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Dark Horse
01-20-2007, 09:24 PM
I was thinking about this today and just couldn't think of anyone who has had a better Chiefs career than Will Shields. Who would you guys say was the best at any position?

CoMoChief
01-20-2007, 09:26 PM
Is this one of the many All Chiefs Team threads we've had?

ChiTown
01-20-2007, 09:27 PM
Rainman (I think) did a HUGE thread/poll on this a couple of years ago. You can do a search on it to get what the general consensus was back then.

CoMoChief
01-20-2007, 09:30 PM
The greatest Chief of all time is Derrick Thomas. The fact that he simply turned this franchise around is 2nd to none.

ChiTown
01-20-2007, 09:33 PM
The greatest Chief of all time is Derrick Thomas. The fact that he simply turned this franchise around is 2nd to none.

Eh, he's one of them for sure, but there are lot's of great Chiefs - many of whom are already in the Pro Football HOF.

IMO, Bobby Bell was the greatest Chief of all-time, but again, that's debatable.

Dark Horse
01-20-2007, 09:36 PM
Is this one of the many All Chiefs Team threads we've had?

Yes but there is not much to do on a snowy night in Kansas.

FAX
01-20-2007, 09:36 PM
Willie Lanier.

FAX

cheefer
01-20-2007, 09:38 PM
If anyone finds the above mentioned thread from a couple of years ago before i do, post a link.

ChiTown
01-20-2007, 09:38 PM
Willie Lanier.

FAX

:clap:

Willie was great - an absolute manster in the middle.

I still have a jersey that he autographed for me in the early 70's,

milkman
01-20-2007, 09:38 PM
Eh, he's one of them for sure, but there are lot's of great Chiefs - many of whom are already in the Pro Football HOF.

IMO, Bobby Bell was the greatest Chief of all-time, but again, that's debatable.

I am on the fence.
I think Bobby Bell very well could be, but Willie Lanier is right there also.

You could debate for either and not go wrong.

milkman
01-20-2007, 09:39 PM
Willie Lanier.

FAX

Beat me to it, Mr Fax.

A case could be made for Buck Buchanon, as well.

He is still the prototype for today's DT.

Easy 6
01-20-2007, 09:40 PM
I dont think it can be boiled down to just 1, each era has its own hero's.

Technically though, my opinion is it would have to be someone from the Super Bowl team.

ChiTown
01-20-2007, 09:44 PM
Beat me to it, Mr Fax.

A case could be made for Buck Buchanon, as well.

He is still the prototype for today's DT.

Buck was such a great guy.

I'm just happy he got into the Hall before he passed away.

Dark Horse
01-20-2007, 09:49 PM
My argument for Shields is simply this, 13 straight pro bowls and two hundred and how many straight games not to mention certain hof. I do have to say that Lanier and Bell did make me have to think about it a lot but they played on better teams. Shields and his line mates turned a very mediocre offense into the best in the league.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-20-2007, 09:53 PM
This argument could be interpreted a couple of different ways....if you ask who had the greatest career as a chief, or who was the greatest player ever to wear a Chiefs uniform.

If you go with option A) then you are probably going to settle on Willie Lanier, Buck Buchanan, or Sean LaChapelle

If you go with option B), I'd say that you might have to say Willie Roaf...The guy was the best ever at his position, and that position is arguably the most important on the football field.

Immaculate
01-20-2007, 09:54 PM
Will Shields

milkman
01-20-2007, 09:55 PM
My argument for Shields is simply this, 13 straight pro bowls and two hundred and how many straight games not to mention certain hof. I do have to say that Lanier and Bell did make me have to think about it a lot but they played on better teams. Shields and his line mates turned a very mediocre offense into the best in the league.

Not to take anything away from Shields, but he has been a part of some outstanding O-Lines in KC since he was drafted, until this last season, so he benefitted from talent around him just as Lanier and Bell did.

Skip Towne
01-20-2007, 09:56 PM
Willie Lanier.

FAX
Yep. He always wins this poll.

Dark Horse
01-20-2007, 09:57 PM
This argument could be interpreted a couple of different ways....if you ask who had the greatest career as a chief, or who was the greatest player ever to wear a Chiefs uniform.

