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View Full Version : How to beat the COLTS: part II


mcan
01-02-2007, 05:01 AM
Here we are again. The playoffs. Last time, I had a sure fire way to stop the vaunted COLTS right in their tracks. I even WENT to the game and yelled out my little strategy to Eric Hicks during his warm up. Unfortunately, nobody actually implemented my advice, and we wound up without a single defensive stop!


So, here it is... The secret to beating the Colts:

WATCH JEFF SATURDAY'S HEAD!!!

That's right folks. It's just that simple. Don't watch Peyton and his fist pump, pre-snap dancing. Don't watch the ball. Don't watch your man. Watch Jeff Saturday's head bounce... That beautiful, telling bounce.

Why should I watch the center's head, you ask?

Because Jeff has this nasty habit of looking down at the ball until he's ready to SNAP it back to his all-pro QB. But he has to know where his guy is, so he can block him. So the head comes up first... Then, not a half second later... The ball follows.

1st series:
Head-snap... Sack...
Head-snap... Stop for loss...
Head-snap... Sack...
Punt.

Mitch: ...and the whole defensive line seems to be rocketing off the line, Len?

Len: You're not kidding. It seems like Allen and Hali are in the backfield before the tackles can even get their hands off the ground. These guys really came to play.

Mitch: It's almost like they know the snap count Len.

Len: Sometimes you see something on film that gives away what they're doing, and this looks like one of those times...

mcan
01-02-2007, 05:09 AM
Just to show that I've mentioned this before:


I swear to God, Jeff Saturday raises his head before he snaps the damned ball EVERYTIME. If just one member of the Chiefs' staff would have listened we would have rolled the Colts easily. I even yelled it to Eric Hicks while he was warming up. Eric was like, "thanks kid."

and again...


--after the Steelers whooped up on em in the playoffs.
I didn't watch the whole game. Just saw the final 5 or 6 minutes. But, it seems to me that Pit was taking advantage of a "tell" that I've had on Jeff Saturday for years...

CupidStunt
01-02-2007, 05:17 AM
Such an obvious tell must've been noticed by a defensive coach in all their many hours of film study. I refuse to believe that it's as obvious as you say.

This would be the poker equivalent of a player getting a woody when he wakes up with aces.

KurtCobain
01-02-2007, 05:36 AM
go chiefs!

mcan
01-02-2007, 05:36 AM
Such an obvious tell must've been noticed by a defensive coach in all their many hours of film study. I refuse to believe that it's as obvious as you say.

This would be the poker equivalent of a player getting a woody when he wakes up with aces.


You would think so, wouldn't you. But I've watched countless Colts games since 2000 (when I first noticed it) and he's done it, practically the same way, on practically every snap since then. I was beside myself with grief during the 2003 playoff game. I literally tried everything I could to get somebody's attention. Like I said, I even yelled it to Eric Hicks right before the game started. Then, I watched as they systematically destroyed our defense. I stood by, helpless, as our defensive linemen got pushed around even though Jeff Saturday was still doing it! I could see it from my seat in the upper deck!


I concede that sometimes, Jeff will slooowly raise his head and not snap the ball. But even then, he STILL looks back down at the ball and snaps his head up really quick right before he gets the ball back. So, an ancy defensive lineman might misinterperet the slow head movement and jump offsides. But just watching the tape, you can see the difference.

I really think that it goes un-noticed because people are always watching Peyton, and trying like hell to discern his signals. I'll bet 90% of the film study done by Colts' opponents is devoted to trying to crack that code.

CupidStunt
01-02-2007, 06:00 AM
It makes perfect sense... but it just seems that if Joe Average watching at home on a TV screen can spot it, why the hell can't many NFL defensive gurus?

Not to worry, though. Your thoughts provide good opportunity to gaze at that fantastic avatar. :drool:

Guru
01-02-2007, 06:21 AM
It makes perfect sense... but it just seems that if Joe Average watching at home on a TV screen can spot it, why the hell can't many NFL defensive gurus?

Not to worry, though. Your thoughts provide good opportunity to gaze at that fantastic avatar. :drool:
And just who is that avatar anyway?

mcan
01-02-2007, 06:24 AM
It makes perfect sense... but it just seems that if Joe Average watching at home on a TV screen can spot it, why the hell can't many NFL defensive gurus?

