PDA

View Full Version : Strong words from Jon Rand...


shaneo69
01-09-2007, 09:57 AM
RAND: Loss answers key questions
Jan 09, 2007, 1:11:08 AM by Jonathan Rand


A lot of folks would tell you it was a waste of time for the Chiefs to make the playoffs. If they couldn’t achieve more than a 23-8 loss at Indianapolis, you might say, they could have just as well stayed home and spared their fans an afternoon of screaming at their television sets.

Fact is, that playoff game was tremendously important to the Chiefs because it answered vital questions that otherwise would’ve been left hanging during the off-season. Before the playoffs, many of the answers to these questions were still maybes.

But that lopsided loss to the Colts provided unequivocal answers that should give the entire organization a clearer direction than if the season ended with the closing-day victory over the Jaguars.

It’s already been pointed out that the Chiefs’ offense was exposed Saturday much as their defense was exposed by a 38-31 home playoff loss against the Colts three years ago. Before that game, it was debatable whether the real Chiefs’ defense was the one that performed respectably during a 9-0 start or the one that faltered down the stretch.

Before that game, you might’ve argued that maybe the Chiefs’ defense wasn’t really that far away from being a top 10 unit. A dismal performance against the Colts, who never even punted, made it clear that the Chiefs’ defense needed an overhaul, not a tweaking.

The outlook for the Chiefs’ offense was similarly muddled before Saturday. You might’ve said the offense was still respectable and maybe not that far away from resembling its old league-leading self. Maybe the line could excel again with just one key addition. Maybe the Chiefs could continue to get by with the same wide receivers. Maybe Trent Green could become a Pro Bowl quarterback once again.

Sadly for the Chiefs, we now know their offense needs an overhaul just as badly as their defense needed one three years ago. This is not a case of overreacting to one loss. It’s a case of one big game tipping the scales on some difficult decisions. In post-season play, every team’s weaknesses become mercilessly exposed.

It said in this space two weeks ago that due to extenuating circumstances this season, Green deserved the benefit of the doubt before the Chiefs went looking for another quarterback. But then he had a three-turnover game against the Jaguars.

If Green was going to establish that he hasn’t lost his touch, Saturday was the time for him to step up in a big game. Instead, he had another three-turnover game and couldn’t lead the offense to a first down for nearly three quarters. Green made it painfully clear – statistically and visually – that he’s reached the end of the line.

But as was the case with the defense three years ago, this offense isn’t just one key player away from a revival. Every area on the offense except running back and tight end, assuming Tony Gonzalez can work out a new contract, needs help.

The loss also will force coach Herm Edwards’ to re-evaluate his initial premise that the offense was the strength of his team and could be turned into a ball control monster that would help out the defense. At the end, the Chiefs’ offense couldn’t pass or run effectively and, ironically, compromised the defense instead of boosting it.

As we learned after Dick Vermeil left, several defensive players felt – fairly or not — that they were mere accessories for a head coach preoccupied with his high-powered offense. Edwards needs to make sure his offensive players aren’t adopting that mindset. Clearly, his offense needs more talent, commitment and imagination to become a force again.

Perhaps the most disturbing parallel between the Chiefs’ playoff losses three years apart is that, as completely as the 2003 defense collapsed, the Chiefs needed three years and a coaching change to fix it – and it’s not completely fixed yet. Edwards clearly can’t afford to wait three years to get his offense cooking.

Edwards kept saying late in the season that he knew so much more about his team than when he was hired last winter. On Saturday, he might’ve learned more than he really wanted to know. But what he saw can only help him improve the Chiefs next season.

The opinions offered in this column do not necessarily reflect those of the Kansas City Chiefs.


http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2007/01/09/rand_loss_answers_key_questions/

Brock
01-09-2007, 10:00 AM
Unbelievable. They really are going to throw Green under the bus to protect Solari.

jAZ
01-09-2007, 10:01 AM
Unbelievable. They really are going to throw Green under the bus to protect (Herm's Handcuff's on the offense).

HonestChieffan
01-09-2007, 10:01 AM
What scare me is that Herm has no clue HOW TO BUILD AN OFFENCE!!!

If you buy into he came here under the assumption all he needed to do was get the D fixed...

And If you buy into Carl knew he was a D guy and that the O would manage well on its own...

Then Carl hired the right guy for the assumptions but the assumptions are now clearly wrong...

We have a nincumpoop Headcoach trying to fix something he aint good at fixing and has a helper in Solari who is even less qualified.

FAX
01-09-2007, 10:02 AM
Unbelievable. They really are going to throw Green under the bus to protect Solari.

Yep.

FAX

Brock
01-09-2007, 10:02 AM
(in response to jaz's quote)

Perhaps. But I'd rather be fired for insubordination than look like a fool on a national stage.

HonestChieffan
01-09-2007, 10:04 AM
(in response to jaz's quote)

Perhaps. But I'd rather be fired for insubordination than look like a fool on a national stage.

in responce to Brock's quote


To late, this is national.


Oh lighten up, it was to easy to pass up.

Brock
01-09-2007, 10:05 AM
in responce to Brock's quote


To late, this is national.


Oh lighten up, it was to easy to pass up.

