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DaneMcCloud
01-02-2007, 10:13 AM
The Chiefs cannot and will not win the game in Indianapolis this weekend without at least an appearance by Damon Huard. In 8 games this year, Trent Green has 9 interceptions, 8 fumbles (5 recovered) and 7 touchdowns for a quarterback rating of 74.1.

Damon Huard in 10 games has 1 interception, 9 fumbles (5 recovered), and 11 touchdowns for a 98.0 quarterback rating.

Why numbers don't tell the entire story, it's clearly evident to anyone who actually watches the games that the offense moves efficiently and effectively with Huard at the reigns. With Green, it's sloppy, ineffective and consistently struggling.

I've seen reply after reply about people worried about Trent Green's psyche for "next year": Who gives a flying flip about next year? The Chiefs are in the playoffs THIS YEAR!

Green's done. I just hope that the Chiefs organization and Herm Edwards in particular are smart enough to realize it before it's too late. I'd really like to see a playoff win before another 12 years goes by...

Wile_E_Coyote
01-02-2007, 10:14 AM
Printers

Bowser
01-02-2007, 10:14 AM
Ah, Christ.

And it begins.

L.A. Chieffan
01-02-2007, 10:15 AM
I hear ya brotha, but Herm ain't got tha stones.

Chiefnj
01-02-2007, 10:15 AM
I was in favor of Green getting the nod as soon as he was healthy, but the Jax game changed my mind.

Green is simply making too many unforced mistakes. You can't do that in the playoffs, on the road.

WilliamTheIrish
01-02-2007, 10:20 AM
It is what it is, Dane. Might as well come to grips with it now.

hawkchief
01-02-2007, 10:20 AM
The Chiefs cannot and will not win the game in Indianapolis this weekend without at least an appearance by Damon Huard. In 8 games this year, Trent Green has 9 interceptions, 8 fumbles (5 recovered) and 7 touchdowns for a quarterback rating of 74.1.

Damon Huard in 10 games has 1 interception, 9 fumbles (5 recovered), and 11 touchdowns for a 98.0 quarterback rating.

Why numbers don't tell the entire story, it's clearly evident to anyone who actually watches the games that the offense moves efficiently and effectively with Huard at the reigns. With Green, it's sloppy, ineffective and consistently struggling.

I've seen reply after reply about people worried about Trent Green's psyche for "next year": Who gives a flying flip about next year? The Chiefs are in the playoffs THIS YEAR!

Green's done. I just hope that the Chiefs organization and Herm Edwards in particular are smart enough to realize it before it's too late. I'd really like to see a playoff win before another 12 years goes by...

Eerily reminiscent of when Marty chose Elvis over Gannon, except in this case, Trent has already shown us that he is not the guy. Plenty of factors point to Huard, but Herm is too stubborn to make a change. It's a shame to get the breaks we got to finally get in and likley watch the offense struggle again with Green. Hopefully a big dose of LJ will be sufficient.

DMAC
01-02-2007, 10:26 AM
Herm, at least have Trent on a short leash...You play to win the game...remember?


Do WHATEVER it takes to win.

Scorp
01-02-2007, 10:28 AM
Screw Huard..................let Croyle get his feet wet in the playoffs. That would breed a championship! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Raiderhader
01-02-2007, 10:28 AM
Oh yeah, sure, a game where running the ball is going to be the factor and a bunch of tools with Huard's man goo on their faces automatically chalk the game up to a loss because of who will be handing the ball off to LJ. What a bunch of tards.

Has Huard EVER played in a playoff game?

kaplin42
01-02-2007, 10:29 AM
The Chiefs cannot and will not win the game in Indianapolis this weekend without at least an appearance by Damon Huard. In 8 games this year, Trent Green has 9 interceptions, 8 fumbles (5 recovered) and 7 touchdowns for a quarterback rating of 74.1.

Damon Huard in 10 games has 1 interception, 9 fumbles (5 recovered), and 11 touchdowns for a 98.0 quarterback rating.

Why numbers don't tell the entire story, it's clearly evident to anyone who actually watches the games that the offense moves efficiently and effectively with Huard at the reigns. With Green, it's sloppy, ineffective and consistently struggling.

I've seen reply after reply about people worried about Trent Green's psyche for "next year": Who gives a flying flip about next year? The Chiefs are in the playoffs THIS YEAR!

Green's done. I just hope that the Chiefs organization and Herm Edwards in particular are smart enough to realize it before it's too late. I'd really like to see a playoff win before another 12 years goes by...


:doh!:

hawkchief
01-02-2007, 10:32 AM
Oh yeah, sure, a game where running the ball is going to be the factor and a bunch of tools with Huard's man goo on their faces automatically chalk the game up to a loss because of who will be handing the ball off to LJ. What a bunch of tards.

Has Huard EVER played in a playoff game?

And how many playoff games has Green won?

Hoover
01-02-2007, 10:34 AM
And how many playoff games has Green won?
So then we shouldn't start TG or Shields either correct?

DaneMcCloud
01-02-2007, 10:35 AM
Oh yeah, sure, a game where running the ball is going to be the factor and a bunch of tools with Huard's man goo on their faces automatically chalk the game up to a loss because of who will be handing the ball off to LJ. What a bunch of tards.

Has Huard EVER played in a playoff game?

Has Green ever WON a playoff game? What makes you think that Green will suddenly begin playing well? Sunday's performance?

Trent Green is playing absolutely HORRIBLY and the Chiefs have won IN SPITE of his playing.

Can't you see that?

WilliamTheIrish
01-02-2007, 10:37 AM
It is what it is, Dane. Better come to grips with it now.

mikey23545
01-02-2007, 10:37 AM
Oh yeah, sure, a game where running the ball is going to be the factor and a bunch of tools with Huard's man goo on their faces automatically chalk the game up to a loss because of who will be handing the ball off to LJ. What a bunch of tards.

Has Huard EVER played in a playoff game?

True, Green's one appearance in a playoff game would seem an overwhelming advantage....

Raiderhader
01-02-2007, 10:38 AM
And how many playoff games has Green won?



That's just silly, the same number as Huard. Therefore next in line is how many has either played in. Green may only have one playoff game under his belt, but it is one more than Huard.

In the big game most managers want their most experienced guy on the mound, why that concept is suddenly being forgotten is beyond me.

Deberg_1990
01-02-2007, 10:39 AM
I dont know..Maybe Green will finally put it all together for one magical time??

Who knows?? Im really torn.....i think he at least deserves to start, but if he plays crappy, then i wouldnt hesitate to pull him.

Raiderhader
01-02-2007, 10:41 AM
Has Green ever WON a playoff game? What makes you think that Green will suddenly begin playing well? Sunday's performance?

Trent Green is playing absolutely HORRIBLY and the Chiefs have won IN SPITE of his playing.

Can't you see that?



No, Green has never won a playoff game, but neither has Huard. How think that makes him the savior is just plain stupid.

I posted in another thread what starting the guy with lesser experience did for the donks, stop and think about that for moment while you are licking that goo off your lips.

KCJohnny
01-02-2007, 10:42 AM
I think its safe to say Huard has had a lot more exposure to the Colts, all those years in Miami.

Bowser
01-02-2007, 10:48 AM
This is stupid.

Anybody here that think Trent Green isn't going to be prepared and up for this game is out of their f*cking minds. Trent has been snakebit in the playoffs - the whole Kurt Warner thing, and outplaying, yes -OUTPLAYING, Peyton Manning in Jan. 2004 and losing due to the boneheadedness of Johnny Morton and Marc Boerigter. Trent has a gorilla the size of Rhode Island on his back that he just can't wait to knock off.

I hope the Colts think like most of you guys and believe we don't have a chance if Huard isn't under center.

DON'T F*CKING SLEEP ON TRENT GREEN!!

hawkchief
01-02-2007, 10:48 AM
That's just silly, the same number as Huard. Therefore next in line is how many has either played in. Green may only have one playoff game under his belt, but it is one more than Huard.

In the big game most managers want their most experienced guy on the mound, why that concept is suddenly being forgotten is beyond me.

Have you been watching the games?

Green has looked like crap with the season on the line over the past several weeks. To deny that he has looked much inferior to Huard this season is simply absurd. It's one thing to want experience, but another to turn a blind eye to better talent.

I love Trent, and think he has been great for the Chiefs, but he is not right, and our coaching staff has had ample opportunity to see it.

NewChief
01-02-2007, 10:48 AM
It's going to be so sweet bumping all these threads Saturday when Trent plays lights out and leads us to victory.

jAZ
01-02-2007, 10:48 AM
With our likely game plan for Indy, I could be the QB and it wouldn't change out likelyhood of win/loss.

We will run the ball 100 times and hope our defense stops Manning on a few drives.

DaneMcCloud
01-02-2007, 10:50 AM
No, Green has never won a playoff game, but neither has Huard. How think that makes him the savior is just plain stupid.

I posted in another thread what starting the guy with lesser experience did for the donks, stop and think about that for moment while you are licking that goo off your lips.

Green has played horribly. Please convince me otherwise. Without the stupid innuendo.

LiL stumppy
01-02-2007, 10:50 AM
He's a backup for a reason. First of all you dont bench a player due to an injury. Second of all i'm pretty sure we just won yesterday agaisnt a decent team with Green. Either way,this week Huard nor Green will have a big effect. Its all going to be LJ and MB. Hvae faith in a QB that has gave us more than Huard ever will.

DaneMcCloud
01-02-2007, 10:54 AM
He's a backup for a reason. First of all you dont bench a player due to an injury. Second of all i'm pretty sure we just won yesterday agaisnt a decent team with Green. Either way,this week Huard nor Green will have a big effect. Its all going to be LJ and MB. Hvae faith in a QB that has gave us more than Huard ever will.

Poster Child qoute for Green "He's a backup for a reason".

Uh, wasn't Trent Green a backup for his first 5 seasons? Wasn't Trent Green a backup to Kurt Warner in St. Louis after his injury? I mean, how stupid is this line of thinking?

Convince me, based on his play, why Trent Green will win in Indy? Not last year's Trent Green or 2003 Trent Green, 2006 Trent Green.

The Chiefs cannot go no the road and turn the ball over. That's all TrInt has done since he returned.

luv
01-02-2007, 10:55 AM
With out likely game plan for Indy, I could be the QB and it wouldn't change out likelyhood of win/loss.

We will run the ball 100 times and hope our defense stops Manning on a few drives.
I agree with this. Our D tends to be very inconsistant. Let's hope this Saturday is a day when they've got everything together. Otherwise, it won't matter who our QB is.

DaneMcCloud
01-02-2007, 10:55 AM
It's going to be so sweet bumping all these threads Saturday when Trent plays lights out and leads us to victory.

IF that happens, I'll be more than happy to eat crow.

WilliamTheIrish
01-02-2007, 10:58 AM
IF that happens, I'll be more than happy to eat crow.

It is what it is, Dane. Better come to grips with it now.

Skip Towne
01-02-2007, 10:58 AM
I'm wondering if Trent's depth perception has been altered by his injury. Since his return he has thrown numerous balls at the receiver's feet.

jjjayb
01-02-2007, 10:59 AM
Convince me, based on his play, why Trent Green will win in Indy? Not last year's Trent Green or 2003 Trent Green, 2006 Trent Green.



Because it's the Colts we'll be playing. Not a top 10 defense.

KCJohnny
01-02-2007, 10:59 AM
He's a backup for a reason. First of all you dont bench a player due to an injury. Second of all i'm pretty sure we just won yesterday agaisnt a decent team with Green. Either way,this week Huard nor Green will have a big effect. Its all going to be LJ and MB. Hvae faith in a QB that has gave us more than Huard ever will.

Uhhh, nice try, but if Ty Law doesn't pic Garrard and Pollard doesn't block that punt, Green's three turnovers seal our fate at home and we lose 30-21.

Raiderhader
01-02-2007, 11:01 AM
Have you been watching the games?

Green has looked like crap with the season on the line over the past several weeks. To deny that he has looked much inferior to Huard this season is simply absurd. It's one thing to want experience, but another to turn a blind eye to better talent.

I love Trent, and think he has been great for the Chiefs, but he is not right, and our coaching staff has had ample opportunity to see it.



BLIND EYE TO BETTER TALENT!? BLIND EYE TO BETTER TALENT!? Are you f#cking retarded? If Huard is really the second coming of Christ that you all have him pegged as, WHY HASN'T HE BEEN SIGNED AS A STARTER SOME WHERE? The man is a back up for a reason. Get it through your f#cking skulls. BACK UP. Good God, talk about blind eyes....

No, Green has not looked good, save for the Cleveland game. I do not deny that. However, when it comes down to the big game, give me the guy whith more experience, more heart and more leadership ability. I'll take the man who was running one of the besst offenses in the league over the course of 4 years over the guy who warming the f#cking bench during that time. I'll support the leader of my team even while going through the rough stages, because I know he can shake it off. He shook off 2001 and the TrINT moniker, he'll shake off this season too.

Unf#ckingbelievable. Trent had ought to tell this city to f#ck off. Thankfully he won't. Thankfully he will be under center this week. And thankfully we will win, not in spite of him, but with him.

hawkchief
01-02-2007, 11:02 AM
He's a backup for a reason. [B] Second of all i'm pretty sure we just won yesterday agaisnt a decent team with Green. Either way,this week Huard nor Green will have a big effect. Its all going to be LJ and MB. Hvae faith in a QB that has gave us more than Huard ever will.

That's a reasonable premise if said player comes back and plays at a level comparable to that prior to when he was injured. In this case, that isn't true, and Trent simply is not the player he was pior to Gaethers hit. The numbers don't lie.

If Huard had been poor, or even ordinary during his opportunity, I would feel differently, but he played very well, and until Green regains his confidence in the pocket, IMO Huard is a better option.

WilliamTheIrish
01-02-2007, 11:02 AM
Uhhh, nice try, but if Ty Law doesn't pic Garrard and Pollard doesn't block that punt, Green's three turnovers seal our fate at home and we lose 30-21.

Do better. All those things happened. And we won. Bad example.

Bowser
01-02-2007, 11:02 AM
Uhhh, nice try, but if Ty Law doesn't pic Garrard and Pollard doesn't block that punt, Green's three turnovers seal our fate at home and we lose 30-21.

This is a ridiculous statement. How do you know that Surtain wouldn't have taken the next pass to the house if Law misses his pick? Or how do you know that Dante wouldn't have scored if Pollard misses the block?

Skip Towne
01-02-2007, 11:03 AM
.

Why numbers don't tell the entire story, it's clearly evident to anyone who actually watches the games that the offense moves efficiently and effectively with Huard at the reigns. .
I hope they give him the reins instead of the reigns.

Raiderhader
01-02-2007, 11:04 AM
Uhhh, nice try, but if Ty Law doesn't pic Garrard and Pollard doesn't block that punt, Green's three turnovers seal our fate at home and we lose 30-21.



And if Huard doesn't get the deer in the headlights syndrome and try to throw three f#cking picks in Miami, we win.

I can play the if game too, Johnny.

