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'Hamas' Jenkins
01-17-2007, 04:06 PM
Unquestionably a HOF wideout, but is he a good WR coach?

FringeNC
01-17-2007, 04:11 PM
Who knows if he is good, but I trust Vermeil/Saunders judgement of offensive coaching ability way more than I do Herm "simplify that for me" Edwards'. I shudder to think who Herm would chose himself.

siberian khatru
01-17-2007, 04:14 PM
Who knows if he is good, but I trust Vermeil/Saunders judgement of offensive coaching ability way more than I do Herm "simplify that for me" Edwards'. I shudder to think who Herm would chose himself.

Anthony Hancock.

FringeNC
01-17-2007, 04:16 PM
Anthony Hancock.

Was he a a Carl-bust, or pre-Carl? There have been so many over the years, it's hard to keep them straight.

siberian khatru
01-17-2007, 04:26 PM
Was he a a Carl-bust, or pre-Carl? There have been so many over the years, it's hard to keep them straight.

Pre-Carl.

On reflection, I probably should've named Snoop Minnis instead. For some reason, Hancock popped in my head first.

FringeNC
01-17-2007, 04:28 PM
Pre-Carl.

On reflection, I probably should've named Snoop Minnis instead. For some reason, Hancock popped in my head first.

I could see Herm hiring Art Shell as WR coach.

el borracho
01-17-2007, 04:41 PM
Who knows? :shrug: We should get some NFL WRs and see what he does with them.

Coach
01-17-2007, 06:15 PM
I don't think I consider Charlie a excellent WR coach. While he does have Kennison playing well, I haven't seen any young players actually improve, or at least play at a consistent level.

I think, in my view, that a change in that area could be needed.

pikesome
01-17-2007, 06:16 PM
We haven't exactly been blessed with talent at WR the last few years. I'd say that the corps we have, especially Kennison, have done well enough.

Coach
01-17-2007, 06:19 PM
We haven't exactly been blessed with talent at WR the last few years. I'd say that the corps we have, especially Kennison, have done well enough.

That's true, but at some point, some WR's need to produce. I haven't seen Parker produce, at least up to my standards, as well with Crap Thorpe, and I'm probably forgetting some other WR's that was selected/signed as a Rookie Undrafted FA's.

unothadeal
01-17-2007, 06:24 PM
Isn't Charlie Joiner the black guy on ABC at 1 oclock in the morning

milkman
01-17-2007, 06:39 PM
The Chiefs have done a shitty job of acquiring WR talent in Carl's 18 years here.

The last decent WR to run through KC before Kennison is who?
Carlos Carson?

The one time Carl did find an actual receiver with talent, Marty didn't use him, and he went on to New Orleans.

I'm willing to wait until Joiner has some actual talent to work with before I proclaim him a shitty coach.

Chiefnj
01-17-2007, 06:50 PM
I will proclaim him a crappy coach. Green developed into a Pro Bowl QB and Huard was able to come off the bench and play at a high level, yet Shea gets fired.

The Chiefs haven't developed a WR in years, couldn't get young WR's on the field this year, couldn't get Gardner on the field this year, the receivers rarely get good separation and are always dropping balls, yet Joyner still has a job? He should have been the sacrificial lamb this offseason.

pikesome
01-17-2007, 06:51 PM
The Chiefs have done a shitty job of acquiring WR talent in Carl's 18 years here.

The last decent WR to run through KC before Kennison is who?
Carlos Carson?

The one time Carl did find an actual receiver with talent, Marty didn't use him, and he went on to New Orleans.

I'm willing to wait until Joiner has some actual talent to work with before I proclaim him a shitty coach.

I'm reminded of the old chestnut, "you can't polish a turd". I don't know that Parker doesn't have the talent but so far he hasn't given us any other reason for his lack of real production.

milkman
01-17-2007, 07:10 PM
I will proclaim him a crappy coach. Green developed into a Pro Bowl QB and Huard was able to come off the bench and play at a high level, yet Shea gets fired.