No argument there.

shaneo69
01-09-2007, 10:07 AM
(in response to jaz's quote)

Perhaps. But I'd rather be fired for insubordination than look like a fool on a national stage.

Solari probably shoulda walked out when Herm publicly flogged him for going for points instead of taking a knee at the end of the half during the pre-season game.

KC Kings
01-09-2007, 10:11 AM
Did Trent make Tony G drop 2 passes? Did Trent make Kennison drop 2 passes? Did Trent make the ball fly threw Hall's hands, and bounce to the ground after hitting him in the chest?

The Chief's biggest threat was the running game. The Colt's went out there and concentrated on stopping the run, and forced us to pass. I am not saying that the play calling was flawless, or that our O-line is anything but average at best, or that I want to have Tren't babies, but you can not put this loss all on Trent. When the receivers drop passes you don't establish a passing game, and it is easy for a defense to excel when you are playing a one dimensional offense.

FAX
01-09-2007, 10:16 AM
Carl is one heartless bastard.

If he was a star system, I wouldn't give a damn about him.

FAX

HonestChieffan
01-09-2007, 10:17 AM
Did Trent make Tony G drop 2 passes? Did Trent make Kennison drop 2 passes? Did Trent make the ball fly threw Hall's hands, and bounce to the ground after hitting him in the chest?

The Chief's biggest threat was the running game. The Colt's went out there and concentrated on stopping the run, and forced us to pass. I am not saying that the play calling was flawless, or that our O-line is anything but average at best, or that I want to have Tren't babies, but you can not put this loss all on Trent. When the receivers drop passes you don't establish a passing game, and it is easy for a defense to excel when you are playing a one dimensional offense.


Yes. Are you the only person on earth who didnt see that? God man, watch the game. Its Trent Trent Trent. All freaking Trent. The O line didnt drop a pass or throw the ball so leave them alone. On sunny days I prefer light colored baits.

Reerun_KC
01-09-2007, 10:17 AM
I cant wait until LJ holds out demands a trade! That will be a thing of beauty!

Mr. Laz
01-09-2007, 10:18 AM
Unbelievable. They really are going to throw Green under the bus to protect Solari.
Unbelievable. They really are going to throw Green under the bus to protect Solari.
Yep.

FAXUnbelievable. They really are going to throw Green under the bus to protect Solari.

Iowanian
01-09-2007, 10:20 AM
Trent did throw passes at the feet of, behind and out of reach of WRs and Rbs in the preseason, before he was hurt week 1, and every game since his return.

I've been a supporter, but he's just not looking like he's got it any longer. I will never question his character, heart, or respectability, but I think he'll never be the same after that hit....especially at his age.

Alot of players fans don't want to see go, need to go.

InChiefsHell
01-09-2007, 10:24 AM
Trent did throw passes at the feet of, behind and out of reach of WRs and Rbs in the preseason, before he was hurt week 1, and every game since his return.

I've been a supporter, but he's just not looking like he's got it any longer. I will never question his character, heart, or respectability, but I think he'll never be the same after that hit....especially at his age.

Alot of players fans don't want to see go, need to go.

Yep. It's hard to say goodbye to a player who is a quality individual and all, but it is time to go. I hope he retires and then stays on as a QB coach for Croyle or something.

FAX
01-09-2007, 10:26 AM
So the FO sells him out on the internet, Mr. Iowanian? Builds consensus that he sucks through their media outlets?

There's a special place in hell for people like that. It's a place of endless fire and nameless fear where countless thousands of raider fans in bizarre costumes and with stale breath and hollow eyes eat at your butt cheeks, then you grow more butt cheeks, then they eat at them some more for all eternity and stuff.

FAX

HemiEd
01-09-2007, 10:26 AM
Carl is one heartless bastard.

If he was a star system, I wouldn't give a damn about him.

FAX

That is usually a good trait in business, if you want to make money.

Fairplay
01-09-2007, 10:28 AM
Unbelievable. They really are going to throw Green under the bus to protect Solari.



Short bus or standard?

FringeNC
01-09-2007, 10:29 AM
Carl is one heartless bastard.

If he was a star system, I wouldn't give a damn about him.

FAX

Trent is Carl's favorite player. Vermeil was Carl's favorite coach and supposed best friend. That he would so readily throw his buddies under the bus to deflect criticism to his new 5-year plan speaks volumes about the guy. The guy would do anything to win a championship, he just doesn't have the necessities.

HonestChieffan
01-09-2007, 10:30 AM
That summed it up for me.

Mr. Laz
01-09-2007, 10:35 AM
So the FO sells him out on the internet, Mr. Iowanian? Builds consensus that he sucks through their media outlets?

There's a special place in hell for people like that. It's a place of endless fire and nameless fear where countless thousands of raider fans in bizarre costumes and with stale breath and hollow eyes eat at your butt cheeks, then you grow more butt cheeks, then they eat at them some more for all eternity and stuff.

FAX
goes along with my thoughts that Herm actually looked happy when Trent Green got hurt because it gave Edwards an excuse to "simplify" the offense.


i look at it this way .... think of baseball, with starting pitchers and relief pitchers.

A starting pitcher is good for a long time ... but might be slow at first

A relief pitcher needs to be great with the first pitch ... but won't need to throw many of them.


