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View Full Version : Advice? I'm asking the Planet...and bragging a bit. Heh


Mr. Kotter
01-22-2007, 09:22 PM
I love this place, and have come thoroughly enjoy many of the folks here. I'm seeking some advice, which I may or may not take. :)

Some of you may have noticed I haven't been around much. Well, one of the reasons is I'm in the middle of a major life decision....so indulge me for a moment with the background if you are inclined.

Many old-timers know I'm teach HS Social Studies in a "suburban type" district. Long story made short, I love teaching and education but the pay sucks. Bad. Especially in SD. Particularly for a family of six. Anyway, I've been pondering what to do with our lives. So here I am....

I had thought about continuing to teach, and moonlighting as a political or education author as I have some things brewing in my head that I want to put "out there." Downside? Pay continues to suck for awhile, and I may or may not actually "make it" writing.

So I asked myself, is the money of educational administration (being a principal) worth the headaches? I convinced myself, yes it is. So, even though I have a masters degree, I now need an administrative masters degree to be a principal outside of SD. Hell, I can do it, I decide. Not only that, the classroom has become somewhat routine, and I need a new challenge. So....

I decide to get certified as an administrator (outside of SD,) conceding the sacrifice of possibly having to move--which is actually looking more and more attractive to me. While in the "program" I realize, becoming a Superintendent of a school district might actually be more down my alley. But I think, do I really want to do a PhD? SO, I take my tests to figure out if it's even a realistic possibility. So here I am....

Six months into my EdS, I finally take the test (the Miller's analogy)required for official admission into the program and score much higher than I had anticipated. I'm actually getting letters from schools asking me to apply.....heck, my score would get me into Harvard (I'm not shitting you.) I just laughed out loud. I can't afford to go to Harvard....and I have four young kids--- so no way I can do that, but it was flattering nonetheless.

The bottom-line is, I can make it a PhD with about 2.5 years of work at a respectable local university (while I continue to teach).

My question: do I commit to that full bore, get the PhD....then get a principals job and get some experience, and become a Superintendent of schools later. OR, do I apply for administrative jobs during the next year, and try to complete the PhD while I'm gaining experience as an administrator so I can eventually become a Superintendent if I decide to? OR, do I continue doing what I love--teaching....and save myself a whole lot of money and work....and try the whole writing thing, that I'll eventually try anyway. :shrug:

(EDIT: FWIW, I just turned 43....and have kids that are 10, 7, 5, and 3)

What, say you, ChiefsPlanet??? :hmmm:

88TG88
01-22-2007, 09:26 PM
if it were me i would get the PHd first and then the principal then later on a superintendent

Phobia
01-22-2007, 09:26 PM
Put out a bowl of antifreeze.

Mr. Kotter
01-22-2007, 09:28 PM
Put out a bowl of antifreeze.

For me, or the fam? :hmmm:

:p

Bill Parcells
01-22-2007, 09:29 PM
Get the PHd first

Count Alex's Wins
01-22-2007, 09:31 PM
Do one of the first two options. Then you can really start cracking down on kids that tell you to lick their balls.

Thig Lyfe
01-22-2007, 09:32 PM
PhD. People will buy any book written by a doctor. Like Dr. Phil.

milkman
01-22-2007, 09:33 PM
I think you should continue to teach, and write cliff notes.

Cochise
01-22-2007, 09:34 PM
What town are you teaching in right now?

BucEyedPea
01-22-2007, 09:34 PM
"Apply for administrative jobs during the next year, and try to complete the PhD while I'm gaining experience as an administrator so I can eventually become a Superintendent if I decide to."

Would be my way, work/study kinda seems a more practical and more effective mix. That way you can see for real what is BS and what works.

But it really comes down to what works best for you. Only you know that.

JM 2¢

Mr. Kotter
01-22-2007, 09:36 PM
What town are you teaching in right now?

Sioux Falls

Simplex3
01-22-2007, 09:36 PM
I'd kill myself. I mean come on, you're constantly in school, you're poor as f**k despite being highly intelligent and you have a house full of curtain-climbers.


:)

j/k of course, and I have no real suggestions because I hate academic life completely.

DeepSouth
01-22-2007, 09:37 PM
Four Kids ? Get a vasectomy.

el borracho
01-22-2007, 09:38 PM
Is this a correct assessment of the choices?

1. PhD first, then principal, then Superintendent (less money at first but achieve your goal sooner)

2. Administrative position while earning the PhD, then Superintendent (better money immediately but longer to achieve your goal)

3. die penniless in a gutter as your brood learns to survive on roasted pidgeon

Simplex3
01-22-2007, 09:39 PM
Four Kids ? Get a vasectomy.
Hehe. I'm getting some popcorn.

Cochise
01-22-2007, 09:39 PM
Sioux Falls

Nice. Did you happen to see the Storm's championship game last fall or whenever it was? I was the guy who was way too loaded.

Mr. Kotter
01-22-2007, 09:39 PM
I'd kill myself. I mean come on, you're constantly in school, you're poor as f**k despite being highly intelligent and you have a house full of curtain-climbers.


