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View Full Version : Jaws picks Jared Allen as NFL Defensive POY.


|Zach|
01-01-2007, 09:36 PM
I know its not an official award but...

That was surprising.

John_Locke
01-01-2007, 09:38 PM
watching the talking heads jump back on the Chiefs bandwagon!!!

poor Peyton must be all upset

rad
01-01-2007, 09:38 PM
Get the net!

Ultra Peanut
01-01-2007, 09:38 PM
Wow.

Short Leash Hootie
01-01-2007, 09:39 PM
What? That's dumb.

Really, really dumb.

Rain Man
01-01-2007, 09:40 PM
The contract that the Chiefs gave Jaworski his last couple of years in the league was the best p.r. investment the Chiefs ever made.

tk13
01-01-2007, 09:40 PM
Somewhere, Carl Peterson's like "shut up! SHUT UP!"

Pierce
01-01-2007, 09:41 PM
didn't Jaws pick Brian Urlacher on Sunday morning? I thought I watched him do that.....huh

oh well

|Zach|
01-01-2007, 09:43 PM
didn't Jaws pick Brian Urlacher on Sunday morning? I thought I watched him do that.....huh

oh well
It may have been worded defensive MVP. I can't remember.

siberian khatru
01-01-2007, 09:43 PM
No way.

mikey23545
01-01-2007, 09:43 PM
I like the Chiefs, I like Allen, and I like Jaws, but that is just asinine...

Short Leash Hootie
01-01-2007, 09:44 PM
Jared Allen was probably the Chiefs DPOY, but the leagues?! Are you kidding me?

the Talking Can
01-01-2007, 09:44 PM
idiot

|Zach|
01-01-2007, 09:44 PM
Ditka picked Merriman.

HemiEd
01-01-2007, 09:45 PM
Somewhere, Carl Peterson's like "shut up! SHUT UP!"

ROFL

Short Leash Hootie
01-01-2007, 09:46 PM
I'd say Merriman if it wasn't for the ROIDS, but because of that, it would have to be Jason Taylor or Champ Bailey IMHO.

Basileus777
01-01-2007, 09:49 PM
Bailey deserves it. Not only did he shut down practically everyone he covered this year, he was also great against the run. Plus all those interceptions, particularly the ones in the red zone.

JBucc
01-01-2007, 09:49 PM
Him and Ditka just picked us to win. This whole underdog thing isn't going to work if everyone expects us to win.

chop
01-01-2007, 09:50 PM
Ditka picked Merriman.


The guy was caught cheating. Why do so many people want to give him this award? I don't care if he did play without testing positive the last few games he is a cheater and that should automatically eliminate him from consideration.

Count Alex's Wins
01-01-2007, 09:51 PM
It's because Allen had a more complete season this year. He didn't have the flashy sack numbers, but teams passed less against us. Allen had an outstanding season against the run, man he was a beast.

KCJohnny
01-01-2007, 09:53 PM
I know its not an official award but...

That was surprising.

Jared is this team's MVP. We are 4-12 without his constant disruptions, collapsing the pocket, his sacks, hurries, batted balls (a LOT of those!), forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, tackles, interceptions - *whew* this guy does it ALL. Well deserved, and I trust Jaws.

NFL16
01-01-2007, 09:54 PM
Him and Ditka just picked us to win. This whole underdog thing isn't going to work if everyone expects us to win.


Yeah, I saw that. I would personally like for the Chiefs to be the underdogs as well.

Chief Roundup
01-01-2007, 09:54 PM
There is no way that Merriman should get it because he tested positive for performance enhancing drugs.
If he does get it it is just like saying to everyone that it is ok to use even if you get caught.
Yes I know that probably the most players use some type of performance enhancing drugs but just don't get caught.

Short Leash Hootie
01-01-2007, 09:55 PM
It's because Allen had a more complete season this year. He didn't have the flashy sack numbers, but teams passed less against us. Allen had an outstanding season against the run, man he was a beast.
No one is questioning the greatness of Jared Allen and the season he had...but he simply isn't even close to being DPOY.

the Talking Can
01-01-2007, 09:56 PM
I agree Allen is underrated, and he has become a good run stopper which is rare at DE......but Bailey, for example, shuts down almost half the field....I think you have to give it to him or Taylor in Miami...

thedude
01-01-2007, 09:57 PM
I think if he isn't in the top tier, he certainly would be in the second tier of players on defense.

That definitely qualifies as close.

Short Leash Hootie
01-01-2007, 09:58 PM
Jared is this team's MVP. We are 4-12 without his constant disruptions, collapsing the pocket, his sacks, hurries, batted balls (a LOT of those!), forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, tackles, interceptions - *whew* this guy does it ALL. Well deserved, and I trust Jaws.
ROFL

Larry...

JOHNSON

Redcoats58
01-01-2007, 09:58 PM
I agree Allen is underrated, and he has become a good run stopper which is rare at DE......but Bailey, for example, shuts down almost half the field....I think you have to give it to him or Taylor in Miami...
Well he did state that part of the reason for the choice is because we are a playoff team.

KCJohnny
01-01-2007, 10:07 PM
ROFL

Larry...

JOHNSON

Laugh all ya want, you have Damon Huard as your MVP in your avatar...

ROFL

Brock
01-01-2007, 10:09 PM
Allen disappears too much. Adalius Thomas is more deserving for sure.

tk13
01-01-2007, 10:11 PM
Allen has had a great year. I'd like to see what he did next to a great DT, he'd be a monster. He already is really. He doesn't have huge sack numbers but he's very balanced, does a lot of things.

According to stats, inc... who gives ESPN.com their stats, he finished with 76 tackles, 7.5 sacks, 3 forced fumbles, 10 passes defensed... and also 11 "stuffs", which is basically tackles for loss that weren't sacks. That's pretty impressive, I think that leads the league. It's not an official stat but I couldn't find anybody on any of the playoff teams that has more. Merriman had 3, Taylor had 6.5.

BigRock
01-01-2007, 10:12 PM
Well he did state that part of the reason for the choice is because we are a playoff team.
Yeah, he said he wants his POY in the playoffs, which eliminates Bailey and Taylor. And he DQ'd Merriman because of the 'roids.

Still, picking Jared Allen over someone like Urlacher is kind of a stretch. Dikita didn't act like Jaws was crazy or anything, though. Then again, Ditka may not even know who Jared Allen is, so he wouldn't be in a position to argue against him.

the Talking Can
01-01-2007, 10:16 PM
Allen has had a great year. I'd like to see what he did next to a great DT, he'd be a monster. He already is really. He doesn't have huge sack numbers but he's very balanced, does a lot of things.

According to stats, inc... who gives ESPN.com their stats, he finished with 76 tackles, 7.5 sacks, 3 forced fumbles, 10 passes defensed... and also 11 "stuffs", which is basically tackles for loss that weren't sacks. That's pretty impressive, I think that leads the league. It's not an official stat but I couldn't find anybody on any of the playoff teams that has more. Merriman had 3, Taylor had 6.5.

he's a complete DE....most are good at one thing....people don't give him near enough credit for run support, they just look at sack stats...

