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crazycoffey
01-11-2007, 11:25 AM
updating the other HOF thread. DT is still on, and yes, I hope we get a good presenter this year too. 58 forever!

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/story.jsp?story_id=2285

Listed alphabetically, the 17 finalists with their positions, teams, and years active follow:

Fred Dean (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=261) - Defensive End - 1975-1981 San Diego Chargers, 1981-1985 San Francisco 49ers
Richard Dent (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=240) - Defensive End - 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles
Russ Grimm (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=244) - Guard - 1981-1991 Washington Redskins
Ray Guy (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=262) - Punter - 1973-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders
Gene Hickerson (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/263) - Guard - 1958-1973 Cleveland Browns
Michael Irvin (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/246) - Wide Receiver - 1988-1999 Dallas Cowboys
Bob Kuechenberg (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=247) - Guard - 1970-1984 Miami Dolphins
Bruce Matthews (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/264) - Guard, Tackle, Center - 1983-2001 Houston Oilers/Tennessee Oilers/Titans
Art Monk (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=248) - Wide Receiver - 1980-1993 Washington Redskins, 1994 New York Jets, 1995 Philadelphia Eagles
Andre Reed (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=265) - Wide Receiver - 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins
Charlie Sanders (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=266) - Tight End - 1968-1977 Detroit Lions
Paul Tagliabue (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=267) - NFL Commissioner - 1989-2006
Derrick Thomas (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/249) - Linebacker - 1989-1999 Kansas City Chiefs
Thurman Thomas (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=253) - Running Back - 1988-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Miami Dolphins
Andre Tippett (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=268) - Linebacker - 1982-1993 New England Patriots
Roger Wehrli (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=250) - Cornerback - 1969-1982 St. Louis Cardinals
Gary Zimmerman (http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=259) - Tackle - 1986-1992 Minnesota Vikings, 1993-1997 Denver Broncos

Dent, Grimm, Guy, Hickerson, Irvin, Kuechenberg, Monk, Derrick Thomas, Thurman Thomas, Wehrli, and Zimmerman have all been finalists in previous years.


First to get cut - from the list of 25 (released in Nov)
Terrell Davis - so quit talking about if he will make it this year, closet donkey fans
Dermontti Dawson
Randy Gradishar
Kevin Greene
Charles Haley
Lester Hayes
Randall McDaniel
Art Modell
Ken Stabler


Charlie Sanders
Gene Hickerson
were added from senior members, they were not on the original 25.


What is everyone's revised predictions?

BIG_DADDY
01-11-2007, 11:27 AM
Hope DT makes it finally.

wutamess
01-11-2007, 11:49 AM
DT, T. Thomas & Matthews should have great chances this year.

crazycoffey
01-11-2007, 11:53 AM
I didn't know R. Dent wasn't already in, that's one of the more surprising names.

If that was a trivia question, I would have missed it.

StcChief
01-11-2007, 11:54 AM
DT makes it.

tags will get in he was such a great leader :rolleyes:

crazycoffey
01-11-2007, 11:58 AM
I hope Tags doesn't but he will, in all likely hood.

I want
DT - of course
Dent
Art monk
Bruce mathews
and Irvin, but they probably wont take two WR

Stinger
01-11-2007, 12:07 PM
So more importantly if Tags get picked will the Chiefs lose draft picks??

joemama
01-11-2007, 12:08 PM
DT should have made it in two years ago, in his first year of eligibility. I suppose you have to be on a championship team to get in your first year. If he does not get in this year they should take away the privilege of voting from those a--holes. :mad:

If T.O. loving, crack smoking, clown dressing, Michael Irvin gets in and not 58. I just might go crazy :cuss:

Brock
01-11-2007, 12:09 PM
I predict

Thomas
Thomas
Irvin
Matthews
Tagliabue

Phobia
01-11-2007, 12:14 PM
I predict

Thomas
Thomas
Irvin
Matthews
Tagliabue
That's my thinking as well.

crazycoffey
01-11-2007, 12:51 PM
I predict

Thomas
Thomas
Irvin
Matthews
Tagliabue

a good solid prediction

kepp
01-11-2007, 12:54 PM
I bet Irvin would throw the best party if he made it in.