If you go with option A) then you are probably going to settle on Willie Lanier, Buck Buchanan, or Sean LaChapelle

If you go with option B), I'd say that you might have to say Willie Roaf...The guy was the best ever at his position, and that position is arguably the most important on the football field.

I probably can't argue against Lanier or even Buchanan but Roaf was not really a Chief long enough I think and LaChapelle well you are probably alone on that one.

Phobia
01-20-2007, 09:59 PM
I'm not an old-timer but even I can appreciate the value of Bell. Firstly, he was a HOF LB. That stands on its own. But his many other contributions to the team are seldom mentioned. Who knows them?

gblowfish
01-20-2007, 09:59 PM
Think of all the great outside linebackers in the history of the NFL:

Lawrence Taylor, Ted Hendricks, Derrick Thomas, Jack Ham....

Bobby Bell was the FIRST outside linebacker ever selected into the HOF.

That says a lot.

Plus, he was the Chiefs' deep snapper for punts and field goals, so he was also on special teams every year he was a Chief. That's something you'd never see nowadays.

He was an amazing athlete, and was a QB in High School. Here's part of his bio, judge for yourself:

The remarkably versatile Bell played quarterback, linebacker, offensive center, and defensive tackle at the University of Minnesota. He was a consensus All-American tackle in 1962, when he won the Outland Trophy as college football's outstanding lineman.

The 6-foot-4, 225-pound Bell had gigantic shoulders and chest, a 32-inch waist, and halfback speed. He joined the Kansas City Chiefs in 1963 and was listed as a defensive end during his first two seasons, but he often dropped back into a linebacker position in passing situations.

An All-AFL selection in 1964, Bell moved to linebacker the following season and was an All-AFL/AFC choice at the position eight consecutive years. He played in six straight AFL All-Star games and the first four AFC-NFC Pro Bowl games.

Bell helped lead the Chiefs to AFL championships in 1966 and 1969 and to a 23-7 victory over the Minnesota Vikings in Super Bowl IV. He retired after the 1974 season. In 12 years with the Chiefs, he intercepted 26 passes and returned them 479 yards, scoring 6 touchdowns. He also scored one touchdown on a fumble recovery and one on a kickoff return.

Dark Horse
01-20-2007, 10:03 PM
Not to take anything away from Shields, but he has been a part of some outstanding O-Lines in KC since he was drafted, until this last season, so he benefitted from talent around him just as Lanier and Bell did.

You hit the nail on the head, Shields was indeed part of some outstanding O lines, a very major part, maybe the most important part. Our o line has been good ever since he was drafted and great when he was paired with Roaf.

Ted Theodore Logan
01-20-2007, 10:05 PM
Joe Delaney!

gblowfish
01-20-2007, 10:06 PM
I don't think you can say a player was the greatest ever unless he was involved with bringing a world championship home.

So as good as Will Shields is,

you'd have to pick someone involved with Super Bowl IV as greatest ever. You gotta bring home the hardware. That's the object of the game.

ChiTown
01-20-2007, 10:07 PM
I don't think you can say a player was the greatest ever unless he was involved with bringing a world championship home.

So as good as Will Shields is,

you'd have to pick someone involved with Super Bowl IV as greatest ever. You gotta bring home the hardware. That's the object of the game.

Kinda my thoughts as well, but I'm sure there are exceptions.

Skip Towne
01-20-2007, 10:09 PM
I'm not an old-timer but even I can appreciate the value of Bell. Firstly, he was a HOF LB. That stands on its own. But his many other contributions to the team are seldom mentioned. Who knows them?
Emergency QB. Long snapper.

ChiTown
01-20-2007, 10:10 PM
Emergency QB. Long snapper.

Absolute freak of an athlete.

Skip Towne
01-20-2007, 10:12 PM
Absolute freak of an athlete.
Yes he was. He was a HSQB. I don't know when he became an LB.

ChiTown
01-20-2007, 10:13 PM
Yes he was. He was a HSQB. I don't know when he became an LB.

Not until he got to the Pro's. He was a DL in college (Outland winner)

Easy 6
01-20-2007, 10:13 PM
Joe Delaney!

Rep.

Dark Horse
01-20-2007, 10:15 PM
I don't think you can say a player was the greatest ever unless he was involved with bringing a world championship home.

