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oldandslow
02-02-2007, 08:10 AM
...well, maybe, not so much.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/02/02...iscarriage.ap/

Officers suspended in case of woman who miscarried
POSTED: 0857 GMT (1657 HKT), February 2, 2007
Story Highlights• Police released video of woman pleading with officers during her 2006 arrest
• Sofia Salva said she was pregnant, bleeding and needed to go to a hospital
• Salva was held overnight on traffic violations, outstanding city warrants
• Woman, 32, suing two officers and the police department


KANSAS CITY, Missouri (AP) -- Two police officers were suspended indefinitely with pay Thursday as an investigation continued into their arrest of a pregnant woman who had a miscarriage a day after she was thrown in jail.

The suspensions came two days after police released a videotape showing Sofia Salva telling officers during her arrest last year that she was three months pregnant, bleeding and needed to go to a hospital.

The tape shows officers ignoring her pleas. After the ninth request, the tape shows, a female officer asked: "How is that my problem?" (Watch police arrest Salva )

The officers' behavior is "inconsistent with the values and policies of this department and inconsistent with the training they received in the police academy," Chief James Corwin said at a news conference Thursday.

Salva, 32, has sued officers Melody Spencer and Kevin Schnell and the police department for wrongful death and personal injuries. Salva is seeking actual damages exceeding $25,000 and punitive damages.

She was arrested February 5 and held overnight on traffic violations and outstanding city warrants. After being released the next morning, she delivered a premature baby boy who died immediately after birth, according to the lawsuit filed Friday in Jackson County Circuit Court.

Corwin said he felt the incident was serious enough to suspend the officers even though an internal investigation is not complete.

"I ask for patience from the community as we investigate this incident," Corwin said. "I regret that this incident has reflected negatively on the members of this department, the vast majority of whom do their job in an exemplary fashion every day."

Corwin read from a written statement and declined further comment, citing the lawsuit.

Salva's attorney, Andrew Protzman, could not be reached for comment Thursday.

On Wednesday, he said, "It's tragic, it's disappointing, it's frustrating, it's sickening at times."

"This is a lady who was in severe medical distress and clearly needed emergency medical attention and medical treatment."

The videotape was released to the media after The Kansas City Star requested it under Missouri's open records law.

The officers stopped Salva after they saw her placing a fake temporary tag on the back window of her car.

'I want to go to the hospital'
The tape shows Salva telling the officers she is having a miscarriage and is bleeding.

On the tape, an officer identified as Schnell walks away from the car and tells his partner: "She just gave me a line of excuses. She said she's bleeding. She said you can check her."

Salva said: "I'm three months pregnant and I'm bleeding."

The officer identified as Spencer replied: "OK. Why are you driving to the store and then putting a fake temporary tag in your car?"

"I took it because I want to go to the hospital," Salva said.

The officers made Salva sit on the curb while they searched her car, purse and grocery bags.

Salva again told the officers she was bleeding and needed to go to a hospital.

"Well," Spencer said, "that will be something you can take care of when we get done with you."

The officers handcuffed Salva after learning she had outstanding warrants for mistreatment of children, trespassing and several traffic violations.

She again told Schnell she was bleeding.

"I don't doubt that you're possibly bleeding, but you got a lot more problems with us," Schnell said.

No tapes were available of Salva's time in the jail, but she contends in the lawsuit that her continued pleas for help were ignored. The department said videotapes from that period had been recycled before it became aware of Salva's claims.

boogblaster
02-02-2007, 08:13 AM
Maybe its just me, but Ive got little respect for todays modern peace-keepers....

Brock
02-02-2007, 08:15 AM
Maybe its just me, but Ive got little respect for todays modern peace-keepers....

Nope you're not alone.

Simplex3
02-02-2007, 08:18 AM
1: You've got a medical emergency? Bitch, I'm WORSE THAN DEATH! I'm a KCMO COP!

2: Someone with outstanding warrants for child abuse and she's having another kid. Isn't life just grand?

stumppy
02-02-2007, 09:12 AM
This was on the news the other day. They showed the recording from the cops camera.

Doesn't suprise me a bit. Assholes like those two cops are more the norm than the exception. IMO

crazycoffey
02-02-2007, 09:31 AM
1: You've got a medical emergency? Bitch, I'm WORSE THAN DEATH! I'm a KCMO COP!

2: Someone with outstanding warrants for child abuse and she's having another kid. Isn't life just grand?



exactly, very unfortunate event, the cops DID MAKE a mistake, not a question in my mind, but I have to lean back on the old philosophy, don't f**k up and beat you kid, break the law again by not going to court over it, keep your car sh*t up to date and then the cops don't have a reason to stop you, find an outstanding warrant for your arrest, and this doesn't happen.


AGAIN, the cops made a mistake;
I bet they thought she was faking to gain an advantage in the situation, I can see that, but when you're wrong then look what can happen.

Braincase
02-02-2007, 09:39 AM
Usually the folks with questionable credentials (like her) will just call an ambulance and let the taxpayers pick up the tab. Now the taxpayers will pick up an even bigger tab.

Taco John
02-02-2007, 09:41 AM
This woman created her own problems... Many women would have gotten the escort, even from these two officers. The officers definitely acted out of bounds, but given the woman's history, it's clear to see that it's a situation that she attracted.

CoMoChief
02-02-2007, 09:45 AM
The thing about it is, is that she waited to tell them that she had this problem until she knew that she was gonna be in their custody, therefore they probably thought she was trying to get out of going to jail because anyone would rather spend the night in a hospital than a jail cell. More than likely she wasn't heading to the hospital at the time.

crazycoffey
02-02-2007, 09:50 AM
I am glad to see a few responses from people with open minds about the situation, other than the first two, "Ive got little respect for todays modern peace-keepers".

I try to have respect for opinions, but blanket statements like this about an issue I take personally, irritates me.

I have great respect for today's peace keepers, both overseas and here at home.

jynni
02-02-2007, 09:52 AM
This was on the news the other day. They showed the recording from the cops camera.

