PDA

View Full Version : Penguins fans uniting against KC


Coach
01-19-2007, 09:56 AM
I haven't seen it on the front 2 pages, so if I missed it, I apologize.

http://www.helpthepens.com/

http://www.helpthepens.com/kc.jpg

chagrin
01-19-2007, 09:59 AM
haha

Simplex3
01-19-2007, 10:07 AM
That's the best the can come up with? Looks like they'll be losing their team if this is all the smarter they are.

jiveturkey
01-19-2007, 10:10 AM
There was something on the crawler this morning on the news but they cut it off after "Penguins cut off negotiations with..."

Was it us out someone else?

Chief Chief
01-19-2007, 10:11 AM
I'm LMAO at the dollar total posted after "COUNT TO A MILLION"!!

Cochise
01-19-2007, 10:13 AM
That shirt is the weakest piece of MSPaint + Cafepress.com garbage I've ever seen.

Fish
01-19-2007, 10:25 AM
There was something on the crawler this morning on the news but they cut it off after "Penguins cut off negotiations with..."

Was it us out someone else?

Nope.... negotiations in Pit...


Penguins meeting ends with no deal
Two sides plan more talks; casino owner Barden sits in

A late-night meeting aimed at working out a deal that would keep the Penguins in Pittsburgh began with a stir but ended without an agreement and with very little comment from the participants.

The meeting, convened by Gov. Ed Rendell, was held at the State Office Building, Downtown. It got under way about 9:20 p.m., 20 minutes later than scheduled, due to the governor's late arrival.

The stir was caused by the arrival of Don Barden, the Detroit businessman who last month was awarded the sole slots casino license for Pittsburgh.

Mr. Barden joined a group of state and local officials, including Allegheny County Chief Executive Dan Onorato and Pittsburgh Mayor Luke Ravenstahl, who are trying to put together a financial package for a new arena that would keep the Penguins in Pittsburgh.

The meeting lasted about 90 minutes before Penguins representatives, including co-owner Ron Burkle and team President Ken Sawyer, left shortly before 11 p.m. without commenting to a large group of reporters waiting outside.

The contingent of state and local officials remained inside the building for more than an hour before Chuck Ardo, a spokesman for Gov. Rendell, emerged to say that more negotiations are planned.

Mr. Ardo said the two sides plan to hold more meetings, but said no specific date has been set.

"We hope to be able to work out a deal at some point in the near future," Mr. Ardo said.

Asked when the talks would resume, he said it would happen "as soon as possible."

A short time later, Mr. Ravenstahl and Mr. Onorato left the building without comment.

The significance of Mr. Barden's participation, which was not anticipated, was not immediately clear.

Before going inside, Mr. Barden said he came to the meeting to "observe and see if I can be helpful. I want to do everything I can to see that the Penguins stay in Pittsburgh."

The state Gaming Control Board on Dec. 20 awarded the sole slot machine casino license for Pittsburgh to Mr. Barden. He plans to build a Majestic Star casino in the Chateau neighborhood near the Carnegie Science Center.

Mr. Barden previously indicated he would not increase his commitment of $7.5 million per year to help finance an arena.

Upon his arrival, Mr. Onorato told reporters there was a "real possibility" that a deal could emerge from the meeting.

"We're coming down here to try to finalize this deal," he said.

"The important thing here is to get something done, if it's today, tomorrow or next week, as long as it gets done. Our goal is to keep the Penguins here and to get a deal that makes sense for everybody involved," he said.

Mr. Rendell declined to speak to reporters going into the talks.

Mr. Ravenstahl said he was "eagerly anticipating the talks" but refused to speculate on them.

Before entering talks with state and local officials this month, team leaders visited Kansas City, which is trying to get a hockey club to play in the new $276 million Sprint Center to open this fall.

The Penguins' lease at Mellon Arena, the oldest venue in the National Hockey League, expires at the end of June, leaving the franchise free to move. Kansas City is offering a rent-free Sprint Center and a share of revenues.

Mr. Lemieux said the Penguins would consider all options, including a possible relocation, after Isle of Capri Casinos Inc. lost its bid for the Pittsburgh casino license. The gambling operator had teamed with the club to put together a proposal that included $290 million in upfront funding for an arena.

Officials hope to craft a deal under Plan B, the formula concocted by Mr. Rendell to fund an arena. It calls for winning casino bidder PITG Gaming LLC to contribute $7.5 million a year for 30 years toward construction. Another $7 million a year would come from a slots-financed economic development fund.

Initially, the Penguins were asked to kick in about $4 million a year, including $1.16 million in naming rights, plus an upfront payment of $8.5 million.

The state, county and city presented a somewhat sweetened version at a Jan. 4 meeting, and it is believed that the Penguins' share will end up closer to $2.9 million a year.