Mile High Mania
01-11-2007, 12:55 PM
Sadly, I fear Monk being passed over again and feel a disturbance in the universe that says Irvin gets in.

Chief Chief
01-11-2007, 01:11 PM
updating the other HOF thread. DT is still on, and yes, I hope we get a good presenter this year too. 58 forever!


As long as Bob Gretz is KC's rep on the HOF committee, then it will always be him who will present the case for DT. I've written an e-mail to Gretz regarding what he should say to the other committee members to win their vote for DT (Gretz didn't bother sending me a return e-mail). Basically, what I said was that DT wasn't utilized in the traditional LB role. He did what he was told to do by the head coach and the defensive coach and didn't complain about how he was possibly being under-utilized. In playing all out every game, he excelled in what he was asked to do, thereby revolutionizing a new defensive scheme/strategy.

BTW, I'd heard that once NYG LB Harry Carson was voted in the HOF, then DT would be the next LB to enter. So, since Carson got in last year, more votes will be cast for #58 this year. Let's hope our man gets enough -- he certainly deserves HOF honors!

crazycoffey
01-11-2007, 06:37 PM
Sadly, I fear Monk being passed over again and feel a disturbance in the universe that says Irvin gets in.

I know, sadly I agree.

GO ART MONK.

JohninGpt
01-11-2007, 06:50 PM
I bet Irvin would throw the best party if he made it in.
Free Cola for everyone!

crazycoffey
01-11-2007, 06:54 PM
Free Cola for everyone!

Or some type of Coke product

crazycoffey
01-12-2007, 07:39 AM
anybody not made thier HOF predictions?

SLQ
01-12-2007, 09:01 AM
I'd like to see another Chief there but I don't have the feeling that DT is a lock. Better players have been overlooked.

There are quite a few people there that have had major impact on their teams, I'd say that it is a very difficult decision.

How many people can get into the hall every year? Is there a limit?

crazycoffey
01-12-2007, 09:41 AM
hardly an official answer, without looking it up, I think it's five.

crazycoffey
01-18-2007, 02:21 PM
Nick Bakay talks about the conference games and the HOF list, here's the link and what he said about DT:

http://www.superbowl.com/news/story/9937253
Nick Bakay's Manly House of Football

Derrick Thomas: Another no-brainer -- he changed the game plan every time he lined up to attack the QB, and who knows what the final numbers might have been had he not checked out so tragically.

Halfcan
01-18-2007, 02:59 PM
Irvin is NOT a HOFer!

Halfcan
01-18-2007, 03:00 PM
Nick Bakay talks about the conference games and the HOF list, here's the link and what he said about DT:

http://www.superbowl.com/news/story/9937253
Nick Bakay's Manly House of Football

Derrick Thomas: Another no-brainer -- he changed the game plan every time he lined up to attack the QB, and who knows what the final numbers might have been had he not checked out so tragically.

DT would have been the ALL-Time sack leader.

crazycoffey
01-18-2007, 03:04 PM
DT would have been the ALL-Time sack leader.

agreeable on DT

Irvin, it pains me to say it, he will make it. I just hope not this year. if they only take one WR I am pulling for Monk.

Brock
01-18-2007, 03:05 PM
Irvin is NOT a HOFer!

Yes he is. No question about it.

crazycoffey
01-18-2007, 03:34 PM
Yes he is. No question about it.

I know I don't know how someone can say his numbers don't add up. I question Irvin's personal life, but that's not a part of it. End of the day, he was a great WR, and will make it. I just think Monk doesn't get any love because he didnt' have a lot of long bombs. They both will get in, it's just a question of who gets in first.

but to echo other thoughts, this has to be DT's year.