Doesn't suprise me a bit. Assholes like those two cops are more the norm than the exception. IMO
I really struggle with my opinion of cops because I have yet to encounter one where the above wasn't true. This incident isn't helping my opinion any.

I'm sure there are good cops out there by my guess is that they are in the minority - I'd say maybe 15-20%.

I've personally known several KC cops and they were some of the most racist pricks I've known. Completely of the "respect my authoritah" variety. I actually know one person who quit the KC department because he was so disgusted by the attitudes displayed by his co-workers.

Maybe KC is just bad...

StcChief
02-02-2007, 09:54 AM
I have absolutely no respect for todays police officers.

I do not trust them as far as I can throw them.

acesn8s
02-02-2007, 10:01 AM
I am glad to see a few responses from people with open minds about the situation, other than the first two, "Ive got little respect for todays modern peace-keepers".

I try to have respect for opinions, but blanket statements like this about an issue I take personally, irritates me.

I have great respect for today's peace keepers, both overseas and here at home.
You had better respect the police these days. If you don't, you or your kids may die. I'm starting to think KCPD officers are former LAPD. :mad:

At least they are on leave WITH pay. :banghead: :cuss: :cuss:

vailpass
02-02-2007, 10:02 AM
I have absolutely no respect for todays police officers.

I do not trust them as far as I can throw them.

As with any other situation, it is unfair to judge an entire group of people by the acts of a few individuals IMHO.

Today's peace officers have to deal with a population brought up with zero respect for the law, an inner city blight of ignorant ghetto thugs whose entire code is based on remorseless violence that makes them little more than animals, and a whole slew of other problems that come with a population of 300 million.
The vast majority of peace officers put their life on the line for us every day in order to keep our streets safe. I have 3 little boys and we teach them that police are our friends and we have no problem with them so long as we obey the law.

I feel like I needed to say this in response to your statement; I'm not trying to argue with you just giving my point of view.

acesn8s
02-02-2007, 10:04 AM
As with any other situation, it is unfair to judge an entire group of people by the acts of a few individuals IMHO.

Today's peace officers have to deal with a population brought up with zero respect for the law, an inner city blight of ignorant ghetto thugs whose entire code is based on remorseless violence that makes them little more than animals, and a whole slew of other problems that come with a population of 300 million.
The vast majority of peace officers put their life on the line for us every day in order to keep our streets safe. I have 3 little boys and we teach them that police are our friends and we have no problem with them so long as we obey the law.

I feel like I needed to say this in response to your statement; I'm not trying to argue with you just giving my point of view.
Things like this is the reason people don't have respect for the police. Remember, respect is earned not granted.

Demonpenz
02-02-2007, 10:05 AM
Thank an officer today

acesn8s
02-02-2007, 10:06 AM
Thank an officer today or pay for it tomorrow
Fixed

ChiTown
02-02-2007, 10:11 AM
Maybe its just me, but Ive got little respect for todays modern peace-keepers....

Yeah, because this stuff never happened in the glorious yesteryears of peace-keeping...

:rolleyes:

GMAFB

Just like everything else, people tend to jump on the whole over what a few idiots do.

KChiefer
02-02-2007, 10:12 AM
I do not trust them as far as I can throw them.

Don't you mean, "I do not trust them as far as they can throw me." :thumb:


This woman is clearly a real piece of work. Why would she need a temp tag to go to the hospital after shopping? Did she start bleeding after shopping or after she was stopped?


I understand the cops felt she was making excuses, however they clearly ignored protocol and their "you're a POS" attitude is evident in the remarks they made toward her. It's baffling that these two can still be paid when what they did themselves is criminal.


Remember to thank these two if they stop you in the future. :p

Pitt Gorilla
02-02-2007, 10:12 AM
This woman created her own problems... Many women would have gotten the escort, even from these two officers. The officers definitely acted out of bounds, but given the woman's history, it's clear to see that it's a situation that she attracted.I don't see how her history has any bearing on taking care of the kid. If she was faking it, they would have know pretty quickly once they got to the hospital.

Fish
02-02-2007, 10:14 AM
I think everyone involved got the proper kick in the face from karma in this situation....

vailpass
02-02-2007, 10:16 AM
Things like this is the reason people don't have respect for the police. Remember, respect is earned not granted.

ROFL So the actions of 100,000 good cops who walk the line for us each and every day are cancelled out by a few bad apples?
You need a lesson on respect and it could start by curbing that girlfriend of yours from logging on to your football site.

I love how people like you claim no respect for the law but the minute someone breaks in to your house you call them PDQ expecting them to step between you and a bullet.

Cochise
02-02-2007, 10:17 AM
I heard someone say that the KCPD didn't have to release this video until their internal investigation was complete, but they went ahead and did it because they didnt want people to feel they were hiding behind it.

It would suck to be one of the good ones, and have to put up with this kind of thing trashing your good name all the time.


But anyway, yeah, when I deal with a cop I usually end up walking away angry... probably because I was just breaking the law.

crazycoffey
02-02-2007, 10:18 AM
I have absolutely no respect for todays police officers.

I do not trust them as far as I can throw them.


wow, sounds like a person who breaks the law on a regular basis.

no respect is a harsh stance when there are many you have no interaction with, and are not represented in the media.

ChiTown
02-02-2007, 10:20 AM
ROFL So the actions of 100,000 good cops who walk the line for us each and every day are cancelled out by a few bad apples?
You need a lesson on respect and it could start by curbing that girlfriend of yours from logging on to your football site.

I love how people like you claim no respect for the law but the minute someone breaks in to your house you call them PDQ expecting them to step between you and a bullet.

Bing-o, VP.

:clap:

crazycoffey
02-02-2007, 10:28 AM
I really struggle with my opinion of cops because I have yet to encounter one where the above wasn't true. This incident isn't helping my opinion any.

I'm sure there are good cops out there by my guess is that they are in the minority - I'd say maybe 15-20%.

