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Oz_Chief
01-07-2007, 10:59 PM
...but Solari stays.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/16406684.htm

By Adam Teicher

McClatchy Newspapers

(MCT)

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - One day after a pathetic performance bounced his team from the playoffs, Herm Edwards promised offensive changes for the Chiefs in 2007.

Edwards said he couldn't be specific about many of the changes because they are still to be decided. But he indicated they would probably include a different scheme_and maybe a new starting quarterback.

They won't include a new coordinator. Edwards said Mike Solari would continue in that job no matter what type of offense the Chiefs use.

Edwards also said defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham and the rest of his assistant coaches would be welcome to return next season.

Edwards has contemplated changes through the course of a bumpy offensive season. Saturday's 23-8 loss to the Colts in a first-round playoff game in Indianapolis helped drive home the point.

The Chiefs had 126 yards and failed to get a first down until their eighth possession.

"We didn't handle their speed real well," Edwards said.

"We have to take a hard look at ourselves. You have to be realistic and ask yourself if we're really capable of (successfully running their current system). I want to make sure of one thing: Whatever type of system we run, young players have to be able to play. They can't wait a year or two to get on the field. I don't want to be in a situation where young guys who have some talent can't play because the system is too complex.

"There are some things we do very well. There are things we can do even better. That's what I'm talking about here: How do we do these things better? It's not a laundry list of things. These are just things that allow us to get the football to the right players."

Edwards said the Chiefs would keep their power running game centered on Larry Johnson and a play-action passing game. But they will simplify by cutting back on the number of plays and their complexities.

Those changes would be aimed toward making things easier for younger players. Edwards wouldn't identify those players he would like to play more next season, but he may have been talking about rookie wide receivers Jeff Webb and Chris Hannon and perhaps even rookie quarterback Brodie Croyle.

"I just know it has to be player-friendly," Edwards said. "It has to be something that young players at all positions can play. I want to give the quarterback even more ability to change some things at the line of scrimmage. I want him to have the ability to get to anything we have right now.

Edwards wouldn't address the issue of whether Trent Green would return as the starting quarterback. Green's play dropped off significantly this season after he missed eight games because of a concussion.

"That's not even something we're discussing right now," Edwards said. "There are a whole lot of other things we have to do as far as the program before we start worrying about player situations. That's second on the agenda."

But his refusal to back Green, who will turn 37 next summer, speaks loudly. The conservative Edwards believes in ball control above all. Green committed three turnovers in the final regular-season game against Jacksonville and three more in the loss to the Colts.

He had no such hesitation about supporting Solari, a career offensive-line coach until promoted to coordinator by Edwards this season.

"I told Mike today that he did a good job for his first year," Edwards said. "That's a tough seat he's sitting in. A lot of the things that happened to us - losing some players, losing the quarterback_affected him. He had never called an offensive play. That's hard. He will be so much better next year. It won't even be close.

"Mike's the guy. He's going to be a heck of an offensive coordinator. Next year will be a lot different for him. I was so much better my second year as a head coach. He'll gain more confidence. He knows me better now. Mike had to learn the passing game. You don't learn that in a year unless you're a coordinator. He was an offensive-line coach. That's something he had to go through."

Edwards also said he was pleased with how he and Cunningham worked together.

"We think a whole lot alike as far as the things we want to get done," he said. "I know people think he's blitz-crazy, but he's really not. He's got to do what the players allow him to do."

Demonpenz
01-07-2007, 11:01 PM
changes to the offense? Like what? Passing the ball?

penguinz
01-07-2007, 11:04 PM
Simplifying the offense is good idea. One reason we are so old on O is that it is too complex for players to pick up quickly.

Coach
01-07-2007, 11:04 PM
How about changing the Head Coach? Or how about changing the General Manager?

Halfcan
01-07-2007, 11:04 PM
Cut down on the number of plays???

Instead of Run right, left, then middle-we go to run it up the middle every time.


Herm told Mike he did a nice job?? Herm is a stoopid Mother Fugger!!! Solari was by far the worst in the NFL.

Halfcan
01-07-2007, 11:06 PM
Herm is quickly becoming the most hated Coach in Chiefs history. I can't wait til we get rid of this fugnut.

Boyceofsummer
01-07-2007, 11:07 PM
when Huard played. But I digress.

petegz28
01-07-2007, 11:07 PM
I heard 1 thing I liked. Give the QB more room to check off the play. This goes back to Saunders and that system. The QB is very limited in what he can audbile and when.

D2112
01-07-2007, 11:08 PM
I remember hearing this before..

Halfcan
01-07-2007, 11:11 PM
Tell the Jets we will give them our whole draft if they take Herm, Carl, and Solari.

We would instantly be a better team.

BWillie
01-07-2007, 11:12 PM
I say we have Trent Retire. Make him Offensive Coordinator. Trent really couldn't do anything he wanted to do on offense. He made all of those plays when he was hurt and not a one of them used. Bring up Brodie, and let him chuck it.

penguinz
01-07-2007, 11:14 PM
I say we have Trent Retire. Make him Offensive Coordinator. Trent really couldn't do anything he wanted to do on offense. He made all of those plays when he was hurt and not a one of them used. Bring up Brodie, and let him chuck it.The guy plays like he is still hearing bells ringing in his head and you want to use plays he wrote up just 2 weeks after the concussion?
:shake:

BIG K
01-07-2007, 11:16 PM
...but Solari stays.

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/16406684.htm

By Adam Teicher

McClatchy Newspapers

(MCT)

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - One day after a pathetic performance bounced his team from the playoffs, Herm Edwards promised offensive changes for the Chiefs in 2007.

Edwards said he couldn't be specific about many of the changes because they are still to be decided. But he indicated they would probably include a different scheme_and maybe a new starting quarterback.

They won't include a new coordinator. Edwards said Mike Solari would continue in that job no matter what type of offense the Chiefs use.

Edwards also said defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham and the rest of his assistant coaches would be welcome to return next season.

Edwards has contemplated changes through the course of a bumpy offensive season. Saturday's 23-8 loss to the Colts in a first-round playoff game in Indianapolis helped drive home the point.

The Chiefs had 126 yards and failed to get a first down until their eighth possession.

"We didn't handle their speed real well," Edwards said.

"We have to take a hard look at ourselves. You have to be realistic and ask yourself if we're really capable of (successfully running their current system). I want to make sure of one thing: Whatever type of system we run, young players have to be able to play. They can't wait a year or two to get on the field. I don't want to be in a situation where young guys who have some talent can't play because the system is too complex.

"There are some things we do very well. There are things we can do even better. That's what I'm talking about here: How do we do these things better? It's not a laundry list of things. These are just things that allow us to get the football to the right players."

Edwards said the Chiefs would keep their power running game centered on Larry Johnson and a play-action passing game. But they will simplify by cutting back on the number of plays and their complexities.

Those changes would be aimed toward making things easier for younger players. Edwards wouldn't identify those players he would like to play more next season, but he may have been talking about rookie wide receivers Jeff Webb and Chris Hannon and perhaps even rookie quarterback Brodie Croyle.

"I just know it has to be player-friendly," Edwards said. "It has to be something that young players at all positions can play. I want to give the quarterback even more ability to change some things at the line of scrimmage. I want him to have the ability to get to anything we have right now.

Edwards wouldn't address the issue of whether Trent Green would return as the starting quarterback. Green's play dropped off significantly this season after he missed eight games because of a concussion.

"That's not even something we're discussing right now," Edwards said. "There are a whole lot of other things we have to do as far as the program before we start worrying about player situations. That's second on the agenda."

But his refusal to back Green, who will turn 37 next summer, speaks loudly. The conservative Edwards believes in ball control above all. Green committed three turnovers in the final regular-season game against Jacksonville and three more in the loss to the Colts.

He had no such hesitation about supporting Solari, a career offensive-line coach until promoted to coordinator by Edwards this season.

"I told Mike today that he did a good job for his first year," Edwards said. "That's a tough seat he's sitting in. A lot of the things that happened to us - losing some players, losing the quarterback_affected him. He had never called an offensive play. That's hard. He will be so much better next year. It won't even be close.

"Mike's the guy. He's going to be a heck of an offensive coordinator. Next year will be a lot different for him. I was so much better my second year as a head coach. He'll gain more confidence. He knows me better now. Mike had to learn the passing game. You don't learn that in a year unless you're a coordinator. He was an offensive-line coach. That's something he had to go through."

Edwards also said he was pleased with how he and Cunningham worked together.

"We think a whole lot alike as far as the things we want to get done," he said. "I know people think he's blitz-crazy, but he's really not. He's got to do what the players allow him to do."

How the **** do you simplify run left, run right and pass on 3rd down? Jesus, how much more can Edwards simplify his game plan? He has the most predictable playbook in town, now he wants to make it easier? **** renewing my Sunday Ticket! I would rather staple my own foreskin to my forehead than watch another game directed by this idiot....

C-Mac
01-07-2007, 11:17 PM
changes to the offense? Like what? Passing the ball?

Maybe trying quick routes and quick passes.....it only works when they actually do it.

:banghead:

D2112
01-07-2007, 11:17 PM
Tell the Jets we will give them our whole draft if they take Herm, Carl, and Solari.

We would instantly be a better team.
The feeling of not having hope had been killing me for 5 years after watching and hearing this shit..the man is a fraud.

penguinz
01-07-2007, 11:18 PM
Tell the Jets we will give them our whole draft if they take Herm, Carl, and Solari.

We would instantly be a better team.Can we give you to the Jets BB so we can instantly become a better community?

milkman
01-07-2007, 11:21 PM
How the **** do you simplify run left, run right and pass on 3rd down? Jesus, how much more can Edwards simplify his game plan? He has the most predictable playbook in town, now he wants to make it easier? **** renewing my Sunday Ticket! I would rather staple my own foreskin to my forehead than watch another game directed by this idiot....

LMAO

No shit!

Halfcan
01-07-2007, 11:23 PM
The feeling of not having hope had been killing me for 5 years after watching and hearing this shit..the man is a fraud.

His press conferences give me a headache. I hated him with the Jets-the day we traded for him my friend called up and was laughing. I thought he was joking. Unfortunately the joke was on the loyal Chiefs fans. We have ZERO hope for next year.

milkman
01-07-2007, 11:23 PM
Can we give you to the Jets BB so we can instantly become a better community?

What the hell are you talking about?

HalfWit's idea is the best idea I've seen all day.

I'm all for it.

wilas101
01-07-2007, 11:24 PM
The guy plays like he is still hearing bells ringing in his head and you want to use plays he wrote up just 2 weeks after the concussion?
:shake:


roflmao

That's funny

Halfcan
01-07-2007, 11:24 PM
Can we give you to the Jets BB so we can instantly become a better community?

How about we put a Bush mask on you and give you to Iraq instead.

Skip Towne
01-07-2007, 11:25 PM
His press conferences give me a headache. I hated him with the Jets-the day we traded for him my friend called up and was laughing. I thought he was joking. Unfortunately the joke was on the loyal Chiefs fans. We have ZERO hope for next year.
Hide all sharp objects.

D2112
01-07-2007, 11:25 PM
His press conferences give me a headache. I hated him with the Jets-the day we traded for him my friend called up and was laughing. I thought he was joking. Unfortunately the joke was on the loyal Chiefs fans. We have ZERO hope for next year.
The problem is Peterson...he has to be shit canned...he's drinking the Hermy Kool-aid just like Bradway did..

Halfcan
01-07-2007, 11:25 PM
What the hell are you talking about?

HalfWit's idea is the best idea I've seen all day.

I'm all for it.

Even better than trading Gonzo and a #1 for Benchwarmer Porter??

Halfcan
01-07-2007, 11:27 PM
Hide all sharp objects.

And I have not even watched the Colts game yet. :)

milkman
01-07-2007, 11:28 PM
Even better than trading Gonzo and a #1 for Benchwarmer Porter??

Uh...no, I take it all back.

:banghead:

petegz28
01-07-2007, 11:28 PM
Even better than trading Gonzo and a #1 for Benchwarmer Porter??


Now I didn't say trade a #1 I said a draft pick

Skip Towne
01-07-2007, 11:30 PM
Maybe trying quick routes and quick passes.....it only works when they actually do it.

:banghead:
Wouldn't that be considered an adjustment? Herm doesn't do adjustments. He just stands there on the sideline looking like he doesn't know where he is.

Halfcan
01-07-2007, 11:31 PM
Now I didn't say trade a #1 I said a draft pick

ROFL sorry to misqoute you.

Zouk
01-07-2007, 11:31 PM
The feeling of not having hope had been killing me for 5 years after watching and hearing this shit..the man is a fraud.


You're big on style points I see.

Herm had your team a kick away from the AFC title game, but you're happier with a 21 point Wild Card loss as long as you get a lot of flashy pre-snap motion and disguised blitzes designed to make the coaches look like geniuses.

(Don't even mention that your talent was much better then, because in 2004 Pennington was playing in the playoffs with a torn rotator cuff, and Herm was starting Mark Brown and Reggie Tongue on D)

It'll all come down to who's playing deep in January the next few years - Mangini or Herm. That's all that will decide who's better - not how they talk in press conferences, not who calls more passes - just who wins. We'll see.

I would trade you a 1st day draft pick for Westhoff though - that's the guy we really need.

Halfcan
01-07-2007, 11:32 PM
Wouldn't that be considered an adjustment? Herm doesn't do adjustments. He just stands there on the sideline looking like he doesn't know where he is.