Short Leash Hootie
01-01-2007, 10:16 PM
Laugh all ya want, you have Damon Huard as your MVP in your avatar...

ROFL
Damon Huard should be the MVP of the league, not the Chiefs.

milkman
01-01-2007, 10:20 PM
he's a complete DE....most are good at one thing....people don't give him near enough credit for run support, they just look at sack stats...

He wasn't this kind of complete DE in his first couple of years.

Gotta give it up to him for working himself into one.

But he isn't DPOY.

|Zach|
01-01-2007, 10:21 PM
Sitting back thinking about Tamba and Jared. I can't help but feel lucky with our players at that position.

Halfcan
01-01-2007, 10:24 PM
Allen had a great year, but I think he has beter ones in him still left.

CoMoChief
01-01-2007, 10:29 PM
Yeah, I saw that. I would personally like for the Chiefs to be the underdogs as well.


I personally don't believe in underdogs. I dont think anyone on the Chiefs organization will look at that anyways. We all know Indy is a great team and that it will take just about a perfect game from us to beat them. I say we lose unless we get a take away or two.

shyguyms
01-01-2007, 10:30 PM
as long as he cant stop drinking and driving

CoMoChief
01-01-2007, 10:30 PM
Sitting back thinking about Tamba and Jared. I can't help but feel lucky with our players at that position.

And to think what it would be like if we had pressure from the interior linemen. Bell wouldn't suck in coverage so much thats for sure.

KcMizzou
01-01-2007, 10:31 PM
Sitting back thinking about Tamba and Jared. I can't help but feel lucky with our players at that position.Gotta agree. I honestly expected Allen to fall off a bit. A year or two ago, I figured he was just the best guy on a horrible D. He's getting better and better.

I expect Tamba will do the same, mainly because of all the talk about his "motor"... "heart" etc. He just strikes me as the kind of guy who will work his ass of to get better. (And he's already pretty damned good)

Fruit Ninja
01-01-2007, 10:40 PM
It's because Allen had a more complete season this year. He didn't have the flashy sack numbers, but teams passed less against us. Allen had an outstanding season against the run, man he was a beast.
Allen is now a complete Defensive end. He can fight off the block and make the tckle, he can sack. He tips ALOT of passes. he creates turnovers, he recovers fumbles. He had a pretty damn good season. He just didnt have the Big sack numbers. He had alot of almosts though, but we all know they dont count.

Mr. Kotter
01-01-2007, 10:42 PM
Sitting back thinking about Tamba and Jared. I can't help but feel lucky with our players at that position.They are great "bookends" and will be for a long time....if CP can keep them together.

Too bad the "books" they are bookending are the equivalent to "Green Eggs and Ham" and "See Spot Run." :banghead:



:deevee:

Count Alex's Wins
01-01-2007, 10:44 PM
I bet no one thought Hali would lead the Chiefs in sacks this year.

dirk digler
01-01-2007, 10:49 PM
Jaws is stupid. I think it should be either Taylor or Champ. You can throw Adelphius(sp) Thomas in there as well.

Mr. Kotter
01-01-2007, 10:52 PM
Jaws is stupid. I think it should be either Taylor or Champ. You can throw Adelphius(sp) Thomas in there as well.
I think that is a bit over the top....Allen is certainly, the Chief's MVP on Defense.....which, at least, puts him into consideration.

But, yeah, the three you mention are more deserving.

dirk digler
01-01-2007, 10:55 PM
I think that is a bit over the top....Allen is certainly, the Chief's MVP on Defense.....which, at least, puts him into consideration.

But, yeah, the three you mention are more deserving.

Cmon Jared Allen is not even in the top 30 in sacks. In order to be a D MVP you have to be top 1-2 in something. Hali or DJ is probably the Chiefs D MVP.

Rain Man
01-01-2007, 10:56 PM
Just FYI, based on nfl.com's statistics, when comparing ALL defensive linemen in the league, including both tackles and ends, Jared Allen ranked:

5th in "combined tackles" (??? - what does this mean") with 77 (The leaders were Aaron Kampman with 89, Ty Warren with 84, and Justin Smith with 81.)

1st in total tackles with 65 (The next highest were Aaron Kampman with 59 and Bryan Thomas with 58.)

1st in solo tackles with 60 (The next highest were Leonard Little with 49 and Justin Smith with 44.)

21st (tie) in sacks, with 7.5 (The leaders were Aaron Kampman with 15.5, Aaron Schobel with 14.5, and Jason Taylor with 13.5.)

1st in recovered fumbles with 6 (The next highest was 3, by 11 players)

1st in passes defensed with 11 (The next highest were Jason Taylor with 10 and Terrell Suggs and Richard Seymour with 8)

9th (tie) in forced fumbles with 3 (Leaders - Jason Taylor with 9 and Leonard Little with 7)

5th (tie) in interceptions with 1 (15 DL had 1 interception, while 4 had 2 - Jason Taylor, Mathias Kiwanuka, Alex Brown, and Fred Robbins)



How did he not make the pro bowl?

It could also be argued that he was as valuable as any defensive linemen in the league. Here's a roll call of the top statistical producers, which includes everyone who ranked in the top five in tackles, solo tackles, sacks, passes defensed, or forced fumbles. (It includes the top four in fumble recoveries, but there's a whole mess of guys tied for fifth in that category. It doesn't include the top five interceptors for the same reason.)

Jared Allen: 65 tackles, 40 solo, 7.5 sacks, 11 passes defensed, 3 forced fumbles, 6 fumble recoveries, 1 interception

Aaron Kampman: 59 tackles, 43 solo, 15.5 sacks, 0 passes defensed, 3 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Aaron Schobel: 35 tackles, 23 solo, 14 sacks, 3 passes defensed, 3 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Ty Warren: 56 tackles, 25 solo, 7.5 sacks, 4 passes defensed, 1 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Justin Smith: 50 tackles, 44 solo, 7.5 sacks, 3 passes defensed, 1 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Leonard Little: 55 tackles, 49 solo, 13 sacks, 2 passes defensed, 7 forced fumbles, 0 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Jason Taylor: 40 tackles, 36 solo, 13.5 sacks, 10 passes defensed, 9 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries, 2 interceptions

Bryan Thomas: 58 tackles, 40 solo, 8.5 sacks, 0 passes defensed, 1 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Trevor Pryce: 37 tackles, 27 solo, 13 sacks, 2 passes defensed, 2 forced fumbles, 0 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Julius Peppers: 48 tackles, 43 solo, 13 sacks, 6 passes defensed, 3 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Richard Seymour: 22 tackles, 13 solo, 4 sacks, 8 passes defensed, 0 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recoveries, 1 interceptions

Dewayne White: 33 tackles, 23 solo, 5 sacks, 7 passes defensed, 3 forced fumbles, 3 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Kevin Williams: 28 tackles, 21 solo, 5 sacks, 7 passes defensed, 0 forced fumbles, 3 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Chike Okeafor: 41 tackles, 34 solo, 7 sacks, 8.5 passes defensed, 2 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Tamba Hali: 40 tackles, 37 solo, 8 sacks, 2 passes defensed, 5 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recoveries, 1 interceptions

Dwight Freeney: 26 tackles, 20 solo, 5.5 sacks, 3 passes defensed, 4 forced fumbles, 0 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Robert Mathis: 50 tackles, 34 solo, 9.5 sacks, 3 passes defensed, 4 forced fumbles, 2 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

John Abraham: 15 tackles, 12 solo, 4 sacks, 1 passes defensed, 4 forced fumbles, 0 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Mark Anderson: 23 tackles, 20 solo, 12 sacks, 2 passes defensed, 4 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions

Simeon Rice: 14 tackles, 10 solo, 2 sacks, 2 passes defensed, 4 forced fumbles, 0 fumble recoveries, 0 interceptions


Using an admittedly arbitrary points scale, I awarded each of these guys points based on their stats, as shown below. While it shows Jason Taylor being first in the league among defensive linemen, Allen edges out Leonard Little for second, and Allen's drinking never killed anyone.