I've personally known several KC cops and they were some of the most racist pricks I've known. Completely of the "respect my authoritah" variety. I actually know one person who quit the KC department because he was so disgusted by the attitudes displayed by his co-workers.

Maybe KC is just bad...


I'm glad to read you admit it was "your guess".
From every news media outlet that you have ever read or seen something good and/or something bad associated to the police, add it all up to your "personal interaction" and you still haven't been introduced with 10-15% of the police population.

There are many more good than bad, I've been associated with a greater population of the badge wearing community to pull my statistics from.

Again so I'm not mis-read, I don't agree with what they did in this situation, but the comment "karma gave the appropriate response to all involved" sounds about right to me.
Karma or God or shiva or braman or allah or yahwah or Believer wanted to save one more soul from a life of torment and abuse, and exposed two cops that should have known better and needed to be put back in thier place.

Reerun_KC
02-02-2007, 10:30 AM
ROFL So the actions of 100,000 good cops who walk the line for us each and every day are cancelled out by a few bad apples?
You need a lesson on respect and it could start by curbing that girlfriend of yours from logging on to your football site.

I love how people like you claim no respect for the law but the minute someone breaks in to your house you call them PDQ expecting them to step between you and a bullet.


100,000 might be a stretch, lets bump that down to 1,000. That sounds a little more like it.

I was pulled over in Edmond Ok, Nov 06 for turning left on a green light. Took it to court, trial and won. Caught the cop in a bold face lie, cross-examinded him, He started stuttering, Then changed his story right there in front of the Judge.

It was so sweet to say, "No further questions your honor" while cutting him off mid sentence. The look on his face was priceless.

Judge ripped him for wasting the courts time with false tickets.

Now my family and I have to make sure we are on the straight and narrow with traffic rules... I dont want this piece of crap stalking us or harassing my family.

I have zero trust in law enforcement. 90% of them are complete joke and a disgrace to society.

Reerun_KC
02-02-2007, 10:32 AM
What I stated above is JMO, we all have them.

Redrum_69
02-02-2007, 10:32 AM
Now my family and I have to make sure we are on the straight and narrow with traffic rules... I dont want this piece of crap stalking us or harassing my family.




Did he look like Ray Liotta?

Reerun_KC
02-02-2007, 10:35 AM
Did he look like Ray Liotta?


Kind of but without the hair.....

That movie "unlawful entry" was pretty good. Madeleine Stowe was stunning in that movie....

vailpass
02-02-2007, 10:36 AM
100,000 might be a stretch, lets bump that down to 1,000. That sounds a little more like it.

I was pulled over in Edmond Ok, Nov 06 for turning left on a green light. Took it to court, trial and won. Caught the cop in a bold face lie, cross-examinded him, He started stuttering, Then changed his story right there in front of the Judge.

It was so sweet to say, "No further questions your honor" while cutting him off mid sentence. The look on his face was priceless.

Judge ripped him for wasting the courts time with false tickets.

Now my family and I have to make sure we are on the straight and narrow with traffic rules... I dont want this piece of crap stalking us or harassing my family.

I have zero trust in law enforcement. 90% of them are complete joke and a disgrace to society.

1 dumb cop represents 90% of the police force?
Statistics aren't your strong suit huh?

el borracho
02-02-2007, 10:36 AM
Pretty much everyone in the story sucks. Yes, the police should have taken the woman to the hospital but, I have to ask, what could have been done there to save the baby. At three months is there any chance that the miscarriage could have been stopped or that the baby could have been delivered? It seems unlikely to me, although I admit I don't know much about it.

el borracho
02-02-2007, 10:37 AM
Oh, and why is it that the people who have the most babies are the people who shouldn't have any?

crazycoffey
02-02-2007, 10:38 AM
I have zero trust in law enforcement. 90% of them are complete joke and a disgrace to society.


Sorry to hear this, man. Hope this doesn't hurt my chances to hang out some time in OKC.

No question there are D*ckheads that abuse their posts, (like here) but trust me in many departments that I have trained with, associated with, rode with, or worked with. (in Texas, OK, MO, KS) the percentage of them are in the 10% of that said department. Even the other Good cops give them a hard time.
I think this may add to thier inferiority complex, the cop you are talking about probably got made fun of when he was young, and now he gets made fun of by his fellow officers and even the judge at the court. He writes you another ticket and says he remembers you, call a complaint to his city counsel, they will bury him.

The reason the perception is bad is because the good cops are looking for real criminals, traffic enforcement is a secondary responsibility for many officers (some are assigned only traffic enforcement) and a way to pass some time until a call comes for something else.

acesn8s
02-02-2007, 10:38 AM
ROFL So the actions of 100,000 good cops who walk the line for us each and every day are cancelled out by a few bad apples?
You need a lesson on respect and it could start by curbing that girlfriend of yours from logging on to your football site.

I love how people like you claim no respect for the law but the minute someone breaks in to your house you call them PDQ expecting them to step between you and a bullet.
I'm just saying that the police need to work on thier PR a little bit.

ChiTown
02-02-2007, 10:39 AM
100,000 might be a stretch, lets bump that down to 1,000. That sounds a little more like it.

I was pulled over in Edmond Ok, Nov 06 for turning left on a green light. Took it to court, trial and won. Caught the cop in a bold face lie, cross-examinded him, He started stuttering, Then changed his story right there in front of the Judge.

It was so sweet to say, "No further questions your honor" while cutting him off mid sentence. The look on his face was priceless.

Judge ripped him for wasting the courts time with false tickets.

Now my family and I have to make sure we are on the straight and narrow with traffic rules... I dont want this piece of crap stalking us or harassing my family.

I have zero trust in law enforcement. 90% of them are complete joke and a disgrace to society.

LOL.

"My one experience was bad, therefore 90% of all cops are bad"

Please tell me you are not a math major, because that 90% doesn't seem very scientific?

Some of you folks are an absolute joke.

Reerun_KC
02-02-2007, 10:40 AM
1 dumb cop represents 90% of the police force?
Statistics aren't your strong suit huh?