:)

j/k of course, and I have no real suggestions because I hate academic life completely.
Heh. Even as a pedagogue, I can appreciate your sentiment. And I like JagerShots too.

Anyway, once I got the PhD....I'd no longer have ANY excuse to be in school. That alone makes it an attractive option... :hmmm:

Mr. Kotter
01-22-2007, 09:40 PM
Nice. Did you happen to see the Storm's championship game last fall or whenever it was? I was the guy who was way too loaded.

I was at the game. Way cool. "The guy" way too loaded....that narrows it down to about 2,000 or so fans. :D

BucEyedPea
01-22-2007, 09:40 PM
Sioux Falls
Woot! I can say I've been through there at least....on my way to Badlands/Mr Rushmore in summer 2000! I was surprised to see people there. :)

Cochise
01-22-2007, 09:42 PM
I was at the game. Way cool. "The guy" way too loaded....that narrows it down to about 2,000 or so fans. :D

I was too. Have a couple friends in the area and just happened to be around that weekend. Can they cram 2,000 into that barn? :p

Simplex3
01-22-2007, 09:42 PM
Heh. Even as a pedagogue, I can appreciate your sentiment. And I like JagerShots too.

Anyway, once I got the PhD....I'd no longer have ANY excuse to be in school. That alone makes it an attractive option... :hmmm:
Back off wif dem der college words boy...

Mr. Kotter
01-22-2007, 09:45 PM
Four Kids ? Get a vasectomy.

:(

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=150538

:banghead:

Mr. Kotter
01-22-2007, 09:46 PM
I was too. Have a couple friends in the area and just happened to be around that weekend. Can they cram 2,000 into that barn? :p

HEY! :cuss:

The "Arena" holds 6,500 for football. :harumph:

:p

Simplex3
01-22-2007, 09:48 PM
:(

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=150538

:banghead:
ROFL

Keep that one bookmarked do ya?

Mr. Kotter
01-22-2007, 09:57 PM
ROFL

Keep that one bookmarked do ya?
Nah....I had to do a search. :p

el borracho
01-22-2007, 10:00 PM
Is this a correct assessment of the choices?

1. PhD first, then principal, then Superintendent (less money at first but achieve your goal sooner)

2. Administrative position while earning the PhD, then Superintendent (better money immediately but longer to achieve your goal)

3. die penniless in a gutter as your brood learns to survive on roasted pidgeon
Seriously, are these the options? I need to understand the options before I can advise you.

FAX
01-22-2007, 10:01 PM
This very serious life question requires thought, Mr. Mr. Kotter.

So, I'm going to have to disqualify myself.

FAX

Bob Dole
01-22-2007, 10:04 PM
If you're going to get a terminal degree and are that motivated, why in the hell would you choose to stay in the public schools as an administrator instead of moving up to the university level and working your way up that ladder?

FAX
01-22-2007, 10:05 PM
If you're going to get a terminal degree and are that motivated, why in the hell would you choose to stay in the public schools as an administrator instead of moving up to the university level and working your way up that ladder?

Yeah.

FAX

Phobia
01-22-2007, 10:07 PM
If you're going to get a terminal degree and are that motivated, why in the hell would you choose to stay in the public schools as an administrator instead of moving up to the university level and working your way up that ladder?
Do prepubescent boys attend universities?

Bob Dole
01-22-2007, 10:11 PM
Do prepubescent boys attend universities?

Not typically, though Neil Patrick Harris was an exception.

BWillie
01-22-2007, 10:13 PM
I think you should become a sheppard. Move to Nashua, get a nice little spread, get some sheep, and tend to them.

Bob Dole
01-22-2007, 10:14 PM
I think you should become a sheppard. Move to Nashua, get a nice little spread, get some sheep, and tend to them.

Is there any place left in Nashua suitable for raising sheep? Didn't they turn everything north of Barry Road into a golf course?

cdcox
01-22-2007, 10:21 PM
If you're going to get a terminal degree and are that motivated, why in the hell would you choose to stay in the public schools as an administrator instead of moving up to the university level and working your way up that ladder?

An assistant prof has to work their tail off to make tenure. Pay isn't all that great and all his previous teaching experience would count for very little. He'd be in competition with other assistant profs who are working 80 hours a week to make their mark in academia. With Kotter's family situation and his, uh, experience and maturity (let the reader understand), this isn't the exactly the best time to embark on that path, imo.

Skip Towne
01-22-2007, 10:31 PM
If you need these Planet dipshits to make this decision then you are too stupid to be a Superintendent.

Mr. Kotter
01-22-2007, 10:34 PM
If you need these Planet dipshits to make this decision then you are too stupid to be a Superintendent.

ROFL

Just what I expected from you, Skip. And a perfect example of why I love this place. heh. :)

FTR, I said "I may or may not" take the advice. :p

Mr. Kotter
01-22-2007, 10:35 PM
Is this a correct assessment of the choices?

