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Frankie
01-02-2007, 02:08 PM
Draft day 2007. Hypothetical situation:
The Chiefs are up in the first round. There are one each of the following excellent players available all worth their spot. Which one would you pick if it were up to you:

DT
LT
RT
C
WR
FB
CB

Don't be afraid to use player names in your comments.

Dave Lane
01-02-2007, 02:09 PM
With the 32nd pick the Chiefs select....

Hey I can dream can't I?

Dave

KcMizzou
01-02-2007, 02:10 PM
With the 32nd pick the Chiefs select....

Hey I can dream can't I?

DaveDamnit Carl!
:cuss:

Reaching on a "project" again.

Demonpenz
01-02-2007, 02:11 PM
brady quinn

Frankie
01-02-2007, 02:14 PM
I myself am torn between DT and LT. Almost equal in my wish list. But I voted for DT.

CupidStunt
01-02-2007, 02:14 PM
If all players are perfectly equal, I'd take the left tackle, followed by the DT and then the WR.

Frankie
01-02-2007, 02:15 PM
brady quinn
Keep it a little more realistic. No top 5 or even top 10 players please.

Halfcan
01-02-2007, 02:15 PM
I say we reach for a DT project again-lol

El Jefe
01-02-2007, 02:18 PM
Amobi Okoye or Levi Brown, some on this site have said Levi Brown is a real good LT. I havent watched him a lot, so I dont know.

Chiefnj
01-02-2007, 02:23 PM
BAA. If they are all equal - LOT, RT, DT, OG, DE.

Hoover
01-02-2007, 02:24 PM
LT in a heart beat, why is he in the draft, don't the Chargers want him?

eazyb81
01-02-2007, 02:30 PM
Amobi Okoye, he is the perfect DT for our system.

KurtCobain
01-02-2007, 02:33 PM
LT. We need a good YOUNG tackle who we can grow to rely on. We need a DT and WR, but free agency is the way to go to aquire help with those positions.

El Jefe
01-02-2007, 02:36 PM
Joeyranaway, is that Jessica Alba in that little video, if not who is it and what is it from, I cant figure it out.

KurtCobain
01-02-2007, 02:43 PM
Joeyranaway, is that Jessica Alba in that little video, if not who is it and what is it from, I cant figure it out.
Yeah, Jessica Alba from Sin City.

melbar
01-02-2007, 02:47 PM
I too am torn between DT and LT. We are younger on D line and Shields is either gone or has 1 more year. I say LT to add some youth to the O-line and a veteran DT to lead our young D-line.

Chiefs_Fan
01-02-2007, 02:49 PM
DT - LT then WR

Sam Hall
01-02-2007, 02:52 PM
I've heard the second round will feature several quality wide receivers. Guys like Steve Smith. The Chiefs need a DT or OT in the first round, I don't care which one. Both positions must improve one way or another. I think we should watch Okoye tonight against Pitt. I'm interested to see him.

el borracho
01-02-2007, 02:55 PM
Assuming the players available are equally great at their respective positions I would take...

...LT in the first
...DT in the second
...C in the third

edit: All that said, I would have no problem taking a WR or an OG in any of those rounds if that were the best player available.

HemiEd
01-02-2007, 02:57 PM
Best Player Available, even if it is a RB!

patteeu
01-02-2007, 03:10 PM
If all players are perfectly equal, I'd take the left tackle, followed by the DT and then the WR.

Same here.

htismaqe
01-02-2007, 03:16 PM
BAA

siberian khatru
01-02-2007, 03:17 PM
Need a BAA option.

Count Alex's Losses
01-02-2007, 03:23 PM
I wonder if we could use Huard to trade up.

Dark Horse
01-02-2007, 03:25 PM
Keep doubting Jordan Black

Calcountry
01-02-2007, 04:26 PM
With the 32nd pick the Chiefs select....

Hey I can dream can't I?

DaveWhy not? We went 4-0 on a 4 spot parlay ticket last week just to make the playoffs, what's not to like about running the table now that we are in. Talk about Cinderella.

1980 USA Hockey miracle on ice would be replaced as my all time sports high.

Frankie
01-03-2007, 09:37 AM
Amobi Okoye or Levi Brown, some on this site have said Levi Brown is a real good LT. I havent watched him a lot, so I dont know.
Amobi Okoye? Any relation to Christian?

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 09:38 AM
Amobi Okoye? Any relation to Christian?

No. It's an extremely common Nigerian name...

Frankie
01-03-2007, 09:38 AM
BAA. If they are all equal - LOT, RT, DT, OG, DE.
DE? We have 3 good DEs.

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 09:39 AM
DE? We have 3 good DEs.

We need another pass rusher to take pressure off of Hali and Allen. They can't play every down, or they wear down at the end of games.

Frankie
01-03-2007, 09:40 AM
Amobi Okoye, he is the perfect DT for our system.
How late in the first do you think he'll be available?

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 09:42 AM
How late in the first do you think he'll be available?

Depends on the postseason workouts. A good combine or pro day and he could skyrocket.

Frankie
01-03-2007, 09:43 AM
LT. We need a good YOUNG tackle who we can grow to rely on. We need a DT and WR, but free agency is the way to go to aquire help with those positions.
I've been advocating LT in the first round until recently. But Black may keep getting better. If he does, and with Svitek coming back maybe we can afford to wait until the 2nd round for LT. I think DT is now our biggest need.

Chiefnj
01-03-2007, 09:45 AM
DE? We have 3 good DEs.

I'm not sure who you think the third good DE is. Plus, there is a good likelihood that Allen is suspended for 4 games.

Frankie
01-03-2007, 09:47 AM
I'm not sure who you think the third good DE is.
Wilkerson

Frankie
01-03-2007, 09:47 AM
Plus, there is a good likelihood that Allen is suspended for 4 games.
Why?

ct
01-03-2007, 09:47 AM
OT Levi Brown, Penn St.

EDIT:

Amobi Okoye, he is the perfect DT for our system.

Yeah, I'm down with this too!!

[QUOTE=kcchiefsfanGoLJ]Amobi Okoye or Levi Brown...QUOTE]

Guess I should just say ditto.

Redrum_69
01-03-2007, 09:48 AM
We need another QB!!!!

Fairplay
01-03-2007, 09:49 AM
Best athelete available.

ChiTown
01-03-2007, 09:50 AM
We need another QB!!!!

I seriously doubt we draft "another" qb. FA is the route to go there, if Green retires, or Huard leaves.

Redrum_69
01-03-2007, 09:51 AM
You never know though....

I bet we get another one.....

Chiefnj
01-03-2007, 10:02 AM
Why?

2nd DUI. (The case hasn't gone to trial yet).

Hound333
01-03-2007, 10:12 AM
Honestly I would rather have a good OL. When I was young I used to get pissed every year when KC would take a first round OL. Now that I actually know how this game is played its all I wish for. Having a stong OL is way more important than all those skill players. Second most important is the DL so either will suit me. Of course at the pick we will end up with we need to just take the best player available.

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 10:15 AM
OT Levi Brown, Penn St.

EDIT:



Yeah, I'm down with this too!!

[QUOTE=kcchiefsfanGoLJ]Amobi Okoye or Levi Brown...QUOTE]

Guess I should just say ditto.

I've watched Brown play quite a bit and I don't think he fits our offense all that well...he's not agile enough. Maybe I'm just spoiled, but I'd rather have Sam Baker or someone who can pull better like Jake Long...

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 10:16 AM
Wilkerson

He's a tackle.

BigChiefFan
01-03-2007, 10:22 AM
WR Dwayne Jarret from USC would be a good fit. WR isn't the most pressing need, but it a need-this is great value when we pick. Take best available.

SCTrojan
01-03-2007, 10:34 AM
WR Dwayne Jarret from USC would be a good fit. WR isn't the most pressing need, but it a need-this is great value when we pick. Take best available.

Would love for us to get him, but I don't think he'll be there when we draft. I think the earliest we could pick is #20 and I believe he'll be the next WR picked after Calvin Johnson.

I say LT, then DT, then WR.

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 10:41 AM
Would love for us to get him, but I don't think he'll be there when we draft. I think the earliest we could pick is #20 and I believe he'll be the next WR picked after Calvin Johnson.

I say LT, then DT, then WR.