The $8.5 million also may be accounted for in the sale of the former St. Francis Central Hospital on Centre Avenue to the city-county Sports & Exhibition Authority, which needs it for the site of the new arena. The Penguins purchased the property for $8 million in 2000.

Sully
01-19-2007, 10:43 AM
Nope.... negotiations in Pit...


Penguins meeting ends with no deal
Two sides plan more talks; casino owner Barden sits in

A late-night meeting aimed at working out a deal that would keep the Penguins in Pittsburgh began with a stir but ended without an agreement and with very little comment from the participants.

The meeting, convened by Gov. Ed Rendell, was held at the State Office Building, Downtown. It got under way about 9:20 p.m., 20 minutes later than scheduled, due to the governor's late arrival.

The stir was caused by the arrival of Don Barden, the Detroit businessman who last month was awarded the sole slots casino license for Pittsburgh.

Mr. Barden joined a group of state and local officials, including Allegheny County Chief Executive Dan Onorato and Pittsburgh Mayor Luke Ravenstahl, who are trying to put together a financial package for a new arena that would keep the Penguins in Pittsburgh.

The meeting lasted about 90 minutes before Penguins representatives, including co-owner Ron Burkle and team President Ken Sawyer, left shortly before 11 p.m. without commenting to a large group of reporters waiting outside.

The contingent of state and local officials remained inside the building for more than an hour before Chuck Ardo, a spokesman for Gov. Rendell, emerged to say that more negotiations are planned.

Mr. Ardo said the two sides plan to hold more meetings, but said no specific date has been set.

"We hope to be able to work out a deal at some point in the near future," Mr. Ardo said.

Asked when the talks would resume, he said it would happen "as soon as possible."

A short time later, Mr. Ravenstahl and Mr. Onorato left the building without comment.

The significance of Mr. Barden's participation, which was not anticipated, was not immediately clear.

Before going inside, Mr. Barden said he came to the meeting to "observe and see if I can be helpful. I want to do everything I can to see that the Penguins stay in Pittsburgh."

The state Gaming Control Board on Dec. 20 awarded the sole slot machine casino license for Pittsburgh to Mr. Barden. He plans to build a Majestic Star casino in the Chateau neighborhood near the Carnegie Science Center.

Mr. Barden previously indicated he would not increase his commitment of $7.5 million per year to help finance an arena.

Upon his arrival, Mr. Onorato told reporters there was a "real possibility" that a deal could emerge from the meeting.

"We're coming down here to try to finalize this deal," he said.

"The important thing here is to get something done, if it's today, tomorrow or next week, as long as it gets done. Our goal is to keep the Penguins here and to get a deal that makes sense for everybody involved," he said.

Mr. Rendell declined to speak to reporters going into the talks.

Mr. Ravenstahl said he was "eagerly anticipating the talks" but refused to speculate on them.

Before entering talks with state and local officials this month, team leaders visited Kansas City, which is trying to get a hockey club to play in the new $276 million Sprint Center to open this fall.

The Penguins' lease at Mellon Arena, the oldest venue in the National Hockey League, expires at the end of June, leaving the franchise free to move. Kansas City is offering a rent-free Sprint Center and a share of revenues.

Mr. Lemieux said the Penguins would consider all options, including a possible relocation, after Isle of Capri Casinos Inc. lost its bid for the Pittsburgh casino license. The gambling operator had teamed with the club to put together a proposal that included $290 million in upfront funding for an arena.

Officials hope to craft a deal under Plan B, the formula concocted by Mr. Rendell to fund an arena. It calls for winning casino bidder PITG Gaming LLC to contribute $7.5 million a year for 30 years toward construction. Another $7 million a year would come from a slots-financed economic development fund.

Initially, the Penguins were asked to kick in about $4 million a year, including $1.16 million in naming rights, plus an upfront payment of $8.5 million.

The state, county and city presented a somewhat sweetened version at a Jan. 4 meeting, and it is believed that the Penguins' share will end up closer to $2.9 million a year.

The $8.5 million also may be accounted for in the sale of the former St. Francis Central Hospital on Centre Avenue to the city-county Sports & Exhibition Authority, which needs it for the site of the new arena. The Penguins purchased the property for $8 million in 2000.


That is GREAT news.

Cochise
01-19-2007, 10:46 AM
Nice article.

It sounds like, try as they might, the politicos are not going to be able to match the Kansas City offer.

IMO it comes down to the voters there. The politicians have been giving the Pens the stiff one-eye for a number of years, but the voters had a chance to build a new arena and voted it down. We, on the other hand, said we want another professional sport here and approved a new arena.

Bearcat
01-19-2007, 10:48 AM
Sweet... I heard a rumor that they had pulled it out in Pittsburgh last night, which was a huge shock to me. Good news! PBJ

BigRedChief
01-19-2007, 10:52 AM
Guys I don't know hockey. I know nothing of politics in Pittsburg. But it just seems to me that this team is a "major" player in the NHL with a good recent history correct? And they have the best new player in the league correct?

