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View Full Version : Andre Tippett: Another Lineback Deserving of the HOF


Amnorix
02-02-2007, 06:45 AM
I know that, with good cause, everyone on here is very supportive of DT for the HOF. I support that cause also.

But since he's also in the final 17, and is perhaps a bit of an underdog, I wanted to take a second to hype the Patriots own entry -- the much underappreciated Andre Tippett, who was an absolutely fantastic football player and also well deserving of the HOF.

An article in today's Reiss' Pieces (a blog of a Boston Globe reporter) says alot about him:


Tippett in focus

MIAMI -- Former Patriots linebacker Andre Tippett can count on at least one Hall of Fame vote, and it's an influental one.

"I think good players on bad teams are disciminated against in Pro Bowls, in all sorts of recognition, All-Pro teams, and I just think this is a case of a guy who was a great player on mostly bad teams and had very little help on defense," said Sports Illustrated's Peter King, a Hall of Famer voter and well respected voice among pro football writers.

"The reason why I like him so much as a candidate is that here is a guy who played strongside linebacker for the majority of his career, and the big sack guys, the big playmakers on defense, always have played weakside. Lawrence Taylor played weakside. Derrick Thomas played weakside. This guy not only didn't have help on the other side of the field to balance it out, but he also played over the tight end consistently in his career. He fought through that.

"When you average 10 sacks a year in any defense, it's an excellent career. When you average 10 sacks a year playing strongside linebacker on a bad defense with very little help, I think it's a Hall of Fame career. I just hope that some of the voters can get past the fact that the Patriots stunk during that era and see fit to put him in."

Hall of Fame voters are scheduled to meet Saturday to pick this year's inductees.



I'll now duck the incoming wrath...

Amnorix
02-02-2007, 06:45 AM
I should also mention that Tippett was VERY stout against the run, and was in my mind nearly as good as Lawrence Taylor, who got a ton more hype because he played for great teams in New York.

Mile High Mania
02-02-2007, 06:52 AM
Yeah, but did Bill make him play with concussions...

Amnorix
02-02-2007, 06:53 AM
Last, but not least, a few relevant facts (from Wikipedia):


Tippett is a member of the NFL’s 1980s all-decade team. The five other linebackers on the team are already in the Hall of Fame (Lawrence Taylor, Mike Singletary, Harry Carson, Ted Hendricks and Jack Lambert.)

--Tippett was selected to five Pro Bowls in his career, earning the nod in five straight seasons from 1984-88.

--From 1984-85, Tippett recorded the highest two-season sack total by a linebacker in NFL history, totaling 35.0 sacks during the two seasons. His 18.5 sacks in 1984 are the third most by any linebacker in a single season, while his 16.5 sacks in 1985 are tied for the sixth most by any linebacker in NFL history. He achieved the feat despite playing primarily on the strong side, lining up opposite of a tight end, in an era where most successful pass-rushers lined up on the weak side.

--Tippett ranked seventh on the all-time sacks list at the time of his retirement following the 1993 season.

--Tippett ranked third among linebackers on the all-time sacks list at the time of his retirement following the 1993 season.

--Over his career, Tippett recorded 100 sacks in 151 games, an average of 0.662 sacks per game. The mark currently ranks fourth in NFL history among linebackers. I wonder if any of the 3 guys ahead of him played strongside? Doubt it.

--Tippett was named the NFL’s linebacker of the year by the NFL Players Association for three straight seasons from 1985-87. He was also named to the Associated Press All-NFL First Team on two occasions (1985, 1987).

--Tippett holds the Patriots’ franchise record with 100.0 career sacks. He also owns the top three single-season sack performances in Patriots history (18.5 in 1984, 16.5 in 1985 and 12.5 in 1987).

--Tippett recovered 17 opponents’ fumbles during his career, tying him for first on the Patriots’ all-time list (Steve Nelson). He also forced 14 fumbles in his career.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andre_Tippett

Bill Parcells
02-02-2007, 06:53 AM
I should also mention that Tippett was VERY stout against the run, and was in my mind nearly as good as Lawrence Taylor, who got a ton more hype because he played for great teams in New York.
Tippet was a great player,I think he should be a HOFer..he used to pile drive Ken O'brien all the time..but..NO WAY was he in LT's league as a player..thats bullshit about the NY hype..he won games for the Giants singlehandedly on defense when they sucked..Tippet had a huge supporting cast.

Amnorix
02-02-2007, 06:53 AM
Yeah, but did Bill make him play with concussions...

No, but he made LT play high as a kite...