The LT and DT prospects likely to be available at the end of round 1 aren't worth the #20 overall pick. We'd be better off to go LB or CB at that point.

Hound333
01-03-2007, 10:43 AM
If Jarret is there when we pick I think we almost have to take him. He's the second best WR imo and one of the positions we need to improve. I would rather have one of the top two DT's or OL's though.

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 10:46 AM
If Jarret is there when we pick I think we almost have to take him. He's the second best WR imo and one of the positions we need to improve. I would rather have one of the top two DT's or OL's though.

It's more likely that Jarrett is there when we pick. The top two DT's and top two OT's will likely be gone in the top 15, if not the top 10. And there will be good OG's available in the 2nd and 3rd round.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 10:54 AM
Jake Long...
We could get Jake Long easily if we have a sb pick. Then we trade up of Okoye in the second round. Dante Hall would be good trade bait.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 10:56 AM
If Jarret is there when we pick I think we almost have to take him. He's the second best WR imo and one of the positions we need to improve. I would rather have one of the top two DT's or OL's though.

Jarret is going to be the next Mike Williams if he comes out early. Unfortanetly he had a great game in the Rose Bowl and is going to come out anyway.

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 10:56 AM
We could get Jake Long easily if we have a sb pick. Then we trade up of Okoye in the second round. Dante Hall would be good trade bait.

If we're targetting Jake Long (assuming we don't make it to the Super Bowl) we'd probably be wise to try to trade down a few spots.

And you won't get jack for Dante on draft day.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 10:59 AM
If we're targetting Jake Long (assuming we don't make it to the Super Bowl) we'd probably be wise to try to trade down a few spots.

And you won't get jack for Dante on draft day.

Jake Long looks like Willie Roaf, but he is a lot taller.

crazycoffey
01-03-2007, 11:00 AM
The list is pretty long, first pick all great choices it seems it would have to be between the DT and LT. Since Def has made some improvemnts and Off has deteriated. My call is for the LT we thought we would have this year. Get the O moving in the right direction.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 11:00 AM
Jake Long looks like Willie Roaf, but he is a lot taller.

If you guys haven't noticed, we haven't been able to run sweeps all season. We need some good tackles now. Screw Jarret or any WR, if we have an oline, we don't need to throw.

MahiMike
01-03-2007, 11:00 AM
Drafts are for linemen. Free agency is for skill positions. Go DT 3 times in a row.

Iowanian
01-03-2007, 11:35 AM
If there are "Excellent" players available at all positions listed.....I'll take a LT.

My wish list, unless addressed in FA....is LT-DT(best player) in the first.

I think the Chiefs need help on the Oline(T,G,C), DT, another DE, WR and dare to dream an OLB.

I'm not unconvinced some of the holes on the Oline can't be fixed with current roster holders, if the T position can be addressed.

Frankie
01-03-2007, 12:30 PM
2nd DUI. (The case hasn't gone to trial yet).
I hadn't heard that

Frankie
01-03-2007, 12:32 PM
He's a tackle.
Back up end too.

BigChiefFan
01-03-2007, 12:36 PM
If you guys haven't noticed, we haven't been able to run sweeps all season. We need some good tackles now. Screw Jarret or any WR, if we have an oline, we don't need to throw.
Again, the OT's worthy of our pick will most likely be gone. Reaching for players is what dismantles at team in a hurry. Jarret has 216 catches for over 3100 yards and 41 tds and he's only 20 years old. He will be a quality number two possession receiver in the NFL. The Chiefs need an upgrade at the position because Sammie Parker drops a bunch and kills drives. A possession WR keeps the drives alive and the defense off the field. Nobody is disputing we need a LT, just that reaching for a LT could be disasterious.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 12:50 PM
Again, the OT's worthy of our pick will most likely be gone. Reaching for players is what dismantles at team in a hurry. Jarret has 216 catches for over 3100 yards and 41 tds and he's only 20 years old. He will be a quality number two possession receiver in the NFL. The Chiefs need an upgrade at the position because Sammie Parker drops a bunch and kills drives. A possession WR keeps the drives alive and the defense off the field. Nobody is disputing we need a LT, just that reaching for a LT could be disasterious.

how so?

Mecca
01-03-2007, 12:58 PM
Jarret is going to be the next Mike Williams if he comes out early. Unfortanetly he had a great game in the Rose Bowl and is going to come out anyway.

Just so you know Mike Williams and Dwayne Jarrett aren't even remotely similiar other than they're both tall. That's it nothing else about them is even remotely the same.

Jarrett is going to be a #1 in the NFL....he's not a blazer but he's very quick, catches with his hands and is a playmaker. His height and abilty to know how to use his body will make him a very very good NFL WR. It takes more than just straight speed to be able to play WR in the NFL, although people won't think so on draft day when Ted Ginn goes higher than Jarrett.

Mecca
01-03-2007, 12:59 PM
how so?

Reaching for positions of need is how you get a bust and have a shitty draft, remember recent Chiefs drafts? Reaching for needs is how you get guys like Junior Siavii, you are much better off taking the best player than picking a certain position be damned of who's there.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 01:12 PM
Just so you know Mike Williams and Dwayne Jarrett aren't even remotely similiar other than they're both tall. That's it nothing else about them is even remotely the same.

Jarrett is going to be a #1 in the NFL....he's not a blazer but he's very quick, catches with his hands and is a playmaker. His height and abilty to know how to use his body will make him a very very good NFL WR. It takes more than just straight speed to be able to play WR in the NFL, although people won't think so on draft day when Ted Ginn goes higher than Jarrett.
Don't take my word for it, take Herbstreets. My 100th post, I am so proud.

Mecca
01-03-2007, 01:13 PM
Don't take my word for it, take Herbstreets. My 100th post, I am so proud.

Yea and he said Michigan is better than USC too......Herbstreit is about like Joe Theisman occasionally they say something entertaining but 90% of the time they're just completely retarded.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 01:13 PM
Reaching for positions of need is how you get a bust and have a shitty draft, remember recent Chiefs drafts? Reaching for needs is how you get guys like Junior Siavii, you are much better off taking the best player than picking a certain position be damned of who's there.
We didn't exactly reach, we went down. that was gay and I knew that was a bust pick right when they did it.

Fairplay
01-03-2007, 01:16 PM
We didn't exactly reach, we went down. that was gay and I knew that was a bust pick right when they did it.



I remember a lot of people on here saying WTF? When we did that.

Chiefs fugged up in that draft bigtime.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 01:19 PM
Who screws up like that? He had one good year. Why take that guy? Wasn't Gamble available at that time? We needed a cornerback bad that year. Carl in action baby!

Mecca
01-03-2007, 01:20 PM
I remember a lot of people on here saying WTF? When we did that.

Chiefs fugged up in that draft bigtime.

The DT they thought they would get got picked before their pick so......they heavily reached on another guy they liked because Vermiel and his coaches had to have a DT and refused to just take the best player.

HemiEd
01-03-2007, 01:23 PM
Drafts are for linemen. Free agency is for skill positions. Go DT 3 times in a row.

We did that already, Sims, Freeman and Siavii. For good measure add in Wilkerson, Sharpe and Downing all drafted 2001 and later.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 01:25 PM
We did that already, Sims, Freeman and Siavii. For good measure add in Wilkerson, Sharpe and Downing all drafted 2001 and later.
downing wasn't bad

Mecca
01-03-2007, 01:26 PM
downing wasn't bad

Compared to what a pile of shit?

el borracho
01-03-2007, 01:31 PM
I remember a lot of people on here saying WTF? When we did that.

Chiefs fugged up in that draft bigtime.
The Chiefs traded down gambling that Olshansky would still be there. They lost that bet and, to make matters worse, the Chiefs proceeded to panic and select a project with their first pick.

el borracho
01-03-2007, 01:34 PM
We did that already, Sims, Freeman and Siavii. For good measure add in Wilkerson, Sharpe and Downing all drafted 2001 and later.
This line of thinking vexes me. It is the equivalent to saying, "the last few times I have gone out with women, I have gotten hurt. I guess I won't go out with women anymore".

el borracho
01-03-2007, 01:35 PM
downing wasn't bad
Yes, he was.

Mecca
01-03-2007, 01:37 PM
This line of thinking vexes me. It is the equivalent to saying, "the last few times I have gone out with women, I have gotten hurt. I guess I won't go out with women anymore".

