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Lzen
01-18-2007, 01:03 PM
Hypersonic Cruise Missile: America's New Global Strike Weapon
The mission: Attack anywhere in the world in less than an hour. But is the Pentagon's bold program a critical new weapon for hitting elusive targets, or a good way to set off a nuclear war?

By Noah Shachtman
Diagrams by Kakofonia
Published in the January, 2007 issue.

A tip sets the plan in motion — a whispered warning of a North Korean nuclear launch, or of a shipment of biotoxins bound for a Hezbollah stronghold in Lebanon. Word races through the American intelligence network until it reaches U.S. Strategic Command headquarters, the Pentagon and, eventually, the White House. In the Pacific, a nuclear-powered Ohio class submarine surfaces, ready for the president's command to launch.

When the order comes, the sub shoots a 65-ton Trident II ballistic missile into the sky. Within 2 minutes, the missile is traveling at more than 20,000 ft. per second. Up and over the oceans and out of the atmosphere it soars for thousands of miles. At the top of its parabola, hanging in space, the Trident's four warheads separate and begin their screaming descent down toward the planet. Traveling as fast as 13,000 mph, the warheads are filled with scored tungsten rods with twice the strength of steel. Just above the target, the warheads detonate, showering the area with thousands of rods-each one up to 12 times as destructive as a .50-caliber bullet. Anything within 3000 sq. ft. of this whirling, metallic storm is obliterated.

If Pentagon strategists get their way, there will be no place on the planet to hide from such an assault. The plan is part of a program — in slow development since the 1990s, and now quickly coalescing in military circles — called Prompt Global Strike. It will begin with modified Tridents. But eventually, Prompt Global Strike could encompass new generations of aircraft and armaments five times faster than anything in the current American arsenal. One candidate: the X-51 hypersonic cruise missile, which is designed to hit Mach 5 — roughly 3600 mph. The goal, according to the U.S. Strategic Command's deputy commander Lt. Gen. C. Robert Kehler, is "to strike virtually anywhere on the face of the Earth within 60 minutes."

The question is whether such an attack can be deployed without triggering World War III: Those tungsten-armed Tridents look, and fly, exactly like the deadliest weapons in the American nuclear arsenal.

Continued here: http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/4203874.html

Donger
01-18-2007, 01:09 PM
The question is whether such an attack can be deployed without triggering World War III: Those tungsten-armed Tridents look, and fly, exactly like the deadliest weapons in the American nuclear arsenal.


There's the rub.

Lzen
01-18-2007, 01:13 PM
There's the rub.
Yeah, I'm a little nervous about using the Trident missiles with conventional explosives for this. Perhaps the X-51 is a better solution.

Donger
01-18-2007, 01:16 PM
Yeah, I'm a little nervous about using the Trident missiles with conventional explosives for this. Perhaps the X-51 is a better solution.

If they ever get it to work, yes. But even Mach 7 isn't really very fast. Our ICBMs can hit anywhere in the world in ~30 minutes.

Donger
01-18-2007, 01:17 PM
I love this picture...

.

listopencil
01-18-2007, 01:37 PM
I like it. Make it so.

Chiefs_Fan
01-18-2007, 01:48 PM
I love this picture...

.
Cool, but what is that a picture of?

ptlyon
01-18-2007, 01:50 PM
Cool. I need one. Or 5.

Hail Cobra!

Donger
01-18-2007, 01:51 PM
Cool, but what is that a picture of?

God.

Actually, those are re-entry vehicles.

patteeu
01-18-2007, 01:53 PM
I like it. Make it so.

Ditto

John_Wayne
01-18-2007, 04:04 PM
In the Pacific, a nuclear-powered Ohio class submarine surfaces, ready for the president's command to launch.

Why does the sub have to surface? Our subs don't have to surface to fire their missles.

FAX
01-18-2007, 04:05 PM
Air, Mr. Gunther_Fan.