I said that was my own opinion.... We all have them, I never backed it up with stastical facts... Just stating my opinion.

I am sure there are decent law biding cops out there, I feel they are few and far between, but they are out there.


Hell for the money they make you expect them to be honest? No way the can be.

Redrum_69
02-02-2007, 10:41 AM
I'm just saying that the police need to work on thier PR a little bit.



They need to work on their aim too....

Reerun_KC
02-02-2007, 10:41 AM
LOL.

"My one experience was bad, therefore 90% of all cops are bad"

Please tell me you are not a math major, because that 90% doesn't seem very scientific?

Some of you folks are an absolute joke.


No I didnt major in math, aviation to be specific...

If you read my second post, I said it was my own opinion.... You have your opinion and you think all cops are good. So whats the difference?

It was just an opinion...

Your a moron for not reading futher...

Redrum_69
02-02-2007, 10:43 AM
100,000 might be a stretch, lets bump that down to 1,000. That sounds a little more like it.


You think there are only 1000 cops in all the 50 states?



you are quickly moving up the Hootie ranks..

Redrum_69
02-02-2007, 10:44 AM
Your a moron for not reading futher...


Kettle....black...etc etc

ChiTown
02-02-2007, 10:44 AM
No I didnt major in math, aviation to be specific...

If you read my second post, I said it was my own opinion.... You have your opinion and you think all cops are good. So whats the difference?

It was just an opinion...

Your a moron for not reading futher...

You over-exaggerate and I'm the moron? Gotcha.

Stick to aviation facts........

Reerun_KC
02-02-2007, 10:45 AM
You think there are only 1000 cops in all the 50 states?



you are quickly moving up the Hootie ranks..


Where did I say there were only 1000 cops in all 50 states?


He was saying out of a 100,000 honest ones.....


I said you might want to take the 100,000 honest down to 1,000 honest ones.

Hootie ranks? I havent sucked anyone off, nor will I.....

Reerun_KC
02-02-2007, 10:47 AM
You over-exaggerate and I'm the moron? Gotcha.

Stick to aviation facts........


Everyone can over-exaggerate their own opinion, what difference does it make?


I dont trust them and you do... I have no problem with you or that fact....

so it is a moot point...

Extra Point
02-02-2007, 10:53 AM
That was an unfortunate example of due process. Everybody lost. Given her violations, they felt compelled to bring her in: "The officers handcuffed Salva after learning she had outstanding warrants for **mistreatment of children**, trespassing and several traffic violations." Seems evident that they thought she was lying about the potential miscarriage.

The lady lost her baby, and the KC police lose some public dignity. Sad situation.

Cops are totally underpaid.

vailpass
02-02-2007, 10:53 AM
I'm just saying that the police need to work on thier PR a little bit.

Fair enough. Stories like this one sure don't help their cause.

ChiTown
02-02-2007, 10:53 AM
Everyone can over-exaggerate their own opinion, what difference does it make?


I dont trust them and you do... I have no problem with you or that fact....

so it is a moot point...

It's personal to me, that's my problem.

I have several family members who are in law enforcement in KC. When I see folks, like yourself, taking a cheap shot at law enforcement officers as a whole, without thinking that your incident might be in the minority, it pisses me off.

To exaggerate the facts to prove your point doesn't justify your opinion. It just makes you a idiot.

Redrum_69
02-02-2007, 10:54 AM
I havent sucked anyone off, nor will I.....



Your mom is like an airplane....when you pay for your time it doesnt always mean you'll get to ride her, if you spend alot of money you'll get to ride in comfort, she'll check your bag before you get, and if you yawn she'll be popping more than your eardrums.

vailpass
02-02-2007, 10:55 AM
No I didnt major in math, aviation to be specific...

If you read my second post, I said it was my own opinion.... You have your opinion and you think all cops are good. So whats the difference?

It was just an opinion...

Your a moron for not reading futher...

Point taken. And for your information I'm not a moron for not reading "futher" (isn't irony great?); I was a moron way before that thank you very much. :p

crazycoffey
02-02-2007, 10:55 AM
I disagreed with reerun too, but keep it somewhat respectable, I mean - "Hootie ranks" I don't think he deserves that much of a smack.

acesn8s
02-02-2007, 10:58 AM
That was an unfortunate example of due process. Everybody lost. Given her violations, they felt compelled to bring her in: "The officers handcuffed Salva after learning she had outstanding warrants for **mistreatment of children**, trespassing and several traffic violations." Seems evident that they thought she was lying about the potential miscarriage.

The lady lost her baby, and the KC police lose some public dignity. Sad situation.

Cops are totally underpaid.
What does pay have to do with doing the right thing?

Redrum_69
02-02-2007, 11:00 AM
I disagreed with reerun too, but keep it somewhat respectable, I mean - "Hootie ranks" I don't think he deserves that much of a smack.


YOur right...Hootie... I think youve been replaced...






...


on second thought...reerun and hootie are both tied...twins...brothers if you will...tards on the loose...

crazycoffey
02-02-2007, 11:03 AM
What does pay have to do with doing the right thing?


I took it to mean that they aren't paid enough to deal with the underbelly of society. Thier judgement call was correct in 90% of the cases they deal with, go to arrest someone and they will say anything, and I mean anything, I've been offered money, sex, name dropped (you can't arrest me I know the mayor), or even, I have children at home all alone. ETC ETC.

they were wrong this time, only because she was really having a problem, one she brought up after they said she was being arrested. Now they will always have this mark on thier record, probably face civil suit and lose much or all of their savings, yes it is true, they aren't paid enough.

vailpass
02-02-2007, 11:03 AM
Your mom is like an airplane....when you pay for your time it doesnt always mean you'll get to ride her, if you spend alot of money you'll get to ride in comfort, she'll check your bag before you get, and if you yawn she'll be popping more than your eardrums.
LMAO

acesn8s
02-02-2007, 11:09 AM
I took it to mean that they aren't paid enough to deal with the underbelly of society. Thier judgement call was correct in 90% of the cases they deal with, go to arrest someone and they will say anything, and I mean anything, I've been offered money, sex, name dropped (you can't arrest me I know the mayor), or even, I have children at home all alone. ETC ETC.

they were wrong this time, only because she was really having a problem, one she brought up after they said she was being arrested. Now they will always have this mark on thier record, probably face civil suit and lose much or all of their savings, yes it is true, they aren't paid enough.
Say that these officers were NOT part of the police force but they still kept a woman from seeing medical personel and the results were the same as this woman. What would the legal ramafications be? And what do think it will be for these police officers?

