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C-Mac
01-11-2007, 09:38 AM
RAND: Chiefs have to believe in their offense
Jan 11, 2007, 6:25:16 AM by Jonathan Rand - FAQ


It came as no surprise when coach Herm Edwards said that offensive changes were afoot in the off-season. A 126-yard performance in a playoff loss to the Indianapolis Colts screamed that the Chiefsí offense needs an overhaul. Thereís also an interesting precedent for this situation back in the teamís archives.

The Chiefsí offense hadnít been so futile in a playoff game since a 17-0 loss at San Diego at the end of the 1992 season. That marked the end of Marty Ball, a power-running attack that helped take the Chiefs from the doldrums to the playoffs. But that smash-mouth approach also saw them total just 40 points in their first four playoff games, three of them losses, under Marty Schottenheimer.

What followed that loss was one of the biggest offensive makeovers in franchise history. The Chiefs traded for quarterback Joe Montana and installed the West Coast offense that helped Montana lead the San Francisco 49ers to four Super Bowl wins. The Chiefsí new offense came on strong late in the year and had enough juice to help win two playoff games before landing with a thud in a 30-13 loss at Buffalo in the AFC Championship game.

Edwards shouldnít be nearly as sentimental about changing his offense as Schottenheimer mustíve been. The latter, after all, was giving up an offense that had served him well and was part of his bedrock football beliefs. Edwards merely will be giving up the offense he inherited from Dick Vermeil.

While Edwards has to take responsibility for an offense that scored more than two touchdowns just twice in its last nine games, his inheritance of Vermeilís offense was as awkward as it appeared generous. Whoís going to come in and junk an offense that led the NFL in total yardage for two consecutive seasons?

So Edwards tried to adapt the Vermeil offense, minus future Hall of Fame tackle Willie Roaf, to his preference for ball control. It was as though Edwards was grabbing another manís suit, getting it altered and hoping it would fit just right. This doesnít work, unless the new head coach is the former offensive coordinator.

For a classic example of a new coach getting burnt by not fixing something that didnít seem broke, letís rewind to Jimmy Johnson at the University of Miami in 1984. He took over the defending national champions and kept the old defensive staff. The results were disastrous and included two of the biggest collapses in college football history.

Miami blew a 31-0 halftime lead against Maryland and lost 42-40 in the biggest comeback victory of all time. A week later, Johnsonís defense allowed Boston College quarterback Doug Flutie to complete a Hail Mary pass at the end of a 47-45 victory.

Miami allowed 89 points in two weeks and Johnson realized he made a mistake keeping defensive coaches with whom he didnít really feel comfortable. They were the suit that didnít fit. He changed his defensive staff and system and lost four games over the next four years.

Now Edwards and offensive coordinator Mike Solari need to settle on an offense thatís right for them and their players. So much of a teamís success depends upon the commitment of coaches and players to a system, with the stubborn belief that it eventually will bring them a championship.

Edwards clearly has that kind of commitment to his defense, which made important strides during the 2006 season. But the dramatic drop-off in his offense leaves him with no good reason to stay the course, especially since some of his key players clearly werenít buying into the abridged version of Vermeilís offense.

Running back Larry Johnson, despite an outstanding season, called the offense too predictable and said he wasnít surprised by the offensive meltdown at Indianapolis. Quarterback Trent Green never criticized the offense but some of his remarks off the field and his performance on the field made it clear he wasnít quite comfortable with what he was asked to do.

This will be a busy off-season for the Chiefs, especially since you canít head down to your computer store and upgrade an offense the way you can a laptop. To make things even more challenging for Edwards, Joe Montanaís not available anymore.

ROYC75
01-11-2007, 09:48 AM
Offense, Offense, the only offense was blaming Trent when the play calling and OL were the reason we sucked so much.

Herm will revamp...... UFA Davis, AZ is a good start since we don't have a shot in the draft for Joe Thomas.

Here comes the return of the West Coast offense.......look for Croyle to be your opening day QB, Green as his backup. Huard wil be gone, time to get over it.

KC will go thru a transition year on the offensive side of the ball next year only to return to the playoffs in 2008

Redrum_69
01-11-2007, 09:49 AM
What rank did the Chiefs defense this year at?

what about their offense?

Easy 6
01-11-2007, 09:56 AM
Something about the last sentence almost sounds like a clue that we will be going to a West Coast O.

How Rand would know, i have no idea, but i wouldnt put it outside the realm of possibilities.

KCTitus
01-11-2007, 09:59 AM
Hold the phone...Marty ball ended in 1992? WTF? No, Montana put Martyball on hold and when he left after 1994, Martyball was back to normal.

Joe Montana was the ONLY reason why this team won a playoff game during Marty's tenure and it was in spite of Marty, not because Marty revamped anything.