FAX

jiveturkey
01-18-2007, 04:17 PM
There was a PopSci article recently that talked about firing tungsten rods from satellites. They would reach approximately 36,000 feet/second and would ruin a lot of people's day.

Those people wouldn't have a lot of time to run away either.

Radar Chief
01-18-2007, 04:25 PM
Air, Mr. Gunther_Fan.

FAX

:spock:

Adept Havelock
01-18-2007, 04:49 PM
I remember a concept similar to this that was kicked around back in the 70's. I believe it was called "Thor" but may be thinking of another system.

It was similar to this, but instead of launching them from an ICBM (which could be horribly misinterpreted as Donger pointed out) they drop from Satellites, which of course presents it's own problems.

Hell of a kinetic energy weapon, either way.

morphius
01-18-2007, 05:05 PM
Also of note today is that China is reported to have successfully tested a laser that disable/destroy a satellites. So all of those, "smart bombs" that use GPS for targeting would be pretty useless in a war with China or its allies.

Halfcan
01-18-2007, 05:17 PM
We can beat China with a dozen chickens with Bird Flu.

Donger
01-18-2007, 05:30 PM
Also of note today is that China is reported to have successfully tested a laser that disable/destroy a satellites. So all of those, "smart bombs" that use GPS for targeting would be pretty useless in a war with China or its allies.

It wasn't a laser. It was a kinetic ASAT.

morphius
01-18-2007, 05:42 PM
It wasn't a laser. It was a kinetic ASAT.
Ahhh, first reports I read said laser, oh well.

Donger
01-18-2007, 05:45 PM
Ahhh, first reports I read said laser, oh well.

The end result is the same. The Chinese have blinded our birds with GBLs before. This is a little different.

Donger
01-18-2007, 05:47 PM
We can beat China with a dozen chickens with Bird Flu.

You're kidding, right? The Chinese would be a serious adversary (again).

boogblaster
01-18-2007, 06:27 PM
Enough said, we still contol the worlds destiny, if we wanted , all big enough to die would...

"Bob" Dobbs
01-18-2007, 06:39 PM
In the Pacific, a nuclear-powered Ohio class submarine surfaces, ready for the president's command to launch.

Why does the sub have to surface? Our subs don't have to surface to fire their missles.

I think that they DO need to come up to periscope depth to launch. Not surfacing, but close enough...

Calcountry
01-18-2007, 07:58 PM
We can beat China with a dozen chickens with Bird Flu.The problem with that, is birds migrate.

Easy 6
01-18-2007, 08:00 PM
Rods from God, its really quite amazing to think about, no explosives necessary just pure kinetic force.

Diabolically simple.

Donger
01-18-2007, 08:07 PM
I think that they DO need to come up to periscope depth to launch. Not surfacing, but close enough...

Max SLBM launch depth is 200 feet, IIRC.

Pitt Gorilla
01-18-2007, 09:02 PM
Awesome.

Rausch
01-18-2007, 10:43 PM
Rods from God, its really quite amazing to think about, no explosives necessary just pure kinetic force.

Diabolically simple.

Would we ever have bothered to create nukes if we'd stopped to think that all we had to do was throw really heavy $#it really fast?

Rausch
01-18-2007, 10:47 PM
Also of note today is that China is reported to have successfully tested a laser that disable/destroy a satellites. So all of those, "smart bombs" that use GPS for targeting would be pretty useless in a war with China or its allies.

15-20 airbust nukes and the EMPs plop them right back in the stone age.

Tricky part is not pissing off Russia and catching a counter hook to the grill in the process...

PastorMikH
01-18-2007, 10:48 PM
It sounds like a shotgun effect. I wonder if something like this could be modified to knock a nuke out of the air.

morphius
01-18-2007, 10:55 PM
15-20 airbust nukes and the EMPs plop them right back in the stone age.

Tricky part is not pissing off Russia and catching a counter hook to the grill in the process...
Pretty much the next step is stealth nukes.

