own bench.

On offense, we only have a couple holes, but they are significant and this is where big money should be spent. O-line is a definite concern, and so is a big #1 receiver or two.

But where else? Fullback is fine with Cruz and Bigfoot. QB is doubly fine if we sign Huard like we should. We'll have perfect balance on TE with Tony back. And we're strong on special teams.

So that's what, three major holes that need plugging? Mecca, dude, that's like four or five serious acquisitions. That's easily possible in 1 offseason, and moreso in three seasons like you say.

Fine I'll point out every single hole and problem with this team, if you still think this team is solid and doesn't have many I'll question your sanity..thinking "this team is close" is very homer.

QB-possible hole, I don't list it as a major issue because Green will likely return. Huard will not as he is an FA and will get a better offer elsewhere....Croyle no one knows, I'd look to make a move for someone like a Leftwich who will likely be available with starting experience but is still young enough to be part of the future.

RB-Yes Larry Johnson is a top level RB right...we also have a backup who if you touch him he gets injured. Unless the Chiefs figure out a way to significantly drop his carries next year we'll be looking at replacing this position shortly. RB is the easiest position to fill in todays game so I don't consider this a problem or a hole.

FB-Fullback is a position being phased out in the league so counting it as a hole probably isn't a great idea. But if we are going to run this power game where we run it up the middle 25 times they should look to improve at the position...Wilsons adequete and I don't care for Cruz I don't think he belongs on the team.

WR-This position has holes up and down the board. We essentially have nothing at this position. Eddie Kennison is a decent WR but is starting to show the signs of decline which is to be expected from a player his age at WR. After him we literally have nothing else at the position it needs an entire overhaul.

TE-No holes as of now.....if Gonzalez isn't resigned there will be a hole, but it isn't a huge issue. The Chiefs will likely overpay to keep him creating a whole nother problem....I won't go into that here. Say he's back we have 2 TE's on the wrong side of 30 and another guy in Wilson who isn't a true TE in the NFL....there will be some problems here in a few years but not now.

OL-Here is where gaping holes can be seen......Outside of Brian Waters this line has been awful. We have no Tackles....Casey Weigman was a good player in our sweep outside game but with Herm we don't even do that anymore. Running straight up the gut isn't Weigmans game and he looks noticeably worse being asked to do something he isn't good at. You're looking at Shields retiring...absolutely nothing on this team to replace anyone with. It will take more than 1 offseason to address the holes of this line...

DL-Allen and Hali are fine....James Reed is fine if he's your 3rd or 4th DT and not starting. We have massive DT problems and we have issues when we rotate and complete wastes of space like Hicks come in.....

LB-Derrick Johnson is our 1 LB.....the rest of the guys are trash. Mitchell ****s up far to much to be considered even a good player..Bell isn't good. Key Fox got his shot to play and showed that he's pretty crappy too....Outside of DJ this entire position needs an overhaul.

CB-So lets see we have 2 corners on the wrong side of 30 being paid quite a bit of money yet not performing....our 3rd corner Lenny Walls is a pile of shit....then you have Benny Sapp who shouldn't be anymore more than a 5th corner/special teams guy. Marcus Maxey no one even knows......I'd say we have problems at this position.

S-Page looks like a nice player........I don't know why everyone jumps up and down about Pollard....he can't get on the field as a safety so he's an unknown he can't be counted as a great young player right now, he's a good special teams player at this time that's about it. I won't rate it as a hole but it could become one if Pollard doesn't take the steps to start.

Now I'm going to address special teams because you said they were solid........Good punter, Average kicker.......the blocking and coverage units are ****ing awful though. I don't think that makes for solid special teams. Until they fix that whether it be players and coaches or both they are not solid on special teams they are below average.

You know what the biggest problem with this entire team is? There is 0 leadership anywhere. We have no leaders, we have some guys who may try but you have to have the respect of the players to be a leader. Kawika Mitchell says some shit to Law and Surtain and they looked at him like "STFU"....you can't be a leader when you don't have the respect.

Until this team finds some real leaders that everyone respects and has to answer to aside from the coaches we'll continue to be stuck in this spot also. They'll continue to fold like a cheap suit when things get tough.....

Guru
12-30-2006, 05:00 AM
Can't really argue with that assessment Mecca.

MahiMike
12-30-2006, 06:20 AM
Tony's a crutch. As long as he's here, there'll be no need to look for WRs.