1. PhD first, then principal, then Superintendent (less money at first but achieve your goal sooner)

2. Administrative position while earning the PhD, then Superintendent (better money immediately but longer to achieve your goal)

3. die penniless in a gutter as your brood learns to survive on roasted pidgeon

Yeah. That pretty much sums it up. ;)

Mr. Kotter
01-22-2007, 10:39 PM
If you're going to get a terminal degree and are that motivated, why in the hell would you choose to stay in the public schools as an administrator instead of moving up to the university level and working your way up that ladder?
Have you seen what public school sups make these days??? :shrug:

Although, I haven't ruled out the college after the PhD option; but the money would need to be good, to make a compelling case. And since I just recently started considering the Superintendent thing....I'm new to this. :hmmm:

Especially if it's at a "private" college and the college offers tuition remission for young 'uns......:)

An assistant prof has to work their tail off to make tenure. Pay isn't all that great and all his previous teaching experience would count for very little. He'd be in competition with other assistant profs who are working 80 hours a week to make their mark in academia. With Kotter's family situation and his, uh, experience and maturity (let the reader understand), this isn't the exactly the best time to embark on that path, imo.

Yup. Kinda my thought too. :hmmm:

Bob Dole
01-22-2007, 10:41 PM
An assistant prof has to work their tail off to make tenure. Pay isn't all that great and all his previous teaching experience would count for very little. He'd be in competition with other assistant profs who are working 80 hours a week to make their mark in academia. With Kotter's family situation and his, uh, experience and maturity (let the reader understand), this isn't the exactly the best time to embark on that path, imo.

That all depends on whether you're willing to relocate. There are still fast-track opportunities out there.

There's also the CC route. Which isn't a traditional university environment, but is still better than the average public school. (Just ask anyone that got in on the JCCC or MCC gig early on.) There's still some significant growth going on in rural CCs (at least in TX and AR) and some opportunity for people with terminal degrees who want to do more than just cruise through until retirement.

Rausch
01-22-2007, 10:42 PM
If you can afford to now do it now.

You have no idea what may happen tomorrow, Carpy diesel or something...

cdcox
01-22-2007, 10:48 PM
From the grass is always greener department:

I've heard that in suburban Pittsburgh public school teachers with Kotter's level of experience make $80K.

DomerNKC
01-22-2007, 10:49 PM
Zzz zzzz zz zzzzz zz zzzz zz zzz zzzz zz z zzzzz zzzzzzzzz. Z zzz zz zzz zzzzz zz zzzzz zz zzzzzz zzz zzzz zzzz zzzzzz zzz zz zzz zz zzzz z zzz Zzzz zzz zzzzz z zzzzz. Z zzz z zzzz zz zzzzz zzzzzzz z zzz zzzzz. Zzzz zz zzzz z zzzz z zzzz zz zzz zzzzz zz zzzzz zzzzzzzz.

listopencil
01-22-2007, 10:51 PM
I'd say "Become a principal. Continue working on the PhD, and then look for a Sup job later" but I ****ed my life up pretty badly so you might just want to do the opposite of what I think.

Mr. Kotter
01-22-2007, 10:52 PM
From the grass is always greener department:

I've heard that in suburban Pittsburgh public school teachers with Kotter's level of experience make $80K.

Meh. Differences in cost of living, and state income taxes would eat up $15-20k of that..... :shrug:

Rausch
01-22-2007, 10:54 PM
but I ****ed my life up pretty badly so you might just want to do the opposite of what I think.

You too?

Woman, money, or drugs?

Or'd you just get the full-meal-deal?...

Bob Dole
01-22-2007, 10:55 PM
Zzz zzzz zz zzzzz zz zzzz zz zzz zzzz zz z zzzzz zzzzzzzzz. Z zzz zz zzz zzzzz zz zzzzz zz zzzzzz zzz zzzz zzzz zzzzzz zzz zz zzz zz zzzz z zzz Zzzz zzz zzzzz z zzzzz. Z zzz z zzzz zz zzzzz zzzzzzz z zzz zzzzz. Zzzz zz zzzz z zzzz z zzzz zz zzz zzzzz zz zzzzz zzzzzzzz.

Is that Morse Code for "sell cars"?

FAX
01-22-2007, 10:56 PM
Zzz zzzz zz zzzzz zz zzzz zz zzz zzzz zz z zzzzz zzzzzzzzz. Z zzz zz zzz zzzzz zz zzzzz zz zzzzzz zzz zzzz zzzz zzzzzz zzz zz zzz zz zzzz z zzz Zzzz zzz zzzzz z zzzzz. Z zzz z zzzz zz zzzzz zzzzzzz z zzz zzzzz. Zzzz zz zzzz z zzzz z zzzz zz zzz zzzzz zz zzzzz zzzzzzzz.

top.

FAX

Mr. Kotter
01-22-2007, 10:57 PM
Is that Morse Code for "sell cars"?

Holy shit! ROFL

I can't rep you twice in five minutes, I guess....LMAO

listopencil
01-22-2007, 10:59 PM
You too?

Woman, money, or drugs?

Or'd you just get the full-meal-deal?...