Why would Pitt or the state let them walk? Sorry, just don't see it

Demonpenz
01-19-2007, 10:54 AM
pittsburg H H H H H H

Cochise
01-19-2007, 11:01 AM
Guys I don't know hockey. I know nothing of politics in Pittsburg. But it just seems to me that this team is a "major" player in the NHL with a good recent history correct? And they have the best new player in the league correct?

Why would Pitt or the state let them walk? Sorry, just don't see it

They play in a crappy old arena, the oldest in the league. It's lacking in revenue producers like luxury boxes. The team has been in dire financial straits with multiple bankruptcies. They need a new arena to stay afloat.

The Steelers, Pirates, Eagles, Phillies, 76ers, and Flyers are all playing in venues that are 10 years old or less. But the state won't give the Penguins anything. The state also had a chance, if they awarded casino rights to Isle of Capri, to get that company to pay for the arena, but they awarded the rights to someone else.

The feeling on the boards I have been lurking is that the state has left them with no options. Nobody blames Mario or the Pens organization, they blame the state government.

Thig Lyfe
01-19-2007, 11:02 AM
That shirt is the weakest piece of MSPaint + Cafepress.com garbage I've ever seen.

More like Microsoft Office 97 WordArt.

Sully
01-19-2007, 11:09 AM
Guys I don't know hockey. I know nothing of politics in Pittsburg. But it just seems to me that this team is a "major" player in the NHL with a good recent history correct? And they have the best new player in the league correct?

Why would Pitt or the state let them walk? Sorry, just don't see it

They've been horrible for the better part of 10 years.
However, they have a decent history, and not just one, but 2 of arguably the top 4 young SUPERSTARS in the game in Crosby and Malkin. They also have surrounded them with other young role players. This team could be great within 2-3 years (the building takes a hair longer in the NHL than other sports, due to more of an emphasis on team cohesiveness).
If we get the Pens, we could end up with a situation very close to when Denver got the Avs and won the Stanley Cup that year. This could be HUGE!!!!

Thig Lyfe
01-19-2007, 11:14 AM
They've been horrible for the better part of 10 years.
However, they have a decent history, and not just one, but 2 of arguably the top 4 young SUPERSTARS in the game in Crosby and Malkin. They also have surrounded them with other young role players. This team could be great within 2-3 years (the building takes a hair longer in the NHL than other sports, due to more of an emphasis on team cohesiveness).
If we get the Pens, we could end up with a situation very close to when Denver got the Avs and won the Stanley Cup that year. This could be HUGE!!!!

Yep, Crosby is apparently the best player in the game. He's been called the next Gretzky but he's also playing like it, starting in the All-Start game at 19.

It would be perfect timing for KC to nab the Penguins right now.

RedDread
01-19-2007, 11:23 AM
The louder and more bitter they get the better chance we have of getting this team.

:D

jynni
01-19-2007, 11:59 AM
They play in a crappy old arena, the oldest in the league. It's lacking in revenue producers like luxury boxes. The team has been in dire financial straits with multiple bankruptcies. They need a new arena to stay afloat.

The Steelers, Pirates, Eagles, Phillies, 76ers, and Flyers are all playing in venues that are 10 years old or less. But the state won't give the Penguins anything. The state also had a chance, if they awarded casino rights to Isle of Capri, to get that company to pay for the arena, but they awarded the rights to someone else.

The feeling on the boards I have been lurking is that the state has left them with no options. Nobody blames Mario or the Pens organization, they blame the state government.

Well the state gov and Kansas City apparently.

Jenson71
01-19-2007, 12:02 PM
Yep, Crosby is apparently the best player in the game. He's been called the next Gretzky but he's also playing like it, starting in the All-Start game at 19.

It would be perfect timing for KC to nab the Penguins right now.

It doesn't matter. We'd just trade him for a few minor league goalies anyway.

Thig Lyfe
01-19-2007, 12:04 PM
It doesn't matter. We'd just trade him for a few minor league goalies anyway.

Allard Baird is GM of the Penguins?!?!

:(

BigRedChief
01-19-2007, 12:05 PM
It doesn't matter. We'd just trade him for a few minor league goalies anyway.
WTF? I thought after this last holdout and shutdown by the hockey owners and players that they had an NFL model now? Share the wealth, equal playing field for all the teams?

Jenson71
01-19-2007, 12:06 PM
WTF? I thought after this last holdout and shutdown by the hockey owners and players that they had an NFL model now? Share the wealth, equal playing field for all the teams?

No, I was just making the old Royal joke.

I'm not sure how the NHL does things. Hopefully like the NFL though!

Wile_E_Coyote
01-19-2007, 12:10 PM
Would they become the King Penguins in KC?

~should not be posting in this thread

BigRedChief
01-19-2007, 12:11 PM
Would they become the King Penguins in KC?

~should not be posting in this thread
Chit, we have to know what a blue line is?