The Chiefs haven't developed a WR in years, couldn't get young WR's on the field this year, couldn't get Gardner on the field this year, the receivers rarely get good separation and are always dropping balls, yet Joyner still has a job? He should have been the sacrificial lamb this offseason.

Al Saunders never developed a WR in KC either.

But he had a hell of a group in StL.

Sometimes it is simply about talent.

milkman
01-17-2007, 07:12 PM
I'm reminded of the old chestnut, "you can't polish a turd". I don't know that Parker doesn't have the talent but so far he hasn't given us any other reason for his lack of real production.

Parker lacks concentration.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-17-2007, 07:44 PM
Snoop Minnis, Crap Thorpe, Richard Smith, Boerigter, Chris Horn....

I don't really think that any of these guys cut the mustard so to speak, but even with that being said, I've yet to see him take someone with marginal talent and have them produce above that level.

jspchief
01-17-2007, 07:50 PM
I haven't seen anything to make me consider him a good coach. That doesn't neccessarily mean he's bad. But he's shown nothing to prove he's good either.

I think the complex offense that requires precise routes and timing combined with a QB that has admitted he's slow to trust new wideouts plays a big role too. That's why I consider Herm's comments about simplifying the offense good news.

milkman
01-17-2007, 07:51 PM
Snoop Minnis, Crap Thorpe, Richard Smith, Boerigter, Chris Horn....

I don't really think that any of these guys cut the mustard so to speak, but even with that being said, I've yet to see him take someone with marginal talent and have them produce above that level.

That's true, but when discussing WRs, the player that produces above his level is usually the #3, and sometimes the #2, on a team that has a true #1.

FringeNC
01-17-2007, 08:01 PM
I haven't seen anything to make me consider him a good coach. That doesn't neccessarily mean he's bad. But he's shown nothing to prove he's good either.

I think the complex offense that requires precise routes and timing combined with a QB that has admitted he's slow to trust new wideouts plays a big role too. That's why I consider Herm's comments about simplifying the offense good news.

Simplifying an offense is a ticket to having 9-7 seasons with no hope for playoff success. Simple offenses simply don't work in the playoffs, unless you have a defense like the Ravens did a few years ago.

jspchief
01-17-2007, 08:09 PM
Simplifying an offense is a ticket to having 9-7 seasons with no hope for playoff success. Simple offenses simply don't work in the playoffs, unless you have a defense like the Ravens did a few years ago.Complex offenses with no players that can execute them are even more worthless.

We need to run plays that our players can actually execute. Running complex routes that are even slower to develop because of lousy WRs, combined with an O-line that can't protect the QB leads to the abortion we saw against the Colts.

The Vermeil era offense is gone. The players we had that could execute it are either retired or need to retire. It's time to move on, and the first step is installing an offense that fits the players on the team rather than forcing square pegs into round holes.

FringeNC
01-17-2007, 08:12 PM
Complex offenses with no players that can execute them are even more worthless.

We need to run plays that our players can actually execute. Running complex routes that are even slower to develop because of lousy WRs, combined with an O-line that can't protect the QB leads to the abortion we saw against the Colts.

The Vermeil era offense is gone. The players we had that could execute it are either retired or need to retire. It's time to move on, and the first step is installing an offense that fits the players on the team rather than forcing square pegs into round holes.

I'd rather make the investment in a complex offense (and the possibility of a terrible year) that has some upside rather than go simple and have no chance to make noise in the playoffs.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-17-2007, 08:16 PM
The f*cking Marty years are back. Awesome :rolleyes:

stevieray
01-17-2007, 08:20 PM
Complex offenses with no players that can execute them are even more worthless.

We need to run plays that our players can actually execute. Running complex routes that are even slower to develop because of lousy WRs, combined with an O-line that can't protect the QB leads to the abortion we saw against the Colts.

The Vermeil era offense is gone. The players we had that could execute it are either retired or need to retire. It's time to move on, and the first step is installing an offense that fits the players on the team rather than forcing square pegs into round holes.

yup. I look for major changes.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-17-2007, 08:23 PM
yup. I look for major changes.