Completing that 4th down TD to Carlos Carson was all Montana and the only reason they went on to Houston. The comeback, yes comeback, was all Montana in Houston. Montana gets a concussion early in the Buffalo game and the team folds up shop like it has the last 14 years.

If the offense doesnt believe it can continue to run the ball 420 times with one guy each season and succeed, they need Tony Robbins to convince them, I guess. I particularly dont believe it.

siberian khatru
01-11-2007, 10:00 AM
What rank did the Chiefs defense this year at?

what about their offense?

Defense: T-10th in PA, 16th in YA

Offense: 15th in both scoring and yardage.

HonestChieffan
01-11-2007, 10:02 AM
How can I trust the offense when I have no trust or faith in the idiot driving the bus.

Herm needs to earn back what he blew this year and he doesnt get it cause he talks to the freaking redStar.

siberian khatru
01-11-2007, 10:03 AM
Completing that 4th down TD to Carlos Carson was all Montana and the only reason they went on to Houston.

BTW, it was Barnett, not Carson.

KCTitus
01-11-2007, 10:05 AM
BTW, it was Barnett, not Carson.

Thanks...it's been too long ago.

shaneo69
01-11-2007, 10:18 AM
Thanks...it's been too long ago.

And Marty did actually win a playoff game with DeBerg at QB, thanks to Marinovich.

Dartgod
01-11-2007, 10:18 AM
Thanks...it's been too long ago.
It's ok. Carl's epic blunder of drafting Blackledge kind of makes those old memories a little fuzzy.

KCTitus
01-11-2007, 10:19 AM
It's ok. Carl's epic blunder of drafting Blackledge kind of makes those old memories a little fuzzy.

It all ended after that...really.

KCTitus
01-11-2007, 10:20 AM
And Marty did actually win a playoff game with DeBerg at QB, thanks to Marinovich.

That's right...Vince Evans helped. That was the 9-7 game.

Brock
01-11-2007, 10:23 AM
Completing that 4th down TD to Carlos Carson was all Montana and the only reason they went on to Houston.

Tim Barnett. :)

Oops, one of the other historians already caught that.

KCTitus
01-11-2007, 10:26 AM
Tim Barnett. :)

Oops, one of the other historians already caught that.

Im ashamed I messed that up...where do I turn in my 'real fan' card? Gah!

siberian khatru
01-11-2007, 10:28 AM
Im ashamed I messed that up...where do I turn in my 'real fan' card? Gah!

I wouldn't worry too much about forgetting Tim Barnett.

You didn't post hardly at all during the season. Why so much lately?

KCTitus
01-11-2007, 10:33 AM
I wouldn't worry too much about forgetting Tim Barnett.

You didn't post hardly at all during the season. Why so much lately?

Im in an offsite training class for stuff I already know this week, so I can post. I cant post from work anymore, even via analog line (dialup) because of some new monitoring stuff they've going going at work.

Im hoping to go wireless sometime this year.

Chiefnj
01-11-2007, 10:34 AM
Offensive stats: 2005................2006
Pts P/G.............25.2.................20.7
TD's.................46....................37
3rd %...............42.7.................40.6
Y/P..................5.8...................5.1
Yards/Game......387...................321.4



Defensive stats: 2005................2006
Pts p/g..............20.3.................19.7
TD's..................38....................34
Yards/Game........328.1................328.9
3rd%.................37.9..................39.2

Easy 6
01-11-2007, 10:36 AM
Offensive stats: 2005................2006
Pts P/G.............25.2.................20.7
TD's.................46....................37
3rd %...............42.7.................40.6
Y/P..................5.8...................5.1
Yards/Game......387...................321.4



Defensive stats: 2005................2006
Pts p/g..............20.3.................19.7
TD's..................38....................34
Yards/Game........328.1................328.9
3rd%.................37.9..................39.2

Those D stats are quite shocking.

siberian khatru
01-11-2007, 10:36 AM
Im in an offsite training class for stuff I already know this week, so I can post. I cant post from work anymore, even via analog line (dialup) because of some new monitoring stuff they've going going at work.



Did you find that frustrating or liberating (or indifferent)?

Chiefnj
01-11-2007, 10:37 AM
Those D stats are quite shocking.

Not as much change as you would have thought? Especially since the schedule this year, IMO, was a lot easier.

siberian khatru
01-11-2007, 10:38 AM
Offensive stats: 2005................2006
Pts P/G.............25.2.................20.7
TD's.................46....................37
3rd %...............42.7.................40.6
Y/P..................5.8...................5.1
Yards/Game......387...................321.4



Defensive stats: 2005................2006
Pts p/g..............20.3.................19.7
TD's..................38....................34
Yards/Game........328.1................328.9
3rd%.................37.9..................39.2

So the defense got marginally better while the offense steeply declined. Sounds about right.