Maybe they prove me wrong and actually sign a WR.

Mr. Laz
12-30-2006, 11:30 AM
i wanna keep him ..... but not sure giving a 15 million dollar signing bonus to a 30+ year old tightend is such a good idea.

StcChief
12-30-2006, 11:36 AM
i wanna keep him ..... but not sure giving a 15 million dollar signing bonus to a 30+ year old tightend is such a good idea.

Clark may be alittle looser with purse strings.

Glad Gonzo is staying and will go OUT as A CHIEF.....
When he passes THannon THarp it will be sweet....

He is our only real passing weapon, and keeps D honest. So EK,Sammie can get throws.

DaneMcCloud
12-30-2006, 11:42 AM
i wanna keep him ..... but not sure giving a 15 million dollar signing bonus to a 30+ year old tightend is such a good idea.

The thing about that is that the economics of the game dictate that Gonazales should receive this type of payday not only for future pay, but for past play as well.

If the economics of baseball had changed so much over the course of George Brett's career (which it didn't; it was after his career was over), don't you think the Royals would have paid him over market value, even at the late stage of his career?

crazycoffey
12-30-2006, 11:47 AM
I don't mind this for gonzo, he's been a good player and still is, deserving is a good word for this thread. I like that we keep some good players as chiefs all the way. I wish we would have with Donnie Edwards or Joe Horn, but shields and Gonzo are great options too.

I wish we wouldn't over pay some, like surtain and Law

Mr. Laz
12-30-2006, 11:59 AM
Clark may be alittle looser with purse strings.

Glad Gonzo is staying and will go OUT as A CHIEF.....
When he passes THannon THarp it will be sweet....

He is our only real passing weapon, and keeps D honest. So EK,Sammie can get throws.
agreed...

giving the money to tony isn't a huge issue ... but it's pretty risky.


in 2 years ... he could retire or really drop off production. Then we are gonna be stuck with a pretty big dead money hit.


15 million ...... that's big money.

crazycoffey
12-30-2006, 12:04 PM
agreed...

giving the money to tony isn't a huge issue ... but it's pretty risky.


in 2 years ... he could retire or really drop off production. Then we are gonna be stuck with a pretty big dead money hit.


15 million ...... that's big money.


didn't we spend more than that on Law???

Mecca
12-30-2006, 12:15 PM
didn't we spend more than that on Law???

No.......you have to look at the bonus and Laws contract is done in a way that they can get out of it after this year.

crazycoffey
12-30-2006, 12:19 PM
No.......you have to look at the bonus and Laws contract is done in a way that they can get out of it after this year.

so why wont the wording save money from gonzo if tony did decide to retire after two years

Mecca
12-30-2006, 12:20 PM
so why wont the wording save money from gonzo if tony did decide to retire after two years

That's not where we run the risk....we run the risk that it's likely going to be done in a way where if he does decline we'll have a highly paid unproductive player on our roster that we can't cut without taking a huge hit.

Mr. Laz
12-30-2006, 01:14 PM
so why wont the wording save money from gonzo if tony did decide to retire after two years
i suppose it could ..... but if we actually give Tony a 15 million dollar signing bonus then we are pretty much stuck.

i believe Law received a 2-tiered signing bonus

some up front ..... another chunk next year.


iirc Law's contract was really a 1/2 year deal with an option for big money after that.


i doubt Gonzo accepts a deal like that. But if he does, then all the better.

Mecca
12-30-2006, 01:15 PM
i suppose it could ..... but if we actually give Tony a 15 million dollar signing bonus then we are pretty much stuck.

i believe Law received a 2-tiered signing bonus

some up front ..... another chunk next year.


iirc Law's contract was really a 1/2 year deal with an option for big money after that.


i doubt Gonzo accepts a deal like that. But if he does, then all the better.

Tom Condon is laughing at you at this moment.

the Talking Can
12-30-2006, 01:19 PM
Tom Condon is laughing at you at this moment.

let me guess, you're on the phone with him....giving him some tips...#1 sleep in a Holiday Inn.....

crazycoffey
12-30-2006, 01:20 PM
That's not where we run the risk....we run the risk that it's likely going to be done in a way where if he does decline we'll have a highly paid unproductive player on our roster that we can't cut without taking a huge hit.

I don't think his decline is a problem, he has alot of heart and over the last couple years played with some nagging injuries. If he can walk, he'll go out and play. Two years from now he will still be a great TE, He has really worked on his blocking too. He's the type of player we want to give these contracts to.