Boyceofsummer
01-02-2007, 11:04 AM
of the Jacksonville game last night. What struck me was the thought of what if? What if Green does not make a horrid in-decision to slide on the scramble? Green does not hurt his ankle. Huard does not make another celebrity-guest appearance that results in a scoring drive and the margin of victory. What if?

KCJohnny
01-02-2007, 11:04 AM
This is a ridiculous statement. How do you know that Surtain wouldn't have taken the next pass to the house if Law misses his pick? Or how do you know that Dante wouldn't have scored if Pollard misses the block?

:rolleyes:

And how do you know Green doesn't throw ANOTHER PIC trying make something happen in the 4th quarter where we trail at home??? :banghead:

Bowser
01-02-2007, 11:06 AM
:rolleyes:

And how do you know Green doesn't throw ANOTHER PIC trying make something happen in the 4th quarter where we trail at home??? :banghead:

Why would we be trailing in the 4th quarter?

I can play the "what if" game all day long just as well as you can.

LiL stumppy
01-02-2007, 11:08 AM
Poster Child qoute for Green "He's a backup for a reason".

Uh, wasn't Trent Green a backup for his first 5 seasons? Wasn't Trent Green a backup to Kurt Warner in St. Louis after his injury? I mean, how stupid is this line of thinking?

Convince me, based on his play, why Trent Green will win in Indy? Not last year's Trent Green or 2003 Trent Green, 2006 Trent Green.

The Chiefs cannot go no the road and turn the ball over. That's all TrInt has done since he returned.

Trent Green won't win in Indy like I already stated. LJ and MB will. Trent Green is better than Huard ever has or ever will be.

KCJohnny
01-02-2007, 11:09 AM
And if Huard doesn't get the deer in the headlights syndrome and try to throw three f#cking picks in Miami, we win.

I can play the if game too, Johnny.

Where are these three INTs?


PASSING ATT CMP YDS SK/YD TD LG IN RT
D.Huard 38 15 201 3/16 0 31 0 57.0


BTW, that was one game.

LiL stumppy
01-02-2007, 11:10 AM
That's a reasonable premise if said player comes back and plays at a level comparable to that prior to when he was injured. In this case, that isn't true, and Trent simply is not the player he was pior to Gaethers hit. The numbers don't lie.

If Huard had been poor, or even ordinary during his opportunity, I would feel differently, but he played very well, and until Green regains his confidence in the pocket, IMO Huard is a better option.

In that case, how would Green re-gain the confidence if hes sitting on the bench?

KCJohnny
01-02-2007, 11:11 AM
Why would we be trailing in the 4th quarter?

I can play the "what if" game all day long just as well as you can.

Oh right, blocked punts and INTs returned to the 1-yd line are just as common as other methods of scoring in the NFL. Gimmee a break. If Pollard doesn't block that punt and Law doesn't steal Garrard's throw, we would have been trailing in ther 4th quarter and you KNOW it.

Without the special teams play and the defensive steal, Green's output in 90% of the game is 14 points.

Chiefnj
01-02-2007, 11:13 AM
He's a backup for a reason. First of all you dont bench a player due to an injury. Second of all i'm pretty sure we just won yesterday agaisnt a decent team with Green. Either way,this week Huard nor Green will have a big effect. Its all going to be LJ and MB. Hvae faith in a QB that has gave us more than Huard ever will.


GAVE being the important word; past tense.

Sure-Oz
01-02-2007, 11:13 AM
Better not watch, cause green is starting....I don't see Huard coming in unless it's an injury.

LiL stumppy
01-02-2007, 11:13 AM
Uhhh, nice try, but if Ty Law doesn't pic Garrard and Pollard doesn't block that punt, Green's three turnovers seal our fate at home and we lose 30-21.

You can't say that,thats retarded. No one knows what would happen if those things did even happen. Why don't you keep the what if's out of your next statements so you sound half-way intelegent.

Bowser
01-02-2007, 11:15 AM
Oh right, blocked punts and INTs returned to the 1-yd line are just as common as other methods of scoring in the NFL. Gimmee a break. If Pollard doesn't block that punt and Law doesn't steal Garrard's throw, we would have been trailing in ther 4th quarter and you KNOW it.

No I don't, and neither do you. Who knows what might have happened. Maybe the game is close, and we go no huddle for the entire second half and rack up 31 points that way. Maybe the Jaguars do the same.

Your belief that Trent Green is going to lose this game for us is absurd. As I said, I fully believe in him and his "want-to" for this game, and however far we make it in the playoffs. AND, I'd be willing to bet Damon Huard does as well.

Raiderhader
01-02-2007, 11:15 AM
Where are these three INTs?


PASSING ATT CMP YDS SK/YD TD LG IN RT
D.Huard 38 15 201 3/16 0 31 0 57.0


BTW, that was one game.


Did you not notice the word "try"? One of those near picks cost us Tony G as he prevented it from being intercepted.

It may have been only one game, but it wasn't just a bad game for Huard. He got the deer in the headlights look against a solid D on the road, do you REALLY want to trust him in a game as important as a playoff game? Seriously, stop and think about that.

KCJohnny
01-02-2007, 11:16 AM
You can't say that,thats retarded. No one knows what would happen if those things did even happen. Why don't you keep the what if's out of your next statements so you sound half-way intelegent.

OK: Without the special teams play and the defensive steal, Green's output in 90% of the game is 14 points.

LiL stumppy
01-02-2007, 11:18 AM
OK: Without the special teams play and the defensive steal, Green's output in 90% of the game is 14 points.

LOL, thats so stupid. I can't even talk to a person like you. Dont watch if you want Huard to start. Because he wont be starting.

hawkchief
01-02-2007, 11:28 AM
BLIND EYE TO BETTER TALENT!? BLIND EYE TO BETTER TALENT!? Are you f#cking retarded? If Huard is really the second coming of Christ that you all have him pegged as, WHY HASN'T HE BEEN SIGNED AS A STARTER SOME WHERE? The man is a back up for a reason. Get it through your f#cking skulls. BACK UP. Good God, talk about blind eyes....

No, Green has not looked good, save for the Cleveland game. I do not deny that. However, when it comes down to the big game, give me the guy whith more experience, more heart and more leadership ability. I'll take the man who was running one of the besst offenses in the league over the course of 4 years over the guy who warming the f#cking bench during that time. I'll support the leader of my team even while going through the rough stages, because I know he can shake it off. He shook off 2001 and the TrINT moniker, he'll shake off this season too.

Unf#ckingbelievable. Trent had ought to tell this city to f#ck off. Thankfully he won't. Thankfully he will be under center this week. And thankfully we will win, not in spite of him, but with him.

Great job at having an adult conversation. Congratulations!

No need to act like this s no-brainer decision. Huard has played significantly better than Green, taking iinto account a reasonable sampling of both players abilities, THIS year. Huard will likely be signed this off-season for big $$$ to start for another team next year. Green's status as this teams' starter for next season is likely up in the air.

Trent, with all of his experience, in must-win situations, has shown over the past several weeks that he left something on the field in the Cincinatti game when his bell was rung. Simply put, he's not played well. Accept the reality of the situation, and minimize the internet tough-guy act, and you might be able to see why some people believe sticking with Trent, as much as most of us would like to, isn't the no- brainer you try and make it out to be.

I hopw we win next week with Trent since he will be the guy, but IMO Huard gives us a better chance.

DaneMcCloud
01-02-2007, 11:39 AM
Trent Green won't win in Indy like I already stated. LJ and MB will. Trent Green is better than Huard ever has or ever will be.

Whatever! Maybe Trent Green at his best (say, 2003) is a better QB or has a higher ceiling than Damon Huard, but right now, Huard is the better QB.

And that's all that matters.

patteeu
01-02-2007, 11:40 AM
Because it's the Colts we'll be playing. Not a top 10 defense.

Yep. Indy has had one of the leagues worst pass rushes this season and they are tied for 20th in interceptions so I don't think this is a game to get too uptight about Green. If he sucks this week when he has time to throw and what I expect to be an effective run game, then the Huard argument becomes more compelling for the second round (if there is a second round for the Chiefs).

DaneMcCloud
01-02-2007, 11:40 AM
BLIND EYE TO BETTER TALENT!? BLIND EYE TO BETTER TALENT!? Are you f#cking retarded? If Huard is really the second coming of Christ that you all have him pegged as, WHY HASN'T HE BEEN SIGNED AS A STARTER SOME WHERE? The man is a back up for a reason. Get it through your f#cking skulls. BACK UP. Good God, talk about blind eyes....

No, Green has not looked good, save for the Cleveland game. I do not deny that. However, when it comes down to the big game, give me the guy whith more experience, more heart and more leadership ability. I'll take the man who was running one of the besst offenses in the league over the course of 4 years over the guy who warming the f#cking bench during that time. I'll support the leader of my team even while going through the rough stages, because I know he can shake it off. He shook off 2001 and the TrINT moniker, he'll shake off this season too.

Unf#ckingbelievable. Trent had ought to tell this city to f#ck off. Thankfully he won't. Thankfully he will be under center this week. And thankfully we will win, not in spite of him, but with him.

Wow, I think it YOU that needs to wipe the "goo" of their chin. You're freakin' delusional.

How's that workin' for ya?

DaneMcCloud
01-02-2007, 11:42 AM
Did you not notice the word "try"? One of those near picks cost us Tony G as he prevented it from being intercepted.

It may have been only one game, but it wasn't just a bad game for Huard. He got the deer in the headlights look against a solid D on the road, do you REALLY want to trust him in a game as important as a playoff game? Seriously, stop and think about that.

By that line of thinking, TrInt shouldn't have started after the 2001 season. 24 Int's! Also, Trent should have been pulled after last year's Buffalo game (13-3 loss).

Your line of thinking makes no sense.

StcChief
01-02-2007, 11:42 AM
Any numbers with Trent indoor on Turf.

Sure-Oz
01-02-2007, 11:48 AM
1st offensive play, flea flicker bomb, start off with a bang!

tk13
01-02-2007, 11:52 AM
It shouldn't matter this week. It really shouldn't matter. Whoever is the QB should be good at handing the ball to LJ. I have faith Trent can do that. I also think, he's not stupid, he knows he can't do what he did on Sunday. It requires putting faith in somebody, yes, but I don't think this is like Grbac. I trust Trent Green 1000 times more than I do Grbac, I'm sure Trent knows how lucky he is to have this opportunity.

Plus, and I've said this 18 million times, and nobody listens. But Huard did not play THAT well on the road, either, especially against playoff caliber teams. I do think Huard played better at home than Trent did, but on the road, ehhh. The Denver game, Pittsburgh, Miiami... Huard did not do anything all that spectacular. He had 0 TD and 1 INT in those games, completed just over 50% of his passes. I think Trent can do that.

The other funny thing is, if Eddie Kennison doesn't make the catch of his life the other day, we might not even be having this discussion. But I honestly think we can go into Indy and win with both guys.

petegz28
01-02-2007, 12:19 PM
Funny it tooka blocked punt and a Ty Law interception for Huard to beat the Cards.

Raiderhader
01-02-2007, 12:22 PM
Great job at having an adult conversation. Congratulations!

No need to act like this s no-brainer decision. Huard has played significantly better than Green, taking iinto account a reasonable sampling of both players abilities, THIS year. Huard will likely be signed this off-season for big $$$ to start for another team next year. Green's status as this teams' starter for next season is likely up in the air.

Trent, with all of his experience, in must-win situations, has shown over the past several weeks that he left something on the field in the Cincinatti game when his bell was rung. Simply put, he's not played well. Accept the reality of the situation, and minimize the internet tough-guy act, and you might be able to see why some people believe sticking with Trent, as much as most of us would like to, isn't the no- brainer you try and make it out to be.

I hopw we win next week with Trent since he will be the guy, but IMO Huard gives us a better chance.



Adult conversations went out the window with Huard obsessors long ago. You guys live in another universe, trying to apply logic to a discussion on the subject with you is a waste of time, I gave up on some time back.

Chiefnj
01-02-2007, 12:25 PM
...but on the road, ehhh. The Denver game, Pittsburgh, Miiami... Huard did not do anything all that spectacular. He had 0 TD and 1 INT in those games, completed just over 50% of his passes. I think Trent can do that.



Unfortunately Trent has NOT been doing that. He's been throwing a lot more INTs than Huard did. You can make a playoff run with a "Dilfer" at QB. Right now Green has been hurting the team with his turnovers.

Raiderhader
01-02-2007, 12:25 PM
Wow, I think it YOU that needs to wipe the "goo" of their chin. You're freakin' delusional.

How's that workin' for ya?



Delusional? From the guy that thinks a back up with limited playing time in his career is the answer over a guy who has led one of the top offenses in the league (with shit for WRs no less), well, that is really something special.

Raiderhader
01-02-2007, 12:28 PM
By that line of thinking, TrInt shouldn't have started after the 2001 season. 24 Int's! Also, Trent should have been pulled after last year's Buffalo game (13-3 loss).

Your line of thinking makes no sense.



It makes perfect sense because Trent was the starter at the time. Huard is a back up playing a back up role to the injured starter. My line of thinking is perfectly fine.

Raiderhader
01-02-2007, 12:30 PM
It shouldn't matter this week. It really shouldn't matter. Whoever is the QB should be good at handing the ball to LJ. I have faith Trent can do that. I also think, he's not stupid, he knows he can't do what he did on Sunday. It requires putting faith in somebody, yes, but I don't think this is like Grbac. I trust Trent Green 1000 times more than I do Grbac, I'm sure Trent knows how lucky he is to have this opportunity.

Plus, and I've said this 18 million times, and nobody listens. But Huard did not play THAT well on the road, either, especially against playoff caliber teams. I do think Huard played better at home than Trent did, but on the road, ehhh. The Denver game, Pittsburgh, Miiami... Huard did not do anything all that spectacular. He had 0 TD and 1 INT in those games, completed just over 50% of his passes. I think Trent can do that.

The other funny thing is, if Eddie Kennison doesn't make the catch of his life the other day, we might not even be having this discussion. But I honestly think we can go into Indy and win with both guys.



Here is your adult conversation. I underlined the key reason why I rarely bother to engage in it any more on this subject.

Dave Lane
01-02-2007, 12:40 PM
I was in favor of Green getting the nod as soon as he was healthy, but the Jax game changed my mind.

Green is simply making too many unforced mistakes. You can't do that in the playoffs, on the road.

Seems odd that Green is bad when he plays Jags, Bolts, RAvens.... Hmmm I wonder if there is a theme there anywhere?

Dave

Reerun_KC
01-02-2007, 12:43 PM
Sucks Dane is going to miss this game. We are in the playoffs and all he can do is bitch about the clipboard holder?

DaneMcCloud
01-02-2007, 12:51 PM
Sucks Dane is going to miss this game. We are in the playoffs and all he can do is bitch about the clipboard holder?

How am I going to miss the game? I'm having a party at my place!

Calcountry
01-02-2007, 12:54 PM
I was in favor of Green getting the nod as soon as he was healthy, but the Jax game changed my mind.