It's a long story. :banghead:

Rausch
01-22-2007, 11:00 PM
It's a long story. :banghead:

I'll have to let you buy me beer sometime and tell me all about it...

jAZ
01-22-2007, 11:01 PM
OR, do I continue doing what I love--
I don't care what comes after this statement... this is the option you MUST choose, IMO.

Best of luck to you... seriously.

Guru
01-22-2007, 11:01 PM
Sounds to me like you are leaning toward the PhD anyway. I say go for the principal job and get that PhD.

el borracho
01-22-2007, 11:02 PM
Ok, I am going to suggest the second option (Administrative position while earning the PhD, then Superintendent- better money immediately but longer to achieve your goal). You don't necessarily seem to be in a hurry to become a super and you and your family could probably use more money immediately.

Mr. Kotter
01-22-2007, 11:04 PM
Holy shit! :eek:

A Google search tells me I'm "over-qualified" for MENSA but not quite up to snuff for the "Prometheus Society"....I must be a damn good guesser! Or the MAT is a joke.....heh.

How fuggin' scary is that???? ROFL

Ok, I am going to suggest the second option (Administrative position while earning the PhD, then Superintendent- better money immediately but longer to achieve your goal). You don't necessarily seem to be in a hurry to become a super and you and your family could probably use more money immediately.

That's the one I'm leaning toward; for the reasons you suggest. The thing about becoming a Sup....I probably need at least 3-5 years as an administrator, first. :hmmm:

cdcox
01-22-2007, 11:04 PM
Meh. Differences in cost of living, and state income taxes would eat up $15-20k of that..... :shrug:

That's $107K, translated into a 12 mo job. I don't know many other jobs where a mid-career person with a BS degree and few if any performance demands can make that kind of money. PA state income tax is 4% and the cost of living in Pittsburgh isn't that high. We're not talking about NY, Boston, or DC.

listopencil
01-22-2007, 11:06 PM
I'll have to let you buy me beer sometime and tell me all about it...


Beer hell, it's going to take some Jose Cuervo. If I ever get out there I'll bring a bottle.

Phobia
01-22-2007, 11:08 PM
Holy shit! :eek:

A Google search tells me I'm "over-qualified" for MENSA but not quite up to snuff for the "Prometheus Society"....I must be a damn good guesser! Or the MAT is a joke.....heh.

How fuggin' scary is that???? ROFL


I'm overqualified for MENSA too.

Mr. Kotter
01-22-2007, 11:08 PM
That's $107K, translated into a 12 mo job. I don't know many other jobs where a mid-career person with a BS degree and few if any performance demands can make that kind of money. PA state income tax is 4% and the cost of living in Pittsburgh isn't that high. We're not talking about NY, Boston, or DC.

:eek:

Maybe I ought to check into that then.....

FWIW, I do already have a masters in secondary ed; I'll have the other by next summer. :hmmm:

Mr. Kotter
01-22-2007, 11:10 PM
I'm overqualified for MENSA too.I think Pumpkin pie, the "to die for" jambalya, and deep-fried Turkey.....get's you in, in my book anyway. ;)

Guru
01-22-2007, 11:11 PM
I'm overqualified for MENSA too.
Why did I know Phob would post a comment to that.

Rausch
01-22-2007, 11:11 PM
Beer hell, it's going to take some Jose Cuervo. If I ever get out there I'll bring a bottle.

Nein.

The little engine has almost made it up the hill and you want to put that Devil's piss in my steamroom.

Negative. Will Scotch do?...

http://www.spirituosenworld.de/produkte/scotch/details/macallan_18_new_gr.jpg

Bob Dole
01-22-2007, 11:13 PM
That's the one I'm leaning toward; for the reasons you suggest. The thing about becoming a Sup....I probably need at least 3-5 years as an administrator, first. :hmmm:

3-5 years?

So you've been playing the political side of things already?

listopencil
01-22-2007, 11:14 PM
Nein.

The little engine has almost made it up the hill and you want to put that Devil's piss in my steamroom.

Negative. Will Scotch do?...

http://www.spirituosenworld.de/produkte/scotch/details/macallan_18_new_gr.jpg




Good enough. That'll definitely do.

Mr. Kotter
01-22-2007, 11:14 PM
Nein.

The little engine has almost made it up the hill and you want to put that Devil's piss in my steamroom.

Negative. Will Scotch do?...

http://www.spirituosenworld.de/produkte/scotch/details/macallan_18_new_gr.jpg

I have 3/4 ths of a bottle of the 12 yr version of that stuff sitting in my "liquor cabinet" (the top shelf of our pantry.) If you are ever in Sioux Falls, you are welcome to it. I'll stick to White Russians. :D

Mr. Kotter
01-22-2007, 11:16 PM
3-5 years?

So you've been playing the political side of things already?

Eh. Not really. Otherwise, I'd already be a principal in my current district. I'm something of a Maverick. Imagine that..... ;)

But I'm a quick study. Smaller school districts only ask for 3-5 yrs in administration, with credentials....in these parts anyway. :shrug:

Phobia
01-22-2007, 11:16 PM
I think Pumpkin pie, the "to die for" jambalya, and deep-fried Turkey.....get's you in, in my book anyway. ;)

If you liked that jambalya, you should have tried some of my crawfish ettoufee this afternoon. I think I outdid myself there.

listopencil
01-22-2007, 11:17 PM
Come to think of it I have some on top of the fridge. I haven't gotten loaded in months. Hmmm...I may do a little drunken posting later on tonight.