Not to worry, though. Your thoughts provide good opportunity to gaze at that fantastic avatar. :drool:


In my own defense, I'm hardly "Joe Average" football fan. I watch a lot of tape, and have all the games going back to 2000. I really do think a few teams in the league have spotted it, and have kept it 'mum' so as not to tip their hand. Ever wonder how New England's defense seems to get in Peyton's face on every play and force bad throws and interceptions? :hmmm:


Yeah, gotta love that Keira Knightley.


So, anybody have an inside track as to the email addresses of some Chiefs coaches? I'm thinking of sending a "heads up" email titled "Jeff Saturday" to Gunther Cunningham and Tim Krumrie.

Monty
01-02-2007, 09:06 AM
So, anybody have an inside track as to the email addresses of some Chiefs coaches? I'm thinking of sending a "heads up" email titled "Jeff Saturday" to Gunther Cunningham and Tim Krumrie.


I tried this a couple of years ago while sending emails to CP. I don't know if CP got them, but they weren't bounced, so that was a good sign. The address I used was: cpeterson@chiefs.nfl.com

So, logically, you would think that that following are correct:

gcunningham@chiefs.nfl.com

or

tkrumrie@chiefs.nfl.com

Good luck! :thumb:

Anyong Bluth
01-02-2007, 09:28 AM
There are plenty of people around here with video at their disposal, anyone want to put together a few clips of this!?

Count Alex's Losses
01-02-2007, 09:32 AM
Mcan, I want you to email this information to Jeffery Flanagan.

Two years ago the Denver Post ran an article with quotes from Larry Coyer. He called KC's offensive line a bunch of cheaters.

I emailed it to Flanagan. He wrote a column about the quotes the next day.

Sure enough our offensive line came out pissed and we beat the crap out of them 45-17. To this day I like to think I had an effect on the game, but I wonder if any of the Chiefs offensive linemen would have seen those quotes from Coyer had I not e-mailed Flanagan. You never know.

Count Alex's Losses
01-02-2007, 09:32 AM
There are plenty of people around here with video at their disposal, anyone want to put together a few clips of this!?

That's a good idea. I'll go download the last Colts game.

Bob Dole
01-02-2007, 09:37 AM
Mcan, I want you to email this information to Jeffery Flanagan.

Two years ago the Denver Post ran an article with quotes from Larry Coyer. He called KC's offensive line a bunch of cheaters.

I emailed it to Flanagan. He wrote a column about the quotes the next day.

Sure enough our offensive line came out pissed and we beat the crap out of them 45-17. To this day I like to think I had an effect on the game, but I wonder if any of the Chiefs offensive linemen would have seen those quotes from Coyer had I not e-mailed Flanagan. You never know.

Bob Dole took a big shit Sunday morning and named the kids Titan, Bronco, Bengal and Jaguar before he flushed.

To this day, Bob Dole likes to think he had an effect on the game.

Count Alex's Losses
01-02-2007, 09:38 AM
Bob Dole took a big shit Sunday morning and named the kids Titan, Bronco, Bengal and Jaguar before he flushed.

To this day, Bob Dole likes to think he had an effect on the game.

No, because you didn't e-mail Flanagan about it.

Bob Dole
01-02-2007, 09:40 AM
No, because you didn't e-mail Flanagan about it.

True. But Bob Dole sent Jeffery a Picturemail.

boogblaster
01-02-2007, 10:01 AM
Is this a shit thread..or a snap thread....

Count Alex's Losses
01-02-2007, 11:29 AM
I've got the Miami game downloaded. I'll take a look at the Colts third-down plays.

Bowser
01-02-2007, 11:33 AM
I've got the Miami game downloaded. I'll take a look at the Colts third-down plays.

Yeah, let us know. I'm curious as to if mcan is insane or on to something.

mcan
01-02-2007, 11:34 AM
I've got the Miami game downloaded. I'll take a look at the Colts third-down plays.


Why just third down? He does it nearly EVERY snap. Has for years.