Trent Green is a starting pitcher ... he starts slow and needs alot of work to stay in his groove.

Damon Huard seems to be more of a relief pitcher. He doesn't need much warm up or work ... and he can throw strikes right out of the box. But how good is he long term? i would think he would of gotten a starting job a long time ago if he was good for the long term.


Herman Edwards is looking for a relief pitcher ... he wants a QB that can hand the ball off 10 times in arow but then still throw a 20 yard strike.

Green isn't that guy and i imagine that Herman Edwards really would prefer to see him gone. Althought he won't say so publicly.

FringeNC
01-09-2007, 10:35 AM
That is usually a good trait in business, if you want to make money.

If the NFL was run like a typical business, Carl would have been shit-canned long ago.

FAX
01-09-2007, 10:39 AM
Great analogy, Mr. Laz. The posting equivalent of a 80 yard touchdown pass to win in overtime.

I bow to your brain function.

FAX

Hydrae
01-09-2007, 10:40 AM
Did Trent make Tony G drop 2 passes? Did Trent make Kennison drop 2 passes? Did Trent make the ball fly threw Hall's hands, and bounce to the ground after hitting him in the chest?

The Chief's biggest threat was the running game. The Colt's went out there and concentrated on stopping the run, and forced us to pass. I am not saying that the play calling was flawless, or that our O-line is anything but average at best, or that I want to have Tren't babies, but you can not put this loss all on Trent. When the receivers drop passes you don't establish a passing game, and it is easy for a defense to excel when you are playing a one dimensional offense.

(In response to the bolded above)

Yes, that one was totally Trent's fault. He was less than 5 yards away and threw a fast ball when a lob would have been fine. I said it at the time, Trent blew that throw.

Now the other drops (Eddie, grrr) were just that, drops. At the same time I will point out that the first two third down drops by Kennison would probably not have gotten a first down anyway as he wasn't even past the sticks! :cuss:

Cochise
01-09-2007, 10:41 AM
Man, if only Trent would have just not dropped those 5 passes, could have blocked Dwight Freeney, and played all the other positions on the line. He just didn't get the job done. :rolleyes:

FringeNC
01-09-2007, 10:41 AM
So the FO sells him out on the internet, Mr. Iowanian? Builds consensus that he sucks through their media outlets?

There's a special place in hell for people like that. It's a place of endless fire and nameless fear where countless thousands of raider fans in bizarre costumes and with stale breath and hollow eyes eat at your butt cheeks, then you grow more butt cheeks, then they eat at them some more for all eternity and stuff.

FAX

I think your remarks that the organization is nothing but a PR machine is spot-on. Carl and Herm are running around frantically, trying to deflect blame, throwing people under the bus. Those two are made for one another.

Mr. Laz
01-09-2007, 10:42 AM
Man, if only Trent would have just not dropped those 5 passes, could have blocked Dwight Freeney, and played all the other positions on the line. He just didn't get the job done. :rolleyes:
the man can't throw it and catch it too

Brock
01-09-2007, 10:42 AM
(In response to the bolded above)

Yes, that one was totally Trent's fault. He was less than 5 yards away and threw a fast ball when a lob would have been fine. I said it at the time, Trent blew that throw.


Green was running for his life. If the ball is catchable, it's catchable.

HemiEd
01-09-2007, 10:42 AM
If the NFL was run like a typical business, Carl would have been shit-canned long ago.

You are kidding right? He has the stadium sold out every year, he has good product that people keep buying. The Chiefs are normally well under the cap, what better job could he do?

Are you talking about winning it all to keep his job? We always have next year. We have the dream and fan loyalty. Carl is doing a fine job running the Chiefs like a business.

Cochise
01-09-2007, 10:43 AM
Yes, that one was totally Trent's fault. He was less than 5 yards away and threw a fast ball when a lob would have been fine. I said it at the time, Trent blew that throw.

Eddie Kennison is a professional wide receiver. He made what, $2 million this year? Are we not entitled to expect a guy who is paid $2 million a year to catch a ball that hit him in the HANDS?

But Trent threw it too hard! :deevee: You know, they used to say that Brett Favre threw balls so hard even in practice that the receivers were afraid he was going to break their fingers. But he still completed plenty of passes.

That is on Kennison.

Hydrae
01-09-2007, 10:45 AM
Eddie Kennison is a professional wide receiver. He made what, $2 million this year? Are we not entitled to expect a guy who is paid $2 million a year to catch a ball that hit him in the HANDS?


Not at that speed from that close. Trent whipped that ball in from just a couple feet away, by the time Dante could react to it, it was through his hands, off his chest and half way to the ground.

FringeNC
01-09-2007, 10:46 AM
You are kidding right? He has the stadium sold out every year, he has good product that people keep buying. The Chiefs are normally well under the cap, what better job could he do?

Are you talking about winning it all to keep his job? We always have next year. We have the dream and fan loyalty. Carl is doing a fine job running the Chiefs like a business.

Not kidding at all. If these guys want a good return, put their money in the stock market. These guys buy pro sports teams, at least most of them, because they want glory. You think Daniel Snyder would have kept Peterson this long? The only reason Peterson is still around is Hunt's gratitude towards Peterson for lifting the organization from the depths of the 80s.

