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kczoo
01-11-2007, 07:53 PM
and The Raiders pick a franchise QB with their pick, arent we on the bottom of the food chain in the AFC West? Hmmmmm, Martz will make a Raiders offense better than this year and their D is already killer. Were in for a long offseason

Reerun_KC
01-11-2007, 07:56 PM
and The Raiders pick a franchise QB with their pick, arent we on the bottom of the food chain in the AFC West? Hmmmmm, Martz will make a Raiders offense better than this year and their D is already killer. Were in for a long offseason


What? No way. Herm says everything is oookkkaaayyyy....

RedDread
01-11-2007, 07:56 PM
This assumes we make no moves whatsoever. Filling gaps in the O-Line and getting new D-Tackles will improve us tremendously.

Also first year quarterbacks in any system are usually pretty shitty, but behind the Raiders current Offensive Line it could get ugleh.

FAX
01-11-2007, 07:57 PM
It would be pretty darn funny if the Raiders put together an offense (they still have some talent on that side of the ball) and start making a run while we're sitting here trying to find a lineman who can block a pop up window and listening to Herm tell us it's okay.

FAX

Mile High Mania
01-11-2007, 07:58 PM
That's a scenario that I honestly never considered... but, yeah... they have talent and Martz has wild ass schemes that would do really well.

ROYC75
01-11-2007, 08:00 PM
But ultimately, They would have Martz ..........not a very good HC.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-11-2007, 08:04 PM
and The Raiders pick a franchise QB with their pick, arent we on the bottom of the food chain in the AFC West? Hmmmmm, Martz will make a Raiders offense better than this year and their D is already killer. Were in for a long offseason

We all know that Martz's circus offense will kill that D...

FAX
01-11-2007, 08:06 PM
We all know that Martz's circus offense will kill that D...

ROFL

No doubt. TOP would kill them. He likes to score way too fast.

FAX

beer bacon
01-11-2007, 08:39 PM
I am pretty sure we are doomed.

Reerun_KC
01-11-2007, 08:41 PM
I am pretty sure we are doomed.


Doesnt take much with the Coach we have paddling the boat.

siberian khatru
01-11-2007, 08:42 PM
I am pretty sure we are doomed.

That's my default mode.

beer bacon
01-11-2007, 08:42 PM
Doesnt take much with the Coach we have paddling the boat.

We will never be as good as the Raiders now :(

Count Alex's Losses
01-11-2007, 08:45 PM
Actually, they don't have talent.

No quarterback. Shitty offensive line. Jordan is a decent RB but nothing special.

At wide receiver? Moss is a joke. Porter is out the door. I guess Curry and Gabriel are pretty good.

I think it will take much, much more than Mike Martz.

Count Alex's Losses
01-11-2007, 08:47 PM
All I know is that I want 10 straight wins over the Raiders. It's like a consolation prize for 30 years of suckage. How many other NFL franchises can say they've dominated their archrival for five straight years? We should get a bronze trophy of Al Davis getting pissed on if we sweep them again.

beer bacon
01-11-2007, 08:48 PM
Actually, they don't have talent.

No quarterback. Shitty offensive line. Jordan is a decent RB but nothing special.

At wide receiver? Moss is a joke. Porter is out the door. I guess Curry and Gabriel are pretty good.

I think it will take much, much more than Mike Martz.

Stop being naive. Martz is going to lead the Raiders to multiple Super Bowls while the Chiefs rot in the cellar :(

Brock
01-11-2007, 08:49 PM
They don't have the talent to run the "Martz" :rolleyes: offense.

beer bacon
01-11-2007, 08:50 PM
They don't have the talent to run the "Martz" :rolleyes: offense.

Martz showed in Detroit that he doesn't need talent to make his offense work.

Brock
01-11-2007, 08:52 PM
Martz showed in Detroit that he doesn't need talent to make his offense work.

Nah. Not so much.

Count Alex's Losses
01-11-2007, 08:54 PM
Martz showed in Detroit that he doesn't need talent to make his offense work.

The Lions have talent. Roy Williams is a beast.

WilliamTheIrish
01-11-2007, 08:54 PM
Draft a franchise QB? The Raiders? Sure.

They better draft OLine or the 'franchise' QB will be more concussed than Merril Hodge.

beer bacon
01-11-2007, 08:58 PM
Nah. Not so much.

So 19.1 ppg isn't "making it work?" That is only two ppg or so less then our offense for this season. I don't see anybody badmouthing our offense!

Brock
01-11-2007, 09:00 PM
So 19.1 ppg isn't "making it work?" That is only two ppg or so less then our offense for this season. I don't see anybody badmouthing our offense!