So as good as Will Shields is,

you'd have to pick someone involved with Super Bowl IV as greatest ever. You gotta bring home the hardware. That's the object of the game.
I don't buy that, by that standard Barry Sanders and Dan Marino were not great.

Demonpenz
01-20-2007, 10:20 PM
Joe montana 8 pro bowls 4 superbowls. He was the best chiefs player.

Dark Horse
01-20-2007, 10:22 PM
Joe montana 8 pro bowls 4 superbowls. He was the best chiefs player.

I don't remember if he went to the pro bowl as a Chief, but I know he didn't win the SB here.

Demonpenz
01-20-2007, 10:26 PM
he was by far the best player to ever wear the chiefs jersey

gblowfish
01-20-2007, 10:27 PM
I don't buy that, by that standard Barry Sanders and Dan Marino were not great.It would be interesting to poll Dolphin fans as to who was the greater quarterback: Marino or Greise?

Greise won a SB. Griese led the last undefeated team in NFL history. I'd have to say he was the better of the two.

I'm not saying Marino or Sanders weren't great individual players. They just weren't the greatest ever in this history of the franchise they played for.

Thig Lyfe
01-20-2007, 10:28 PM
I was thinking about this today and just couldn't think of anyone who has had a better Chiefs career than Will Shields. Who would you guys say was the best at any position?

:rolleyes: Noob.

That being said, my answer is Steve Bono.

Deberg_1990
01-20-2007, 10:28 PM
Ronnie Lott.

HoF'er....

Dark Horse
01-20-2007, 10:32 PM
It would be interesting to poll Dolphin fans as to who was the greater quarterback: Marino or Greise?

Greise won a SB. Griese led the last undefeated team in NFL history. I'd have to say he was the better of the two.

I'm not saying Marino or Sanders weren't great individual players. They just weren't the greatest ever in this history of the franchise they played for.

Do you truly believe that Barry Sanders was not the greatest Lions player ever? Then who was?

gblowfish
01-20-2007, 10:35 PM
Do you truly believe that Barry Sanders was not the greatest Lions player ever? Then who was?
Bobby Layne, Doak Walker and Dick "Night Train" Lane were all great players.
Bobby Layne brought Detroit's last championship to them.
http://www.detroitlions.com/document_display.cfm?document_id=3990

Halfcan
01-20-2007, 10:39 PM
Steve Bono

Dark Horse
01-20-2007, 10:40 PM
Bobby Layne, Doak Walker and Dick "Night Train" Lane were all great players.
Bobby Layne brought Detroit's last championship to them.
http://www.detroitlions.com/document_display.cfm?document_id=3990

I don't remember watching any of those guys if they even played in the last 42 years but I doubt any of them had the talent of Barry Sanders.

Skip Towne
01-20-2007, 10:40 PM
Do you truly believe that Barry Sanders was not the greatest Lions player ever? Then who was?
Bobby Layne. Lem Barney.

Deberg_1990
01-20-2007, 10:42 PM
Do you truly believe that Barry Sanders was not the greatest Lions player ever? Then who was?

Billy Sims

Dark Horse
01-20-2007, 10:44 PM
Billy Sims
Now your just being silly.

Direckshun
01-20-2007, 10:48 PM
Rich Scanlon

gblowfish
01-20-2007, 10:50 PM
I don't remember watching any of those guys if they even played in the last 42 years but I doubt any of them had the talent of Barry Sanders.
Just because a player isn't from the modern era, doesn't mean he wasn't a great player. Perhaps the best player ever in the NFL was Ernie Nevers from the 1920's. Have you ever been to Canton? You should go if you get a chance.

Let's just look real quick at one guy, Doak Walker -who was Lamar Hunt's favorite player as a kid- and his bio vs. Barry Sanders:

Doak Walker
HOF Class of 1986
Halfback, 5-11, 173
Southern Methodist Univ
1950-1955 Detroit Lions

Ewell Doak Walker, Jr. . .Three-time All-America, 1948 Heisman Trophy winner. . .Played major role in Lions' successes, early 1950s. . .Ran 67 yards for winning TD in 1952 title game. . . Extremely versatile - rushed, passed, caught passes, returned punts and kickoffs, punted, placekicked and played defense in emergencies. . . Scored 534 points, won two NFL scoring titles. . .All-NFL five years. . .Played in five Pro Bowls. . .Born January 1, 1927, in Dallas, Texas. . .Died September 27, 1998, at age of 71.