My how easily the masses are fooled. One year after having to quell a near insurrection due to fear of the fans' reaction to killing the old offense, Herm kills it through his coordinator, and then when he advocates for change the monkeys in the red seats react with thunderous applause.

stevieray
01-17-2007, 08:30 PM
My how easily the masses are fooled. One year after having to quell a near insurrection due to fear of the fans' reaction to killing the old offense, Herm kills it through his coordinator, and then when he advocates for change the monkeys in the red seats react with thunderous applause.

you don't have a clue.

Bowser
01-17-2007, 08:34 PM
I wouldn't mind it if Solari stepped out of the OC seat nad let Joiner have a crack at it. I doubt Saunders has as good a grasp on the offense as Joiner does.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-17-2007, 08:38 PM
you don't have a clue.

Why? Because I don't play dress up?

The fact of the matter is that regardless of who *was* here, Herm wanted to change this offense from the get-go. Now he has his excuse, and people act like it is a justifiable one, when in reality, it's anything but....

He wants to change his O to a simplified "smashmouth" scheme, and that requires a large-scale change in personnel. How is that different than just augmenting the personnel we already have in place and keeping a system that we 1) know works and 2) is far more likely to produce in the playoffs.

Clapping your hands like a wind-up Cymbal Monkey doesn't mean that you have a clue, it means you're a mindless sycophant.

These changes are cutting off our nose to spite our face.

jspchief
01-17-2007, 08:56 PM
My how easily the masses are fooled. One year after having to quell a near insurrection due to fear of the fans' reaction to killing the old offense, Herm kills it through his coordinator, and then when he advocates for change the monkeys in the red seats react with thunderous applause.Whatever....

My opinion is that execution > creativity.

Give the players something they can do really well. It's no different than taking the sweeps out of our running game because it's not LJ's strength.

Instead of asking our young wideouts to run complex routes that causes them to think more than play, we have them run the routes the yare best at. Instead of expecting our QB to trust that the young WRs are going to have their timing down perfect, we give him looks that make for fast checkdowns.

You don't have to be the greatest show on turf to be a championship football team. In fact, complex offenses have been the exception when it comes to Superbowl winners.

FAX
01-17-2007, 09:01 PM
It does appear that people have quickly gotten used to the idea that our whacked-out, ridiculously potent, circus offense is gone forever.

I haven't, though. I still don't see why you can't have a high-scoring offense and a good defense at the same time. Plus, I'll never forgive Herm for lying to us. Never. Even if he wins the superbowl. Well, maybe then, but not before.

FAX

stevieray
01-17-2007, 09:05 PM
Why? Because I don't play dress up?

The fact of the matter is that regardless of who *was* here, Herm wanted to change this offense from the get-go. Now he has his excuse, and people act like it is a justifiable one, when in reality, it's anything but....

He wants to change his O to a simplified "smashmouth" scheme, and that requires a large-scale change in personnel. How is that different than just augmenting the personnel we already have in place and keeping a system that we 1) know works and 2) is far more likely to produce in the playoffs.

Clapping your hands like a wind-up Cymbal Monkey doesn't mean that you have a clue, it means you're a mindless sycophant.

These changes are cutting off our nose to spite our face.

dress up? are you that easily intimidated? is that why you adressed my agreement instead of responding to jsp's post?

I haven't endorsed or justified a damn thing, other than I'm looking for, rather, hoping for changes that need to be made. as jsp stated, the offense we all loved is gone, and incapable of returning....the pieces just aren't there. who knows what will happen..or even if it will be for the better or worse....somethings gotta give, and I hope it is a youth movement.

Clapping my hands? Just because I don't engage in overdramatized and overcompensating rants doesn't mean that I don't bash this team or organization...but if you need to project your BS to validate your own negative feelings about the situation, pile it on....It's not that heavy.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-17-2007, 09:08 PM
Whatever....