Yep the deer in the headlights pic was classic.

D2112
01-07-2007, 11:34 PM
You're big on style points I see.

Herm had your team a kick away from the AFC title game, but you're happier with a 21 point Wild Card loss as long as you get a lot of flashy pre-snap motion and disguised blitzes designed to make the coaches look like geniuses.

(Don't even mention that your talent was much better then, because in 2004 Pennington was playing in the playoffs with a torn rotator cuff, and Herm was starting Mark Brown and Reggie Tongue on D)

It'll all come down to who's playing deep in January the next few years - Mangini or Herm. That's all that will decide who's better - not how they talk in press conferences, not who calls more passes - just who wins. We'll see.

I would trade you a 1st day draft pick for Westhoff though - that's the guy we really need.
Are you my ****ing stalker??

The more you post..the more clueless you look..the Jets would be at least 7-9 with hermy, probably worse..you need to watch more Jet games and get over your stats..you were probably waving your Herm POM-POMS on saturday..right??

BigRock
01-07-2007, 11:36 PM
Edwards said he couldn't be specific about many of the changes because they are still to be decided. But he indicated they would probably include a different scheme_and maybe a new starting quarterback.
I love how Teicher created a QB issue out of thin air. Good God, the KC media is a joke.

D2112
01-07-2007, 11:36 PM
You're big on style points I see.

Herm had your team a kick away from the AFC title game, but you're happier with a 21 point Wild Card loss as long as you get a lot of flashy pre-snap motion and disguised blitzes designed to make the coaches look like geniuses.

(Don't even mention that your talent was much better then, because in 2004 Pennington was playing in the playoffs with a torn rotator cuff, and Herm was starting Mark Brown and Reggie Tongue on D)

It'll all come down to who's playing deep in January the next few years - Mangini or Herm. That's all that will decide who's better - not how they talk in press conferences, not who calls more passes - just who wins. We'll see.

I would trade you a 1st day draft pick for Westhoff though - that's the guy we really need.
A kick away??we had 2 td's from an int and punt return against the steelers..we scored 17 points..sound familiar??we should have blown them out..like the patriots did..

Carlota69
01-07-2007, 11:37 PM
I can't believe a word this jerknut is saying. Herm said in his first press conference when he was hired, that he wasn't going to change the offense. Ah, i dont know about you, but it looks alot different to me, and the players back that up.

So now I'm supposed to believe he's going to make positive changes?

I'm sure Herm is a good guy and all, but **** him.

Here's to another frustrating season of Chiefs football
:shake:

milkman
01-07-2007, 11:37 PM
..you were probably waving your Herm POM-POMS on saturday..right??

You should know better.

Herm POM-POMS never get off the ground.

RedThat
01-07-2007, 11:38 PM
how about changing the General Manager?

I like that idea.

Zouk
01-07-2007, 11:38 PM
A kick away??we had 2 td's from an int and punt return against the steelers..we scored 17 points..sound familiar??we should have blown them out..like the patriots did..


Sorry man, don't mean to stalk. I just get sensitive when I see Jets fans try to turn Chiefs fans off Herm.

I'll give it a rest for a while. Season's over.

Chiefs Pantalones
01-07-2007, 11:39 PM
OMG, this guy is an idiot!

He is a terrible coach, he reminds me of Gun when he was head coach. He really has no vision for this team, there is no identity. He said the system would change even with the same coordinator? How is that possible? Solari only knows the Coryell system. Does he want this team to have any identity at all? He's a playstation head coach. Anybody can run put on a head set and run the ball 50 times a game. I do that with LJ and it does me good, but the problem is Hermy, this is real life.

I'm sorry, but the guy sounds like he doesn't have a clue.

D2112
01-07-2007, 11:40 PM
Sorry man, don't mean to stalk. I just get sensitive when I see Jets fans try to turn Chiefs fans off Herm.

I'll give it a rest for a while. Season's over.
:thumb: thank you!!

milkman
01-07-2007, 11:40 PM
Sorry man, don't mean to stalk. I just get sensitive when I see Jets fans try to turn Chiefs fans off Herm.

I'll give it a rest for a while. Season's over.

He doesn't have to try, Herman ****ing Edwards can manage that all by his lonesome, thank you.

CoMoChief
01-07-2007, 11:41 PM
The guy plays like he is still hearing bells ringing in his head and you want to use plays he wrote up just 2 weeks after the concussion?
:shake:


Trent knows this offense better than anyone on this team, including coaches. Why he was never allowed to change plays at the line like Manning I have not the wildest clue.

He needs to become an offensive coordinator IMO. I dont think it will happen though because I bet the guy has a TV deal for NFL network or something like that when he hangs them up.

Chiefs Pantalones
01-07-2007, 11:42 PM
And he even said he's never really wanted to be a head coach. Why the **** would someone wanna hire a guy like that?

Halfcan
01-07-2007, 11:42 PM
Sorry man, don't mean to stalk. I just get sensitive when I see Jets fans try to turn Chiefs fans off Herm.

I'll give it a rest for a while. Season's over.

Yep Chiefs fans hate Herm because of Bill. ROFL Damm Bill your Mojo is powerful.

Skip Towne
01-07-2007, 11:43 PM
Sorry man, don't mean to stalk. I just get sensitive when I see Jets fans try to turn Chiefs fans off Herm.

I'll give it a rest for a while. Season's over.
He didn't turn us off Herm. We got to see Herm's act for ourselves. At the time, the Colts had 22 first downs and we had none. What did Herm do about it? Nothing. Ya want him back?

D2112
01-07-2007, 11:45 PM
Yep Chiefs fans hate Herm because of Bill. ROFL Damm Bill your Mojo is powerful.
He's a nOOb..he don't know me..I usually avoid the Herm threads..but after watching saturdays game..I can't control myself..heh..sorry..old habits die hard..heh..

Chiefs Pantalones
01-07-2007, 11:46 PM
I bet some where in this country Herm owns a Bed n' Breakfast.

milkman
01-07-2007, 11:48 PM
He's a nOOb..he don't know me..I usually avoid the Herm threads..but after watching saturdays game..I can't control myself..heh..sorry..old habits die hard..heh..

I always get a kick out of n00bs calling others n00bs.

Even the good n00bs like you Bill.

RedThat
01-07-2007, 11:49 PM
The problem is Peterson...he has to be shit canned...he's drinking the Hermy Kool-aid just like Bradway did..

I agree. He did the exact same thing when Vermeil was here. Peterson is the kinda GM that'll ride the pines of the coaches.

Every coach we had from Marty, Vermeil, to Herm...Each one of those coaches had specialized on 1 side of the ball, and was lackluster on the other. Peterson of course rode the pine, and didn't support ANY of these coaches for their lack of knowledge on 1 side of the ball. As a result, were always dominating on 1 side of the ball, crap on the other.

Ever notice that with the Chiefs? They either have a good defense or a good offense. It's one or the other. That's why we always been mediocre. It's not a coincedence. It's an imcompetent GM riding the pine of the coaches. And not being able to take control of the team and properly and throughly build it the way a competent GM would.

*But I think its also the organization for being stupid enough to keep him here. Why keep a GM who consistently builds mediocre teams? It tells you something about this organization as a whole in general.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-07-2007, 11:50 PM
He's a nOOb..he don't know me..I usually avoid the Herm threads..but after watching saturdays game..I can't control myself..heh..sorry..old habits die hard..heh..

Parcells should be viewed by us as the Obi Wan Kenobi of Jets fans. He's shown us the future, it's our own damned fault if we don't want to see what he's shown us.

Coach
01-07-2007, 11:51 PM
I always get a kick out of n00bs calling others n00bs.

Even the good n00bs like you Bill.

Hopefully you'll be changing the location "Leading the Marty Bashing" to "Leading the Herm/Carl bashing"

milkman
01-07-2007, 11:52 PM
Ever notice that with the Chiefs? They either have a good defense or a good offense. It's one or the other.

No.
You're the first one to notice.

Chiefs Pantalones
01-07-2007, 11:53 PM
We need a thorough house cleaning. New GMs, new coaches, new everything.

Why must our team always be terrible?

milkman
01-07-2007, 11:54 PM
Hopefully you'll be changing the location "Leading the Marty Bashing" to "Leading the Herm/Carl bashing"

I gotta change that.

How about "The HermaNation of Mediocrity"?

D2112
01-07-2007, 11:55 PM
I agree. He did the exact same thing when Vermeil was here. Peterson is the kinda GM that'll ride the pines of the coaches.

Every coach we had from Marty, Vermeil, to Herm...Each one of those coaches had specialized on 1 side of the ball, and was lackluster on the other. Peterson of course rode the pine, and didn't support ANY of these coaches for their lack of knowledge on 1 side of the ball. As a result, were always dominating on 1 side of the ball, crap on the other.

Ever notice that with the Chiefs? They either have a good defense or a good offense. It's one or the other. That's why we always been mediocre. It's not a coincedence. It's an imcompetent GM riding the pine of the coaches. And not being able to take control of the team and properly and throughly build it the way a competent GM would.

*But I think its also the organization for being stupid enough to keep him here. Why keep a GM who consistently builds mediocre teams? It tells you something about this organization as a whole in general.
It all starts at the top..Lamar was awesome..without him..there would be no AFC or NY Jets..but..there comes a time where you have to try and please the fans..it gets so ****ing frustrating..I went from Kotite to Parcells...and then from Parcells to Herm..thats how drastically you notice the difference in performance..HOPE was lost with me when Kotite and Herm were hired..it was regained with the hiring of Parcells and Mangini...

D2112
01-07-2007, 11:57 PM
I always get a kick out of n00bs calling others n00bs.

Even the good n00bs like you Bill.
LOL..Your the man Milk!!

RealSNR
01-08-2007, 12:02 AM
Parcells should be viewed by us as the Obi Wan Kenobi of Jets fans. He's shown us the future, it's our own damned fault if we don't want to see what he's shown us.Yeah, it's no good to be miserable in a playoff melt-down. You have to be miserable the entire season in order to be a true Chiefs fan

Coach
01-08-2007, 12:04 AM
I gotta change that.

How about "The HermaNation of Mediocrity"?

Nothing wrong with taking out the Coach, but I think we can fry the bigger fish.

I mean, gotta start at the top, and ultimately, that's Carl Peterson.

Sure-Oz
01-08-2007, 12:09 AM
I'll reserve for next year. I say trent atleast comes back 1 more year and def. fights for the top spot. Cause we have nothing but Croyle left and no way he is ready for next year to be the starter.

FringeNC
01-08-2007, 12:11 AM
Let me get this straight. We struggled because we were far too simple on offense, and the solution is to get even simpler?

btlook1
01-08-2007, 12:13 AM
I say we have Trent Retire. Make him Offensive Coordinator. Trent really couldn't do anything he wanted to do on offense. He made all of those plays when he was hurt and not a one of them used. Bring up Brodie, and let him chuck it.

Trent calling the plays can't be bad I'm sure he could do better than Solari! Sounds good to me! Let's do it!

Redcoats58
01-08-2007, 12:16 AM
Let me get this straight. We struggled because we were far too simple on offense, and the solution is to get even simpler?

Herm apparently thinks the whole KC fan base are simpletons.

Easy 6
01-08-2007, 12:17 AM
Let me get this straight. We struggled because we were far too simple on offense, and the solution is to get even simpler?

Yeah, it doesnt read well does it???

I think what he really means is that he wants a huge influx of young players for 07 & the only way he can do it is to simplify the system.

He said NOTHING about the situational playcalling, which of course is the real culprit.

Eric
01-08-2007, 12:20 AM
How the **** do you simplify run left, run right and pass on 3rd down? Jesus, how much more can Edwards simplify his game plan? He has the most predictable playbook in town, now he wants to make it easier? **** renewing my Sunday Ticket! I would rather staple my own foreskin to my forehead than watch another game directed by this idiot....

Refering to WR's and passing game.

FringeNC
01-08-2007, 12:27 AM
If this offense is so hard to learn, how was Martz able to take the Rams from about the worst offense in the league to the best his first year?

kcxiv
01-08-2007, 12:27 AM
Herm dont bother me yet. He did an ok job, he mad some choices that were questionable.

He needs to learn if you have a offense that can put up points, let them freaking do it.

Sure-Oz
01-08-2007, 12:27 AM
If this offense is so hard to learn, how was Martz able to take the Rams from about the worst offense in the league to the best his first year?
Didn't they trade for Faulk, have Bruce and drafted Holt?! 3 incredible talents!

ChiefsCountry
01-08-2007, 12:29 AM
Didn't they trade for Faulk, have Bruce and drafted Holt?! 3 incredible talents!

And Warner, plus had all-world Pace at LT.

doomy3
01-08-2007, 12:29 AM
If this offense is so hard to learn, how was Martz able to take the Rams from about the worst offense in the league to the best his first year?


he didn't have quite so much luck with the Lions though did he?

Maybe it had something to do with the players he had. Bruce, Holt, Faulk, etc...Not too bat of a nucleus to build that type of offense around in St. Louis

FringeNC
01-08-2007, 12:29 AM
Didn't they trade for Faulk, have Bruce and drafted Holt?! 3 incredible talents!

If Kurt Warner can immediately pick up the offense, why can't Brodie Croyle? Herm is so full of shit...

Easy 6
01-08-2007, 12:30 AM
Didn't they trade for Faulk, have Bruce and drafted Holt?! 3 incredible talents!