Donger
01-18-2007, 11:03 PM
Would we ever have bothered to create nukes if we'd stopped to think that all we had to do was throw really heavy $#it really fast?

Nuclear weapons pre-date exoatmospheric weapons, strange as it seems.

Donger
01-18-2007, 11:08 PM
It sounds like a shotgun effect. I wonder if something like this could be modified to knock a nuke out of the air.

In a round about kind of way, yes. There are counter measures to MIRVs. The question is: can you get all of them?

Donger
01-18-2007, 11:09 PM
Pretty much the next step is stealth nukes.

It's somewhat difficult to stealth a ballistic missile launch.

alanm
01-18-2007, 11:30 PM
We can beat China with a dozen chickens with Bird Flu.
ROFL :LOL: ROFL :thumb:

morphius
01-18-2007, 11:33 PM
It's somewhat difficult to stealth a ballistic missile launch.
Yeah, it isn't gonna be easy, but if it is stealth it will not have to be as fast, so you could get away from using a rocket.

Rausch
01-18-2007, 11:36 PM
Nuclear weapons pre-date exoatmospheric weapons

Oh I know, but Albert's equation was there. The science behind this is almost a century old.

alanm
01-18-2007, 11:47 PM
Yeah, it isn't gonna be easy, but if it is stealth it will not have to be as fast, so you could get away from using a rocket.
Yeah but that would kind of defeat the purpose of being able to strike anywhere within a hr.
You'd almost have to have armed space stations utilizing some sort of weapons system.

dtebbe
01-19-2007, 09:04 AM
Rods from God, its really quite amazing to think about, no explosives necessary just pure kinetic force.

Diabolically simple.

Kinetic energy is an amazing thing. I about pooped my pants back in 91 when I was at the HQ US army Armor command in Ft. Knox, and saw a slow-mo of a 120mm sabot round going thru the interior of a tank. Let's just say it vaporized EVERYTHING in the interior, and melted metal instantly.

It's amazing what a piece of depleted urianium will do at over 1000 ft/sec:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m829a1.htm

DT

Redrum_69
01-19-2007, 09:06 AM
Have any of you ever had sex with a woman from Iraq?

Donger
01-19-2007, 09:13 AM
Have any of you ever had sex with a woman from Iraq?

No. But a gal from Olathe blew me once. Does that count?

Over-Head
01-19-2007, 09:19 AM
The only question I have is:
How come the USA can build weapons like this, but god forbid some/ ANY other country does?
Should China, Korea, some Russian state or ANY other country in the world build a weapon of this type, you Yanky Doodles would be all over their ass in a hart beat.
Yes I come from a country who’s known as a "Peace keeping Nation" but come on now.
Were talking about WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION here folks.
Ain’t that kinda why you guy’s strung up that dude over there in the desert a few weeks ago? :hmmm:

Donger
01-19-2007, 09:30 AM
Should China, Korea, some Russian state or ANY other country in the world build a weapon of this type, you Yanky Doodles would be all over their ass in a hart beat.

Which weapon?

Radar Chief
01-19-2007, 12:00 PM
Anyone watch Future Weapons on Discover?
They covered this kinetic weapon once, and from what they said we actually used this in Iraq during the invasion.

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/future-weapons/weapons/zone1/sensor-fuzed-bomb.html

ChiefaRoo
01-19-2007, 01:48 PM
The only question I have is:
How come the USA can build weapons like this, but god forbid some/ ANY other country does?
Should China, Korea, some Russian state or ANY other country in the world build a weapon of this type, you Yanky Doodles would be all over their ass in a hart beat.
Yes I come from a country who’s known as a "Peace keeping Nation" but come on now.
Were talking about WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION here folks.
Ain’t that kinda why you guy’s strung up that dude over there in the desert a few weeks ago? :hmmm:
'
Simple answer my friend. The USA is a democracy and is made up of like minded people from EVERY country on the planet that think freedom, capitalism, the rights of the minority, freedom of religion and the simple right to be left alone to do what he hell you want to do is a good thing.
The USA as an overall operation is the only nation in the world that has the power to defend these ideals due to the fact that we are a good intentioned people who have defeated failed ideologies over the years who have tried to take over the world or at least intimidate it into change that serves ONLY their country. In short the USA is the best thing going on this planet as it relates to a governmental and philosophical system. When we develop these weapons the world knows that by and large they're safe. In other words Canada and Mexico aren't afraid of us militarily. Think about that for a minute there are no other strong powers in the world that can claim the same. (Britain, France don't count as they're not world powers). For example, the Chinese scare their neighbors (Japan, S.Korea) who are both democratic and it gets worse when you add the N. Koreans (who are a chinese ally)