Barry David Sanders. . .Detroit's first-round draft pick, 1989. . .Electrifying running style. . .First player to rush for 1,000 yards his first 10 seasons. . .Led NFL in rushing four times. . .NFL's MVP, 1997. . .Gained 2,053 yards including record 14 straight 100-yard games, 1997. . .Career rushing record: 15,269 yards, 99 TDs. . .First- or second-team All-NFL each of his 10 seasons. . .Selected to 10 Pro Bowls. . .Born July 16, 1968, in Wichita, Kansas.

So, Doak Walker played 6 years, Sanders played 10 years. Walker won a Heisman Trophy, Sanders did not. Walker won a World's Championship, Sanders did not. Both were great players in their era. Was Sanders clearly better? I don't think you can say so, if you measure a player's value to a team by what kind of results the player brought to the team.

There's been great individual players in many sports. What separates great individual players from the greatest players is....CHAMPIONSHIPS.

That's why the game is played, to win championships.

Skip Towne
01-20-2007, 10:50 PM
I don't remember watching any of those guys if they even played in the last 42 years but I doubt any of them had the talent of Barry Sanders.
Thurman Thomas kept Sanders on the bench at OSU so a lot of players had as much talent as Sanders.

Deberg_1990
01-20-2007, 10:51 PM
That's why the game is played, to win championships.

apparantly, Carl Peterson never got that memo....

cdcox
01-20-2007, 10:52 PM
Sheilds has not been the geatest player on the Chiefs offensive line for the last 5 years. It would be hard to declare him the best Chief ever.

Dark Horse
01-20-2007, 10:55 PM
Thurman Thomas kept Sanders on the bench at OSU so a lot of players had as much talent as Sanders.
Are you saying that Barry Sanders was not very talented?

Dark Horse
01-20-2007, 10:57 PM
Just because a player isn't from the modern era, doesn't mean he wasn't a great player. Perhaps the best player ever in the NFL was Ernie Nevers from the 1920's. Have you ever been to Canton? You should go if you get a chance.

Let's just look real quick at one guy, Doak Walker -who was Lamar Hunt's favorite player as a kid- and his bio vs. Barry Sanders:

Doak Walker
HOF Class of 1986
Halfback, 5-11, 173
Southern Methodist Univ
1950-1955 Detroit Lions

Ewell Doak Walker, Jr. . .Three-time All-America, 1948 Heisman Trophy winner. . .Played major role in Lions' successes, early 1950s. . .Ran 67 yards for winning TD in 1952 title game. . . Extremely versatile - rushed, passed, caught passes, returned punts and kickoffs, punted, placekicked and played defense in emergencies. . . Scored 534 points, won two NFL scoring titles. . .All-NFL five years. . .Played in five Pro Bowls. . .Born January 1, 1927, in Dallas, Texas. . .Died September 27, 1998, at age of 71.

Barry David Sanders. . .Detroit's first-round draft pick, 1989. . .Electrifying running style. . .First player to rush for 1,000 yards his first 10 seasons. . .Led NFL in rushing four times. . .NFL's MVP, 1997. . .Gained 2,053 yards including record 14 straight 100-yard games, 1997. . .Career rushing record: 15,269 yards, 99 TDs. . .First- or second-team All-NFL each of his 10 seasons. . .Selected to 10 Pro Bowls. . .Born July 16, 1968, in Wichita, Kansas.

So, Doak Walker played 6 years, Sanders played 10 years. Walker won a Heisman Trophy, Sanders did not. Walker won a World's Championship, Sanders did not. Both were great players in their era. Was Sanders clearly better? I don't think you can say so, if you measure a player's value to a team by what kind of results the player brought to the team.

There's been great individual players in many sports. What separates great individual players from the greatest players is....CHAMPIONSHIPS.

That's why the game is played, to win championships.
It takes more than one or two great players to win a championship. by this logic Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Marino.

Skip Towne
01-20-2007, 10:58 PM
Are you saying that Barry Sanders was not very talented?
Is that what I said? You aren't very smart, are you?

Dark Horse
01-20-2007, 10:59 PM
Sheilds has not been the geatest player on the Chiefs offensive line for the last 5 years. It would be hard to declare him the best Chief ever.

