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Deberg_1990
01-17-2007, 05:34 PM
Yet another Marty story from JW...im not sure i agree with him 100% but an interesting read....

Herm has at least won a few big playoff games recently...2004 over Marty's Bolts...

2002 big win over the Colts....


http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/football/nfl/kansas_city_chiefs/16476340.htm

Watching Marty Schottenheimer lose another playoff game made me think of Herm Edwards.

The Chargers’ loss to the Patriots seemed similar to Kansas City’s loss to Indianapolis. Schottenheimer’s offense choked. The receivers dropped routine passes. The clock was mismanaged. The game plan failed to make the proper adjustments (LaDainian Tomlinson had just nine touches in the second half). There were mental errors caused by a lack of emotional control.

Before the game, ESPN ran a graphic of the coaches with the poorest playoff winning percentages. Marty and Herm were both on the list.

There’s a connection. They are not bad coaches. To the contrary, they’re good coaches. In the regular season, Marty Schottenheimer is as good as any coach in football. Herm isn’t far behind. So what happens in the playoffs? What happens when the stakes are elevated?

Herm says the playoffs are different. I believe him. I also believe he and Schottenheimer don’t coach nearly as effectively in the playoffs.

And that’s why, as much as the Chiefs need to address their personnel shortcomings this offseason, Herm also needs to examine his coaching method. Fiery, emotional defensive-minded head coaches — Edwards and Schottenheimer — don’t perform in the playoffs as well as their more reserved counterparts.

Yes, Bill Cowher, The Chin, a fire-and-brimstone, defensive-minded coach, won the most recent Super Bowl, but it probably took him longer to win one than it should’ve, and his triumph from a sixth seed was more than a bit lucky.

Before Cowher, the Super Bowl-winning coaches were Bill Belichick, Jon Gruden, Brian Billick, Dick Vermeil, Mike Shanahan, Mike Holmgren, Barry Switzer, George Seifert, Jimmy Johnson, Joe Gibbs, Bill Parcells and Bill Walsh. For the most part, that’s a pretty stoic group. Switzer and Parcells would be the glaring exceptions. But I’m not sure they’re really exceptions. Parcells has never won a Super Bowl without Belichick as his sidekick. And Switzer was nothing more than a caretaker/comedy routine for what Jimmy Johnson had built.

What do Schottenheimer and Edwards lack? The ability to get offensive players to relax and perform at their highest level in big games. Defense is emotional. Offense is intellectual. It’s a difficult balance to feed half your team the emotional energy it needs to hunt and kill, and feed the other half of your team the calm and confidence it needs to counterattack the opposition’s defensive aggression.

You feed the offense too much emotion, and the players crack. They drop passes. They miss assignments. They draw foolish penalties. They burn timeouts. Maybe after the game they whine about the opposition celebrating too much.

“They showed no class,” Tomlinson said of the Patriots, “and maybe that comes from the head coach.”

The Chargers showed no composure. And maybe that comes from the head coach?

When Bill Snyder had the Kansas State football program winning 10 or 11 games every year, Snyder employed crazed defensive coordinators and defensive assistants who transferred their emotion to the players. Meanwhile, Snyder worked the offensive side of the ball and the team overall with the precision of a scientist.

Emotion is best served to a football team from the bottom. A head coach functions best putting a lid on emotion rather than providing it. When the ultimate leader lights the flame, it’s easy for the fire to burn out of control. Watching the Chargers draw costly personal fouls against the Patriots reminded me of Marty’s last year in Kansas City and the lack of emotional discipline that engulfed the 1998 Chiefs.

Bottom line: Marty- and Herm-coached teams are prone to choke, especially on the offensive side of the ball. That’s not a product of poor personnel. It’s a product of head coaches feeding their teams too much emotion. Herm’s preacher routine works great in the offseason, and it inspires a team never to give up no matter the circumstances during the regular season.

But when you need to win one game, preaching and talking about the “gleam” don’t get the job done.