My opinion is that execution > creativity.

Give the players something they can do really well. It's no different than taking the sweeps out of our running game because it's not LJ's strength.

Instead of asking our young wideouts to run complex routes that causes them to think more than play, we have them run the routes the yare best at. Instead of expecting our QB to trust that the young WRs are going to have their timing down perfect, we give him looks that make for fast checkdowns.

You don't have to be the greatest show on turf to be a championship football team. In fact, complex offenses have been the exception when it comes to Superbowl winners.

You are giving Herm way too much credit, IMO. His offenses w/ the Jets are far more indicative of what he'd like to create than any bullshit he spouts at the podium He will lack creativity and imagination, and we'll most likely hover around 22-24 for the next several years.

You act like the routes that these WRs have to run are difficult...they aren't, not at all...The Rams have plugged in a dick ton of rookie WR over the last several years and most have produced very well. They may take longer to develop, but there is nothing intrinsically more difficult about a 20 yard square in than a 7 yard hook.

Do you really think Jeff Webb is going to say, "Wait, I have to run 15 yards and turn right?? That's TUFF!"

You don't have to be the greatest show on turf, but you don't have to be the f#cking Bucs either, and everything that Herm has done so far indicates that is the direction he'd like us to go in. I think it's a recipe for failure on both sides of the ball.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-17-2007, 09:11 PM
dress up? are you that easily intimidated? is that why you adressed my agreement instead of responding to jsp's post?

I haven't endorsed or justified a damn thing, other than I'm looking for, rather, hoping for changes that need to be made. as jsp stated, the offense we all loved is gone, and incapable of returning....the pieces just aren't there. who knows what will happen..or even if it will be for the better or worse....somethings gotta give, and I hope it is a youth movement.

Clapping my hands? Just because I don't engage in overdramatized and overcompensating rants doesn't mean that I don't bash this team or organization...but if you need to project your BS to validate your own negative feelings about the situation, pile it on....It's not that heavy.

Thanks Dr. Freud, but I think you'll see most of your psychoanalytic analysis addressed in the above post.

I'm going to posit this question to you again:

You have to rebuild or tinker with an O again, do you want:

1) to rebuild a Coryell system that is proven to work

or

2) to rebuild in Herm's eye, which has produced nothing but subpar offenses...

It's not rocket scientist. Any logical person will tell you they'd like #1 over #2, but Herm won't. He's a coaching dinosaur who still believes that a 1950's gameplan can succeed in the NFL. It can't, and it won't.

pikesome
01-17-2007, 09:18 PM
You don't have to be the greatest show on turf to be a championship football team. In fact, complex offenses have been the exception when it comes to Superbowl winners.

Don't the Vermeil Chiefs and the Manning Colts prove this point? Both teams have put some stunning Os on the field and shat themselves in January or earlier.

stevieray
01-17-2007, 09:20 PM
Thanks Dr. Freud, but I think you'll see most of your psychoanalytic analysis addressed in the above post.

I'm going to posit this question to you again:

You have to rebuild or tinker with an O again, do you want:

1) to rebuild a Coryell system that is proven to work

or

2) to rebuild in Herm's eye, which has produced nothing but subpar offenses...

It's not rocket scientist. Any logical person will tell you they'd like #1 over #2, but Herm won't. He's a coaching dinosaur who still believes that a 1950's gameplan can succeed in the NFL. It can't, and it won't.

Freud? ironic..considering you think looking for change equals 'mindless sychophant'...

Again, you and I don't have a clue what changes will be made...neither in personell or scheme. I just know that the patchwork doesn't work either. It hasn't. And won't.

And interesting that Indy is winning with the gameplan of a good running game and good defense, in spite of bad QB play.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-17-2007, 09:21 PM
Don't the Vermeil Chiefs and the Manning Colts prove this point? Both teams have put some stunning Os on the field and shat themselves in January or earlier.

I'm not saying completely abandon/mismanage the D as these teams have done, but Dallas, St. Louis, and others prove that you can win it all with the Coryell O.