Throw in Orlando Pace & that IS a recipe for quick success

FringeNC
01-08-2007, 12:33 AM
Throw in Orlando Pace & that IS a recipe for quick success

Sure, they had talent, but that's not the issue. They had a lot of young players who didn't know the system.....yet immediately learned it and were able to execute it flawlessly...and Herm is telling us that's impossible...

doomy3
01-08-2007, 12:33 AM
If Kurt Warner can immediately pick up the offense, why can't Brodie Croyle? Herm is so full of shit...


Are you serious right now? Warner had been around football much longer and picked many more offenses than Croyle. There is something to be said for experience. Warner had played several years in football after college, unlike Croyle. Plus, Croyle was hurt for most of camp.

doomy3
01-08-2007, 12:34 AM
Sure, they had talent, but that's not the issue. They had a lot of young players who didn't know the system.....yet immediately learned it and were able to execute it flawlessly...and Herm is telling us that's impossible...


There is a HUGE difference between Pace and Black learning the system. Or Holt and Jeff Webb.

FringeNC
01-08-2007, 12:39 AM
Are you serious right now? Warner had been around football much longer and picked many more offenses than Croyle. There is something to be said for experience. Warner had played several years in football after college, unlike Croyle. Plus, Croyle was hurt for most of camp.

And Croyle played in this offense in college....

You're missing the point. No one is saying experience doesn't matter. Herm is making an assertion that our offense is too complicated for our young players to learn. The reality of the situation is that our offense is too complicated for someone as IQ-challenged as Herm Edwards to understand. Herm simply does not understand the concept of game theory (optimal strategies), and thinks football is only about hitting people in the mouth.

Redcoats58
01-08-2007, 12:41 AM
And Croyle played in this offense in college....

You're missing the point. No one is saying experience doesn't matter. Herm is making an assertion that our offense is too complicated for our young players to learn. The reality of the situation is that our offense is too complicated for someone as IQ-challenged as Herm Edwards to understand. Herm simply does not understand the concept of game theory (optimal strategies), and thinks football is only about hitting people in the mouth.

Herm still has that old school players mentality.

FringeNC
01-08-2007, 12:42 AM
There is a HUGE difference between Pace and Black learning the system. Or Holt and Jeff Webb.

Why? Do we draft low IQ guys? Did Webb have a bad Wonderlic? Sure, he may not have the talent of Holt, but that doesn't mean he can't learn the offense.

Taco John
01-08-2007, 12:43 AM
You guys would finish in last place if you had Croyle starting this, or next year.

He's a talented kid, but he's got a lot of development to go through, including physical, before you want to put him in charge of an offense. The only thing starting him too early is going to do is destroy his confidence.

If he was a guy who could be ready in year one or two, he'd have been a first or second round pick. The reason he fell to the third round is that everyone in the league knew he was a developmental prospect. He could be a solid starter someday with that arm if he's given the time he needs to fill out and get up to speed.

CoMoChief
01-08-2007, 12:43 AM
Are you serious right now? Warner had been around football much longer and picked many more offenses than Croyle. There is something to be said for experience. Warner had played several years in football after college, unlike Croyle. Plus, Croyle was hurt for most of camp.

Kurt played in the arena leagues most of his career, which isn't exactly the NFL.

doomy3
01-08-2007, 12:47 AM
Kurt played in the arena leagues most of his career, which isn't exactly the NFL.


I agree, but it is still something. He had to learn new offenses when he played arena. There is something to be said about experience. The point is that he wasn't a 21 year old kid out of college that was making the jump from a simple college offense to the most complex offensive scheme in the NFL. Especially, like TJ said, when you are talking about a 3rd round QB, one who was hurt all through training camp at that.

RealSNR
01-08-2007, 12:53 AM
You guys would finish in last place if you had Croyle starting this, or next year.

He's a talented kid, but he's got a lot of development to go through, including physical, before you want to put him in charge of an offense. The only thing starting him too early is going to do is destroy his confidence.

If he was a guy who could be ready in year one or two, he'd have been a first or second round pick. The reason he fell to the third round is that everyone in the league knew he was a developmental prospect. He could be a solid starter someday with that arm if he's given the time he needs to fill out and get up to speed.Agreed. We're much better off going with an old fart veteran for at least another season.

Hopefully Croyle eventually bursts forth from the clipboard-holding cacoon and turns out to be a great QB

tk13
01-08-2007, 12:54 AM
Croyle needs to bulk up. He needs to go through a healthy training camp first, take the reps, have the game slow down for him. Even in the little action he got, he made some rookie mistakes. Plus, I like the idea of working rookie QB's in slowly.

I don't think Kurt Warner is a fair comparison to anybody. How many Kurt Warners are there out there? You don't see too many guys walking in off the street at any position and putting up HOF numbers.

FringeNC
01-08-2007, 12:56 AM
My hope going into the season was that Mike Solari could be a good care-taker on offense. The Roaf retirement and Green injury screwed up that. Now that we have to teach new players the system -- that's when we are going to miss the expertise of Vermeil and Saunders. Vermeil and Saunders taught the players well. Unfortunately, they're gone, and there is no one left to teach it. All this shit was so predictable, other than the accelerated rebuilding timetable, and that is hardly a shocker.

The offensive minds are gone, and we're screwed.

FringeNC
01-08-2007, 01:01 AM
How many Kurt Warners are there out there? You don't see too many guys walking in off the street at any position and putting up HOF numbers.


Missing my point. Not saying Croyle can put up HOF numbers. He's no Kurt Warner. My point is that Herm's argument that young players can't pick up this offense is bullshit. Drew Brees was *okay* in it his first year.

The real reason we have to simplify the offense is that no one on our staff is capable of teaching it, along with the fact that Herm thinks playbooks are unnecessay. Solari is capable of running it -- but running it and teaching it are two different things.

Coach
01-08-2007, 01:03 AM
Hey Coach Dumbass Edwards, the scheme is not the goddamn problem, the players already know it and set RECORDS WITH IT. Use your goddamn head, if you have one!

Only a f**king moron could take over this team, watch the offense flop, then blame the SYSTEM for it. I mean... the offensive system has always been a problem right?

I now like Herm even less, but so long as it's nothing that's HIS fault... see? It's Vermeil's fault for the system that's to complicated for 11 players who were in the same offense last season. What?!

This clown makes no sense, I'm already tired of him. We need some personell upgrades... change is not always improvement.... in this case it's a way of skirting blame for a piss poor gameplan.

How can they 'keep' a play action passing game that was nearly non existant all this season?!

Halfcan
01-08-2007, 01:04 AM
THIS JUST IN:

Herm promises to fix the Royals, Global Warming, and create Peace on Earth.

"Its okaaayyy man, it really is. As we speak these things are being addressed. I promise that things will be okay, it really will okay. When its darkest before the dawn, the silver lining will shine brighter than a bag of...... shiny things and it will be just fine.

beer bacon
01-08-2007, 01:19 AM
If Herm wants to have a successful offense he needs to find some tackles that can actually block. It is that simple.

el borracho
01-08-2007, 01:21 AM
I say we have Trent Retire. Make him Offensive Coordinator. Trent really couldn't do anything he wanted to do on offense. He made all of those plays when he was hurt and not a one of them used. Bring up Brodie, and let him chuck it.
Herm is pretty clear that Solari will be the O Coordinator. Everyone can stop wishing for a new GM, a new head coach and new coordinators. It is not going to happen.

el borracho
01-08-2007, 01:54 AM
I agree. He did the exact same thing when Vermeil was here. Peterson is the kinda GM that'll ride the pines of the coaches.

Every coach we had from Marty, Vermeil, to Herm...Each one of those coaches had specialized on 1 side of the ball, and was lackluster on the other. Peterson of course rode the pine, and didn't support ANY of these coaches for their lack of knowledge on 1 side of the ball. As a result, were always dominating on 1 side of the ball, crap on the other.

Ever notice that with the Chiefs? They either have a good defense or a good offense. It's one or the other. That's why we always been mediocre. It's not a coincedence. It's an imcompetent GM riding the pine of the coaches. And not being able to take control of the team and properly and throughly build it the way a competent GM would.

*But I think its also the organization for being stupid enough to keep him here. Why keep a GM who consistently builds mediocre teams? It tells you something about this organization as a whole in general.
What does "ride the pine" mean?

Eric
01-08-2007, 02:18 AM
Really interesting !!!!!!!

Why isn't this in the KC STAR ?

Gravedigger
01-08-2007, 02:21 AM
How about changing the Head Coach? Or how about changing the General Manager?

That's crazy talk!!!

DaWolf
01-08-2007, 02:27 AM
Hey Coach Dumbass Edwards, the scheme is not the goddamn problem, the players already know it and set RECORDS WITH IT. Use your goddamn head, if you have one!

Only a f**king moron could take over this team, watch the offense flop, then blame the SYSTEM for it. I mean... the offensive system has always been a problem right?


For goodness sakes, look at the damn roster.

NO Willie Roaf
A 37 year old QB
A 34 year old No 1 receiver
A 36 year old guard
A revolving RT position
A 33 year old center
NO TRich
NO Priest Holmes

This is not the same damned team that broke records and kept missing the playoffs. They are older, slower, broken. This #$%^ing system is built on SPEED. We don't have speed anymore. We started losing it last year, the cracks were showing, and this year we totally lost it.

What, did the system look so damned good in 2001 when Al Saunders and Vermeil took over and we went 6-10 with Snoop Minnis catching the ball?

ANY offensive system will look good as long as you have the players with the ability to EXECUTE the system. When the QB is getting killed, is turning the ball over, when we can't block, when the receivers aren't outrunning opponents anymore, it doesn't fit. Use a system that will fit the players and will win ballgames. And get better players, get younger players who can keep up.

What, the Steelers and Pats have been winning the last few Lombardis with a record setting offense?

What I am sick of is pansy ass players who go out and get hit in the mouth by the other team and fold. This offense has been as SOFT as our defense has been, and that's why we have ZERO postseason wins since 1993. We need a damn offense which goes out there and pushes the other team around and a defense that does the same. This team needs to get rid of all the damned wusses playing on it and get some football players who will go out there and lay some wood and win some important games on the *&^%ing road...

D2112
01-08-2007, 02:31 AM
What does "ride the pine" mean?
Sitting on the bench

007
01-08-2007, 02:43 AM
changes to the offense? Like what? Passing the ball?
Getting a first down would be a productive start.

007
01-08-2007, 02:43 AM
Herm is quickly becoming the most hated Coach in Chiefs history. I can't wait til we get rid of this fugnut.
Make me long for John Mackovic.

007
01-08-2007, 02:45 AM
His press conferences give me a headache. I hated him with the Jets-the day we traded for him my friend called up and was laughing. I thought he was joking. Unfortunately the joke was on the loyal Chiefs fans. We have ZERO hope for next year.
Hope? What the hell is that?

Oh, yeah... Something we lost years ago.

007
01-08-2007, 02:48 AM
I can't believe a word this jerknut is saying. Herm said in his first press conference when he was hired, that he wasn't going to change the offense. Ah, i dont know about you, but it looks alot different to me, and the players back that up.

So now I'm supposed to believe he's going to make positive changes?

I'm sure Herm is a good guy and all, but **** him.

Here's to another frustrating season of Chiefs football
:shake:
I like hearing the players like LJ and Gonzo revolting on him. They won't listen to the fans to maybe they will listen to their own players.

I know, too much to hope for. Er wait... Hope?

el borracho
01-08-2007, 02:48 AM
What I am sick of is pansy ass players who go out and get hit in the mouth by the other team and fold. This offense has been as SOFT as our defense has been, and that's why we have ZERO postseason wins since 1993. We need a damn offense which goes out there and pushes the other team around and a defense that does the same. This team needs to get rid of all the damned wusses playing on it and get some football players who will go out there and lay some wood and win some important games on the *&^%ing road...
:clap: :clap: :clap:
We need a couple of Dale Carters on this team. Big talent, big attitude. I hope we get a couple of mean tackles this offseason.

RedThat
01-08-2007, 02:49 AM
What does "ride the pine" mean?

It means being a follower.

Not leading by example. Following and relying on how to build a team according to what your head coach knows and specializes in, and not taking charge like a leader, and knowing how to step up and do it yourself. I honestly believe that is what Carl Peterson does. Thats why he needs to go imo. People can blame Herm this and that, but it's all useless imo.
He is not the real core of the problem in this organization.

I just want to prove my point about Peterson.

Look at a few of our coaches over the last 10 years:

Marty...great defensive mind, brought a great defense here...But was absolutely lackluster in knowledge when it came to the offensive side of the ball. As a result, we had a great defense, and a terrible offense.

Vermeil...same thing..except vice versa.

I anticipate the same thing will happen to Herm..great defense, terrible offense

*people blame coaches. I praise the coaches for building GREAT defenses, and offenses here. I say blame the GM for being so incompetent and failing to provide them with assistance in areas, sides of the ball where they incredibly lacked knowledge. Call me crazy, but, I honestly believe that is what goes on in this organization. No wonder were so frickn mediocre. Its frustrating.

RedThat
01-08-2007, 02:55 AM
That's crazy talk!!!

A new GM isn't crazy talk. In fact, it's getting to the point where it's becoming a reality.

Bob Dole
01-08-2007, 07:01 AM
Those changes would be aimed toward making things easier for younger players. Edwards wouldn't identify those players he would like to play more next season, but he may have been talking about rookie wide receivers Jeff Webb and Chris Hannon and perhaps even rookie quarterback Brodie Croyle.