And by the way, virtually all NFL games sellout.

Edit: Success in the NFL is measured by championships. Revenues are shared, and home games sellout anyway. What I meant like a real business was some degree of accountibility. There is no accountability for Peterson.

Hydrae
01-09-2007, 10:46 AM
But that is only the one pass that I felt was specifically on Tent for how he threw it. The rest were receivers being stupid and looking to run before getting the ball, hearing footsteps, whatever their problems were.

Chiefnj
01-09-2007, 10:49 AM
Not at that speed from that close. Trent whipped that ball in from just a couple feet away, by the time Dante could react to it, it was through his hands, off his chest and half way to the ground.

Trent was running for his life and wanted to get the ball out as quickly as possible. For all he knew he was going to get hit immediately, just like he got hit on almost every passing play.

Dante should have been able to catch the ball even if it was a "hard" throw.

Pitt Gorilla
01-09-2007, 10:52 AM
The Indy loss falls squarely on the offensive line, with Carl, Herm, Solari, and the "receivers" right behind them.

Iowanian
01-09-2007, 10:53 AM
My judgements of green's play haven't been when he was being crushed by DEs via Hwy 65, my opinions weren't formed on his play when wrs, rbs and tes were dropping passes.

I've watched Trent misfire on EASY swing passes and short throws to the feet of wide open recievers from Preseason to now. If he had looked sharp at ANY POINT consistantly this season, I'd whistle a different tune.

I think he's been a great Chief and I like the guy as a player and citizen. If the Chiefs were 1-2 players from contending, I'd probably say give him a chance, but as it is, the Chiefs need to rebuild and change about 20 players on the team.

HemiEd
01-09-2007, 10:55 AM
Not kidding at all. If these guys want a good return, put their money in the stock market. These guys buy pro sports teams, at least most of them, because they want glory. You think Daniel Snyder would have kept Peterson this long? The only reason Peterson is still around is Hunt's gratitude towards Peterson for lifting the organization from the depths of the 80s.

And by the way, virtually all NFL games sellout.

Edit: Success in the NFL is measured by championships. Revenues are shared, and home games sellout anyway. What I meant like a real business was some degree of accountibility. There is no accountability for Peterson.

I could not agree with you less. Dan Snyder is not the norm, him or Jerry Jones. Dan Snyder came on his money very easy, he is in it for his ego, not to make money.

Bottom line, Carl makes money for the Chiefs and has since he got here. Were you around before he came? The Chiefs were not selling out. Tell Al Davis about all NFL games selling out.

Baby Lee
01-09-2007, 10:57 AM
Great analogy, Mr. Laz. The posting equivalent of a 80 yard touchdown pass to win in overtime.

I bow to your brain function.

FAX
I too appreciate him for telling me how to think.

KCTitus
01-09-2007, 10:57 AM
When Green played like Steve Bono in the Raiders game, I realized his time was done.

HemiEd
01-09-2007, 10:58 AM
The Indy loss falls squarely on the offensive line, with Carl, Herm, Solari, and the "receivers" right behind them.

Yep, Waters stepping on Trents foot was an indicator.

Brock
01-09-2007, 10:58 AM
Bottom line, Carl makes money for the Chiefs and has since he got here. Were you around before he came? The Chiefs were not selling out. Tell Al Davis about all NFL games selling out.

If you want to make the argument that Peterson deserves credit for hiring Schottenheimer, I agree with you. But Marty was what made this team competitive again and sellouts naturally followed that.

Douche Baggins
01-09-2007, 10:58 AM
If you ask me it's all on Dante. He tried to run before he had it.
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/9026/dantedroplo7.gif (http://imageshack.us)

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4782/dantedrop2gi7.gif (http://imageshack.us)

KCTitus
01-09-2007, 10:59 AM
Not kidding at all. If these guys want a good return, put their money in the stock market. These guys buy pro sports teams, at least most of them, because they want glory. You think Daniel Snyder would have kept Peterson this long? The only reason Peterson is still around is Hunt's gratitude towards Peterson for lifting the organization from the depths of the 80s.

And by the way, virtually all NFL games sellout.

Edit: Success in the NFL is measured by championships. Revenues are shared, and home games sellout anyway. What I meant like a real business was some degree of accountibility. There is no accountability for Peterson.

Dan Snyder is not someone we need to hold up as the model KC should aspire. For all the changes in the front office and personnel, they've not managed to do any better than KC and quite frankly even worse.

Washington was 5-11 last year.

Mr. Laz
01-09-2007, 11:01 AM
I too appreciate him for telling me how to think.
except for i wasn't telling you how to think ... i was sharing how "i thought"

thus the comment of "I look at it this way ..."



but hey ... thanks for being a pissy bitch :thumb:

Fish
01-09-2007, 11:01 AM
If you ask me it's all on Dante. He tried to run before he had it. There was a defender there, too. If Trent floats it, INT!!!

Looking at that, it should have been caught. Dante has always frustrated me with the way he catches with his body instead of his hands..... prime example...