Bob Dole
01-22-2007, 11:18 PM
If you liked that jambalya, you should have tried some of my crawfish ettoufee this afternoon. I think I outdid myself there.

Riiiiight. A guy in KC is making decent crawfish anything.

Which bait shop did you visit to get your mudbugs?

Mr. Kotter
01-22-2007, 11:19 PM
If you liked that jambalya, you should have tried some of my crawfish ettoufee this afternoon. I think I outdid myself there.

Send me the recipes. Now. Please? :)

DomerNKC
01-22-2007, 11:19 PM
Is that Morse Code for "sell cars"?nope, that is the brother. What was the question again? I fall asleep everytime i start reading it.

listopencil
01-22-2007, 11:20 PM
If you liked that jambalya, you should have tried some of my crawfish ettoufee this afternoon. I think I outdid myself there.


Roux or no roux? Tomato no tomato?

ChiefaRoo
01-22-2007, 11:20 PM
FYI, It's Michelle Malkin

Phobia
01-22-2007, 11:20 PM
Roux or no roux? Tomato no tomato?

Roux + tomato

Phobia
01-22-2007, 11:27 PM
Send me the recipes. Now. Please? :)

You know I don't work from a recipe. I just start with a base and add what sounds good to me (ie: what I have on hand).

These (http://generalhorticulture.tamu.edu/prof/Recipes/Jambalaya/jambalaya.html) are pretty close to what I do except I generally use sausage and shrimp and a couple bay leaves in the mix. I also cook in a pressure cooker which saves quite a bit of time and a little bit of electricity.

boogblaster
01-22-2007, 11:31 PM
Mr. K.. you have to look at the whole..advancement is a good thing..leaving the class-room is a bad thing..management means responsibilty for things you might really not like..but it will follow you home anyway...but it is for the good, jump right in because father time doesnt stop....ps..this is coming from a bottom-feeder ex-construction hand...but was happy at just watching things grow into something needed....

el borracho
01-22-2007, 11:38 PM
I'm overqualified for MENSA too.
Wow. Oprah's book club is finally paying dividends for you.

Skip Towne
01-22-2007, 11:43 PM
ROFL

Just what I expected from you, Skip. And a perfect example of why I love this place. heh. :)

FTR, I said "I may or may not" take the advice. :p
:thumb:

Logical
01-22-2007, 11:44 PM
Whatever you decide good luck Rob. Let me just say that I know your family is important to you and the commitment to both work and a PhD will detract from that. Be sure you weigh that carefully as you make your decision.

Skip Towne
01-22-2007, 11:58 PM
Seriously, man, I wish you luck. You've come a long way out of the ghetto. Most folks can't do that. You're an inspiration. I'd think you would need experience as a principal before you could get a really good Super job so I would do that while getting the Phd. Then you could apply for the really big jobs. I read where the Super of Tulsa schools makes $200,000.

Mr. Kotter
01-22-2007, 11:58 PM
Whatever you decide good luck Rob. Let me just say that I know your family is important to you and the commitment to both work and a PhD will detract from that. Be sure you weigh that carefully as you make your decision.Thanks, Jim. Coming from you, I'll weigh that carefully. Seriously. I may decide the cost is too high.

It's a tad ironic that the other person I might expect that sort of a take from, off the top of my head, is Stevie. Heh.

Seriously, man, I wish you luck. You've come a long way out of the ghetto. Most folks can't do that. You're an inspiration. I'd think you would need experience as a principal before you could get a really good Super job so I would do that while getting the Phd. Then you could apply for the really big jobs. I read where the Super of Tulsa schools makes $200,000.

Thanks, Skip. It's been quite a journey. God gave me gifts, maybe, I've only now begun to fully appreciate. Experience in admin is key to a job like Tulsa. That would be, at a minimum, 15 yrs down the road. My sights are probably on something more like......Ft. Smith, or Hot Springs, or maybe Fayetteville, Joplin, or Springfield....at least initially. Those don't pay too shaby either, I understand.

stevieray
01-23-2007, 12:03 AM
Thanks, Jim. Coming from you, I'll weigh that carefully. Seriously. I may decide the cost is too high.

It's a tad ironic that the other person I might expect that sort of a take from, off the top of my head, is Stevie. Heh.


swear on my father's grave I almost posted that earlier...:eek:
I wanted to see what others said though.

but I added how cool for you to have options..and that you'd make the right choice..

IMO, I think you'd make a great principal..because of your people skills...

Mr. Kotter
01-23-2007, 12:09 AM
swear on my father's grave I almost posted that earlier...:eek:
I wanted to see what others said though.

but I added how cool for you to have options..and that you'd make the right choice..

IMO, I think you'd make a great principal..because of your people skills...

Thanks, Stevie.

