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View Full Version : Is Grossman the worst QB to ever start the Super Bowl?


'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 09:55 PM
I really can't think of anyone worse...who QB'ed the LA Rams against the Steelers? Even Kerry Collins was better than Grossman.

Sure-Oz
01-21-2007, 09:55 PM
Yes

OnTheWarpath58
01-21-2007, 09:58 PM
Yes.

Worse than Kerry Collins, worse than Trent Dilfer.

Worse than Vince Ferragamo, if that's who you were referring to, Hamas.

The worst. Period.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 09:58 PM
Vince Ferragamo QB'ed the Rams...and even he was better than Grossman.

NJ Chief Fan
01-21-2007, 09:58 PM
Ben Rothlisburger?

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 09:59 PM
Ben Rothlisburger?

Roethlisberger is a mediocre to below average QB. Grossman makes JP Losman look like Brett Favre.

ChiefaRoo
01-21-2007, 10:00 PM
He's the dumbest.

Frazod
01-21-2007, 10:03 PM
Roethlisberger is a mediocre to below average QB. Grossman makes JP Losman look like Brett Favre.

That's a lie.

Only our secondary could make Losman look like Favre. :spock:

KurtCobain
01-21-2007, 10:03 PM
grossman is gonna stink it up.

OnTheWarpath58
01-21-2007, 10:04 PM
Damn. I've racked my brain, and the only other I can think of is Chris Chandler, and even he was light years better than Grossman.

Phobia
01-21-2007, 10:06 PM
Grossman is horrible. Absolutely horrible.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 10:08 PM
Damn. I've racked my brain, and the only other I can think of is Chris Chandler, and even he was light years better than Grossman.

Yeah...he was made of glass, but he was pretty good in 98 and 99.

Sure-Oz
01-21-2007, 10:08 PM
I'm waiting for Bob Sanders to pick off a few passes from him. Freeney will be up his ass all day too.

Thig Lyfe
01-21-2007, 10:09 PM
Dilfer and Chandler came to mind. Grossman's on about that level of SB quarterbacks.

Tony Dungy
01-21-2007, 10:09 PM
As all good teams do, our D is stepping up and doing what they need to when it really matters.

Grossman does not stand a chance against the Big Colt Machine.

DJJasonp
01-21-2007, 10:09 PM
Kerry Collins - NY Giants.

Nuff said.

Rain Man
01-21-2007, 10:09 PM
Elway. Elway was the worst, and don't you people ever forget it.

Dave Lane
01-21-2007, 10:10 PM
I think Dilfer was in his league but I do think wutamess or Phil or hell even I could do better job, gack he is as bad as it gets.

Dave

Tom Brady
01-21-2007, 10:10 PM
Peyton Manning is the worst. He will shoke like a baby will a banana.

Rain Man
01-21-2007, 10:11 PM
As all good teams do, our D is stepping up and doing what they need to when it really matters.

Grossman does not stand a chance against the Big Colt Machine.

Fishbone Manning is your bigger worry.

Demonpenz
01-21-2007, 10:11 PM
Steve Grogen

ChiefaRoo
01-21-2007, 10:11 PM
Yeah...he was made of glass, but he was pretty good in 98 and 99.


When I lived in Atlanta the local talk show guys called him Chrystal Chandalier because he was injured so often.

Frazod
01-21-2007, 10:13 PM
Hey, at least Grossman didn't throw any picks or fumble. That's a step in the right direction.

DJJasonp
01-21-2007, 10:13 PM
Neil o'donnel wasnt very good either.

Thig Lyfe
01-21-2007, 10:13 PM
Elway. Elway was the worst, and don't you people ever forget it.


I was going to say this, but I wanted you to.

OnTheWarpath58
01-21-2007, 10:13 PM
Steve Grogen

I thought about him also, but still think Grossman is the bottom of the barrel.

Tony Dungy
01-21-2007, 10:14 PM
Peyton Manning is the worst. He will shoke like a baby will a banana.

We are playing in the SB... you will be home watching it. Remember that.... Go Chiefs.

Tom Brady
01-21-2007, 10:14 PM
We are playing in the SB... you will be home watching it. Remember that.... Go Chiefs.

May god let let Peyton's head implode this week.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 10:15 PM
I thought Tony Eason started that Bowl and not Grogan?

Frazod
01-21-2007, 10:17 PM
May god let let Peyton's head implode this week.

DEATH TO MANNING

:cuss:

OnTheWarpath58
01-21-2007, 10:18 PM
I thought Tony Eason started that Bowl and not Grogan?

I know Eason played, but can't remember if he got hurt early, or Grogan got hurt late.

I think you're right. I think Eason got hurt early.


EDIT: Eason started, went 0-6 and I believe came out injured.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 10:20 PM
Hey, at least Grossman didn't throw any picks or fumble. That's a step in the right direction.
living in Chicago now...

I just wish my family had stayed here while I was a kid...

It would be a lot easier to be a Bears fan than it is to be a Chiefs fan...

Rain Man
01-21-2007, 10:22 PM
I was going to say this, but I wanted you to.

Thanks. You're a pal.

Frazod
01-21-2007, 10:23 PM
living in Chicago now...

I just wish my family had stayed here while I was a kid...

It would be a lot easier to be a Bears fan than it is to be a Chiefs fan...

It's hard not to root for them after being at the game today.

Tom Brady
01-21-2007, 10:25 PM
living in Chicago now...

I just wish my family had stayed here while I was a kid...

It would be a lot easier to be a Bears fan than it is to be a Chiefs fan...

Damon Huard is so sexy.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 10:25 PM
It's hard not to root for them after being at the game today.
my roommate's a cop...he was working the game...said it was awesome. I was working but saw most of the game...

OnTheWarpath58
01-21-2007, 10:25 PM
It's hard not to root for them after being at the game today.

Well, considering the alternative.......

Seriously, glad you had a good time. You know how much I hate the Rams, but I got a chance to go to the 99 NFC championship game, and I felt the same way at the time.

I thought you had decided to give your ticket to a friend?