KC-TBB
01-19-2007, 12:14 PM
WTF IS ICING OTHER THAN ON A CAKE?

Wile_E_Coyote
01-19-2007, 12:14 PM
Chit, we have to know what a blue line is?

~I know now for sure, I should not have posted in this thread

Jenson71
01-19-2007, 12:15 PM
WTF IS ICING OTHER THAN ON A CAKE?

The first minutes of Slap Shot make this perfectly clear.

ENDelt260
01-19-2007, 12:33 PM
Who own the Chiefs?

BigRedChief
01-19-2007, 12:40 PM
Who own the Chiefs?
Is there a blue line in the icing of the cake?
http://www.mtwashington.org/projects/blue-line/images/blue-line-map.gif
http://www.goenglish.com/GoEnglish_com_IcingOnTheCake.gif
http://www.kcchiefs.com/media/staff/clark_hunt.jpg

Otter
01-19-2007, 12:42 PM
Who own the Chiefs?
Mo: Anyone familar with the Palm Isle. ****ed the bar maid last year. Standing there minding my own business and she comes rubbin' up against me.

One of the best movies evah

BigRedChief
01-19-2007, 12:46 PM
For us unededucated heathren
HOCKEY'S THREE MAIN RULES
Offsides: When any member of the attacking team precedes the puck over the defending team's blue line.
Offside (or two-line)Pass: When a player passes the puck from his defending zone to a teammate beyond the red center line.
Iceing: When a player shoots the puck across the center red line and past the opposing red goal line. Icing is not called if the player's team is killing a penalty, a teammate of the player shooting the puck touches it before a player from the opposing team, the defending goalie touches the puck first or if the puck travels through the crease (semicircle of blue paint at the "mouth" of the goal) on it's way to the red line.

Woodrow Call
01-19-2007, 12:47 PM
I've never been much of a hockey guy but I'm starting to get excited about this. Time to start paying attention to the highlights.

Saulbadguy
01-19-2007, 01:06 PM
Jaromir JAGROFF.

Cochise
01-19-2007, 01:15 PM
Offside (or two-line)Pass: When a player passes the puck from his defending zone to a teammate beyond the red center line.


They took that rule out. Two line passes are legal now.

BigRedChief
01-19-2007, 01:28 PM
They took that rule out. Two line passes are legal now.
Okay you sound like we would get better info from you than a google search. Elighten us please.

Cochise
01-19-2007, 01:53 PM
Okay you sound like we would get better info from you than a google search. Elighten us please.

They have tried to make the game faster.

Two line passes (like a pass that went over both the blue and the red line) used to be illegal, but are not anymore. That speeds the game up because you can move the puck down the ice faster by making longer passes.

Overtime is different now. There is a 5 minute 4-on-4 overtime period. If it's still tied after that, the game is decided in a shootout.

The neutral zone (the space between the blue lines) was narrowed to make the attacking zones bigger. Gives the offense more room to work with.

If your team ices the puck, you can't make substitutions before the faceoff. Keeps teams from icing just to make a line change.


Offsides just means that when the puck crosses the blue line, the player who has it must be the first one into the zone. So if I'm crossing the blue line with the puck and you are already standing down by the goal, you're offside. You can't just hang out down there and cherry pick shots. Know what I mean?

Hound333
01-19-2007, 02:00 PM
I'm pretty excited about the possibility of an NHL team in KC but I will be very upset if a couple of years down the line an NBA team is looking for a new home. I heard they only want one team in the Sprint Center. I would much rather have Basketball. Not that I don't like Hockey. I just like BB better.

Wa-Z
01-19-2007, 02:00 PM
Oh man, I really hope we get them! Only having The Chiefs, KU, and The Royals isn't enough!!

Jenson71
01-19-2007, 02:02 PM
I'm pretty excited about the possibility of an NHL team in KC but I will be very upset if a couple of years down the line an NBA team is looking for a new home. I heard they only want one team in the Sprint Center. I would much rather have Basketball. Not that I don't like Hockey. I just like BB better.

Along those lines, is KC getting Big XII bball again?

BigRedChief
01-19-2007, 02:05 PM
They have tried to make the game faster.

Two line passes (like a pass that went over both the blue and the red line) used to be illegal, but are not anymore. That speeds the game up because you can move the puck down the ice faster by making longer passes.

Overtime is different now. There is a 5 minute 4-on-4 overtime period. If it's still tied after that, the game is decided in a shootout.

The neutral zone (the space between the blue lines) was narrowed to make the attacking zones bigger. Gives the offense more room to work with.

If your team ices the puck, you can't make substitutions before the faceoff. Keeps teams from icing just to make a line change.


Offsides just means that when the puck crosses the blue line, the player who has it must be the first one into the zone. So if I'm crossing the blue line with the puck and you are already standing down by the goal, you're offside. You can't just hang out down there and cherry pick shots. Know what I mean?
Cool beans. Thanks for the info!
Do you know if the NHL is now modeled like the NFL? Everyboday shares money? Every team has the same amount of money to spend?