That's what really has me pumped up about this whole thing. I've always considered myself, intellectually capable....although the whole Harvard thing is really a friggin' hoot, from my perspective.....but my strength is my people and communicative skills. THAT is why I'm feeling, more and more, like this is almost a "calling" for me....

Enjoy the SB, Stevie. I'll be watchin' for you and your better half, man. :thumb:

stevieray
01-23-2007, 12:10 AM
Thanks, Stevie.

That's what really has me pumped up about this whole thing. I've always considered myself, intellectually capable....although the whole Harvard thing is really a friggin' hoot, from my perspective.....but my strength is my people and communicative skills. THAT is why I'm feeling, more and more, like this is almost a "calling" for me....

Enjoy the SB, Stevie. I'll be watchin' for you and your better half, man. :thumb:

right on man...best of luck to you... :)

DaFace
01-23-2007, 12:12 AM
Not that this will apply to you, but my dad stopped teaching to become a principal and hated it. He did it for 5 years, then went back to the classroom. His explanation was that he "loves dealing with kids - not parents." Anyway, take that for what it's worth.

Mr. Kotter
01-23-2007, 12:20 AM
Not that this will apply to you, but my dad stopped teaching to become a principal and hated it. He did it for 5 years, then went back to the classroom. His explanation was that he "loves dealing with kids - not parents." Anyway, take that for what it's worth.

THAT is the "flip" side to this whole thing.....I LOVE the classroom, and kids, generally. Administration, initially, anyway.....is discipline (parents,) meetings, and politics. Those aspects of administration, coupled with day-to-day grind and negativism.....could burn me out too. Maybe that's why I think the Superintendent track is the way to go. You rise above MOST of the tedious stuff at that point. Thanks for your take though. :hmmm:

Mr. Kotter
01-23-2007, 07:30 AM
Bump to see if the morning crew have any words of wisdom...:)

crazycoffey
01-23-2007, 07:49 AM
I don't care what comes after this statement... this is the option you MUST choose, IMO.

Best of luck to you... seriously.


I wanted to add my .02 cents, I agree with jaz, you said to continue doing what you love - teach.

it takes a special person to teach, keep doing that and if you want a phd get the doctrine in something you love. If I could I would get one in Philosophy, in case you were curious, anyway during the summer, increase you school load to get it done quicker, or start writting your book, sounds like that's something you would like too. That's how you'll get more money.

Doing something you love is worth more than doing something else for more money. I tried and it isn't working out so well. I love being a cop, and I'm a good guy, but I tried to make more money by working in the "real world" sold office products, recruited doctors for three companies, and I hated it, it was barely more money and so much more stress.

so that's my opinion and advice, with some personal experience to give my opinion validity.

good luck either way.


Oh and random comment for the vasectomy thread, had one, took in the cup, was all good. Got remarried, got reversal, took in cup, still nothing. My point, God wants more kotters and fewer coffey's.

[pre-quote=skip]the planet wants fewer of you too [/Quote]

jidar
01-23-2007, 07:59 AM
This thread is worthless without ..
er.. wait.

oldandslow
01-23-2007, 08:29 AM
I am late getting in on this but...

Kotter - screw the principal gig. Teach at a University...

You are following my life path. I taught high school for 12 years before deciding that enough was enough and went on for a Ph.D. I was 37 before I began my gig as a professor. I had my masters. I began at 34 and it took 3 years. Well worth it. I teach 2-3 classes a semester, write, and make 3-4X your salary

Several things:

1. Take the GRE if you are going humanities or Social Science. Most will require it.
2. DO NOT get a Ph.D. in Education (or Ed.D) for that matter. Get it in history, psych, geography, communication, political science, anthropology or whatever. Also stay away for English. Too many Ph.D.'s and no jobs. Math and physics are good. I teach stats and it has been my meal ticket. You can also get a Graduate Teaching Assistantship while you are going to school. Means you teach or grade, but they pay you and pay at least part (or all) your tuition.
3. 2.5 years is optimistic. It depends on your dissertation committee. You can finish the classwork in a year and a half or two years.
4. Pick the right school. If you want to stay in SD, USD is fine. If not, begin looking to NE, Iowa, MN, etc.
5. APPLY NOW for next fall. It may already be a little late.
6. Publish or Perish is real. I had written 2 books and published 17 articles before I applied for tenure. I got it, but I was worried.
7. Publish something while you are in GRAD school - it will guarantee you a job.
8. I am just a few years away from retirement now. The pension is outstanding.

Hydrae
01-23-2007, 08:57 AM
Whatever you decide good luck Rob. Let me just say that I know your family is important to you and the commitment to both work and a PhD will detract from that. Be sure you weigh that carefully as you make your decision.


I would like to second this opinion (or is it third since Stevie chimed in?). I feel that your attention and simple presence is important to your children, especially before they are teenagers. They are the most important kids in your life and deserve a father who is there and available if they need him more than they need money to buy a nicer gaming console or brand name jeans.

I do believe you will make a good decision and be successful in your life no matter which way you go.