The USA isn't perfect but it is the light of the Free World and what we have going here (democracy) is a fantastic and wonderful thing. As I see the rest of the world struggling to make democracy work (Ex. Iraq, Mexico) I think how incredibly powerful and yet fragile democracy is and how it must be protected or it could be destroyed. We must protect our way of life as there are those who would want to re-shape the world in an image that does not serve democracy and individual human rights.

So, to summarize. Yes, the USA should go around using our power (both diplomatic and military) to keep the world safe not only for us but for our allies in other countries. Our power comes from our ideas, our economy is powered by these ideas and our military is powered by our economy. Therefore it is important that we have the best military as it keeps the world stable. and our way of life safe. There is so much crap out there about how the USA makes the world unstable but it's mostly propaganda by those who are not comfortable with the USA being strong (Liberals) or those who flat out want us greatly weakened (China, Russia etc) so they can dominate their parts of the world.

KC Kings
01-19-2007, 02:10 PM
In a round about kind of way, yes. There are counter measures to MIRVs. The question is: can you get all of them?
There's only one way to stop them all....http://www.secondtruth.com/gemini/magnet.jpg

Lzen
01-19-2007, 03:56 PM
The only question I have is:
How come the USA can build weapons like this, but god forbid some/ ANY other country does?
Should China, Korea, some Russian state or ANY other country in the world build a weapon of this type, you Yanky Doodles would be all over their ass in a hart beat.
Yes I come from a country who’s known as a "Peace keeping Nation" but come on now.
Were talking about WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION here folks.
Ain’t that kinda why you guy’s strung up that dude over there in the desert a few weeks ago? :hmmm:

Chiefaroo covered this very well, but I'll just add my 2 cents anyway.

I don't know that the USA is all over China or Russia when they build super weapons. Sure, we would rather be the only super power (some would say that we are the only one, but IMO China is quickly becoming one). But I think the USA realizes that countries like China and Russia aren't as much of a threat.

We sure as Hell don't want any kind of super weapons in the hands of rogue nations like Iran or N. Korea. Can you imagine what some of these crazy leaders of those countries might do if they had the capability? The US and the world does not want to see another Hitler.

Count Alex's Losses
01-19-2007, 05:35 PM
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~carlson/personal/games/glide_missile_command.jpg

J Diddy
01-19-2007, 05:40 PM
There's only one way to stop them all....http://www.secondtruth.com/gemini/magnet.jpg

Is that a man?

Looks like magnet morphodite

RINGLEADER
08-14-2012, 02:32 PM
Just saw them test this about an hour or so ago from my backyard. Big B-52-like contrail with another smaller contrail following...bit later another contrail formed and shot away like a bullet, but after about 10 seconds the contrail it was leaving stopped with a big puff.

Hopefully it didn't blow up or anything stupid like that...

Saul Good
08-14-2012, 02:35 PM
Just saw them test this about an hour or so ago from my backyard. Big B-52-like contrail with another smaller contrail following...bit later another contrail formed and shot away like a bullet, but after about 10 seconds the contrail it was leaving stopped with a big puff.

Hopefully it didn't blow up or anything stupid like that...

They were actually testing a hypersonic aircraft today, iirc.