Interestingly, Tamba Hali ends up being ranked 7th, ahead of Mark Anderson.



Points 1 2 8 6 12 8 12
Tackles Solo Sacks Passes Defensed FF FR Int Total
Taylor 40 36 13.5 10 9 2 2 428
Allen 65 40 7.5 11 3 6 1 367
Little 55 49 13 2 7 0 0 353
Peppers 48 43 13 6 3 2 0 326
Kampman 59 43 15.5 0 3 1 0 313
Mathis 50 34 9.5 3 4 2 0 276
Hali 40 37 8 2 5 1 1 270
Okeafor 41 34 7 8.5 2 2 0 256
Schobel 35 23 14 3 3 1 0 255
Smith 50 44 7.5 3 1 2 0 244
Pryce 37 27 13 2 2 0 0 231
Anderson 23 20 12 2 4 1 0 227
Thomas 58 40 8.5 0 1 1 0 226
White 33 23 5 7 3 3 0 221
Warren 56 25 7.5 4 1 1 0 210
Williams 28 21 5 7 0 3 0 176
Freeney 26 20 5.5 3 4 0 0 176
Seymour 22 13 4 8 0 1 1 148
Abraham 15 12 4 1 4 0 0 125
Rice 14 10 2 2 4 0 0 110

Guru
01-01-2007, 10:58 PM
Bailey deserves it. Not only did he shut down practically everyone he covered this year, he was also great against the run. Plus all those interceptions, particularly the ones in the red zone.
If I hear one more game analyst say " I don't know why any quarterback would ever throw to his (Bailey's) side of the field."

:shake: Stupid comment. Yeah, take away half of your offense by choice just because Champ is over there. I seriously doubt OCs do that. They change the game plan to prepare for him but they don't throw out half of the playbook just to avoid him.

dirk digler
01-01-2007, 10:59 PM
Interesting stats Rain Man and I stand corrected.

Your sack stat is wrong. Tamba is 26th with 8

IMVHO it is all about sacks for DE. Nothing else matters.

Rain Man
01-01-2007, 11:02 PM
To be honest, I was surprised at how highly Jared ranked in several categories. I think based on these, he's the best defensive lineman in the league on a playoff team. Jaws' claim isn't as surprising as it seemed before I started that.

Hali's high ranking pleases me, too.

Just FYI, it's possible that a lineman is left out of that analysis if he ranked in the top ten in every category, but never in the top five. I think that's unlikely to have happened, though.

crazycoffey
01-01-2007, 11:03 PM
How did he not make the pro bowl?

[/code]


That's easy, Carl pulled some strings after all it's a contract year.

dirk digler
01-01-2007, 11:04 PM
You can't be D MVP if you are a DE and you don't lead your own team in sacks

Rain Man
01-01-2007, 11:09 PM
Interesting stats Rain Man and I stand corrected.

Your sack stat is wrong. Tamba is 26th with 8

IMVHO it is all about sacks for DE. Nothing else matters.

I dunno about the sack stuff. I'm using the NFL site at http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort/NFL/DL-TACKLES/2006/regular?&_3:col_1=12&_3:col_2=9 , which shows Hali at 19th (tied) and Allen at 21st (tied), but the site also says that it may not be the latest official stats.

I agree that sacks are the defining criteria, a philosophy that I don't necessarily agree with. Sacks are undoubtedly big plays, but a blocked pass is almost the same outcome as a sack other than a little yardage and a quarterback on his back, and no one pays attention to that stat at all. And having seen Allen run down Najeh Davenport and play sideline to sideline all year, I'm starting to think that total tackles and solo tackles are underrated, too.

Mr. Kotter
01-01-2007, 11:11 PM
Interesting stats Rain Man and I stand corrected.

Your sack stat is wrong. Tamba is 26th with 8

IMVHO it is all about sacks for DE. Nothing else matters.Well, I hope all the voters in the HOF, for DT, are like you....because, in terms other than 'sacks,' DT was not very "accomplished."

I just LOVE the idea of a DE....who, on one play can knock the snot out of QB, and rip a fumble, and recover it.....BUT, who can, on other plays, actually play the "run" or the "pass" when they need to.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE what "DT" did for this town; but Jarred is carving a special place as a DE in this league....LOOK at his overall stats. Even guys like Freeney and Peppers aren't the "complete" DE that Allen is becoming.....IMHO.

Fish
01-01-2007, 11:11 PM
To be honest, I was surprised at how highly Jared ranked in several categories. I think based on these, he's the best defensive lineman in the league on a playoff team. Jaws' claim isn't as surprising as it seemed before I started that.



You realize Allen is gonna print off your post above and put it on Carl's desk during contract negotiations now......

Count Alex's Wins
01-01-2007, 11:11 PM
IMVHO it is all about sacks for DE. Nothing else matters.

I think you are completely off-base with this comment. Especially considering the job of a 3-4 DE.

|Zach|
01-01-2007, 11:12 PM
Thanks for your work as always Kevin.

dirk digler
01-01-2007, 11:13 PM
I dunno about the sack stuff. I'm using the NFL site at http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort/NFL/DL-TACKLES/2006/regular?&_3:col_1=12&_3:col_2=9 , which shows Hali at 19th (tied) and Allen at 21st (tied), but the site also says that it may not be the latest official stats.

I agree that sacks are the defining criteria, a philosophy that I don't necessarily agree with. Sacks are undoubtedly big plays, but a blocked pass is almost the same outcome as a sack other than a little yardage and a quarterback on his back, and no one pays attention to that stat at all. And having seen Allen run down Najeh Davenport and play sideline to sideline all year, I'm starting to think that total tackles and solo tackles are underrated, too.


http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/SCKS/2006/regular

1 Shawne Merriman SD 17 62
2 Aaron Kampman GB 15.5 89
3 Aaron Schobel BUF 14 53
4 Jason Taylor MIA 13.5 60
5 Trevor Pryce BAL 13 47
6 Julius Peppers CAR 13 57
7 Leonard Little STL 13 58
8 Mark Anderson CHI 12 28
9 Shaun Phillips SD 11.5 65
10 DeMarcus Ware DAL 11.5 71
11 Adalius Thomas BAL 11 83
12 Kamerion Wimbley CLE 11 62
13 Derrick Burgess OAK 11 50
14 Robert Geathers CIN 10.5 42
15 Will Smith NO 10.5 49
16 Bobby McCray JAC 10 35
17 Warren Sapp OAK 10 47
18 Julian Peterson SEA 10 89
19 Robert Mathis IND 9.5 65
20 Bart Scott BAL 9.5 103
21 Terrell Suggs BAL 9.5 64
22 Rosevelt Colvin NE 8.5 53
23 Bryan Thomas NYJ 8.5 77
24 Elvis Dumervil DEN 8.5 17
25 Chike Okeafor ARI 8.5 52
26 Tamba Hali KC 8 57
27 Trent Cole PHI 8 62
28 Karlos Dansby ARI 8 80
29 Cory Redding DET 8 47
30 Jarvis Green NE 7.5 33

dirk digler
01-01-2007, 11:16 PM
Well, I hope all the voters in the HOF, for DT, are like you....because, in terms other than 'sacks,' DT was not very "accomplished."