Some people are weird about that shit.........just wait till the flood of posts about how Dwayne Jarrett sucks because he's a USC WR and gets compared to Mike Williams.

Fairplay
01-03-2007, 01:37 PM
Thats what tests good scouting for teams.

Figureing out what picks are diamonds in the rough in the 3-7th picks.

Any football laymen can watch ESPN and pick the the first and second round.

Mecca
01-03-2007, 01:38 PM
Thats what tests good scouting for teams.

Figureing out what picks are diamonds in the rough in the 3-7th picks.

Any football laymen can watch ESPN and pick the the first and second round.

Really......the 1st and 2nd rounds are usually where the Chiefs are awful.....we should just let Mel Kiper draft for us.

HemiEd
01-03-2007, 01:40 PM
The Chiefs traded down gambling that Olshansky would still be there. They lost that bet and, to make matters worse, the Chiefs proceeded to panic and select a project with their first pick.

Pretty accurate description, Marty plucked Olshansky right in front of the Chiefs pick IIRC. Good thing Carl, woke up, dusted himself off and picked Kris Wilson though. :D

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 01:42 PM
Some people are weird about that shit.........just wait till the flood of posts about how Dwayne Jarrett sucks because he's a USC WR and gets compared to Mike Williams.

The differences between Williams and Jarrett are striking...to the tune of about 75 pounds. :D

Seriously, I was pretty spot on when I felt that Williams was lacking in WR skills and would end up ballooning into a wannabe TE.

Jarrett is going to be a GOOD WR in this league. VERY GOOD.

Mecca
01-03-2007, 01:42 PM
We should have taken Karlos Dansby that year.......I was heavily pissed when we didn't.

Fairplay
01-03-2007, 01:43 PM
Really......the 1st and 2nd rounds are usually where the Chiefs are awful.....we should just let Mel Kiper draft for us.




Hes the draft guru i could live with that.

Mecca
01-03-2007, 01:43 PM
The differences between Williams and Jarrett are striking...to the tune of about 75 pounds. :D

Seriously, I was pretty spot on when I felt that Williams was lacking in WR skills and would end up ballooning into a wannabe TE.

Jarrett is going to be a GOOD WR in this league. VERY GOOD.

I still think Williams can play in the league.....but he is limited. If Keyshawn Johnson with his 0 speed can play in the league Mike Williams can.

HemiEd
01-03-2007, 01:43 PM
This line of thinking vexes me. It is the equivalent to saying, "the last few times I have gone out with women, I have gotten hurt. I guess I won't go out with women anymore".

You could look at it that way, or learn from your mistakes, both ways of looking at it. I believe in staying the course as much as the next guy, but my god, we suck at drafting DTs.
I would personally like to see them throw big bucks, or even rediculous money at a proven player.

ct
01-03-2007, 01:46 PM
I've watched Brown play quite a bit and I don't think he fits our offense all that well...he's not agile enough. Maybe I'm just spoiled, but I'd rather have Sam Baker or someone who can pull better like Jake Long...

I've heard that before, that he's not so mobile. But that's exactly why he could slide to the 20s. If he could move really well with that size, he'd go much earlier. Still a solid OT prospect.

I thought Baker was goin back to USC? I like him very much too.

ct
01-03-2007, 01:48 PM
I still think Williams can play in the league.....but he is limited. If Keyshawn Johnson with his 0 speed can play in the league Mike Williams can.

Keyshawn had the desire to succeed. Mike Williams a friggin bum! And that bum prolly would have been a Chief, instead of DJ. Thank you Matt Millen!!!

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 01:52 PM
A steal is Cory Hall from Boise State, he would make an awesome addition to the Chiefs linebacker corps. He is an animal.

TRR
01-03-2007, 02:06 PM
I would like a stud DT/WR in round 1 and 2. I don't care what order KC drafts them in.

I think Jordan Black has really turned the corner at LT, and I think Welbourn/Terry can be counted on for the next couple of seasons at RT. I also think Surtain and Law will be around for a couple of more seasons with two young CB's in Walls and Sapp backing them up.

A DT/WR is what I would like. Unless an ungodly MLB slips to KC, then I would like Kawika Mitchell walk for the big money.

SCTrojan
01-03-2007, 02:21 PM
I thought Baker was goin back to USC? I like him very much too.

Yep. Sam has declared he's coming back. An intriguing prospect, IMO, is center Ryan Kalil in the later rounds. A bit undersized, and I'm not sure how he'll do. But Wiegmann can't last forever.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 02:27 PM
Yep. Sam has declared he's coming back. An intriguing prospect, IMO, is center Ryan Kalil in the later rounds. A bit undersized, and I'm not sure how he'll do. But Wiegmann can't last forever.
My Dream Draft for this year
1. Joe Thomas
2. Korey Hall
3. Best DT on the board
4. CB
5. WR
6. DE
7. Zabransky

Frankie
01-03-2007, 02:40 PM
I think Jordan Black has really turned the corner at LT, ....
That's why I lean towards a stud DT in the first after spending months bein on LT bandwagon. I'm hoping JB has improved enough to play solid at the LT position. But I'm basing that hope on mostly word of mouth as I haven't watched the Chiefs for three weeks now. How was Black in the last 2 or 3 games?

Frankie
01-03-2007, 02:41 PM
Yep. Sam has declared he's coming back. An intriguing prospect, IMO, is center Ryan Kalil in the later rounds. A bit undersized, and I'm not sure how he'll do. But Wiegmann can't last forever. Wiegmann's play hasn't been all that great this year.

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 02:58 PM
My Dream Draft for this year
1. Joe Thomas
2. Korey Hall
3. Best DT on the board
4. CB
5. WR
6. DE
7. Zabransky

We have absolutely zero shot at Joe Thomas.

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 03:00 PM
Yep. Sam has declared he's coming back. An intriguing prospect, IMO, is center Ryan Kalil in the later rounds. A bit undersized, and I'm not sure how he'll do. But Wiegmann can't last forever.

It's a real shame, because Baker would have been perfect.

Another guy that could be had in the 3rd or 4th round that would be a perfect fit in our offense is Mike Jones out of Iowa. He's probably the best OG in the draft that nobody has ever heard of. He operates well in Iowa's zone blocking scheme, which is very similar to the Chiefs offense as far as what it requires of it's OL when they get into the open...

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 04:13 PM
We have absolutely zero shot at Joe Thomas.
Jake Lang whatever. Like I said, Dream Draft. Maybe Matt Millen will make a mistake and give us their Draft Pick.

DaWolf
01-03-2007, 04:14 PM
Best player available. Worked out nicely with LJ.

That said, if all are equal, we are really overdue a WR. We need to get Gonzo some help in the passing game. Either that or LT. And if it is a stud DT and we take him, I will not shed any tears, because we need to improve that interior BADLY...

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 04:37 PM
Best player available. Worked out nicely with LJ.

That said, if all are equal, we are really overdue a WR. We need to get Gonzo some help in the passing game. Either that or LT. And if it is a stud DT and we take him, I will not shed any tears, because we need to improve that interior BADLY...
We should wait until next year and get Blythe late. He is a tall boy from Iowa State.

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 04:39 PM
We should wait until next year and get Blythe late. He is a tall boy from Iowa State.

I wonder if Blythe has what it takes to make it in the NFL. He's tall and he's got good straight-line speed, but that's about it.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 04:43 PM
I wonder if Blythe has what it takes to make it in the NFL. He's tall and he's got good straight-line speed, but that's about it.
Our QB needs a big target.

ChiTown
01-03-2007, 04:44 PM
BAA - doesn't matter who the F it is.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 04:47 PM
BAA - doesn't matter who the F it is.
nice video, stupid comment. Blythe is special and is the key to a good recieving corps.

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 04:49 PM
Our QB needs a big target.

That's what TE's are for.

Besides, you can get big targets (see Dwayne Jarrett, 6'4") without sacrificing quickness and route running.

Pitt Gorilla
01-03-2007, 04:50 PM
Left tackle. DT and WR a distant 2nd and 3rd.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 04:51 PM
That's what TE's are for.

Besides, you can get big targets (see Dwayne Jarrett, 6'4") without sacrificing quickness and route running.
why not get both. Blythe is coming out next year.