Fairplay
01-23-2007, 09:16 AM
Theres a lot of money in Meth these days.

Mr. Kotter
01-23-2007, 09:21 AM
I am late getting in on this but...

Kotter - screw the principal gig. Teach at a University...

You are following my life path. I taught high school for 12 years before deciding that enough was enough and went on for a Ph.D. I was 37 before I began my gig as a professor. I had my masters. I began at 34 and it took 3 years. Well worth it. I teach 2-3 classes a semester, write, and make 3-4X your salary

Several things:

1. Take the GRE if you are going humanities or Social Science. Most will require it.
2. DO NOT get a Ph.D. in Education (or Ed.D) for that matter. Get it in history, psych, geography, communication, political science, anthropology or whatever. Also stay away for English. Too many Ph.D.'s and no jobs. Math and physics are good. I teach stats and it has been my meal ticket. You can also get a Graduate Teaching Assistantship while you are going to school. Means you teach or grade, but they pay you and pay at least part (or all) your tuition.
3. 2.5 years is optimistic. It depends on your dissertation committee. You can finish the classwork in a year and a half or two years.
4. Pick the right school. If you want to stay in SD, USD is fine. If not, begin looking to NE, Iowa, MN, etc.
5. APPLY NOW for next fall. It may already be a little late.
6. Publish or Perish is real. I had written 2 books and published 17 articles before I applied for tenure. I got it, but I was worried.
7. Publish something while you are in GRAD school - it will guarantee you a job.
8. I am just a few years away from retirement now. The pension is outstanding.
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I may PM you later with some questions, if I may....

Theres a lot of money in Meth these days.

Meth, eh? Hmmmmmm..... :hmmm:

oldandslow
01-23-2007, 09:54 AM
[QUOTE=Mr. Kotter]Thanks for the thoughtful response. I may PM you later with some questions, if I may....

Certainly.

Iowanian
01-23-2007, 10:06 AM
I think this is the point in life where alot of guys in your shoes drop the family, leave the job and buy a convertible. Don't forget the new moustache, the gaudy gold guido chain and leave an extra button undone.

I'm of the mind that I would Work my way up as I went, especially in your situation. Get yourself up to the Principle level, continue your education(some school dists might have assistance for continueing education).....gain some experience and then become the SuperINT.

I'd think you could work in some states and especially in smaller schools without the PHD.....but what do I know.

Mr. Kotter
01-23-2007, 10:32 AM
I think this is the point in life where alot of guys in your shoes drop the family, leave the job and buy a convertible. Don't forget the new moustache, the gaudy gold guido chain and leave an extra button undone.

I'm of the mind that I would Work my way up as I went, especially in your situation. Get yourself up to the Principle level, continue your education(some school dists might have assistance for continueing education).....gain some experience and then become the SuperINT.

I'd think you could work in some states and especially in smaller schools without the PHD.....but what do I know.
I'm past the midlife crisis thing; that was part of the meltdown a couple of years back....latent frustration and anger over what to do. Heh. So, no, so I'm past the whole convertible and Eric Estrada immitation thing. :)

I'm actually leaning the way you suggest. The only reason the PhD thing is even really in the conversation is, after next year....I should be within 2 years of getting it done. And like I said, I even surprised myself with the test score. So my thought is, why not finish it? The biggest reason I wouldn't do it, is the toll on the family. Yeah, the PhD isn't necessary if I choose that route, but it would certainly give me more options.

jspchief
01-23-2007, 10:34 AM
Not sure if it's been said since I was too lazy to read the entire thread, but I would think a PHD in administration would be required before you're going to get hired as a superintendent of any district worth a shit. I would also expect most of them to want some experience as a principal.

You might get the job as SI with some podunk district without a PHD, but you'll likely be hamstringing future possibilities.

Mr. Kotter
01-23-2007, 10:37 AM
Not sure if it's been said since I was too lazy to read the entire thread, but I would think a PHD in administration would be required before you're going to get hired as a superintendent of any district worth a shit. I would also expect most of them to want some experience as a principal.

You might get the job as SI with some podunk district without a PHD, but you'll likely be hamstringing future possibilities.

Yup. Pretty much my thought. However, pricipal for 10-15 years, and then Sup of some podunk the last 5-10 is a possibility too. Because even those podunks pay pretty well....even in these parts.

acesn8s
01-23-2007, 10:56 AM
Well, I must ask. You seem to thinking about your next step in life but what about the steps afterward? Do you want to be a piece of something bigger such as a state appointed postion? How high do you want to go?

El Jefe
01-23-2007, 11:09 AM
PhD first, it will lead to more money eventually.

jspchief
01-23-2007, 11:20 AM
Another thing to consider is "time". You may be more likely to have the time to fit getting a PHD into your schedule now, whereas taking on a job with more time requirements may make it difficult to fit it all in.