No Roaf has but Shields has been the best for the last 13 years

Halfcan
01-20-2007, 11:00 PM
Steve Bono had a longer run than LJ. Bono Beef baby!

gblowfish
01-20-2007, 11:01 PM
It takes more than one or two great players to win a championship. by this logic Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Marino.
Dilfer never played for the Dolphins.
He may be the greatest QB in Ravens history.

But Griese DID play for the Dolphins, is in the HOF, and in my opinion, was a better leader, and a more valuable player than Marino.

This all goes back to the question of whether Will Shields was the most valuable and most talented Chiefs player ever.

If you don't like Lanier or Bell as a choice, Dawson is the only Chiefs Super Bowl MVP, so that's a major prop for him.

Dark Horse
01-20-2007, 11:02 PM
Is that what I said? You aren't very smart, are you?
Yes that is basically what you said and you shouldn't question some one elses intelligence if you think Thurman Thomas is better than Barry Sanders.

Skip Towne
01-20-2007, 11:02 PM
No Roaf has but Shields has been the best for the last 13 years
So Shields hasn't been the best for the last five years but he has been the best for the last 13. OK, gotcha.

Skip Towne
01-20-2007, 11:02 PM
Yes that is basically what you said and you shouldn't question some one elses intelligence if you think Thurman Thomas is better than Barry Sanders.
OSU's coach thought he was.

Dark Horse
01-20-2007, 11:07 PM
OSU's coach thought he was.

Coaches are not always right.

Dark Horse
01-20-2007, 11:09 PM
So Shields hasn't been the best for the last five years but he has been the best for the last 13. OK, gotcha.

Why is that so hard to understand? Roaf was our best for a short period of time but over the long haul Shields has been.

Skip Towne
01-20-2007, 11:12 PM
Why is that so hard to understand? Roaf was our best for a short period of time but over the long haul Shields has been.
So Shields was the best for 8 years and Roaf for 5? How does that equate to Shields for 13?

Dark Horse
01-20-2007, 11:16 PM
So Shields was the best for 8 years and Roaf for 5? How does that equate to Shields for 13?

OK you've got me there. Let me rephrase Shields has been the best for a longer duration.

Skip Towne
01-20-2007, 11:25 PM
OK you've got me there. Let me rephrase Shields has been the best for a longer duration.
But he wasn't the best once Roaf showed up. Wouldn't his streak have stopped then?

Dark Horse
01-20-2007, 11:27 PM
But he wasn't the best once Roaf showed up. Wouldn't his streak have stopped then?
What part of "you've got me there", do you not understand

Skip Towne
01-20-2007, 11:31 PM
What part of "you've got me there", do you not understand
I don't understand why you started such an ignorant thread. Are you retarded? Is it genetic? Are your parents morons?

Dark Horse
01-20-2007, 11:35 PM
I don't understand why you started such an ignorant thread. Are you retarded? Is it genetic? Are your parents morons?

I won't waste anymore of my time arguing with you and I won't insult you good night.

Skip Towne
01-20-2007, 11:39 PM
I won't waste anymore of my time arguing with you and I won't insult you good night.
I was just having fun with you like I do all n00bs. Sorry if you took it wrong. Good night.

milkman
01-20-2007, 11:42 PM
Back to Bobby Bell.

His versatility allowed Hank Stram to design and implement the Stack Defense, which essentially introduced the 34 defense, when Bell dropped out of his DE position to the LB spot.

Skip Towne
01-20-2007, 11:49 PM
Back to Bobby Bell.

His versatility allowed Hank Stram to design and implement the Stack Defense, which essentially introduced the 34 defense, when Bell dropped out of his DE position to the LB spot.
Bell was a 224 pound DE? How things have changed. However, Oklahoma's 1956 Championship team featured a center who was 5'8" and weighed 158 pounds.

88TG88
01-21-2007, 12:03 AM
i think its gonzo. he is a monster on the field and could go down as the best at his postion ever.

Rausch
01-21-2007, 12:09 AM
I was thinking about this today and just couldn't think of anyone who has had a better Chiefs career than Will Shields. Who would you guys say was the best at any position?

Since I've been a fan (89-current) I'd have to agree. Amazing to think that in free agency we might have two HOF players (Shields, Gonzo) spend their entire careers here.