BigRedChief
01-19-2007, 02:06 PM
Along those lines, is KC getting Big XII bball again?
Of course. This will again be the home of the Big 12 Men's BB championship.

Jenson71
01-19-2007, 02:08 PM
Of course. This will again be the home of the Big 12 Men's BB championship.
:clap:

Woodrow Call
01-19-2007, 02:09 PM
I'm pretty excited about the possibility of an NHL team in KC but I will be very upset if a couple of years down the line an NBA team is looking for a new home. I heard they only want one team in the Sprint Center. I would much rather have Basketball. Not that I don't like Hockey. I just like BB better.

If given the choice I'd rather have the NBA as well.

Cochise
01-19-2007, 02:09 PM
Cool beans. Thanks for the info!
Do you know if the NHL is now modeled like the NFL? Everyboday shares money? Every team has the same amount of money to spend?

There is a salary cap, as well as a salary "floor". I don't know about revenue sharing though.

kstater
01-19-2007, 04:17 PM
"Checking our e-mail brought even a bigger surprise: crazy amounts of hate mail from jagoffs in Kansas City (fairly displeased about being called jagoffs, a term none of them seem to have heard before)."

Not only are they not getting any money but they
also are taking stabs at the KC fans

ChiefsCountry
01-19-2007, 04:41 PM
ESPN had lots of love for the Pens last night. Saying they were the most exciting team in hockey.

Ari Chi3fs
01-19-2007, 04:47 PM
I thought Jacksonville was for Jagoffs.

Oh... thats Jaguars.

I dont understand this slam.

morphius
01-19-2007, 04:59 PM
Are those not the lamest t-shirts ever? I mean if you are going to do something like that you should be able to cup up with something better then that. I mean heck, Jagoff's? Really, that is the best they can come up with...

Of course if I was evil I would find a use for this...

ChiefsCountry
01-19-2007, 05:01 PM
If we get the Pens, I hope we let Pittsburgh keep the name.

Sully
01-19-2007, 09:46 PM
On the Pens message board I troll on, they are freaking right out.
A few of them are trying to stay optimistic, but apparently the negotiations hit a sticking point today...
Pittsburgh wants the Pens to pay 1.5 mil a year to stay there in a new arena, while KC will have no such charge...

morphius
01-19-2007, 10:42 PM
On the Pens message board I troll on, they are freaking right out.
A few of them are trying to stay optimistic, but apparently the negotiations hit a sticking point today...
Pittsburgh wants the Pens to pay 1.5 mil a year to stay there in a new arena, while KC will have no such charge...
Interesting, thanks for the updates.

BigRedChief
01-19-2007, 11:05 PM
On the Pens message board I troll on, they are freaking right out.
A few of them are trying to stay optimistic, but apparently the negotiations hit a sticking point today...
Pittsburgh wants the Pens to pay 1.5 mil a year to stay there in a new arena, while KC will have no such charge...
So they would walk over 1.5 mil?

Halfcan
01-19-2007, 11:42 PM
How many Championships have the Pens won??

Reaper16
01-19-2007, 11:45 PM
Are those not the lamest t-shirts ever? I mean if you are going to do something like that you should be able to cup up with something better then that. I mean heck, Jagoff's? Really, that is the best they can come up with...

Of course if I was evil I would find a use for this...
I'm stealing that :p

Fish
01-19-2007, 11:47 PM
How many Championships have the Pens won??

2

'91 and '92

kcfanXIII
01-20-2007, 12:01 AM
reaper you beat me to it. oh well, new myspace pic. i'm pretty stoked about the nhl coming to kc. i haven't been to a hockey game since the blades folded.

Pitt Gorilla
01-20-2007, 12:04 AM
So they would walk over 1.5 mil?Not 1.5 mil, 1.5 mil per.

Cochise
01-20-2007, 12:07 AM
On the Pens message board I troll on, they are freaking right out.
A few of them are trying to stay optimistic, but apparently the negotiations hit a sticking point today...
Pittsburgh wants the Pens to pay 1.5 mil a year to stay there in a new arena, while KC will have no such charge...

They don't seem to have any understanding that the deals are complex and it's not as simple as them being 1.5 million apart. Besides the Penguins not having the pay rent here, for example, if they were to wait on a new arena in Pittsburgh they are losing out on the year or two worth of revenue they would make here by having to play at least one, probably two more seasons at Mellon.

You see all these people making posts like they have been sitting through all these negotiations personally. :rolleyes:

Obviously, the team will probably stay in Pittsburgh unless the state can't even approach the deal KC would give. We'll see what they decide.

Valiant
01-20-2007, 01:33 AM
I hope we get the team for the sheer fact to piss off people from shitsburg...