BucEyedPea
01-17-2007, 06:25 PM
How can he say Gruden is unemotional. My god, he's always screamin' and yellin' on the sidelines. But Brad Johnson, Buc's SB QB, was level headed and didn't make a lot of mistakes.

I agree that Chargers did not have emotional discipline...trash talking before the game etc. and overconfidence falls in here, imo...such as planning a parade the next day at 3PM. LOL. I'd say that kinda emotionalism would lead to foolish penalties. You display your emotion AFTER you win the game.

They knew how to win on paper. :p

the Talking Can
01-17-2007, 07:12 PM
"Before Cowher, the Super Bowl-winning coaches were Bill Belichick, Jon Gruden, Brian Billick, Dick Vermeil, Mike Shanahan, Mike Holmgren, Barry Switzer, George Seifert, Jimmy Johnson, Joe Gibbs, Bill Parcells and Bill Walsh. For the most part, that’s a pretty stoic group. Switzer and Parcells would be the glaring exceptions. But I’m not sure they’re really exceptions. Parcells has never won a Super Bowl without Belichick as his sidekick. And Switzer was nothing more than a caretaker/comedy routine for what Jimmy Johnson had built."


more to the point, most of those teams had dynamic offenses....something Herm has made clear he neither wants not understands....we're stuck with a Neanderthal....

BucEyedPea
01-17-2007, 07:15 PM
more to the point, most of those teams had dynamic offenses....something Herm has made clear he neither wants not understands....we're stuck with a Neanderthal....

I wouldn't say the Buc's offense was exactly dynamic. We had enough of one to win and our running game improved by then. We had a top defense. Gruden had a more dynamic offense in the Raiders. Bucs also played the Raiders that year, who had no changes in their playbook which Gruden knew very well. I'd say this gave us an advantage in preparation.

the Talking Can
01-17-2007, 07:26 PM
I wouldn't say the Buc's offense was exactly dynamic. We had enough of one to win and our running game improved by then. We had a top defense. Gruden had a more dynamic offense in the Raiders. Bucs also played the Raiders that year, who had no changes in their playbook which Gruden knew very well. I'd say this gave us an advantage in preparation.

well, that's why I used the qualifier "most"....

milkman
01-17-2007, 07:34 PM
well, that's why I used the qualifier "most"....

Next to Herman ****ing Edwards Neanderthal offense, it was dynamic.

FringeNC
01-17-2007, 07:53 PM
Bottom line: Marty- and Herm-coached teams are prone to choke, especially on the offensive side of the ball.

Funny. Marty's teams didn't choke on offense when Montana was here. I don't buy the emotion argument. It's simpler than that. It's the play-calling. Other than when Marty had Montana, and Montana probably would have just audibled out of Marty's crap anyway, Herm and Marty have the philosophy that they don't want the QB to lose the game for them. Of course, playing not to lose in the playoffs is a sure way ...to lose.

Marty has finally learned his lesson or had it forced on him, because he didn't play not to lose against New England. I see no indication that Herm Edwards will ever learn the lesson.

Extra Point
01-17-2007, 07:55 PM
Herm is Marty-Lite. Whitlock is Jabba-Lite....

BucEyedPea
01-17-2007, 07:55 PM
Next to Herman ****ing Edwards Neanderthal offense, it was dynamic.
Well, on second thought, you're quite right.
I saw that game and rooted for you guys.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-17-2007, 08:04 PM
It's important to note that Herm's playoff wins are against teams from the Marty tree, in Marty and Dungy. Were they against different coaches, his winning % might be even worse....

Dungy has always underperformed in the playoffs...replace a Marty-tree coach w/ Gruden and they win the SB.

Cowher was 2-4 in AFC CH. games, and only won last year b/c he was gift-wrapped the game by the official.

There is something about that style of coaching that is inimical to success.

B_Ambuehl
01-17-2007, 09:00 PM
Herm says the playoffs are different.

That's Herm's problem right there. Just look what rookies do wehn they first come to the NFL.....mental error after mental error...players who think things are different and are nervous are more prone to f*** things up and choke...particularly at positions that require a lot of thought.