Green is simply making too many unforced mistakes. You can't do that in the playoffs, on the road.It would be one thing, if the Defense were making plays to make the picks, but they are usually the result of poor game management decisions by Trent. Rookies make those kind of mistakes. Forcing passes that should be thrown out of bounds, trying to roll out when he should just get rid of the ball or take the sack. And this, of all things, not getting the fug down early enough on the QB slide.

This all shows tentativeness and lack of command.

Huard came in and stepped up in the pocket and made plays. The offense blocked cleaner for Larry when he was in.

This is a tough call, but I would start Green, but yank him after his first screw up.

Simple as that.

Reerun_KC
01-02-2007, 12:55 PM
How am I going to miss the game? I'm having a party at my place!


My bad, I thought you said you wasnt watching it if Trent was starting?

Maybe I miss read something... My bad!


Where is the party?

Dartgod
01-02-2007, 01:02 PM
Funny it tooka blocked punt and a Ty Law interception for Huard to beat the Cards.$100 says KCJohnny ignores this post.

Uhhh, nice try, but if Ty Law doesn't pic Leinart and Pollard doesn't block that punt, we lose 20-13.

DaneMcCloud
01-02-2007, 01:06 PM
Delusional? From the guy that thinks a back up with limited playing time in his career is the answer over a guy who has led one of the top offenses in the league (with shit for WRs no less), well, that is really something special.

So based on Green's play this year, you feel he should start? Really? I seriously think you're way, way off base AND you have no factual DATA to support your position.

KCJohnny
01-02-2007, 01:07 PM
$100 says KCJohnny ignores this post.

Cha-ching!!!!!! ROFL

I was not making the argument that D and STs didn't help both QBs (go back and read it). I was saying w/o the blocked punt and the INT to the 1 yd line, Green's O delivered 14 points the whole game.

Now, how do I collect my share of the century note? :hmmm:

Chiefnj
01-02-2007, 01:09 PM
Seems odd that Green is bad when he plays Jags, Bolts, RAvens.... Hmmm I wonder if there is a theme there anywhere?

Dave

Unfortunately for Trent the Browns aren't the #3 seed.

Trent has had one good game since his return - the Browns. That's it. Take away the Cleveland game and Trent has a very poor 64.8 QB rating. That isn't going to cut it in the post season.

Everyone wants to talk about the Colts poor running game. Yep, it's true - they suck against the run. However, even with their poor defense they are undefeated at home and the Chiefs are a poor road team. The Chiefs should go with the QB that is making fewer mistakes.

Dartgod
01-02-2007, 01:10 PM
Cha-ching!!!!!! ROFL

I was not making the argument that D and STs didn't help both QBs (go back and read it). I was saying w/o the blocked punt and the INT to the 1 yd line, Green's O delivered 14 points the whole game.

Now, how do I collect my share of the century note? :hmmm:
Haha! Good luck with that.

KCJohnny
01-02-2007, 01:12 PM
Unfortunately for Trent the Browns aren't the #3 seed.

Trent has had one good game since his return - the Browns. That's it. Take away the Cleveland game and Trent has a very poor 64.8 QB rating. That isn't going to cut it in the post season.

Everyone wants to talk about the Colts poor running game. Yep, it's true - they suck against the run. However, even with their poor defense they are undefeated at home and the Chiefs are a poor road team. The Chiefs should go with the QB that is making fewer mistakes.

If you PLAY TO WIN THE GAME, I can't see how anyone can argue with Chiefnj's argument.

KCJohnny
01-02-2007, 01:12 PM
Haha! Good luck with that.

Big talker. :shake:

Brock
01-02-2007, 01:26 PM
Pretty dumb to think it's going to come down to who the Chiefs QB is. Huard, Green, or whoever, it's going to come down to knocking Manning down repeatedly.

Raiderhader
01-02-2007, 01:36 PM
So based on Green's play this year, you feel he should start? Really? I seriously think you're way, way off base AND you have no factual DATA to support your position.



No. Based on the play of the two QBs over the span of their careers I go with Green for experience. He has been down before and shown he knows how to shake it off. I believe he will. This is most likely his last real shot at a ring as a starter, he'll make the necessary adjustments.

Huard just does not have the experience to fall back on in a big game like this. He is an unknown factor in this scenario. I'll take the leader of one of the top offenses versus a who know's what the hell to expect guy. The playoffs is not the time to start experimenting with the most important position on the offense. You go with the guy that has a proven track record, not the guy who only has a few starts under his belt.

DaneMcCloud
01-02-2007, 02:08 PM
No. Based on the play of the two QBs over the span of their careers I go with Green for experience. He has been down before and shown he knows how to shake it off. I believe he will. This is most likely his last real shot at a ring as a starter, he'll make the necessary adjustments.

That's were we totally disagree. When a QB's play falls off, he's done. It's not coming back. Not at age 36.

Not a believer.

WilliamTheIrish
01-02-2007, 02:43 PM
Funny it tooka blocked punt and a Ty Law interception for Huard to beat the Cards.

End of thread.

KCJohnny
01-02-2007, 02:49 PM
That's were we totally disagree. When a QB's play falls off, he's done. It's not coming back. Not at age 36.

Not a believer.

Case in point:
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/011600/spf_1815766.html

A horrible way to end a brilliant career... :shake:

Bob Dole
01-02-2007, 02:52 PM
You go with the guy that has a proven track record, not the guy who only has a few starts under his belt.

So we go with the guy whose proven track record is 0-1 in the playoffs?

We should be more concerned about missing Rich Scanlon's contributions.

Dartgod
01-02-2007, 02:53 PM
Case in point:
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/011600/spf_1815766.html

A horrible way to end a brilliant career... :shake:
WTF? :spock:

What does that have to do with anything?

htismaqe
01-02-2007, 03:04 PM
WTF? :spock:

What does that have to do with anything?

Exactly my question.

petegz28
01-02-2007, 03:06 PM
So we go with the guy whose proven track record is 0-1 in the playoffs?

We should be more concerned about missing Rich Scanlon's contributions.


Right that 0-1 was all his fault. It was Green's fault Indy never had to punt. Nevermind Green put up 31 points.

Lzen
01-02-2007, 03:13 PM
Has Green ever WON a playoff game? What makes you think that Green will suddenly begin playing well? Sunday's performance?

Trent Green is playing absolutely HORRIBLY and the Chiefs have won IN SPITE of his playing.

Can't you see that?

I don't think you can go by Trent's playoff wins. That's not really fair because he has had few chances. The last chance he had, he played about as well as a QB can play. The defense didn't force a single punt and Priest had a critical fumble.

I agree that Trent has not been playing as well as he has in the past for the Chiefs. But I wouldn't say that he's been playing horribly. Stop being such a drama queen. That beauty of a pass on the flea flicker last Sunday was excellent. He also played pretty well against Oakland who was ranked in the top 5 defenses at the time. I'm not sure Huard would do any better.

DaneMcCloud
01-02-2007, 03:19 PM
I don't think you can go by Trent's playoff wins. That's not really fair because he has had few chances. The last chance he had, he played about as well as a QB can play. The defense didn't force a single punt and Priest had a critical fumble.

I agree that Trent has not been playing as well as he has in the past for the Chiefs. But I wouldn't say that he's been playing horribly. Stop being such a drama queen. That beauty of a pass on the flea flicker last Sunday was excellent. He also played pretty well against Oakland who was ranked in the top 5 defenses at the time. I'm not sure Huard would do any better.


8 Games, 9 interceptions, 5 fumbles (3 recovered), 7 TD's. 74.1 QB rating. 4-4 record.

Does that sound like a winner? Don't those stats look horrible? If that were Huard's numbers, this wouldn't even be an issue. But they're THE STARTING QB'S NUMBERS!.

If the starting QB's name wasn't Trent Green, the city would have run him out on a rail by the end of yesterday's game, if not sooner.

How are those not horrible numbers?

KCJohnny
01-02-2007, 03:24 PM
8 Games, 9 interceptions, 5 fumbles (3 recovered), 7 TD's. 74.1 QB rating. 4-4 record.

Does that sound like a winner? Don't those stats look horrible? If that were Huard's numbers, this wouldn't even be an issue. But they're THE STARTING QB'S NUMBERS!.

If the starting QB's name wasn't Trent Green, the city would have run him out on a rail by the end of yesterday's game, if not sooner.

How are those not horrible numbers?

And if Huard doesn't come in and lead the team to am immediate TD, we might have lost that game 30-28.

Lzen
01-02-2007, 03:26 PM
Did you not notice the word "try"? One of those near picks cost us Tony G as he prevented it from being intercepted.

It may have been only one game, but it wasn't just a bad game for Huard. He got the deer in the headlights look against a solid D on the road, do you REALLY want to trust him in a game as important as a playoff game? Seriously, stop and think about that.
Huard has got to be the luckiest SOB at QB that I've ever seen. He had several of his passes where the defender got his hands on the ball only to not make the pick. Huard's numbers are gaudy but if you watch the games, you can tell that he's not better than Green.

edit: if you watch the games and you know anything about football, you can tell that he's not better than Green.

petegz28
01-02-2007, 03:28 PM
And if Huard doesn't come in and lead the team to am immediate TD, we might have lost that game 30-28.


You mean if Kennison doesn't make an all-world catch right?

DaneMcCloud
01-02-2007, 03:38 PM
edit: if you watch the games and you know anything about football, you can tell that he's not better than Green.

And if you watch the games and know football, Huard is 5-2 with 11 TD's and ONE interception with a 98.0 QB rating.

I don't give a flyin' flip whether you think Green is better. Green has been UNDERPERFORMING since his return (and honestly, he wasn't exactly lighting it up in the Bengals game).

So, who would you rather have at QB? Trent Dilfer or Dan Marino?

htismaqe
01-02-2007, 03:42 PM
And if you watch the games and know football, Huard is 5-2 with 11 TD's and ONE interception with a 98.0 QB rating.

I don't give a flyin' flip whether you think Green is better. Green has been UNDERPERFORMING since his return (and honestly, he wasn't exactly lighting it up in the Bengals game).

So, who would you rather have at QB? Trent Dilfer or Dan Marino?

So are you suggesting that the passes that hit defenders in the numbers but they dropped never happened?

KCJohnny
01-02-2007, 03:43 PM
You mean if Kennison doesn't make an all-world catch right?

He can't catch it if it isn't thrown right. Some catches ARE spectacular - and that was definitely one of them, but you are wrong to assert that it was spectacular because it was poorly thrown - it was not. Eddie reached out to snag it with one hand, that's why it looked so spectacular, and then did all-pro footwork staying in bounds. That was the only spot the ball could have been thrown to w/o risking an INT or just throwing it out of bounds. And I guess you must not have seen the Jax lineman flattening DH on the exact second of his release.... :rolleyes:

Bowser
01-02-2007, 03:43 PM
Ugh...

KCJohnny
01-02-2007, 03:44 PM
So are you suggesting that the passes that hit defenders in the numbers but they dropped never happened?

Uhh, are you willing to apply that same standard to Trent Green? :hmmm:

Lzen
01-02-2007, 03:47 PM
$100 says KCJohnny ignores this post.

I'm sure that he probably has a legitimate reason for missing that post. You know, like eating some pie or something.

KCJohnny
01-02-2007, 03:52 PM
I'm sure that he probably has a legitimate reason for missing that post. You know, like eating some pie or something.

I replied long ago to that fraud, Dartgod, who likes to type cheeky things like that but won't pony up when called on it. But thanks for sharing. STFU

Lzen
01-02-2007, 03:52 PM
So are you suggesting that the passes that hit defenders in the numbers but they dropped never happened?

See a good argument that goes against your argument, ignore it. ;)

Lzen
01-02-2007, 03:56 PM
Huard did take a good shot just after he released that one. I made a comment about him getting blasted. That was a great job of staying in and making the throw knowing he was gonna get hit.

DaneMcCloud
01-02-2007, 03:58 PM
So are you suggesting that the passes that hit defenders in the numbers but they dropped never happened?

I'm suggestiong nothing. I gave you the FACTS. What you care to see is up to you.

Green has been nothing short of horrible. If he had played whole season, his numbers would have rivaled his "spectacular" numbers of 2001. But this time, he's not 31. He's 36. Coming off of an extremely serious injury.

How can anyone defend him?

htismaqe
01-02-2007, 04:01 PM
Uhh, are you willing to apply that same standard to Trent Green? :hmmm:

Of course.

Don't consider this as a defense of Trent Green. He hasn't played very well. I do think Huard should start against the Colts.

But the guy can't walk on water - he benefitted greatly from playing the good teams at home and the bad teams on the road. He benefitted greatly from having Larry Johnson behind him. And he benefitted greatly that, for whatever reason, defenders just flat-out dropped at least 3 sure INT's against him.

htismaqe
01-02-2007, 04:03 PM
I'm suggestiong nothing. I gave you the FACTS. What you care to see is up to you.

Green has been nothing short of horrible. If he had played whole season, his numbers would have rivaled his "spectacular" numbers of 2001. But this time, he's not 31. He's 36. Coming off of an extremely serious injury.

How can anyone defend him?

You gave me STATS. Stats, without the observed means that led to them, tell us nothing.

And I'm not defending Green. That fact that saying anything less than Green sucks equals "defending him" just shows how narrow-minded you are on the subject.

hawkchief
01-02-2007, 04:04 PM
Uhh, are you willing to apply that same standard to Trent Green? :hmmm:

Johnny, don't you get it, the Trent Green crowd doesn't want to deal with facts, statistics and QB ratings etc., they want to go with their "gut instincts", and try to denigrate the great job Huard has done this year and pretend it didn't happen. (Just like Green's abysmal performance didn't happen either since his return).

Many of these same posters have also already forgotten what a POS GM Carl Peterson has been for the past 10 years, since we finally snuck into the postseason.

ROYC75
01-02-2007, 04:05 PM
Need any of you be reminded what we looked like in Pittsburgh and Miami with Huard at the helm ? I'm not saying Green would have won those game either, but we had a watered down version of offense against a quality defense.........

DaneMcCloud
01-02-2007, 04:07 PM
Need any of you be reminded what we looked like in Pittsburgh and Miami with Huard at the helm ? I'm not saying Green would have won those game either, but we had a watered down version of offense against a quality defense.........

Need I remind you Trent's performance in the Bengals game? Ravens, Jaguars or Raiders game (throwing at LJ's and TG's feet consistently?)

htismaqe
01-02-2007, 04:08 PM
Johnny, don't you get it, the Trent Green crowd doesn't want to deal with facts, statistics and QB ratings etc., they want to go with their "gut instincts", and try to denigrate the great job Huard has done this year and pretend it didn't happen. (Just like Green's abysmal performance didn't happen either since his return).

Many of these same posters have also already forgotten what a POS GM Carl Peterson has been for the past 10 years, since we finally snuck into the postseason.

ROFL

Anything less than lock-step agreement with the "Carl sucks" crowd equals "defending" Carl.

Talk about ignorance.

DaneMcCloud
01-02-2007, 04:10 PM
You gave me STATS. Stats, without the observed means that led to them, tell us nothing.

And I'm not defending Green. That fact that saying anything less than Green sucks equals "defending him" just shows how narrow-minded you are on the subject.


I wasn't referring to "you" when I said that. I asked "How could *anyone* defend him", not you specifically.