ChiefsNow
08-14-2012, 02:53 PM
It's the only way to beat the Cling ons.

durtyrute
08-14-2012, 02:54 PM
Now, we can kill more people, faster.

Go us!!

CoMoChief
08-14-2012, 02:58 PM
this is not cool

RINGLEADER
08-14-2012, 03:03 PM
They were actually testing a hypersonic aircraft today, iirc.

Yeah, it was this X51 thingy...

BigRedChief
08-14-2012, 06:25 PM
Public info:
It's just a new aircraft. A special one but still its a plane.

How is this a cruise missle?

BigRedChief
08-14-2012, 06:28 PM
But I think the USA realizes that countries like China and Russia aren't as much of a threat. this is not a correct assumption.

RINGLEADER
08-15-2012, 01:23 AM
Public info:
It's just a new aircraft. A special one but still its a plane.

How is this a cruise missle?

I think they were considering weaponizing it at one point (and may still be for all I know).

I can't find any stories about how the test went online. I saw it happen, but searched Google news with no luck.

RINGLEADER
08-15-2012, 01:25 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2188415/The-future-takes-flight-Hypersonic-X-51-Waverider-jet-makes-airborne-appearance.html

Looks like what I saw was normal - it had a rocket booster then the new engine took over! Hooray for USA!

HonestChieffan
08-15-2012, 07:36 AM
This sucks. Not the discussion But here I am all drugged up with pain meds and Im reading the thread paying no attention to the dates. There is good old Mr Fax and I think, cool, FAX is back. Then I see the date and realize he is still on a hyper speed something going somewhere and he isnt really back.

Bummer. Shingles suck.

Hog Farmer
08-15-2012, 07:46 AM
This sucks. Not the discussion But here I am all drugged up with pain meds and Im reading the thread paying no attention to the dates. There is good old Mr Fax and I think, cool, FAX is back. Then I see the date and realize he is still on a hyper speed something going somewhere and he isnt really back.

Bummer. Shingles suck.

Heh. Same here. Thought Fax was back and then saw the post date. This is why anyone bumping old threads needs to be banned for life !

loochy
08-15-2012, 09:02 AM
this is not cool

You are wrong. It is pretty damn cool.

Donger
08-15-2012, 09:05 AM
How is this a cruise missle?

It isn't ballistic.

Amnorix
08-15-2012, 09:15 AM
The only question I have is:
How come the USA can build weapons like this, but god forbid some/ ANY other country does?
Should China, Korea, some Russian state or ANY other country in the world build a weapon of this type, you Yanky Doodles would be all over their ass in a hart beat.
Yes I come from a country who’s known as a "Peace keeping Nation" but come on now.
Were talking about WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION here folks.
Ain’t that kinda why you guy’s strung up that dude over there in the desert a few weeks ago? :hmmm:


What really gets me isn't even the development of WMDs by other countries. A Soviet sub goes for a cruise in the Gulf of Mexico and everyone has alarm bells going off like "OMG, should we double the Pentagon's budget?!?"

It's just nuts.

Donger
08-15-2012, 09:16 AM
What really gets me isn't even the development of WMDs by other countries. A Soviet sub goes for a cruise in the Gulf of Mexico and everyone has alarm bells going off like "OMG, should we double the Pentagon's budget?!?"

It's just nuts.

I don't see anyone doing that.

Amnorix
08-15-2012, 09:31 AM
I don't see anyone doing that.


The double the budget is an exaggeration (obviously), but the talking points on the right have got it clear about how Obama must be nuts to cut defense spending when something like THIS could happen...

The Navy is facing sharp cuts in forces needed to detect and counter such submarine activity.

http://freebeacon.com/silent-running/

I hardly need to take you on a tour of conservative websites, but a brief bit of effort on Google shows no shortage of such views.

Donger
08-15-2012, 09:36 AM
The double the budget is an exaggeration (obviously), but the talking points on the right have got it clear about how Obama must be nuts to cut defense spending when something like THIS could happen...



http://freebeacon.com/silent-running/

I hardly need to take you on a tour of conservative websites, but a brief bit of effort on Google shows no shortage of such views.