Redrum_69
02-02-2007, 11:17 AM
Say that these officers were NOT part of the police force but they still kept a woman from seeing medical personel and the results were the same as this woman. What would the legal ramafications be? And what do think it will be for these police officers?



I'll take "Changing the subject" for $1000, Alex!

boogblaster
02-02-2007, 11:19 AM
Still sticking to my opinion of peace-officers..I live 20 plus minutes from any help from a police force.. If my dogs don't get you my guns will..And yes there is good-cops out there.. but as a whole most just put in their time and draw a check....

Cochise
02-02-2007, 11:27 AM
It's personal to me, that's my problem.

I have several family members who are in law enforcement in KC. When I see folks, like yourself, taking a cheap shot at law enforcement officers as a whole, without thinking that your incident might be in the minority, it pisses me off.

To exaggerate the facts to prove your point doesn't justify your opinion. It just makes you a idiot.

No kidding. I think that was the dumbest line of commentary ever posted on the Planet.

Reerun_KC
02-02-2007, 11:28 AM
It's personal to me, that's my problem.

I have several family members who are in law enforcement in KC. When I see folks, like yourself, taking a cheap shot at law enforcement officers as a whole, without thinking that your incident might be in the minority, it pisses me off.

To exaggerate the facts to prove your point doesn't justify your opinion. It just makes you a idiot.


That was all you had to say in the first place. I appologize for offending you and your family.

This is noted and I will keep my opinions about law enforcement to myself.

BIG_DADDY
02-02-2007, 11:29 AM
That's some pretty hard core punishment, suspension with pay. Somebody tell me where I can sign up for that.

Reerun_KC
02-02-2007, 11:29 AM
I disagreed with reerun too, but keep it somewhat respectable, I mean - "Hootie ranks" I don't think he deserves that much of a smack.


No way am I on the Ranks of Hootie....

Reerun_KC
02-02-2007, 11:34 AM
No kidding. I think that was the dumbest line of commentary ever posted on the Planet.


Not even close!

Besides, with the media ready to pounce and lawyers waiting in the wings. There will be enough bad PR on the news, I wont have to express my opinion ever agian...


I appologized to the guy, I dont mind trash talking, being picked on or giving it all back, but when it starts hitting close to home, then it is time to back off.

Chitown stated he has family in law enforcement. I dont. So for me to critize that was out of line and unjustified regardless of what my opinions are.

StcChief
02-02-2007, 11:41 AM
wow, sounds like a person who breaks the law on a regular basis.

no respect is a harsh stance when there are many you have no interaction with, and are not represented in the media.

Yeah, I'm a regular criminal. always breaking the law :rolleyes:

sorry but a few bad experiences by friends, some very bogus traffic stops.

Statements by local ones "I'm getting me a DWI tonite without a doubt"

quota for those is now a BUDGETed item in some local communities.

Reerun_KC
02-02-2007, 11:43 AM
Your mom is like an airplane....when you pay for your time it doesnt always mean you'll get to ride her, if you spend alot of money you'll get to ride in comfort, she'll check your bag before you get, and if you yawn she'll be popping more than your eardrums.


Awesome, and now I have finally joined the ranks of the many great planeteer's!


That was beautiful Redrum! Rep to you!

crazycoffey
02-02-2007, 11:46 AM
Say that these officers were NOT part of the police force but they still kept a woman from seeing medical personel and the results were the same as this woman. What would the legal ramafications be? And what do think it will be for these police officers?

Apples to oranges buddy, if a person holds you for any reason against your will, than they are committing a crime.

It is not close to this scenerio where someone is commissioned with authority to enforce criminal law. The officers were doing that. they didn't believe she was having a emergency and they were wrong, but they were justified to hold her for the warrant, where the average joe would be wrong.

Frazod
02-02-2007, 11:48 AM
Some random thoughts:

1. The "victim" in all this sounds like a complete piece of shit. Perhaps her bringing one less neglected and abused child into the world isn't such a bad thing.

2. If she really was bleeding, seriously, how could that be hard to miss? Unless she was wearing rubber pants, it WOULD MAKE A STAIN. I can't imagine the cops would have been so flippant with her had that been the case.

3. Were the arresting officers the same ones who kept her locked up all night? I'm thinking no. This woman had ample opportunity to state her case to other officers. If she was continuing to bleed, are we really supposed to believe that there wasn't one single cop in the station that interracted with her that didn't see that she needed medical attention? I call bullshit on that one.

4. If this is such a shit-hot wrongful death lawsuit, why is the lawyer only suing for $25,000 instead of $25,000,000?

5. Seems possible that she might have miscarried the next morning regardless of whether or not she had been in jail. What was her health like? Was she taking care of herself or the baby? Had she actually been heading to the hospital, or was her plea to go to the hospital merely a misdirection ploy to stop the cops from running her information and realizing that she was a criminal piece of crap who needed to go to jail? I wonder. And since the purpose of this jaded story is to demonize the cops, and that information wasn't included, I guess I'll never know.

6. Sounds to me like these two cops are being thrown to the PC crows over nothing. Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps this woman was indeed gushing blood that was ignored by half the KC police force. Perhaps her poor dead fetus would have grown up to be a Nobel laureate, and not a poor damaged wretch who would merely continue the cycle of abuse and despair. Yes, these things are possible.

But I'm thinking absolutely nothing of consequence happened that night, except for two bullshit-weary cops taking a dirtbag to jail.