I'm not "narrow" minded on the subject. I've seen 9 weeks of Trent Green and 9 weeks of Damon Huard. The team with Huard has outperformed the team with Green. Same thing happened in 2000 with the Ravens; their team performed better with Dilfer than with Banks, thus a Super Bowl victory.

IMO, the team of 1997 performed better with Gannon than with Grbac. The results speak for themselves.

Halfcan
01-02-2007, 04:12 PM
I have the utmost respect for Green and the stability he has brought to the QB position the last few years. It has been tough watching him play so badly with the errant passes and fumbles.

I hate to say it but the team seems to get a spark when Damon comes in. I think he gives us the best chance to win.

KCJohnny
01-02-2007, 04:19 PM
Of course.

Don't consider this as a defense of Trent Green. He hasn't played very well. I do think Huard should start against the Colts.

But the guy can't walk on water - he benefitted greatly from playing the good teams at home and the bad teams on the road. He benefitted greatly from having Larry Johnson behind him. And he benefitted greatly that, for whatever reason, defenders just flat-out dropped at least 3 sure INT's against him.

OK. I don't have all the game tape, but off the top of my head I would be willing to gander that Trent had at least 3 INTs dropped by defenders. I saw one of them on Sunday. Then there the 9 actual INTs... I hear what you are saying, I am not saying Huard = Dawson, I am just saying as you are, he gives the Chiefs the best chance to win now.

WilliamTheIrish
01-02-2007, 04:32 PM
Johnny, don't you get it, the Trent Green crowd doesn't want to deal with facts, statistics and QB ratings etc., they want to go with their "gut instincts", and try to denigrate the great job Huard has done this year and pretend it didn't happen. (Just like Green's abysmal performance didn't happen either since his return).

Many of these same posters have also already forgotten what a POS GM Carl Peterson has been for the past 10 years, since we finally snuck into the postseason.

Green's the starter. Come to grips with it now. Nothing you whine about on this board is going to change that.
And equating this to Grbac/Gannon only reinforces how incredibly dense you are.

Calcountry
01-02-2007, 05:15 PM
WTF? :spock:

What does that have to do with anything?Forget about it, He's rolling.

KCJohnny
01-02-2007, 05:23 PM
Johnny, don't you get it, the Trent Green crowd doesn't want to deal with facts, statistics and QB ratings etc., they want to go with their "gut instincts", and try to denigrate the great job Huard has done this year and pretend it didn't happen. (Just like Green's abysmal performance didn't happen either since his return).

Many of these same posters have also already forgotten what a POS GM Carl Peterson has been for the past 10 years, since we finally snuck into the postseason.

Gut instincts? I was at the game Sunday and if I had never seen either QB's stat line, it was clear that DH was more poised, confident, on target with his throws, the team seemed more confident with him in the lineup, the Chiefs immediately converted a 3rd and 2 with a lazer strike to Parker on a slant and then a 40 yard gain to Kennison with a Jag in his grill (Huard never saw the play). Then LJ punches it in on 3rd and goal - I don't know what instinct they are trusting, but it seems to me that its not a football instinct.

hawkchief
01-02-2007, 06:17 PM
Green's the starter. Come to grips with it now. Nothing you whine about on this board is going to change that.
And equating this to Grbac/Gannon only reinforces how incredibly dense you are.

Last time I checked, message boards were about stating your opinion. If calling people "dense" becasue their opinion differs from yours makes you feel like a tough guy, that's your own problem.

wazu
01-02-2007, 07:06 PM
Pretty dumb to think it's going to come down to who the Chiefs QB is. Huard, Green, or whoever, it's going to come down to knocking Manning down repeatedly.

Oh come on. You don't think it will matter? IT'S THE FRIGGIN QUARTEBACK! It almost always matters, especially when trying to pull out an upset on the road.

We wouldn't be in the playoffs without Huard. Huard may have been the difference in the Jacksonville game, and he only played one series.

Huard has been on fire this year. One down game where he threw one pick. Green has been horrid all year. One decent game where he still managed to throw one pick and do nothing in overtime. We would have won at least 10 games this year if Green had never come back.

I don't understand how anybody could watch all 16 games and not think it is painfully obvious that Huard gives us the best chance to win.

Brock
01-02-2007, 07:14 PM
Oh come on. You don't think it will matter? IT'S THE FRIGGIN QUARTEBACK! It almost always matters, especially when trying to pull out an upset on the road. .

Did I say I don't think it will matter? It sure as hell isn't going to be the deciding factor, take that to the bank. If the Chiefs fall behind by a couple of scores, game over, no matter who the QB is.

wazu
01-02-2007, 07:30 PM
Did I say I don't think it will matter? It sure as hell isn't going to be the deciding factor, take that to the bank. If the Chiefs fall behind by a couple of scores, game over, no matter who the QB is.

And a good way to avoid falling behind by a couple of scores is to not turn the ball over and make plays on third down. Running the ball all day is great, but they won't win without passing.

KCJohnny
01-02-2007, 07:39 PM
And a good way to avoid falling behind by a couple of scores is to not turn the ball over and make plays on third down. Running the ball all day is great, but they won't win without passing.

I would say that's the common sense position, anyway. Good post. :toast:

Brock
01-02-2007, 09:23 PM
And a good way to avoid falling behind by a couple of scores is to not turn the ball over and make plays on third down. Running the ball all day is great, but they won't win without passing.

Jacksonville made 23 first downs by rushing against the Colts and 4 by passing.

You tell me what the deciding factor is.

KCJohnny
01-02-2007, 09:33 PM
Jacksonville made 23 first downs by rushing against the Colts and 4 by passing.

You tell me what the deciding factor is.

Right, that was AT Jacksonville. In the RCA dome, Jax rushed for over 200 yards, controlled the ball for 39:24, and LOST 21-14. The reason? The stellar passing attack that produced 106 whole yards and 2 INTs. There's your smoking gun, folks.

I rest my case.
KCJ
;)

Raiderhader
01-02-2007, 11:23 PM
End of thread.



It should of been, but some of these people aren't really interested in "adult conversations".

Raiderhader
01-02-2007, 11:25 PM
Last time I checked, message boards were about stating your opinion. If calling people "dense" becasue their opinion differs from yours makes you feel like a tough guy, that's your own problem.



Actually, that is his own opinion.....

RedThat
01-03-2007, 02:05 AM
Hate to say it. Trent isn't the same.

Could it be the age or the injury? Who knows?

I have respect for what he's done throughout his career here, but lately, he's not been playing like the Trent Green of old. I don't blame him entirely because that would be unfair. He came off a pretty serious injury. And lets face it, the offense has changed a bit under Herm Edwards. Could it also be an adjustment thing? He doesnt have Dick Vermeil and Al Saunders guiding him anymore, nor does he have that hall of fame tackle Willie Roaf.

I think it would also help if his receivers properly ran and timed their routes. You see this a lot. Miscommunication between the QB and the WR. Particularily Samie Parker...Uh it makes me sick.

However, his throws are a bit off. I see a lot of times, he underthrows.
And he holds onto the ball waaay too long. It pisses me off. Just get rid of the thing. I question his leadership ability also. I dont think he as vocal as a Tom Brady, or Peyton Manning. And never will be either.

*The Chiefs have to think, lately Green has been playing bad. Think about it for a sec? Last week, Jacksonville had no business being in that game, thanks to those turnovers by Green, that kept them in the game, good thing we still won...but if you do that in the playoffs, on the road, you lose the game. But in reality, what has Green done since he came back? He has led us to a 4-4 record. Thrown 7 TDs, and 9 INTs, QB rating of 74.1...But honestly, he turns the ball over and makes too many mistakes.

*Who cares what he has done in the past? You have to think now!
Right now he's been bad. We're in the playoffs now. HUARD has been playing better than Green, no question, and no comparison. Does he turn the ball over? No. Not like Green has. You gotta think what right at the present moment...Screw Greens track record, he is not the same...And wont give us the best chance to win.

*I know Huard has been lucky. Some of his throws coulda been picked off easily. But, even if they were picked off, his play is still better than the play of Trent right now. No question about it.

CupidStunt
01-03-2007, 03:27 AM
I'd be willing to buy that Huard's number are inflated, but quit with the BS about how he doesn't even look very good.

Green's passes look like GARBAGE. Remember that complete duck of a screen pass to Gonzalez? That just typifies Green's season: noodle-armed and inaccurate.

chagrin
01-03-2007, 05:28 AM
Actually, that is his own opinion.....

excellent point

Redcoats58
01-03-2007, 06:06 AM
BLIND EYE TO BETTER TALENT!? BLIND EYE TO BETTER TALENT!? Are you f#cking retarded? If Huard is really the second coming of Christ that you all have him pegged as, WHY HASN'T HE BEEN SIGNED AS A STARTER SOME WHERE? The man is a back up for a reason. Get it through your f#cking skulls. BACK UP. Good God, talk about blind eyes....

No, Green has not looked good, save for the Cleveland game. I do not deny that. However, when it comes down to the big game, give me the guy whith more experience, more heart and more leadership ability. I'll take the man who was running one of the besst offenses in the league over the course of 4 years over the guy who warming the f#cking bench during that time. I'll support the leader of my team even while going through the rough stages, because I know he can shake it off. He shook off 2001 and the TrINT moniker, he'll shake off this season too.

Unf#ckingbelievable. Trent had ought to tell this city to f#ck off. Thankfully he won't. Thankfully he will be under center this week. And thankfully we will win, not in spite of him, but with him.

Why should he tell this city to f*ck off? The guy is making millions here, and fans in any city are of the mentality of "what have you done for me lately?" And Green as much as I like the guy, hasn't done shit for this team lately. I was one of the original people who wanted Green back after injury and I'm willing to admit I was wrong. Green is not the same QB he was pre-injury and Huard has done and exceptional job and is the reason we are in the playoffs as much as LJ.

Now all of this doesn't really mean shit because Herm is starting Green and I hope I'm wrong again a second time.

Dartgod
01-03-2007, 07:09 AM
I question his leadership ability also. I dont think he as vocal as a Tom Brady, or Peyton Manning. And never will be either.
You can certainly argue that Huard has performed better this year than Green, but you are the second person that has questioned Green's leadership with this team, which is beyond idiotic.

Dartgod
01-03-2007, 07:17 AM
Banning in 5...4...3...2...1...

Chiefnj
01-03-2007, 07:31 AM
Jacksonville made 23 first downs by rushing against the Colts and 4 by passing.

You tell me what the deciding factor is.

And they lost to Indy in Indy in part because Byron threw two INT's. Even though they had the ball for 39 minutes and rushed for almost 200 yards, Jax lost because of two costly INTs.

Dartgod
01-03-2007, 07:39 AM
Right, that was AT Jacksonville. In the RCA dome, Jax rushed for over 200 yards, controlled the ball for 39:24, and LOST 21-14. The reason? The stellar passing attack that produced 106 whole yards and 2 INTs. There's your smoking gun, folks.

I rest my case.
KCJ
;)
So we're going to lose to the Colts if we start Green because Jacksonville's QB threw two picks against them and lost?

:spock:

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 08:19 AM
Last time I checked, message boards were about stating your opinion. If calling people "dense" becasue their opinion differs from yours makes you feel like a tough guy, that's your own problem.

You belittle other people's opinions all the time, but I guess it's ok for you because you hate Carl Peterson and that makes everything else OK.

Reerun_KC
01-03-2007, 08:27 AM
Right, that was AT Jacksonville. In the RCA dome, Jax rushed for over 200 yards, controlled the ball for 39:24, and LOST 21-14. The reason? The stellar passing attack that produced 106 whole yards and 2 INTs. There's your smoking gun, folks.

I rest my case.
KCJ
;)


My god loser, how many threads are you going to copy and paste your smoking weed theory in?

Come orginal or stay home..


Moron.

Lono
01-03-2007, 08:49 AM
No. Based on the play of the two QBs over the span of their careers I go with Green for experience. He has been down before and shown he knows how to shake it off. I believe he will. This is most likely his last real shot at a ring as a starter, he'll make the necessary adjustments.

Huard just does not have the experience to fall back on in a big game like this. He is an unknown factor in this scenario. I'll take the leader of one of the top offenses versus a who know's what the hell to expect guy. The playoffs is not the time to start experimenting with the most important position on the offense. You go with the guy that has a proven track record, not the guy who only has a few starts under his belt.

So if Priest was playing would you be pissed that he started over LJ in this game, I mean since he, by your theory would be the more experienced back? In my opinion Trent should start but if he starts throwing picks its time for Huard.

RedThat
01-03-2007, 09:32 AM
You can certainly argue that Huard has performed better this year than Green, but you are the second person that has questioned Green's leadership with this team, which is beyond idiotic.

Okay. Have you ever seen Trent fire guys up on the sidelines? Have you ever seen Trent yell at Samie Parker when he misruns or mistimes his routes? Have you ever seen Trent give a heck for messing up on his blocking? You never see that.

*Trent is NOT a leader, my point is, he doesn't show it. If he was, he'd show it.

Fairplay
01-03-2007, 09:36 AM
Okay. Have you ever seen Trent fire guys up on the sidelines? Have you ever seen Trent yell at Samie Parker when he misruns or mistimes his routes? Have you ever seen Trent give a heck for messing up on his blocking? You never see that.





I want him to yell at his players and physically abuse them.

That would show real leadership.

Dartgod
01-03-2007, 09:38 AM
Okay. Have you ever seen Trent fire guys up on the sidelines? Have you ever seen Trent yell at Samie Parker when he misruns or mistimes his routes? Have you ever seen Trent give a heck for messing up on his blocking? You never see that.

*Trent is NOT a leader, my point is, he doesn't show it. If he was, he'd show it.You have no idea what being a leader is all about. It's not about screaming and yelling at guys when they screw up.

How do you know what Trent says to them in the huddle? How do you know what goes on in the locker room?

Grbac was lambasted for his infamous "I can't throw the ball and catch it too" statement, yet Trent's not a leader because he doesn't call Parker out in public?

Or maybe you'd like him to throw the O-Line under the bus after yet another playoff loss, ala Manning?

Of all the Huard/Green arguements, this is by far the dumbest, most uninformed one I've seen. Pure idiocy...

Bowser
01-03-2007, 09:40 AM
HEY MODS! PRETTY PLEASE!!

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 09:42 AM
Drew Tate yelled and screamed at guys on the sideline and got in their face.

By the end of the season, they'd lost 6 conference games and WR's were hinting to the media that they couldn't wait for him to graduate...

Bowser
01-03-2007, 09:44 AM
Drew Tate yelled and screamed at guys on the sideline and got in their face.

By the end of the season, they'd lost 6 conference games and WR's were hinting to the media that they couldn't wait for him to graduate...

Heh. Can't remember the game, but even announcers were making comments about his "passion" not being well received by some of his teammates.

WilliamTheIrish
01-03-2007, 10:08 AM
My god loser, how many threads are you going to copy and paste your smoking weed theory in?

Come orginal or stay home..


Moron.

LMAO : "Come original or stay home"?