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 10:26 PM
and I wish the Chiefs had someone like Rex Grossman...at least the Bears have a future at QB...right now we have Brodie Croyle and Casey Printers...which isn't too pretty.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 10:28 PM
and I wish the Chiefs had someone like Rex Grossman...at least the Bears have a future at QB...right now we have Brodie Croyle and Casey Printers...which isn't too pretty.

He's one of the 3 or 4 worst starting QB's in the league. I'd much much much rather have Croyle than that sack of shit.

tk13
01-21-2007, 10:29 PM
The entire NFL is mediocre... look at the sloppy Super Bowl last year. Parity has kinda become medocrity. The Bears and Colts aren't horrible teams, but they're a team with a QB who had the most bad QB rating games in the league, versus the team with the 32nd ranked run defense. Without looking it up I'm guessing that's the first time the league's worst run defense has made the Super Bowl.

OnTheWarpath58
01-21-2007, 10:30 PM
He's one of the 3 or 4 worst starting QB's in the league. I'd much much much rather have Croyle than that sack of shit.

I'm surprised you put 3-4 below him.......

Who off the top of your head?

Frazod
01-21-2007, 10:31 PM
Well, considering the alternative.......

Seriously, glad you had a good time. You know how much I hate the Rams, but I got a chance to go to the 99 NFC championship game, and I felt the same way at the time.

I thought you had decided to give your ticket to a friend?
The guy I offered my ticket to decided it was too much of an imposition on me to go to the trouble of getting the tickets and not get to enjoy the game. I tried to talk him out of it, but he made up his mind.

Of course, since he's a Saints fan, it worked out just fine for him in the end; had he attended, he'd have just paid $150 to watch his team get slaughtered.

And the guy who went with me, a life-long Bears fan, had the time of his life. It felt great being able to contribute to that.

BWillie
01-21-2007, 10:31 PM
Rex Grossman really isn't that bad, in essence, he's almost a rookie QB. He's been hurt his entire career thus far, and he's going to get better. His problem is that he makes bad decisions, all novice QB's do. If I had to pick between Huard, Green, Croyle, and Grossman for next year I think I'd actually pick Grossman.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 10:32 PM
Leinart: better
Smith: Better
Bulger: Better
Hasselbeck: Better

Vick: Better
Brees: Light years better
Delhomme: Better
Simms: Shitty, but just a little better

T. Jackson: Worse
Kitna: A little better (sadly)
Favre: Better

McNabb: Better
Romo: A homo, but better
E. Manning: Sadly, even he's better
J. Campbell: Promising...and better

Green: Better
Rivers: Better
Brooks/Walter: Worse
Cutler: Better

Carr: About the same
Garrard: Better
Manning: C'mon
V. Young: Better

Harrington: Worse, but still outplayed him H2H
Pennington: Better
Brady: C'mon
Losman: Still better

Frye: Worse
Roethlisberger: A little better
Palmer: Better
McNair: Horrible, washed up, but still...better.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 10:32 PM
He's one of the 3 or 4 worst starting QB's in the league. I'd much much much rather have Croyle than that sack of shit.
I don't think that's true at all...

He has a lot of potential.

He had some really bad games but this is really his first season as a full time starter.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 10:33 PM
I'd rather have Grossman then any of our QB's...and it's not even close.

OnTheWarpath58
01-21-2007, 10:33 PM
The guy I offered my ticket to decided it was too much of an imposition on me to go to the trouble of getting the tickets and not get to enjoy the game. I tried to talk him out of it, but he made up his mind.

Of course, since he's a Saints fan, it worked out just fine for him in the end; had he attended, he'd have just paid $150 to watch his team get slaughtered.

Yeah, that's not a lot of fun, I can speak from experience. Figures my first losing road game ever was in the playoffs......

Go Bears.

Thig Lyfe
01-21-2007, 10:33 PM
and I wish the Chiefs had someone like Rex Grossman...at least the Bears have a future at QB...right now we have Brodie Croyle and Casey Printers...which isn't too pretty.
Option right! Go!

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 10:34 PM
(and keep in mind I watched every single Bears game this year, so it's not like I don't get the opportunity to see the guy play)...

His problem is inconsistency. He either has a very solid game, or a very poor game. The dude had 6 career starts entering this season. I think he gets a few years before he can be considered 'trash.'

And besides, he's in the Super Bowl starting at QB, isn't he?

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 10:35 PM
Oh, and, when the Bears needed him most today he stepped up and made some FANTASTIC throws.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 10:36 PM
I'd rather have Grossman then any of our QB's...and it's not even close.

Grossman has two good RBs, two good WRs, a very good line, an above average TE, a very very good defense, and he still sucks ass.

The guy has been in the league 3 years. Mentally, he should not make these dumb motherf*cker decisions...had it been 3 games, then yes, but this guy makes 8th grade throws at the NFL level.

OnTheWarpath58
01-21-2007, 10:37 PM
Leinart: better
Smith: Better
Bulger: Better
Hasselbeck: Better

Vick: Better
Brees: Light years better
Delhomme: Better
Simms: Shitty, but just a little better

T. Jackson: Worse
Kitna: A little better (sadly)
Favre: Better

McNabb: Better
Romo: A homo, but better
E. Manning: Sadly, even he's better
J. Campbell: Promising...and better

Green: Better
Rivers: Better
Brooks/Walter: Worse
Cutler: Better

Carr: About the same
Garrard: Better
Manning: C'mon
V. Young: Better

Harrington: Worse, but still outplayed him H2H
Pennington: Better
Brady: C'mon
Losman: Still better

Frye: Worse
Roethlisberger: A little better
Palmer: Better
McNair: Horrible, washed up, but still...better.

I could argue for Frye, Harrington and Walter. I think they could all do better than Grossman if playing for the Bears. JMO.

Agree 100% on Tavaris Jackson.

KurtCobain
01-21-2007, 10:37 PM
Oh, and, when the Bears needed him most today he stepped up and made some FANTASTIC throws.

You fall in love with the shittiest QBs.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 10:37 PM
Oh, and, when the Bears needed him most today he stepped up and made some FANTASTIC throws.