21st in points and 17th in yardage is mediocrity defined. WTF do you mean nobody is badmouthing our offense? That's been going on here all year.

beer bacon
01-11-2007, 09:04 PM
21st in points and 17th in yardage is mediocrity defined. WTF do you mean nobody is badmouthing our offense? That's been going on here all year.

All I know is that nobody would be complaining if the Royals were scoring 19.1 runs per game. Refute that!

Over-Head
01-11-2007, 09:05 PM
Stop being naive. Martz is going to lead the Raiders to multiple Super Bowls while the Chiefs rot in the cellar :(
Damnnnnnn
You dream bigger than I do! :eek:

doomy3
01-11-2007, 09:58 PM
I guess this thread is a joke :shrug:

SNR
01-11-2007, 10:42 PM
I know logic dictates that eventually we'll see the Raiders play decent football again. Some day.

But just because Martz is an offensive mastermind doesn't mean he's going to turn the Raiders around. The Lions' offense wasn't exactly prolific, and they were in better shape than the Raiders have been this past season. Remember how Brian Billick was supposed to build an offense in Baltimore? Norv Turner?

We know that Mike Martz is full of shit as a head coach. He'll probably run the Raiders into the ground.

beer bacon
01-11-2007, 10:44 PM
I know logic dictates that eventually we'll see the Raiders play decent football again. Some day.

But just because Martz is an offensive mastermind doesn't mean he's going to turn the Raiders around. The Lions' offense wasn't exactly prolific, and they were in better shape than the Raiders have been this past season. Remember how Brian Billick was supposed to build an offense in Baltimore? Norv Turner?

We know that Mike Martz is full of shit as a head coach. He'll probably run the Raiders into the ground.

Big Al wouldn't let him do that.

KCJohnny
01-11-2007, 10:46 PM
Martz will have Damon Huard next year and will be able to rjuvinate the Raiders' offense to go with that strong defense. Raiders will be 8-8 or better next year if Martz comes.

DaneMcCloud
01-11-2007, 11:06 PM
But ultimately, They would have Martz ..........not a very good HC.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

Martz was the OC of a Super Bowl team. He took the Rams to the playoffs the following year. In 2001, he took the Rams to 14-2, where they lost the Super Bowl 20-16 to the Patriots. Overall, Martz took the Rams to the playoffs four out of five seasons.

That doesn't sound good at all to me, as a Chiefs fan. :rolleyes:

KCJohnny
01-11-2007, 11:09 PM
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

Martz was the OC of a Super Bowl team. He took the Rams to the playoffs the following year. In 2001, he took the Rams to 14-2, where they lost the Super Bowl 20-16 to the Patriots. Overall, Martz took the Rams to the playoffs four out of five seasons.

That doesn't sound good at all to me, as a Chiefs fan. :rolleyes:

Hard to argue with that. And Martz fits the Raiders profile.

FDS
01-11-2007, 11:11 PM
Martz and Davis would do nothing but, butt heads.


PBJ FirstDownSamie PBJ

DaneMcCloud
01-11-2007, 11:19 PM
Hard to argue with that. And Martz fits the Raiders profile.

You know John, as much as I will be despised for saying this, I wish he fit the Chiefs profile.

Bold, courageous playcalling, sometimes reckless but always with the intent to win.

Unlike our current coach. :(

KCJohnny
01-11-2007, 11:25 PM
You know John, as much as I will be despised for saying this, I wish he fit the Chiefs profile.

Bold, courageous playcalling, sometimes reckless but always with the intent to win.

Unlike our current coach. :(

I would welcome Martz in KC with open arms, but the guy who should be head coach was not offered a contract (Al Saunders). Carl's prickosity is vividly demonstrated by NOT offering AS the HC job when he and Gun could have powered this team to total dominance in the AFCW. Herm is a "Carl knows best" guy which sours me on his tenure knowing AS has a HUGE history of success in KC and the AFCW.

DaneMcCloud
01-11-2007, 11:29 PM
I would welcome Martz in KC with open arms, but the guy who should be head coach was not offered a contract (Al Saunders). Carl's prickosity is vividly demonstrated by NOT offering AS the HC job when he and Gun could have powered this team to total dominance in the AFCW. Herm is a "Carl knows best" guy which sours me on his tenure knowing AS has a HUGE history of success in KC and the AFCW.

I totally understand where you're coming from and once thought that AS would be the correct choice for the franchise as well, but we'd both be speculating as to how much success AS would have had leading the Chiefs.