Other teams could do better by following this example, ie not giving lots of money to the TO's of the league

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Laz
i suppose it could ..... but if we actually give Tony a 15 million dollar signing bonus then we are pretty much stuck.

i believe Law received a 2-tiered signing bonus

some up front ..... another chunk next year.


iirc Law's contract was really a 1/2 year deal with an option for big money after that.


i doubt Gonzo accepts a deal like that. But if he does, then all the better.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, then let him go, I like law, but not worth the $$$

FringeNC
12-30-2006, 01:34 PM
Signing 30-year old+ players to big contracts (excluding QBs and OL) is not the way to succeed in the NFL...

It's not like Carl would use the money well in other uses, so what the hell, I guess it's a good signing FOR CARL.

Chiefs Pantalones
12-30-2006, 01:37 PM
Is Ty Law going to be back next year?

Brock
12-30-2006, 01:39 PM
Rewarding guys who actually earned the money is a good idea.

crazycoffey
12-30-2006, 01:40 PM
Signing 30-year old+ players to big contracts (excluding QBs and OL) is not the way to succeed in the NFL...

It's not like Carl would use the money well in other uses, so what the hell, I guess it's a good signing FOR CARL.


Didn't shields sign a big contract over the age of 30?

this year didn't the ravens sign an over the hill 30 year old quarterback?

Shoot wasn't roaf over the hill when we signed him too?

Yeah your right, no one has success with 30+ year olds


besides the point I was making, I don't think its a waste, he is still good and the organization owes it to him. He's always gone over and beyond the average Players integrity on and off the field which is the other side of why he deserves it. done more often and maybe more players would strive to be better people and players

FringeNC
12-30-2006, 01:42 PM
Didn't shields sign a big contract over the age of 30?

this year didn't the ravens sign an over the hill 30 year old quarterback?

Shoot wasn't roaf over the hill when we signed him too?

Yeah your right, no one has success with 30+ year olds


besides the point I was making, I don't think its a waste, he is still good and the organization owes it to him. He's always gone over and beyond the average Players integrity on and off the field which is the other side of why he deserves it. done more often and maybe more players would strive to be better people and players

I think I made an exception for QBs and OL, two position where huge drop-offs in production don't occur with age.

wazu
12-30-2006, 01:45 PM
All this Tony G. contract talk brings back the memories. I thought I remembered making some comics back in the days when Tony was playing basketball and having a bizarre negotiation process a few summers ago. I managed to dig them up. (One is edited since I think it got me in trouble last time.)

Anyway, I can barely even remember all the references and what they mean, but it's easier to just post them than to make new ones.

crazycoffey
12-30-2006, 01:47 PM
I think I made an exception for QBs and OL, two position where huge drop-offs in production don't occur with age.


my bag, I somehow read including, not excluding, damn it sucks getting old.

I still say it's not that bad for TG, I believe in integrity business model over "it's just a business", for new players coming in, they have something to play for, besides just running out for the biggest buck

But I am a self diagnosed optimist, even after repeated kicks in the nutz by the chiefs (and MU, see yesterday's bowl thread)

wazu
12-30-2006, 01:48 PM
.

wazu
12-30-2006, 01:48 PM
..

crazycoffey
12-30-2006, 01:49 PM
All this Tony G. contract talk brings back the memories. I thought I remembered making some comics back in the days when Tony was playing basketball and having a bizarre negotiation process a few summers ago. I managed to dig them up. (One is edited since I think it got me in trouble last time.)

Anyway, I can barely even remember all the references and what they mean, but it's easier to just post them than to make new ones.


could only see the first one, but it was mildly funny

crazycoffey
12-30-2006, 01:50 PM
I should just be more patient

greg63
12-30-2006, 01:53 PM
I hope LJ and Tony G were in the negotiation meetings at the same time.

Tony G earned his salary. If LJ wants a shitload more, then he's going to need to be patient.

Until they get Nacho Holmes completely off the payroll.

Patience is not part of LJ's repertoire.

Coogs
12-30-2006, 02:14 PM
Without reading the rest of the posts, what happened to the part about Gonzo wanting to play for a winner? This team appears to be a ways away from contending for the playoffs, much less the Super Bowl.