He threw two nice hook patterns, and lobbed a pass up there that decent CB would have picked off. It was a terrible pass...

Your hero finished 11-26 against anything but a withering pass rush.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 10:38 PM
I could argue for Frye, Harrington and Walter. I think they could all do better than Grossman if playing for the Bears. JMO.

Agree 100% on Tavaris Jackson.

Oh I thought about it...but I wanted to be objective-ish

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 10:39 PM
Grossman is my hero?

Hahahaha.

All I said was, he's better than anything (for the future) that we have on our roster.

We have two 33+ QB's and two shitty non roster spot deserving QB's on our team!

Grossman has shown in plenty of games he has what it takes to be an NFL QB...

KcMizzou
01-21-2007, 10:41 PM
I don't understand how so many people can pass judgement on Croyle. (either way) We haven't even seen the guy play yet...

BWillie
01-21-2007, 10:42 PM
Well, Grossman has played fine in the playoffs so far. He had 5 great games to start the season, had a lull, and played pretty well at the end of the season. Maybe he's just streaky? I'm not saying he's a great QB, or ever will be, but I think he can manage into a formidable starter in time.

tk13
01-21-2007, 10:42 PM
I don't know if I'd take Grossman over Croyle.

KurtCobain
01-21-2007, 10:42 PM
I'm excited about Croyle and believe he has more talent than Grossman could possibly pray to ala for.

Buck
01-21-2007, 10:43 PM
I dont know. What about Joe Kapp?

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 10:43 PM
Well, Grossman has played fine in the playoffs so far. He had 5 great games to start the season, had a lull, and played pretty well at the end of the season. Maybe he's just streaky? I'm not saying he's a great QB, or ever will be, but I think he can manage into a formidable starter in time.
most of these guys commenting on him have watched him play MAYBE three times all season long...

So, in other words, they have no clue what they're talking about.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 10:44 PM
and did anyone mention Stan Humphries?

KcMizzou
01-21-2007, 10:44 PM
most of these guys commenting on him have watched him play MAYBE three times all season long...

So, in other words, they have no clue what they're talking about.How many times have you seen Croyle play this season?

tk13
01-21-2007, 10:45 PM
That's not true, I've watched the fair majority of Bears games this year. I like Grossman, he's got a good arm, but he makes some really bad decisions sometimes.

milkman
01-21-2007, 10:45 PM
I don't understand how so many people can pass judgement on Croyle. (either way) We haven't even seen the guy play yet...

They're clairvoyant.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 10:46 PM
How many times have you seen Croyle play this season?
If the guy ever starts for the Chiefs, starts every game for an entire season, and then starts the first game of the next season after that
...I'll be totally shocked.

Croyle isn't any good. Wasn't any good in college, either.

BWillie
01-21-2007, 10:46 PM
I'm excited about Croyle and believe he has more talent than Grossman could possibly pray to ala for.

Well Grossman was a first rounder, I think it's a little early to tell either way as of yet.

OnTheWarpath58
01-21-2007, 10:47 PM
If the guy ever starts for the Chiefs, starts every game for an entire season, and then starts the first game of the next season after that
...I'll be totally shocked.

Croyle isn't any good. Wasn't any good in college, either.

There's my new sig......

SoCalBronco
01-21-2007, 10:48 PM
Griese will wipe the floor with Manning.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 10:48 PM
That's not true, I've watched the fair majority of Bears games this year. I like Grossman, he's got a good arm, but he makes some really bad decisions sometimes.
His offensive coordinator, Ron Turner, doesn't help the matter.

Why the Bears pass so much with two solid RB's and a terriffic defense is beyond me, anyways.

Grossman is young and made rookie mistakes on a consistent basis all year long. Since he's essentially a rookie, I think that's ok, for now...

They compared his year this year, to Drew Brees' first year in San Diego, and the numbers were pretty identical.

Drew Brees turned out ok, didn't he?

And starting in the Super Bowl can do nothing but help Rex's confidence. If they win, I could see Rex becoming one of the best QB's in the leauge over the next 5 years. Confidence goes a long ways in the NFL if you're a QB.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 10:48 PM
I watched parts of all of Grossman's games this year...it's the benefit of Sunday Ticket.

ChiefaRoo
01-21-2007, 10:49 PM
I'm excited about Croyle and believe he has more talent than Grossman could possibly pray to ala for.

God, I hope your right.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 10:50 PM
I'm excited about Croyle and believe he has more talent than Grossman could possibly pray to ala for.
hahahaha.

Now that is funny.

In terms of raw talent, Grossman has more talent than any QB the Chiefs have ever had.

Talent isn't a question with Grossman, it's decision making.

There was a reason he was a 1st round pick and Croyle was a 3rd round pick...

BWillie
01-21-2007, 10:50 PM
If the guy ever starts for the Chiefs, starts every game for an entire season, and then starts the first game of the next season after that
...I'll be totally shocked.

Croyle isn't any good. Wasn't any good in college, either.

Bah Croyle would be fine, he didn't have that much in college. He's a gunslinger type of QB. It's difficult to judge a guy that only came in for a few meaningless mop-up minutes this year. I said I would take Grossman over Croyle next year because of the talent level and experience Grossman has had. Like it or not, Grossman took a team to the Super Bowl, is a first rounder, and has experience under his belt. Not that we would ever have a chance to have Grossman really, but it's fun to argue about it.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 10:51 PM
what I don't like about Rex is the way he throws the ball...

His release is awkward and gets on my nerves...

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 10:51 PM
His offensive coordinator, Ron Turner, doesn't help the matter.

Why the Bears pass so much with two solid RB's and a terriffic defense is beyond me, anyways.

Grossman is young and made rookie mistakes on a consistent basis all year long. Since he's essentially a rookie, I think that's ok, for now...

They compared his year this year, to Drew Brees' first year in San Diego, and the numbers were pretty identical.

Drew Brees turned out ok, didn't he?

And starting in the Super Bowl can do nothing but help Rex's confidence. If they win, I could see Rex becoming one of the best QB's in the leauge over the next 5 years. Confidence goes a long ways in the NFL if you're a QB.