Pitt Gorilla
01-03-2007, 04:51 PM
BAA - doesn't matter who the F it is.That...is...awesome.

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 04:52 PM
why not get both. Blythe is coming out next year.

Because I don't like Blythe as an NFL prospect.

Mecca
01-03-2007, 04:54 PM
Because I don't like Blythe as an NFL prospect.

I bet he runs into the exact same thing Jeff Webb did.....if you go look at Webbs 40 it looks fine in the 4.4's but no one believes he plays at that speed or can run that way on a football field.....

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 04:55 PM
I don't think Jarret will, but Blythe is a safe later round pick next year. I think Corey Hall will be a diamond in the rough

htismaqe
01-03-2007, 04:56 PM
I bet he runs into the exact same thing Jeff Webb did.....if you go look at Webbs 40 it looks fine in the 4.4's but no one believes he plays at that speed or can run that way on a football field.....

That's actually a pretty good analogy. Blythe is the kind of player that will get drafted 2nd-day because he's big and somewhat fast. And he'll get buried all year on someone's depth chart, never to see the field.

ChiTown
01-03-2007, 04:57 PM
nice video, stupid comment. Blythe is special and is the key to a good recieving corps.

Thanks, and STFU

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 04:59 PM
Thanks, and STFU
I think I stopped watching that game two minutes before they showed that.

Mecca
01-03-2007, 05:03 PM
I'll give you a theory I like to use when looking at players.....

When I look at DB's, WR's, and Tackles, I always look at the Pac 10 first. Why? Because everyone is running a pro style offense......throws the ball alot more and I think those players are generally alot more NFL ready at those positions.

People can rate out guys like Leon Hall and Marcus McCauley as the best corners.....but for me I'd take a guy like Daymeion Hughes.

Mr. Laz
01-03-2007, 05:03 PM
doesn't really matter as long as the word "Excellent" is involved.

i think we've been expecting too much from Carl.


i mean as long as it's a good pick, we gotta stop asking for a certain position at the same time.


if you have a special needs child you don't ask them to join Mensa. You're just glad when they are happy and don't trip over their imagine dog, Gomer.


Carl might be a short bus, special Olympics type of kid ........... but HE'S OUR dumb ass.

we need to lower our expectations accordingly.

ChiTown
01-03-2007, 05:04 PM
Here's the deal:

RARELY, when the Chiefs have drafted in the early rounds for need, do they get their man - Rarely. You get the best available athlete and work around it. If we need a DT or LT, WR, etc, that we didn't get in the draft, then you go after that spot in FA.

Carl has done a decent job of this in later rounds, but he blows significant chunks going after "needs" in the early going. jmo.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 05:05 PM
I'll give you a theory I like to use when looking at players.....

When I look at DB's, WR's, and Tackles, I always look at the Pac 10 first. Why? Because everyone is running a pro style offense......throws the ball alot more and I think those players are generally alot more NFL ready at those positions.

People can rate out guys like Leon Hall and Marcus McCauley as the best corners.....but for me I'd take a guy like Daymeion Hughes.

I go Big 10 for linemen and Pac-10 for QBS and ACC for CBS

Adept Havelock
01-03-2007, 05:34 PM
As long as their position ends in the word Tackle, I'm good.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 05:39 PM
As long as their position ends in the word Tackle, I'm good.

If you consider: "And Korey Hall makes the tackle" then cool beans

38yrsfan
01-03-2007, 05:41 PM
Paul Posluszny, OLB, Penn State .... I know Chiefs are strong at this spot but this guy is good, would most likely be available and not to pricey.

OR

Alan Branch, DT, Michigan ... strong potential, had average showing in bowl game though. (Trade with Cleveland to move up)

Mr. Laz
01-03-2007, 05:42 PM
Here's the deal
wonderful sig, Chi.

:p

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 05:43 PM
Paul Posluszny, OLB, Penn State .... I know Chiefs are strong at this spot but this guy is good, would most likely be available and not to pricey.

OR

Alan Branch, DT, Michigan ... strong potential, had average showing in bowl game though.

Ok Big Ten homer, do you want Tate to be our new starting QB too?

milkman
01-03-2007, 07:35 PM
LT. We need a good YOUNG tackle who we can grow to rely on. We need a DT and WR, but free agency is the way to go to aquire help with those positions.

I don't remember who exactly was on the list of perspective free agents this offseason, but there wasn't anyone that really stood out.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 07:38 PM
Oh well

milkman
01-03-2007, 07:48 PM
For the record, I'm on board the BAA bandwagon.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 07:49 PM
People, maybe Brady Quinn will pull a Willis Mcgahee and break his leg tonite. Then we could grab him in the first round.

Mecca
01-03-2007, 07:59 PM
People, maybe Brady Quinn will pull a Willis Mcgahee and break his leg tonite. Then we could grab him in the first round.

I don't like Quinn........if he amounts to anything I'll be surprised.

Tribal Warfare
01-03-2007, 08:02 PM
Alan Branch, DT, Michigan ... strong potential, had average showing in bowl game though. (Trade with Cleveland to move up)


not gonna happen

suds79
01-03-2007, 08:03 PM
Wow I was surprised to see DT #1.

I mean what player has been a total failure more than Jordan Black?

Reed & Edwards have done a respectable job. It's when they have to sub out is when we have a problem. IMO our DT problem is with our rotation.

LT is a problem because our starter is just flat out awful.

Tribal Warfare
01-03-2007, 08:05 PM
Wow I was surprised to see DT #1.

I mean what player has been a total failure more than Jordan Black?

Reed & Edwards have done a respectable job. It's when they have to sub out is when we have a problem. IMO our DT problem is with our rotation.

LT is a problem because our starter is just flat out awful.



The Tackle position in the Draft is exstremely thin beyond Thomas.

milkman
01-03-2007, 08:24 PM
Wow I was surprised to see DT #1.

I mean what player has been a total failure more than Jordan Black?

Reed & Edwards have done a respectable job. It's when they have to sub out is when we have a problem. IMO our DT problem is with our rotation.

LT is a problem because our starter is just flat out awful.

Tribal Warfare covered the OT part of it.

But Reed and Edwards would make nice depth at DT, but they are mediocre starters.

We need a guy that commands respect.

Priest4Prez
01-03-2007, 08:26 PM
I don't like Quinn........if he amounts to anything I'll be surprised.
same with jarret

penchief
01-03-2007, 09:04 PM
I picked the obvious (DT) because I think that a stud in the middle could transform our defense from middle of the pack to elite. Of course, we need a quality young corner and another MLB, imo.

But I'd take either a LT or C next. I think a guy like Nick Mangold can have just as much impact on offensive line play as a quality left tackle. I'm concerned that we'll need a center sooner rather than later.

Mecca
01-03-2007, 11:21 PM
same with jarret

Who's performed on the big stage Jarrett or Quinn.....oh yea that's right.....

Silock
01-03-2007, 11:40 PM
Neither Levi Brown nor Okoye will be there when we pick, so I'm not sure.

Priest4Prez
01-04-2007, 08:06 AM
Who's performed on the big stage Jarrett or Quinn.....oh yea that's right.....
we really don't need a WR in the first round or a QB reallly. When is Lang projected to go?

morphius
01-04-2007, 08:11 AM
We have enough "needs" that I just want them to pick the best available player/athlete and roll with it. Heck you could even toss in LB to that list as Bell should probably be sitting, or else we will have Bell play DE at the beginning of the season with Allen being suspended.

Ugh, what a mess.

Chiefnj
01-04-2007, 08:13 AM
Neither Levi Brown nor Okoye will be there when we pick, so I'm not sure.

It's too early to tell. This time last year Kiwi was looked at as a top 10 pick and Gabe Watson a top 20 pick.

Sam Hall
01-04-2007, 08:22 AM
If those guys won't be available, than maybe we should look at DeMarcus Tyler or Paul Posluszny.

Thoughts? Posluszny has injury issues.

mylittlepony
01-04-2007, 08:25 AM
BAA sounds good to me. I got converted when I lernt that we got Brian Waters as a TE-DE and he is a rock at Guard right now.

Fairplay
01-04-2007, 08:32 AM
Reaching for needs is how you get guys like Junior Siavii, you are much better off taking the best player than picking a certain position be damned of who's there.