Baby Lee
01-09-2007, 11:02 AM
except for i wasn't telling you how to think ... i was sharing how "i thought"

thus the comment of "I look at it this way ..."



but hey ... thanks for being a pissy bitch :thumb:
<--- Laz - - - cross thread humor --->

I honestly didn't pay any attention whatsoever to what the Jetski's were saying on the Planet, Mr. Chiefnj. Generally, I try to make up my own mind about things based on what I see. Unless, of course, Mr. htismaqe or Mr. Baby Lee tell me what to think about stuff.

Brock
01-09-2007, 11:04 AM
If you ask me it's all on Dante. He tried to run before he had it.
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/9026/dantedroplo7.gif (http://imageshack.us)

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4782/dantedrop2gi7.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Truly embarrassing.

Mr. Laz
01-09-2007, 11:04 AM
If you ask me it's all on Dante. He tried to run before he had it.
it was ...

Does Green tend to throw a "spike ball" when he's on the move? Yes.


Should Dante of made that catch? Absolutely.


Dante has been playing scared for a couple of years now ... he want to turn up field, gain some yards and get out-of-bounds before he got hit.

Hydrae
01-09-2007, 11:05 AM
If you ask me it's all on Dante. He tried to run before he had it.


Seeing it in slow motion, I will agree with you. At the time I put it on Trent.

Mr. Laz
01-09-2007, 11:06 AM
<--- Laz - - - cross thread humor --->
:banghead:

hard to get the cross thread humor when you didn't read the other thread.


my bad :wayne:

FringeNC
01-09-2007, 11:06 AM
Originally Posted by Brock
Unbelievable. They really are going to throw Green under the bus to protect Solari.

Quote:Originally Posted by jAZ
Unbelievable. They really are going to throw Green under the bus to protect Solari.

Quote:Originally Posted by FAX
Yep.

FAX

Quote:Originally Posted by Laz
Unbelievable. They really are going to throw Green under the bus to protect Solari.

I don't know. I have very little anger towards Solari. Do you really think this is Solari's game-plan or Herm's? Do you really think Solari had the autonomy that Saunders had under Vermeil? Green is being thrown under the bus for two reasons: to deflect blame from Herm and as sort of a symbolic sacrifice of the Vermeil era. Herm doesn't want to hear how he's ****ed up the offense...and if the general is gone...

Warrior5
01-09-2007, 11:07 AM
You can continue arguing about whether it's Trent, the O-line, Solari, Herm, or a combo of the four; the main point in Rand's article is spot on.

Had we ended the season with the Jax win, the mindset probably would've been, "just a player or two away". Again, one of the many reasons I'm glad the Chiefs squeaked in, was that this mindset won't fly now.

The offense needs fixin' in many ways, and it's going to take more than one off-season to do it.

Brock
01-09-2007, 11:08 AM
I don't know. I have very little anger towards Solari. Do you really think this is Solari's game-plan or Herm's? Do you really think Solari had the autonomy that Saunders had under Vermeil? Green is being thrown under the bus for two reasons: to deflect blame from Herm and as sort of a symbolic sacrifice of the Vermeil era. Herm doesn't want to hear how he's ****ed up the offense...and if the general is gone...

I have no idea. I do know (again) that I'd rather be fired than have it thought that I was responsible for that display of ineptitude. If Solari isn't the one who came up with that abortion, he should just say so.

FringeNC
01-09-2007, 11:10 AM
Dan Snyder is not someone we need to hold up as the model KC should aspire. For all the changes in the front office and personnel, they've not managed to do any better than KC and quite frankly even worse.

Washington was 5-11 last year.

Washington's GM has sucked, no doubt -- whoever he is. Do you think Dan Snyder would be a shitty owner if he had Scott Pioli in charge?

My guess is that Washington will win a SB before we do...

Baby Lee
01-09-2007, 11:12 AM
date: 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007
Washington's GM has sucked, no doubt -- whoever he is. Do you think Dan Snyder would be a shitty owner if he had Scott Pioli in charge?

My guess is that Washington will win a SB before we do...

Mr. Laz
01-09-2007, 11:12 AM
I don't know. I have very little anger towards Solari. Do you really think this is Solari's game-plan or Herm's? Do you really think Solari had the autonomy that Saunders had under Vermeil? Green is being thrown under the bus for two reasons: to deflect blame from Herm and as sort of a symbolic sacrifice of the Vermeil era. Herm doesn't want to hear how he's ****ed up the offense...and if the general is gone...
impossible to tell who is responsible ... so i prefer to just treat Herm/solari has one in the same.


my main point was that this offensive debacle wasn't Green's fault.



bottomline is that Herm is ultimately responsible for the gameplan on both sides of the ball. If he didn't want Solari to run this offense he should of told him not to.

crazycoffey
01-09-2007, 11:12 AM
If you ask me it's all on Dante. He tried to run before he had it.
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/9026/dantedroplo7.gif (http://imageshack.us)

http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4782/dantedrop2gi7.gif (http://imageshack.us)


That's how I see it too. That wasn't trents fault.

FAX
01-09-2007, 11:13 AM
I feel like I'm in a submarine and Carl's entire fleet is dropping depth charges.

In those circumstances, all one can do is belt out a heartfelt rendition of your favorite drinking song and hope. Lord knows, pissy bitches make good altos.