Amnorix
02-02-2007, 06:55 AM
Tippet was a great player,I think he should be a HOFer..he used to pile drive Ken O'brien all the time..but..NO WAY was he in LT's league as a player..thats bullshit about the NY hype..he won games for the Giants singlehandedly on defense when they sucked..Tippet had a huge supporting cast.


Whose supporting cast was better then? Tippett's or LTs?

I liked some of those players, but none were close to HOF worthy.

Very few guys get mentioned in the same breath as LT, and I don't argue that Tippett was his equal. But he was a helluva lot closer than nearly anyone else I've seen.

Bill Parcells
02-02-2007, 07:08 AM
Whose supporting cast was better then? Tippett's or LTs?

I liked some of those players, but none were close to HOF worthy.

Very few guys get mentioned in the same breath as LT, and I don't argue that Tippett was his equal. But he was a helluva lot closer than nearly anyone else I've seen.
The Giants had a lame offense from 81-86..the Patriots had a very good offense from 82-87..thats what I meant..LT won games on Defense..he was a freak that changed the game..I never saw Tippett run down sweep plays from behind..in fact..I still don't see anybody doing that.

DTLB58
02-02-2007, 07:31 AM
I don't have a problem with Andre making the HOF, just not before DT.

Talk about Tippet not getting as much attention as LT cause LT was from NY. Try getting HOF votes for a guy (DT) from the midwest.

The Kansas City Chiefs selected linebacker Derrick Thomas as the fourth player overall in the 1989 National Football League Draft. A consensus All-America and Dick Butkus Award winner at Alabama, Thomas excelled as a pass rusher who set the school record for sacks.

His pass rushing specialty continued on the professional level as he amassed 10 sacks as a rookie for the Chiefs in 1989. He also added 75 tackles that season to earn Defensive Rookie of the Year honors. Following the season, Thomas was named to the first of nine straight Pro Bowls.

The 6'3", 243-pound linebacker showcased his talent in a big way during his second NFL season. He recorded a league-leading and team record 20 sacks that included an NFL record seven sacks in a game versus the Seattle Seahawks on November 11, 1990. He also recorded a team high six forced fumbles, two fumble recoveries, 63 tackles, five pass deflections and 35 quarterback pressures. His season-long performance earned him All-Pro recognition for the first time, an honor he would receive two other times during his career.

His extraordinary pass rushing skills continued throughout his 11-season career that was tragically cut short by his death following an automobile accident shortly after the 1999 NFL regular season.

No player amassed more sacks during the decade of 1990s than the 116.5 sacks by Thomas. He finished his career with 126.5 sacks which was the fourth highest total by a linebacker in NFL history. Thomas had 10 or more sacks in a season seven times and recorded multi-sack games 27 times during his 169-game career.

In addition to his career sack total, Thomas also forced 45 fumbles, had 19 fumble recoveries, scored four touchdowns on fumble returns and added three safeties. His lone interception, which he returned for 20 yards, came during his final season in 1999.

Thomas, a member of the NFL's All-Decade Team of the 1990s, was named first-team All-AFC seven times during an eight-year stretch from 1989 through 1996.

His contribution to the Chiefs franchise was nearly immeasurable. Prior to his arrival in Kansas City, the team had made just one playoff appearance since 1971. In the 11 years that Thomas anchored the defense, the Chiefs finished first or second in the AFC West ten times, made seven playoff appearances, and won three division titles.

Chiefnj
02-02-2007, 07:43 AM
Does anyone have DT's playoff statistics?

Amnorix
02-02-2007, 07:43 AM
The Giants had a lame offense from 81-86..the Patriots had a very good offense from 82-87..thats what I meant..LT won games on Defense..he was a freak that changed the game..I never saw Tippett run down sweep plays from behind..in fact..I still don't see anybody doing that.


err...your argument doesn't make any sense. The offense of the Giants versus the offense of the Patriots somehow translated into how good a specific DEFENSIVE player was?!?

err....doesn't the other defensive players matter a little more.

Or was the Ravens defense of 2000 only great because their defense sucked so bad?! :eek:

I agree LT was a freak. Great player. No argument on that.

KCFalcon59
02-02-2007, 07:45 AM
Tippett was a hell of a player. I really enjoyed watching him play. I'd vote him into the hall.

Bill Parcells
02-02-2007, 07:47 AM
err...your argument doesn't make any sense. The offense of the Giants versus the offense of the Patriots somehow translated into how good a specific DEFENSIVE player was?!?

err....doesn't the other defensive players matter a little more.

Or was the Ravens defense of 2000 only great because their defense sucked so bad?! :eek:

I agree LT was a freak. Great player. No argument on that.
err..if you're not scoring any points,and your offense sucks..and your team sucks..and LT is winning games all on his own....err..it makes sense..the Ravens had a much better team than the Giants of the early 80's..The Giants sucked from 81-83..LT's first 3 years..by 84 he was already a legend..