Drew Brees is intelligent. Rex Grossman isn't.

Bowser
01-21-2007, 10:51 PM
Grossman seems to have the tools and skills, but his problem is in his head. He makes a bad decision, and he seems to have trouble forgetting about it.

milkman
01-21-2007, 10:53 PM
.

There was a reason he was a 1st round pick and Croyle was a 3rd round pick...

That kinda sounds like, "There's a reason he's been a backup his whole career".

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 10:53 PM
Drew Brees is intelligent. Rex Grossman isn't.
Yeah, ok.

I bet you've listened to a lot of Rex's interviews, haven't you?!

The guy is very intelligent and is the ultimate team player. He acknowledges is faults and bites the bullet when he's at fault. He understands he makes boneheaded plays, but seriously, the dude has 22 career starts now I believe. Give him a friggin' break.

Besides, you saying he isn't intelligent is just downright hilarious. You have no CLUE.

KcMizzou
01-21-2007, 10:53 PM
That kinda sounds like, "There's a reason he's been a backup his whole career".LMAO

Thats gonna leave a mark.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 10:54 PM
hahahaha.

Now that is funny.

In terms of raw talent, Grossman has more talent than any QB the Chiefs have ever had.

Talent isn't a question with Grossman, it's decision making.

There was a reason he was a 1st round pick and Croyle was a 3rd round pick...

So just to clarify, your stance is that Rex Grossman is more talented than Len Dawson and Joe Montana?

You're a profoundly retarded motherf*cker.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 10:56 PM
That kinda sounds like, "There's a reason he's been a backup his whole career".
Not really...

Trent Green is probably one of the least gifted QB's in the league, and if he was entering the draft, he'd probably be overlooked just like he was before...

What made Green great was his ability to master a system and use his head to make good plays. Scouts can't scout that...

That's why all of these talented guys like Ryan Leaf, Joey Harrington, David Carr etc... have been busts. All the talent in the world, but lack the makeup of a successful QB.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 10:56 PM
Yeah, ok.

I bet you've listened to a lot of Rex's interviews, haven't you?!

The guy is very intelligent and is the ultimate team player. He acknowledges is faults and bites the bullet when he's at fault. He understands he makes boneheaded plays, but seriously, the dude has 22 career starts now I believe. Give him a friggin' break.

Besides, you saying he isn't intelligent is just downright hilarious. You have no CLUE.

Donovan McNabb SOUNDS intelligent when he gives an interview...but it's pretty damned easy to do so when you are coached through the process and given constant softballs...of course, this same McNabb scored a f*cking ten on his Wonderlic...

Basing your assessment of his intelligence on canned interviews is about as smart as your claim that he's more talented than any QB the Chiefs have ever had.

ChiefaRoo
01-21-2007, 10:57 PM
So just to clarify, your stance is that Rex Grossman is more talented than Len Dawson and Joe Montana?

You're a profoundly retarded motherf*cker.


GO HJ GO!

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 10:57 PM
Not really...

That's why all of these talented guys like Ryan Leaf, Joey Harrington, David Carr etc... have been busts. All the talent in the world, but lack the makeup of a successful QB.

Because they are F*CKING IDIOTS who crack under pressure...just like your boy.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 10:58 PM
So just to clarify, your stance is that Rex Grossman is more talented than Len Dawson and Joe Montana?

You're a profoundly retarded motherf*cker.
Absolutely.

Joe Montana wasn't a super talented QB...he was just a winner with a very accurate and clutch arm.

He had all of the mental aspects of being a QB down to a T...that has nothing to do with talent.

Ryan Leaf had more talent than Joe Montana, too...


It's funny how you claim to be this super-intelligent person but you don't understand the most simple logic.

tk13
01-21-2007, 10:58 PM
I think Grossman has potential, he's got a great arm... but I definitely don't get the interview thing, that's about the worst possible argument... Grossman was the guy who said he wasn't prepared for a game because he was excited about partying for New Year's... yeaaaah, that's leadership.

OnTheWarpath58
01-21-2007, 10:58 PM
There was a reason he was a 1st round pick and Croyle was a 3rd round pick...

IIRC, 2003 was a pretty shallow draft for QB's.

Leftwich and Boller were second and third behind Carson Palmer.

Grossman was the 4th picked.

On talent alone, Croyle would have gone 4th also, behind Young, Leinart, and Cutler. Injuries pushed him to the 3rd.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 10:59 PM
Because they are F*CKING IDIOTS who crack under pressure...just like your boy.
First off, Rex isn't 'my boy', and secondly, how has he cracked under pressure? The whole city of Chicago was calling for Griese and Rex has them in the Super Bowl.

That's cracking under pressure, alright!

milkman
01-21-2007, 10:59 PM
Not really...

Trent Green is probably one of the least gifted QB's in the league, and if he was entering the draft, he'd probably be overlooked just like he was before...

What made Green great was his ability to master a system and use his head to make good plays. Scouts can't scout that...

That's why all of these talented guys like Ryan Leaf, Joey Harrington, David Carr etc... have been busts. All the talent in the world, but lack the makeup of a successful QB.

The point is "There's a reason....." never made a dent with you.
You sure as hell can't expect it to work in reverse.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 11:01 PM
I think Grossman has potential, he's got a great arm... but I definitely don't get the interview thing, that's about the worst possible argument... Grossman was the guy who said he wasn't prepared for a game because he was excited about partying for New Year's... yeaaaah, that's leadership.
haha.

So, listening to someone talk and answer questions in an interview isn't a good way to determine whether or not they are intelligent?!

How do people get hired if this is the case?

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 11:01 PM
Absolutely.

Joe Montana wasn't a super talented QB...he was just a winner with a very accurate and clutch arm.

He had all of the mental aspects of being a QB down to a T...that has nothing to do with talent.

Ryan Leaf had more talent than Joe Montana, too...


It's funny how you claim to be this super-intelligent person but you don't understand the most simple logic.

Logic as in "talent only equates to physical and not mental tools"?