Bill Parcells
02-02-2007, 11:49 AM
Your mom is like an airplane....when you pay for your time it doesnt always mean you'll get to ride her, if you spend alot of money you'll get to ride in comfort, she'll check your bag before you get, and if you yawn she'll be popping more than your eardrums.
Nice! LMAO

BTW..on a side note..for the first time ever..you used a retread mom joke..the one about ''Hooties Mom being like an english muffin'' was used previously in another thread(I have a good memory ;) )..I'm very disappointed in you..keep the material fresh!

crazycoffey
02-02-2007, 11:56 AM
No way am I on the Ranks of Hootie....



that's what I said, you don't rank with him. I disagree with you on this issue, but otherwise I think you're alright.

crazycoffey
02-02-2007, 11:58 AM
But I'm thinking absolutely nothing of consequence happened that night, except for two bullshit-weary cops taking a dirtbag to jail.

I hope my agreeing with you doesn't scare you off this topic. :)

Redrum_69
02-02-2007, 12:04 PM
Nice! LMAO

BTW..on a side note..for the first time ever..you used a retread mom joke..the one about ''Hooties Mom being like an english muffin'' was used previously in another thread(I have a good memory ;) )..I'm very disappointed in you..keep the material fresh!


Now dammit, you would be the one to find that.


I didnt feel like making up an original one for him...so i used an old one and moved some words around

crazycoffey
02-02-2007, 12:04 PM
Yeah, I'm a regular criminal. always breaking the law :rolleyes:

sorry but a few bad experiences by friends, some very bogus traffic stops.

Statements by local ones "I'm getting me a DWI tonite without a doubt"

quota for those is now a BUDGETed item in some local communities.


you have quotas in your area, that sucks. I always have disagreed with that too, was fortunate to spend the majority of my time in a quota free state. Boss says "go get to work, write some tickets" we would always respond with "are you trying to institute a quota? cause that would be illegal!"

Sorry if my sarcasim didn't reach you before on my last post, the statement you made about "no respect for any cops" upsets me some, because I personally know many good cops that do good respectable jobs. That was what I based my comment on.

Of course you are entitled to not respecting me, but I think I've done the best job I can, and don't deserve the blanket statement.

Reerun_KC
02-02-2007, 12:09 PM
that's what I said, you don't rank with him. I disagree with you on this issue, but otherwise I think you're alright.


Okay so I was wrong on my opinion here in this thread. Took my lumps, offered my appologies...

But no way, no way in hell am I close to the Hootsters status....

Reerun_KC
02-02-2007, 12:10 PM
Now dammit, you would be the one to find that.


I didnt feel like making up an original one for him...so i used an old one and moved some words around


hey I was honored, Rep'd ya for it...


Once you get "Redrum mom joked" you are moving up the food chain.

JonesCrusher
02-02-2007, 12:21 PM
Of course you are entitled to not respecting me, but I think I've done the best job I can, and don't deserve the blanket statement.

We live in a world full of blanket statements, we are encouraged frequently to stereotype people: Dirty cops, Crooked Judges, Raping Clergy, Liberal Hollywood, conservative midwest. You name it we are encouraged to stereotype it, except for race and religion. Then you will be stereotyped a racist.

No real point here, just a observation. Keep up the good work.

KC Kings
02-02-2007, 12:25 PM
I took it to mean that they aren't paid enough to deal with the underbelly of society. Thier judgement call was correct in 90% of the cases they deal with, go to arrest someone and they will say anything, and I mean anything, I've been offered money, sex, name dropped (you can't arrest me I know the mayor), or even, I have children at home all alone. ETC ETC.

they were wrong this time, only because she was really having a problem, one she brought up after they said she was being arrested. Now they will always have this mark on thier record, probably face civil suit and lose much or all of their savings, yes it is true, they aren't paid enough.

At least 90%.
1. She wasn't on the way to the hospital when the confronted her.
2. She didn't mention that she needed medical attention until she found out she was going to be arrested.
3. She was wearing white pants. I am no doctor, but the lady is wearing white pants and common sense would tell you that if she is bleeding out her vagina, some of the evidence would be visible. Common sense wouldn't prevail in this case, but most of the time it wouldn't. This is just a series of unfortunate events, not some kind of serious racial/neglect issue, imo.

El Jefe
02-02-2007, 12:32 PM
Wow we know that you (oldandslow) arent a police officer because its "To Protect and Serve".

crazycoffey
02-02-2007, 12:37 PM
At least 90%.
1. She wasn't on the way to the hospital when the confronted her.
2. She didn't mention that she needed medical attention until she found out she was going to be arrested.
3. She was wearing white pants. I am no doctor, but the lady is wearing white pants and common sense would tell you that if she is bleeding out her vagina, some of the evidence would be visible. Common sense wouldn't prevail in this case, but most of the time it wouldn't. This is just a series of unfortunate events, not some kind of serious racial/neglect issue, imo.


the uproar would be different if the video showed them looking at her crotch area to see if they could see blood. Still be an uproar.

El Jefe
02-02-2007, 12:41 PM
Geesh CrazyCoffee, you joined after me and you have 3k posts, man you must be on here all day or type a crap load of responses :).

Reerun_KC
02-02-2007, 12:44 PM
Geesh CrazyCoffee, you joined after me and you have 3k posts, man you must be on here all day or type a crap load of responses :).


CC is what you call a "POST WHORE" ..


But a cool cat nonetheless...

crazycoffey
02-02-2007, 12:50 PM
Geesh CrazyCoffee, you joined after me and you have 3k posts, man you must be on here all day or type a crap load of responses :).



I am trying to make an honest attempt to slow down..... ........ really!


the quick story is just moved to MO for wife's job, was a cop in TX for 5 years (5 years active MP before that). Just got my MO peace officer certificate and looking for real employment. Job I have now is at a desk, putting out fires when they pop up, boring, stay logged on all day and get in on conversations.

This place is addicting and a great way to stay in touch with the criminal element and keep my skills fresh.....:)

Bill Parcells
02-02-2007, 01:10 PM
CC is what you call a "POST WHORE" ..