Coogs
12-30-2006, 02:23 PM
An addition to my last post. I don't consider the chance to make the playoffs tomorrow to be very real. And a sweep this year of the NFC West, Oakland Raiders, and home wins over San Diego and Denver does not really shout out to me that we are almost there. Being swept by the AFC Central and losing to Miami along with road losses to the Bolts and Broncs says a whole lot more to me on how far we have to go to be a contender. With possibly the oldest team in the NFL, this team is going backwards IMO.

crazycoffey
12-30-2006, 02:36 PM
An addition to my last post. I don't consider the chance to make the playoffs tomorrow to be very real. And a sweep this year of the NFC West, Oakland Raiders, and home wins over San Diego and Denver does not really shout out to me that we are almost there. Being swept by the AFC Central and losing to Miami along with road losses to the Bolts and Broncs says a whole lot more to me on how far we have to go to be a contender. With possibly the oldest team in the NFL, this team is going backwards IMO.

Finally, a refreshing perspective on the chiefs problems! (please note this is meant to be sarcastic, since most of you don't know me)

I know they have let us down many times, but it's a very competitive league and there are many many good teams and players. We've been pretty consistant over the years (I already see the post reply to that statement "consistantly bad") and done a pretty good job of trying to get good players, and let bad players go, it's a continuing process and never easy, not even for NE, they just have finished games and won.

I think we could do worse than having Carl do what he's done. I think we could do much worse than having Herm as a coach. I've said it and I'll stand behind it, even if I'm the only one on this site to do so.

I like venting some about being dissapointed, but damn, this site is full of naysayers. I really hate that. Let's get some good vibes going too, I'm getting sick of all the bitching.

milkman
12-30-2006, 02:42 PM
Finally, a refreshing perspective on the chiefs problems! (please note this is meant to be sarcastic, since most of you don't know me)

I know they have let us down many times, but it's a very competitive league and there are many many good teams and players. We've been pretty consistant over the years (I already see the post reply to that statement "consistantly bad") and done a pretty good job of trying to get good players, and let bad players go, it's a continuing process and never easy, not even for NE, they just have finished games and won.

I think we could do worse than having Carl do what he's done. I think we could do much than having Herm as a coach. I've said it and I'll stand behind it, even if I'm the only one on this site to do so.

I like venting some about being dissapointed, but damn, this site is full of naysayers. I really hate that. Let's get some good vibes going too, I'm getting sick of all the bitching.

I disagree with Coog's contention that this team is going backwards.
I agree with you.

This team is consistent.
Not consistently bad.

Consistently mediocre.

We're in a "Groundhog Day" mode.

We are always competitive, to an extent, never moving backwards, but also never moving forward.

Sure-Oz
12-30-2006, 02:45 PM
This team has always had the potential to go all the way or just choke before the season is over. Same story every year.

crazycoffey
12-30-2006, 02:54 PM
I disagree with Coog's contention that this team is going backwards.
I agree with you.

This team is consistent.
Not consistently bad.

Consistently mediocre.

We're in a "Groundhog Day" mode.

We are always competitive, to an extent, never moving backwards, but also never moving forward.

Don't you still get excited at the beginning of the season and enjoy watching the teams win?

It's just to me that the enjoyment I get is still outweighing the dissapointment of not making the playoffs.

I guess it's just every thread everyother response is a negative comment about some aspect of the chiefs play, draft, coaching, front office, etc

And don't get me wrong, I agree the last two years we seem stuck in neurtral, but I think the team improved on paper this year. The wins just didn't happen, so what it's a game and life goes on. Let's say were disappointed, but let's also say what we are doing right and how great it was that we did well.

Fact is the majority (16 teams in the AFC and only 6 go to the show, majority sit out) of the teams can't make the playoffs, some suck, see oakland, but last year being 10-6 and this year if we finish 9-7 these seasons should be seen in some positive light because they are winning seasons.

If you're so ready to give up on the Chiefs, Herm, CP that you will drink antifreeze (for example), then give up and leave the site, go root for SD with the other bandwagoneers, there's just been too much of it, and it rubbed me the wrong way.

beavis
12-30-2006, 02:58 PM
This team has always had the potential to go all the way or just choke before the season is over. Same story every year.
When exactly did we have the potential to go all the way?

crazycoffey
12-30-2006, 03:03 PM
When exactly did we have the potential to go all the way?