"I just know it has to be player-friendly," Edwards said. "It has to be something that young players at all positions can play. I want to give the quarterback even more ability to change some things at the line of scrimmage. I want him to have the ability to get to anything we have right now.

Those two paragraphs illustrate Herm's brilliance.

Instead of giving an experienced QB who could recite the playbook in his sleep the option to audible this season, let's go with an inexperienced QB and give him more flexibility next year.

Nobody will expect it. Pure brilliance!

the Talking Can
01-08-2007, 07:11 AM
"Edwards said the Chiefs would keep their power running game centered on Larry Johnson and a play-action passing game. But they will simplify by cutting back on the number of plays and their complexities."


we only run 4 plays....how in the hell do you simplify that?

and why didn't we play action pass the Colts? you wait till we lose to decide this?

we're going back to Hackett ball....just watch

siberian khatru
01-08-2007, 07:29 AM
It's going to be fun to see how they dumb down an already dumb offense.

the Talking Can
01-08-2007, 07:34 AM
this is mind blowing

our run up the butt and punt offense is too complicated???

EM31
01-08-2007, 07:41 AM
Hi everyone. Post#1 and I know you have heard from plenty disgruntled Jets fans before or ones who "just want to help you out" so I will try not to be too predictable here.

First of all I will self identify as a Jets fan who was in the anti-Herm camp. Fundemantally dishonest snake oil salesman and shameless self promoter about sums it up. Oh, and someone who makes a virtue out of being a likeable dope. Only after he has gutted your team long enough the whole "likeable" thing gets to be a bit questionable.

Anyway, as to the discussion in this thread. Herm is up to his old tricks again I see. If you start from the understanding that NOTHING is ever Herm's fault then you will also appreciate the need for Herm to find scapegoats (plausible or otherwise). So now it is your OC who gets thrown under the bus in large part for doing what Herm ordered him to do. We saw the same thing twice!! First with Teddy Cottrell and then with Paul Hackett. (yes THAT Paul Hackett. A belated thanks to Chiefs fans who came over to our boards and tried to give us a heads up on Hackett).

Anyway, The OC gets blamed, "Changes will be made" but not a firing. And that part is important. Not a firing. This has the effect of deflecting blame away from Herm (today), forcing the OC in a position where he feels grateful to Herm for "saving his job" and finally it gives Herm another year with this guy and a plausible excuse if the same mess happens next year. After all, if the crap hits the fan then Herm was just being too loyal to his guys right? Any improvements on the other hand are because Herm came in and "took charge". And you know he will call a press conference and allude ever so subtly to the Herm-changes that worked.

It is a brilliant strategy.

Anyhow, congrats on having Larry Johnson and I mean that. You could have four of five top 5 picks in the next decade and not find another one like him. I hope the workload does not abbreviate his career. I would take Gonzalez in a heartbeat. He seems to have something left.

With Herm for better or for worse the palyoffs this year, however improbable at 9-7 mean that he is now at four playoffs out of six years (one of six without extreme luck). Four playoffs in six years looks good on paper and Paul Hackett knows what that can mean to the longevity of your career. I think 4-of-6 by itself added AT LEAST one more year to his tenure with the Chiefs and probably added another HC gig to his career after the Chiefs as well.

Good luck.

HemiEd
01-08-2007, 07:51 AM
Hey Coach Dumbass Edwards, the scheme is not the goddamn problem, the players already know it and set RECORDS WITH IT. Use your goddamn head, if you have one!

Only a f**king moron could take over this team, watch the offense flop, then blame the SYSTEM for it. I mean... the offensive system has always been a problem right?

I now like Herm even less, but so long as it's nothing that's HIS fault... see? It's Vermeil's fault for the system that's to complicated for 11 players who were in the same offense last season. What?!

This clown makes no sense, I'm already tired of him. We need some personell upgrades... change is not always improvement.... in this case it's a way of skirting blame for a piss poor gameplan.

How can they 'keep' a play action passing game that was nearly non existant all this season?!

I agree, this was my worst fear when he took over. He broke the best part of the team.

the Talking Can
01-08-2007, 07:56 AM
when your RB sets the NFL record for most carries in a season you lose the right to describe your offense as "too complicated"....

Silock
01-08-2007, 08:11 AM
Let me get this straight. We struggled because we were far too simple on offense, and the solution is to get even simpler?

That's not the point at all.

dirk digler
01-08-2007, 08:12 AM
I am not trying to defend Herm here but from everything that I have read the last couple of days the consensus from the Chiefs is this offense looked slow and old on Saturday. I can't necessarily disagree with that.

I think he is wanting to go young so we can play fast again.

Silock
01-08-2007, 08:13 AM
If this offense is so hard to learn, how was Martz able to take the Rams from about the worst offense in the league to the best his first year?

He had talent. Look at Detroit. They're a far cry.

Silock
01-08-2007, 08:14 AM
For goodness sakes, look at the damn roster.

NO Willie Roaf
A 37 year old QB
A 34 year old No 1 receiver
A 36 year old guard
A revolving RT position
A 33 year old center
NO TRich
NO Priest Holmes

This is not the same damned team that broke records and kept missing the playoffs. They are older, slower, broken. This #$%^ing system is built on SPEED. We don't have speed anymore. We started losing it last year, the cracks were showing, and this year we totally lost it.

What, did the system look so damned good in 2001 when Al Saunders and Vermeil took over and we went 6-10 with Snoop Minnis catching the ball?

ANY offensive system will look good as long as you have the players with the ability to EXECUTE the system. When the QB is getting killed, is turning the ball over, when we can't block, when the receivers aren't outrunning opponents anymore, it doesn't fit. Use a system that will fit the players and will win ballgames. And get better players, get younger players who can keep up.

What, the Steelers and Pats have been winning the last few Lombardis with a record setting offense?

What I am sick of is pansy ass players who go out and get hit in the mouth by the other team and fold. This offense has been as SOFT as our defense has been, and that's why we have ZERO postseason wins since 1993. We need a damn offense which goes out there and pushes the other team around and a defense that does the same. This team needs to get rid of all the damned wusses playing on it and get some football players who will go out there and lay some wood and win some important games on the *&^%ing road...

THANK YOU.

You pretty much said everything I was going to say.

Nothing lasts forever. All good things must come to an end. Insert cliche here, but it's the damned truth.

Silock
01-08-2007, 08:15 AM
Those two paragraphs illustrate Herm's brilliance.

Instead of giving an experienced QB who could recite the playbook in his sleep the option to audible this season, let's go with an inexperienced QB and give him more flexibility next year.

Nobody will expect it. Pure brilliance!

You cannot audible very well in this offense. THAT is the point. That's not how this offense works. There are too many packages and motions and shifting for you to be able to sit at the line and audible in and out of a bunch of different plays.

Silock
01-08-2007, 08:17 AM
First of all I will self identify as a Jets fan who was in the anti-Herm camp.

No offense, but that just made me zone out of even trying to read something good out of your post. Herm is either a like him or hate him guy, and for Jets fans, he's always been hated. If you are incapable of being unbiased, how can anyone really take what you say seriously?

King_Chief_Fan
01-08-2007, 08:18 AM
Hi everyone. Post#1 and I know you have heard from plenty disgruntled Jets fans before or ones who "just want to help you out" so I will try not to be too predictable here.

First of all I will self identify as a Jets fan who was in the anti-Herm camp. Fundemantally dishonest snake oil salesman and shameless self promoter about sums it up. Oh, and someone who makes a virtue out of being a likeable dope. Only after he has gutted your team long enough the whole "likeable" thing gets to be a bit questionable.

Anyway, as to the discussion in this thread. Herm is up to his old tricks again I see. If you start from the understanding that NOTHING is ever Herm's fault then you will also appreciate the need for Herm to find scapegoats (plausible or otherwise). So now it is your OC who gets thrown under the bus in large part for doing what Herm ordered him to do. We saw the same thing twice!! First with Teddy Cottrell and then with Paul Hackett. (yes THAT Paul Hackett. A belated thanks to Chiefs fans who came over to our boards and tried to give us a heads up on Hackett).

Anyway, The OC gets blamed, "Changes will be made" but not a firing. And that part is important. Not a firing. This has the effect of deflecting blame away from Herm (today), forcing the OC in a position where he feels grateful to Herm for "saving his job" and finally it gives Herm another year with this guy and a plausible excuse if the same mess happens next year. After all, if the crap hits the fan then Herm was just being too loyal to his guys right? Any improvements on the other hand are because Herm came in and "took charge". And you know he will call a press conference and allude ever so subtly to the Herm-changes that worked.

It is a brilliant strategy.

Anyhow, congrats on having Larry Johnson and I mean that. You could have four of five top 5 picks in the next decade and not find another one like him. I hope the workload does not abbreviate his career. I would take Gonzalez in a heartbeat. He seems to have something left.

With Herm for better or for worse the palyoffs this year, however improbable at 9-7 mean that he is now at four playoffs out of six years (one of six without extreme luck). Four playoffs in six years looks good on paper and Paul Hackett knows what that can mean to the longevity of your career. I think 4-of-6 by itself added AT LEAST one more year to his tenure with the Chiefs and probably added another HC gig to his career after the Chiefs as well.

Good luck.

thanks for coming over. You know you wasted your breath. LOts of yahoos on this board were hanging Jets fans who tried to tell them ahead of time. Don't be surprised to hear more yahoos tell you to get lost, or yeah we know, etc. etc.
congratulations on a good year post Herm. We hope to have one soon.

Red Dawg
01-08-2007, 08:32 AM
I have no problem with anything he said. We need young talent on offense that can make an impact. If the book is too complex, and we know it is, then simplify it so young WR's can get on the field.

Fairplay
01-08-2007, 08:44 AM
Our offense isn't that complicated.

Herm already slashed a lot of the offensive plays when he got here.

Que Card QB
01-08-2007, 09:07 AM
Offensive changes...yeah it's called starting over.

EM31
01-08-2007, 09:12 AM
No offense, but that just made me zone out of even trying to read something good out of your post. Herm is either a like him or hate him guy, and for Jets fans, he's always been hated. If you are incapable of being unbiased, how can anyone really take what you say seriously?
Well obviously everyone is going to decide for themselves but I would say the first few years of Herman Edwards with the Jets I was a kool-aid drinker. A Herm defender if you will. I would say that there was a tremendous benefit of the doubt afforded to Herm by the fan base and the media when he was with the Jets, so it really is incorrect to say that Herm has "always been hated" by Jets fans. It makes for an interesting rhetorical strawman but is far from the case. I can see some of that same sentiment here amongst the defenders of Herman Edwards. Over time I expect that you will begin to see more and more of the "I was a Herm defender but this is the final straw..." type posts.

Again, I was not in the anti-Herm camp for much of the time but it was more of a case fool me <insert number of times> shame on me type deal. Looking back I was pretty gullible.

As to your final point, people will take me seriously or not based upon the contrent of my posting. My post here was intended to relate Herm's history of throwing his coordinators under the bus and in slow motion no less. Meaning that he throws them under one year then keeps them around so he can throw them under the next year as he did with BOTH Teddy Cottrell and Paul Hackett. If you don't see a pattern then you do not see it. If on the other hand, you can see a pattern emerging where Herman is never actually to blame for anything bad happening, where Herman always has an OC, or a running back, or a quarterback to blame when things go wrong yet is front-and-center ready to step up to the mic when something goes well then I think you would be seeing the same pattern that I eventually cottoned on to.

Reerun_KC
01-08-2007, 09:17 AM
Well obviously everyone is going to decide for themselves but I would say the first few years of Herman Edwards with the Jets I was a kool-aid drinker. A Herm defender if you will. I would say that there was a tremendous benefit of the doubt afforded to Herm by the fan base and the media when he was with the Jets, so it really is incorrect to say that Herm has "always been hated" by Jets fans. It makes for an interesting rhetorical strawman but is far from the case. I can see some of that same sentiment here amongst the defenders of Herman Edwards. Over time I expect that you will begin to see more and more of the "I was a Herm defender but this is the final straw..." type posts.

Again, I was not in the anti-Herm camp for much of the time but it was more of a case fool me <insert number of times> shame on me type deal. Looking back I was pretty gullible.

As to your final point, people will take me seriously or not based upon the contrent of my posting. My post here was intended to relate Herm's history of throwing his coordinators under the bus and in slow motion no less. Meaning that he throws them under one year then keeps them around so he can throw them under the next year as he did with BOTH Teddy Cottrell and Paul Hackett. If you don't see a pattern then you do not see it. If on the other hand, you can see a pattern emerging where Herman is never actually to blame for anything bad happening, where Herman always has an OC, or a running back, or a quarterback to blame when things go wrong yet is front-and-center ready to step up to the mic when something goes well then I think you would be seeing the same pattern that I eventually cottoned on to.

Nice Post. We saw that alot this year. Herm chucked Solari under the bus in the pre-season for passing in the redzone... So we have seen this first hand.

Thanks for the info and we love the way Herms talks to us at his press conferences... How dare we question the Great Herm Edwards..

This guys is a joke and a disgrace to Lamar Hunt's memory...

Archie Bunker
01-08-2007, 09:17 AM
For goodness sakes, look at the damn roster.

NO Willie Roaf
A 37 year old QB
A 34 year old No 1 receiver
A 36 year old guard
A revolving RT position
A 33 year old center
NO TRich
NO Priest Holmes

This is not the same damned team that broke records and kept missing the playoffs. They are older, slower, broken. This #$%^ing system is built on SPEED. We don't have speed anymore. We started losing it last year, the cracks were showing, and this year we totally lost it.