I just LOVE the idea of a DE....who, on one play can knock the snot out of QB, and rip a fumble, and recover it.....BUT, who can, on other plays, actually play the "run" or the "pass" when they need to.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE what "DT" did for this town; but Jarred is carving a special place as a DE in this league....LOOK at his overall stats. Even guys like Freeney and Peppers aren't the "complete" DE that Allen is becoming.....IMHO.

I agree I was just commenting on why he didn't make the Pro Bowl or why he doesn't get the recognition that he may deserve.

I was at the game yesterday and they single blocked Allen and double teamed or chipped on Hali. That says alot IMO.

I would take Peppers over Allen any day of the week.

Rain Man
01-01-2007, 11:17 PM
Ah. It looks like your list includes linebackers, while I'm only looking at defensive linemen. The weird thing, though, is that I would've expected a dozen or more linebackers to have 10+ sacks. Is it really just a handful?

Valiant
01-01-2007, 11:18 PM
I agree Allen is underrated, and he has become a good run stopper which is rare at DE......but Bailey, for example, shuts down almost half the field....I think you have to give it to him or Taylor in Miami...


I think it is just Champ Bailey in the running.. The guy had shit for a Dline for him, the guy just played balls to the wall this year and hardly made any mistakes...

Jason Taylor played great but Champ did everything on his own and won 4 games by himself...

dirk digler
01-01-2007, 11:18 PM
I think you are completely off-base with this comment. Especially considering the job of a 3-4 DE.

I didn't realize we play the 3-4.

Mr. Kotter
01-01-2007, 11:19 PM
In fairness to all the other DEs in the league, part of the reason Allen and Hali's "tackles" numbers look so good....is...

....because of the fact that our DTs are complete horseshit. :cuss::cuss::cuss:


I think it is just Champ Bailey in the running.. The guy had shit for a Dline for him, the guy just played balls to the wall this year and hardly made any mistakes...

Jason Taylor played great but Champ did everything on his own and won 4 games by himself...

I hate it when I agee with you..... :shake:

;)

dirk digler
01-01-2007, 11:19 PM
Ah. It looks like your list includes linebackers, while I'm only looking at defensive linemen. The weird thing, though, is that I would've expected a dozen or more linebackers to have 10+ sacks. Is it really just a handful?


Duh sorry my fault. I just posted the top sack leaders.

Count Alex's Wins
01-01-2007, 11:19 PM
I didn't realize we play the 3-4.

We don't. But your statement wasn't exclusive to the Chiefs.

dirk digler
01-01-2007, 11:20 PM
In fairness to all the other DEs in the league, part of the reason Allen and Hali's "tackles" numbers look so good....is...

....because of the fact that our DTs are complete horseshit. :cuss::cuss::cuss:

I agree totally

Count Alex's Wins
01-01-2007, 11:20 PM
In fairness to all the other DEs in the league, part of the reason Allen and Hali's "tackles" numbers look so good....is...

....because of the fact that our DTs are complete horseshit. :cuss::cuss::cuss:

Is that why Eric Hicks and Vonnie Holliday's tackles were always high?

dirk digler
01-01-2007, 11:20 PM
We don't. But your statement wasn't exclusive to the Chiefs.

Yes it was that is all I am talking about

Rain Man
01-01-2007, 11:23 PM
Is that why Eric Hicks and Vonnie Holliday's tackles were always high?


ROFL Don't forget Duane Clemons.


And gochiefs aims directly for the heart.

Mr. Kotter
01-01-2007, 11:23 PM
Is that why Eric Hicks and Vonnie Holliday's tackles were always high?

In part, no doubt. WHEN was the last decent, durable DT we've had....McGlockton (how laughable is that?)?

ROFL

cdcox
01-01-2007, 11:28 PM
Rain Man, curious to know how many points you gave for each tackle, sack, ff, etc. Very interesting summary.

Count Alex's Wins
01-01-2007, 11:31 PM
Yes it was that is all I am talking about

OK. You're still wrong. Here's why. If Allen doesn't make this play, LaMont Jordan is out the gate, or, at best, Greg Wesley tackles him for a five-yard gain.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/6039/allenlosskt4.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Count Alex's Wins
01-01-2007, 11:32 PM
In part, no doubt. L

I was making a joke. Their tackles weren't high. Allen and Hali are much better players.

Mr. Kotter
01-01-2007, 11:35 PM
I was making a joke. Their tackles weren't high. Allen and Hali are much better players.

I missed the sarcasm of your post. I agree though, Allen and Hali have motors like we haven't seen around arrowhead since DT....

Rain Man
01-01-2007, 11:36 PM
Rain Man, curious to know how many points you gave for each tackle, sack, ff, etc. Very interesting summary.

It's very arbitrary, and I'll include the spreadsheet so others can mess around with it if they want. Just change the numbers on the top line.

I went with:

1 point for a tackle

2 points for a solo tackle (probably overcounted since they're included in tackles, too)

6 points for a pass defensed, since it's a down-killer

8 points for a sack, under the premise that it's the same outcome as a pass defense, but with some loss of yardage. (This doesn't account for the fact that a sack may mean that you're applying pressure on more downs, since pressures aren't a reported sack on the NFL site.)

8 points for a fumble recovery. This was hard to rate, because getting a turnover is huge, but could also involve a lot of luck and you didn't necessarily cause the turnover

12 points for a forced fumble or interception. This to me is the most important stat, because you're causing a turnover or potential turnover.

dirk digler
01-01-2007, 11:37 PM
OK. You're still wrong. Here's why. If Allen doesn't make this play, LaMont Jordan is out the gate, or, at best, Greg Wesley tackles him for a five-yard gain.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/6039/allenlosskt4.gif (http://imageshack.us)

By your video Bell is right there. That is what LBer's are for.

KCJohnny
01-01-2007, 11:38 PM
In part, no doubt. WHEN was the last decent, durable DT we've had....McGlockton (how laughable is that?)?

ROFL

Laugh all you want about Glock, the 2000 Chiefs had FIFTY-FOUR (54) sacks, 2nd in the AFC. Compare that to ANY D in the Vermiel/Edwards era...