I also thought of that draft to trade down to get Junior Siavii was also so King Carl wouldn't have to shell out as much money as he would have had to if the Chiefs got a first rounder. Cheap bastard and stupid decision.

htismaqe
01-04-2007, 09:32 AM
If we decide we NEED a defensive tackle, DRAFT ONE.

DO NOT TRY TO GET ONE IN FREE AGENCY. They almost never work out.

The thing that bothers me about Posluszny is I wonder how he will translate to the NFL. He is primarily an effort player.

Frankie
01-04-2007, 09:44 AM
We have enough "needs" that I just want them to pick the best available player/athlete and roll with it. Heck you could even toss in LB to that list as Bell should probably be sitting, or else we will have Bell play DE at the beginning of the season with Allen being suspended.

Ugh, what a mess.
It's not as bad as you say. We need to fill holes. So I say we draft for need. If there's a BAA available in the position that we are set in, we can try to trade down and get a player for need later.

htismaqe
01-04-2007, 09:52 AM
It's not as bad as you say. We need to fill holes. So I say we draft for need. If there's a BAA available in the position that we are set in, we can try to trade down and get a player for need later.

We've got holes:

Need a starting OG
Need a starting OT
Need a starting WR
Need a backup TE
Need a backup/starting FB
Need a backup OG

Need a backup DE
Need a starting DT
Need a starting DT
Need a starting LB
Need a backup CB
Need a backup S

We should draft for best available athlete. We're guaranteed to fill a need.

Mecca
01-04-2007, 11:46 AM
we really don't need a WR in the first round or a QB reallly. When is Lang projected to go?

You haven't been watching the WR's we field much eh.....

Frankie
01-04-2007, 11:50 AM
We've got holes:

Need a starting OG
(Among Black and others we should be able to find one. Anyway it seems starting OGs are easier to find or develop. We've had a perenial probowler who was drafted in the third. Another who was an undrafted convert, and a pretty solid one who was drafted in the 7th. I don't consider that a major hole. Especially if Shields returns for one more year.)
Need a starting OT
(Black's alleged continuing development might ease that need a bit. But I do think we need to draft a LT in the first two rounds.)
Need a starting WR
(Yes. But I have hope that Webb will develop into at least a solid 2 soon.)
Need a backup TE
(Not if both Gonzo and Dunn are back)
Need a backup/starting FB
(FA)
Need a backup OG
(FA)
Need a backup DE
(I think Wilkerson can be counted on as a pretty good back up there)Need a starting DT
Need a starting DT
(Totally agree. I'm thinking first round.)
Need a starting LB
(Don't discount Fox)
Need a backup CB
(FA)
Need a backup S
(One of our current starters can fill that role)

We should draft for best available athlete. We're guaranteed to fill a need.

I know my comments above are optimistic. But keep in mind that there's not one team in the NFL without holes if we go by your criteria.

FreeSafety36
01-04-2007, 12:04 PM
Greetings Chiefs fans. I'm a Bills fan, and we're doing a mock GM draft on our message board. I chose to be the mock GM of the Chiefs, and I want to represent a proud organization well. From what I've seen of the Chiefs, and studying the depth chart, this is what I've determined appear to be the most critical team needs, I welcome and appreciate your guys input on what I have here:

1a: Defensive Tackle
1b: Left offensive tackle
2: Wide receiver

After these 3, which are the obvious ones, I must admit I'm at a disadvantage from not seeing much of the Chiefs' games this year. I have a few questions I'm hoping some of you guys can help me with. Is Tre Stallings panning out at all, or is another OG needed to fill Will Shields spot when he's done? What is the general consensus on the signability and returns of Jared Allen and Tony Gonzalez? I feel both will be retained, but was wondering what you guys have heard, think or feel about those situations. How do you guys feel about your CB situation? Is Law and Surtain the long-term duo back there?

I guess at this point, the rest of my Chiefs board team needs looks like:


3. CB

Thanks in advance for your help guys!

Mecca
01-04-2007, 12:24 PM
Greetings Chiefs fans. I'm a Bills fan, and we're doing a mock GM draft on our message board. I chose to be the mock GM of the Chiefs, and I want to represent a proud organization well. From what I've seen of the Chiefs, and studying the depth chart, this is what I've determined appear to be the most critical team needs, I welcome and appreciate your guys input on what I have here:

1a: Defensive Tackle
1b: Left offensive tackle
2: Wide receiver

After these 3, which are the obvious ones, I must admit I'm at a disadvantage from not seeing much of the Chiefs' games this year. I have a few questions I'm hoping some of you guys can help me with. Is Tre Stallings panning out at all, or is another OG needed to fill Will Shields spot when he's done? What is the general consensus on the signability and returns of Jared Allen and Tony Gonzalez? I feel both will be retained, but was wondering what you guys have heard, think or feel about those situations. How do you guys feel about your CB situation? Is Law and Surtain the long-term duo back there?

I guess at this point, the rest of my Chiefs board team needs looks like:


3. CB

Thanks in advance for your help guys!

Just take the best player on the board.....other than RB. We have holes everywhere.

WilliamTheIrish
01-04-2007, 12:27 PM
Greetings Chiefs fans. I'm a Bills fan, and we're doing a mock GM draft....!


You're in luck!! We pretty much mock every draft pick.

Mecca
01-04-2007, 12:28 PM
I know my comments above are optimistic. But keep in mind that there's not one team in the NFL without holes if we go by your criteria.

Just so you know Jeff Webb is likely to always be what he is now....The current safety starters make to much money to be backups...and signing FA corners either nets you a crappy player or an overpaid player.

htismaqe
01-04-2007, 12:34 PM
I know my comments above are optimistic. But keep in mind that there's not one team in the NFL without holes if we go by your criteria.

Your comments are overly optimistic, IMO.

OG - Shields is not himself. Even if he doesn't retire, I don't see how we can depend on him for another full 16 games. Welbourn is a substance abuse offender. Next offense is 16 games. Any solution that involves Jordan Black isn't a solution, it's a band-aid.

WR - hoping Webb becomes anything at all is a dream at best. We've spent 15 years hoping that some 2nd-day draft pick becomes something. The only one that did only did so after he left (Joe Horn).

TE - Dunn finished the year on IR, with a BACK problem. And Gonzo is in a contract dispute. Kris Wilson is now a fullback. We need a TE, if for nothing else but for the future.

FB - could be had in FA. Still a need.

DE - Wilkerson has worked almost exclusively at DT this season, and he's never shown that he can be a consistent pass-rusher. We don't need a solid DE, we need a pass rusher to take some pressure off of Allen and Hali.

DT - we need TWO. Combine that with the fact that free agent DT's hardly ever pan out.

LB - I was a big Fox backer, and he does have a nose for the ball. But how many years does it take to wrap someone up when you go for the tackle? Even if Fox starts in place of Bell, we need a backup.

CB - I strongly disagree that we should look for a CB in free agency. It's time for us to draft a CBoTF, someone we can groom to take over when Law retires.

Frankie
01-04-2007, 12:35 PM
After these 3, which are the obvious ones, I must admit I'm at a disadvantage from not seeing much of the Chiefs' games this year.
Carl Peterson, is that you?

FreeSafety36
01-04-2007, 12:37 PM
mecca- thanks, but every team has holes, and most spots can be upgraded. As a fan who suffered through 5 years of Tom Donahoe's "best player available" drafts that got us... 1. a 39-57 record in that span,2. almost no talented offensive linemen, 3. a stable of very mediocre D tackles, 4. an average RB that we reached in the first round for, 5. a 3rd round TE that has produced nothing but penalties in 2 years, 6. a QB carousel that featured 6 starters over that 5 year span ...I'm not a best player available guy.

We'll be doing our first draft before free agency starts, and we'll do another once we're finished and free agency has been open for a month, so obviously things will change in the 2nd one due to FA. I'm just wondering what your guys opinions are on where you need the most help at immediately. And which of your holes do you feel are the most gaping and need addressing first. Thanks

Mecca
01-04-2007, 12:37 PM
If we could get Dwayne Jarrett and Daymeion Hughes with our first 2 picks I'd be thrilled.......of course I'd expect some freaking out on here.