Amnorix
02-02-2007, 07:48 AM
Talk about Tippet not getting as much attention as LT cause LT was from NY. Try getting HOF votes for a guy (DT) from the midwest.

Patriots have fewer players in the HOF than KC, I'd bet.

Again, I don't argue that DT doesn't belong, but Tippett has gotten the shaft for longer than DT, and given that he played strong side, and was equally terrific against the run (I think this is generally a knock on DT, but i'm not sure to be honest), I'd like Tippett enshrined.

Preferably, of course, they go in together. :thumb:

htismaqe
02-02-2007, 07:52 AM
Tippett belongs in the Hall.

jlscorpio
02-02-2007, 07:58 AM
DT and Tippett both belong. The guy in my avatar should get in before either...

RNR
02-02-2007, 08:06 AM
Tippett was a stud I will not argue with you on that. I have seen both him and DT play many times. I would lean towards DT head to head. That said DT had Neil Smith there to open up alot of plays for him, along with a outstanding overall defense. Sacks seem to be the stat but that is flawed.

Coverage plays a large part in sacks as does pocket breakdown (a huge push from the DTs and DEs) causes OL to go to a first come first served mentality. This can allow a LB a open lane. I would be very interested to see what would the stats be had these two players switched teams. It is like the old B. Sanders vs E. Smith debate. Nobody can argue DT had a much better cast around him.

Amnorix
02-02-2007, 08:17 AM
I would love to hear a poll of a few guys like Don Shula, Shanarat and a few other coaches who were around in the AFC for both these guys' careers would have to say about their respective strengths and weaknesses.

Actually, Shanarat might've been with the Niners for most of Tippett's career, I dunno. Anyway, you get my point.

StcChief
02-02-2007, 08:49 AM
DT and Tippett should get in.

Agreed Tippett was a very good player on bad D teams.

Who is presenting these guys in 2007 Vote?

Amnorix
02-02-2007, 09:03 AM
6 guys max get in, and so if Peter King's odds are right, and everything falls the way he says, and the max number are taken, then 1 out of the group that DT and Tippett are in (along with Bob Keuchenberg) will get in.


Even money --Thurman Thomas. More than one Buffalo player from one of the greatest offenses ever deserves to be Hall-bound, and behind Jim Kelly, Thomas is the most deserving.

3:2 -- Bruce Matthews, Paul Tagliabue. No other player has made more Pro Bowls than Matthews, who had 14, and he played more games than any other position player (296) ever. His candidacy might be hurt by the previous election of Mike Munchak and Warren Moon, with voters wondering if three offensive players from a bad playoff team should be in the Hall.

Tagliabue was the gold standard for commissioners for a decade, which should make him a lock. But some voters will argue the NFL was going to be the power league it is today with anyone's guidance, and some voters don't like the perceived steps back the media took under him. That could hurt his chances.

2:1 -- Art Monk, Michael Irvin. Monk and Irvin could cancel each other out, though both deserve to make it. There's going to be some sentiment in the room along the lines of "Geez, could we please get Monk in and end this annual melodrama with him?'' Troy Aikman and Jimmy Johnson are really trying to help Irvin's candidacy with some gentle reminders to voters about how hugely important Irvin was to the Cowboys' success.

3:1 -- Bob Kuechenberg, Derrick Thomas, Andre Tippett. Kuechenberg may have been the best Dolphins lineman of the seventies, which should get him in one of these years ... Will the panel see Thomas as one of the best five pass-rushers of all time or as a one-dimensional player who never played the run well? ... Tippett is my boutique pick. I would love to see him make it. He's a guy who averaged 10 sacks a year as a strongside linebacker (most sackers played the weak side) with very little defensive help on a bad New England team.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/peter_king/02/01/playoffs/index.html

RNR
02-02-2007, 09:48 AM
T.Thomas should make it, Monk should but would not be shocked if he is passed up again. I don't see how Matthews is not in. Boob will make it I am sure :rolleyes: Screw Irvin, as far as the two picks in this thread it is hard to say as crazy as it sounds I think Hunt passing will help D.T. Which makes one wonder if they will send two LBs. Kuechenberg was a great player but not one that screams outrage if it doesn't make it. Ray Guy will never make it but should. Nobody else listed jumps out at me. To steal a line from Unforgiven..."Deserve ain't got nothin to do with it"

vailpass
02-02-2007, 10:06 AM
Tippet was one of Hayden Fry's finest. Go Tippet, Go Hawks.