Rain Man
01-01-2007, 11:40 PM
My theory is that Allen and Hali have good tackle numbers because they play sideline to sideline and are very, very active. Also, it helps each of them if the other one is forcing fumbles and making the quarterback step to their side. Two good defensive ends are more than twice as good as one good defensive end.

patteeu
01-01-2007, 11:41 PM
Sitting back thinking about Tamba and Jared. I can't help but feel lucky with our players at that position.

That's not luck, that's Carl Peterson. He takes so much crap around here for his draft misses, he deserves some praise for his successes.

dirk digler
01-01-2007, 11:42 PM
That's not luck, that's Carl Peterson. He takes so much crap around here for his draft misses, he deserves some praise for his successes.

Why do you defend CP so much?

Count Alex's Wins
01-01-2007, 11:44 PM
By your video Bell is right there. That is what LBer's are for.

OK. Whatever. Still a great play by Allen. You're wrong.

KCJohnny
01-01-2007, 11:44 PM
That's not luck, that's Carl Peterson. He takes so much crap around here for his draft misses, he deserves some praise for his successes.

I think that's fair. Good post.

Rain Man
01-01-2007, 11:44 PM
Laugh all you want about Glock, the 2000 Chiefs had FIFTY-FOUR (54) sacks, 2nd in the AFC. Compare that to ANY D in the Vermiel/Edwards era...

I had nothing against McGlockton at all. He didn't get great stats, but I always thought he was that big widebody in the middle that seems to be needed. My only problem with him was that I wished for more pass rush and I recall that he never practiced or something, which I thought set a bad example.

KCJohnny
01-01-2007, 11:48 PM
I had nothing against McGlockton at all. He didn't get great stats, but I always thought he was that big widebody in the middle that seems to be needed. My only problem with him was that I wished for more pass rush and I recall that he never practiced or something, which I thought set a bad example.

My frustration with Glock was the offsides penalties, but apart from that, no DT since then has had an actual impact. 54 sacks was phenomenal for that defense. Hicks had 14 sacks that year - who was the last Chief that had 14 sax? Right, Derrick Thomas. So take a deep breath and count to 10 before you criticize McGlockton. That said, if Jared had McGlockton at DT, he'd have 22 sax EASILY.

patteeu
01-01-2007, 11:50 PM
Why do you defend CP so much?

Because I like him and I like what he's done for the Chiefs. I think someone needs to be willing to defend him from the group-think critics.

Rain Man
01-01-2007, 11:50 PM
Heh. I'd forgotten about those offsides penalties.

Mr. Kotter
01-01-2007, 11:53 PM
Laugh all you want about Glock, the 2000 Chiefs had FIFTY-FOUR (54) sacks, 2nd in the AFC. Compare that to ANY D in the Vermiel/Edwards era...
I wasn't commenting of McGlockton....but rather the ineptitude of the Chiefs organization to REPLACE him with anyone who's deserving.....:banghead::banghead::banghead:

KCJohnny
01-01-2007, 11:55 PM
I wasn't commenting of McGlockton....but rather the ineptitude of the Chiefs organization to REPLACE him with anyone who's deserving.....:banghead::banghead::banghead:

You get my vote there. Now let's sign Warren Sapp to a 2-year deal and give Ron Edwards some help....

dirk digler
01-01-2007, 11:56 PM
Because I like him and I like what he's done for the Chiefs. I think someone needs to be willing to defend him from the group-think critics.

I think you like to defend the indefensible. First Bush now Carl. :p

Honestly after 18 years and no Super Bowl he should be gone.

Rain Man
01-01-2007, 11:57 PM
Because I like him and I like what he's done for the Chiefs. I think someone needs to be willing to defend him from the group-think critics.

The whole Carl thing leaves me frustrated and torn. On the one hand, I remember the Dark Ages before he arrived, and I'll always be grateful to the Peterson/Schottenheimer/N.Smith/DT Gang of Four who turned it around. I look at Carl's draft picks, and it can be objectively shown that he's been at least average on his first-round picks, even if his second- and third-round picks have been abysmal. He's put together some dominating teams, with 13-3 records multiple times.

Then I step back and say, "The guy's been our GM for 17 seasons without a Super Bowl appearance. There are 16 teams in our conference, and that's after expansion. We've reached 1 AFC championship game in that time, with 1 in 8 odds or better each year. We haven't had a playoff victory in 13 years."

I finally decided about a year ago that Carl has to go. He's proven to me that he can turn an awful franchise into an above-average one, but he can't turn an above-average franchise into a true championship contender. At this point, I'm willing to risk a step backward for the chance to take a step forward.

milkman
01-01-2007, 11:57 PM
You get my vote there. Now let's sign Warren Sapp to a 2-year deal and give Ron Edwards some help....

Uh.....no.

dirk digler
01-01-2007, 11:57 PM
OK. Whatever. Still a great play by Allen. You're wrong.

It was a great play but Bell was right there. That is what LB'ers are for. The DL can't make every tackle.

Ari Chi3fs
01-01-2007, 11:58 PM
The contract that the Chiefs gave Jaworski his last couple of years in the league was the best p.r. investment the Chiefs ever made.

hahah... no shit.

jidar
01-02-2007, 12:01 AM
Interesting stats Rain Man and I stand corrected.

Your sack stat is wrong. Tamba is 26th with 8

IMVHO it is all about sacks for DE. Nothing else matters.


Well in my not humble at all opinion your humble opinion is ****ing stupid.
That may be the dumbest thing posted on this board this week.

Ari Chi3fs
01-02-2007, 12:01 AM
Rainman, where is Shawn Steroidman on your list?

KcMizzou
01-02-2007, 12:03 AM
Well in my not humble at all opinion your humble opinion is ****ing stupid.
That may be the dumbest thing posted on this board this week.I think the H=honest.... but you're right about the stupid part.

Rain Man
01-02-2007, 12:03 AM
I'm only including linemen in my analysis. Steroidman is a linebacker.

dirk digler
01-02-2007, 12:08 AM
Well in my not humble at all opinion your humble opinion is ****ing stupid.
That may be the dumbest thing posted on this board this week.

Hey genius I already explained myself earlier. I was commenting on why Allen didn't make the Pro Bowl as a DE. IMHO it is all about the sacks when judging who goes to the Pro Bowl as a DE.

Same thing goes with DB's. IF they have alot of Int's they are going to the Pro Bowl. That is why Wesley made it a couple of years ago even though he didn't really deserve it.

Rain Man
01-02-2007, 12:08 AM
It was a great play but Bell was right there. That is what LB'ers are for. The DL can't make every tackle.

I agree with you, but I think gochiefs' point is that Allen got the tackle on that play instead of Bell because Allen is an active, good player. If we still had Vonnie Holliday playing at RDE, then Bell would have the tackle on his stats and we'd all be talking about why our defensive ends have so few tackles.

Allen's stats are not outstanding because the people around him are no good. They're outstanding because he makes plays.

KcMizzou
01-02-2007, 12:09 AM
Hey genious I already explained myself earlier. I was commenting on why Allen didn't make the Pro Bowl as a DE. IMHO it is all about the sacks when judging who goes to the Pro Bowl as a DE.
My apologies. You're right about that. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.

patteeu
01-02-2007, 12:10 AM
I think you like to defend the indefensible. First Bush now Carl. :p

You mean as opposed to the bandwagon followers? ;)

Honestly after 18 years and no Super Bowl he should be gone.

