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View Full Version : Simplified Offense: To help young players or young coordinators?


jAZ
01-17-2007, 11:41 PM
All the talk about Sean Payton and his amazing ability to run an offense with creative and unexpected play calling has me thinking about Herm's last Press Conference and his comments about simplifying the offense in order to permit younger players (ie, QB) to succeed sooner.

While that might be part of this thinking... combined with his Marty-ball instincts... I think suspect that part of the challenge with our offense last season might not be a result of Herm handcuffing the offense because he hates good offense... but a result of having a offensive line coach calling the plays.

The play selection seems to be a huge part of the effectiveness of any great offense... whether it's Indy and the audibles or the Saints and Sean Payton or Boise State the trick plays.

I suspect that Solari might have been the best "manager" remaining on the staff, but when put into the booth, he didn't have the background to effectlive call the plays in a way that was needed to keep our offense at or near the top.

So out of loyalty to a very good person... and made very easy by the fact that doing so would fit his coaching philosphy... Herm kept Solari and dumbed down the offense.

I wonder if Terry Shea, Mike Martz, Al Saunders or even Charlie Joiner had been promoted to OC... would we still have dumped the offense?

FAX
01-17-2007, 11:43 PM
Great post. I don't think we would have dumped the O if Saunders was still here, Mr. jAZ.

At this point, I'm convinced that, when Herm says "yes", he means "no". With that in mind, if he says a thing is for the players, I think he means it's for the the coaches. And, basically, it's all for Herm.

FAX

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-18-2007, 12:06 AM
Great post. I don't think we would have dumped the O if Saunders was still here, Mr. jAZ.

At this point, I'm convinced that, when Herm says "yes", he means "no". With that in mind, if he says a thing is for the players, I think he means it's for the the coaches. And, basically, it's all for Herm.

FAX

Herm is the Jimmy Swaggert of the NFL.

Bill Parcells
01-18-2007, 12:08 AM
I still can't figure out how you fire Terry Shea after the way he had Huard playing early on..it makes no sense..and Hermy certainly gave no explanation..

greg63
01-18-2007, 12:20 AM
I still can't figure out how you fire Terry Shea after the way he had Huard playing early on..it makes no sense..and Hermy certainly gave no explanation..

Herm=Marty.

Smed1065
01-18-2007, 12:28 AM
I am not Herm or anti-Herm but I believe he is like many in the NFL and he wants his coaches and staff regardless. I could be wrong but most NFL players and coaches have large egos and if it does not happen "their" way, then it is no way. IMO

J Diddy
01-18-2007, 12:33 AM
Herm=Marty.


i disagree=that statement

PastorMikH
01-18-2007, 12:35 AM
Part of me wonders if we simplified the Offense for Herm's sake. Kinda hard for a HC to change the play coming through the headset if he doesn't know what it is.

BWillie
01-18-2007, 12:41 AM
I think Herm's lost it. He already cut the playbook in half, and the players were already complaining about it. To cut it down further is simply suicide for a offense. I don't know what he's planning to do? Run the draw, off tackle, and 10 yard out to Kennison and that's it? Yeah Herm, lets be more ****ing predictible you asshat

PastorMikH
01-18-2007, 12:42 AM
Herm=Marty.



Eh, I don't know. One thing about Marty is he wasn't locked into one philosophy of play. He changed both the O and D schemes several times here trying to make a difference. He just couldn't change himself in the playoffs when we would be up by a FG halfway through the 3rd and he'd go to ball controll/prevent.


Herm seems to want to do things his way and his way alone.

J Diddy
01-18-2007, 12:42 AM
Part of me wonders if we simplified the Offense for Herm's sake. Kinda hard for a HC to change the play coming through the headset if he doesn't know what it is.

oh for crying out loud come on


everybody knows what a raspberry black 33 razor twin split right sunburst is

Halfcan
01-18-2007, 12:45 AM
Herm's wife told him she didn't understand football-so he is making it easier for her. Run run pass punt.

greg63
01-18-2007, 12:45 AM
Eh, I don't know. One thing about Marty is he wasn't locked into one philosophy of play. He changed both the O and D schemes several times here trying to make a difference. He just couldn't change himself in the playoffs when we would be up by a FG halfway through the 3rd and he'd go to ball controll/prevent.

I stand on my original statement.
Herm seems to want to do things his way and his way alone.Herm is an idiot. JMO

PastorMikH
01-18-2007, 12:47 AM
I think Herm's lost it. He already cut the playbook in half, and the players were already complaining about it. To cut it down further is simply suicide for a offense. I don't know what he's planning to do?



IMO, the only real option that would work would be to toss this playbook in the can and start over with a completely different O system. Trying to simplify what we have now will kill it completely. If he wants an easier system, bring a simpler system in. Don't try to make this one easy. I don't think you can simplify this system and be successful because what makes this system sucessful is the mis-directions, shifting and so on that make it complicated.

PastorMikH
01-18-2007, 12:48 AM
oh for crying out loud come on


everybody knows what a raspberry black 33 razor twin split right sunburst is


Raspberry? I thought it was blueberry! No wonder I've been out of position!

keg in kc
01-18-2007, 12:49 AM
We'll see over the next couple of years, but I'm standing by the idea that the offense in 2006 was a product of Jordan Black, rotating shitty right tackles and the age/deterioration of Wiegmann and Shields. Even more that than Green looking like Joke Plummer's older brother when he came back.