Okay, Clone.

crazycoffey
01-03-2007, 10:09 AM
I didn't read all the responses, so maybe it's already covered.

just found this as;

part of an article from Clark Judge on CBS sportsline. Reasons the chiefs are in the playoffs;


When Kansas City lost starting quarterback Trent Green in the season opener, Edwards vowed to change his offense. And he did, putting the group on the back of Larry Johnson and letting the All-Pro carry the club.

But you knew that. What you might not know is that behind the scenes Edwards brought the offense together in the wake of Green's departure, having his running backs meet regularly with the offensive line so that both could get ideas of what was best for Johnson. After all, if Johnson was going to be the featured performer, Edwards thought he and his blockers should know what to expect from each other.

"It was a way of fine-tuning our running game," Edwards said. "In my estimation, there were a lot of yards left out there on the field. When you get people together, you find it's easier for them to speak with each other; it's easier for a lineman to say, 'Here's where the hole will be; just run through it.'"

I think you know what happened. The Chiefs, who went 5-3 without Green, squeezed into the playoffs with Johnson carrying the ball an NFL-record 416 times -- including six games where he had 30 or more rushing attempts.

The formula for success wasn't new; Edwards did the same thing when he lost Chad Pennington in New York. In fact, the coach had his linemen and backs meet together there, too, to figure out what was best for Curtis Martin. Edwards also had his quarterbacks and receivers in the same room, as he did in Kansas City. The idea is to get everyone understanding what's expected of other positions. And it worked.

I don't care that Kansas City had to rely on San Francisco's upset to make it to this weekend. All I care about is that Edwards adjusted to a change in his lineup with a change in his routine ... and he reached the playoffs for the fourth time in six seasons as a head coach. When you're looking for reasons why the Chiefs are where they are, start with Edwards making sure his star running back knew what his offensive linemen wanted.

"It was just something I felt needed to be done," Edwards said.


Notice he didn't say they turned to Huard to save the day. They asked Huard to do his job as a back up QB. They asked the running game to save the season.

Trent is you starter and gives us the best option at QB, end of the Huard arguement.

RedThat
01-03-2007, 12:22 PM
You have no idea what being a leader is all about. It's not about screaming and yelling at guys when they screw up.

How do you know what Trent says to them in the huddle? How do you know what goes on in the locker room?

Grbac was lambasted for his infamous "I can't throw the ball and catch it too" statement, yet Trent's not a leader because he doesn't call Parker out in public?

Or maybe you'd like him to throw the O-Line under the bus after yet another playoff loss, ala Manning?

Of all the Huard/Green arguements, this is by far the dumbest, most uninformed one I've seen. Pure idiocy...

Well i just want to see some emotion being expressed...Its called paying attention to detail. Of course I dont know what goes on in the huddle, or what goes on in the locker room?

Im a fan, and go by with what I see and Im forced to judge things based on what I see. I see some QBs give a teammate crap for messing up. I seen guys like Favre snap when O-lineman make mistakes. I've seen Ray Lewis huddle guys up and express his emotion on the sidelines? Those are little things, but they SAY a lot! That is part of what being a leader is all about. Your telling me not expressing emotion on the sideline is not about being a leader?! Cmon...Reggie White Frickn yelled his lungs off, every time his defense messed up...Thats leadership, hes trying to get his message across...Cmon guys..HELLO? stop messn up! I dont frickn like it. Im gonna do something about it, and he led by example, not only from his play, but trying to bring guys together, and also back it up with his own play.

*Oh yeah and guess what? All those guys have one thing in common, they've won a SB.

ROYC75
01-03-2007, 12:38 PM
Hot damn, Mrs Hootie Huard has her minions in full force.........

Let it go people before it gets as bad as Grbac vs Gannon.

TRR
01-03-2007, 12:58 PM
Trent Green deserves the nod at QB against Indy. If Green puts up a terrible game in the playoffs, then KC can re-think the starting QB for next season. But for all that Green has done for KC the last several years, he deserves a shot at righting the ship.

I'm with others that say Green will neither win or lose this ball game for KC. Just like last time, I think KC's ability to disrupt Manning will be the key. I hope Gun blitzes on every down. At least then, we'll know that KC didn't sit back and let Manning pick them apart.

**I still don't think Solari plays to Green's strength's either. Playaction is what made Green a 4,000 yard passer. Everytime I see Green in the shotgun, I just about puke. Same goes for when LJ runs a sweep play. Green needs the playaction to be successful. Hopefully Solari will get back to that against Indy.

DaneMcCloud
01-03-2007, 01:04 PM
Trent Green deserves the nod at QB against Indy. If Green puts up a terrible game in the playoffs, then KC can re-think the starting QB for next season. But for all that Green has done for KC the last several years, he deserves a shot at righting the ship.

Great idea! Let's play a QB who's been under-performing just because he was good in prior seasons! Great logic!

This is the second time in 10 FREAKING SEASONS that the Chiefs have made the playoffs and you want to play a QB who isn't at his best and isn't even the best qualified player on the roster?

I hope that if you suck at your job, your boss has the same type of compassion. I wouldn't.

Dartgod
01-03-2007, 01:12 PM
Well i just want to see some emotion being expressed...Its called paying attention to detail. Of course I dont know what goes on in the huddle, or what goes on in the locker room?

Im a fan, and go by with what I see and Im forced to judge things based on what I see. I see some QBs give a teammate crap for messing up. I seen guys like Favre snap when O-lineman make mistakes. I've seen Ray Lewis huddle guys up and express his emotion on the sidelines? Those are little things, but they SAY a lot! That is part of what being a leader is all about. Your telling me not expressing emotion on the sideline is not about being a leader?! Cmon...Reggie White Frickn yelled his lungs off, every time his defense messed up...Thats leadership, hes trying to get his message across...Cmon guys..HELLO? stop messn up! I dont frickn like it. Im gonna do something about it, and he led by example, not only from his play, but trying to bring guys together, and also back it up with his own play.

*Oh yeah and guess what? All those guys have one thing in common, they've won a SB.I'll take the players' word (and Carl Peterson's ) over yours, if you don't mind.

In terms of leadership, the Chiefs haven’t had a leader on Green’s level since Marcus Allen retired.
“The guy is a warrior,” guard Brian Waters said. “People need to realize there are 25 other teams in the league who would kill to have Trent Green as their quarterback.”
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/football/nfl/kansas_city_chiefs/16359694.htm?source=rss&channel=kansascity_kansas_city_chiefs

"Trent has something you really can't teach," said tight end Jason Dunn. "A person's just got to have it, and he's one of those people who has it. Leadership. He's a natural born leader."
http://sportsline.com/nfl/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20061119_OAK@KC

"There's no question this will test the football team," Peterson said. "Trent Green has been a tremendous leader for us both on and off the field. We're anticipating that Trent will get through this and get well and be back with us.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/chiefs/2006-09-11-green-concussion_x.htm

DERRICK JOHNSON
On Trent Green as a teammate:
“He’s a leader of this team and to lose a guy like him, that’s big. That’s reality, but at the same time, we’ve got to go to work. We’ve got 15 games left. It’s a long ride.”
http://www.bengals.com/team/quotes060910.asp

Again, there are plenty of valid arguements (on both sides) in the Green/Huard debate, but to say that Green is not a leader is just plain dumb.

tk13
01-03-2007, 01:12 PM
Actually Trent gave Samie a pretty stern look after at least one pass on Sunday. I don't think he yelled at him, he just looked at him and the message was sent.

That was one play where it was really better to be at the game. When you watched the replay, it looked like Trent just threw a horrible pass... but watching it develop, you could see Samie was going to do an out pattern and was waaaay late breaking toward the sideline.

Kweens
01-03-2007, 01:43 PM
No Green = no PO win.

Huard might be an option but Green is the real deal in a stressful environment such as Indy.

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 01:56 PM
Great idea! Let's play a QB who's been under-performing just because he was good in prior seasons! Great logic!

This is the second time in 10 FREAKING SEASONS that the Chiefs have made the playoffs and you want to play a QB who isn't at his best and isn't even the best qualified player on the roster?

I hope that if you suck at your job, your boss has the same type of compassion. I wouldn't.

Trent Green isn't at his best, you're right.

But he's EASILY the most qualified player on the roster, and it's not even close.

Chiefnj
01-03-2007, 01:59 PM
But he's EASILY the most qualified player on the roster, and it's not even close.

How do you figure? Hicks once had a 14 sack season, should he start over Hali because he had better numbers in the past?

Dartgod
01-03-2007, 02:02 PM
How do you figure? Hicks once had a 14 sack season, should he start over Hali because he had better numbers in the past?
Wow. The lengths some of you are going to to validate your opinion.

ROFL

There are plenty of good points for both players without resorting to this kind of dumbassery.

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 02:05 PM
How do you figure? Hicks once had a 14 sack season, should he start over Hali because he had better numbers in the past?

When you interview someone for a job, do you hire the kid out of college with the 3.85 GPA or do you hire the guy who's been doing the job in the real world for 4-5 years?

I already said I'd go with Huard because he has the hot hand and the better numbers.

But just because of sheer number of starts, Green is infinitely more QUALIFIED.

DaneMcCloud
01-03-2007, 02:34 PM
When you interview someone for a job, do you hire the kid out of college with the 3.85 GPA or do you hire the guy who's been doing the job in the real world for 4-5 years?

That depends. Has the experienced guy hit his ceiling? How's his attitude? Is he looking to stay long? Or is it just a pit stop onto another job?

A kid with a 3.85 GPA, depending on the school of course, is pretty impressive. How long will he stay? What's his career ambitions? Do I want to train him, only to have him leave in six months for something better?

I think these are much more difficult questions to answer than whether or not Green is playing at his best or not. Is Huard at his best? Hard to say but right now, Huard's playing better than Green. That's pretty easy to see.

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 02:42 PM
That depends. Has the experienced guy hit his ceiling? How's his attitude? Is he looking to stay long? Or is it just a pit stop onto another job?

A kid with a 3.85 GPA, depending on the school of course, is pretty impressive. How long will he stay? What's his career ambitions? Do I want to train him, only to have him leave in six months for something better?

I think these are much more difficult questions to answer than whether or not Green is playing at his best or not. Is Huard at his best? Hard to say but right now, Huard's playing better than Green. That's pretty easy to see.

Those are all valid questions, and they absolutely apply in this situation.

IMO, NEITHER guy is the long term answer. Which is why we should just start Huard and be done with it. Win now, damn the future.

Chiefnj
01-03-2007, 02:47 PM
Wow. The lengths some of you are going to to validate your opinion.

ROFL

There are plenty of good points for both players without resorting to this kind of dumbassery.

Isn't that what the "Start Trent Green" side boils down to? He deserves the start for what he accomplished when DV was the coach.

Simply Red
01-03-2007, 02:51 PM
Is this thread some sort of joke?

Simply Red
01-03-2007, 02:53 PM
Wow. The lengths some of you are going to to validate your opinion.

ROFL

There are plenty of good points for both players without resorting to this kind of dumbassery.

tk13
01-03-2007, 03:03 PM
I honestly believe Trent can play well Saturday. It has nothing to do with the past 5 years. Well, obviously we have seen him play well. But... the best pass any QB threw Sunday was the pass Trent threw on that flea flicker. That was beautiful. He still has it. He definitely has to cut down on turnovers but I think he is going to go out and do a good job against the Colts cover 2.

Maybe Huard would get us there, I don't know. In some ways I think he's been incredibly lucky. If Kennison doesn't make the catch of his life the other day Huard would've been 1-3 at that point and we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. Meanwhile guys were dropping balls left and right for Trent... Parker dropped one on a crossing pattern he might have been able to take to the house.

Huard did not play that well on the road. I've made this argument 15 million times and nobody even responds to it. He did not play that well on the road. Denver, Miami, and Pittsburgh, he did not really play that well. He completed about 50% of his passes and we scored 2 TD's in those three games, and one of those was in garbage time down by 40 points. Arizona we were down big early and needed some help to come back. St. Louis, 11 of the first 12 plays were runs, and Huard only threw 15 passes the whole game. Against San Diego at home, our defense got three turnovers on a short field for the offense. And we still barely held on.

TRR
01-03-2007, 03:37 PM
Great idea! Let's play a QB who's been under-performing just because he was good in prior seasons! Great logic!

This is the second time in 10 FREAKING SEASONS that the Chiefs have made the playoffs and you want to play a QB who isn't at his best and isn't even the best qualified player on the roster?

I hope that if you suck at your job, your boss has the same type of compassion. I wouldn't.


At least Green was good in prior seasons. Huard is a 34 year old career backup. I'm so glad you can point to a handful of games this season where Huard was leashed tighter than a pitbull, and consider that quality play.

Green is the starter. Green gives KC the best chance of winning. I think the QB who has nearly 27,000 passing yards on our team is the most qualified.

KCJohnny
01-03-2007, 03:40 PM
My god loser, how many threads are you going to copy and paste your smoking weed theory in?

Come orginal or stay home..
Moron.

Right. Outside of name-calling, you have nothing intelligent to say. At least I am positing a football comment. :shake:

Bowser
01-03-2007, 03:43 PM
I honestly believe Trent can play well Saturday. It has nothing to do with the past 5 years. Well, obviously we have seen him play well. But... the best pass any QB threw Sunday was the pass Trent threw on that flea flicker. That was beautiful. He still has it. He definitely has to cut down on turnovers but I think he is going to go out and do a good job against the Colts cover 2.

Maybe Huard would get us there, I don't know. In some ways I think he's been incredibly lucky. If Kennison doesn't make the catch of his life the other day Huard would've been 1-3 at that point and we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. Meanwhile guys were dropping balls left and right for Trent... Parker dropped one on a crossing pattern he might have been able to take to the house.

Huard did not play that well on the road. I've made this argument 15 million times and nobody even responds to it. He did not play that well on the road. Denver, Miami, and Pittsburgh, he did not really play that well. He completed about 50% of his passes and we scored 2 TD's in those three games, and one of those was in garbage time down by 40 points. Arizona we were down big early and needed some help to come back. St. Louis, 11 of the first 12 plays were runs, and Huard only threw 15 passes the whole game. Against San Diego at home, our defense got three turnovers on a short field for the offense. And we still barely held on.


It saddens me to see such a respected veteran of these boards use common sense to prove his point. To think at one time I used to look up to you, tk13. :shake:







:D

DaneMcCloud
01-03-2007, 03:57 PM
At least Green was good in prior seasons. Huard is a 34 year old career backup. I'm so glad you can point to a handful of games this season where Huard was leashed tighter than a pitbull, and consider that quality play.

Green is the starter. Green gives KC the best chance of winning. I think the QB who has nearly 27,000 passing yards on our team is the most qualified.

Good for you. I'm sure that if Priest Holmes had been activated and LJ had a bad game, there'd be a ton of CP idiots clammoring for him to get playing time.

It's only your opinion that Green gives KC the best chance of winning, it's not fact. The Chiefs had a winning season under Huard and a .500 season under Green.

Oh, and Huard's 33.

Chiefnj
01-03-2007, 06:13 PM
Huard did not play that well on the road. I've made this argument 15 million times and nobody even responds to it. He did not play that well on the road. .