Martz is a proven commodity. Freakin' Jon Kitna threw for over 4,000 yards this year! Unfortunately, AS is not. Which is why I think it would have been nice to see the Chiefs front office and ownership go after a truly proven guy, instead of a guy who (in Joe Pos's words) lucks into everything.

FDS
01-11-2007, 11:30 PM
Was not Martz the one who was to stuborn to run Faulk in the SB? His ego and Davis's would clash.

PBJ FirstDownSamie PBJ

KCJohnny
01-11-2007, 11:32 PM
I totally understand where you're coming from and once thought that AS would be the correct choice for the franchise as well, but we'd both be speculating as to how much success AS would have had leading the Chiefs.

Martz is a proven commodity. Freakin' Jon Kitna threw for over 4,000 yards this year! Unfortunately, AS is not. Which is why I think it would have been nice to see the Chiefs front office and ownership go after a truly proven guy, instead of a guy who (in Joe Pos's words) lucks into everything.

I would be wary of Martz as a HC, not an OC. We NEED defense NOW and Carl knows it, hence, Herm. But Herm needs the anti-Herm on offense, and Solari ain't him. Let's hope Solari = AS jr. next year.

DaneMcCloud
01-11-2007, 11:43 PM
I would be wary of Martz as a HC, not an OC. We NEED defense NOW and Carl knows it, hence, Herm. But Herm needs he anti-Herm on offense, and Solari ain't him. Let's hope Solari = AS jr. next year.

As I've stated before, I think the defensive improvement happened not because of Herm, but because of another year in Gunther's scheme and the addition of Hali, Page and Ty Law. I think that was inevitable.

I also hope that Solari performs better this year but it seemed to me that he called his best games when Huard was under center. Maybe it was the so-called "reduced playbook", maybe it was chemistry. But it was Solari's first year as an OC in the NFL and it went "okay". Hopefully, he'll improve. But I think it's unrealistic to expect him to produce AS and Martz types of numbers.

Some people have a gifts, others work harder than the next guy to compensate for their lack of gifts. I think Solari falls in the latter of the two categories.

KCJohnny
01-11-2007, 11:48 PM
As I've stated before, I think the defensive improvement happened not because of Herm, but because of another year in Gunther's scheme and the addition of Hali, Page and Ty Law. I think that was inevitable.

I also hope that Solari performs better this year but it seemed to me that he called his best games when Huard was under center. Maybe it was the so-called "reduced playbook", maybe it was chemistry. But it was Solari's first year as an OC in the NFL and it went "okay". Hopefully, he'll improve. But I think it's unrealistic to expect him to produce AS and Martz types of numbers.

Some people have a gifts, others work harder than the next guy to compensate for their lack of gifts. I think Solari falls in the latter of the two categories.

No doubt in 2006 as he was "learning the passing game" he was the latter. I remember the Jets under Herm had such concerns that they hired Jimmy Raye as Offensive Consultant to help both the HC and the OC. Herm clearly did not get the picture when it came to offense. What most people are missing here is that DV was a career defense/running game HC until he captured lightning in a bottle with Green going down and Arena league QB Kurt Warner winning MVP under Martz's track meet indoor offense scheme.

Herm needs an AS, a Martz, a Norv Turner to make it beyong 9-7.

DaneMcCloud
01-11-2007, 11:55 PM
Herm needs an AS, a Martz, a Norv Turner to make it beyong 9-7.

I totally love the Coryell/Zampese offense but there's just not many disciples left. Cam Cameron is obviously doing extremely well in SD and Ron Turner has turned a moribund offense into an average offense (I'm sure once he gets the right QB and a tight end in place, they'll take off). Norv's done a terrific job in SF, especially considering the youth associated with that offense. When they have a breakthrough, lookout. They could be another dynasty team.

But other than those guys (and Martz), there's not much to chose from. And that's a bummer.

KCChiefsFan88
01-12-2007, 01:14 AM
Mike Martz is the head coach the Chiefs should have hired.

Redcoats58
01-12-2007, 01:22 AM
All I know is that I want 10 straight wins over the Raiders. It's like a consolation prize for 30 years of suckage. How many other NFL franchises can say they've dominated their archrival for five straight years? We should get a bronze trophy of Al Davis getting pissed on if we sweep them again.

Well I remember in the 90's we held a record over the raiders that was like 18 of 22, thats a pretty damn good beating over the years.

SPchief
01-12-2007, 01:49 AM
Its like a convention of Vermeil knobsuckers in this thread.

splatbass
01-12-2007, 03:54 AM
and The Raiders pick a franchise QB with their pick, arent we on the bottom of the food chain in the AFC West?