Mr. Kotter
01-23-2007, 11:46 AM
Well, I must ask. You seem to thinking about your next step in life but what about the steps afterward? Do you want to be a piece of something bigger such as a state appointed postion? How high do you want to go?
I'd probably do 5-10 years as an administrator; another 5-10 as a Superintendent (though if I could fast-track to a Sup, I'd be fine with that....) After that, I'd be into my sixties....and I'd consider continuing as a Sup, or possibly working at the state or national level in the Department of Education to finish my career. :shrug:

Another thing to consider is "time". You may be more likely to have the time to fit getting a PHD into your schedule now, whereas taking on a job with more time requirements may make it difficult to fit it all in.

That's definitely a concern with option two; and probably option one's biggest appeal.

Frankie
01-23-2007, 12:06 PM
Some of you may have noticed I haven't been around much.
And who, may I ask, are you?

acesn8s
01-23-2007, 12:34 PM
I'd probably do 5-10 years as an administrator; another 5-10 as a Superintendent (though if I could fast-track to a Sup, I'd be fine with that....) After that, I'd be into my sixties....and I'd consider continuing as a Sup, or possibly working at the state or national level in the Department of Education to finish my career. :shrug:

In a land far far away, along time ago I had a Sup as a neighbor. He is now Commisioner of Education in Missouri. He was teacher/principal for 6 years. During that time he got his master's. Then became a Sup in a small school district. Held that position for 4 years and got his PhD. He became Sup at a larger neighboring district and held that position for 19 years before being appointed to his current status.

While he was Sup, one of the high school principals went on to get his PhD. and has co-authored “Personal Learning Plans for Educators.” the president of the South Central Principals Association and the Missouri Association of Secondary School Principals as well as being the National Coordinator for the State of Missouri to the National Association of Secondary School Principals, and was also selected to serve a three-year term on the National Alliance of High Schools Board of Directors through NASSP.He has received numerous awards including Missouri Principal of the Year, Principals of Leadership, the Milken Family Foundation National Educator Award, and the Consummate Professional Award.


I have alot of respect for these men but when I look at what they have accomplished, I can't help but feel that your expectations of yourself may be a little low. These men were friends and neighbors before they were my educators. What would you tell one of your students that has set thier sites a little too low? Are you doing this for the money or for the education of others?

Mr. Kotter
01-23-2007, 12:45 PM
In a land far far away, along time ago I had a Sup as a neighbor. He is now Commisioner of Education in Missouri. He was teacher/principal for 6 years. During that time he got his master's. Then became a Sup in a small school district. Held that position for 4 years and got his PhD. He became Sup at a larger neighboring district and held that position for 19 years before being appointed to his current status.

While he was Sup, one of the high school principals went on to get his PhD. and has co-authored “Personal Learning Plans for Educators.” the president of the South Central Principals Association and the Missouri Association of Secondary School Principals as well as being the National Coordinator for the State of Missouri to the National Association of Secondary School Principals, and was also selected to serve a three-year term on the National Alliance of High Schools Board of Directors through NASSP.He has received numerous awards including Missouri Principal of the Year, Principals of Leadership, the Milken Family Foundation National Educator Award, and the Consummate Professional Award.


I have alot of respect for these men but when I look at what they have accomplished, I can't help but feel that your expectations of yourself may be a little low. These men were friends and neighbors before they were my educators. What would you tell one of your students that has set thier sites a little too low? Are you doing this for the money or for the education of others?
That's an interesting and eye-opening take. Thanks.

Part of it may be where I came from....as Skip alluded to earlier. I grew up in a HUD development to a family on welfare, and became the first member of my extended family to graduate from HS, let alone college. So getting into education and earning one masters degree, let alone two....is something I'm not sure I'd have imagined for myself. And surely, my family....four young kids, have an impact on my decision. Both in terms of the money, but also in terms of wanting to be able to be the father they need while they are growing up. It's a difficult balancing act. If it were just me, I'd have pursued the PhD and a university teaching position 10 years ago. I have others to consider though.

Then again, even 5 years ago, I'd have never imagined pursuing the PhD, given my circumstances. I appreciate the food-for-thought you have offered. :hmmm:

acesn8s
01-23-2007, 12:54 PM
That's an interesting and eye-opening take. Thanks.

Part of it may be where I came from....as Skip alluded to earlier. I grew up in a HUD development to a family on welfare, and became the first member of my extended family to graduate from HS, let alone college. So getting into education and earning one masters degree, let alone two....is something I'm not sure I'd have imagined for myself. And surely, my family....four young kids, have an impact on my decision. Both in terms of the money, but also in terms of wanting to be able to be the father they need while they are growing up. It's a difficult balancing act. If it were just me, I'd have pursued the PhD and a university teaching position 10 years ago. I have others to consider though.

Then again, even 5 years ago, I'd have never imagined pursuing the PhD, given my circumstances. I appreciate the food-for-thought you have offered. :hmmm:
I went to school with both of these men's children. These men were excellent fathers, perhaps even better than my own. I have no doubt that you will balance everything out to achieve more than what you posted. Good luck and best wishes!!

Mr. Kotter
01-23-2007, 03:00 PM
I went to school with both of these men's children. These men were excellent fathers, perhaps even better than my own. I have no doubt that you will balance everything out to achieve more than what you posted. Good luck and best wishes!!

Well, thank you.