You are correct Huard didn't play well on the road. And Trent hasn't played well either. The difference is that Huard didn't throw costly INT's and Trent is doing it every game.

The Chiefs are a different creature than a year ago. They don't have the guns to shoot it out anymore. They don't need a QB to go head to head with Peyton.They need a QB to compliment the running game and not make mistakes. Huard has done it better than Green this year which is why he should get the start.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 06:25 PM
You are correct Huard didn't play well on the road. And Trent hasn't played well either. The difference is that Huard didn't throw costly INT's and Trent is doing it every game.


No, he had costly fumbles. I know everyone likes to point out Huard's single pick but, let's not pretend that he didn't turn the ball over at bad times.

DaneMcCloud
01-03-2007, 06:37 PM
No, he had costly fumbles. I know everyone likes to point out Huard's single pick but, let's not pretend that he didn't turn the ball over at bad times.

Well let's see. In the Denver game, Huard fumbled when a pass was batted back to him and he was tackled by Engleberger. Turnover.

In the Miami game, Huard committed ZERO fumbles. The Chiefs lost game without turning the ball over.

In the meantime, the Chiefs went 5-2 with him as a starter. Where are the "Costly" fumbles you speak of?

tk13
01-03-2007, 06:42 PM
I actually think both guys could start and I'd feel good about our chances this weekend. If Trent truly is banged up and limping around too badly, we should start Huard. And I agree, Huard makes less mistakes. I expected Trent to throw more than 1 INT, and he has looked a bit rattled at times.

That said, I do think we have to open it up a bit in the playoffs. Not to Al Saunders levels maybe, but spread things out a bit, throw some different looks out there... because I don't think we're as talented as some of these other teams. I know it sounds crazy the way this season has gone, but we are playing to try and get to the Super Bowl now. We scored 35 points on Sunday against a really good defense... we still have the ability to score points. Plus, there probably is some truth to the idea that I would rather go down in flames with Green than Huard. If Huard comes in and gives us another Miami game, that would be a rough way to go out. I know Trent knows he has to cut down on the mistakes, I just trust he's going to be prepared for this game. He knows what the deal is.

tk13
01-03-2007, 06:44 PM
Well let's see. In the Denver game, Huard fumbled when a pass was batted back to him and he was tackled by Engleberger. Turnover.

In the Miami game, Huard committed ZERO fumbles. The Chiefs lost game without turning the ball over.

In the meantime, the Chiefs went 5-2 with him as a starter. Where are the "Costly" fumbles you speak of?
Huard fumbled 9 times, in about 8 and a half games.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 06:49 PM
Well let's see. In the Denver game, Huard fumbled when a pass was batted back to him and he was tackled by Engleberger. Turnover.

In the Miami game, Huard committed ZERO fumbles. The Chiefs lost game without turning the ball over.

In the meantime, the Chiefs went 5-2 with him as a starter. Where are the "Costly" fumbles you speak of?



I'm thinking he actually had two against Denver, but that has been some time ago so I'm a tad fuzzy on that. NFL.com has him losing 5 of 9 fumbles. I wouldn't exactly call him real safe with the ball if he dropped it 9 times in 7-8 games.

DaneMcCloud
01-03-2007, 06:54 PM
Huard fumbled 9 times, in about 8 and a half games.

Yes, he did. Part of that can be attributed to the fact that he hadn't played in five years. Five of those were recovered, so there was a total of 5 turnovers committed by Huard in those 8.5 games.

Still not too shabby, especially compared to Green's turnovers 9 Int's, 8 fumbles, 5 recovered for a total of 14 turnovers.

Bowser
01-03-2007, 06:56 PM
Dane, enough with the nitpicky bad vibes already. Don't be showering down the bad karma, mmmkay?

DaneMcCloud
01-03-2007, 06:57 PM
Dane, enough with the nitpicky bad vibes already. Don't be showering down the bad karma, mmmkay?

Hey man, I'm just disputing someone's "fuzzy" memory. I guess there's nothing like FACTS to stir a debate, huh?

Bowser
01-03-2007, 07:01 PM
Hey man, I'm just disputing someone's "fuzzy" memory. I guess there's nothing like FACTS to stir a debate, huh?

Dammit! The whole debate is bad karma!

Redcoats58
01-03-2007, 07:03 PM
I'm thinking he actually had two against Denver, but that has been some time ago so I'm a tad fuzzy on that. NFL.com has him losing 5 of 9 fumbles. I wouldn't exactly call him real safe with the ball if he dropped it 9 times in 7-8 games.
Green hasn't exactly been protecting the ball himself. He has 5 fumbles with 3 lost and to top that off 9 Int's to 7 TD's. Both QB's have been having some real fumbling problems. I would rather go with the QB with less INT's.

As I said before I'm still a Green-backer but there is something up with him post injury, so I would have to go with the more sound QB that is Huard before he was pulled. Will Huard be the same if he gets the nod to play? That remains to be seen. I do know that Green as of late hasn't shown me any consistency and I also know Green is gonna start so this whole thread is pointless. I'm just happy my team is in the playoffs with Green/Huard starting, who cares! Just win, that's the bottom line.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 07:11 PM
Yes, he did. Part of that can be attributed to the fact that he hadn't played in five years. Five of those were recovered, so there was a total of 5 turnovers committed by Huard in those 8.5 games.

Still not too shabby, especially compared to Green's turnovers 9 Int's, 8 fumbles, 5 recovered for a total of 14 turnovers.



Four. Four of those fumbles were recovered, not five. Leaving Huard with a total of six turnovers.

So, Huard gets a free pass because he hasn't played in five years but Green gets f#cked over by you because he missed playing and practice time due to a severe injury? No logic, no logic what so ever. You guys are so determined to prove that your opinion is teh right one that you simply throw logic and fairness out the window just you can be right.

Or maybe it's not about being right, maybe it's just a man crush, I don't know.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 07:14 PM
Hey man, I'm just disputing someone's "fuzzy" memory. I guess there's nothing like FACTS to stir a debate, huh?


Yeah, you disputed and you lost. You could think of only one fumble, I provided the facts that there were a lot more incidents than one.


But I'm the one with the "fuzzy memory" just because I don't recall the exact scenarios. At least I didn't block those incidents from my memory in order to push my agenda.

DaneMcCloud
01-03-2007, 07:17 PM
Four. Four of those fumbles were recovered, not five. Leaving Huard with a total of six turnovers.

So, Huard gets a free pass because he hasn't played in five years but Green gets f#cked over by you because he missed playing and practice time due to a severe injury? No logic, no logic what so ever. You guys are so determined to prove that your opinion is teh right one that you simply throw logic and fairness out the window just you can be right.

Or maybe it's not about being right, maybe it's just a man crush, I don't know.

Yes, Huard gets a pass for the Cincinnati and Denver fumbles. Second string for 5 years, no time with the first string, etc. Remember, he led the Chiefs to a 5-3 record.

But I'm assuming (since you're turning this into something personal with your idiotic 'man love' comments) that you watch the games drunk and with the comprehension of a 2nd grade student. It's clear to just about anyone who watches the Chiefs that this team responds much better when Huard's under center.

If there's any "man-love" going on here, it's for TrInt.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 07:22 PM
Green hasn't exactly been protecting the ball himself. He has 5 fumbles with 3 lost and to top that off 9 Int's to 7 TD's. Both QB's have been having some real fumbling problems. I would rather go with the QB with less INT's.

I do not recall saying that he had been. My whole thing is to debunk this flawless picture of Huard some of you are trying paint. He has not been a perfect little angel, and infact has looked down right shitty at times. Don't get me wrong, I was willing to have the man's babies earier this year when he doing his part to help keep us alive when I thought the season was over. But he is not a starting QB. He couldn't win the job in Miami and hasn't been able to land a starting job any where else. Trent Green has managed to rise through the ranks to become the leader of league leading offenses. He knows how to shake off the tough times and put it all together, he knows how to win, and will do so again Saturday. Or maybe he won't. But regardless, he has earned the right to be given the opportunity to do so.

As I said before I'm still a Green-backer but there is something up with him post injury, so I would have to go with the more sound QB that is Huard before he was pulled. Will Huard be the same if he gets the nod to play? That remains to be seen. I do know that Green as of late hasn't shown me any consistency and I also know Green is gonna start so this whole thread is pointless. I'm just happy my team is in the playoffs with Green/Huard starting, who cares! Just win, that's the bottom line.


On this, we are in complete agreement.

DaneMcCloud
01-03-2007, 07:24 PM
Yeah, you disputed and you lost. You could think of only one fumble, I provided the facts that there were a lot more incidents than one.

Alright dude, if you want to be specific, there was ONE fumble in the Denver game, which was lost. It was a blocked pass that happened to bounce into Huard's arms, and John Engleberger caused a fumble and recovered it. If you want to call that "costly" okay. The Broncos scored a field goal after that, their first of the day.


But I'm the one with the "fuzzy memory" just because I don't recall the exact scenarios. At least I didn't block those incidents from my memory in order to push my agenda.

Again, show me where a Huard fumble was "Costly". Costly means that it jeopardized the outcome of the game. Why don't you use the internet to research before spewing out crap instead of just using it to flap your trap and "further your agenda".

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 07:25 PM
Yes, Huard gets a pass for the Cincinnati and Denver fumbles. Second string for 5 years, no time with the first string, etc. Remember, he led the Chiefs to a 5-3 record.

But I'm assuming (since you're turning this into something personal with your idiotic 'man love' comments) that you watch the games drunk and with the comprehension of a 2nd grade student. It's clear to just about anyone who watches the Chiefs that this team responds much better when Huard's under center.

If there's any "man-love" going on here, it's for TrInt.



I have no problem giving Huard a partial pass. But if you are going to do that you have to give Green a pass as well. Fair is fair.

The fact that you are unwilling to set the same standards for Huard that you do for Green leaves you looking like the one with the man crush. I'm not the one who is playing blind to my guy's faults.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 07:30 PM
Alright dude, if you want to be specific, there was ONE fumble in the Denver game, which was lost. It was a blocked pass that happened to bounce into Huard's arms, and John Engleberger caused a fumble and recovered it. If you want to call that "costly" okay. The Broncos scored a field goal after that, their first of the day.

Still focusing on only one game I see....


Again, show me where a Huard fumble was "Costly". Costly means that it jeopardized the outcome of the game. Why don't you use the internet to research before spewing out crap instead of just using it to flap your trap and "further your agenda".

Any turnover is costly in one aspect or another. Even if the other team gets nothing out of it, you sure didn't score any points yourself. And when you are dropping the ball on a consistent basis, you sure become a liability in a hurry. At least that is what you all are telling me about Green, but then we come back to that whole double standard thing....

Count Zarth
01-03-2007, 07:31 PM
Again, show me where a Huard fumble was "Costly".

How about the Seattle and San Diego games?

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 07:34 PM
Alright dude, if you want to be specific, there was ONE fumble in the Denver game, which was lost. It was a blocked pass that happened to bounce into Huard's arms, and John Engleberger caused a fumble and recovered it. If you want to call that "costly" okay. The Broncos scored a field goal after that, their first of the day.


Also, yes I would call that very costly seeing as how the donks beat us by what? A field goal.

And I watch football with the comprehension of a two year old.... :rolleyes:

Redcoats58
01-03-2007, 07:35 PM
I do not recall saying that he had been. My whole thing is to debunk this flawless picture of Huard some of you are trying paint. He has not been a perfect little angel, and infact has looked down right shitty at times. Don't get me wrong, I was willing to have the man's babies earier this year when he doing his part to help keep us alive when I thought the season was over. But he is not a starting QB. He couldn't win the job in Miami and hasn't been able to land a starting job any where else. Trent Green has managed to rise through the ranks to become the leader of league leading offenses. He knows how to shake off the tough times and put it all together, he knows how to win, and will do so again Saturday. Or maybe he won't. But regardless, he has earned the right to be given the opportunity to do so.




On this, we are in complete agreement.

Oh you don't have to convince me of the accomplishments of Green, I'm well aware. I also have just as much faith at this moment in time in Green as I do Huard. They both have their downsides. Thats what makes this a unique situation and I'm glad I'm not the head coach because I feel that whichever QB he goes with, if we don't win these games, it's pretty much a lose-lose situation.


If I were head coach my choice would be Huard because I originally stated that Green should get the start over Huard and If he plays poorly then you have to go with the more sound QB, which is Huard.


Now when they start Green I hope he plays lights out the way he played last time we played the Colts in the playoffs. I know this is a different situation because we're probably gonna run the hell out of the ball. Running the ball effectively should only help Green succeed in the passing game and maybe it's the stepping stone he needs to get back into his groove.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 07:36 PM
How about the Seattle and San Diego games?


But we won those games, so there is no way in hell they can be considered costly.

Unless you name is Trent Green and turn the ball over in a close win.....


Didn't Huard have a fumble against 'zona as well?

Dartgod
01-03-2007, 07:42 PM
Didn't Huard have a fumble against 'zona as well?
Yes, it led to a touchdown that put the Cards up 14-0.

DaneMcCloud
01-03-2007, 07:42 PM
I have no problem giving Huard a partial pass. But if you are going to do that you have to give Green a pass as well. Fair is fair.

The fact that you are unwilling to set the same standards for Huard that you do for Green leaves you looking like the one with the man crush. I'm not the one who is playing blind to my guy's faults.

Okay, how about this: In Huard's first four appearances of the season, he was 2-2. Losses to Cinci & Denver, wins against SF & Arizona. His next five appearances, the Chiefs went 3-2, with both losses coming on the road. The Chiefs scored a total of offensive 197 points in Huard's 10 appearances (including Jax).

Under Trent Green, the team scored a total of 127 offensive points (not including the seven points that Huard scored in the Cinci game and the 7 in the Jax game).

What do you think about that? Isn't the team clearly performing better with Huard under center?

DaneMcCloud
01-03-2007, 07:44 PM
Also, yes I would call that very costly seeing as how the donks beat us by what? A field goal.

And I watch football with the comprehension of a two year old.... :rolleyes:

You declared that Huard committed several costly fumbles. I pointed out one. Where are the others?

Again, "costly" means it jeopardized the outcome of the game.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 07:44 PM
Yes, it led to a touchdown that put the Cards up 14-0.



Yeah, that wasn't costly.

Count Zarth
01-03-2007, 07:46 PM
Huard's fumble against San Diego allowed them to tie the game in the fourth quarter.

DaneMcCloud
01-03-2007, 07:46 PM
Yeah, that wasn't costly.

Hey, I asked YOU to point them out, not someone else. You're the one declaring the "costly" fumbles, not anyone else.

The Chiefs won the Arizona game so the fumble obviously did not cost the Chiefs the win.

Redcoats58
01-03-2007, 07:48 PM
Hey, I asked YOU to point them out, not someone else. You're the one declaring the "costly" fumbles, not anyone else.

The Chiefs won the Arizona game so the fumble obviously did not cost the Chiefs the win.
Well one could easily argue that we won inspite of Huards fumbles.

Dartgod
01-03-2007, 07:49 PM
Hey, I asked YOU to point them out, not someone else. You're the one declaring the "costly" fumbles, not anyone else.