It's just a simple fact, Amno:

The Navy is facing sharp cuts in forces needed to detect and counter such submarine activity.

The Obama administration’s defense budget proposal in February cut $1.3 billion from Navy shipbuilding projects, which will result in scrapping plans to build 16 new warships through 2017.

The budget also called for cutting plans to buy 10 advanced P-8 anti-submarine warfare jets needed for submarine detection.

Amnorix
08-15-2012, 09:43 AM
It's just a simple fact, Amno:

The Navy is facing sharp cuts in forces needed to detect and counter such submarine activity.

The Obama administration’s defense budget proposal in February cut $1.3 billion from Navy shipbuilding projects, which will result in scrapping plans to build 16 new warships through 2017.

The budget also called for cutting plans to buy 10 advanced P-8 anti-submarine warfare jets needed for submarine detection.


But this event has little or nothing to do with whether our military budget levels are appropriate or not.

Let me put it this way -- you can no more eliminate every military threat by endlessly throwing money at it than you can eliminate poverty by endlessly throwing money at it.

Donger
08-15-2012, 09:49 AM
But this event has little or nothing to do with whether our military budget levels are appropriate or not.

Let me put it this way -- you can no more eliminate every military threat by endlessly throwing money at it than you can eliminate poverty by endlessly throwing money at it.

All true. You know my feelings on the matter.

DaneMcCloud
08-15-2012, 10:16 AM
This sucks. Not the discussion But here I am all drugged up with pain meds and Im reading the thread paying no attention to the dates. There is good old Mr Fax and I think, cool, FAX is back. Then I see the date and realize he is still on a hyper speed something going somewhere and he isnt really back.

Bummer. Shingles suck.

Get the the shingles vaccine after the shingles have gone into remission. No more shingles. Good luck!

KILLER_CLOWN
08-15-2012, 11:26 AM
Star Wars was cooler.

Frazod
08-15-2012, 01:55 PM
Well, so much for that. Lost over the Pacific after a few seconds of flight. :facepalm:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/08/15/hypersonic-x-51a-waverider-lost-over-pacific/

Donger
08-15-2012, 02:22 PM
Well, so much for that. Lost over the Pacific after a few seconds of flight. :facepalm:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/08/15/hypersonic-x-51a-waverider-lost-over-pacific/

Yeah, that's a bummer. But experimental aircraft are just that. At least pilots aren't being lost along with this failures.

durtyrute
08-15-2012, 02:29 PM
Well, so much for that. Lost over the Pacific after a few seconds of flight. :facepalm:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/08/15/hypersonic-x-51a-waverider-lost-over-pacific/

Does this mean we can't kill more people?

Donger
08-15-2012, 02:36 PM
Does this mean we can't kill more people?

No.

durtyrute
08-15-2012, 03:34 PM
No.

Well, that's a relief!

BigRedChief
08-15-2012, 07:11 PM
The double the budget is an exaggeration (obviously), but the talking points on the right have got it clear about how Obama must be nuts to cut defense spending when something like THIS could happen...



http://freebeacon.com/silent-running/

I hardly need to take you on a tour of conservative websites, but a brief bit of effort on Google shows no shortage of such views.Big fucking things are out. We dont need big fucking things. We need light and fast. There will never ever be a war in the ocean anymore. There will never be another war that we need to ensure the navy can supply the war by militarily protecting the whole path from the USA to the war zone.

The way we fight the next war will not include a bunch of huge navy ships.

BigRedChief
08-15-2012, 07:12 PM
Get the the shingles vaccine after the shingles have gone into remission. No more shingles. Good luck!THIS!

RINGLEADER
08-15-2012, 08:30 PM
Well, so much for that. Lost over the Pacific after a few seconds of flight. :facepalm:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/08/15/hypersonic-x-51a-waverider-lost-over-pacific/

Bummer, but that's what it looked like from my vantage point.