Logical
01-18-2007, 03:39 PM
This is a really weak class, DT should finally have an excellent shot of making it.

Logical
01-18-2007, 03:42 PM
I predict

Thomas
Thomas
Irvin
Matthews
Tagliabue

That would be a big group, I would think it might take one more year before Irvin gets in.

crazycoffey
01-18-2007, 03:50 PM
yeah, they only take three, but I thought they COULD go to five, I thought I remembered King writing about that topic a couple of years ago, I couldn't find it in his archives, but curious about what you all think/know on the topic.

Deberg_1990
01-18-2007, 06:01 PM
Irvin is NOT a HOFer!


Off the field issues aside....yes he is.

State me a case that hes not.

Rain Man
01-18-2007, 07:04 PM
DT would have been the ALL-Time sack leader.

Probably not. He was almost 100 sacks behind Reggie White and Bruce Smith. Averaging 10 sacks a year, he would've had to play over 20 years to pass them.

Rain Man
01-18-2007, 07:06 PM
From the HoF website (see bold):

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/selectionprocess.jsp

Charged with the vital task of continuing to be sure that new enshrinees are the finest the game has produced is the Pro Football Hall of Fame's 40-person Board of Selectors (see list below).

The Board consists of one media representative from each pro football city with two from New York, inasmuch as that city has two teams in the National Football League. A 33rd member is a representative of the Pro Football Writers of America and there are seven at-large delegates.

With the exception of the PFWA representative who is appointed for a two-year term, all appointments are of the open-end variety and can be terminated only by retirement or resignation, as long as the member continues to attend meetings regularly.

The Board of Selectors meets annually at the time of the Super Bowl to elect new members. There is no set number for any class of enshrinees but, the Board's current ground rules do stipulate that between three and six new members will be selected each year. The 1973 and 1976 classes of three were the smallest ever named.

Every candidate is carefully scrutinized and must receive at least 80 percent approval of the Board at the annual meeting before he can be elected. A scale of negative votes for elimination that will vary depending on the number of Selectors in attendance is used.

When the Selectors meet in South Florida next February to name the Class of 2007, they will have before them a roster of 17 final candidates, along with detailed biographies on each. To assure that older players will be considered along with the younger breed, the Seniors Committee - made up of nine veteran members of the overall Selection Committee - have named two nominees from the pre-1982 era to be included on the final list.

The other finalists will be the survivors from a preliminary list of candidates that the Board will have screened by mail ballot. That original list will have been in part provided by the fans themselves.

A slight modification to the bylaws in August 2006 resulted in an increase to 17 finalists based on 15 modern-era candidates and two senior nominees being named. In the past, the finalists numbered 15 that included 13 modern-era candidates and the two senior nominees.

Any fan may nominate any qualified person who has been connected with pro football in any capacity simply by writing to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. The only restriction is that a player must have last played at least five seasons before he can be considered. For example, a candidate for the 2007 class must have concluded his career not later than the 2001 season.

For a non-player, there is no mandatory retirement period, but a coach must be retired before he may be considered. Every nomination received will be processed and forwarded to the Board of Selectors.

It is important to emphasize that the Hall of Fame itself has no say whatsoever as to who is or is not elected to membership. The only function of the staff is to process the nominations as they arrive and to coordinate the annual meeting.

Rain Man
01-18-2007, 07:23 PM
My top six candidates in a perfect world?

Derrick Thomas
Everson Walls
Ray Guy, even though he was a Raider
Bruce Matthews
Randall McDaniel
Kevin Greene

Who I think SHOULD be selected from the list

Ray Guy
Bruce Matthews
Paul Tagliabue
Derrick Thomas

Who I think WILL get in from the list

Richard Dent
Bruce Matthews
Paul Tagliabue
Derrick Thomas
Art Monk



Fred Dean - Defensive End - 1975-1981 San Diego Chargers, 1981-1985 San Francisco 49ers - Had a few good years. No better than Art Still. Not a strong candidate.