Count Alex's Losses
01-02-2007, 11:35 AM
Why just third down? He does it nearly EVERY snap. Has for years.

Because that's all I'm really interested in. If we can't find something to key on third down, we probably won't get much of a pass rush. Plus, watching every Colt possession is time-consuming.

mcan
01-02-2007, 11:42 AM
Just looked at two different Youtube videos of live action Colts' games and he did it on both of them.

It would be interesting to see what percentage of plays he did it. If it's not 100% then it's pretty darn close. Maybe a couple snaps a game, he'll have a different rhythm to his head bob, or like I said, he'll slowly lift his head and bring it back down, only to zip it up and snap the ball the same way he always does.

C-Mac
01-02-2007, 11:56 AM
Wonder if Pittsburg noticed this last year, they were the first team I saw that was able to constantly get to Manning.
:hmmm:

grandllama
01-02-2007, 12:21 PM
...
So, anybody have an inside track as to the email addresses of some Chiefs coaches? I'm thinking of sending a "heads up" email titled "Jeff Saturday" to Gunther Cunningham and Tim Krumrie.

Gunther has probably all ready read this thread and locked up in the film room verifying your data.

mcan
01-02-2007, 12:25 PM
Gunther has probably all ready read this thread and locked up in the film room verifying your data.


I sure hope so.


Hey GoChiefs, how's the verification coming?

Count Alex's Losses
01-02-2007, 01:45 PM
This is only in shotgun, right?

Count Alex's Losses
01-02-2007, 01:46 PM
OK...first play of the game, Manning under center...nothing.

Second play, shotgun...nothing.

Count Alex's Losses
01-02-2007, 01:48 PM
Shotgun again...nothing.

Calcountry
01-02-2007, 01:48 PM
In my own defense, I'm hardly "Joe Average" football fan. I watch a lot of tape, and have all the games going back to 2000. I really do think a few teams in the league have spotted it, and have kept it 'mum' so as not to tip their hand. Ever wonder how New England's defense seems to get in Peyton's face on every play and force bad throws and interceptions? :hmmm:


Yeah, gotta love that Keira Knightley.


So, anybody have an inside track as to the email addresses of some Chiefs coaches? I'm thinking of sending a "heads up" email titled "Jeff Saturday" to Gunther Cunningham and Tim Krumrie.Maybe Pittsburgh figured it out last year. Peyton had problems with protection.

Count Alex's Losses
01-02-2007, 01:50 PM
Shotgun again...nothing. Uh...

Count Alex's Losses
01-02-2007, 01:52 PM
I'm not seeing a whole hell of a lot here so far.

Bob Dole
01-02-2007, 01:53 PM
Shotgun again...nothing. Uh...

You're just making things up now.

How about Manning moving toward the line of scrimmage after the offense is set? Do you see any evidence of that?

Count Alex's Losses
01-02-2007, 01:54 PM
OK. I just took a look at Wesley's INT from the 2004 game and Saturday does EXACTLY what you're describing. But that was 2004. I'm still looking for 2006 proof.

CosmicPal
01-02-2007, 01:56 PM
If what you are saying is true, you NEED to tell the Chiefs coaching staff ASAP. Call Arrowhead, email the sportswriters, or drive up there yourself. Whatever it takes to get the info to the coaches and the players so they can review it themselves.

Count Alex's Losses
01-02-2007, 01:56 PM
How many Colts games have you watched this year?

Count Alex's Losses
01-02-2007, 02:03 PM
Here is what mcan is talking about. It's pretty clear what Saturday does. I also noticed none of our defensive linemen knew about it, heh.

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9212/wesleyint65ydreturnds4.gif (http://imageshack.us)

So far I haven't seen it in the Miami game.

Hog Farmer
01-02-2007, 02:06 PM
I can see it now, "MCAN WINS CHIEFS FIRST PLAYOFF GAME I ONE BILLION YEARS"

Count Alex's Losses
01-02-2007, 02:08 PM
I think Jeff has kicked his nasty habit, mcan. His head is perfectly still for at least a couple seconds everytime he snaps the ball from any formation. So far, anyway.

Bob Dole
01-02-2007, 02:09 PM
Here is what mcan is talking about. It's pretty clear what Saturday does. I also noticed none of our defensive linemen knew about it, heh.