KCTitus
01-11-2007, 10:41 AM
Did you find that frustrating or liberating (or indifferent)?

somewhat frustrating, however, once you get out of the 'habit' as it were, sometimes I wouldnt even think about it.

Easy 6
01-11-2007, 10:41 AM
Not as much change as you would have thought? Especially since the schedule this year, IMO, was a lot easier.

Its not a pretty sight, but i cant help but think that our offensive woes somehow contributed to that poor showing.

The D did look better this year, but yeah, disappointing #'s.

KCJohnny
01-11-2007, 10:47 AM
Joe Montana was the ONLY reason why this team won a playoff game during Marty's tenure and it was in spite of Marty, not because Marty revamped anything.

Completing that 4th down TD to Carlos Carson was all Montana and the only reason they went on to Houston. The comeback, yes comeback, was all Montana in Houston. Montana gets a concussion early in the Buffalo game and the team folds up shop like it has the last 14 years.



FWIW, Montana was stinking up that game by the time he was knocked out.

KCTitus
01-11-2007, 10:50 AM
FWIW, Montana was stinking up that game by the time he was knocked out.

Right...

Infidel Goat
01-11-2007, 11:04 AM
Right...

9 of 23 for 125 yards. 1 INT.

Probably St. Joe's second worse career playoff game.

KCTitus
01-11-2007, 12:16 PM
9 of 23 for 125 yards. 1 INT.

Probably St. Joe's second worse career playoff game.

So what...if it weren't for him, KC never would have made that game. They would have faltered at home, against Pittsburgh, which was my point.

FringeNC
01-11-2007, 12:20 PM
So the defense got marginally better while the offense steeply declined. Sounds about right.

And lucking into the playoffs, and playing the NFC West mask just how far this team has fallen.

FAX
01-11-2007, 12:24 PM
And lucking into the playoffs, and playing the NFC West mask just how far this team has fallen.

Exactly, Mr. FringeNC. Considering the 2006 schedule, the statistics and rankings sort of fog things over.

As far as thread starter is concerned, I think they should start off small.

Like believing in the tooth fairy, or mischievous brownies who hide in woodpiles or something like that. Then they can work their way up to believing in the offense.

FAX

Eric
01-11-2007, 01:43 PM
I might be wrong but isn't going by just averages in statistics a little misleading.

There could have been some big swing games that tipped the numbers.

Anyone remember the Pitt.STeeler game ?

siberian khatru
01-11-2007, 01:49 PM
I might be wrong but isn't going by just averages in statistics a little misleading.

There could have been some big swing games that tipped the numbers.

Anyone remember the Pitt.STeeler game ?

Fair point.

But you could also say that giving up only 9 points @ Denver offset it somewhat.

I mean, you could go up and down the sked and say "that game was better than expected, that one was worse." And if you're comparing years, you have to do the same game by game for that season.

You're right, but it's about as inexact as the averages. Most stats can be misleading if you invest too much worth into them.

Chiefs Pantalones
01-11-2007, 04:11 PM
RAND: Chiefs have to believe in their offense
Jan 11, 2007, 6:25:16 AM by Jonathan Rand - FAQ


It came as no surprise when coach Herm Edwards said that offensive changes were afoot in the off-season. A 126-yard performance in a playoff loss to the Indianapolis Colts screamed that the Chiefsí offense needs an overhaul. Thereís also an interesting precedent for this situation back in the teamís archives.

The Chiefsí offense hadnít been so futile in a playoff game since a 17-0 loss at San Diego at the end of the 1992 season. That marked the end of Marty Ball, a power-running attack that helped take the Chiefs from the doldrums to the playoffs. But that smash-mouth approach also saw them total just 40 points in their first four playoff games, three of them losses, under Marty Schottenheimer.

What followed that loss was one of the biggest offensive makeovers in franchise history. The Chiefs traded for quarterback Joe Montana and installed the West Coast offense that helped Montana lead the San Francisco 49ers to four Super Bowl wins. The Chiefsí new offense came on strong late in the year and had enough juice to help win two playoff games before landing with a thud in a 30-13 loss at Buffalo in the AFC Championship game.

Edwards shouldnít be nearly as sentimental about changing his offense as Schottenheimer mustíve been. The latter, after all, was giving up an offense that had served him well and was part of his bedrock football beliefs. Edwards merely will be giving up the offense he inherited from Dick Vermeil.

While Edwards has to take responsibility for an offense that scored more than two touchdowns just twice in its last nine games, his inheritance of Vermeilís offense was as awkward as it appeared generous. Whoís going to come in and junk an offense that led the NFL in total yardage for two consecutive seasons?