There are plenty of gangbangers, crack heads, and inbreds in Mississippi who could chuck a football 70 yards, but it doesn't make them talented. Talent is a holistic evaluation of both mental and physical aspects.

Of course, arguing this with someone whose definition of logic is lobotomized is probably like ice-skating uphill.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 11:01 PM
haha.

So, listening to someone talk and answer questions in an interview isn't a good way to determine whether or not they are intelligent?!

How do people get hired if this is the case?

Watch the interview scene from Bull Durham again, get a f*cking clue, and get back to us.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 11:02 PM
The point is "There's a reason....." never made a dent with you.
You sure as hell can't expect it to work in reverse.
I guess...

Huard obviously should've been starting over Trent after the injury, and we all know that now...

It's a shame I'm not our head coach, we might be in the Super Bowl right now...I know Damon would've been starting had I been the guy calling the shots.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 11:03 PM
I'm still completely flabbergasted that you think the most cerebral position in all of sports, the most mentally demanding of all doesn't include mental acumen as part of its talent evaluation process

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 11:03 PM
Logic as in "talent only equates to physical and not mental tools"?

There are plenty of gangbangers, crack heads, and inbreds in Mississippi who could chuck a football 70 yards, but it doesn't make them talented. Talent is a holistic evaluation of both mental and physical aspects.

Of course, arguing this with someone whose definition of logic is lobotomized is probably like ice-skating uphill.
Well, mentally Montana was the best ever. That's for sure.

But we're talking about raw, physical talent here. Spin it any way you want, but Grossman has more talent than Montana had. He does.

LeBron has more talent than MJ, too.

Doesn't mean either win will ever turn into a winner and be considered one of the best ever...

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 11:05 PM
I'm still completely flabbergasted that you think the most cerebral position in all of sports, the most mentally demanding of all doesn't include mental acumen as part of its talent evaluation process
Well it must not be a big part of it, because Devin Hester was drafted in the 2nd round of the NFL draft...and he's the dumbest human being on the planet.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 11:05 PM
First off, Rex isn't 'my boy', and secondly, how has he cracked under pressure? The whole city of Chicago was calling for Griese and Rex has them in the Super Bowl.

That's cracking under pressure, alright!

Minnesota, Arizona, Miami, Green Bay....

Any time the dude gets anyone in his face the ball is up for grabs. He's a human turnover machine...

There's a reason why he nearly led the f*cking league in turnovers in the second half (compared to other TEAMS, not players)

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 11:05 PM
Well it must not be a big part of it, because Devin Hester was drafted in the 2nd round of the NFL draft...and he's the dumbest human being on the planet.

What about that did you not get?

"The most cerebral position in all of sports"

"the most mentally demanding"

Since when does Grossman return kicks, or Hester play QB?

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 11:08 PM
Minnesota, Arizona, Miami, Green Bay....

Any time the dude gets anyone in his face the ball is up for grabs. He's a human turnover machine...

There's a reason why he nearly led the f*cking league in turnovers in the second half (compared to other TEAMS, not players)
and those games he played poorly in matter because...

??

When the Bears needed him the most, in the last two games, in the postseason, he delivered.

He's been the starting QB since day 1, has led the Bears to a 15-3 record, and is starting in the Super Bowl.

He's had his fair share of GREAT games, GOOD games, AVERAGE games, and totally SHITTY games...

But, what is he doing in two Sunday's? He's starting at QB in the Super Bowl.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 11:08 PM
But we're talking about raw, physical talent here. Spin it any way you want, but Grossman has more talent than Montana had. He does.

No, you're talking about arm strength as the sole determinent of quarterback talent, accounting nothing for accuracy, intelligence, decision making, pocket presence, or an ability to read a defense.

Hey, if you want to posit 1/6 of the argument as all of the argument, go ahead. I'm sure you'll go a long way with 16%s.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 11:08 PM
What about that did you not get?

"The most cerebral position in all of sports"

"the most mentally demanding"

Since when does Grossman return kicks, or Hester play QB?
You must be smarter than all of the scouts and experts who had his dumbass going in the first round.

I mean, he's such an idiot and is so unintelligent, he shouldn't have been drafted at all, right?!?!

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 11:10 PM
and those games he played poorly in matter because...

??

When the Bears needed him the most, in the last two games, in the postseason, he delivered.

He's been the starting QB since day 1, has led the Bears to a 15-3 record, and is starting in the Super Bowl.

He's had his fair share of GREAT games, GOOD games, AVERAGE games, and totally SHITTY games...

But, what is he doing in two Sunday's? He's starting at QB in the Super Bowl.

You put anyone in the league behind that center and the Bears are in the same place.

Look, I'm tired of mentally eviscerating you. It's like punting a dwarf. It's fun after a while, but after you watch them scrape themselves off the pavement, waddle back over and say "is that the best you've got" for the tenth time, you stop laughing at their missing teeth and just move on.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 11:10 PM
No, you're talking about arm strength as the sole determinent of quarterback talent, accounting nothing for accuracy, intelligence, decision making, pocket presence, or an ability to read a defense.

Hey, if you want to posit 1/6 of the argument as all of the argument, go ahead. I'm sure you'll go a long way with 16%s.
Grossman had better numbers than Trent Green this year.

Grossman can throw the deep ball, and hit his RB in the flats, too...

Shit, we'd probably be a playoff team with Grossman as our QB. Grossman > Green.

I think just about every QB in the league other than Walter was better than Green this year.

Pitt Gorilla
01-21-2007, 11:11 PM
Stan Humphries, Jim Plunkett, and Trent Dilfer all come to mind.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 11:12 PM
You put anyone in the league behind that center and the Bears are in the same place.

You have no idea if this is true or not. But, we do know, Rex Grossman is the starting QB in the Super Bowl in two weeks.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 11:12 PM
You must be smarter than all of the scouts and experts who had his dumbass going in the first round.

I mean, he's such an idiot and is so unintelligent, he shouldn't have been drafted at all, right?!?!

Appeal to authority is still a fallacy.

Grossman is a MORON. He can't read a defense, he can't account for pressure, he's inaccurate, and he has no confidence in himself as soon as something goes wrong.