What, did the system look so damned good in 2001 when Al Saunders and Vermeil took over and we went 6-10 with Snoop Minnis catching the ball?

ANY offensive system will look good as long as you have the players with the ability to EXECUTE the system. When the QB is getting killed, is turning the ball over, when we can't block, when the receivers aren't outrunning opponents anymore, it doesn't fit. Use a system that will fit the players and will win ballgames. And get better players, get younger players who can keep up.

What, the Steelers and Pats have been winning the last few Lombardis with a record setting offense?

What I am sick of is pansy ass players who go out and get hit in the mouth by the other team and fold. This offense has been as SOFT as our defense has been, and that's why we have ZERO postseason wins since 1993. We need a damn offense which goes out there and pushes the other team around and a defense that does the same. This team needs to get rid of all the damned wusses playing on it and get some football players who will go out there and lay some wood and win some important games on the *&^%ing road...

Rep sir.

FringeNC
01-08-2007, 09:20 AM
He had talent. Look at Detroit. They're a far cry.

Yeah, let's do take a look at Detroit. Completely changing schemes, going from a West Coast offense to a Coryell offense, Detroit improved quite a bit -- 40 yards per game and 4 points per game. Yeah, the offense is just too ****ing hard to learn...

penguinz
01-08-2007, 09:22 AM
Those two paragraphs illustrate Herm's brilliance.

Instead of giving an experienced QB who could recite the playbook in his sleep the option to audible this season, let's go with an inexperienced QB and give him more flexibility next year.

Nobody will expect it. Pure brilliance!
With the shifts this offense does you can not audible out of a play. There is not time.

FringeNC
01-08-2007, 09:24 AM
For goodness sakes, look at the damn roster.

NO Willie Roaf
A 37 year old QB
A 34 year old No 1 receiver
A 36 year old guard
A revolving RT position
A 33 year old center
NO TRich
NO Priest Holmes

This is not the same damned team that broke records and kept missing the playoffs. They are older, slower, broken. This #$%^ing system is built on SPEED. We don't have speed anymore. We started losing it last year, the cracks were showing, and this year we totally lost it.

What, did the system look so damned good in 2001 when Al Saunders and Vermeil took over and we went 6-10 with Snoop Minnis catching the ball?

ANY offensive system will look good as long as you have the players with the ability to EXECUTE the system. When the QB is getting killed, is turning the ball over, when we can't block, when the receivers aren't outrunning opponents anymore, it doesn't fit. Use a system that will fit the players and will win ballgames. And get better players, get younger players who can keep up.

What, the Steelers and Pats have been winning the last few Lombardis with a record setting offense?

What I am sick of is pansy ass players who go out and get hit in the mouth by the other team and fold. This offense has been as SOFT as our defense has been, and that's why we have ZERO postseason wins since 1993. We need a damn offense which goes out there and pushes the other team around and a defense that does the same. This team needs to get rid of all the damned wusses playing on it and get some football players who will go out there and lay some wood and win some important games on the *&^%ing road...

When was this team ever FAST? This team was certainly not built on speed. We were setting records on offense despite one of the worst WR corps in the league. Under the old regime, the offense was greater than the sum of their parts. No longer. It's that simple.

EM31
01-08-2007, 09:24 AM
thanks for coming over. You know you wasted your breath. LOts of yahoos on this board were hanging Jets fans who tried to tell them ahead of time. Don't be surprised to hear more yahoos tell you to get lost, or yeah we know, etc. etc.
congratulations on a good year post Herm. We hope to have one soon.
I think it is probably like Paul (3rd-and-long draw play) Hackett, the gift that seems to keep on giving. He still plying his trade in Tampa last time I checked. There is a bit of a "greater fool" theory going on where there is always someone else it seems who is willing to give him a job.

In one sense Herm provided the (what looks to be good) timing that led the Jets to Mangini. He also provided the 4th rounder that was well spent on Leon Washington. In that sense Herm had his pluses.

The playoffs this year I think will lead to several more years of Herm at Arrowhead. I don't know how strong the ownership is in KC but many teams would not want to expose themselves to the accusation that they are racially motivated in getting rid of a coach. Fortunately for the Jets, the manner of Herm's departure saved us from those charges.

Reerun_KC
01-08-2007, 09:26 AM
For goodness sakes, look at the damn roster.

NO Willie Roaf
A 37 year old QB
A 34 year old No 1 receiver
A 36 year old guard
A revolving RT position
A 33 year old center
NO TRich
NO Priest Holmes

This is not the same damned team that broke records and kept missing the playoffs. They are older, slower, broken. This #$%^ing system is built on SPEED. We don't have speed anymore. We started losing it last year, the cracks were showing, and this year we totally lost it.

What, did the system look so damned good in 2001 when Al Saunders and Vermeil took over and we went 6-10 with Snoop Minnis catching the ball?

ANY offensive system will look good as long as you have the players with the ability to EXECUTE the system. When the QB is getting killed, is turning the ball over, when we can't block, when the receivers aren't outrunning opponents anymore, it doesn't fit. Use a system that will fit the players and will win ballgames. And get better players, get younger players who can keep up.

What, the Steelers and Pats have been winning the last few Lombardis with a record setting offense?

What I am sick of is pansy ass players who go out and get hit in the mouth by the other team and fold. This offense has been as SOFT as our defense has been, and that's why we have ZERO postseason wins since 1993. We need a damn offense which goes out there and pushes the other team around and a defense that does the same. This team needs to get rid of all the damned wusses playing on it and get some football players who will go out there and lay some wood and win some important games on the *&^%ing road...

Great post and rep to you,

But you have to have a coach that can get the players to play for him... That can get his coordinators to plan and scheme their opponents. One that trust his staff...

Can we have one of those coaches?

patteeu
01-08-2007, 10:09 AM
I like what he's saying here. Face it, people, we don't have the personnel anymore to run the Al Saunders variant of Air Coryell. Willie Roaf is gone and Will Shields (along with everyone else) is a year older. The line can't pull for the stretch play anymore and the center is undersized for power running (not to mention the absence of a top notch blocking fullback). Trent Green was great when he had solid protection from his pass blockers, but he struggled in both years when Willie Roaf didn't anchor that line. What Herm seems to be saying is that he's going to consider modifications to the scheme to fit the talent he has available. I think that's a great idea.

Archie Bunker
01-08-2007, 10:15 AM
What Herm seems to be saying is that he's going to consider modifications to the scheme to fit the talent he has available. I think that's a great idea.

It needs to be done.

Fire Me Boy!
01-08-2007, 10:17 AM
I want to give the quarterback even more ability to change some things at the line of scrimmage. I want him to have the ability to get to anything we have right now.

Shoulda done that this year with Trent...

Hammock Parties
01-08-2007, 10:17 AM
The reason he fell to the third round is that everyone in the league knew he was a developmental prospect..

No. He fell to the third round because of injuries. The guy played in a pro-style offense at Alabama.

I think he'll compete for the starting job this year - just as Montana did his second year. How was Montana any more ready in his second year? If I'm not mistaken Montana played sparingly in college.

Hammock Parties
01-08-2007, 10:18 AM
Good article, BTW. Herm has us headed in the right direction. I liked this part:

I want to give the quarterback even more ability to change some things at the line of scrimmage.

Reerun_KC
01-08-2007, 10:19 AM
I like what he's saying here. Face it, people, we don't have the personnel anymore to run the Al Saunders variant of Air Coryell. Willie Roaf is gone and Will Shields (along with everyone else) is a year older. The line can't pull for the stretch play anymore and the center is undersized for power running (not to mention the absence of a top notch blocking fullback). Trent Green was great when he had solid protection from his pass blockers, but he struggled in both years when Willie Roaf didn't anchor that line. What Herm seems to be saying is that he's going to consider modifications to the scheme to fit the talent he has available. I think that's a great idea.



That is pretty laughable..

Herm and offense in the same sentence...

BIG_DADDY
01-08-2007, 10:19 AM
**** Herm. When he came here the offense worked. All he needed to do was fix the D but nooooooooo not Herm he wanted to fix the #2 offense in football. Congratulations Herm.

patteeu
01-08-2007, 10:21 AM
That is pretty laughable..

Herm and offense in the same sentence...

:hmmm: Herm and offense did not appear in the same sentence anywhere in that post.

WilliamTheIrish
01-08-2007, 10:21 AM
The problem is Peterson...he has to be shit canned...he's drinking the Hermy Kool-aid just like Bradway did..

Really? No kidding? Peterson? No shit? Peterson? I love it when fans from other teams tell me about a problem this team has had for 17 years as though I didn't know it existed.

KCJohnny
01-08-2007, 10:22 AM
Getting younger, more athletic, faster players involved in offense is a priority. Reducing a truncated play book baffles me. Herm identifying Solari as using an entire regular season to "learn the passing game" is shocking.

There is no doubt in my mind that young athletic WRs and OLmen are in demand. With the right scheme, KW could do a lot that TG is doing now if TG left and we had cap room to shop for some younger talent. The "win now" window is closed. DAWolf is correct. Its time for a youth movement. If that means a new scheme, so be it. I would prefer Huard stay and run that new scheme until Croyle matures, unless Croyle can beat him out in camp.

Let's not forget that DV brought his Rams QB, his Rams coaches, his Rams playbook and a few Rams players with him when he made that journey on I-70 West in 2001. This roster is NOT capable of running even a run-heavy version of the GSoT anymore.

Hammock Parties
01-08-2007, 10:24 AM
Here's my only problem - what variation of the Coryell system used big receivers? It seems like we have the personnel now to switch to the west coast w/power running (ala Seahawks and Packers), but we're stuck with an offensive coordinator that's never run that system and a quarterback who knows Coryell. What now?

KCJohnny
01-08-2007, 10:25 AM
Here's my only problem - what variation of the Coryell system used big receivers? It seems like we have the personnel now to switch to the west coast w/power running (ala Seahawks and Packers), but we're stuck with an offensive coordinator that's never run that system and a quarterback who knows Coryell. What now?

Just keep "Remember the Titans" away from Herm. They had 6 plays.

Mr. Laz
01-08-2007, 10:26 AM
They won't include a new coordinator. Edwards said Mike Solari would continue in that job no matter what type of offense the Chiefs use.

But they will simplify by cutting back on the number of plays and their complexities
Dear lord ... i think i just puked in my mouth a little. :Lin:



:banghead:

you don't change offenses WITHOUT changing the offense staff. This is not an attack on Solari ... but you really don't want your Offensive Coordinator learning the system while trying to teach the new system to the players.

that is just a disaster waiting to happen

the same stupid ass thing Vermeil did with the defense




simplify .... cutting back on plays???

holy crap, how much simplier can a gameplan be than what we ran against the colts.


i feel sick ... i really feel sick :sulk:

txhawk
01-08-2007, 10:34 AM
As far as Solari goes, I'm not his biggest proponent. But in his defense, how can an OC feel comfortable calling pass plays downfield when the WR's can't get separation. The perfect pass is not a way to base your offense passing. Let Tony G go, use his money to get some WR help. Kennison is a borderline number two. Parker shouldn't see the field, and it's time Dante moves on. Use Bennett as KR/PR.

KCJohnny
01-08-2007, 10:36 AM
As far as Solari goes, I'm not his biggest proponent. But in his defense, how can an OC feel comfortable calling pass plays downfield when the WR's can't get separation. The perfect pass is not a way to base your offense passing. Let Tony G go, use his money to get some WR help. Kennison is a borderline number two. Parker shouldn't see the field, and it's time Dante moves on. Use Bennett as KR/PR.

Herm said Solari was "learning the passing game" this year.
:shake:

crazycoffey
01-08-2007, 10:38 AM
HEY Herm Haters!!!

I got this to say, you have to at least respect the idea that he is seriously looking at his philosophy and his player's abilities, the success and failures this year and willing to change to become better, and this makes you bit*h at him?

They ran the same offense, but the playcalling was more conservative, exp. when green went down. We've all heard how complex the playbooks are, the motions, the amount of looks, etc. Maybe it is time for that offense to go away, the players aren't the same for it anymore.

My point is; it takes a man to admit he's wrong and make changes, hard as hell for me personally, and to have herm already saying he want's to look at this, means he won't be sitting around doing nothing, he'll be proactive to make improvments, not going to off to make wine.

Archie Bunker
01-08-2007, 10:38 AM
No system will work with this bad of an o-line and that is all on Carl.

Shields is done, Wiegman has declined, and I have no hope for any of the flunkies the Chiefs used at either tackle position. Outstide of maybe Waters the Chiefs have giant holes all across the OL. Carl had plenty of time to groom replacements and he didn't get it done.

crazycoffey
01-08-2007, 10:41 AM
Herm said Solari was "learning the passing game" this year.
:shake:


That has to mean, learning how to call pass plays with our WR corp. truely a challenge, I'm sure

Reerun_KC
01-08-2007, 10:42 AM
:hmmm: Herm and offense did not appear in the same sentence anywhere in that post.


Well damn. But they dont belong anyway....

crap, look like doorknob this morning.

Reerun_KC
01-08-2007, 10:43 AM
That has to mean, learning how to call pass plays with our WR corp. truely a challenge, I'm sure


AS didnt have much trouble.... Cant be that challenging?

Unless you are being Lead by Herm, then masturbating with a cheesegrader become challenging to say the least.

blackhawk
01-08-2007, 10:45 AM
o just great next year no first downs!