I'm looking for a nuanced version of football, a good O and a good D, and you will not, WILL NOT EVER get a good O playing just smashmouth in the modern NFL.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-17-2007, 09:22 PM
Freud? ironic..considering you think looking for change equals 'mindless sychophant'...

Again, you and I don't have a clue what changes will be made...neither in personell or scheme. I just know that the patchwork doesn't work either. It hasn't. And won't.

So you rebuild in the image of what has worked across several teams, not what has repeatedly failed.

The mindless sycophant comes from your open embrace of Herm's policy even though he's proven to everyone, (just ask bill parcells) that he doesn't know rat shit from rice krispies when it comes to offense.

jspchief
01-17-2007, 09:23 PM
You act like the routes that these WRs have to run are difficult...they aren't, not at all...The Rams have plugged in a dick ton of rookie WR over the last several years and most have produced very well. They may take longer to develop, but there is nothing intrinsically more difficult about a 20 yard square in than a 7 yard hook.

Do you really think Jeff Webb is going to say, "Wait, I have to run 15 yards and turn right?? That's TUFF!"I'm not sure you understand what Vermeil's offense was about.

Maybe you need to go back and read some of Green's quotes over the years about the reliance on precision and timing. It's not just about running 15 yards and turning. It's about turning in the exact spot at the exact time so that the QB can release the ball before you make your cut. Those types of details are what keep the rookies busy thinking instead of just doing what they do. And the slow development of those plays also require our O-line to be stout... which it isn't.

I want to be the #1 offense in the league as much as anyone... but it's not going to happen with these players, and it's not going to be fixed in one off-season. So you tailor your offense to your players instead of trying to force yoru players on something they can't do well.

You can guess at what Herm is going to turn this into, but you're only guessing. The one thing we know for sure is that we don't have the players to be the Vermeil offense anymore. Let it go.

Mark M
01-17-2007, 09:23 PM
The f*cking Marty years are back. Awesome :rolleyes:

Actually, Marty's offense in San Diego seemed to work fairly well this year.

I understand what you're getting at, but there's just one simple fact: Trying to simply plug in players into the DV system is a lot harder than you think, especially since the main cog in that system is an RB who can catch a pass. LJ can't. Hell, the WRs couldn't catch a case of the clap off a Craigslist hookup.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not fan of the fullback up the center's ass on third and 11. But a lot of that has more to do with the O-coordinator calling the plays than some "philosophy."

Just look at the Patriots and/or Steelers (of last year). They're by no means high-powered, but effective not because of the system they run, but because they run the plays well, and mix it up enough to keep defenses guessing.

And that's the key. I don't give a damn if it's the 1999 Rams or the 1954 Browns -- if you execute the plays and don't become predictable, it'll work.

Just my $.02 ... keep the change.

MM
~~:arrow:

stevieray
01-17-2007, 09:27 PM
So you rebuild in the image of what has worked across several teams, not what has repeatedly failed.

The mindless sycophant comes from your open embrace of Herm's policy even though he's proven to everyone, (just ask bill parcells) that he doesn't know rat shit from rice krispies when it comes to offense.

please provide an example of my open embrace of herm's policy....considering we haven't seen his policy other than with a shell of what DV had.


This offseason is huge, in many ways.

pikesome
01-17-2007, 09:55 PM
I'm not saying completely abandon/mismanage the D as these teams have done, but Dallas, St. Louis, and others prove that you can win it all with the Coryell O.

I'm looking for a nuanced version of football, a good O and a good D, and you will not, WILL NOT EVER get a good O playing just smashmouth in the modern NFL.

Wasn't Seattle's SB team built around good lines, a great RB, decent WRs? I can't say what we're going to get here, I doubt Herm knows for sure right now, but I think we could still do decent if we could get our lines squared away and find another, reliable, pass catcher.