We finished ahead of Denver this year, so why wouldn't they be at the bottom of the food chain? Huh?

CupidStunt
01-12-2007, 04:04 AM
Some of you guys are funny.

We should've hired Martz after 5 years of similar ineptitude with Dick?

Wow.

King_Chief_Fan
01-12-2007, 07:22 AM
As I've stated before, I think the defensive improvement happened not because of Herm, but because of another year in Gunther's scheme and the addition of Hali, Page and Ty Law. I think that was inevitable.

I also hope that Solari performs better this year but it seemed to me that he called his best games when Huard was under center. Maybe it was the so-called "reduced playbook", maybe it was chemistry. But it was Solari's first year as an OC in the NFL and it went "okay". Hopefully, he'll improve. But I think it's unrealistic to expect him to produce AS and Martz types of numbers.

Some people have a gifts, others work harder than the next guy to compensate for their lack of gifts. I think Solari falls in the latter of the two categories.

It won't matter how good Solari is or isn't. Herm determines the game plan. run run run etc. Her said he wants a punishing ground game as his offense.

Chiefs_Fan
01-12-2007, 07:23 AM
Martz was a great offensive coordinator but sucked at being a HC. He wasted some good talent in St. Louis.

MahiMike
01-12-2007, 07:46 AM
Who needs offense when you have Herm?

Extra Point
01-12-2007, 08:05 AM
Martz and Davis were made for each other. I just hope we're playing at home, have a 3 TD lead, followed by a successful onside kick with 3:00 left in the game.

Brock
01-12-2007, 08:16 AM
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

Martz was the OC of a Super Bowl team. He took the Rams to the playoffs the following year. In 2001, he took the Rams to 14-2, where they lost the Super Bowl 20-16 to the Patriots. Overall, Martz took the Rams to the playoffs four out of five seasons.

That doesn't sound good at all to me, as a Chiefs fan. :rolleyes:

That team should have won more than one super bowl. I'd consider the accomplishments you listed as a failure. Also, if you look at Martz's drafts, it's almost as bad as Vermeil's draft record here. Martz drafted Steven Jackson and a bunch of guys you never heard of.

Skip Towne
01-12-2007, 08:29 AM
We are about to start having to worry about the Fade again. But it was a nice vacation.

crazycoffey
01-12-2007, 08:32 AM
and you thought DV cried publicly, this marriage will end very very badly, call ahead, let the ER know we are coming.

As "fragile" as Martz is, one little mistake and Al will be so far up Mike's ass that he'll be able to taste the chains on Al's glasses.

ROYC75
01-12-2007, 08:34 AM
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

Martz was the OC of a Super Bowl team. He took the Rams to the playoffs the following year. In 2001, he took the Rams to 14-2, where they lost the Super Bowl 20-16 to the Patriots. Overall, Martz took the Rams to the playoffs four out of five seasons.

That doesn't sound good at all to me, as a Chiefs fan. :rolleyes:

Leftover talent that started to decline as Martz rode the wave ? Sheesh, what was his final years like, how were his drafts ? When times got tough, he cracked under pressure.

If given him talent and controll of running an offense ( OC ) , he does well, it's the overall control ( HC ) of the team he can't handle.

crazycoffey
01-12-2007, 08:35 AM
I mean, I know the potential for disaster for chief fans is there, certainly if Moss and Porter jump on board.

Just, remembering how Martz over reacted to Bradshaw's comments....

SNR
01-12-2007, 10:58 AM
Didn't Martz have heart troubles when he was with the Rams? He'll need quadruple bypass surgery if he takes the Raiders job!

htismaqe
01-12-2007, 11:02 AM
Leftover talent that started to decline as Martz rode the wave ? Sheesh, what was his final years like, how were his drafts ? When times got tough, he cracked under pressure.

If given him talent and controll of running an offense ( OC ) , he does well, it's the overall control ( HC ) of the team he can't handle.

He was the OC in Detroit this past season and they have alot of high draft picks on offense...how did that work out?

crazycoffey
01-12-2007, 11:26 AM
He was the OC in Detroit this past season and they have alot of high draft picks on offense...how did that work out?



Good Point

DaneMcCloud
01-12-2007, 11:39 AM
Some of you guys are funny.

We should've hired Martz after 5 years of similar ineptitude with Dick?

Wow.

Show me where the Chiefs went to the playoffs 4 out of 5 years and a Superbowl with Vermeil.

I think I could deal with that kind of "ineptitude".

Some Chiefs fans are freakin' delusional.

ROYC75
01-12-2007, 12:39 PM
He was the OC in Detroit this past season and they have alot of high draft picks on offense...how did that work out?