Hammock Parties
01-08-2007, 10:46 AM
No system will work with this bad of an o-line and that is all on Carl.

:clap:

We have to hope that Black can play RG and Terry can play RT. I think replacing two starters on the OL with outside talent is the best we can hope for. Any more than that and it will be a disaster.

htismaqe
01-08-2007, 10:49 AM
you don't change offenses WITHOUT changing the offense staff. This is not an attack on Solari ... but you really don't want your Offensive Coordinator learning the system while trying to teach the new system to the players.

In this case, you DO change the offense and keep the offensive coordinator.

Why?

Because Mike Solari was never allowed to call HIS offense. This was HERM'S offense all along.

Fire Me Boy!
01-08-2007, 10:49 AM
That is pretty laughable..

Herm and offense in the same sentence...
Herm's gameplan was offensive.

There, I did it and it works 100 percent.

WilliamTheIrish
01-08-2007, 10:51 AM
HEY Herm Haters!!!

I got this to say, you have to at least respect the idea that he is seriously looking at his philosophy and his player's abilities, the success and failures this year and willing to change to become better, and this makes you bit*h at him?

.

I heard this all before. It was called "Getting yardage in chunks" and it was espoused by Marty. It blew chunks. Personally, I don't believe a word from Herm because he's Carl's hand puppet. Much the same way Gunther was.

We are simply moving away from Coryell ball to the straight ahead Martyocre power running/play action game. In effect, going backwards in (football) time.

What we saw in the playoffs is what we'll see in the regular season next year. And there won't be any significant changes in personell. We'll have the same QB, and the same porous OLine.
It'll just be more conservative to protect the aged QB.

Extra Point
01-08-2007, 10:52 AM
Hello Damon Huard, goodbye Trent Green. Green was just a season away from riding the Washington pine, a heartbeat away from going in for Brunell.

Why is it we did so well when the playbook was simplified?

Why didn't we play-fake on first down, the first play of the game, when Indy was expecting us to run? Dungy over Edwards, as usual!

Next time, buy dinner, Herm!

Hammock Parties
01-08-2007, 10:53 AM
the same porous OLine.


You are nuts if you think they aren't going to put forth a serious effort to upgrade the OL this offseason.

DeezNutz
01-08-2007, 10:55 AM
I posted this in another thread, but I think it went under the radar: Does anyone know what the cap hit would be for saying good-bye to Green? Is it so nasty that this isn't even a realistic possibility with Carl looming in the background demanding his money's worth?

BIG_DADDY
01-08-2007, 10:58 AM
The only change from Herm I want to see is him staying the **** away from the offense.

WilliamTheIrish
01-08-2007, 10:59 AM
You are nuts if you think they aren't going to put forth a serious effort to upgrade the OL this offseason.

When you say upgrade, I want you to dream big and tell me who the Chiefs would go after.

let's get it out here and then we'll see how 'nuts' I am when the season rolls around.

Brock
01-08-2007, 11:02 AM
When you say upgrade, I want you to dream big and tell me who the Chiefs would go after.

let's get it out here and then we'll see how 'nuts' I am when the season rolls around.

It appears the most notable player available in free agency is the Cardinals' Leonard Davis, so I don't see a lot of avenues to immediate improvement.

Calcountry
01-08-2007, 11:09 AM
I say we have Trent Retire. Make him Offensive Coordinator. Trent really couldn't do anything he wanted to do on offense. He made all of those plays when he was hurt and not a one of them used. Bring up Brodie, and let him chuck it.ROFL

ottawa_chiefs_fan
01-08-2007, 11:11 AM
Everytime they played up the Herm, Dungy, Lovie relationship on the telecast Saturday all I could think about was the inevitable fact that in close three-person male relationships, two of them are ALWAYS talking about what a dunce the third one is.....I can imagine the conversation and giggles between Dungy and Lovie after this one! I am sure they treat Herm like the drooling cousin chained to a post in the attic.

C-Mac
01-08-2007, 11:14 AM
As far as Solari goes, I'm not his biggest proponent. But in his defense, how can an OC feel comfortable calling pass plays downfield when the WR's can't get separation. The perfect pass is not a way to base your offense passing. Let Tony G go, use his money to get some WR help. Kennison is a borderline number two. Parker shouldn't see the field, and it's time Dante moves on. Use Bennett as KR/PR.

I'm still upset that he didnt call for more quick throw short crossing route passes, they work almost all of the time. When he finally did with Indy they scored a TD. Then next possesion, the crossing routes were open again but now Green decides to throw deep for int. Perhaps there is some truth to the type of offense your capable of and you have to de-program someone like Green. I have no problem with any offense that catters well to the skills of the players thus enabling the moving of the chains and scoring points.

Mr. Laz
01-08-2007, 11:16 AM
In this case, you DO change the offense and keep the offensive coordinator.

Why?

Because Mike Solari was never allowed to call HIS offense. This was HERM'S offense all along.
but Herm says the offense is getting even more Marty-ballish


so the offense that solari did learn under vermeil/saunders is going away even more.

How is exactly did you make the leap to "Herm now is gonna let Solari do what he wants"?

Brock
01-08-2007, 11:18 AM
I think most teams would fire an OC after a playoff game like that one. The Chiefs will probably give him a raise.

patteeu
01-08-2007, 11:18 AM
Here's my only problem - what variation of the Coryell system used big receivers? It seems like we have the personnel now to switch to the west coast w/power running (ala Seahawks and Packers), but we're stuck with an offensive coordinator that's never run that system and a quarterback who knows Coryell. What now?

Solari was coaching for San Francisco from 92-96 and for Kansas City from 97 until now. I think that both San Francisco and pre-Vermeil Kansas City ran the West Coast offense.

htismaqe
01-08-2007, 11:20 AM
but Herm says the offense is getting even more Marty-ballish

so the offense that solari did learn under vermeil/saunders is going away even more.

How is exactly did you make the leap to "Herm now is gonna let Solari do what he wants"?

After a playoff game like that, I think it's possible Carl sticks his nose into the situation. We've seen it before...

Hammock Parties
01-08-2007, 11:21 AM
Solari was coaching for San Francisco from 92-96 and for Kansas City from 97 until now. I think that both San Francisco and pre-Vermeil Kansas City ran the West Coast offense.

That's encouraging. I guess we'll be looking at some sort of hybrid perhaps.

Mr. Laz
01-08-2007, 11:27 AM
After a playoff game like that, I think it's possible Carl sticks his nose into the situation. We've seen it before...
it's possible ... but i have still yet to seen any indication from Herman that the change that's going to be made is let Solari do more of what he wants ... more importantly what he knows.


so next year our offensive coordinator is gonna be basically creating a new offensive system and teaching a new offensive system at the same time.

Herm admitted that Solari was only JUST learning the passing game THIS year.

So tell me how good is the passing part of the offense gonna be?

when Solari is such a n00b about it AND is gonna be learning and teaching a new passing game after only 1 year of passing OC experience.


you don't do this ... you don't take this kind of risk


if you want a new offensive system then you go out and hire an offensive coordinator who is an expert in that offensive system.

KCJohnny
01-08-2007, 11:27 AM
That's encouraging. I guess we'll be looking at some sort of hybrid perhaps.

We never ran a pure Left Coast offense here. It was always a hybrid based on our consistent strengths being OL, FB, and TE.

patteeu
01-08-2007, 11:36 AM
That's encouraging. I guess we'll be looking at some sort of hybrid perhaps.

Everything I've always heard about Solari (besides the stuff I hear from disgruntled fans) is that he's a pretty sharp guy and the players like him so I'm optimistic that he can be effective.

WilliamTheIrish
01-08-2007, 11:38 AM
You are nuts if you think they aren't going to put forth a serious effort to upgrade the OL this offseason.



When you say upgrade, I want you to dream big and tell me who the Chiefs would go after.

let's get it out here and then we'll see how 'nuts' I am when the season rolls around.


I'm waiting.

patteeu
01-08-2007, 11:41 AM
it's possible ... but i have still yet to seen any indication from Herman that the change that's going to be made is let Solari do more of what he wants ... more importantly what he knows.


so next year our offensive coordinator is gonna be basically creating a new offensive system and teaching a new offensive system at the same time.

Herm admitted that Solari was only JUST learning the passing game THIS year.

So tell me how good is the passing part of the offense gonna be?

when Solari is such a n00b about it AND is gonna be learning and teaching a new passing game after only 1 year of passing OC experience.


you don't do this ... you don't take this kind of risk


if you want a new offensive system then you go out and hire an offensive coordinator who is an expert in that offensive system.

Hot coordinators leave their teams to become head coaches not to be coordinators elsewhere. Obviously, Al Saunders was an exception to this rule of thumb, but after being passed over for head coach here for the second time, it's not really surprising that he left.

Every single one of the hot coordinators in the league was at one time a first year coordinator without any experience in coordination. Hell, Al Saunders wasn't a coordinator before getting the job here was he? I know he was a head coach for a year and he had lots of coaching experience, but was he ever actually calling plays before he came here? Maybe as head coach, but otherwise I don't think he did.

Mr. Laz
01-08-2007, 11:45 AM
Hot coordinators leave their teams to become head coaches not to be coordinators elsewhere. Obviously, Al Saunders was an exception to this rule of thumb, but after being passed over for head coach here for the second time, it's not really surprising that he left.

Every single one of the hot coordinators in the league was at one time a first year coordinator without any experience in coordination. Hell, Al Saunders wasn't a coordinator before getting the job here was he? I know he was a head coach for a year and he had lots of coaching experience, but was he ever actually calling plays before he came here? Maybe as head coach, but otherwise I don't think he did.
i understand ... a new offensive coordinator has to start somewhere.


but to have solari ... deal with an aging offense, learn a new system , teach that new system and deal with a system that doesn't fit the players is just setting him up to fall flat on his face.

it's too much

solari should of learned the passing game BEFORE becoming OC ... and even then he should run with the same system for awhile before he's ready to build an offense himself.

MahiMike
01-08-2007, 11:51 AM
yawn. He sure didn't seem to mind it during the game. Looked like he threw the game for his buddy. Hopefully that's the case and he's not really incompetent. A guy can only hope...

patteeu
01-08-2007, 11:53 AM
i understand ... a new offensive coordinator has to start somewhere.


but to have solari ... deal with an aging offense, learn a new system , teach that new system and deal with a system that doesn't fit the players is just setting him up to fall flat on his face.

it's too much

solari should of learned the passing game BEFORE becoming OC ... and even then he should run with the same system for awhile before he's ready to build an offense himself.

I personally think the whole "learning the passing game" is overblown. I do think we have to expect some growing pains for a guy calling plays for the first year, but I suspect that learning the passing plays wasn't the problem.

Let's see how things go after he gets a full offseason to learn from this year and have some input into whatever the scheme turns out to be next year.

dirk digler
01-08-2007, 11:57 AM
The problem I have is I believe Solari is Herm's lackey and Herm's know as much about offense as DV does about defense.

FAX
01-08-2007, 11:58 AM
Learning the passing game ain't rocket surgery.

There are middle school coaches that could call better game plans than we did against the Mannings.

That offensive display was beyond bad. Well beyond.

FAX

Mr. Laz
01-08-2007, 12:05 PM
Learning the passing game ain't rocket surgery.I personally think the whole "learning the passing game" is overblown.
then why was important enough for Herm to bring up?

why do people all throughout the league struggle with it?

why are owners throughout the league paying OC's millions to do what a monkey should be able to do?


we are flirting with disaster to basically give our offensive coordinator "on the job" training .... especially since he's under a offensively challenged Head coach.


i'm just sayin' :shrug:


bad mojo in this move

FringeNC
01-08-2007, 12:05 PM
After a playoff game like that, I think it's possible Carl sticks his nose into the situation. We've seen it before...

If that were the case, I'm not sure Carl would have had Gretz take Herm's side and throw the players under the bus. The Gretz article suggests to me that Herm is in complete control, and that there is going to be a purge of anyone supportive of the old guard.

FAX
01-08-2007, 12:14 PM
My take, Mr. Laz, is that the "learning the passing game" comment is more Hermjawflappage. He has to say something, you know. I mean, to explain why we sucked so much.

An argument can be made that many coaches and assistants and coordinators are overpaid, but that's not the context, as I see it.

The bottom line is that, your OC had better know how to design game plans that include an effective passing strategy. That's pretty basic stuff. Especially if the enemy is expecting the run. If not, you really shouldn't be paying him a dime.

FAX

patteeu
01-08-2007, 12:17 PM
then why was important enough for Herm to bring up?

why do people all throughout the league struggle with it?

why are owners throughout the league paying OC's millions to do what a monkey should be able to do?


we are flirting with disaster to basically give our offensive coordinator "on the job" training .... especially since he's under a offensively challenged Head coach.


i'm just sayin' :shrug:


bad mojo in this move

I'm not saying that learning the passing game is easy enough for an internet QB like you or me to figure out, I'm saying that Mike Solari has been an offensive coach in this league for well over a decade and I don't think it's a stretch for him to figure it out. As a line coach, he's had to coach the line on passing plays as well as running plays. It's not like he was only aware of running plays. How could a WR coach like Al Saunders ever grasp the running game in his first year as a coordinator?

KCJohnny
01-08-2007, 12:45 PM
The problem I have is I believe Solari is Herm's lackey and Herm's know as much about offense as DV does about defense.

Stop it! You're scaring the children!!!!!