FringeNC
01-17-2007, 09:57 PM
Actually, Marty's offense in San Diego seemed to work fairly well this year.
~~:arrow:

Because he was running OUR old offense, and was put in a straight jacket after the Baltimore loss by AJ Smith. Damn Dick Vermeil for suggesting Cam Cameron to Marty.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-17-2007, 10:04 PM
I'm not sure you understand what Vermeil's offense was about.

Maybe you need to go back and read some of Green's quotes over the years about the reliance on precision and timing. It's not just about running 15 yards and turning. It's about turning in the exact spot at the exact time so that the QB can release the ball before you make your cut. Those types of details are what keep the rookies busy thinking instead of just doing what they do. And the slow development of those plays also require our O-line to be stout... which it isn't.

I want to be the #1 offense in the league as much as anyone... but it's not going to happen with these players, and it's not going to be fixed in one off-season. So you tailor your offense to your players instead of trying to force yoru players on something they can't do well.

You can guess at what Herm is going to turn this into, but you're only guessing. The one thing we know for sure is that we don't have the players to be the Vermeil offense anymore. Let it go.


I'm not sure that you understand the way that WR in the NFL works....it is one of the most difficult positions to make an immediate impact.Anyone will tell you that it takes a full 3 years before you are going to see what a WR is really made of. To you really think that the WCO offense is predicated any less on timing than the Coryell Offense? If so, you're delusional.

Furthermore, I fully agree that this won't be fixed in 1 year, and I think that trying to go smashmouth is 1) what Herm wanted, and 2) the embracing of it is a panic move which directly corresponds with a desire to change it all in one year, which is a huge mistake.

All good O's are built around a solid line, but a solid line will not always give you a great O unless you have good playcalling and a reliable QB. I'm onboard buidling the O-line anew, but I also think that once this job is done that we use it for the Coryell scheme, rather than Hermyball, which will negate the strengths of a truly good OL.

And finally, I don't have to guess what Herm is going to do, Herm is what he is, he showed what he wanted to do when he had carte blanche in NY. If he changed the D here when we had the worst possible collection of players for that scheme, what makes you think that he is going to be any less dilatory when it comes to changing the O? There is a huge disconnect there.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-17-2007, 10:07 PM
....considering we haven't seen his policy other than with a shell of what DV had.


This offseason is huge, in many ways.

See: New York Jets 2001-05

Offensive Ranks: 26 23 21 12 30

It's not like he didn't have talent either:

Curtis Martin, Chad Pennington, L. Coles, Santana Moss, Cotchery, Kevin Mawae....he had tools on those teams and their O's still bit ass

Bill Parcells
01-17-2007, 10:26 PM
Herm had some great offensive weapons when he was with the Jets..one year..the Jets had Pennington at QB..Santana Moss,L Coles and Wayne Chrebet at WR and Curtis Martin at RB..with a very good offensive line...and he still played the stupid, predictable,conservative offense that we all saw on display against the Colts..

I once thought..gee..it doesn't matter if we have a HOF lineup..he is going to continue to be the stubborn **** he is,and play idiot ball..thats my 0.02 cents on the talent issue..

greg63
01-17-2007, 10:31 PM
Herm had some great offensive weapons when he was with the Jets..one year..the Jets had Pennington at QB..Santana Moss,L Coles and Wayne Chrebet at WR and Curtis Martin at RB..with a very good offensive line...and he still played the stupid, predictable,conservative offense that we all saw on display against the Colts..

I once thought..gee..it doesn't matter if we have a HOF lineup..he is going to continue to be the stubborn **** he is,and play idiot ball..thats my 0.02 cents on the talent issue..


...And he has stated in the interview with King Carl that he does not care about the offense. Those were not his exact words, but that is what I heard him saying between the lines; sort of speak.

stevieray
01-17-2007, 10:32 PM
See: New York Jets 2001-05

Offensive Ranks: 26 23 21 12 30

It's not like he didn't have talent either:

Curtis Martin, Chad Pennington, L. Coles, Santana Moss, Cotchery, Kevin Mawae....he had tools on those teams and their O's still bit ass

see coaching turnstile...head coaches get mutliple chances with other teams..this is Herm's second team..it's too early to chisel anything into stone.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-17-2007, 10:36 PM
see coaching turnstile...head coaches get mutliple chances with other teams..this is Herm's second team..it's too early to chisel anything into stone.