The Chiefs won the Arizona game so the fumble obviously did not cost the Chiefs the win.WTF? :spock:

They don't count if someone else points them out? ROFL

Based on your logic, Green's 2 INTs and his fumble against the Jags don't count since we won.

Or his INT against Oakland...

Or his INT vs. Denver.

KCJohnny
01-03-2007, 07:52 PM
I myself don't like going down this road. But remember Fujitas hit on Trent at Dallas last year? Dere goes our season! I blame the pass protect scheme on 90% of these 'costly fumbles'. Priest Holmes gains 176 yards against Indy and fumbles in the RZ in the Divisional playoff game - do we blame him for that loss? Its a team game.

DaneMcCloud
01-03-2007, 07:53 PM
WTF? :spock:

They don't count if someone else points them out? ROFL

This is getting stupid. Raider/Indy Hader made the claim. If you're gonna make the claim, back it up. Don't let other people back it up, YOU back it up. He also questioned my "man love" for Huard. So if he's gonna throw the sh*t out there, he should be the one to back it up.

Comprende?

KCJohnny
01-03-2007, 07:54 PM
Please guys, calm down, take a deep breath, step back, we are all Chiefs fans here. Heaven knows we don't need another girly-man dogpile to happen here.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 07:55 PM
Okay, how about this: In Huard's first four appearances of the season, he was 2-2. Losses to Cinci & Denver, wins against SF & Arizona. His next five appearances, the Chiefs went 3-2, with both losses coming on the road. The Chiefs scored a total of offensive 197 points 10 appearances (including Jax).

Under Trent Green, the team scored a total of 127 offensive points (not including the seven points that Huard scored in the Cinci game and the 7 in the Jax game).

What do you think about that? Isn't the team clearly performing better with Huard under center?


Not necessarily. As has been said more than once, the stats do not tell the whole story. But if you want to try and tell teh whole story, let's look at the standings and stats of the defenses that each QB faced.

The toughest Ds DH faced were Denver (L), Pitt (L), Miami (L) and we'll throw SD in there to be fair even though they were missing some guys and not playing at their peak as a result (W).

Green has faced a much healthier and improved SD (L), the best D in the league in Baltimore (L), Oakland twice (W, W), Denver (W) and JAX (W).

The not so great Ds Huard went up against 'zona (W), Frisco (W), Seattle, (W) and St. Louis (W).

Green went up against Cleveland (L) and Cinci (L).

Dartgod
01-03-2007, 07:56 PM
This is getting stupid. Raider/Indy Hader made the claim. If you're gonna make the claim, back it up. Don't let other people back it up, YOU back it up. He also questioned my "man love" for Huard. So if he's gonna throw the sh*t out there, he should be the one to back it up.

Comprende?
Geeeez, Louise...

He did make the claim. I just verified it. But you just go ahead and bury your head in the sand and say it doesn't count because it doesn't follow YOUR rules.

ROFL

DaneMcCloud
01-03-2007, 07:58 PM
I myself don't like going down this road. But remember Fujitas hit on Trent at Dallas last year? Dere goes our season! I blame the pass protect scheme on 90% of these 'costly fumbles'. Priest Holmes gains 176 yards against Indy and fumbles in the RZ in the Divisional playoff game - do we blame him for that loss? Its a team game.

I'm with you, Johnny. But even though I feel Huard should be starting, his fumbles seemed to be (IIRC), center/QB exchange and QB/RB exchange for the most part (Denver excluded). To me, that's just lack of ball handling time but those definitely fall on his shoulders.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 08:01 PM
Hey, I asked YOU to point them out, not someone else. You're the one declaring the "costly" fumbles, not anyone else.

The Chiefs won the Arizona game so the fumble obviously did not cost the Chiefs the win.



First of all, you are a f#cking jerk off.


Secondly, if turnovers in a win do not count, than throw out Green's in his wins against Denver, Oakland, and Jax.

KCJohnny
01-03-2007, 08:01 PM
I'm with you, Johnny. But even though I feel Huard should be starting, his fumbles seemed to be (IIRC), center/QB exchange and QB/RB exchange for the most part (Denver excluded). To me, that's just lack of ball handling time but those definitely fall on his shoulders.

Fair enough.
:toast:

Count Zarth
01-03-2007, 08:01 PM
Not necessarily. As has been said more than once, the stats do not tell the whole story. But if you want to try and tell teh whole story, let's look at the standings and stats of the defenses that each QB faced.

The toughest Ds DH faced were Denver (L), Pitt (L), Miami (L) and we'll throw SD in there to be fair even though they were missing some guys and not playing at their peak as a result (W).

Green has faced a much healthier and improved SD (L), the best D in the league in Baltimore (L), Oakland twice (W, W), Denver (W) and JAX (W).

The not so great Ds Huard went up against 'zona (W), Frisco (W), Seattle, (W) and St. Louis (W).

Green went up against Cleveland (L) and Cinci (L).

Whatever man. Huard would have raped Baltimore!

Dartgod
01-03-2007, 08:01 PM
I'm with you, Johnny. But even though I feel Huard should be starting, his fumbles seemed to be (IIRC), center/QB exchange and QB/RB exchange for the most part (Denver excluded). To me, that's just lack of ball handling time but those definitely fall on his shoulders.
You forgot to add that they don't count if we won the game.

DaneMcCloud
01-03-2007, 08:03 PM
Not necessarily. As has been said more than once, the stats do not tell the whole story. But if you want to try and tell teh whole story, let's look at the standings and stats of the defenses that each QB faced.

The toughest Ds DH faced were Denver (L), Pitt (L), Miami (L) and we'll throw SD in there to be fair even though they were missing some guys and not playing at their peak as a result (W).

Green has faced a much healthier and improved SD (L), the best D in the league in Baltimore (L), Oakland twice (W, W), Denver (W) and JAX (W).

The not so great Ds Huard went up against 'zona (W), Frisco (W), Seattle, (W) and St. Louis (W).

Green went up against Cleveland (L) and Cinci (L).

Wow, I guess there's just about a million ways to look at this situation and there's no simple way of determining which QB is better suited to start (and hopefully, finish) on Sunday.

I guess after all of this, I'm glad I'm not in Herm's position. If the Chiefs lose, there will be a ton of fingerpointing.

hawkchief
01-03-2007, 08:04 PM
This is getting stupid. Raider/Indy Hader made the claim. If you're gonna make the claim, back it up. Don't let other people back it up, YOU back it up. He also questioned my "man love" for Huard. So if he's gonna throw the sh*t out there, he should be the one to back it up.

Comprende?

Posters like indyhader only know how to back up their statements by dropping f-bombs and the like and diverting the focus away from their dumbassery.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 08:05 PM
I'm with you, Johnny. But even though I feel Huard should be starting, his fumbles seemed to be (IIRC), center/QB exchange and QB/RB exchange for the most part (Denver excluded). To me, that's just lack of ball handling time but those definitely fall on his shoulders.


You cannot even remember that the fumbles took place, how the hell do you expect us to believe you remember how they were caused.

There were some strips in the mix on account of Huard *GASP* holding on to the ball too long.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 08:07 PM
Whatever man. Huard would have raped Baltimore!


Silly me. What ever could I be thinking.

DaneMcCloud
01-03-2007, 08:08 PM
First of all, you are a f#cking jerk off.

Hey, thanks a lot!


Secondly, if turnovers in a win do not count, than throw out Green's in his wins against Denver, Oakland, and Jax.

Yeah. They weren't costly. The Chiefs won. I'm good with that. That doesn't necessarly mean Green's playing better than Huard, but you can't pin a loss on him.

DaneMcCloud
01-03-2007, 08:09 PM
You cannot even remember that the fumbles took place, how the hell do you expect us to believe you remember how they were caused.

There were some strips in the mix on account of Huard *GASP* holding on to the ball too long.

Okay, so "for the most part" doesn't cover any of what I said? Should I go back, game by game for a perfect description? If so, why aren't you held to that standard?

Remember, you stated that Huard committed "Several costly fumbles", not me.

Dartgod
01-03-2007, 08:09 PM
Wow, I guess there's just about a million ways to look at this situation and there's no simple way of determining which QB is better suited to start (and hopefully, finish) on Sunday.

I guess after all of this, I'm glad I'm not in Herm's position. If the Chiefs lose, there will be a ton of fingerpointing.This is the most sensible thing you've said.

I'm in the "start Green" camp because I just feel more confident with him in there. That's just me.

However, I would have no problem if Herm decided to start Huard instead. It's a great situation for our team to be in.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 08:10 PM
Posters like indyhader only know how to back up their statements by dropping f-bombs and the like and diverting the focus away from their dumbassery.



LMAO I've introduced more facts and logic in this thread than you and LameMcCloud combined.


Silly tool.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 08:13 PM
Hey, thanks a lot!




Yeah. They weren't costly. The Chiefs won. I'm good with that. That doesn't necessarly mean Green's playing better than Huard, but you can't pin a loss on him.


It sure hasn't been coming across that way.

DaneMcCloud
01-03-2007, 08:16 PM
It sure hasn't been coming across that way.

Really? I don't think I've torn apart Green's play at all. I certainly haven't detailed each interception or fumble (costly or not), just total turnovers. With Huard, I've actually torn apart his performance to a much higher degree and even with that, I think he's playing better football.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 08:17 PM
Okay, so "for the most part" doesn't cover any of what I said? Should I go back, game by game for a perfect description? If so, why aren't you held to that standard?

Remember, you stated that Huard committed "Several costly fumbles", not me.


And he did. The fact that you act like that is still in question shows either your inability or desire to not recall factual events.

Bowser
01-03-2007, 08:17 PM
Judo CHOP!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pissing_contest

Chiefnj
01-03-2007, 08:20 PM
And he did. The fact that you act like that is still in question shows either your inability or desire to not recall factual events.

Huard did have many costly fumbles. Green has fumbled as well and has turned the ball over more.

In 8 games Green has been sacked 24 times, thrown 9 Interceptions, fumbled 5 times losing 3 of them. A total of 12 turnovers.

In 10 games Huard has been sacked 16 times, thrown 1 interception, fumbled 9 times losing 5 of them. A total of 6 turnovers.

Green has twice as many turnovers and has taken a lot more sacks.

hawkchief
01-03-2007, 08:22 PM
LMAO I've introduced more facts and logic in this thread than you and LameMcCloud combined.


Silly tool.

It's hard to find all your "factual and logical" gems, when your posts are littered with 3rd grade-level name calling and whining.

If you can't have an internet discussion about sports without being a jerk when people disagree with you, it's hard to can't imagine how awful your personal relationships must be. Check into an anger management course sometime - it would probably do you a lot of good.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 08:23 PM
Really? I don't think I've torn apart Green's play at all. I certainly haven't detailed each interception or fumble (costly or not), just total turnovers. With Huard, I've actually torn apart his performance to a much higher degree and even with that, I think he's playing better football.


Bullshit. You've jumped on every opportunity to talk about Green's turnovers (specific detail or not) and yet who was the one who made Huard's fumblitis an issue in this discussion? It sure as hell wasn't you, bubba. That was me. And who has taken a look at the defenesive squads the respective QBs have faced? Once again, not a peep out of you, where as tk13 and I have brought it up more than once.

Your desire to be right, your man crush or whatever the hell it is that is driving you on this issue is blinding you badly.

DaneMcCloud
01-03-2007, 08:25 PM
LMAO I've introduced more facts and logic in this thread than you and LameMcCloud combined.
Silly tool.

Like this fact based gem?
Oh yeah, sure, a game where running the ball is going to be the factor and a bunch of tools with Huard's man goo on their faces automatically chalk the game up to a loss because of who will be handing the ball off to LJ. What a bunch of tards.

Has Huard EVER played in a playoff game?

Or this one?

No, Green has never won a playoff game, but neither has Huard. How think that makes him the savior is just plain stupid.

I posted in another thread what starting the guy with lesser experience did for the donks, stop and think about that for moment while you are licking that goo off your lips.

This is QUITE fact based

BLIND EYE TO BETTER TALENT!? BLIND EYE TO BETTER TALENT!? Are you f#cking retarded? If Huard is really the second coming of Christ that you all have him pegged as, WHY HASN'T HE BEEN SIGNED AS A STARTER SOME WHERE? The man is a back up for a reason. Get it through your f#cking skulls. BACK UP. Good God, talk about blind eyes....

No, Green has not looked good, save for the Cleveland game. I do not deny that. However, when it comes down to the big game, give me the guy whith more experience, more heart and more leadership ability. I'll take the man who was running one of the besst offenses in the league over the course of 4 years over the guy who warming the f#cking bench during that time. I'll support the leader of my team even while going through the rough stages, because I know he can shake it off. He shook off 2001 and the TrINT moniker, he'll shake off this season too.

Unf#ckingbelievable. Trent had ought to tell this city to f#ck off. Thankfully he won't. Thankfully he will be under center this week. And thankfully we will win, not in spite of him, but with him.

This is deadly accurate:

And if Huard doesn't get the deer in the headlights syndrome and try to throw three f#cking picks in Miami, we win.

I can play the if game too, Johnny.

or this one:

Adult conversations went out the window with Huard obsessors long ago. You guys live in another universe, trying to apply logic to a discussion on the subject with you is a waste of time, I gave up on some time back.

Just the fact, ma'am. Need I continue with your "facts"?

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 08:27 PM
Huard did have many costly fumbles. Green has fumbled as well and has turned the ball over more.

In 8 games Green has been sacked 24 times, thrown 9 Interceptions, fumbled 5 times losing 3 of them. A total of 12 turnovers.

In 10 games Huard has been sacked 16 times, thrown 1 interception, fumbled 9 times losing 5 of them. A total of 6 turnovers.

Green has twice as many turnovers and has taken a lot more sacks.



Yes, yes, yes, I know all about Green's stats. You guys won't let anyone forget. But at the same time many have forgotten about Huard's actual play and that is what my mission here is, to bring a sense of realism to the man, the myth, the legend that is Damon Huard. Because when looked at objectively, he is a lot closer to man than the superman that some of you have him pegged as.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 08:35 PM
It's hard to find all your "factual and logical" gems, when your posts are littered with 3rd grade-level name calling and whining.

If you can't have an internet discussion about sports without being a jerk when people disagree with you, it's hard to can't imagine how awful your personal relationships must be. Check into an anger management course sometime - it would probably do you a lot of good.



Uh-huh. Try telling the many people on the board who actually met me that is your view of me and see what reaction you get. Go ahead, really, start a thread about. The fact is you have no argument for the facts that I have argued so you must try and change the subject to "that RH is such meanie, he uses fould and abusive language on a football board! Can you believe that? On a board full of testostrone and he isn't using good bed side manners like a lady as myself [supposedly] does."

You don't like that I am tearing down the god-like image you have of Huard in your mind so you have to focus on my style of my words instead of the substance of them. Get real.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 08:39 PM
Like this fact based gem?


Or this one?



This is QUITE fact based



This is deadly accurate:



or this one:



Just the fact, ma'am. Need I continue with your "facts"?


I can cherry pick posts to paint whatever kind of picture I want too. It's not a talent special to only you.