Again, if given the talent as an OC, he does well, but as a HC, I would pass.

King_Chief_Fan
01-12-2007, 01:00 PM
He was the OC in Detroit this past season and they have alot of high draft picks on offense...how did that work out?

I think I saw somewhere that he took a 27th ranked offense and made them a 7th ranked offense.

Brock
01-12-2007, 01:12 PM
I think I saw somewhere that he took a 27th ranked offense and made them a 7th ranked offense.

LOL

htismaqe
01-12-2007, 01:15 PM
I think I saw somewhere that he took a 27th ranked offense and made them a 7th ranked offense.

ROFL

I just realized my post sounded like a sarcastic, rhetorical question.

It wasn't.

I actually wanted to know.

ROFL

crazycoffey
01-12-2007, 01:38 PM
I think I saw somewhere that he took a 27th ranked offense and made them a 7th ranked offense.

how much is that attributed to Martz and how much to Harringon leaving?

crazycoffey
01-12-2007, 01:40 PM
Hey, I had a thought, Detroit has some decent WR, right?

Trade Bell for one, they need LBs and we need WR.

DaneMcCloud
01-12-2007, 02:52 PM
That team should have won more than one super bowl. I'd consider the accomplishments you listed as a failure. Also, if you look at Martz's drafts, it's almost as bad as Vermeil's draft record here. Martz drafted Steven Jackson and a bunch of guys you never heard of.


That's pure speculation on your part. The facts are that succesfully coordinated the Rams to the Super Bowl and won. As the Rams head coach, he took them to the playoffs four out of five years and to the Super Bowl in 2002.

You can say whatever you want, but one thing's for sure, that's NOT ineptitude or failure.

DaneMcCloud
01-12-2007, 02:55 PM
Leftover talent that started to decline as Martz rode the wave ? Sheesh, what was his final years like, how were his drafts ? When times got tough, he cracked under pressure.

If given him talent and controll of running an offense ( OC ) , he does well, it's the overall control ( HC ) of the team he can't handle.

Leftover talent? Do you realize that the Rams were 5-11 two years prior to his arrival? And that two of the following three years, his teams were playing in the Super Bowl?

I'd take four out of five years in the playoffs and a Super Bowl appearance ANY DAY over no playoff wins in 14 years.

If Martz is inept, what does that make Gunther, Vermiel and Edwards?

Brock
01-12-2007, 03:27 PM
[QUOTE=DaneMcCloud]That's pure speculation on your part. The facts are that succesfully coordinated the Rams to the Super Bowl and won. As the Rams head coach, he took them to the playoffs four out of five years and to the Super Bowl in 2002.

Yeah, we'll just pretend that his own coaching decisions during playoff games and super bowls didn't cost him those games, or get quarterbacks killed. He didn't build that team, he presided over its decline, period. And that's why he's fired. If the Rams were an AFC team, they never would have made the playoffs all those years.

As easily as it was for Vermeil and Saunders to come over here and in the space of 1 year, create a team that was better offensively than the Rams ever were should tell you something.

ck_IN
01-12-2007, 04:05 PM
Martz might be a great OC but he appears to be a lousy HC. He needs someone to reign him in and as a HC he doesn't have that.

He paired with Davis would be a timebomb. But since it's the Raiders it'd be fun to watch.

DaneMcCloud
01-12-2007, 04:25 PM
[QUOTE=DaneMcCloud]That's pure speculation on your part. The facts are that succesfully coordinated the Rams to the Super Bowl and won. As the Rams head coach, he took them to the playoffs four out of five years and to the Super Bowl in 2002.

Yeah, we'll just pretend that his own coaching decisions during playoff games and super bowls didn't cost him those games, or get quarterbacks killed. He didn't build that team, he presided over its decline, period. And that's why he's fired. If the Rams were an AFC team, they never would have made the playoffs all those years.

As easily as it was for Vermeil and Saunders to come over here and in the space of 1 year, create a team that was better offensively than the Rams ever were should tell you something.

Brock,

RoyC's contention was that Martz was inept. I countered with the FACT that he took his team to the Super Bowl and to the playoffs, four out of five years. If you as a Chiefs fan wouldn't take that, I don't know what to say.

It seems to me that each and every fan of any NFL team (with the exception of the Patriots) thinks their coach is an idiot. It doesn't matter if it's Shanahan, Parcells, Cowher or Billick. If you watch one team, year after year after year, you're going to thing the coach is a moron.

That being said, I'd have rather had Martz and his four playoff appearances and Super Bowl loss than Vermeil and one playoff loss during the same time period.