But a cool cat nonetheless...
He's been very entertaining..who gives a shit how many posts he's got..as long as he stopped making a zillion threads and stopped posting pics of vagina's(which he did)...he can post all he wants..it's the Hunt forum rules! :D

Reerun_KC
02-02-2007, 01:18 PM
He's been very entertaining..who gives a shit how many posts he's got..as long as he stopped making a zillion threads and stopped posting pics of vagina's(which he did)...he can post all he wants..it's the Hunt forum rules! :D


I have no complaints, I find him rather entertaining as well!

Miss the beaver shots though...

He can post away!

Reerun_KC
02-02-2007, 01:19 PM
I meant the "POST WHORE" in a good way for CC.....

El Jefe
02-02-2007, 01:27 PM
CrazyCoffey, I am starting a Police Academy in Ohio in Spetember to be a Police Officer. I have a question you might be able to answer I am 19 when I get done with the Academy I will have 4 months till I am 21, now I have heard you dont have to be 21 to take your State Certification Test. Now it may very state to state but I want to know what you think I should do or if my plan right now is just fine?

KChiefer
02-02-2007, 01:37 PM
the uproar would be different if the video showed them looking at her crotch area to see if they could see blood. Still be an uproar.

She said the cops could check her.

Gee, when the cops reached in my crotch to find some pot, and I pulled my crotch away, they slammed me to the ground.

So can cops reach down your pants in public or not? I guess if it suits what they want, they can do what they want.

I'm a respectful white male so I don't catch too much crap from police so I still believe most are good ppl. When I delivered pizza, I got pulled over 3 times. Only one amounted to a seatbelt ticket, and for that I'm grateful. Quotas are total BS. When I got my ticket a coworker was ticketed the same night by the same cop for going 5 mph over.

Halfcan
02-02-2007, 02:16 PM
This was on the news the other day. They showed the recording from the cops camera.

Doesn't suprise me a bit. Assholes like those two cops are more the norm than the exception. IMO

Yep cops should be held accountable for their actions.

Halfcan
02-02-2007, 02:18 PM
I am trying to make an honest attempt to slow down..... ........ really!



This place is addicting and a great way to stay in touch with the criminal element and keep my skills fresh.....:)

Yep the CP is the Meth of the Internet-lol I would guess that CP has more than its share of the Criminal Element on here.

Halfcan
02-02-2007, 02:19 PM
Just look for anything Raiders in their sig.

StcChief
02-02-2007, 02:36 PM
you have quotas in your area, that sucks. I always have disagreed with that too, was fortunate to spend the majority of my time in a quota free state. Boss says "go get to work, write some tickets" we would always respond with "are you trying to institute a quota? cause that would be illegal!"

Sorry if my sarcasim didn't reach you before on my last post, the statement you made about "no respect for any cops" upsets me some, because I personally know many good cops that do good respectable jobs. That was what I based my comment on.

Of course you are entitled to not respecting me, but I think I've done the best job I can, and don't deserve the blanket statement.

You may be the exception.

I am now very leary of the cops and their motives.

I'm not the exception to distrust them either.

I don't think they work for the good of the community, but for them selves and their own career.

Joie
02-02-2007, 03:07 PM
I am trying to make an honest attempt to slow down..... ........ really!


the quick story is just moved to MO for wife's job, was a cop in TX for 5 years (5 years active MP before that). Just got my MO peace officer certificate and looking for real employment. Job I have now is at a desk, putting out fires when they pop up, boring, stay logged on all day and get in on conversations.

This place is addicting and a great way to stay in touch with the criminal element and keep my skills fresh.....:)
I hear the KCPD is looking for a couple of cops to fill in for some that are suspended. :p

El Jefe
02-02-2007, 03:29 PM
Joie, welcome to the planet. Althogh I am no where close to a vet here you should find your stay comfortable if you follow these three rules. 1:dont talk about religion they will run you outta here. 2:Dont support Herman I made this mistake and made a lot of people mad. 3: Dont talk about George W on here I made that mistake too, I support everything about Bush, if you likewise make this association with the Bush administration get ready for some hate threads.

crazycoffey
02-02-2007, 03:32 PM
CrazyCoffey, I am starting a Police Academy in Ohio in Spetember to be a Police Officer. I have a question you might be able to answer I am 19 when I get done with the Academy I will have 4 months till I am 21, now I have heard you dont have to be 21 to take your State Certification Test. Now it may very state to state but I want to know what you think I should do or if my plan right now is just fine?


Not sure I understand completely;

are you putting yourself through the academy or are you sponsered by an agency?
My understanding is most every state requires you are 21 to be commissioned and carry a weapon for duty. Taking the test however my not be as important, the state wants to collect it's revenue and some departments may want you to be certified just to be a cadet in thier inservice training.

El Jefe
02-02-2007, 03:39 PM
Ok let me clear it up. I am going through a Police Academy which is 22-25 weeks long, I pay for it myself. Ok If I pass the Academy they will let me take my State Test to see if I can get the State Certification so I can be a cop anywhere in Ohio. I have been told by a couple Ohio Police officers you have to be 21 to have a firearm I know that but, will they allow me to take the State Test even if I wont be 21 for 4 months. I dont know if it varys from State to State but I figured I would ask you if you knew.

crazycoffey
02-02-2007, 04:20 PM
Ok let me clear it up. I am going through a Police Academy which is 22-25 weeks long, I pay for it myself. Ok If I pass the Academy they will let me take my State Test to see if I can get the State Certification so I can be a cop anywhere in Ohio. I have been told by a couple Ohio Police officers you have to be 21 to have a firearm I know that but, will they allow me to take the State Test even if I wont be 21 for 4 months. I dont know if it varys from State to State but I figured I would ask you if you knew.


I think that sounds about normal for most states, I think the states want you to pay for the test and collect thier money regardless of the age part, and the departments have to enforce the 21 years old to carry part.