Potential???? Every year, nimrod

Reality??? Play the odds

the Talking Can
12-30-2006, 03:03 PM
If you're so ready to give up on the Chiefs, Herm, CP that you will drink antifreeze (for example), then give up and leave the site, go root for SD with the other bandwagoneers, there's just been too much of it, and it rubbed me the wrong way.

ROFL

noob said bandwagoneers

I have turds that have been a fan longer than you.

the Talking Can
12-30-2006, 03:04 PM
When exactly did we have the potential to go all the way?

never

crazycoffey
12-30-2006, 03:06 PM
ROFL

noob said bandwagoneers

I have turds that have been a fan longer than you.


can you even pronounce it?

I didn't want to say band wagoners, I wanted the eers (pronounced like ears) at the end, because I like how that sounds more.

Take your noob and shove it up you turd hole

Sure-Oz
12-30-2006, 03:08 PM
When exactly did we have the potential to go all the way?
Probably not since the year we lost to the Colts but everyyear we pretty much are hyped into going all the way and just make short of the playoffs....quite sad. I think Montana's team was teh only one that had real potential.....:(

PinkFloyd
12-30-2006, 03:24 PM
Tony will be the highest paid blocking TE in history !!! He will have 10 catches next year and 100 yards recieving !!!

With this line --- he's going to be blocking allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll day !!!

RINGLEADER
12-30-2006, 04:08 PM
If Tony accepts $15mm + $5mm per year then I'm fine with it as the salary cap hit would probably end up being spread out over 5-7 years ($2mm - $3mm per year) plus "modest" salaries of around $1mm - $3mm for the first three or four years.

Chief Roundup
12-30-2006, 04:20 PM
Wonder if $15 mil is the most garranteed ever by the Chiefs.
Man if Tony gets 15
makes me wonder what LJ and Allen are going to get and then what we will have left to use in FA?

Coogs
12-30-2006, 07:12 PM
and it rubbed me the wrong way.

Sorry dude! Didn't mean to rub you the wrong way. I've been a fan of the Chiefs since the late 60'. (Yes, I am an old timer) I'm ready for a change. A major shake-up. Sometimes you have to blow something up and start over. I'm ready. We have rode the same horse for a long time, and it wasn't a bad ride. We blew our chance with this team a couple of years back.

We are an old football team at a lot of major positions. That is not bitching or anything remotly close to that. That is just a fact. And just because I don't see wins over Oakland and the NFC West as something really positive, I enjoyed the wins none the less.

But I am ready. Ready for the excitement of the rebuild on something that is broke. If it ain't broke, you don't fix it. But I have been around a lot of years, and I see this thing being very close to broke.

Again, sorry to rub you wrong. And I don't post here much anymore. Mostly just discuss stuff with a few of the old regulars like Milkman and Chiefnj to name a couple.

htismaqe
12-30-2006, 08:55 PM
Tony will be the highest paid blocking TE in history !!! He will have 10 catches next year and 100 yards recieving !!!

With this line --- he's going to be blocking allllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll day !!!

That's why he's having one of his best seasons in the last half-decade...

milkman
12-30-2006, 09:17 PM
Don't you still get excited at the beginning of the season and enjoy watching the teams win?

It's just to me that the enjoyment I get is still outweighing the dissapointment of not making the playoffs.

I guess it's just every thread everyother response is a negative comment about some aspect of the chiefs play, draft, coaching, front office, etc

And don't get me wrong, I agree the last two years we seem stuck in neurtral, but I think the team improved on paper this year. The wins just didn't happen, so what it's a game and life goes on. Let's say were disappointed, but let's also say what we are doing right and how great it was that we did well.

Fact is the majority (16 teams in the AFC and only 6 go to the show, majority sit out) of the teams can't make the playoffs, some suck, see oakland, but last year being 10-6 and this year if we finish 9-7 these seasons should be seen in some positive light because they are winning seasons.

If you're so ready to give up on the Chiefs, Herm, CP that you will drink antifreeze (for example), then give up and leave the site, go root for SD with the other bandwagoneers, there's just been too much of it, and it rubbed me the wrong way.

The last two years we have been stuck in neutral?

Hell, each of the 18 years of the Carl era are like that video dome that you walk into, they run some film, and make you feel like you are actually riding a roller coaster, or out of control train, or helicoptor, or other rides.
But when it's all over, the reality is that you haven't moved.

That's the Chiefs.
We've been fooled into believing that we've been on a ride for 18 years, but at the end of the season, we are exactly where we started out at the onset of the season.