And I'm convinced that had DT not had the accident he would have been a Chief as well.

Dark Horse
01-21-2007, 08:40 AM
i think its gonzo. he is a monster on the field and could go down as the best at his postion ever.

I probably can't argue against Gonzo either.

Buck
01-21-2007, 08:42 AM
I think its quite obvious. Marc Boerighter. 99 Yard TD against my Chargers.

Dark Horse
01-21-2007, 08:49 AM
I think its quite obvious. Marc Boerighter. 99 Yard TD against my Chargers.

That would qualify in another thread, Greatest blunders by opposing defenses, and yes would certainly be a candidate.

boogblaster
01-21-2007, 09:02 AM
Bell was a freak in his time,the very best..but Gonzo should get a long look too, he'll soon be the very best of his time...

Dark Horse
01-21-2007, 09:12 AM
I just don't remember much about bell, I do remember Lanier and how great he was. This question is for the old timers, who was better Bell or Lanier?

rad
01-21-2007, 09:29 AM
Not to take anything away from Shields, but he has been a part of some outstanding O-Lines in KC since he was drafted, until this last season, so he benefitted from talent around him just as Lanier and Bell did.

True, but one could argue that Shields was a player that made other players around him better.

milkman
01-21-2007, 03:40 PM
I just don't remember much about bell, I do remember Lanier and how great he was. This question is for the old timers, who was better Bell or Lanier?

Bell was fast and athletic, and sure tackler.
And as discussed before, he was extremely versatile.

Think LT (the original).

Lanier was an intimidating and physical MLB, every bit as hard hitting as Dick Butkus, and faster.

Both were also excellent in pass coverage.

So to answer your question, I'd have to say, who the hell knows?

Along with Jim Lynch, they formed one of the top LB groups of all time.

Reerun_KC
01-21-2007, 03:43 PM
How about Neil Smith?

Great bookend with Thomas..

Saw the writing on the wall and went to the hated Broncos to get his Super bowl rings...

Have to be the smartest player on the Chiefs of all time. He knew Carl sucked ass and knew that the chance of winning a Super bowl in KC is pretty much hopeless with current Front office staff...

Phobia
01-21-2007, 03:47 PM
How about Neil Smith?

Have to be the smartest player on the Chiefs of all time.

Yeah, just like you're the smartest guy on ChiefsPlanet.

milkman
01-21-2007, 03:50 PM
How about Neil Smith?

Great bookend with Thomas..

Saw the writing on the wall and went to the hated Broncos to get his Super bowl rings...

Have to be the smartest player on the Chiefs of all time. He knew Carl sucked ass and knew that the chance of winning a Super bowl in KC is pretty much hopeless with current Front office staff...

I believe you are the first dumbass to ever claim that Smith was smart.

Skip Towne
01-21-2007, 04:13 PM
Bell was fast and athletic, and sure tackler.
And as discussed before, he was extremely versatile.

Think LT (the original).

Lanier was an intimidating and physical MLB, every bit as hard hitting as Dick Butkus, and faster.

Both were also excellent in pass coverage.

So to answer your question, I'd have to say, who the hell knows?

Along with Jim Lynch, they formed one of the top LB groups of all time.
Lanier hit so hard he cracked his helmet. He had to have one special made.

Reerun_KC
01-22-2007, 02:16 PM
I believe you are the first dumbass to ever claim that Smith was smart.


Thanks buddy!

chagrin
01-22-2007, 02:25 PM
Someone link up the previous exercise

Extra Point
01-22-2007, 02:57 PM
Look at the pair-ups:

Bell and Lanier
Shields and Roaf
Thomas and Smith
Dawson and Taylor

My money is on Dawson.

Ecto-I
01-22-2007, 03:57 PM
Kendel Gammon - Can't remember this guy ever making a mistake...

Reerun_KC
01-22-2007, 03:59 PM
Yeah, just like you're the smartest guy on ChiefsPlanet.

Far from it...

Chief Chief
01-22-2007, 04:01 PM
I submit for your serious consideration the one, the only,..Linn Elliott!!

Yeah..like Lanier, Shields, Thomas, and company never had a bad game!!

crazycoffey
01-22-2007, 04:16 PM
trick question

crazycoffey
01-22-2007, 04:33 PM
surely DT was mentioned