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9212/wesleyint65ydreturnds4.gif (http://imageshack.us)

So far I haven't seen it in the Miami game.

Manning clearly takes a step toward the line of scrimmage as well.

Too bad Hell will freeze over before the demigod is flagged for it.

Count Alex's Losses
01-02-2007, 02:15 PM
This is from the Miami game. I see no tell:

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/4044/saturdayxy0.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Count Alex's Losses
01-02-2007, 02:21 PM
Fast forwarded to the fourth quarter and he's still not doing it.

I'll take a look at another game tonight or something...who knows. We'll surely lose if we don't have this advantage.

Donger
01-02-2007, 02:26 PM
Manning clearly takes a step toward the line of scrimmage as well.

Too bad Hell will freeze over before the demigod is flagged for it.

Didn't you know? Manning is so powerful that he can actually move the field. That's what you're seeing.

Chiefnj
01-02-2007, 02:29 PM
Could it be the "head snapping" is only an issue on the road when dealing with crowd noise? In the first clip against KC, the center is looking for manning's foot stomp as the sign to snap the ball. The clip from Miami he can hear Manning's count and doesn't have to peek between is legs in the backfield.

mcan
01-02-2007, 06:31 PM
It could just be a resolution thing. Sometimes he just has a slight tilt to his head, and it's pretty subtle. But the clip you just showed looks like it's gone. I hope that's the exception to the rule, and the Chiefs can get back in Peyton's face this Saturday...

I'm going to keep on looking around.

mcan
01-02-2007, 06:40 PM
I found it!
Week 17 highlights vs Miami...
Manning's TD scramble, he does it -- 55 second mark

http://colts.com/video/selectmediawm.cfm?myvideoid=20677&nfl=1

Tribal Warfare
01-02-2007, 06:48 PM
shouldn't the title of thread be How to beat the COLTS: part III

:banghead:

mcan
01-02-2007, 06:53 PM
shouldn't the title of thread be How to beat the COLTS: part III

:banghead:


Except I didn't post a thread explaining how to do it back in '95. I didn't even really know how to use the internet... But in '03 I explained quite clearly what we should have done.

Logical
01-02-2007, 07:04 PM
It could just be a resolution thing. Sometimes he just has a slight tilt to his head, and it's pretty subtle. But the clip you just showed looks like it's gone. I hope that's the exception to the rule, and the Chiefs can get back in Peyton's face this Saturday...

I'm going to keep on looking around.

Manning could walk up to the line and tell our DTs thesnap count and it would not make a difference 90% of the time.

Skip Towne
01-02-2007, 07:25 PM
I was watching a college game a month or so ago and the centers for both teams would look back at the QB then raise up the head and snap it. Neither D line seemed to pick up on it. I mentioned it in the game thread but nobody seemed to think anything of it.

Simply Red
01-02-2007, 07:34 PM
No offense to what anyone may speculate, but; I'm not buying that this happens that consistently. It appears to be the same thing as one telling the line to begin coming in when they hear the QB say; "Hut." He may snap it 8 times out of ten at that very time or he may not snap it 8 times out of ten while saying, "Hut." So what I'm saying is I believe it is merely a guess.

unothadeal
01-02-2007, 08:31 PM
From what I see he snaps the ball every time AFTER HE RAISES HIS HEAD. He may not raise his head every time, but when he does, he will snap it immediatly

unothadeal
01-02-2007, 08:33 PM
Oh, and mcan. Did Hicks say thanks kid sarcastically or was he sincere?

mcan
01-03-2007, 12:48 AM
Oh, and mcan. Did Hicks say thanks kid sarcastically or was he sincere?


It wasn't really "sarcasm" per say, but he definately blew me off. Kind of like, "All right, thanks... Enjoy the game! ...What the hell was he yelling about?"

Guru
01-03-2007, 12:55 AM
In my own defense, I'm hardly "Joe Average" football fan. I watch a lot of tape, and have all the games going back to 2000. I really do think a few teams in the league have spotted it, and have kept it 'mum' so as not to tip their hand. Ever wonder how New England's defense seems to get in Peyton's face on every play and force bad throws and interceptions? :hmmm:


Yeah, gotta love that Keira Knightley.