Mecca
01-04-2007, 12:38 PM
mecca- thanks, but every team has holes, and most spots can be upgraded. As a fan who suffered through 5 years of Tom Donahoe's "best player available" drafts that got us... 1. a 39-57 record in that span,2. almost no talented offensive linemen, 3. a stable of very mediocre D tackles, 4. an average RB that we reached in the first round for, 5. a 3rd round TE that has produced nothing but penalties in 2 years, 6. a QB carousel that featured 6 starters over that 5 year span ...I'm not a best player available guy.

We'll be doing our first draft before free agency starts, and we'll do another once we're finished and free agency has been open for a month, so obviously things will change in the 2nd one due to FA. I'm just wondering what your guys opinions are on where you need the most help at immediately. And which of your holes do you feel are the most gaping and need addressing first. Thanks

But he didn't even know how to rate players....you guys took Chris Kelsay over Jason Witten.

htismaqe
01-04-2007, 12:43 PM
mecca- thanks, but every team has holes, and most spots can be upgraded. As a fan who suffered through 5 years of Tom Donahoe's "best player available" drafts that got us... 1. a 39-57 record in that span,2. almost no talented offensive linemen, 3. a stable of very mediocre D tackles, 4. an average RB that we reached in the first round for, 5. a 3rd round TE that has produced nothing but penalties in 2 years, 6. a QB carousel that featured 6 starters over that 5 year span ...I'm not a best player available guy.

We'll be doing our first draft before free agency starts, and we'll do another once we're finished and free agency has been open for a month, so obviously things will change in the 2nd one due to FA. I'm just wondering what your guys opinions are on where you need the most help at immediately. And which of your holes do you feel are the most gaping and need addressing first. Thanks

Our most gaping hole is at DT. However, it's highly likely that there won't be a DT there worth our pick.

If we reach for a DT AGAIN, I'm gonna be mega-pissed.

htismaqe
01-04-2007, 12:44 PM
If we could get Dwayne Jarrett and Daymeion Hughes with our first 2 picks I'd be thrilled.......of course I'd expect some freaking out on here.

That's a good draft right there.

htismaqe
01-04-2007, 12:46 PM
I'll give you a theory I like to use when looking at players.....

When I look at DB's, WR's, and Tackles, I always look at the Pac 10 first. Why? Because everyone is running a pro style offense......throws the ball alot more and I think those players are generally alot more NFL ready at those positions.

People can rate out guys like Leon Hall and Marcus McCauley as the best corners.....but for me I'd take a guy like Daymeion Hughes.

Most of the teams in the Big 10 play pro-style offenses too. Even the teams that run the spread don't run it the way TTech and the WAC teams do.

Leon Hall is going to be a very good CB in the NFL.

Mecca
01-04-2007, 12:47 PM
Most of the teams in the Big 10 play pro-style offenses too. Even the teams that run the spread don't run it the way TTech and the WAC teams do.

Leon Hall is going to be a very good CB in the NFL.

Both times I've seen Hall face off against players at his level......he got ass raped. He couldn't play with Jarrett or Ginn in their last 2 games, that's a problem.

FreeSafety36
01-04-2007, 12:51 PM
I agree Donahoe couldn't rate players. Thus the nickname I bestowed upon him.. Tom Don'tknowhow. It was his persistency to ignore the team needs and draft what he felt was the best player that was his downfall in personnel. Well, that and his choices for head coach.

After the 5 years Don'tknowhow spent ruining our team, we currently have 3 starters on offense that were his draft picks. On defense we have 5 starters that were his picks. He used one pick to try to address the O line in the time he was here, that was Mike Williams in '02 with the 4th overall. Williams busted, but that's no reason to shy away from all other tackles in the draft.

I still don't like the bpa approach. I don't feel you should reach for a player just because he fills a need, but I do believe you try to fill needs before grabbing a guy you really don't need.

Mecca
01-04-2007, 12:53 PM
I agree Donahoe couldn't rate players. Thus the nickname I bestowed upon him.. Tom Don'tknowhow. It was his persistency to ignore the team needs and draft what he felt was the best player that was his downfall in personnel. Well, that and his choices for head coach.

After the 5 years Don'tknowhow spent ruining our team, we currently have 3 starters on offense that were his draft picks. On defense we have 5 starters that were his picks. He used one pick to try to address the O line in the time he was here, that was Mike Williams in '02 with the 4th overall. Williams busted, but that's no reason to shy away from all other tackles in the draft.

I still don't like the bpa approach. I don't feel you should reach for a player just because he fills a need, but I do believe you try to fill needs before grabbing a guy you really don't need.

That Williams pick was really stupid considering he was a RT and not a LT. You guys hit on a few guys, like I was a big fan of Lee Evans.

FreeSafety36
01-04-2007, 01:01 PM
Yeah, he did make a few good picks. Evans, Clements, Crowell and Winfield. But he also took Willis McGahee (when we had a 1400 yard back already in Travis Henry) and left Larry Johnson on the board. As well as Eric Steinbach and Vincent Manuwai when guard was a huge need (and still is).

He drafted Roscoe Parrish with Justin Miller and Bryant McFadden on the board when we had just lost 3 defensive starters in Antoine Winfield, Pierson Prioleau and Pat Williams. Then he follows up that pick with Kevin Everett, the bust TE from the U.

Mecca
01-04-2007, 01:03 PM
Your team is great at not resigning corners........is Clements leaving too?

Frankie
01-04-2007, 01:04 PM
I think by the time the draft comes along my first choice will be from the following DTs. Would you rate and compare them for me?

Amobi Okoye, Louisville
DeMarcus Tyler, North Carolina State
Glenn Dorsey, LSU

htismaqe
01-04-2007, 01:05 PM
Both times I've seen Hall face off against players at his level......he got ass raped. He couldn't play with Jarrett or Ginn in their last 2 games, that's a problem.

I should have separated the two thoughts a little better.

Hall's got technique problems. Those can be corrected. He's got tons of talent. He's just a little raw.

By and large, I would say Big 10 CB's are as "ready" as Pac 10 QB's because Big 10 offenses are pretty similar to the Pac 10.

FreeSafety36
01-04-2007, 01:08 PM
That Williams pick was really stupid considering he was a RT and not a LT. You guys hit on a few guys, like I was a big fan of Lee Evans.

Last year we tried Williams at RT for 8 games. Until he lost the job to UDFA Jason Peters. Then Marv came in and cut fat mike.

htismaqe
01-04-2007, 01:12 PM
Yeah, he did make a few good picks. Evans, Clements, Crowell and Winfield. But he also took Willis McGahee (when we had a 1400 yard back already in Travis Henry) and left Larry Johnson on the board. As well as Eric Steinbach and Vincent Manuwai when guard was a huge need (and still is).

He drafted Roscoe Parrish with Justin Miller and Bryant McFadden on the board when we had just lost 3 defensive starters in Antoine Winfield, Pierson Prioleau and Pat Williams. Then he follows up that pick with Kevin Everett, the bust TE from the U.

What this is, though, is an indictement of DONAHOE, not the BAA philosophy.

Just because the guy isn't a good evaluator of talent doesn't mean that using the BAA philosophy is a bad idea.

FreeSafety36
01-04-2007, 01:12 PM
Your team is great at not resigning corners........is Clements leaving too?

God I hope not. He's the only starting caliber corner we have right now. Can't speak on Youboty, because he only played about half of one game this year. Terrence McGee, Kiwaukee Thomas and Jabari Greer are all servicable nickelbacks, but not one of them is starting material.

It's my hope we resign nate and draft either Fred Bennett from South Cackalack, Daymeion Hughes from Cal or Aaron Ross from Texas to at least compete for the #2 job. I think Nate is worth Champ Bailey money, and I know he'll get it (the Redskins will give it to him if nobody else will). I'm hoping we lock him up like 6 years 60 million with 20 guaranteed in his signing bonus.

FreeSafety36
01-04-2007, 01:16 PM
What this is, though, is an indictement of DONAHOE, not the BAA philosophy.

Just because the guy isn't a good evaluator of talent doesn't mean that using the BAA philosophy is a bad idea.

Talent evaluation in the draft is a crapshoot. That's why we have busts in the first round regardless of the team, and it's why a guy like marques Colston falls to the 7th round. I think Don'tknowhow was worse than most GM in his talent evaluation, but that's beside the point.