If you could show me a replacement who would be likely to improve on Peterson's performance, I'd consider replacing him, but I'm not interested in taking a flyer on someone when we owe so much to Peterson for turning football around in KC. I don't want the Chiefs to turn into the Royals.

dirk digler
01-02-2007, 12:12 AM
I agree with you, but I think gochiefs' point is that Allen got the tackle on that play instead of Bell because Allen is an active, good player. If we still had Vonnie Holliday playing at RDE, then Bell would have the tackle on his stats and we'd all be talking about why our defensive ends have so few tackles.

Allen's stats are not outstanding because the people around him are no good. They're outstanding because he makes plays.

Thanks and I agree with both of you. I get what you're saying.

dirk digler
01-02-2007, 12:15 AM
My apologies. You're right about that. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.

It's alright and I agree it is not right but that is the way that it is. Especially if you are going to let the fans pick who goes.

dirk digler
01-02-2007, 12:18 AM
You mean as opposed to the bandwagon followers? ;)



If you could show me a replacement who would be likely to improve on Peterson's performance, I'd consider replacing him, but I'm not interested in taking a flyer on someone when we owe so much to Peterson for turning football around in KC. I don't want the Chiefs to turn into the Royals.

I don't want that either but I also don't want to be stuck in mediocrity like we have been lately.

I think 10 years is long enough for any coach or GM in the NFL with the same team.

I would like the Chiefs to take a look at Scott Pioli or some other young GM prospect. Take a look at the Boston Red Sox, they went with a young GM in Theo Epstein(sp) and won a World Series. It can be done.

patteeu
01-02-2007, 12:19 AM
The whole Carl thing leaves me frustrated and torn. On the one hand, I remember the Dark Ages before he arrived, and I'll always be grateful to the Peterson/Schottenheimer/N.Smith/DT Gang of Four who turned it around. I look at Carl's draft picks, and it can be objectively shown that he's been at least average on his first-round picks, even if his second- and third-round picks have been abysmal. He's put together some dominating teams, with 13-3 records multiple times.

Then I step back and say, "The guy's been our GM for 17 seasons without a Super Bowl appearance. There are 16 teams in our conference, and that's after expansion. We've reached 1 AFC championship game in that time, with 1 in 8 odds or better each year. We haven't had a playoff victory in 13 years."

I finally decided about a year ago that Carl has to go. He's proven to me that he can turn an awful franchise into an above-average one, but he can't turn an above-average franchise into a true championship contender. At this point, I'm willing to risk a step backward for the chance to take a step forward.

I hear you, and if the Hunts were to decide to go in a different direction, I wouldn't second guess them (it is their team afterall), but Carl says this is his last contract and I'm willing to wait it out in return for what he's brought back to Kansas City.

The only good reason I can think of to want to change GMs is if we really don't want to have competitive teams every year anymore and, instead, we want a GM with the sell-out for a couple of years and then clean house philosophy. That might be a way to get to and maybe even win a Superbowl, but it would be hard to sit through those 2-14 or 3-13 seasons that come during the rebuilding years. I'd hate to have lost the superbowl and then have to suffer through the seasons the Raiders have had the last couple of years. KC's losses in the playoffs haven't been Peterson's fault, IMO. I think KC has been extremely unlucky in those 13-3 years.

Rain Man
01-02-2007, 12:21 AM
My apologies. I had a typo in the spreadsheet that I posted earlier. Jared Allen has 60 solo tackles, not 40. This change moves him up very close to Jason Taylor, and a long way above Leonard Little in third place.

Seriously, if Jason Taylor is a legitimate candidate, so is Jared Allen, based on statistical production (if you agree with my weighting factors, that is).

The corrected spreadsheet is attached.

dirk digler
01-02-2007, 12:22 AM
I hear you, and if the Hunts were to decide to go in a different direction, I wouldn't second guess them (it is their team afterall), but Carl says this is his last contract and I'm willing to wait it out in return for what he's brought back to Kansas City.

The only good reason I can think of to want to change GMs is if we really don't want to have competitive teams every year anymore and, instead, we want a GM with the sell-out for a couple of years and then clean house philosophy. That might be a way to get to and maybe even win a Superbowl, but it would be hard to sit through those 2-14 or 3-13 seasons that come during the rebuilding years. I'd hate to have lost the superbowl and then have to suffer through the seasons the Raiders have had the last couple of years. KC's losses in the playoffs haven't been Peterson's fault, IMO. I think KC has been extremely unlucky in those 13-3 years.

I understand your point and I don't necessarily disagree with it. But I would gladly sit through some shitty seasons if we could win the SB.

patteeu
01-02-2007, 12:23 AM
I don't want that either but I also don't want to be stuck in mediocrity like we have been lately.

I think 10 years is long enough for any coach or GM in the NFL with the same team.

I would like the Chiefs to take a look at Scott Pioli or some other young GM prospect. Take a look at the Boston Red Sox, they went with a young GM in Theo Epstein(sp) and won a World Series. It can be done.

It can be done, but it's a crapshoot asfaics. Allard Baird was a young GM prospect at one point too. There was a lot of hype surrounding Baird when he took over the Royals. Now if the Chiefs could bring in a proven guy like Scott Pioli, that would be a different story, but I don't see that happening.

dirk digler
01-02-2007, 12:28 AM
My apologies. I had a typo in the spreadsheet that I posted earlier. Jared Allen has 60 solo tackles, not 40. This change moves him up very close to Jason Taylor, and a long way above Leonard Little in third place.

Seriously, if Jason Taylor is a legitimate candidate, so is Jared Allen, based on statistical production (if you agree with my weighting factors, that is).

The corrected spreadsheet is attached.

You know what would be an interesting stat would be how many QB pressures Taylor and Allen has.

Direckshun
01-02-2007, 12:29 AM
having seen Allen run down Najeh Davenport
Was waiting for someone to mention this.

Jared Allen is top tier.

dirk digler
01-02-2007, 12:29 AM
It can be done, but it's a crapshoot asfaics. Allard Baird was a young GM prospect at one point too. There was a lot of hype surrounding Baird when he took over the Royals. Now if the Chiefs could bring in a proven guy like Scott Pioli, that would be a different story, but I don't see that happening.

I agree but I think after 18 years most people are willing to take that gamble though I don't know about the Hunts. CP has made alot of money for the Hunt family.

patteeu
01-02-2007, 12:30 AM
I understand your point and I don't necessarily disagree with it. But I would gladly sit through some shitty seasons if we could win the SB.

I would too if we knew we'd win some superbowls going into the arrangement. The problem with the boom and bust philosophy is that the shitty seasons are pretty much guaranteed but the superbowl victories are not. Atlanta made a run to the superbowl one year, lost, and then spent several years fluctuating between horrible and mediocre. Cincinnati did that too and spent an eternity in NFL hell (although surely a guy off the street could do better than they did during that period). San Diego's been on a run lately, but they've spent plenty of years at or near the bottom of the AFC West and don't have a superbowl trophy to show for it yet (although they did have an appearance or two).