In texas I was hired and they paid for my academy, in MO, they have the POST program (police officer standard testing) or something to that effect. Since I had an acadamy and work experience I was able to take the state exam without going through a Missouri acadamy. I passed with a 91 and the biggest problem I had was the MO specific laws, which I will become more familiar with when I work.

Best of luck to you, remember the public perception is low with many people, but there are also many that give you support too. My best advice is not to forget what it's like to sit on the inside of the car being stopped. Be aware of dangerous possibilities without looking or acting like a prick to the person, inside.

It is possible to act human and humble to people you interact with, without letting your guard down. I think this is a main problem with the peception issue. Many cops think the hard ass approach will help stop someone from taking advantage of a situation and doing something bad to them. Often times it just gives us all a bad name, I think if someone wants to attack you, they have their mind made up before you talk to them. I have an example,

I went to a drunk and disorderly call, someone recently released from prision was celebrating his new freedom, had to much and had people around him worried about safety, theirs and his. He didn't like that I was called, and the fact is, he was over board drunk. Easily could have been arrested for Public intoxication, no doubt in my mind.
This guy was very big, and strong, he spent 8 years of a 15 year sentance for aggrivated bank robbery (probably lifting everyday of it) This means he is a violent type guy. I didn't know that until later, but in a way, I knew it then. I could see it in his eyes. He was very close to "snapping". I didn't have back up yet, I knew they were on thier way, but they weren't there yet, I was the first responder. We went someplace a little quiter and away from the complainers, by the street where my backup would find us better. My suggestion, "Lets go over here so we can talk better, it's loud here". I let him vent some, "BS - I just been locked up so long, just wanted a drink" and so on.

so in my mind a big dude says he just got out and wanted a drink, and could be arrested for PI. I know if I do he's starting something with me, but that's not what I'm really worried about. What is the best decision, he wasn't all that rowdy, just big. The people at the bar were probably more worried about that than anything else. As we talked, he had composer, some what and responded to all my questions. He was able to reason with me some, and while doing that calm down. By the time back up was there I knew I had him controled, mentally. If I didn't I knew I had friends who could now help me control him physically. But I didn't need to, my gamble paid off and looking at the totality of the situation, I didn't think throwing him in jail for PI which would violate his parole and send him back to the Pen for at least 5 more years, was the best desicion. So I had his sister called, she lived a few blocks away, she came and took control of him.

I know several officers that would have let the fear in them control their actions, not ask enough questions and just try to arrest him. I checked in on him a few weeks later and he thanked me, never been treated like a human by a man wearing a badge before. I think that means more to society than just putting another guy back in prision.

Mecca
02-02-2007, 04:30 PM
Some random thoughts:

1. The "victim" in all this sounds like a complete piece of shit. Perhaps her bringing one less neglected and abused child into the world isn't such a bad thing.

2. If she really was bleeding, seriously, how could that be hard to miss? Unless she was wearing rubber pants, it WOULD MAKE A STAIN. I can't imagine the cops would have been so flippant with her had that been the case.

3. Were the arresting officers the same ones who kept her locked up all night? I'm thinking no. This woman had ample opportunity to state her case to other officers. If she was continuing to bleed, are we really supposed to believe that there wasn't one single cop in the station that interracted with her that didn't see that she needed medical attention? I call bullshit on that one.

4. If this is such a shit-hot wrongful death lawsuit, why is the lawyer only suing for $25,000 instead of $25,000,000?

5. Seems possible that she might have miscarried the next morning regardless of whether or not she had been in jail. What was her health like? Was she taking care of herself or the baby? Had she actually been heading to the hospital, or was her plea to go to the hospital merely a misdirection ploy to stop the cops from running her information and realizing that she was a criminal piece of crap who needed to go to jail? I wonder. And since the purpose of this jaded story is to demonize the cops, and that information wasn't included, I guess I'll never know.

6. Sounds to me like these two cops are being thrown to the PC crows over nothing. Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps this woman was indeed gushing blood that was ignored by half the KC police force. Perhaps her poor dead fetus would have grown up to be a Nobel laureate, and not a poor damaged wretch who would merely continue the cycle of abuse and despair. Yes, these things are possible.

But I'm thinking absolutely nothing of consequence happened that night, except for two bullshit-weary cops taking a dirtbag to jail.

Even if you think this woman is a piece of shit.......that doesn't excuse these cops behavior, you are suppose to be a professional.

This is a big enough story that I've seen it on pretty much every national news report this week......that should tell you what people think about it.

Frazod
02-02-2007, 05:53 PM
Even if you think this woman is a piece of shit.......that doesn't excuse these cops behavior, you are suppose to be a professional.

This is a big enough story that I've seen it on pretty much every national news report this week......that should tell you what people think about it.

Read post 75, which I hadn't noticed when I wrote my post. That pretty much confirms everything I theorized.

She got exactly what her demeanor and lies bought her. I'd like to see what your attitude towards people would be if you dealt with lying scumbags for a living.

Skip Towne
02-02-2007, 06:17 PM
Point taken. And for your information I'm not a moron for not reading "futher" (isn't irony great?); I was a moron way before that thank you very much. :p
I'm going to have to back Vailpass up on this one. He has been a moron for a long time.

|Zach|
02-02-2007, 06:35 PM
CrazyCoffey, I am starting a Police Academy in Ohio in Spetember to be a Police Officer. I have a question you might be able to answer I am 19 when I get done with the Academy I will have 4 months till I am 21, now I have heard you dont have to be 21 to take your State Certification Test. Now it may very state to state but I want to know what you think I should do or if my plan right now is just fine?
Best of luck.

Joie
02-02-2007, 06:38 PM
Joie, welcome to the planet. Althogh I am no where close to a vet here you should find your stay comfortable if you follow these three rules. 1:dont talk about religion they will run you outta here. 2:Dont support Herman I made this mistake and made a lot of people mad. 3: Dont talk about George W on here I made that mistake too, I support everything about Bush, if you likewise make this association with the Bush administration get ready for some hate threads.


Thank you for the welcome.