Surely, even with a bad eye for talent, if he had tried to address some needs in his tenure, he would have hit on some, instead of his miss-and-miss method.

htismaqe
01-04-2007, 02:20 PM
Talent evaluation in the draft is a crapshoot. That's why we have busts in the first round regardless of the team, and it's why a guy like marques Colston falls to the 7th round. I think Don'tknowhow was worse than most GM in his talent evaluation, but that's beside the point.

Surely, even with a bad eye for talent, if he had tried to address some needs in his tenure, he would have hit on some, instead of his miss-and-miss method.

I strongly disagree. One needs to look no further than the Chiefs to see that's untrue.

Need draft picks:
Ryan Sims - bust
Junior Siavii - bust
Julian Battle - bust
Eric Downing - bust
Snoop Minnis - bust

I could go on, but I think you get the picture. Furthermore, only 1 of those guys is stil on the team and the only reason he is is because his #6 pick salary prevents him from being cut.

On the other hand, we have some BAA draft picks:
Dustin Colquitt
Bernard Pollard
Derrick Johnson
Larry Johnson

Starting to see a trend there?

Sam Hall
01-05-2007, 01:26 AM
I posted Mel Kiper's latest Top 25 Big Board in the draft forum. I am surprised at how high he had certain players discussed in this thread.

FreeSafety36
01-05-2007, 09:17 AM
I strongly disagree. One needs to look no further than the Chiefs to see that's untrue.

Need draft picks:
Ryan Sims - bust
Junior Siavii - bust
Julian Battle - bust
Eric Downing - bust
Snoop Minnis - bust

I could go on, but I think you get the picture. Furthermore, only 1 of those guys is stil on the team and the only reason he is is because his #6 pick salary prevents him from being cut.

On the other hand, we have some BAA draft picks:
Dustin Colquitt
Bernard Pollard
Derrick Johnson
Larry Johnson

Starting to see a trend there?

I don't really see that as an indictment of one philospophy or proof that another works. The only way I could see proof of bpa philosophy working is say 'we drafted for need here, got a good player and didn't improve our team, rather than when we drafted bpa here, got a good player, and did improve'.

By saying that all your need picks were busts, it doesn't really say anything about that philosophy. Maybe it could be said that because it was a need, the organization reached for that player. I don't agree with doing that.

As far as Derrick Johnson goes, I think most everyone had the Chiefs picking him that year. I know I did. He was probably the best player available, but he also filled a need.

It's like the Cardinals right now. Bad team, historically bad franchise. When their pick comes up in this upcoming draft, I don't see any way they could justify taking a WR, RB or QB regardless of whether they're the best player available or not. That team has far too many holes to not address by taking a player that doesn't fill a need.

Now, if we're talking about a team that doesn't have any glaring weaknesses, I'm all for taking the best player on the board, regardless of position. But how much could the Chiefs improve if when they come up Michael Bush is the best player on the board and they draft him?

My draft board starts out with team needs listed in order of greatest to smallest. I then go through each prospect at that position and give those guys a grade. Grades based on measurables (40 times, bench reps, shuttle times, etc.), production at the college level, character, and things of that nature.

Now say I have DT as need #1 and LB as need #5. When I come up to pick in the first round, the best DT on the board is a guy I have graded a low second round grade, and the best LB on the board is a guy I have with a mid first round grade. I won't reach for the DT, but rather I'll take the guy with the higher grade that still fills need, albeit a lesser need. I have to believe I can get a DT more worth his value with a later pick than reaching for a guy who I don't believe is worth that pick. Now when I make that pick, the best available player may be a WR, but if WR is my #11 need I feel that's a wasted opportunity.

But it's cool, everyone has a different opinion on how to run their draft and what players to pick.

Chiefnj
01-05-2007, 09:24 AM
I strongly disagree. One needs to look no further than the Chiefs to see that's untrue.

Need draft picks:
Ryan Sims - bust
Junior Siavii - bust
Julian Battle - bust
Eric Downing - bust
Snoop Minnis - bust

I could go on, but I think you get the picture. Furthermore, only 1 of those guys is stil on the team and the only reason he is is because his #6 pick salary prevents him from being cut.

On the other hand, we have some BAA draft picks:
Dustin Colquitt
Bernard Pollard
Derrick Johnson
Larry Johnson

Starting to see a trend there?

I don't think Sims was necessarily a need pick only. He was a highly rated player. I don't think Battle was a need pick either. He was an excellent athlete that put up excellent workout numbers. I don't know what the hell the Chiefs were thinking with Downing or Siavii. Minnis I can make an argument that he was a playmaker in college and Vermeil/Saunders wanted smaller quick recievers. Plus, he was a mid-3rd round pick. Snoop was also smart enough to sit next to an Asian player during the wonderlic or there is no way he would have been able to even know where to sign his name on the test.

El Jefe
01-05-2007, 09:30 AM
Freesafety36, well said that was a good piece of literature and I have to agree with your philosophy. I hate seeing teams reach, no way Herm drafts RB in the early rounds.

El Jefe
01-05-2007, 09:49 AM
Mecca, I agree with you on Leon Hall, I love OSU and watch a lot of Big 10 games. Hall couldnt cover Ginn or Jarret, or Smardjiza, and to be the best you have to cover the best at CB. I see him being an ok CB.

boogblaster
01-05-2007, 10:04 AM
Who is that big DT at Auburn he looks good too me...

FreeSafety36
01-05-2007, 11:25 AM
Who is that big DT at Auburn he looks good too me...

I don't know who you're talking about. Auburn doesn't have a single senior on the depth chart at DT, and no juniors expected to declare for the draft. Junior college transfer Greg Smith (junior class) (6'2" 325 lbs) is the only big DT on the roster.

At this point, the depth chart has Junior Josh Thompson starting at NT and Freshman Sen'Derrick Marks at 3 technique. Behind those 2 guys are 2 juniors, a sophomore and 3 freshmen.

The most highly touted player on that D line is junior defensive end Quentin Groves. Haven't heard anything about Groves declaring. The Tigers do have 2 very highly touted guards coming out in Ben Grubbs and Tim Duckworth. Other seniors from Auburn in this draft are Kenny Irons (RB), David Irons (CB), Will Herring (LB), Courtney Taylor (WR) and Karibi Dede (LB).

You sure it's Auburn you're thinking about?

htismaqe
01-05-2007, 11:50 AM
I don't really see that as an indictment of one philospophy or proof that another works. The only way I could see proof of bpa philosophy working is say 'we drafted for need here, got a good player and didn't improve our team, rather than when we drafted bpa here, got a good player, and did improve'.

By saying that all your need picks were busts, it doesn't really say anything about that philosophy. Maybe it could be said that because it was a need, the organization reached for that player. I don't agree with doing that.

As far as Derrick Johnson goes, I think most everyone had the Chiefs picking him that year. I know I did. He was probably the best player available, but he also filled a need.

It's like the Cardinals right now. Bad team, historically bad franchise. When their pick comes up in this upcoming draft, I don't see any way they could justify taking a WR, RB or QB regardless of whether they're the best player available or not. That team has far too many holes to not address by taking a player that doesn't fill a need.

Now, if we're talking about a team that doesn't have any glaring weaknesses, I'm all for taking the best player on the board, regardless of position. But how much could the Chiefs improve if when they come up Michael Bush is the best player on the board and they draft him?

My draft board starts out with team needs listed in order of greatest to smallest. I then go through each prospect at that position and give those guys a grade. Grades based on measurables (40 times, bench reps, shuttle times, etc.), production at the college level, character, and things of that nature.

Now say I have DT as need #1 and LB as need #5. When I come up to pick in the first round, the best DT on the board is a guy I have graded a low second round grade, and the best LB on the board is a guy I have with a mid first round grade. I won't reach for the DT, but rather I'll take the guy with the higher grade that still fills need, albeit a lesser need. I have to believe I can get a DT more worth his value with a later pick than reaching for a guy who I don't believe is worth that pick. Now when I make that pick, the best available player may be a WR, but if WR is my #11 need I feel that's a wasted opportunity.

But it's cool, everyone has a different opinion on how to run their draft and what players to pick.

Sorry. I think we have a confusion here on what each of us considers "drafting for need".

IMO, drafting for need IMPLIES reaching for a specific position when better players are available. They're not separable, at least in my mind.

Drafting the best available player may, coincidentally, fill a need, but he's still the best available player.