You can scheme all you want, but if your line is overmatched, you're not going to do anything but tread water and punt.

PastorMikH
01-18-2007, 12:53 AM
I stand on my original statement.
Herm is an idiot. JMO



My point is, at least Marty realized the need for a good O to compliment the D and he tried to bring it about. He choked and went into his conservative shell when the chips were on the table.

Herm on the other hand, seems to think that the O's only job is to give the D a rest and take time off the clock. If the O can manage a FG while giving the D a rest, that's icing on the cake.

el borracho
01-18-2007, 01:16 AM
Hmm, I probably don't know what I am talking about but I imagine that "simplify" means less shifting before the snap and probably less pulling by the Oline. Our previous Oline was very good at pulling and getting out into space. I'm not sure our current Oline can do that. I could be wrong but I think simplify means just that- the plays are simpler to learn and execute. I don't think it means less plays in the playbook.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-18-2007, 02:24 AM
We'll see over the next couple of years, but I'm standing by the idea that the offense in 2006 was a product of Jordan Black, rotating shitty right tackles and the age/deterioration of Wiegmann and Shields. Even more that than Green looking like Joke Plummer's older brother when he came back.

You can scheme all you want, but if your line is overmatched, you're not going to do anything but tread water and punt.

Unless you have Willie Roaf blocking for you, you aren't going to be able to stop anyone when you are put in known pass protection situations 15-18 times a game like we seemingly are with Hermyball.

King_Chief_Fan
01-18-2007, 07:02 AM
oh for crying out loud come on


everybody knows what a raspberry black 33 razor twin split right sunburst is

you bet......... I shaved with one this mornining

greg63
01-18-2007, 07:32 AM
My point is, at least Marty realized the need for a good O to compliment the D and he tried to bring it about. He choked and went into his conservative shell when the chips were on the table.

Herm on the other hand, seems to think that the O's only job is to give the D a rest and take time off the clock. If the O can manage a FG while giving the D a rest, that's icing on the cake.

I agree with your assessment, however, my point is that the end result is the same.

freestater
01-18-2007, 07:36 AM
I think Herm's lost it. He already cut the playbook in half, and the players were already complaining about it. To cut it down further is simply suicide for a offense. I don't know what he's planning to do? Run the draw, off tackle, and 10 yard out to Kennison and that's it? Yeah Herm, lets be more ****ing predictible you asshat
:D the word 'asshat' always makes me laugh. :D

asshat:D

Silock
01-18-2007, 08:04 AM
As long as it works out for everyone involved, I don't think it really matters too much.

Frosty
01-18-2007, 09:30 AM
Hmm, I probably don't know what I am talking about but I imagine that "simplify" means less shifting before the snap and probably less pulling by the Oline.

I think part of the problem is the multiple reads and adjustments that the receivers have to make. It makes it tough for young players to come in and play right away.

Does anyone else think that the Chiefs will be leaning more to a west coast offense next year? That is Solari's background and what Herm ran for awhile with the Jets. A quicker passing game would mean less time that the o-line had to block and it would be much easier to get the young receivers on the field.

Mr. Laz
01-18-2007, 10:04 AM
simplifying the offense is strictly code for "i'm not good enough to coach it"

King_Chief_Fan
01-18-2007, 10:11 AM
:D the word 'asshat' always makes me laugh. :D

asshat:D


heh heh, you said asshat

htismaqe
01-18-2007, 10:16 AM
simplifying the offense is strictly code for "i'm not good enough to coach it"

Unfortunately, I have to agree.

If the players are too stupid to understand the scheme, you don't change the scheme, you change the players.

The only reason a coach changes the scheme is if HE HIMSELf can't understand it.

Chiefnj
01-18-2007, 10:26 AM
Unfortunately, I have to agree.

If the players are too stupid to understand the scheme, you don't change the scheme, you change the players.

The only reason a coach changes the scheme is if HE HIMSELf can't understand it.

He's changing the scheme because he doesn't like it. It doesn't fit his style and he's not comfortable with it.

htismaqe
01-18-2007, 10:46 AM
He's changing the scheme because he doesn't like it. It doesn't fit his style and he's not comfortable with it.

He didn't say he was simply changing it.

He said he was "simplifying" it.

FringeNC
01-18-2007, 10:49 AM
He didn't say he was simply changing it.

He said he was "simplifying" it.

I think you guys are both right. Herm Edwards doesn't understand the benefits of having a complex offense, he only sees the costs. He MIGHT understand how it works, but not WHY it works.

Fairplay
01-18-2007, 10:55 AM
I think Herm's lost it. He already cut the playbook in half, and the players were already complaining about it.


Absolutely. Hes slashed the offensive plays already. Now wants to slash it even more. Apparently he thinks pro football players have low I.Q.s.
Herms going to screw up this offense bad.

Before he came our offense was relatively complex but it worked.

htismaqe
01-18-2007, 10:59 AM
Absolutely. Hes slashed the offensive plays already. Now wants to slash it even more. Apparently he thinks pro football players have low I.Q.s.
Herms going to screw up this offense bad.

Before he came our offense was relatively complex but it worked.

Willie Roaf was a big reason it worked. It didn't work so well in 2001 without Willie.