If scouts knew this then, he'd have dropped like a rock...

Better than Kyle Orton does not = good. He's not even the best QB on their roster.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 11:13 PM
You have no idea if this is true or not. But, we do know, Rex Grossman is the starting QB in the Super Bowl in two weeks.

Yeah, and if I'm Lovie Smith and I pencil in George Halas' corpse he becomes the starting QB...it doesn't mean that he'd be or is a good QB.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 11:15 PM
Appeal to authority is still a fallacy.

Grossman is a MORON. He can't read a defense, he can't account for pressure, he's inaccurate, and he has no confidence in himself as soon as something goes wrong.

If scouts knew this then, he'd have dropped like a rock...

Better than Kyle Orton does not = good. He's not even the best QB on their roster.
You have no idea what you're talking about.

You can tell me all you want that you watched a lot of Bears game this year, I honestly doubt you have.

I have watched them all, and I can tell you, Grossman played well more times than he played poor.

And, I can also tell you...when Grossman did something TOTALLY stupid, he often bounced back and made something happen a drive or two later...

All QB's make mistakes. Grossman made more than he had to...but Green had as many, if not more, turnovers per game than Grossman...

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 11:19 PM
Grossman had better numbers than Trent Green this year.

Grossman can throw the deep ball, and hit his RB in the flats, too...

Shit, we'd probably be a playoff team with Grossman as our QB. Grossman > Green.

I think just about every QB in the league other than Walter was better than Green this year.

Green's Completion % 61.1 Grossman 54.6

TD/INT Ratio 7/9, 23/20

Rating 74.1 73.6


So, in two of the three most important QB cats, Green beats out Grossman, despite being the 2nd worst QB in the league, in your opinion, even finishing with a higher rating....and the one Category that Grossman did beat him in, he ended up nearly leading the f*cking league in picks.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 11:21 PM
You have no idea what you're talking about.

You can tell me all you want that you watched a lot of Bears game this year, I honestly doubt you have.

I have watched them all, and I can tell you, Grossman played well more times than he played poor.

And, I can also tell you...when Grossman did something TOTALLY stupid, he often bounced back and made something happen a drive or two later...

All QB's make mistakes. Grossman made more than he had to...but Green had as many, if not more, turnovers per game than Grossman...

Green, 8 games 12 Turnovers

Grossman 16 games, 25 Turnovers

You're wrong again, talking about of your ass again, making an ass out of yourself again.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 11:21 PM
Green would've had at least 16 INT's if he started every game, and the dude has been in the league 30 years now...

Grossman > Green and Grossman was pretty much a rookie this year.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 11:22 PM
Green, 8 games 12 Turnovers

Grossman 16 games, 25 Turnovers

You're wrong again, talking about of your ass again, making an ass out of yourself again.
hey skippy, multiply Green by two and you get the same ****ing number...

Jesus Christ.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 11:23 PM
and the last time I made an ass out of myself (Huard), I was 100% right.

So how can I be making an ass out of myself again, when I never made an ass out of myself in the first place?

???

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 11:25 PM
hey skippy, multiply Green by two and you get the same ****ing number...

Jesus Christ.

Ok so 2*12=25??

And I'm the one who doesn't know anything about logic?

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 11:26 PM
Green would've had at least 16 INT's if he started every game, and the dude has been in the league 30 years now...

Grossman > Green and Grossman was pretty much a rookie this year.

Is 16 more or less than 20...and did or did not Green play 12 games against the patsies in the NFC, cause I'd like to know.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 11:28 PM
Ok so 2*12=25??

And I'm the one who doesn't know anything about logic?
are you kidding me right now?

I said Green averaged the same, if not more turnovers per game than Grossman.

BIG ****ING DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 24 AND 25.

hahahahaha

MAN.

tk13
01-21-2007, 11:28 PM
To be fair, Grossman didn't face a defense as good as San Diego or Baltimore... both Brady and Manning looked terrible against those defenses last week. I don't think Grossman would've faired any better. He threw three picks against New England. There was probably one good defense in the NFC, and he only faced them in practice.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 11:29 PM
Is 16 more or less than 20...and did or did not Green play 12 games against the patsies in the NFC, cause I'd like to know.
All I know is 16 is FAR TOO many for a QB known as an accurate, smart QB...

Grossman is a gunslinger, gunslingers should have more INT's than QB's like Green...

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 11:29 PM
To be fair, Grossman didn't face a defense as good as San Diego or Baltimore... both Brady and Manning looked terrible against those defenses last week. I don't think Grossman would've faired any better. He threw three picks against New England.
how many INT's did Huard throw against San Diego?

Just wondering...

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 11:30 PM
are you kidding me right now?

I said Green averaged the same, if not more turnovers per game than Grossman.

BIG ****ING DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 24 AND 25.

hahahahaha

MAN.

Green played every game against the AFC and still averaged fewer TO's than did "Sexy Rexy" who played against the Lions, Packers, and Vikings D's *2, the Cardinals, 49ers, Rams, Seahawks, among others...that's a murderers row.....:rolleyes:

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 11:31 PM
All I know is 16 is FAR TOO many for a QB known as an accurate, smart QB...

Grossman is a gunslinger, gunslingers should have more INT's than QB's like Green...

Gunslinger is another term for a guy who makes stupid throws but the media slurps his ass b/c 1/10 it works out for him. So if you like being a phuqtard, then congrats.

tk13
01-21-2007, 11:33 PM
how many INT's did Huard throw against San Diego?

Just wondering...
That was in Arrowhead. Plus we scored 21 points because we had the short field three times because we forced turnovers. Huard did not play any better than Green against good defenses on the road.