FAX

CosmicPal
01-09-2007, 11:14 AM
Great article. Clear, and straight to the point.

The worst thing about this loss is not only the exposure, but the fact that our entire offense needs a complete overhaul. We're not talking about taking the car in for a simple oil change here either, we're talking about a new transmission and everything.

Let's look at the facts:

New WR's. Kennison may have one year left. Parker is a waste. Two possible new starters.

New Center: Wiegmann is still cookin' but is getting up there in years as well.

New Guard: Shields is gone and needs to retire. Still has it, but not as dominant as he once used to be.

New TE: Possible. Really, really possible. I can't blame TG for wanting to go somewhere else.

New Tackles: TWO of 'em. We simply need two very good tackles to command the position.

New QB: Very likely. Green should retire. Please. Hang your hat.

That's damn near the entire offense.

And the defense still needs some additions. Particularly at the defensive tackles.

A speedy linebacker who will put the fear of god into TE's and RBs. Bell couldn't accomplish this. He's gone.

We need to groom a couple of young DB's too.

Good lord, it's going to be a long three, four, five, six...years.

KCTitus
01-09-2007, 11:15 AM
Washington's GM has sucked, no doubt -- whoever he is. Do you think Dan Snyder would be a shitty owner if he had Scott Pioli in charge?

My guess is that Washington will win a SB before we do...

Yes, I think he is 'shitty' owner and no one will be 'in charge' except for Snyder. There is no GM in Washington...Gibbs is the guy that makes the talent choices.

Your guess is probably right...they are the richest team in the NFL and money will eventually buy the right talent--fortunately, a team is more than just a collection of talent and I think we all realize that.

Let's look at it this way...Snyder sucks even having the most money to spend. Imagine how much worse he would be if he had 25% of the money to spend--meaning put Snyder in KC and the problems are exponential.

headsnap
01-09-2007, 11:23 AM
You can continue arguing about whether it's Trent, the O-line, Solari, Herm, or a combo of the four; the main point in Rand's article is spot on.



I also blame the white clown pants...
:)

jjjayb
01-09-2007, 11:41 AM
(In response to the bolded above)

Yes, that one was totally Trent's fault. He was less than 5 yards away and threw a fast ball when a lob would have been fine. I said it at the time, Trent blew that throw.

Now the other drops (Eddie, grrr) were just that, drops. At the same time I will point out that the first two third down drops by Kennison would probably not have gotten a first down anyway as he wasn't even past the sticks! :cuss:

The ball wasn't thrown too fast. The only reason Dante dropped it was because he tried to turn and run before he caught the ball. Go look at it again.

penguinz
01-09-2007, 11:55 AM
Trent was a good QB but his time is up. Just look at all the swing passes and screens that were at the receivers feet since he came back from the the brain scrambling.

Mecca
01-09-2007, 12:29 PM
Pretty much everyone involved with the offense should be thrown under the bus.....save a few guys.

I enjoy how Eddie Kennison spent all offseason bitching that he was a #1 reciever and how much money he makes.....**** you Kennison you suck.

scott free
01-09-2007, 12:49 PM
Great article. Clear, and straight to the point.

The worst thing about this loss is not only the exposure, but the fact that our entire offense needs a complete overhaul. We're not talking about taking the car in for a simple oil change here either, we're talking about a new transmission and everything.

Let's look at the facts:

New WR's. Kennison may have one year left. Parker is a waste. Two possible new starters.

New Center: Wiegmann is still cookin' but is getting up there in years as well.

New Guard: Shields is gone and needs to retire. Still has it, but not as dominant as he once used to be.

New TE: Possible. Really, really possible. I can't blame TG for wanting to go somewhere else.

New Tackles: TWO of 'em. We simply need two very good tackles to command the position.

New QB: Very likely. Green should retire. Please. Hang your hat.

That's damn near the entire offense.

And the defense still needs some additions. Particularly at the defensive tackles.

A speedy linebacker who will put the fear of god into TE's and RBs. Bell couldn't accomplish this. He's gone.

We need to groom a couple of young DB's too.

Good lord, it's going to be a long three, four, five, six...years.


WR - I believe we really only need 1 true gamebreaker, theres plenty of 2,3 & 4 types already here.

C - I think Casey could go 1 more year, if not we have a couple of guys in the wings who have been in the system atleast a year.

G - Will may well retire, if he doesnt i say GREAT. I watched him manhandle guys all night long against Jax.

TE - If Tony goes a serviceable guy will have to be found, Dunn is what he is & Wilson needs to keep his 6'1 ass at FB. Dont forsake us Tony!!!

OT's - In limited duty, Terry looked quick & athletic, i'm counting on him as the future there. Another year in the system should do it. We can all agree that an upgrade at LT is unavoidable.

QB - I'm counting on a off-season of rest to put some spring back in Trents step, if it doesnt happen Huard gets the call until Brody's ready.

D - This puzzle CAN be completed in 1 offseason IMO, 1 High-Motor Hammer of a DT & maybe another Safety if Pollard goes to OLB. If Pollard stays put at S, then how 'bout a guy like Donnie Edwards in at OLB.

The D is VERY close IMHO.