Richard Dent - Defensive End - 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles - Reasonably strong candidate on very strong unit. I never viewed him as the best in the league by a long shot. May sneak in in a light year.

Russ Grimm - Guard - 1981-1991 Washington Redskins - What the - ? Anyone would look good next to Joe Jacoby. Not really deserving.

Ray Guy - Punter - 1973-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders - Who cares if he's a punter? He should be in. He's one of the two or three best at his position ever.

Gene Hickerson - Guard - 1958-1973 Cleveland Browns - A bit before my time, so I can't judge. I vaguely remember him as being very good. Longshot candidate.

Michael Irvin - Wide Receiver - 1988-1999 Dallas Cowboys - On the field, probably barely a Hall of Famer. Off the field stuff should keep him out, but won't.

Bob Kuechenberg - Guard - 1970-1984 Miami Dolphins - Second-best guard on his team. How many offensive Dolphins from that team are in the HoF? Little, Langer, Warfield, Csonka(?)...is Griese? He was very good, but I have a hard time envisioning that half of their offense was Hall of Famers. Probably has a good shot at making it, but Ed White deserves it more from his era.

Bruce Matthews - Guard, Tackle, Center - 1983-2001 Houston Oilers/Tennessee Oilers/Titans - Lock to get in. Deserves it.

Art Monk - Wide Receiver - 1980-1993 Washington Redskins, 1994 New York Jets, 1995 Philadelphia Eagles - Playing a long time shouldn't get you in. He didn't scare anybody. Nobody game-planned around him. Shouldn't be a candidate.

Andre Reed - Wide Receiver - 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins - Probably a better candidate than Monk, even though I wasn't too crazy about him. Maybe in a lean year.

Charlie Sanders - Tight End - 1968-1977 Detroit Lions - Very good tight end. Very good. But he played in an era that was full of good tight ends. Not much chance.

Paul Tagliabue - NFL Commissioner - 1989-2006 - Lock to get in. If you're the commissioner for almost 20 years, you're in. Maybe not first vote, but likely first vote.

Derrick Thomas - Linebacker - 1989-1999 Kansas City Chiefs - Should get in. Dominating player in his prime who changed opponents' game plans. Should get in this year.

Thurman Thomas - Running Back - 1988-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Miami Dolphins - Ugly. Stupid. Chews with his mouth open. Big ego. Way overrated. Made faces at Chiefs. Shouldn't get in because he brought shame to football. Probably will make it in a lean to typical year.

Andre Tippett - Linebacker - 1982-1993 New England Patriots - Dominating player in his prime. Overshadowed by LT. If he's got as many sacks as DT, he should follow DT in in a later vote. I think Kevin Greene outproduced him, though. (Could be wrong on that.)

Roger Wehrli - Cornerback - 1969-1982 St. Louis Cardinals - Very good cornerback. One of the best in the business. Shouldn't get in over Everson Walls, but very good. Reasonable shot at getting in.

Gary Zimmerman - Tackle - Reasonable shot at getting in, but he was no Randall McDaniel. McDaniel should have his spot.

Brock
01-18-2007, 07:30 PM
LOL, Monk deserves to get in but Irvin is "barely a hall of famer"?

Uh.....

Rain Man
01-18-2007, 07:32 PM
If you're referring to my post, Brock, I said that Monk doesn't deserve to get in.

Halfcan
01-18-2007, 07:40 PM
Probably not. He was almost 100 sacks behind Reggie White and Bruce Smith. Averaging 10 sacks a year, he would've had to play over 20 years to pass them.

Might check your math??

DT 127.5 sacks Smith 200. DT would have needed 13 sacks over 6 years.

milkman
01-18-2007, 08:31 PM
Might check your math??