Short Leash Hootie
01-21-2007, 11:36 PM
That was in Arrowhead. Plus we scored 21 points because we had the short field three times because we forced turnovers. Huard did not play any better than Green against good defenses on the road.
So, in your opinion, Green was the better option for the Chiefs over Huard upon returning from his injury?

tk13
01-21-2007, 11:52 PM
So, in your opinion, Green was the better option for the Chiefs over Huard upon returning from his injury?
I don't think Trent was the reason we lost the playoff game. I'm not sure he was 100%, and I understand wanting to play Croyle this coming year... but I absolutely do not think Trent Green was the reason we lost. I think he was the only player on offense who showed up. We had an offensive line that couldn't block, a RB that did nothing, and WR's who dropped almost anything that hit them on the hands. You can sit there and argue until you're blue in the face, and try and be a jerk and all that, but Trent wasn't the reason we lost the game, and I don't think that decision had any bearing on what happened to this team in the playoffs.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-21-2007, 11:53 PM
So, in your opinion, Green was the better option for the Chiefs over Huard upon returning from his injury?

Please, please watch the interviews of these four QBs on sportscenter...b/c if that's what you put your intelligence quotient stock in, you're going to be sorely disappointed when you hear Cliche Grossman sputter about in early caveman.

BWillie
01-22-2007, 12:31 AM
You aren't going to beat Hammas Jenkins in an agrument. You just arent. One thing I must say about the guy is he can debate, and even if he's wrong, he has enough web charisma, logic, and street smarts to make his point sound correct to the masses even though it may not be. I'm pretty sure Hammas could just argue the other way around for Grossman, and if you were on the other end, it would still appear he won the argument. You just aren't a very good arguer, but I see your point.

I do as well think Grossman has got the short end of the stick by many people. Don't get me wrong, I think Green is much better than Grossman, but if you are talking about giving me and option of Grossman, Huard, Green, or Croyle for next year. I am going with Grossman. For the reasons I mentioned before (1st rounder, essentially a rookie, super bowl experience, experience as a starter, good arm, etc) and then some.

This season, Grossman has thrown the ball 544 times, and been picked off 21 times. Green has thrown the ball 198 times and been picked off 9 times. This means Grossman has throws a pick 1 time in every 26 attempts, while Green threw a pick 1 time in every 22. Additionally, while watching Bears games I've seen them try to use the vertical passing game. Most of Grossman's picks were deep passes downfield, which we did essentially nothing of this year. Grossman has as many starts as a typicall rookie entering his second year in the league. Look at how Alex Smith progressed from his first year to his second year. Alex Smith was alot worse than Rex has been this year. If you put Grossman in the Huardian offense of not throwing alot of deep passes, I don't think Rex would of had as many turnovers. I just don't think it's time to throw Rex under the bus yet, he could develop into a decent starting QB.

Sure-Oz
01-22-2007, 12:35 AM
Grossman>Green wow, you truly are a green hater. You are so full of shit H00tie. Yeah he got to a SB thanks to a weak ass nfc and a great defense and special teams. Grossman is a joke of a QB, give green the bears line and players this game wouldve been ugly, EARLY for NO.

DT4everaChief
01-22-2007, 03:42 AM
I really can't think of anyone worse...who QB'ed the LA Rams against the Steelers? Even Kerry Collins was better than Grossman.

Trent Dilfer when Balitmore won the Superbowl.

Short Leash Hootie
01-22-2007, 04:46 AM
Grossman>Green wow, you truly are a green hater. You are so full of shit H00tie. Yeah he got to a SB thanks to a weak ass nfc and a great defense and special teams. Grossman is a joke of a QB, give green the bears line and players this game wouldve been ugly, EARLY for NO.
Grossman gets rid of the ball. Green does not. The whole 'the offensive line doesn't block for Green' argument is ridiculous. Huard didn't seem to have a problem and he still had the same porous offensive line.

Green was probably one of the five worst starting QB's in the NFL this year. Saying otherwise is simply ridiculous.

J Diddy
01-22-2007, 04:53 AM
Grossman gets rid of the ball. Green does not. The whole 'the offensive line doesn't block for Green' argument is ridiculous. Huard didn't seem to have a problem and he still had the same porous offensive line.

Green was probably one of the five worst starting QB's in the NFL this year. Saying otherwise is simply ridiculous.

omfg, you are delusional

did you even watch the games

Short Leash Hootie
01-22-2007, 05:05 AM
omfg, you are delusional

did you even watch the games
If you're talking about the Bears; yes.
If you're talking about the Chiefs; yes (but in much, MUCH, much greater detail..)

J Diddy
01-22-2007, 05:11 AM
If you're talking about the Bears; yes.
If you're talking about the Chiefs; yes (but in much, MUCH, much greater detail..)

you know there comes a time that a man must hang it up, I realize this.
I'm sure Green realizes this, I'm sure he realizes that it's sooner rather than later.


As a decent person you should have a little more respect for what he has done since he got here. If he loses the job in Training camp (assuming he's still around) then so be it.

To bash him constantly like you do was kind of funny at first, now it's like a 2 year old whining about having to go to the bathroom.

Let it fugging rest

ILChief
01-22-2007, 05:12 AM
The thing with Grossman is that he is so up and down. When he's on, he makes throws (usually deep balls to Berrian) that not many other QBs could make. But when he's off he's rotten. If you say the good Grossman, then yes there are several QBs worse to make a superbowl (Dilfer, Humphries, O'Donnell). If you take the stinky Grossman, then probably not. All that being said, he's better than Green (the washed up Green of this year)

htismaqe
01-22-2007, 06:24 AM
Grossman isn't a BAD QB.

He's INCONSISTENT.

He was 2nd in the league in number of games over 100 QB rating.

He was 2nd in the league in number of games UNDER 10.

the Talking Can
01-22-2007, 06:31 AM
Dilfer is far and away the worst.

Grossman is just stupid.

bobbything
01-22-2007, 07:07 AM
And starting in the Super Bowl can do nothing but help Rex's confidence.
It sure did wonders for Ben Roethlisberger.

I don't know if Grossman is any better or worse than Kerry Collins. They're the same player IMO. Both make flashy plays and stupid, stupid errors. Which is why I think Grossman, like Collins, will urinate down his leg in the SB.

The Grossman vs. Green debate is rather interesting. Hootie, if you're talking about for the future, then it would be dumb not to take Grossman. He's 100 years younger than Green. But, if you're talking about one year (possibly next year), I don't see how you wouldn't go with Green. Right now, he's still better than Grossman; even with the bad season he had.