:mad:

boogblaster
01-08-2007, 12:54 PM
Simple fix...Bring in more WRs..Keep Gonzo..Keep Wilson..Throw more to LJ, if that means early to camp for him..OTs a must..Look for some young speed with good hands to back-up LJ..QBs we need another quality back-up..If Huard stays which I doubt he'll work fine..The ability to change plays has to happen also..DTs need upgraded some..And last GAME-DAY coaching has to change..You have to take what the D.. gives you, till you make them change.. BOOG OUTT ...

KCJake
01-08-2007, 12:56 PM
[QUOTE=Halfcan]Cut down on the number of plays???

Instead of Run right, left, then middle-we go to run it up the middle every time.
QUOTE]

Yeah no shit! ROFL

Mr. Laz
01-08-2007, 01:14 PM
My take, Mr. Laz, is that the "learning the passing game" comment is more Hermjawflappage. He has to say something, you know. I mean, to explain why we sucked so much.

An argument can be made that many coaches and assistants and coordinators are overpaid, but that's not the context, as I see it.

The bottom line is that, your OC had better know how to design game plans that include an effective passing strategy. That's pretty basic stuff. Especially if the enemy is expecting the run. If not, you really shouldn't be paying him a dime.

FAX
let's hope you are correct, Mr. Fax.


... scratch that


let's hope and pray that you are correct, Mr. Fax

Mr. Laz
01-08-2007, 01:22 PM
I'm not saying that learning the passing game is easy enough for an internet QB like you or me to figure out, I'm saying that Mike Solari has been an offensive coach in this league for well over a decade and I don't think it's a stretch for him to figure it out. As a line coach, he's had to coach the line on passing plays as well as running plays. It's not like he was only aware of running plays. How could a WR coach like Al Saunders ever grasp the running game in his first year as a coordinator?
i understand, but Al saunders has been in this offensive system for years ... clear back to Dan Fouts. He's been wide receivers coach,assistant head coach,head coach ... all with basically the same offensive system.




~Al Saunders (partial bio)

Al Saunders played Defensive Back at San Jose State University (SJSU) from 1966-1968 where he was a three-year starter, team captain and Academic All-American. Saunders also played Wide Receiver for the San Jose State Spartans.

In the 1970's, Al Saunders joined the coaching staff at San Diego State University (SDSU), whose SDSU Aztecs were then under the control of Head Coach Don Coryell. Saunders would go with Coryell to NFL when Coryell became the Head Coach of the San Diego Chargers.

From 1983-1986, Saunders was the wide receivers coach for the Chargers.

He was tapped as the Charger's Interim Head Coach when Coryell resigned during the middle of the 1986 season.

Saunders would eventually replace Coryell as the Head Coach from 1986-1988.

From 1989-1998, Saunders was with the Kansas City Chiefs, where he served as the Assistant Head Coach and Wide Receivers Coach under Marty Schottenheimer.

Saunders would then join the St. Louis Rams coaching staff. From 1999-2000 he served as the Wide Receivers Coach under Dick Vermeil and later as Assistant Head Coach under Mike Martz. During this period, the Rams won Super Bowl XXXIV in 2000.

Saunders would rejoin the Kansas City Chiefs in 2001 as the Offensive Coordinator when Vermeil came out of retirement. In his second stint with the Chiefs, Saunders built the NFL's top offense, which was ranked #1 in the NFL from 2002-2005.

On January 19, 2006, he joined the coaching staff of the Washington Redskins as the Associate Head Coach - Offense, reuniting him with fellow "Air Coryell" alumn~

Easy 6
01-08-2007, 02:17 PM
Jaws just nailed it on ESPN "no motion, no creativity of formation, no trickery" as plain as vanilla pudding.

dannybcaitlyn
01-08-2007, 02:17 PM
How about the patriots offensive scheme? There backup receivers look like stars during the jets game. Seems like it takes like two years for our receivers to even get a grasp on our current system.

KCJohnny
01-08-2007, 04:38 PM
Jaws just nailed it on ESPN "no motion, no creativity of formation, no trickery" as plain as vanilla pudding.

No trickery? You mean just lining up in the I-Formation and handing it to Larry wasn't clever? I was stunned at how few PA passes were attempted. At least fake the fake, y'know?

GoHuge
01-08-2007, 04:56 PM
Sure, they had talent, but that's not the issue. They had a lot of young players who didn't know the system.....yet immediately learned it and were able to execute it flawlessly...and Herm is telling us that's impossible...So does this mean our young guys are all stupid? Please don't tell me the reason that Jeff Webb can't get on the field is he's too dumb to figure out the offense. WTF difference does it make? The guys that know it can't catch anyway. HERM!! STFU I'll just stop now.

Easy 6
01-08-2007, 04:58 PM
No trickery? You mean just lining up in the I-Formation and handing it to Larry wasn't clever? I was stunned at how few PA passes were attempted. At least fake the fake, y'know?\

I'm in full agreeance KCJ, thats why i REFUSE to be shouted down around here by some who think the players should be able to make ANY turdburger the coaches throw out work to perfection.

*in the voice of the goombah who wacked Pesci in Goodfellas*

And THATS THAT...

PastorMikH
01-08-2007, 05:00 PM
From the sounds of this article, next season we will be even more "vanilla" predictable than this season. If so, next season is already a loss.




I'm thinking that we need to get 15 OL, all over 300# that can run 4.7 or faster, 3 more RB's and a couple of fast QBs - they don't need an arm or accurate pass 'cause they won't be throwing.

Here's the plan...

We line up a QB (Only needed for option play or choosing which RB gets the ball), 2 RB, and 8 OL. That way, we can force our will to run on any opponent.

We could put in turf for better footing and call our new O "3 yards and a cloud of lint".

dirk digler
01-08-2007, 05:01 PM
Jaws just nailed it on ESPN "no motion, no creativity of formation, no trickery" as plain as vanilla pudding.

Damn I didn't even recognize that.

Saunders always used shifting and motion and try to trick the D.

Alright Herm and Solari need to be....well I can't really say it in public.

Silock
01-08-2007, 05:14 PM
Yeah, let's do take a look at Detroit. Completely changing schemes, going from a West Coast offense to a Coryell offense, Detroit improved quite a bit -- 40 yards per game and 4 points per game. Yeah, the offense is just too ****ing hard to learn...

Improved, but far from the best in the league. It's Detroit... how hard can it possibly be to improve that offense?

Silock
01-08-2007, 05:15 PM
When was this team ever FAST? This team was certainly not built on speed. We were setting records on offense despite one of the worst WR corps in the league. Under the old regime, the offense was greater than the sum of their parts. No longer. It's that simple.

Fine, call it mobility.

KCJohnny
01-08-2007, 05:31 PM
\

I'm in full agreeance KCJ, thats why i REFUSE to be shouted down around here by some who think the players should be able to make ANY turdburger the coaches throw out work to perfection.

*in the voice of the goombah who wacked Pesci in Goodfellas*

And THATS THAT...

You're a Long Tabber or a Ranger, right? I'm 82nd. There are people on here with 50,000 posts who are basically PC nerds that guard this place like it was mama's purse. I come here to talk football a few times a year. I appreciate what you and all others who want to talk football have to say.
:toast:

A Soldier knows that a turd of an operation plan is rarely rescued by heroic fighting alone.

Baby Lee
01-08-2007, 05:36 PM
You're a Long Tabber or a Ranger, right? I'm 82nd. There are people on here with 50,000 posts who are basically PC nerds that guard this place like it was mama's purse. I come here to talk football a few times a year. I appreciate what you and all others who want to talk football have to say.
:toast:

A Soldier knows that a turd of an operation plan is rarely rescued by heroic fighting alone.
Crank up the oven, Ma.
Monday night is PIE NIGHT!!!

KCJohnny
01-08-2007, 05:42 PM
Crank up the oven, Ma.
Monday night is PIE NIGHT!!!

PC Nerd.

Easy 6
01-08-2007, 05:42 PM
You're a Long Tabber or a Ranger, right? I'm 82nd. There are people on here with 50,000 posts who are basically PC nerds that guard this place like it was mama's purse. I come here to talk football a few times a year. I appreciate what you and all others who want to talk football have to say.
:toast:

A Soldier knows that a turd of an operation plan is rarely rescued by heroic fighting alone.

I was Air-Assault for 1 year at Ft.Campbell HOOOAAAHHH!!!

The other 3 years i was at Ft.Wainwright as a Combat Eng. operating a SEE-Tractor. Hella cold, atleast in winter, summers were fantastic.

No Ranger, no Airborne.

But in line with your thinking, i have certainly witnessed turd plans attempt to be carried out by highly capable soldiers that just didnt work because the "plan" SUCKED to begin with.

KCJohnny
01-08-2007, 05:44 PM
I was Air-Assault for 1 year at Ft.Campbell HOOOAAAHHH!!!

The other 3 years i was at Ft.Wainwright as a Combat Eng. operating a SEE-Tractor. Hella cold, atleast in winter, summers were fantastic.

No Ranger, no Airborne.

But in line with your thinking, i have certainly witnessed turd plans attempt to be carried out by highly capable soldiers that just didnt work because the "plan" SUCKED to begin with.

That was my point. Thanks!
Air Assault!
(3rd BCT Rakkasans 1997-1999)

Easy 6
01-08-2007, 05:46 PM
PC Nerd.

Johnny, you should rise above the "pie" taunts & tell me just what in the world it all means. I'm here all night.

Yet i have just gotten a subtle clue that my request was bad, so proceed cautiously...

Easy 6
01-08-2007, 05:53 PM
That was my point. Thanks!
Air Assault!
(3rd BCT Rakkasans 1997-1999)

I had some straight up bro's in the Rakkasans, still in touch with 1, names Bill Coughlin, he got messed up pretty bad when he stood underneath a tank turret on a winch as repairs were made, winch failed & he took the brunt on a K-potted head, it saved his ability to walk.

But he lost a FULL 4 inches of height over it.

Coach
01-08-2007, 06:15 PM
In this case, you DO change the offense and keep the offensive coordinator.

Why?

Because Mike Solari was never allowed to call HIS offense. This was HERM'S offense all along.

Exactly what I'm trying to explain. The system is not to complicated... everyone in the starting lineup knows the system.

Norv Turner turned around the 49ers using the same freaking system. If it's not to complicated for them, why would is it our team? Is our team stupid? It's an excuse.

Scapegoating at it's finest. Hello HERM!! I KNOW the system works... there is about 4 years of evidence. Losing Will Roaf is NOT an excuse... we didn't get beat by Dwight Freeney... we just sucked.

And this team isn't built for the style of offense that HERM wants to run. This team is built for quick passes/screens/etc.

Here's a question for anybody. If we are going to change schemes, why would we not change offensive coordinators? The only reason Solari was promoted in the first place was because he knew the old system. Now, if we change schemes, which would be Herm's new scheme, none of the coaches on the staff will be familiar with it - and Solari will be a "rookie" with it all over again.

S**t, if you want to change up the offense do it the right way.

KCJohnny
01-08-2007, 06:37 PM
I had some straight up bro's in the Rakkasans, still in touch with 1, names Bill Coughlin, he got messed up pretty bad when he stood underneath a tank turret on a winch as repairs were made, winch failed & he took the brunt on a K-potted head, it saved his ability to walk.

But he lost a FULL 4 inches of height over it.

Ouch. Poor trooper. I've been ABN/AASLT most of my career. I don't like tanks. They're dangerous!

htismaqe
01-08-2007, 07:02 PM
If that were the case, I'm not sure Carl would have had Gretz take Herm's side and throw the players under the bus. The Gretz article suggests to me that Herm is in complete control, and that there is going to be a purge of anyone supportive of the old guard.

This should not be confused with me taking Herm's side, but:

If they love Dick Vermeil so much that they'll mail it in the playoffs like they obviously did on Saturday, they DESERVE to be purged.

htismaqe
01-08-2007, 07:02 PM
Damn I didn't even recognize that.

Saunders always used shifting and motion and try to trick the D.

Alright Herm and Solari need to be....well I can't really say it in public.

I heard Lenny Dawson say on 810 this mornign that all that motion and shifting was wasted energy...

BIG_DADDY
01-08-2007, 07:04 PM
I heard Lenny Dawson say on 810 this mornign that all that motion and shifting was wasted energy...

Yea it sisn't work for us at all the last few years.

Hammock Parties
01-08-2007, 07:05 PM
I heard Lenny Dawson say on 810 this mornign that all that motion and shifting was wasted energy...

Er...that's a little weird.

|Zach|
01-08-2007, 07:11 PM
I come here and get vagina laced into a few times a year.
Interesting.

NewChief
01-08-2007, 07:11 PM
I heard Lenny Dawson say on 810 this mornign that all that motion and shifting was wasted energy...

Was he talking about against zone defenses? My understanding (albeit limited and this may be well known) is that much of the motion and shifting is used to reveal the man-to-man coverage and expose good matchups for the QB prior to the snap. Against a team like Indy, who stay in zone and never play man, it's useless and a waste. Not sure I'd say it's a waste against other teams.

FringeNC
01-08-2007, 07:14 PM
This should not be confused with me taking Herm's side, but:

If they love Dick Vermeil so much that they'll mail it in the playoffs like they obviously did on Saturday, they DESERVE to be purged.

Who mailed it in? Gretz CLAIMED they did, but Gretz's claims and the reality of a situation rarely overlap.

The information ministry has determined it's better to throw the players under the bus than the coaches.

KCJohnny
01-08-2007, 07:25 PM
I heard Lenny Dawson say on 810 this mornign that all that motion and shifting was wasted energy...