But I still have faith in Peterson. He's got a short time left and he's going to have all the motivation in the world to field a championship team. And I'm pretty happy with our current coach so maybe he's got a shot at it.

milkman
01-02-2007, 10:29 PM
If you could show me a replacement who would be likely to improve on Peterson's performance, I'd consider replacing him, but I'm not interested in taking a flyer on someone when we owe so much to Peterson for turning football around in KC. I don't want the Chiefs to turn into the Royals.

I absolutely hate this stupid ****ing argument.

It's this same fear of risk by the Hunts that keeps us in constant mediocrity.

I am ****ing sick of mediocrity, and would be not only willing to suffer through a couple of shitty seasons, I'd be happy about it, if there was a commitment actually fielding a championship team at some point.

This commitment to medicrity blows chucks, and Carl can kiss my hairy ass.

beer bacon
01-02-2007, 10:38 PM
Allen has had a great year. I'd like to see what he did next to a great DT, he'd be a monster. He already is really. He doesn't have huge sack numbers but he's very balanced, does a lot of things.

According to stats, inc... who gives ESPN.com their stats, he finished with 76 tackles, 7.5 sacks, 3 forced fumbles, 10 passes defensed... and also 11 "stuffs", which is basically tackles for loss that weren't sacks. That's pretty impressive, I think that leads the league. It's not an official stat but I couldn't find anybody on any of the playoff teams that has more. Merriman had 3, Taylor had 6.5.

As far as I can find, the only player that had more stuffs then JA was BFF Grady Jackson with 13.

cdcox
01-02-2007, 10:53 PM
Seriously, if Jason Taylor is a legitimate candidate, so is Jared Allen, based on statistical production (if you agree with my weighting factors, that is).

The corrected spreadsheet is attached.

I tried several other sets of weighting factors, and regardless of what you choose, JA ranks among the top 3 or 4 DE in the NFL based on his overall 2006 production. I didn't realize that he was that good prior to this thread. The cool thing is that he just keeps getting better every year.

unothadeal
01-02-2007, 11:26 PM
Anyone have video of JA chasing down Davenport?

penchief
01-03-2007, 02:12 AM
What? That's dumb.

Really, really dumb.

Not really. When you look at the stats and watch the games it's obvious that he is a major factor. As much as I love Hali's potential, I'd be foolish not to think that the one impact player we have on defense is Allen.

Maybe he didn't have the sacks he's accustomed to but he had a boatload of fumble recoveries and even more big plays stopping people in the backfield.

In fact, if you check out the solo tackles I think he blows everybody else away by about 20.

I definitely think he got jipped when it comes to the pro-bowl. And I think he's right on the cusp of being there with Taylor and Merriman.

boogblaster
01-03-2007, 08:42 AM
Allen is one of the top 5 DE in the business..he's close to the ball every play, disrupts every play to his side, has as many QB hurries as anyone in history..he's quality.....

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 08:46 AM
I tried several other sets of weighting factors, and regardless of what you choose, JA ranks among the top 3 or 4 DE in the NFL based on his overall 2006 production. I didn't realize that he was that good prior to this thread. The cool thing is that he just keeps getting better every year.

Excellent work.

cdcox
01-03-2007, 08:53 AM
Excellent work.

Rain Man gathered the data and built the spreadsheet. I just played with it for 5 minutes to see if the weighting factors added significant bias to the conclusions; they don't.

Rain Man
01-03-2007, 10:36 AM
Rain Man gathered the data and built the spreadsheet. I just played with it for 5 minutes to see if the weighting factors added significant bias to the conclusions; they don't.

That's good to know since the weighting factors are (in my case) so arbitrary and difficult to justify.

I was a bit surprised too at how high Jared rated, but after watching him for 16 games I don't think his numbers are a fluke. He's all over the field and he gets results.

Did the weighting factors affect where Hali ended up? His high ranking raised my eyebrows, too.

As much as we need an OT and WR, there's a part of me that wants to get a big stud DT so that these guys can be unleashed even more.

Mr. Laz
01-03-2007, 10:37 AM
Jaws loves the Chiefs! LMAO

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 10:40 AM
Jaws loves the Chiefs! LMAO

And the results on the field justifies it...

DMAC
01-03-2007, 10:44 AM
I don't know if this has been said, but, if Jared Allen is good enough to be the Defensive POY, then should'nt he be good enough to be on the pro bowl roster? :shrug:

Mr. Laz
01-03-2007, 10:50 AM
And the results on the field justifies it...
that crap ....... there is no way that Jared Allen is defensive POY.

he just doesn't influence the game enough


Jared Allen is a good,productive player who looks to be still improving. He's a high motor guy who works hard, gives his all and seems to be a really good kid.

but he also disappears for games at a time ... is that because the rest of our defensive line sucks??? maybe ... maybe it's not his fault, but it still happens.

there are probably a dozen defensive players have have bigger impact on the game than Allen at this point in his career.

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 10:51 AM
that crap ....... there is no way that Jared Allen is defensive POY.

he just doesn't influence the game enough


Jared Allen is a good,productive player who looks to be still improving. He's a high motor guy who works hard, gives his all and seems to be a really good kid.

but he also disappears for games at a time ... is that because the rest of our defensive line sucks??? maybe ... maybe it's not his fault, but it still happens.

there are probably a dozen defensive players have have bigger impact on the game than Allen at this point in his career.

I take it you didn't look at the data provided...

Mr. Laz
01-03-2007, 11:01 AM
I take it you didn't look at the data provided...
i saw them ... what's your point?

i agree that Jared Allen is a very productive player ..... and the stats show that.


i also said that POY is about more than that, it's about how much influence the player brings to the game. There are several defensive players that influence the game more than Allen.

Allen is young though and still improving, i'm glad he's on our team.

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 11:09 AM
i saw them ... what's your point?

i agree that Jared Allen is a very productive player ..... and the stats show that.


i also said that POY is about more than that, it's about how much influence the player brings to the game. There are several defensive players that influence the game more than Allen.

Allen is young though and still improving, i'm glad he's on our team.

Actually, the data is weighted and can be used to show "game changing" status. And he ranks near the top. There's no "several" defensive players, there's a handful.

Besides, your original post was the Jaws loves the Chiefs, as if that somehow is the reason he picked Jared Allen. He picked Jared Allen because ALLEN DESERVES MENTION, not because Jaws is a homer.

Mr. Laz
01-03-2007, 11:12 AM
Actually, the data is weighted and can be used to show "game changing" status. And he ranks near the top. There's no "several" defensive players, there's a handful.

Besides, your original post was the Jaws loves the Chiefs, as if that somehow is the reason he picked Jared Allen. He picked Jared Allen because ALLEN DESERVES MENTION, not because Jaws is a homer.
several ---- handful

deserves mention --- not POY

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 11:16 AM
Jaws is stupid. I think it should be either Taylor or Champ. You can throw Adelphius(sp) Thomas in there as well.
Well, I would go Bailey. Too bad WRs can't hold CBs. If that were so, Jared Allen would be MVP. Not just for defense, but for the whole nfl. This guy is getting held, blocked in the back, clipped, and god knows what else. And he is still putting pressure on the QB. Give him the DMVP award. Talyor has lower stats. Meriman didn't play the whole year, maybe give him the Comeback Player of the Year. Bailey had an awesome year, but he isn't the only playmaker on his team. Allen is doing it almost by himself.