(I still contest that if he hadn't gotten injured that he would have had a better season than he did at the end. Definitely not the type of season that he's had in the past, but an okay season nonetheless.)

Fairplay
01-22-2007, 07:11 AM
Stupid Grossman will be driving his Ferrai in Miami.

HonestChieffan
01-22-2007, 08:18 AM
Lets see....Superbowl....had to play a good reg season, win a few, then playoffs...win every one....and some people proceed to bag on the guy?

Gotta love sports fans.

Easy 6
01-22-2007, 08:45 AM
Neil o'donnel wasnt very good either.

This is the answer, O'Donnell he had a COMPLETELY average arm & didnt make good decisions either. When i think about this guy, the 1st thing that comes to mind is wobbly, weak passes & a blank stare.

Couldnt throw a tight spiral to save his life.

DTLB58
01-22-2007, 09:25 AM
I really can't think of anyone worse...who QB'ed the LA Rams against the Steelers? Even Kerry Collins was better than Grossman.

Vince Ferragamo was the starting QB for the Rams in SB XIV.
He Started the last four games of the season for Pat Haden who was sidelined with a broken finger.

Ferragamo's stats on the year were of 53 of 110 for 48% 778 yards 5 TD's and 10 INT's.
His SB #'s were 15 of 25 60% 212 yards 1 int and 0 TD's

The Rams led 19-17 after 3 quarters but the Steelers came back with 2 fourth quarter TD's to win 31-19

DTLB58
02-01-2007, 09:41 AM
Found this little tidbit to add to this convo.

Super Bowl XII Broncos starting QB Craig Morton's stats ROFL

Denver Att. Comp. Yds. TD Int.
Morton 15 4 39 0 4

BucEyedPea
02-01-2007, 11:23 AM
If Grossman beats Roth's QB rating of 23 (? was in the low 20's) he won't be the worst. :moon:

Redrum_69
02-01-2007, 11:26 AM
ELVIS GRBAC

DTLB58
02-01-2007, 11:55 AM
If Grossman beats Roth's QB rating of 23 (? was in the low 20's) he won't be the worst. :moon:

Morton's rating was 0

Baby Lee
02-01-2007, 11:58 AM
Found this little tidbit to add to this convo.

Super Bowl XII Broncos starting QB Craig Morton's stats ROFL

Denver Att. Comp. Yds. TD Int.
Morton 15 4 39 0 4
That was gonna be my vote. Poor guy, spent years jockeying with Staubach for Landry's favor. Finally strikes out on his own, finds his way to the SB w/another team, and gets cold pwned by his old team.

Calcountry
02-01-2007, 12:05 PM
Elway. Elway was the worst, and don't you people ever forget it.You STILL wake up from nightmares with the cold sweats don't you?

KcMizzou
02-04-2007, 08:35 PM
Bump... thought maybe this was worth revisiting.

He sure looked like it in the second half tonight.

Bowser
02-04-2007, 08:36 PM
Put me down for a yes.

Baconeater
02-04-2007, 08:36 PM
I'll go yes.

cdcox
02-04-2007, 08:38 PM
Not worse than Red Ass Rich. But close.

greg63
02-04-2007, 08:38 PM
Is Grossman the worst QB to ever start the Super Bowl?

Why yes; yes he is.





That is all.

the Talking Can
02-04-2007, 08:40 PM
Gannon played the worst

but Grossman is the worst

boogblaster
02-04-2007, 08:41 PM
Grossoutt is not a QB you'd want to take to the SB..hate to see a team like the Bears get there and have to humble themselfs with that kind of play out of a QB....

Frazod
02-04-2007, 08:42 PM
I'm voting yes. The f#cker can't be counted on to take a snap without fumbling, run without falling over or pass without throwing an interception. Chicago should have made the switch to Greasy mid-season. It's not like his bad play came as a surprise to anybody.

:banghead:

cdcox
02-04-2007, 08:44 PM
What I don't get is why not start Brian Greise? He's not a great QB, but I don't recall seeing him throw ball after ball up for grabs. I think the Bears had better options on their roster and plenty of time to change to plan B.

Cochise
02-04-2007, 08:46 PM
I wonder how many other QBs in the league you could have put in there for Grossman and the Bears win today?

15? 20?

greg63
02-04-2007, 08:46 PM
I'm voting yes. The f#cker can't be counted on to take a snap without fumbling, run without falling over or pass with throwing an interception. Chicago should have made the switch to Greasy mid-season. It's not like his bad play came as a surprise to anybody.

:banghead:

Exactly! :banghead:

Extra Point
02-04-2007, 10:01 PM
I think Lovie Smith pulled a Herm. Should have pulled Grossman at halftime.

I'm just glad that Johnny Unitas got some kudos he really deserved.

Frazod
02-04-2007, 11:04 PM
I think Lovie Smith pulled a Herm. Should have pulled Grossman at halftime.

I'm just glad that Johnny Unitas got some kudos he really deserved.

Grossman really didn't play that poorly in the first half. His hall of shame streak hit in the 3rd quarter.

Extra Point
02-05-2007, 12:13 AM
I disagree. Grossman should have been yanked after the first half.

Sure-Oz
02-05-2007, 12:14 AM
he was 20-28 164 yards 1td 2int, not nearly as bad of a line as i thought, but man fumbles and shit cost em. Just giving shit back to the colts.

KCWolfman
02-05-2007, 12:19 AM
He didn't have a record number of interceptions in a SB as St Rich the Fallen did. But yes, IMO, he is by far the worst to ever get to a SB.

Fairplay
02-05-2007, 05:35 AM
Grossman really didn't play that poorly in the first half. His hall of shame streak hit in the 3rd quarter.


I believe Grossman had only 3 passes in the first half.

Most of the game he spent on the sideline watching the Colts go up and down the field.

Chiefs_Fan
02-05-2007, 06:05 AM
The worst from start to finish.

Have there been any BG's that lost the Super Bowl and didn't play the next year? Can't count retirment!