J Diddy
01-20-2007, 01:46 AM
I hope we get the team for the sheer fact to piss off people from shitsburg...

yeah that whole kc is for jagoffs is kinda over the top

they can lick da sweat from da diddy ballz

Cochise
01-20-2007, 07:34 AM
I hope we get the team for the sheer fact to piss off people from shitsburg...

If I'd never met a Steelers fan I might feel sorry for them...

runnercyclist
01-20-2007, 07:45 AM
That's the best the can come up with? Looks like they'll be losing their team if this is all the smarter they are.


I live here, you're giving them too much credit.

Cochise
01-20-2007, 08:25 AM
Penguins souring on Plan B
Governor calls deal hard to beat, but team balks at splitting development rights, parking

Saturday, January 20, 2007
By Mark Belko, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Gov. Ed Rendell yesterday said the arena deal being offered the Penguins is better than others struck recently in the National Hockey League, but the team has balked at a proposal to share development rights and parking revenues with Pittsburgh casino backer Don Barden.

Another issue that has come up in the talks is $10 million the Penguins may owe Isle of Capri Casinos Inc., which lost to Mr. Barden in the bidding for the city's casino license.

According to Mr. Rendell, the Penguins agreed to pay that amount if Isle of Capri failed to win the casino license but the team still secured a new arena in Pittsburgh.

During an interview yesterday, Mr. Rendell, coming off a late-night round of negotiations with the team Thursday, said the Penguins' share of the arena financing would be a "fraction" of what Pennsylvania's other professional sports franchises -- the Steelers, Pirates, Flyers, Eagles, and Phillies -- contributed toward their new homes.

"I believe the offer we put before the Penguins is the best of any offer that's been made to any NHL team for a new [arena] in recent times and it's also by far the best of any offer made to any Pennsylvania professional sports team for a new stadium," he said.

Mr. Rendell added that the Penguins' share under a sweetened Plan B funding formula would be "significantly below" the 18 percent the Pirates paid toward the construction of the $260 million PNC Park.

The Steelers paid about 44 percent of the $281 million cost of Heinz Field. Under Plan B, the Penguins initially would have paid about 20.7 percent toward a $290 million arena.

An October Post-Gazette survey found that since 2000, NHL teams have contributed anywhere from nothing to 30 percent of the cost of building new arenas.

While the governor touted the proposed Plan B deal as hard to beat, the Penguins apparently felt otherwise during a 90-minute meeting Thursday that broke off without an agreement.

According to sources, team representatives, including co-owner Ron Burkle, were stunned when state and local officials proposed that the Penguins share development rights and parking revenues with Mr. Barden, who was a surprise visitor to the negotiations.

The team saw the proposal as a worse deal than it would get under an extension available next year at Mellon Arena, one that would allow rent-free use of the building and give the franchise control over all building revenues, including parking.

In addition to sharing parking revenues and development rights, the state, city and county also want the team to pay rent at the new arena, in excess of the roughly $2 million a year it pays SMG at Mellon Arena, sources said.

Team officials saw the latest proposal as a setback after a "very positive" Jan. 4 meeting, they said. They were surprised to see Mr. Barden, who was invited by Mr. Rendell, and the proposals for sharing development rights and parking revenues. They also felt the overall plan represented a retreat from the previous session.

Mr. Barden has committed to providing $7.5 million a year for 30 years toward a new arena under the Rendell-crafted Plan B, which also calls for contributions from the Penguins and a slots-financed state economic development fund.

The casino operator said Thursday night he joined the talks to "observe and see if I can be helpful. I want to do everything I can to see that the Penguins stay in Pittsburgh."

The Penguins declined comment on all aspects of the talks yesterday, saying in a statement that "we'll continue to explore all of our options."

One of those options is Kansas City, where the $276 million Sprint Center will open this fall. The Penguins are being offered a deal that includes free rent and a share of building revenues. It's likely that the team will explore that option more seriously in the wake of Thursday's meeting. The Penguins' Mellon Arena lease expires at the end of June.

Mr. Rendell said the proposal to share development rights is a result of a city-Allegheny County Sports & Exhibition Authority resolution passed in 2005 offering such rights to any casino operator or private investor who commits to building a new arena.

The rights would extend to authority-owned property that now includes Mellon Arena, which would be demolished if a new facility is built across the street. Since neither Mr. Barden nor the Penguins would fully fund a new arena, the authority is talking to them jointly, Mr. Rendell said.

"The way the revenue streams are, neither one is solely responsible [for funding an arena], so together they would probably qualify under the [authority] recommendations," he said.

Asked about the sharing of parking revenues, Mr. Rendell replied, "Parking is on the table for discussion."

Despite the objections by the Penguins, Mr. Rendell believes Plan B is still better than what Kansas City is offering because the team would have to share building revenues there. In Pittsburgh, they would get virtually all such revenues from hockey and non-hockey events, excluding the parking.