InChiefsHell
01-09-2007, 12:55 PM
Yeah, I'd say none of the offensive players did much this year to shine up their resumes, especially Eddie. Gonzo, LJ and maybe Waters, but I can't think of any of our starters that made a really strong case to be retained. Wilson looks like he may pan out to be a decent player. Other than that, I got nuthin...

Pitt Gorilla
01-09-2007, 01:05 PM
That's how I see it too. That wasn't trents fault.I'm not sure there was ever any question that Dante should have caught the ball; he dropped a perfectly catchable pass.

Mr. Laz
01-09-2007, 01:44 PM
I'm not sure there was ever any question that Dante should have caught the ball; he dropped a perfectly catchable pass.
yep ... i also wonder how many of those bad swing passes were because Larry Johnson didn't feel like running a pass route.


i've been as critical of Trent Green in the past as anyone ... hell i reached "Mecca level" at one point. But offensive players tend to struggle under a Mart ...err Herman type offensive system.

the offensive lineman struggle to make blocks because the defense knows where they are going.

when the offensive line can't block ... the entire offense struggles

the running back can't find running lanes

the QB gets nervous about protection and starts to stuggle.



the whole freaking offense falls apart.


the quickest way to kill an offense is to make it predictable.

FAX
01-09-2007, 02:01 PM
Great post, Mr. Laz. Spot on, as they say in the UK.

Where do you come up with this stuff? Is Mr. Baby Lee your thread consultant?

FAX

Mr. Laz
01-09-2007, 02:04 PM
Great post, Mr. Laz. Spot on, as they say in the UK.

Where do you come up with this stuff? Is Mr. Baby Lee your thread consultant?

FAX
Why Thank you, Mr. Fax. :)

I do need a thread consultant of some kind.





what's the dealio with you and BL? LMAO

NewChief
01-09-2007, 02:06 PM
what's the dealio with you and BL? LMAO

I'm not sure either, but it's been one of the more entertaining subthreads on the Planet today.

Baby Lee
01-09-2007, 02:09 PM
I'm not sure either, but it's been one of the more entertaining subthreads on the Planet today.
Evidently solid reasoning has been reclassified as a strongarm tactic. ;)

And it appears that he holds me responsible for the out-of-warranty malfunctioning of his spectronometer.

Dick Bull
01-09-2007, 02:10 PM
yep ... i also wonder how many of those bad swing passes were because Larry Johnson didn't feel like running a pass route.


i've been as critical of Trent Green in the past as anyone ... hell i reached "Mecca level" at one point. But offensive players tend to struggle under a Mart ...err Herman type offensive system.

the offensive lineman struggle to make blocks because the defense knows where they are going.

when the offensive line can't block ... the entire offense struggles

the running back can't find running lanes

the QB gets nervous about protection and starts to stuggle.



the whole freaking offense falls apart.


the quickest way to kill an offense is to make it predictable.


Is that a combination of marty schottenheimer and a fart

Baby Lee
01-09-2007, 02:12 PM
Is that a combination of marty schottenheimer and a fart
Now, you told Marty that that tickled your purple helmet.

Dick Bull
01-09-2007, 02:14 PM
Now, you told Marty that that tickled your purple helmet.


it's not so purple as a tan fleshy shade

MahiMike
01-09-2007, 02:15 PM
I can't wait to watch Trent lead the Redskins to the playoffs next year...)

Baby Lee
01-09-2007, 02:15 PM
it's not so purple as a tan fleshy shade
One word, turgid.

Dick Bull
01-09-2007, 02:18 PM
One word, turgid.


yeah well marty never got me turgid

MahiMike
01-09-2007, 02:21 PM
Everyone involved on the offensive side worth a damn wants out. You can read it on their faces and now their quotes to the media.

I wish them well wherever they end up.

Year 1 of Hermneptitude is complete. 4 more years of pestulence awaits us.

FAX
01-09-2007, 02:30 PM
... what's the dealio with you and BL? LMAO

I'm not completely certain, Mr. Laz. I was just going along posting my critiques regarding Herm's blatant lack of intelligence and honesty in an attempt to cleanse my psyche of the pain of our last embarrassment and "boom", like a shocking and unexpected jolt from a Hummer battery, here comes Mr. Baby Lee calling me a skank or something like that.

Obviously, having never been labeled in such coarse terms and having not insulted nor besmirched Mr. Baby Lee in any way nor at any time, the entire episode took me aback somewhat. But, I quickly realized that a terrible misunderstanding must have taken place for, the fact is, that I have always admired Mr. Baby Lee to the fullest. Therefore, I elected to approach the problem straightaway and attempt to resolve any outstanding potential conflicts in a manner that was both mature and in such a way that might make Jung proud.

That is why, in order to ensure that no further issues arise, I am taking every opportunity to publicly compliment him that we might dispel any barriers inhibiting our mutual progress from dissonance to consonance.

FAX

Dick Bull
01-09-2007, 02:32 PM
I'm not completely certain, Mr. Laz. I was just going along posting my critiques regarding Herm's blatant lack of intelligence and honesty in an attempt to cleanse my psyche of the pain of our last embarrassment and "boom", like a shocking and unexpected jolt from a Hummer battery, here comes Mr. Baby Lee calling me a skank or something like that.