Chiefnj
01-03-2007, 08:42 PM
Yes, yes, yes, I know all about Green's stats. You guys won't let anyone forget. But at the same time many have forgotten about Huard's actual play and that is what my mission here is, to bring a sense of realism to the man, the myth, the legend that is Damon Huard. Because when looked at objectively, he is a lot closer to man than the superman that some of you have him pegged as.

This is where you are 100% wrong. I, and others, don't think Huard is a great QB. I realize he played poorly on the road against good defenses. The difference is the turnovers which for some reason you won't, or can't, comprehend as being important.

hawkchief
01-03-2007, 08:46 PM
Uh-huh. Try telling the many people on the board who actually met me that is your view of me and see what reaction you get. Go ahead, really, start a thread about. The fact is you have no argument for the facts that I have argued so you must try and change the subject to "that RH is such meanie, he uses fould and abusive language on a football board! Can you believe that? On a board full of testostrone and he isn't using good bed side manners like a lady as myself [supposedly] does."

You don't like that I am tearing down the god-like image you have of Huard in your mind so you have to focus on my style of my words instead of the substance of them. Get real.

I was going to recommend you not kick the dog before you go to bed, but I suspect you've already kiiled it by now.

I'm sure you probably don't act like a jerk in person where people can call you out on it, but take a few minutes and review all of your posts on this topic and then try and find other posters on the board that post in a similar fashion. I highly doubt you will, but best of luck trying.

Dartgod
01-03-2007, 08:47 PM
I was going to recommend you not kick the dog before you go to bed, but I suspect you've already kiiled it by now.

I'm sure you probably don't act like a jerk in person where people can call you out on it, but take a few minutes and review all of your posts on this topic and then try and find other posters on the board that post in a similar fashion. I highly doubt you will, but best of luck trying.Give it up, dude. You are 100% wrong on this one.

Redcoats58
01-03-2007, 08:51 PM
I was going to recommend you not kick the dog before you go to bed, but I suspect you've already kiiled it by now.

I'm sure you probably don't act like a jerk in person where people can call you out on it, but take a few minutes and review all of your posts on this topic and then try and find other posters on the board that post in a similar fashion. I highly doubt you will, but best of luck trying.
Well I disagree. You could find plenty that have the same posting style. A prime example is Hootie. If you have a different opinion then Hootie you're a complete imbecile and you should kill yourself immediately.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 08:52 PM
This is where you are 100% wrong. I, and others, don't think Huard is a great QB. I realize he played poorly on the road against good defenses. The difference is the turnovers which for some reason you won't, or can't, comprehend as being important.



This is just unreal. It is those in the Huard camp who "forget" about the man's fumbles, but I am the one who is incapable of comprehending that turnovers are important?

I'M THE SUMBITCH THAT MADE THE FUMBLES AN ISSUE! Good God almighty. You people live in... I don't know where you live, but it sure as f#ck isn't reality.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 09:00 PM
I was going to recommend you not kick the dog before you go to bed, but I suspect you've already kiiled it by now.

I'm sure you probably don't act like a jerk in person where people can call you out on it, but take a few minutes and review all of your posts on this topic and then try and find other posters on the board that post in a similar fashion. I highly doubt you will, but best of luck trying.



Why don't you take a look around, do a little research on my posting habits. I think you'll find I only act like this when people are being stupid. It's my main weakness, I can't help it, stupidity brings out the worst in me. Feel free to show up to any Planet gathering and introduce yourself to me, I'll no have qualms with telling you that you are a f#cking moron to your face, no matter how big a boy you are.

Oh, but job well done, we are now talking about me instead of Huard's short comings. Mission accomplished. Though it is a shame that you had to be a hypocrite to do it, you know, do what you are accusing me of doing, attacking the poster instead of the posts.

Chiefnj
01-03-2007, 09:04 PM
This is just unreal. It is those in the Huard camp who "forget" about the man's fumbles, but I am the one who is incapable of comprehending that turnovers are important?

I'M THE SUMBITCH THAT MADE THE FUMBLES AN ISSUE! Good God almighty. You people live in... I don't know where you live, but it sure as f#ck isn't reality.

Green has 12 total turnovers (Ints and fumbles). Huard has half as many.

Nobody is forgetting the fumbles. Green is much worse at turning the ball over this year.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 09:14 PM
Green has 12 total turnovers (Ints and fumbles). Huard has half as many.

Nobody is forgetting the fumbles. Green is much worse at turning the ball over this year.


Really? I never see them mentioned by the Huard crowd. They just like to focus on his one pick. And then when I FORCE the fumbles into the discusion, McCloud thinks there is only one, and acts like I and others are blowing smoke up his ass when we point out others, or they mean nothing because we won those games, even if just barely, still means dick.

Also no one in the Huard crowd likes to look at and compare the defenses that both QBs played against. Yeah, I know, better defenses doesn't mean jack shit in the world of turnovers. :rolleyes:

BigRock
01-03-2007, 09:36 PM
He can't catch it if it isn't thrown right. Some catches ARE spectacular - and that was definitely one of them, but you are wrong to assert that it was spectacular because it was poorly thrown - it was not.
The ball was way over Eddie's head. He had to reach his arm straight up in the air just to be able to get his fingers on it to tip it, and then he managed to catch it on the deflection.

It shouldn't be a knock on Huard, as he hadn't thrown a live pass in a few months. If he could come in cold off the bench and perfectly drop a 40 yard pass right in over Eddie's shoulder, there probably wouldn't be as big a debate about the QB issue. But that play, and the whole "Huard came in and led us on a TD drive" thing, was 99% Eddie making an incredible catch on an overthrown ball.

BigRock
01-03-2007, 09:38 PM
You can certainly argue that Huard has performed better this year than Green, but you are the second person that has questioned Green's leadership with this team, which is beyond idiotic.
Sadly, there was actually a whole thread about this a few days ago. :shake:

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 09:40 PM
The ball was way over Eddie's head. He had to reach his arm straight up in the air just to be able to get his fingers on it to tip it, and then he managed to catch it on the deflection.

It shouldn't be a knock on Huard, as he hadn't thrown a live pass in a few months. If he could come in cold off the bench and perfectly drop a 40 yard pass right in over Eddie's shoulder, there probably wouldn't be as big a debate about the QB issue. But that play, and the whole "Huard came in and led us on a TD drive" thing, was 99% Eddie making an incredible catch on an overthrown ball.



How dare you question Huard's perfection! We all know he is a demi-god!

Redcoats58
01-03-2007, 09:42 PM
How dare you question Huard's perfection! We all know he is a demi-god!

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KCJohnny
01-03-2007, 09:42 PM
The ball was way over Eddie's head. He had to reach his arm straight up in the air just to be able to get his fingers on it to tip it, and then he managed to catch it on the deflection.

It shouldn't be a knock on Huard, as he hadn't thrown a live pass in a few months. If he could come in cold off the bench and perfectly drop a 40 yard pass right in over Eddie's shoulder, there probably wouldn't be as big a debate about the QB issue. But that play, and the whole "Huard came in and led us on a TD drive" thing, was 99% Eddie making an incredible catch on an overthrown ball.

No. I was there at Arrowhead. Huard got crushed on his release. If you are an NFL WR making $1 mil a year, you gotta make that catch. Eddie, for whatever reason, reached up with one hand, not 2, and made a spectacular catch. I was there in person, it was not an impossible grab.

I give Huard kudos for even taking the shot down the field.

DaneMcCloud
01-03-2007, 09:49 PM
Why don't you take a look around, do a little research on my posting habits. I think you'll find I only act like this when people are being stupid. It's my main weakness, I can't help it, stupidity brings out the worst in me. Feel free to show up to any Planet gathering and introduce yourself to me, I'll no have qualms with telling you that you are a f#cking moron to your face, no matter how big a boy you are.

Thanks for pointing out where everyone is "stupid". I'm sure that in your 25 years on this planet, your superior knowledge and success has led you to a point where you feel comfortable judging everyone else. Good for you.

I for one, am done with this topic. I've stated time and again, based on stats and using my eyes, that Trent is not playing as well as Damon, period. If you don't want to see that, fine. But no one is "stupid" for seeing something that's so obvious to many. Otherwise, this wouldn't be a hot topic.

You know what's really "stupid" though? The FACT that you've insulted me with homophobic comments; saying that "I need to wipe the goo from my chin" or that I have "man love" for Damon Huard. Just a word of advice - that kind of nonsense in a conversation makes you not only look small, but stupid. And it's certainly no way to win a debate.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 10:04 PM
Thanks for pointing out where everyone is "stupid". I'm sure that in your 25 years on this planet, your superior knowledge and success has led you to a point where you feel comfortable judging everyone else. Good for you.

I for one, am done with this topic. I've stated time and again, based on stats and using my eyes, that Trent is not playing as well as Damon, period. If you don't want to see that, fine. But no one is "stupid" for seeing something that's so obvious to many. Otherwise, this wouldn't be a hot topic.

You know what's really "stupid" though? The FACT that you've insulted me with homophobic comments; saying that "I need to wipe the goo from my chin" or that I have "man love" for Damon Huard. Just a word of advice - that kind of nonsense in a conversation makes you not only look small, but stupid. And it's certainly no way to win a debate.



It really is a shame the board has been permeated with so many weak minds and sensetive vaginas. I have been the butt of more gay jokes on this board than just about any other individual, but you won't find me whining about it like a little girl. Frankly, it is really the only to respond to people like yourslef who are dealing with an obvious obsession. We CANNOT deal in facts, we try and they are dismissed or ignored. We are left no alternative but to mock. It's the way we roll on this board, and it ain't changing no matter how many over-sensitive types show up around here.

Stupid is pretty damn obvious, that is why it is called stupid. A 5 year old can point it out with ease. And this post is a perfect example of your stupidity. No where have I said that Trent is playing well. No where have I said that Damon has not out performed Trent to this point in time. In fact I am on record as saying that Trent has looked bad. I am also on record as saying my main reason for engaging in this discussion is to bring some realism to it by reminding people about Huard's short comings that go ignored by people like you. All of this on record, in this thread even, and yet you are of the opinion that I am blind to the obvious. That, sir, shows your stupidity. I know, it's hard to admit that you aren't smart, but admitting you have a problem is the first step on the road to recovery.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 10:21 PM
Thanks again for calling me stupid and defending your homophobic comments directed towards me and other CP members because you think you're right. IMO you've offered NO facts for your position, just opinion. Whatever.

And if you want to get really personal, Mr. HomoHader, my net worth of over $2.4 million dollars is kind of at odds with your claim of my stupidity. And since that's self-made, without the aid of family, friends or anyone else, I'm guessing that stupid is pretty cool.

But have fun with your expert analysis of others! Much appreciated!



LMAO "I'm not inferior, I have a big bank account!" Get out of here, you are too much.

You know, I've been trying to place you, I know you and I have butted heads before, and as I look at your location it is partly coming back to me. I recall you as being an elitist douch bag. And your crying about me calling you stupid and a Huard obsessed knob polisher seems rather ironic given your elitist stances posted in the past. Get over yourself, and your bank account.

DaneMcCloud
01-03-2007, 10:29 PM
LMAO "I'm not inferior, I have a big bank account!" Get out of here, you are too much.

You know, I've been trying to place you, I know you and I have butted heads before, and as I look at your location it is partly coming back to me. I recall you as being an elitist douch bag. And your crying about me calling you stupid and a Huard obsessed knob polisher seems rather ironic given your elitist stances posted in the past. Get over yourself, and your bank account.

Good for you. I remember you as a 25 year-old, petty loser. So we're even.

Raiderhader
01-03-2007, 10:39 PM
Good for you. I remember you as a 25 year-old, petty loser. So we're even.


If you say so cupcake.

Oh, BTW, Green is starting Saturday. :p

luv
01-04-2007, 01:06 AM
It really is a shame the board has been permeated with so many weak minds and sensetive vaginas. I have been the butt of more gay jokes on this board than just about any other individual, but you won't find me whining about it like a little girl. Frankly, it is really the only to respond to people like yourslef who are dealing with an obvious obsession. We CANNOT deal in facts, we try and they are dismissed or ignored. We are left no alternative but to mock. It's the way we roll on this board, and it ain't changing no matter how many over-sensitive types show up around here.
I'm an over-sensitive type, but I'm trying to correct my ways.

The question remains.....are you gay?

:p

Dartgod
01-04-2007, 06:49 AM
I'm an over-sensitive type, but I'm trying to correct my ways.

The question remains.....are you gay?

:p
There was at least one Best Buy customer that certainly hoped so.

:evil:

Raiderhader
01-04-2007, 04:32 PM
There was at least one Best Buy customer that certainly hoped so.

:evil:



And at least one Black Eyed Pea manager.


But I'm not telling that story.

Calcountry
01-04-2007, 06:00 PM
I dont know..Maybe Green will finally put it all together for one magical time??

Who knows?? Im really torn.....i think he at least deserves to start, but if he plays crappy, then i wouldnt hesitate to pull him.That's my stand, I wonder what Allstates stand is.

Calcountry
01-04-2007, 06:04 PM
I'm wondering if Trent's depth perception has been altered by his injury. Since his return he has thrown numerous balls at the receiver's feet.Yeah, here we go, it was you and I that talked all the Hero worshipers to take a look a LJ over Priest, remember that.

Calcountry
01-04-2007, 06:06 PM
BLIND EYE TO BETTER TALENT!? BLIND EYE TO BETTER TALENT!? Are you f#cking retarded? If Huard is really the second coming of Christ that you all have him pegged as, WHY HASN'T HE BEEN SIGNED AS A STARTER SOME WHERE? The man is a back up for a reason. Get it through your f#cking skulls. BACK UP. Good God, talk about blind eyes....

No, Green has not looked good, save for the Cleveland game. I do not deny that. However, when it comes down to the big game, give me the guy whith more experience, more heart and more leadership ability. I'll take the man who was running one of the besst offenses in the league over the course of 4 years over the guy who warming the f#cking bench during that time. I'll support the leader of my team even while going through the rough stages, because I know he can shake it off. He shook off 2001 and the TrINT moniker, he'll shake off this season too.

Unf#ckingbelievable. Trent had ought to tell this city to f#ck off. Thankfully he won't. Thankfully he will be under center this week. And thankfully we will win, not in spite of him, but with him.I hope you are right dude, nothing would make me happier. But then again, Huard is wearing a Chiefs uni as well, and all I care about, is who has the most points at the end of the game.

DaneMcCloud
01-06-2007, 06:19 PM
It's going to be so sweet bumping all these threads Saturday when Trent plays lights out and leads us to victory.

2 Int's, 1 Fumble. Just like Jacksonville. Lights out? Hopefully. Hopefully we won't have to suffer through his awful play next year.

elvomito
01-06-2007, 06:21 PM
with solari running the offense, our margin of error was so small, huard would have only given us a 6% greater chance of winning, although you should verify that with cdcox.

Redcoats58
01-06-2007, 06:25 PM
Yeah, I just can't put this on Trent. There is 11 guys on offense and the only one that showed up was Kris Wilson and that was for one drive. Herm, Solari, and the offense as a whole, gets the nuthooks.