So Edwards tried to adapt the Vermeil offense, minus future Hall of Fame tackle Willie Roaf, to his preference for ball control. It was as though Edwards was grabbing another manís suit, getting it altered and hoping it would fit just right. This doesnít work, unless the new head coach is the former offensive coordinator.

For a classic example of a new coach getting burnt by not fixing something that didnít seem broke, letís rewind to Jimmy Johnson at the University of Miami in 1984. He took over the defending national champions and kept the old defensive staff. The results were disastrous and included two of the biggest collapses in college football history.

Miami blew a 31-0 halftime lead against Maryland and lost 42-40 in the biggest comeback victory of all time. A week later, Johnsonís defense allowed Boston College quarterback Doug Flutie to complete a Hail Mary pass at the end of a 47-45 victory.

Miami allowed 89 points in two weeks and Johnson realized he made a mistake keeping defensive coaches with whom he didnít really feel comfortable. They were the suit that didnít fit. He changed his defensive staff and system and lost four games over the next four years.

Now Edwards and offensive coordinator Mike Solari need to settle on an offense thatís right for them and their players. So much of a teamís success depends upon the commitment of coaches and players to a system, with the stubborn belief that it eventually will bring them a championship.

Edwards clearly has that kind of commitment to his defense, which made important strides during the 2006 season. But the dramatic drop-off in his offense leaves him with no good reason to stay the course, especially since some of his key players clearly werenít buying into the abridged version of Vermeilís offense.

Running back Larry Johnson, despite an outstanding season, called the offense too predictable and said he wasnít surprised by the offensive meltdown at Indianapolis. Quarterback Trent Green never criticized the offense but some of his remarks off the field and his performance on the field made it clear he wasnít quite comfortable with what he was asked to do.

This will be a busy off-season for the Chiefs, especially since you canít head down to your computer store and upgrade an offense the way you can a laptop. To make things even more challenging for Edwards, Joe Montanaís not available anymore.

Bullshit. Dungy inherited the Colts offense, was told not to touch it, and the offense remains great and in some cases has gotten better since then in 02.

KCJohnny
01-11-2007, 04:21 PM
9 of 23 for 125 yards. 1 INT.

Probably St. Joe's second worse career playoff game.
PBJ

Gotcha Titus...

MichaelH
01-11-2007, 04:41 PM
Funny, it only took one year to lose faith in a high scoring offense.

KCJohnny
01-11-2007, 06:15 PM
Funny, it only took one year to lose faith in a high scoring offense.

The bad thing is this offense will have a REAL crisis of confidence going the next 6 months with THAT putrid perormance as their last experience of the 2006 campaign.

ROYC75
01-11-2007, 06:18 PM
The bad thing is this offense will have a REAL crisis of confidence going the next 6 months with THAT putrid perormance as their last experience of the 2006 campaign.

They have had it the whole year with the exception of about 5 games........ None of the offensive players were thrilled with the playcalling.......

KCJohnny
01-11-2007, 07:20 PM
They have had it the whole year with the exception of about 5 games........ None of the offensive players were thrilled with the playcalling.......

Well, the last game of the season is THE LAST GAME OF THE SEASON. And with that putrid performance against a bottom feeder defense when the D kept given the O chance after chance, that's way different than just losing a game. I agree, there has been no confidence in the O, at least when Green was in the game all year.

Compare to the way the team ended 2005 with nearly 500 yards of total offesne, 37 points and a blowout W against a playoff team. We all felt good heading into the offseason with THAT performance.

TEX
01-11-2007, 08:22 PM
Hold the phone...Marty ball ended in 1992? WTF? No, Montana put Martyball on hold and when he left after 1994, Martyball was back to normal.

Joe Montana was the ONLY reason why this team won a playoff game during Marty's tenure and it was in spite of Marty, not because Marty revamped anything.

Completing that 4th down TD to Carlos Carson was all Montana and the only reason they went on to Houston. The comeback, yes comeback, was all Montana in Houston. Montana gets a concussion early in the Buffalo game and the team folds up shop like it has the last 14 years.

If the offense doesnt believe it can continue to run the ball 420 times with one guy each season and succeed, they need Tony Robbins to convince them, I guess. I particularly dont believe it.

Carlos Carson? I believe it was Barnett.

Brock
01-11-2007, 08:24 PM
PBJ

Gotcha Titus...


Like that nullifies his point.

KCTitus
01-11-2007, 08:26 PM
PBJ

Gotcha Titus...

Yeah, that game was all Montana.

KCTitus
01-11-2007, 08:26 PM
Carlos Carson? I believe it was Barnett.

Yes, it was...who's the idiot that said Carson?

TEX
01-11-2007, 10:17 PM
Yes, it was...who's the idiot that said Carson?

Awe, he's not an idiot. A Genious (CP spelling) maybe... ;)