This really makes absolutely no sense.

John Gruden
Mike Holmgren
Steve Mariucci
Bill Parcells

Just to name a few....


What do all of these coaches have in common? A) They've coached multiple teams, and B) they've installed the same systems everywhere they've gone.

Mecca
01-17-2007, 10:38 PM
Herm still thinks the NFL is played like it was when he was a player........that's all it boils down to.

Bill Parcells
01-17-2007, 10:39 PM
Herm still thinks the NFL is played like it was when he was a player........that's all it boils down to.
Bingo!

FringeNC
01-17-2007, 10:39 PM
see coaching turnstile...head coaches get mutliple chances with other teams..this is Herm's second team..it's too early to chisel anything into stone.

Herm's moves and rhetoric thus far aren't sufficient?

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-17-2007, 10:40 PM
Herm still thinks the NFL is played like it was when he was a player........that's all it boils down to.

Agreed...see the bottom of post 33.

Mecca
01-17-2007, 10:42 PM
Agreed...see the bottom of post 33.

Yep that's exactly it.......Herm doesn't notice all the rules changes and how much the game is geared toward offense, especially passing offense right now.

It's very difficult to win just running the ball and playing defense now because well almost every team scores points these days.

stevieray
01-17-2007, 10:47 PM
Herm's moves and rhetoric thus far aren't sufficient?

which moves?

FringeNC
01-17-2007, 10:48 PM
Yep that's exactly it.......Herm doesn't notice all the rules changes and how much the game is geared toward offense, especially passing offense right now.

It's very difficult to win just running the ball and playing defense now because well almost every team scores points these days.

That's letting Herm off the hook too easy. The pass-happy AFL was around in those days.

Herm is just clueless about what it takes to succeed in the playoffs. He thinks if you can just get to the playoffs, it's a crap shoot who wins. It's not. He thinks if he can just play it not to lose, and get in, then one of these years it will be his year.

FringeNC
01-17-2007, 10:49 PM
which moves?

Castrating Solari.

Mecca
01-17-2007, 10:49 PM
That's letting Herm off the hook too easy. The pass-happy AFL was around in those days.

Herm is just clueless about what it takes to succeed in the playoffs. He thinks if you can just get to the playoffs, it's a crap shoot who wins. It's not. He thinks if he can just play it not to lose, and get in, then one of these years it will be his year.

Peterson thinks that too......Listen to how many times he'll say that you just have to get into "the tournament" and then anything can happen.

jspchief
01-17-2007, 10:50 PM
Castrating Solari.Total speculation.

Extra Point
01-17-2007, 10:55 PM
....then one of these years it will be his year.

Yeah, when they find a way to clone Stram from DNA samples, Hank will be the OC. Until then, Hank is up in heaven, shaking his head on Sundays.

stevieray
01-17-2007, 10:59 PM
Castrating Solari.

Castrating Solari? I think retirements, suspensions, FA and injuries castrated mike solari's first year as OC...and isn't it his scheme we are implementing?

Don't you think we would've played better if all those losses on O didn't happen?


the offseason moves will tell us a lot.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-17-2007, 11:07 PM
Castrating Solari? I think retirements, suspensions, FA and injuries castrated mike solari's first year as OC...and isn't it his scheme we are implementing?

Don't you think we would've played better if all those losses on O didn't happen?


the offseason moves will tell us a lot.

Like Roaf being out for half of last year and hobbled for the rest?
Like Wellbourne getting suspended last year?

Yet we still managed to put up a hell of a lot more points AND yardage. b/c we were diverse on offense, we didn't run up Wiegmann's ass *2, then pass in a known passing situation where the DE's can pin their ears back, and then punt.

We played shitty D's most of this year. The D's last year were tougher.