So, anybody have an inside track as to the email addresses of some Chiefs coaches? I'm thinking of sending a "heads up" email titled "Jeff Saturday" to Gunther Cunningham and Tim Krumrie.
Keira Knightley?

Wow she looks totally different in that pic than any pic I have ever seen her in.

Halfcan
01-03-2007, 01:52 AM
Funny I don't think Manning has ever complained about Jeff Saturday's Head?

unothadeal
01-03-2007, 01:55 AM
:clap:

mcan
01-09-2007, 07:42 PM
I just thought I'd bump this thread and gloat a bit. Again, Jeff Saturday spent all day bobbing his head, and again, the Chiefs didn't get any pressure on Manning. For some reason, Manning's passes were as attracted to Ty Law as I am to Keira Knightley, but it wasn't because of our rush.

Too bad a 27 year old college kid with no coaching experience can see it, but our defense can't.

crazycoffey
01-09-2007, 07:48 PM
yeah, I thought about you during the game, I have to say it wasn't with Kindness.

I never noticed this and I was looking for it.

Count Alex's Losses
01-09-2007, 08:46 PM
I just thought I'd bump this thread and gloat a bit. Again, Jeff Saturday spent all day bobbing his head, and again, the Chiefs didn't get any pressure on Manning. For some reason, Manning's passes were as attracted to Ty Law as I am to Keira Knightley, but it wasn't because of our rush.

Too bad a 27 year old college kid with no coaching experience can see it, but our defense can't.

It's not like it would have made a difference. Our offense blew the game, not the defense. We got enough pressure on Manning...more than most teams.

mcan
01-09-2007, 09:36 PM
yeah, I thought about you during the game, I have to say it wasn't with Kindness.

I never noticed this and I was looking for it.


are you serious?! Just go to the highlights on NFL.com. They only show Jeff Saturday on five plays, and he does it BIG TIME in three of them, and just a little bit on two... That's 100% of their big plays that could have been stopped had somebody been paying attention.

C-Mac
01-09-2007, 10:09 PM
I remembered this thread and mentioned it to my son when I saw it happen in the game, so I know Saturday did it for sure a few times.

Deberg_1990
01-09-2007, 10:23 PM
Too bad a 27 year old college kid with no coaching experience can see it, but our defense can't.

I can garuntee you they saw it. They just werent talented enough to take advantage.

Count Alex's Losses
11-16-2007, 06:12 PM
Part III!

mcan
11-16-2007, 06:25 PM
I'm glad you brought this up. Every time we play these guys I cry out to the four winds about this OBVIOUS tell. Every time, everybody tells me how stupid I am and how the coaches surely know about it, blah blah blah... Then I watch the game, and we can't get to Manning... All the while Saturday is popping up and down 80% of the time.

Demonpenz
11-16-2007, 07:08 PM
big deal you still can't go across the line of scrimmage until the ball is snapped.

StcChief
11-16-2007, 08:48 PM
Just keep Manning flustered and alot players are questionable.

long drives clock control

mcan
11-16-2007, 09:33 PM
big deal you still can't go across the line of scrimmage until the ball is snapped.


The point is, the offensive lineman go on the first movement of the ball. Defensive linemen have to register that movement and then go... Often times into the waiting arms of the "already out of his stance" offensive guy. If you ALSO know the snap is coming......... NOW! Then you can beat your man every time. Or at least have him playing catchup.

dlhallacy
11-17-2007, 12:51 AM
Not this is relevant here, but does anyone know how I can find old Chiefs games on video/VHS/etc? I'm looking to watch some games from the 2003 season again. E-mail me at DBA_Bod16@hotmail.com. Will pay for videos. Thanks.

Count Alex's Losses
11-17-2007, 12:52 AM
Not this is relevant here, but does anyone know how I can find old Chiefs games on video/VHS/etc? I'm looking to watch some games from the 2003 season again. E-mail me at DBA_Bod16@hotmail.com. Will pay for videos. Thanks.

Deb has them all.

http://www.chiefsgames.fanspace.com/catalog.html