Rain Man
01-03-2007, 11:18 AM
Meriman didn't play the whole year, maybe give him the Comeback Player of the Year.

That'd be hilarious.

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 11:21 AM
several ---- handful

deserves mention --- not POY

Not sure what you're getting at.

The bottom line is that thinking Jared Allen deserves the DPoY does not make one a Chiefs homer. His numbers prove that he's deserving. Are there players MORE deserving? Most likely. But not many.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 11:25 AM
Not sure what you're getting at.

The bottom line is that thinking Jared Allen deserves the DPoY does not make one a Chiefs homer. His numbers prove that he's deserving. Are there players MORE deserving? Most likely. But not many.
Hey, give it to Allen. He is the only canadate that hasn't bashed on Meriman.

Mr. Laz
01-03-2007, 11:27 AM
Not sure what you're getting at.

The bottom line is that thinking Jared Allen deserves the DPoY does not make one a Chiefs homer. His numbers prove that he's deserving. Are there players MORE deserving? Most likely. But not many.
what i'm getting at is that is that you going after me when i didn't say anything much differently than you.

i said that Allen shouldn't be POY ...

you jump me ........ but then say yourself that he "deserves mention"

i never said he didn't deserve mention, i said he wasn't POY.



i said several players have more impact than Allen ... you said a handful.

:spock:

can i can a judges ruling on just what the difference is between several and a handful? :rolleyes:


my point is ... that your panties must me in a bunch today because we basically have the same position.

you're just grouchy cause i didn't say it right.

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 11:28 AM
what i'm getting at is that is that you going after me when i didn't say anything much differently than you.

i said that Allen shouldn't be POY ...

you jump me ........ but then say yourself that he "deserves mention"

i never said he didn't deserve mention, i said he wasn't POY.



i said several players have more impact than Allen ... you said a handful.

:spock:

can i can a judges ruling on just what the difference is between several and a handful? :rolleyes:


my point is ... that your panties must me in a bunch today because we basically have the same position.

you're just grouchy cause i didn't say it right.

ROFL

Do I need to remind you what your first post in the thread was?

dirk digler
01-03-2007, 11:32 AM
One question for everyone.

What is the DE primary job?

Mr. Laz
01-03-2007, 11:32 AM
ROFL

Do I need to remind you what your first post in the thread was?
that "Jaws loves the chiefs LMAO"

he does


the fact that he's mentioning a guy that only "deserves mention" is proof that he does.


you need to take that thong off and switch to granny panties .... it much be chafing. ROFL

Mr. Laz
01-03-2007, 11:34 AM
One question for everyone.

What is the DE primary job?
pressure the quarterback

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 11:36 AM
that "Jaws loves the chiefs LMAO"

he does

the fact that he's mentioning a guy that only "deserves mention" is proof that he does.

you need to take that thong off and switch to granny panties .... it much be chafing. ROFL

Funny.

Predictable, but funny.

He's mentioning a guy that deserves mention only means that the guy DESERVES MENTION.

Nothing more, nothing less. But leave it to you to read something into it, especially when that something allows you to play the homer card.

Straight, No Chaser
01-03-2007, 11:36 AM
I guess Jaws didn't see Allen play the run against Baltimore and San Diego.


--->

dirk digler
01-03-2007, 11:40 AM
pressure the quarterback

I agree. Allen has 7.5 sacks and is ranked 30th in the NFL. I don't know how many pressure's he has and that would be an interesting stat to know.

cdcox
01-03-2007, 11:51 AM
Did the weighting factors affect where Hali ended up? His high ranking raised my eyebrows, too.



It might affect his ranking by a few places, but regardless he's in the second tier of DL in terms of productivity (places 6-15). He could easily improve, too.

cdcox
01-03-2007, 11:55 AM
I agree. Allen has 7.5 sacks and is ranked 30th in the NFL. I don't know how many pressure's he has and that would be an interesting stat to know.

The 11 passes defended (tops among DL) should be a strong secondary indication that he is an effective pass rusher.

RP_McMurphy
01-03-2007, 12:00 PM
I would be willing to trade Byron Leftwhich and a 3rd rounder for Jared Allen.

Signed,

Jack Del Rio

cdcox
01-03-2007, 12:00 PM
One question for everyone.

What is the DE primary job?

Art Still was a tenaceous run defender and a good, but not great, pass rusher (72.5 sacks over 10 seasons with the Chiefs). He was elected to 4 probowls.

dirk digler
01-03-2007, 12:01 PM
The 11 passes defended (tops among DL) should be a strong secondary indication that he is an effective pass rusher.

From kcchiefs.com

http://www.kcchiefs.com/stats/



So Allen has 7.5 sacks with only 12 pressures. IMO that is not even close to Defensive POY type numbers.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 12:17 PM
From kcchiefs.com

http://www.kcchiefs.com/stats/



So Allen has 7.5 sacks with only 12 pressures. IMO that is not even close to Defensive POY type numbers.
Is it his fault that the OT he lines up against clip, and hold him on every play. But somehow, he makes some noise. I disagree with those 12 pressures stats. He has done that in the last two games. Watch film on Allen and you will see what I mean.

penchief
01-03-2007, 01:06 PM
From kcchiefs.com

http://www.kcchiefs.com/stats/



So Allen has 7.5 sacks with only 12 pressures. IMO that is not even close to Defensive POY type numbers.

Again, I'd take a look at takeaways and solo tackles. Solo tackles for a DL is an underrated stat, IMO. That usually means that you're Johnny-on-the-spot.

How many tackles for losses, I wonder?

dirk digler
01-03-2007, 01:07 PM
Is it his fault that the OT he lines up against clip, and hold him on every play. But somehow, he makes some noise. I disagree with those 12 pressures stats. He has done that in the last two games. Watch film on Allen and you will see what I mean.

The stats are from the Chiefs not from me.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 01:11 PM
The stats are from the Chiefs not from me.
I understand that, but I disagree. He has had more than that.

dirk digler
01-03-2007, 01:14 PM
I understand that, but I disagree. He has had more than that.

Actually the stats are for the first 15 games so the last game is not included so he probably has a couple more.

I don't know how the NFL or the Chiefs determine what a QB pressure is.

dirk digler
01-03-2007, 01:15 PM
Again, I'd take a look at takeaways and solo tackles. Solo tackles for a DL is an underrated stat, IMO. That usually means that you're Johnny-on-the-spot.

How many tackles for losses, I wonder?

In the stats they have something that says TFL which probably means Tackle for Loss. Allen has 8.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 01:15 PM
Actually the stats are for the first 15 games so the last game is not included so he probably has a couple more.

I don't know how the NFL or the Chiefs determine what a QB pressure is.
Who knows? Don't they have a QB rating that is gay too?

dirk digler
01-03-2007, 01:16 PM
Who knows? Don't they have a QB rating that is gay too?

Yep. I really have no idea what constitutes a QB Pressure.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 01:21 PM
Yep. I really have no idea what constitutes a QB Pressure.
Jared Allen might just have to settle for Super Bowl MVP