The governor said the $10 million payment to Isle of Capri has come up in the talks as a cost the Penguins would have to bear if they stayed in Pittsburgh as opposed to moving to Kansas City.

Isle of Capri spokeswoman Jill Haynes said the company "does not comment on alleged content of confidential business agreements." The team also said it would not comment "on private business deals."

In the aftermath of Thursday's session, it is clear that whatever optimism preceded it now has dissipated. The governor conceded the results of the meeting were mixed.

"We made progress on some things and went back on others and that's very common in negotiations," he said.

Asked where they had fallen back, he replied, "some of the requests for relief from the Penguins."

While the governor had hoped for more progress, he said he still thought an agreement was possible.

"I'm still hopeful but there's a lot of posturing that goes on. That's true in these types of negotiations. That's true in business negotiations. It's true in labor negotiations."

No new talks have been scheduled, but Mr. Rendell said he hoped for another meeting soon.

(Mark Belko can be reached at mbelko@post-gazette.com or 412-263-1262. )

Sully
01-20-2007, 08:30 AM
Cochise, that article was the first thing I read this morning. It's the day after my birthday today, and things just continue to look better and better.

I agree with what you said, though. It's a lot more complex than any small dollar figure... but I can surely hope that the slope continues to angle toward us.

morphius
01-20-2007, 08:36 AM
I'm stealing that :p
I'll clean it up for you later this afternoon so that you can read the KC or Bust on it when it is smaller.

PunkinDrublic
01-20-2007, 09:11 AM
Awesome they posted the hate e-mail that I sent them yesterday.

morphius
01-20-2007, 01:45 PM
I'm stealing that :p

This one is a bit more readable...

morphius

Reaper16
01-20-2007, 01:53 PM
This one is a bit more readable...

morphius
Thanks!

Pitt Gorilla
01-20-2007, 03:16 PM
It's looking better. Go KC 'Guins!

PinkFloyd
01-21-2007, 06:56 AM
The Pens just fricking killed Toronto lastnite 8-2.....

Pens will win a Stanley Cup before the Chiefs win the big one...


So; for any of you who have never attented a championship parade in downtown KC --- you might wanna pray that this team is in KC soon...

Sully
01-21-2007, 10:18 AM
The Pens just fricking killed Toronto lastnite 8-2.....

Pens will win a Stanley Cup before the Chiefs win the big one...


So; for any of you who have never attented a championship parade in downtown KC --- you might wanna pray that this team is in KC soon...

I don't like to pray for sporting events....
... but way ahead of ya, pal.

Bearcat
01-21-2007, 10:30 AM
IMO, the NHL All-Star events are by far the best of any league, and I love watching the young all-star game, skills competition, and obviously the main event.

I haven't gotten to see the Pens much, and Versus doesn't have them scheduled anytime soon. They have Philly on quite a bit, so hopefully they'll change that. I wonder what they'll do if they move here... Fox Sports St Louis already shows plenty of Blues games :hmmm:

The hardest part will be letting go of the Avalanche.

tk13
01-21-2007, 10:42 AM
I still cannot believe they sprung Barden back into this again. What a slap in the face. The whole thing reeks of corruption.

Sully
01-21-2007, 10:50 AM
I still cannot believe they sprung Barden back into this again. What a slap in the face. The whole thing reeks of corruption.

And the fact that he is asking for shared money from the Pens is even worse. If they get the hometown discount, then great... but they seem to be giving up a lot.

Thig Lyfe
01-21-2007, 11:05 AM
I like the name Kansas City Penguins.

|Zach|
01-21-2007, 11:08 AM
Ya know,for some reason...

I just have a bad feeling about all this.

I really hope it works out for us.

Sully
01-21-2007, 11:17 AM
I like the name Kansas City Penguins.

I do, too.
I hope that if/when they move here, they are allowed to keep the name/colors/history of the team.

Sure-Oz
01-21-2007, 11:20 AM
That shirt really sucks...

I think this is the first time i've heard the word "Jagoffs" since 1998.

morphius
01-21-2007, 11:44 AM
That shirt really sucks...

I think this is the first time i've heard the word "Jagoffs" since 1998.
Well, look at the design, it is obvious that these guys are not geniuses. The whole, we got something to say but are going to say it in small print, says everything I need to know about this group of yahoo's.

Extra Point
01-21-2007, 11:59 AM
This town can't support an NHL nor an NBA team. If we had either, the team name should stay with the city. The Sacramento Kings...... bah!

KChiefs1
01-21-2007, 12:06 PM
KC Pens has a ring to it.

Sully
01-21-2007, 12:07 PM
This town can't support an NHL nor an NBA team.

I think you are wrong.

KChiefs1
01-21-2007, 12:08 PM
KC Pens has a nice ring to it.

Bearcat
01-21-2007, 12:29 PM
This town can't support an NHL nor an NBA team. If we had either, the team name should stay with the city. The Sacramento Kings...... bah!
Why not? And please don't mention things that happened 30 years ago.