It is if you do all that just to go run, run, pass punt.

ROYC75
01-09-2007, 08:29 AM
So much for the " I'm not no dummy, if it's not broke, why fix it " ? Why would I ? They have been doing alot of good things the past severa years here !l
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OK, Herm changed the way you call your playbook to fit the declining talent he had left on offense. He had to after the injury to Trent and the loss of Roaf and other injuries to the OL.

Will he draft back to fix that ? No, he will change the scheme, the style of play and make the players learn something different, something easier to learn for the young kids to pick up.

Don't expect too much in 2007 folks, the offense must learn a new scheme.

IMHO, with Herms and Solari's background, here comes the WC offense back to KC......

penguinz
01-09-2007, 09:37 AM
I heard Lenny Dawson say on 810 this mornign that all that motion and shifting was wasted energy...I agree. Defenses are much smarter and faster. The shifts do not confuse the players. All it does is waste time so that we do not have time do audible out of a play.

FAX
01-09-2007, 09:40 AM
Pre-snap shifting and motion was extremely useful when we were running on the edges and more play action. Created mismatches and unbalanced defenses. But, there's no point in worrying about that now. Just bring back the choir huddle and I'll forget about winning the superbowl.

At least show a little dignity before you run the ball.

FAX

KCTitus
01-09-2007, 09:43 AM
good idea...change the offense. Run LJ more...416 times was apparently not enough.

Hammock Parties
01-09-2007, 09:44 AM
I wonder if these changes include teaching the players how to block someone.

Honestly, I'm sitting here watching the game again and there was nothing wrong with the first two playcalls. They would have been successful if someone had EXECUTED.

The third down play was also a disaster. Black got bullrushed by Freeney right into Green's lap. Raheem Brock was also in Trent's face and he had to throw the ball sooner than he wanted.

BLOCK SOMEONE.

Baby Lee
01-09-2007, 10:07 AM
I wonder if these changes include teaching the players how to block someone.

Honestly, I'm sitting here watching the game again and there was nothing wrong with the first two playcalls. They would have been successful if someone had EXECUTED.

The third down play was also a disaster. Black got bullrushed by Freeney right into Green's lap. Raheem Brock was also in Trent's face and he had to throw the ball sooner than he wanted.

BLOCK SOMEONE.
Run, Run, Pass, Punt, dismantling greatest show on turf, Herm is the chessmaster and this is on his shoulders, reigning in the n00b Solari, the guys know success and Herm ain't it, you gotta get these guys to believe, it's the coach's job to inspire seasoned veterans, blah, blah, blah.

FAX
01-09-2007, 10:12 AM
Personally, I like the blocking idea, Mr. GoChiefs.

And, I am extremely impressed that anyone could review that game tape and keep down their breakfast muffin. Extremely impressed.

FAX

KCTitus
01-09-2007, 10:12 AM
Run, Run, Pass, Punt, dismantling greatest show on turf, Herm is the chessmaster and this is on his shoulders, reigning in the n00b Solari, the guys know success and Herm ain't it, you gotta get these guys to believe, it's the coach's job to inspire seasoned veterans, blah, blah, blah.

everybody knows defense wins championships...

cookster50
01-09-2007, 10:15 AM
Personally, I like the blocking idea, Mr. GoChiefs.

And, I am extremely impressed that anyone could review that game tape and keep down their breakfast muffin. Extremely impressed.

FAX
A real fan wouldn't be able to do that ;)

Hammock Parties
01-09-2007, 10:18 AM
Seriously. I'm 100% convinced if we get some football players in Kansas City that can BLOCK and CATCH...we'll be fine.

FringeNC
01-09-2007, 10:19 AM
I wonder if these changes include teaching the players how to block someone.

Honestly, I'm sitting here watching the game again and there was nothing wrong with the first two playcalls. They would have been successful if someone had EXECUTED.

The third down play was also a disaster. Black got bullrushed by Freeney right into Green's lap. Raheem Brock was also in Trent's face and he had to throw the ball sooner than he wanted.

BLOCK SOMEONE.

My guess is that Jordan Black knows how to block, he's just not very good at it. Execution is a funny thing. What are the inputs into execution? Effort, skill, coaching? Anything else? Ohio State didn't execute very well (to say the least) last night. How come? It seems to me execution is this black box. If a team doesn't execute well, doesn't that mean that effort, skill, or coaching sucked? To just say a team didn't execute is a meaningless statement, almost a tautology. So which input into execution was the cause of our debacle on Saturday?

FAX
01-09-2007, 10:19 AM
Seriously. I'm 100% convinced if we get some football players in Kansas City that can BLOCK and CATCH...we'll be fine.

And kick, Mr. GoChiefs. Once we get some players that can block, catch, and kick, we'll be fine.

FAX

FAX
01-09-2007, 10:22 AM
My guess is that Jordan Black knows how to block, he's just not very good at it. Execution is a funny thing. What are the inputs into execution? Effort, skill, coaching? Anything else? Ohio State didn't execute very well (to say the least) last night. How come? It seems to me execution is this black box. If a team doesn't execute well, doesn't that mean that effort, skill, or coaching sucked? To just say a team didn't execute is a meaningless statement, almost a tautology. So which input into execution was the cause of our debacle on Saturday?

Love, Mr. FringeNC. The missing ethereal ingredient is love.

Love and players that can block, catch, kick and make a decent coconut macaroon.

FAX

Hammock Parties
01-09-2007, 10:23 AM
To just say a team didn't execute is a meaningless statementy?

Really?

Willie Roaf used to execute just fine against Dwight Freeney.

Yet Jordan Black got abused. And Shields got abused by Booger McFarland all game long.

Pathetic.

The offensive line executed against Jacksonville. Maybe they need someone to knock the shit out of their quarterback every week.

KCTitus
01-09-2007, 10:23 AM
And kick, Mr. GoChiefs. Once we get some players that can block, catch, and kick, we'll be fine.

FAX

Kicking is a special teams issue, not offense. Of course, so is tackling.

About 3 years ago or so, KC had all the players it needed to catch, run, and block it needed, but not tackle...but I digress.

ROYC75
01-09-2007, 10:24 AM
Me thinks we need someone who can pass it and catch it...... No wait, we have him.......We have Huard.

ROYC75
01-09-2007, 10:26 AM
Do ya think the players bought into the media we were going to run it down there throats ?

Not a chance, we are just old and slow on the OL.

FAX
01-09-2007, 10:27 AM
Kicking is a special teams issue, not offense. Of course, so is tackling.

About 3 years ago or so, KC had all the players it needed to catch, run, and block it needed, but not tackle...but I digress.

You're right, of course, Mr. KCTitus. Kicking does fall into the category of special teams although the quick kick may, in fact, be an offensive play. I'd have to look that up. Nevertheless, I failed to recognize that we were limiting the subject to offense only. My error.

So, basically, we need players that can catch, run, block, pass, love each other and make a decent coconut macaroon and we'll be fine.

FAX

crazycoffey
01-09-2007, 10:28 AM
Ouch. Poor trooper. I've been ABN/AASLT most of my career. I don't like tanks. They're dangerous!


I was an MP for 5 years and did some reserves after active to finish up my IRR. Just finishing my degree (7years of night school - yuck) and putting together my warrent officer packet - CID not flight.

Did some air assualt training in the army, lots of fun. had more fun rappelling on a SWAT team in the Dallas area, not telling what department. but we did a few drills from the top of a 30 story hotel down to make an entrance from the balcony.

I miss those adrenaline rushes.

KS, huh, like watching people make little rocks out of big ones?

Chiefnj
01-09-2007, 10:29 AM
FAX,

Do you now understand the lament and warning of Jet fans? On paper making the playoffs 3 of 5 years looked good. I looked much better than what was going on in KC during that time period. But, as odd as it sounds, a Herm Edwards playoff appearance isn't always what it appears to be.

KCTitus
01-09-2007, 10:33 AM
So, basically, we need players that can catch, run, block, pass, love each other and make a decent coconut macaroon and we'll be fine.

FAX

We're really making some progress here...we should have this nailed down come the end of June just in time for Camp! I think the real issue is how we weight these abilities. Im thinking the macaroon needs to be #2 or #3...of course that's probably a weeks worth of debate.

FAX
01-09-2007, 10:43 AM
FAX,

Do you now understand the lament and warning of Jet fans? On paper making the playoffs 3 of 5 years looked good. I looked much better than what was going on in KC during that time period. But, as odd as it sounds, a Herm Edwards playoff appearance isn't always what it appears to be.

I honestly didn't pay any attention whatsoever to what the Jetski's were saying on the Planet, Mr. Chiefnj. Generally, I try to make up my own mind about things based on what I see. Unless, of course, Mr. htismaqe or Mr. Baby Lee tell me what to think about stuff.

In the early going, I was supportive of Herm. Very supportive. I no longer believe that he is head coaching material. So far, this team reminds me more of Gunther's effort than Marty's except Gunther was not such a skilled liar. I hope and pray and wish upon a star and call upon the aid of all angels to prove me wrong. But, at this point, he gets credit from me for a pretty good draft and that's about it which makes me concerned for his ability to pull this thing off going forward.

I can tell you this, though. I've never felt this badly about the Chiefs' prospects. Ever. The franchise just looks like a PR machine to me.

FAX

FringeNC
01-09-2007, 10:44 AM
Really?

Willie Roaf used to execute just fine against Dwight Freeney.

Yet Jordan Black got abused. And Shields got abused by Booger McFarland all game long.



Might Willie's talent had something to do with that, along with Solari being Oline coach instead of OC? Or does Jordan Black suck because he's a lazy no-good, DV-gangbang bum?

As in my original post, I contend execution is a function of talent, effort, and coaching. We in the anti-Herm crowd choose coaching and to a lesser extent, ability or lack thereof, as the cause of Saturday's nightmare. You in the pro-Herm crowd choose either effort and/or ability.

Maybe the middle ground position of it's all ability is right. Maybe it is all just because Jordan Black (and a few others) suck, but I am skeptical.

Hammock Parties
01-09-2007, 10:47 AM
Hey, it's clear Jordan doesn't have the talent. But there's something fishy going on when Brian Waters and Will Shields go out and knock heads with Marcus Stroud and John Henderson and win one week, then lose the battle the next against Booger McFarland and Raheem friggin' Brock. Was it really that loud?

The Colts defensive line looked twice as motivated as our offensive line. PATHETIC.

crazycoffey
01-09-2007, 10:52 AM
Maybe the middle ground position of it's all ability is right. Maybe it is all just because Jordan Black (and a few others) suck, but I am skeptical.


Nah, your right, middle ground sucks.

The O-line ate a big sh*t sandwich this year. Willie retires = deflated Morale + age and Injury = less morale and less confidence. some people moved around from the right side to the left, this makes a difference too and put it all together, the O is our weak leak, was once our strongest link and now is our weakest. Weaker than DT, WR, MLB, QB, FB.


In conclusion, be skeptical.

Baby Lee
01-09-2007, 10:55 AM
Unless, of course, Mr. htismaqe or Mr. Baby Lee tell me what to think about stuff.
Is there a reason for this newfound snark?

Generalized Malaise?
Restless Leg Syndrome?
Urine soaked toasted corn breakfast cereal products?

FAX
01-09-2007, 11:02 AM
Is there a reason for this newfound snark?

Generalized Malaise?
Restless Leg Syndrome?
Urine soaked toasted corn breakfast cereal products?

I'm unsure. I may well have had a mild stroke during the second quarter, Mr. Baby Lee.

Actually, and as I'm sure you already know, I hold your opinions in the highest possible regard. Especially your views on the use of spectroscopy to determine the chemical composition of star systems which I have found to be both enlightening and inspirational.

FAX

Baby Lee
01-09-2007, 11:05 AM
Actually, and as I'm sure you already know, I hold your opinions in the highest possible regard. Especially your views on the use of spectroscopy to determine the chemical composition of star systems which I have found to be both enlightening and inspirational.

FAX
FTR - just so everyone is aware, the use of spectroscopy is just as effective in determining the chemical composition of star systems that Fax expressly doesn't find enlightening and inspirational, or star systems he is outright indifferent towards.

crazycoffey
01-09-2007, 11:07 AM
Not to talk political, but brief change of topic, to world news, just long enough to say, Hell yes!

Somali official: U.S. strikes al Qaeda suspects (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa/01/09/somalia.strike.ap/index.html)

U.S. helicopter gunships today attacked suspected al Qaeda terrorists hiding in Somalia, a Somali official said. The operation came a day after U.S. Special Operations forces launched at least two air attacks against suspected al Qaeda members

NewChief
01-09-2007, 11:07 AM
FTR - just so everyone is aware, the use of spectroscopy is just as effective in determining the chemical composition of star systems that Fax expressly doesn't find enlightening and inspirational, or star systems he is outright indifferent towards.

Dangling modifier humor: guaranteed to bring the house down every time.

EM31
01-09-2007, 12:25 PM
Not to talk political, but brief change of topic, to world news, just long enough to say, Hell yes!

Somali official: U.S. strikes al Qaeda suspects (http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/africa/01/09/somalia.strike.ap/index.html)

U.S. helicopter gunships today attacked suspected al Qaeda terrorists hiding in Somalia, a Somali official said. The operation came a day after U.S. Special Operations forces launched at least two air attacks against suspected al Qaeda members
"At least two" air attacks eh? I think we can pretty much rule out certain coaches as having had input into THAT gameplan then.