DT 127.5 sacks Smith 200. DT would have needed 13 sacks over 6 years.

DT was already on the decline before he left us.

He would never have caught up to Smith.

cdcox
01-18-2007, 08:40 PM
Might check your math??

DT 127.5 sacks Smith 200. DT would have needed 13 sacks over 6 years.

If DT had lived he would not have played another 6 years and would not have had another 13 sack season.

Halfcan
01-18-2007, 08:42 PM
DT was already on the decline before he left us.

He would never have caught up to Smith.

He was still our best player and still had a lot of great years ahead of him.

milkman
01-18-2007, 09:13 PM
He was still our best player and still had a lot of great years ahead of him.

DT had, at best, 3 good, not great, years left in him.

Halfcan
01-18-2007, 09:15 PM
DT had, at best, 3 good, not great, years left in him.


Blasphemy!

Deberg_1990
01-18-2007, 09:16 PM
DT had, at best, 3 good, not great, years left in him.

Agreed...

milkman
01-18-2007, 09:18 PM
Blasphemy!

Some people simply can't watch TV and drool over their favorite player at the same time.

Halfcan
01-18-2007, 09:19 PM
Carl would have let him play as long as he wanted. DT just turned 33 before the accident and was still in top shape. You guys are talking out your ass.

milkman
01-18-2007, 09:20 PM
Carl would have let him play as long as he wanted. DT just turned 33 before the accident and was still in top shape. You guys are talking out your ass.

Halfwit, you're alright, but you're a dumbass.

Halfcan
01-18-2007, 09:21 PM
And how old was Bruce Smith when he finally passsed Reggie?

Deberg_1990
01-18-2007, 09:22 PM
And how old was Bruce Smith when he finally passsed Reggie?


he was just a role player his last few years with the Redskins..

Halfcan
01-18-2007, 09:28 PM
People counted DT out his whole life-doesn't surprise me that folks are still down on him. He should have been a first ballot HOFer if there ever was one.

cdcox
01-18-2007, 09:50 PM
People counted DT out his whole life-


Yeah, that's why he was passed over until the 4th overall pick of the draft...

Halfcan
01-18-2007, 10:48 PM
Yeah, that's why he was passed over until the 4th overall pick of the draft...

Thank God Carl didn't screw it up.

Fruit Ninja
01-19-2007, 01:58 AM
We all loved DT but i dont think he would have had 6 more 13 sack seasons. Maybe a few 10, but he was on the decline. HE was still fast, but you could see it in the last 2 years of him playing he wasnt the same guy.

Anyways, I hope he makes it this year. He certainly deserves it.

crazycoffey
01-19-2007, 07:46 AM
We all loved DT but i dont think he would have had 6 more 13 sack seasons. Maybe a few 10, but he was on the decline. HE was still fast, but you could see it in the last 2 years of him playing he wasnt the same guy.

Anyways, I hope he makes it this year. He certainly deserves it.


I swear the attitude on this site is soooo wishy washy. how the hell do you compare his sack numbers to those of two DE?

Am I missing something, and this isn't just directed at you kciv, I know you were commenting on what others were saying too.

DT was a LB, he dropped into coverage, he got his hands on the ball, he disrupted the offensive flow, not just from the sack angle. Yet he was very succesful at that too. He was comparible to a Lawernce taylor, a beast that the Offense was worried about.

He should make it this year, regardless of not being the sack leader, or needing 13 sacks in the final 6 years. I doubt that too, unless he was just pinning his ears back every down. but he would have had more to his numbers, because he was that good. HOF + DT = 2007.

Jr_Captain
01-19-2007, 07:48 AM
DT for sure.

Over-Head
01-19-2007, 08:26 AM
And Stabler getís screwed again! :cuss:

Hoover
01-19-2007, 08:56 AM
If it was up to me

DT
T. Thomas
Art Monk
Bruce Matthews

Tags and Irvin can wait.