We have the highest NHL tv ratings of any city without an NHL team, we have a shiny new arena and (soon) a downtown district that will attract people no matter what's going on, which means they don't have to win right away.... all 72 luxury suites have been sold and there's a waiting list, so those not getting the suites would probably buy the too-expensive-for-average-Joe first row seats. While season tickets are obviously expensive since it's 41 games, like MLB, there are smaller packages, and you can get good seats for $20; so even with parking you're saving $60+ from one Chiefs game. And lastly, what else is there to do during the last stretch of the NHL season? By the time the NHL postseason rolls around, the Royals are already mathmatically eliminated from the playoffs.


And FWIW, there's the LA Kings in hockey, so unfortunately we can't use it for either league.... but I like the Kansas City Penguins.

BigRedChief
01-22-2007, 06:55 AM
From Bobby:

They have 2 of the most highly praised prospects on their team since Jagr and Lemieux. Crosby who is 19 years old and was the youngest player(last year) to reach 100 points(at 18) and is said to have a higher upside than Gretzky and could soon break his records. Crosby leads the league in points this year, despite playing about 6-7 less games than everyone.

Crosby montage video from last year.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Oc1h_ZlNIus (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Oc1h_ZlNIus)

100th point game last year in his rookie season.(this goes to show the excitement in Pitt because of him)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3zW13uNumAU (http://youtube.com/watch?v=3zW13uNumAU)

This is Malkin's rookie season this year and he's off to an amzing start. Here's his highlight reel goal thus far.(notice the nice pass from Crosby)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nCB2dAxp9l8 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=nCB2dAxp9l8)


You guys should be over excited if this goes through, and i see no problems in selling out with that team who will soon win cups.

Keep in mind that hockey fans are the loudest/craziest fans in sports, so bring your voice boxes.

Check this crazzy vid out from last year up in Edmonton in the finals.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PEkQcu-g6II (http://youtube.com/watch?v=PEkQcu-g6II)

acesn8s
01-22-2007, 07:44 AM
Why do I have this feeling that KC will be a temporary home for the Penguins until Pitt can get off it's collective ass and make a real push to get them back.

Fish
01-22-2007, 07:53 AM
From Bobby:

They have 2 of the most highly praised prospects on their team since Jagr and Lemieux. Crosby who is 19 years old and was the youngest player(last year) to reach 100 points(at 18) and is said to have a higher upside than Gretzky and could soon break his records. Crosby leads the league in points this year, despite playing about 6-7 less games than everyone.

Crosby montage video from last year.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Oc1h_ZlNIus (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Oc1h_ZlNIus)

100th point game last year in his rookie season.(this goes to show the excitement in Pitt because of him)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=3zW13uNumAU (http://youtube.com/watch?v=3zW13uNumAU)

This is Malkin's rookie season this year and he's off to an amzing start. Here's his highlight reel goal thus far.(notice the nice pass from Crosby)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nCB2dAxp9l8 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=nCB2dAxp9l8)


You guys should be over excited if this goes through, and i see no problems in selling out with that team who will soon win cups.

Keep in mind that hockey fans are the loudest/craziest fans in sports, so bring your voice boxes.

Check this crazzy vid out from last year up in Edmonton in the finals.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=PEkQcu-g6II (http://youtube.com/watch?v=PEkQcu-g6II)

BRC... we're gonna turn you into a hockey fan yet....

Nice post!

BigRedChief
01-22-2007, 08:03 AM
BRC... we're gonna turn you into a hockey fan yet....

Nice post!
Just cut and paste from another site. Still don't know chit about hockey.

Al Bundy
01-22-2007, 08:12 AM
I'm pretty excited about the possibility of an NHL team in KC but I will be very upset if a couple of years down the line an NBA team is looking for a new home. I heard they only want one team in the Sprint Center. I would much rather have Basketball. Not that I don't like Hockey. I just like BB better.

No thanks, we already have enough gangsters and shootings in KC.

Al Bundy
01-22-2007, 08:13 AM
Why do I have this feeling that KC will be a temporary home for the Penguins until Pitt can get off it's collective ass and make a real push to get them back.

If they do move, there will be a 20 year lease agreement signed and they wont be able to get out. Plus by then Pittsburgh will have another team.

acesn8s
01-22-2007, 09:00 AM
Are the Penguins stable enough for a 20 year agreement?

Besides there is always a way to get out of an agreement.

Sully
01-22-2007, 11:45 AM
Are the Penguins stable enough for a 20 year agreement?

Besides there is always a way to get out of an agreement.


There is much weight by the league on the Pens to make it work in Pitt if they can. If they were to move, the league would NEVER allow them to move again... it would just look too bad for the league. They don't want to be the NBA, where a expansion team can move within 10 years.

And, yes, with new ownership, and a young team with superstars, the team will be plenty stable enough to stay.