Obviously, having never been labeled in such coarse terms and having not insulted nor besmirched Mr. Baby Lee in any way nor at any time, the entire episode took me aback somewhat. But, I quickly realized that a terrible misunderstanding must have taken place for, the fact is, that I have always admired Mr. Baby Lee to the fullest. Therefore, I elected to approach the problem straightaway and attempt to resolve any outstanding potential conflicts in a manner that was both mature and in such a way that might make Jung proud.

That is why, in order to ensure that no further issues arise, I am taking every opportunity to publicly compliment him that we might dispel the any barriers inhibiting our mutual progress from dissonance to consonance.

FAX

for christ sakes

in other words you guys kissed and made up


Thanks for making me look up 10 frigging words at dictionary.com

Redrum_69
01-09-2007, 02:33 PM
Lets bring on Art SHell

Baby Lee
01-09-2007, 02:34 PM
I'm not completely certain, Mr. Laz. I was just going along posting my critiques regarding Herm's blatant lack of intelligence and honesty in an attempt to cleanse my psyche of the pain of our last embarrassment and "boom", like a shocking and unexpected jolt from a Hummer battery, here comes Mr. Baby Lee calling me a skank or something like that.

Obviously, having never been labeled in such coarse terms and having not insulted nor besmirched Mr. Baby Lee in any way nor at any time, the entire episode took me aback somewhat. But, I quickly realized that a terrible misunderstanding must have taken place for, the fact is, that I have always admired Mr. Baby Lee to the fullest. Therefore, I elected to approach the problem straightaway and attempt to resolve any outstanding potential conflicts in a manner that was both mature and in such a way that might make Jung proud.

That is why, in order to ensure that no further issues arise, I am taking every opportunity to publicly compliment him that we might dispel any barriers inhibiting our mutual progress from dissonance to consonance.

FAX
I called you penchief. You're the one who made the leap from penchief to skank.
Understandable, I guess.

Dick Bull
01-09-2007, 02:36 PM
I called you penchief. You're the one who made the leap from penchief to skank.
Understandable, I guess.

quit being a baby

Baby Lee
01-09-2007, 02:38 PM
quit being a baby
quit being a . . . talking dog?

FAX
01-09-2007, 02:39 PM
I called you penchief. You're the one who made the leap from penchief to skank.
Understandable, I guess.

Was that the term, Mr. Baby Lee? Please note that I said, "skank or something like that". Frankly, I couldn't really remember. I've been in a fog since Saturday.

It's very cool, by the way, that you can recall details like that with such specificity.

FAX

Dick Bull
01-09-2007, 02:42 PM
quit being a . . . talking dog?

um typing dog

don't actually talk

Baby Lee
01-09-2007, 02:53 PM
Was that the term, Mr. Baby Lee? Please note that I said, "skank or something like that". Frankly, I couldn't really remember. I've been in a fog since Saturday.

It's very cool, by the way, that you can recall details like that with such specificity.

FAX
And so you know, the term penchief isn't some generalized slur, it's a reference to a certain D.C. poster who uses 'glittering generalities' to suggest the righteous purity of his opinion.

pen - "the sheep who don't realize that Bushron Cheneyburton is eviscerating every vital aspect of our Constitution before our eyes are hopelessly deluded."

[Mr.] FAX - "I have determined that Herm will pee on your leg and tell you he's watering flowers.

If you have the sense of an invertebrate, after a while you get tired of wet shoes. Herm is right in saying we will have to dumb down the offense because it will take some stupid mothers to buy into his bull."

FAX
01-09-2007, 03:04 PM
So, you're saying that it is your advice to avoid the use of "glittering generalities" in Planet posts, Mr. Baby Lee? If so, like a lonely proton in the throws of electron capture, I shall gladly take up that charge.

Thank you for the recommendation.

FAX

Baby Lee
01-09-2007, 03:17 PM
So, you're saying that it is your advice to avoid the use of "glittering generalities" in Planet posts, Mr. Baby Lee? If so, like a lonely proton in the throws of electron capture, I shall gladly take up that charge.

Thank you for the recommendation.

FAX
I would never presume to advise one 'so wise in the ways of science.'

I simply so humbly submit that, if you phrase your opinions in terms of;

"I have seen through the impenetable to grok the unknowable found in the darkest hearts of others, and those who cannot see what I see are poor deluded fools."

umbrage should not come as a shock.

:Poke:

EDIT: Though I must apologize for my utter lack of couth in deriding you with such vitriol ["penchiefian," my tongue is pickled in the brine of my tears as I reflect on my cavalier brutality towards you], knowing as I now do about your legendary penchant for droll restrained comeuppence;

I care, you raging dumbass. Make your own point or stick your head back up your ass and wish upon your colon that your mom regains her ability to lactate. Call me out again and I'll elevate your username permanently into the firmament of all time idiots.

FAX
01-09-2007, 03:58 PM
Yeah. I hear you. Typingwise, I mean. I was pretty wrong to tell that poster those terrible things. Oh, and the Stranger in a Strange Land reference is awesome, Mr. Baby Lee.

I think the loss on Saturday has driven me mad.

FAX

siberian khatru
01-09-2007, 04:17 PM
Man, what a couple of Merchant and Ivory fops you guys are.