FreeSafety36
01-05-2007, 12:27 PM
But what if every year for 6 consecutive years the best player available when you pick in the first round is a QB? Do you draft him every year?

If you're the Jaguars with John Henderson and Marcus Stroud at DTs, and the best available player when you pick in the first round is Quinn Pitcock. Do you draft him? Then what happens if you get to your second round pick and the best available player is DeMarcus Tyler? Do you draft him as well? Then when your draft is over, you have the same hole at WR you had going in, and you have 4 starting caliber DTs that can't have the kind of impact they should, because you can't get them all on the field.

When I consider what a need is, I don't say I have this player under contract for another year at that position so it isn't a need. I take into consideration how much longer the starter is signed for, his age, his production, and his back-ups. There's always the chance he can be injured. A good example is the Dolphins at MLB. Zack Thomas is still producing. He will be 34 years old by the start of next season. On the depth chart behind him are Keith Adams and Robert McCune. So in my opinion, MLB is more of a need than a lot of people might think. Their secondary and offensive lines are garbage, but that doesn't mean they need to reach and draft a CB, S or OL when there may be their future starting MLB staring them in the face. Say they want a CB as their #1 need. The top 3 guys are off the board (Hall, Revis, McCauley) and they go after a solid player in Daymeion Hughes with Posluzsny on the board at the time as well. Nothing wrong with Hughes, but the gap between he and a guy you could get in the second round, like Fred Bennett, is not nearly as large as the gap between Pos and say Anthony Waters.

Let's say at the same time, Tedd Ginn is considered the best player on the board. With Chambers, Booker, Hagan and Welker, Ginn won't be as much of an upgrade over Booker as Pos would be over Keith Adams.

To me, drafting for need doesn't mean you take the highest rated player that plays the position that you have listed as your biggest need. It has to do with the depth of each position in the draft. For example, this is shaping up to be a pretty weak draft for RBs. The Jets need a RB, but they don't need to reach for say Antonio Pittman in the first, just because he's there and happens to play RB. Maybe they say between Pittman, Chris henry and Tony Hunt, we feel we can get pretty equal value from all 3 and one can be had in the 3rd round. Then that allows them to move to their next need, evaluate the talent there and decide if they use that pick there, or move on to the next, and the next, etc.

Mecca
01-05-2007, 01:23 PM
With QB, no you don't draft that every year. But with Dlineman yea I would. Seeing as none of them play every down and they rotate....you can never have to many good lineman.

htismaqe
01-05-2007, 01:47 PM
With QB, no you don't draft that every year. But with Dlineman yea I would. Seeing as none of them play every down and they rotate....you can never have to many good lineman.

Exactly.

FreeSafety36
01-06-2007, 09:17 AM
With QB, no you don't draft that every year. But with Dlineman yea I would. Seeing as none of them play every down and they rotate....you can never have to many good lineman.

Nothing wrong with drafting d linemen every year, for the reason you mentioned. Just don't draft them in the first couple of rounds every year. Good DTs, especially rotational guys, can be had in the second day.

Frankie
01-06-2007, 01:52 PM
Nothing wrong with drafting d linemen every year, for the reason you mentioned. Just don't draft them in the first couple of rounds every year. Good DTs, especially rotational guys, can be had in the second day.
Yep. But try to get your main DTs in the first day. Once you have one or two reliable DTs in, then I would draft at least one a year for a while, in the second day.

FreeSafety36
01-06-2007, 01:54 PM
My scenario about the DTs was with Jacksonville where they already have John Henderson and Marcus Stroud.

Most teams do pick up OL and DL depth nearly every year in the second day of the draft.

Sam Hall
01-06-2007, 02:02 PM
Right now my guess is DeMarcus Tyler.

Frankie
01-06-2007, 02:06 PM
Right now my guess is DeMarcus Tyler.
I would love that at the position we pick. I hope he will be available. He's my number 2 DT on the board. I looove to get Okoye though. That's an exclusive Chiefs player name anyway.

Sam Hall
01-06-2007, 02:11 PM
I would love that at the position we pick. I hope he will be available. He's my number 2 DT on the board. I looove to get Okoye though. That's an exclusive Chiefs player name anyway.

It seems like Tyler will be available, based on the mocks I've seen. It also seems like a lot of the guys on our wish list won't be there. I've seen a mock that had Okoye going in the top 10.

Sam Hall
01-06-2007, 05:34 PM
Right now my guess is DeMarcus Tyler.

Wrong, try offensive lineman :mad:

Tribal Warfare
01-07-2007, 01:57 AM
OT Levi Brown or DT Amobi Okoye

Priest4Prez
01-07-2007, 10:55 AM
Lang is our best pick. He is a younger Willie Roaf, and could occupy guys like Dwight Freeny. Something Black couldn't do last nite.

Mecca
01-07-2007, 11:50 AM
Lang is our best pick. He is a younger Willie Roaf, and could occupy guys like Dwight Freeny. Something Black couldn't do last nite.

Could you atleast get the guys name right.....and Jake LONG already said he isn't coming out.

We're probably going to have to deal with a bad LT for another year, this isn't the year to be picking one.....not at 24 anyway.

Brock
01-07-2007, 11:51 AM
If you have a shot at Dwayne Jarrett, I think that's what you pick. But a good DT or MLB would be all right as well.

Basileus777
01-07-2007, 12:02 PM
This draft is very top heavy and there isn't going to be alot of value at DT, OT, or WR at 24. I think we would be better off trading down if we don't have a shot at one of the premier receivers. I'd rather take someone like Meachem in the 2nd than reach for someone in the first.

Mecca
01-07-2007, 12:06 PM
This draft is very top heavy and there isn't going to be alot of value at DT, OT, or WR at 24. I think we would be better off trading down if we don't have a shot at one of the premier receivers. I'd rather take someone like Meachem in the 2nd than reach for someone in the first.

Start hoping guys come out.........Russell/Ginn and the like will all go before we pick and push other guys down.

htismaqe
01-07-2007, 12:08 PM
At 24, it's unlikely that we can get a top DT or OT, but it's highly LIKELY that we can get a top WR or MLB at that spot.

I'm on the MLB bandwagon.

Mecca
01-07-2007, 12:12 PM
At 24, it's unlikely that we can get a top DT or OT, but it's highly LIKELY that we can get a top WR or MLB at that spot.

I'm on the MLB bandwagon.

Well Pat Willis is the only one and he's very highly thought of.....possibly going before we pick.

Basileus777
01-07-2007, 12:13 PM
Well Pat Willis is the only one and he's very highly thought of.....possibly going before we pick.

Could Poz play MLB in the tampa 2?

Mecca
01-07-2007, 12:15 PM
Could Poz play MLB in the tampa 2?

I don't think he has the speed in general to play in our defense.......he's a hustle guy and our defense requires alot of LB speed.

Brock
01-07-2007, 12:17 PM
Well Pat Willis is the only one and he's very highly thought of.....possibly going before we pick.

Blades is another.

Basileus777
01-07-2007, 12:20 PM
Blades is another.

He probably fits our defense even less than Pos. Blades doesn't have great speed and is poor in coverage.

Mecca
01-07-2007, 12:23 PM
Unfortunately none of the USC guys are out this year....they basically play the same defense we do.

Rey Mauluga would be a beast here.

Brock
01-07-2007, 12:28 PM
He probably fits our defense even less than Pos. Blades doesn't have great speed and is poor in coverage.

I wouldn't know. I've never seen him play.

Hydrae
01-07-2007, 12:45 PM
I want to change my vote from DT to LT after seeing that travesty yesterday.

Priest4Prez
01-07-2007, 05:12 PM
I want to change my vote from DT to LT after seeing that travesty yesterday.
Amen. I have a feeling 'Long" will come out. There is a lot of time till april.

Simplex3
01-07-2007, 05:21 PM
Where's the option for a new GM?

Sam Hall
01-07-2007, 07:06 PM
WR Sidney Rice declared today. While he was only a redshirt sophomore, he seemed like a playmaker. He's been available after the 24th pick in every mock I've seen.

Priest4Prez
01-07-2007, 09:02 PM
WR Sidney Rice declared today. While he was only a redshirt sophomore, he seemed like a playmaker. He's been available after the 24th pick in every mock I've seen.
We could pick him up, but I am not sure he is the answer.